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Dick Pound shares his Olympic memories
114 Plays7 days ago
To reflect on the transformative summer of Montreal 1976, Canada’s History recently brought together two Canadians with thoughts to exchange. Heather Hiscox, a 43-year veteran of the broadcasting industry, spent two decades as the face of CBC Morning Live and has covered 10 Olympic Games. Richard “Dick” Pound is the longest-serving member of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). An Olympic swimmer in the 1960 Summer Games in Rome, Pound was a key member of the Canadian Olympic Association (COA) for the 1976 Summer Games and has been a defining force in the Olympic Movement for more than 40 years.
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest Introduction
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Canada's History Podcast, where we discuss the people, places, and events that have shaped this country. I'm Jacqueline Kovacs, your host and editorial director of Canada's History Magazine.
00:00:26
Speaker
Today, we're marking a significant milestone. 50 years since the 1976 Montreal Olympics. To reflect on that transformative summer, we brought together two titans, one of Canadian broadcasting and the other of international sport.
00:00:42
Speaker
First, we're joined by Heather Hiscox, a Canadian Screen Award winner and a 43-year veteran of the industry. Heather spent two decades as the face of CBC Morning Live before her recent retirement in November 2025.
00:00:57
Speaker
She has also covered 10 Olympic Games. Joining Heather is Richard Pound, the longest serving member of the International Olympic Committee. An Olympic swimmer himself in the 1960 Rome Games, Richard has been a defining force in the Olympic movement for more than 40 years.
00:01:15
Speaker
He was a key figure in the Canadian Olympic Committee during the 1976 Games and went on to serve up as founding president of the World Anti-Doping Agency.
Setting the Stage: Montreal Olympics Overview
00:01:25
Speaker
Richard, Heather, I'm going to step out of the way and let you two dive into the memories, the legacy and the what ifs of Montreal 1976.
00:01:37
Speaker
Jacqueline, thank you so very much. And I just want you to know how delighted I am to be part of this project as a former Montrealer and someone who has a keen interest in the Olympics. And Richard, hello. Hello again.
00:01:50
Speaker
Nice to be back. Well, I'm delighted to have this conversation with you. Thank you for accepting to do this interview. We've had many Olympic conversations over the years since we first met in an Athens in 2004. But I was thinking that I've never interviewed you about the 1976 Olympics.
00:02:07
Speaker
And it's possible. I'm the only person who hasn't, because you've done countless interviews on the subject, often on milestone anniversaries like this
Why Montreal?
00:02:17
Speaker
one. I thought that might be a good place to start, Richard, for the 50th.
00:02:21
Speaker
Time makes a difference. Has your perspective on Montreal's Olympic Games changed at all over the years? Well, I think that you know if you were there in 1976 as an athlete or an official or even spectator,
00:02:36
Speaker
It was a unique experience. And in the the Olympic Stadium, for all its fragility, was ah a work of art. And everybody who was there at the opening or closing ceremonies, for example, was just stunned by how effective it was.
00:02:52
Speaker
Your connection to the Montreal Olympics far predates 1976. Back in the fall of 68, we were the new secretary of the Canadian Olympic Association, which is now the Canadian Olympic Committee.
00:03:04
Speaker
So you were involved in the vote that decided which city would be Canada's candidate to host. it was between Toronto, Hamilton and Montreal. How did that play out? Well, it was very interesting because politically, the federal government was a Quebec-based liberal minority government.
00:03:24
Speaker
And the the rest of Canada, as we like to call it, sort of said, well, all right, Montreal had all its goodies for Expo 67. Now it's Toronto's turn.
00:03:35
Speaker
And the centre of the universe put together a very strong lobbying program. But all the directors were getting calls from Ottawa saying, not Montreal, it can't be Montreal.
00:03:46
Speaker
Even though Hamilton was the first host of the British Empire Games when they were established, it's beyond... Hamilton's capacity to to put on the Olympics. So you've got a choice of Montreal or Toronto.
00:03:59
Speaker
Toronto thinks it's due for some federal goodies. and there was a lot of pressure on on every single director. And our board was 36, all men at the time.
00:04:12
Speaker
And we didn't have a Canadian Olympic Association female director until a number of years later. Then as you looked at the the numbers, there were 36. There was a possibility that there could be a tie vote.
00:04:25
Speaker
So it was very tense. And ah the presentations were kind of what you would expect. Hamilton went first and you know Victor Copps, the mayor, yeah rah, rah, rah, rah.
00:04:37
Speaker
Very heartfelt, but hopeless. Toronto had the leading technical array of the day, which was flip charts and slides and stuff like that.
00:04:48
Speaker
And they they had hired Royce Frith, who eventually became a senator. And he had ah he had this voice from Central Casting doing all the announcing. And then there's Drapeau for Montreal.
00:05:00
Speaker
ah He came with a bunch of his cronies. And it was very interesting. He was the only one who spoke. And he had a very interesting pitch.
00:05:11
Speaker
He said, gentlemen, you really have two decisions you have to make today. One is, do you want the 1976 Olympic Games to come to Canada?
00:05:23
Speaker
If you don't care, then it doesn't matter for whom you vote. But if you do want them to come, you have a second question. Who can get them? And he said, I can get them.
00:05:36
Speaker
And he explained that during Expo 67, he had invited... all the members of the International Olympic Committee to come to Montreal for a week as his guest with their spouse or or some other companion.
00:05:51
Speaker
He said a very large number showed up. So they've seen what Montreal can do and they will have confidence in in our ability to manage something on a worldwide scale, like like ah a class one international exposition.
00:06:05
Speaker
So he said, if you want the Games to come to Canada, I can get them. And then we then we voted. And on the first round, I was the scrutineer because I was like the junior secretary.
00:06:17
Speaker
On the first ah round, there were two votes for Hamilton, 17 for Toronto for Montreal. and seventeen for montreal And i I see these, oh my God, Ontario is going to gang up and they're going to win.
00:06:32
Speaker
So we had the second round of votes. I had in my jacket pocket ah an envelope with the president's casting ballot in case we needed it. Second round is 18 for Montreal, 16 for Toronto.
Challenges Faced by Montreal
00:06:47
Speaker
So Montreal won against all the political opposition and and so forth. And there we were. And it's one of these things where you say, OMG, what have you just done?
00:07:03
Speaker
And another OMG moment came not too long thereafter. That was the first day. Of course, then came the full bid campaign to the IOC to land the 1976 Olympic Games. You wrote a number of years ago in a paper, Richard, that the IOC chose Montreal. This was your quote, for reasons which may never be fully understood.
00:07:26
Speaker
Well, it was mostly DREPO. And when he got to the ah the IOC c session in Amsterdam in 1970, he spoke about the reasons for Montreal. And the only other person who spoke was Lucien Solnier, who was the the financial guy.
00:07:42
Speaker
And he said, you know, we've participated in the Olympics since 1904, even before there was a Canadian Olympic ah Association. We bid for the games, mostly the winter before this. They said we bid for the summer against Munich. We lost against Munich, but we finished second.
00:08:01
Speaker
And it's also the, I think, the second largest rank upon city in the world. And so there were lots of things that that came together and in a mix at the time.
00:08:12
Speaker
And i remember there was one interesting moment where one of the IOC members said, Mr. Mayor, I'm looking through my file and we don't seem to have the financial guarantee ah from Montreal.
00:08:24
Speaker
And Drapeau said, that's just a piece of paper. What you have here in front of you today is the mayor of Montreal, who stands behind all this.
00:08:36
Speaker
And he actually had a minor standing ovation for that. And anyway, the the the human qualities overcame the geopolitics in many respects. I remember on the campaign trail, one of the things that Drapo would say when he met island sea members, said, listen, you don't have to solve the Cold War today. You don't have to pick between Moscow and Los Angeles but and on the bookends.
00:09:04
Speaker
You can vote for Montreal and offend nobody. And that resonated with a surprising number of the IOC and members at the time. And so we snuck through the middle and there we were.
00:09:18
Speaker
What was your reaction? Do you remember? excitement, first of all, because, ah you know, until the final ballots are counted, you you don't know what's going to happen. And and it' it's a secret ballot. and So it's not a a question of people you know raising their hands. It was a paper ballot at the time. So it was a welcome surprise. And again, you know, what have we just done? Now we've got now we've got to organize these things.
00:09:44
Speaker
And and that's ah that's a challenge because it's An Olympic organization, everything has to work right the first time. You can't have the winner of the 100 meters race and you go up to him and say, listen, sorry about this, but would you mind doing it again?
00:10:00
Speaker
Because our camera didn't work, you know, that sort of thing. So the built-in safeguards you have to have for an Olympic Games are just enormous. Very high stakes for so many parties.
00:10:11
Speaker
Let me ask then, as we move to the Olympic preparations, they began and from the start, the work was beset by problems, which are now well documented. Delays, cost overruns, labor strife, inflation, corruption. You weren't part of the organizing committee. But as an executive member of the Olympic Association, the Olympic Association here, you were obviously watching with interest. And I'm wondering, when did you first become concerned about how things were going?
00:10:45
Speaker
pretty Pretty well all along. I mean, because the construction was complicated and the circumstances were complicated. We had Drapeau falling in love with Thierry Verre and then and been designing this work of art, the Olympic Stadium. But it really was, in reality, only good for football or track and field.
00:11:05
Speaker
It was Drapeau's answer to the promise he made to Major League Baseball to get the the Montreal Expos. they We would have a covered stadium and because playing outdoors ah and in April and May and in Montreal is not always a cup of tea.
00:11:21
Speaker
ah So that was a concern. The organization was kept very very closely under control by DREPO. The Canadian Olympic Association it really had no meaningful role to to play in the construction and organization.
00:11:38
Speaker
ah So we concentrated on trying to raise whatever money we could to sort of inject some additional support for the Canadian team. We didn't want to be what we became, which was the only Olympic host whose team never won a gold medal.
00:11:54
Speaker
and And it took a while to live down that reputation, but we we finally solved that. So the idea was to say, all right, well, let's pick some of the possible medal winners and see what can happen to them.
00:12:07
Speaker
And we had some very good swimmers, some very good track and field folks and then good equestrians. So it was not impossible that we might win a gold medal. We certainly got lots of medals, but just the wrong color.
00:12:19
Speaker
So you're watching it and it's clear from the beginning. And I'm wondering, you know, volumes have been written on the mistakes that were made for you now. What was the biggest mistake or what were the biggest mistakes, Richard?
00:12:36
Speaker
Probably the one that was the hardest to get around. And then the IOC finally had to change the Olympic charter was you need to have an Olympic budget.
00:12:47
Speaker
and you need to have an infrastructure budget. And they're not the same. You know, the Olympic Stadium, for which we paid close to a billion dollars, was all charged against the 1976 Olympic Games.
00:12:58
Speaker
And it's still being used today. And the same is true with the the metro extensions. And a lot of the infrastructure was charged as an Olympic expense, which gave a very misleading view as to what the marginal cost of having an Olympics in your city would be.
00:13:14
Speaker
So that was sad. Because if I just jump in there, the the the dollar was 120 million in 1970. 1973, it was up to 310, I believe. And by the end, now we're talking 1.6 billion approximately is the number we commonly associate. You're saying that calculation would be different if we put them into separate buckets. Right. And then people would say, OK, this is the marginal cost of of having the Olympics. Mm hmm.
00:13:39
Speaker
Anyway, there was that. The second was that, well, Drapo was a dynamic and charismatic leader of Montreal. I mean, he was responsible for Plastisar, for the initial plan for the metro and all that sort of stuff.
00:13:52
Speaker
He was no financial genius. So the budget that he had when he... came to the COC to make the pitch, but I think it was written on the back of an envelope. Really? And the financial controls were not in place.
00:14:06
Speaker
He ran a good city, but he was no construction guy. and and He was on the construction site, though, all the time, as I recall from from the archives. And also he gave an interview in 1996 to the Gazette saying there were things he would have done differently and the controls might have been different. So even he saw it a little bit.
00:14:25
Speaker
Later on, i mean, he was a central figure or, as you've indicated, i think the central figure in this story. The Malouf Commission, which looked into the cost overruns of the Olympics in Montreal, said that he bore the greatest share of responsibility for those skyrocketing costs and for the other problems that occurred at the time. To you now, Richard, is he hero or villain? How do you view him?
00:14:52
Speaker
I think he's a hero in the sense of being a visionary and and creating a you know real metropolis in Montreal. He was no financial genius and he was not equipped really to run a multi-phase building process. But in terms of Montreal,
00:15:10
Speaker
At the opening ceremonies, he got by far the biggest applause of anybody that took part. He could still be mayor today. That's how much his reputation was. so And I think the Malouf Commission was kind of a and a gotcha hatchet job.
00:15:27
Speaker
I think it was designed to assign that blame. And some of it is certainly merited, no question about it. But in in the bigger picture, the Olympic picture, he could walk on the water.
Impact of 1976 Olympics on Security & Performance
00:15:38
Speaker
Well, one of the reasons for those high costs had nothing to do with Jean Trepeau, and that was the money that went for security. Montreal's were the first Olympic Games since Munich in 1972, where we remember 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team were kidnapped and killed by the terrorist group Black September. So how did Munich change security for Montreal, Richard?
00:16:06
Speaker
Well, a good question, because, you know, up until Munich, Olympic security was to keep the locals from bothering the athletes and perhaps more viscerally to keep the boys out of the girls section of the Olympic village.
00:16:21
Speaker
it was it It wasn't really muscular security that you needed. All of a sudden, that whole paradigm changed. The security apparatus in in Montreal involved all of the Quebec police forces, the Canadian armed forces,
00:16:35
Speaker
unusual collaboration with foreign governments to sort of identify threats and bad guys. and And that was carried off very well. It didn't interfere with anybody's enjoyment of the games, but it was nevertheless very muscular security for the first time ever. And that was really been the turning point, wasn't it, for what we now see, that highly visible militarized security apparatus at Olympic Games?
00:17:03
Speaker
Jumping to July 17th of 1976, Queen Elizabeth is there. Prime Minister Trudeau is there. 73,000 people are there in a stadium which was not even finished. And Richard Pound was there. Tell me about walking in and that moment as you remember it now.
00:17:26
Speaker
Well, oddly enough, it was my first time in the stadium. You don't need a tax lawyer to tell you how to build an Olympic stadium. But it was it it was, first of all, there was a little concern because separatism was working its way to the first separatist government late in 1976. So it was we're on the cusp of that issue.
00:17:48
Speaker
The Queen was very popular, lots of cheering and applause, but the the one who won the gold medal at the opening ceremony was Drapo. He got a standing ovation from the entire crowd.
00:18:00
Speaker
The Olympic opening ceremony was always very moving. The Olympic march is a joke. It's really a shambles. you you You would think that people who you work in thousands of seconds and grams and millimeters between glory and less than glory, they all look like they couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.
00:18:22
Speaker
But a couple of things. It went off very well. and And secondly, the music during the opening ceremonies is the best I've ever heard. Vic Vogel, I believe. Vic Vogel. It was Andre Mathieu, I think, in his music. I don't know who performed it, but people were just delighted with it. So that was good. And the closing ceremony was we had the famous streaker.
00:18:43
Speaker
And I remember the the Duke of Edinburgh who was just howling with laughter. as This fellow tiptoed through the tulips ah unadorned. The days that followed, Richard saw many incredible athletic performances. For most people though, the highlight came down to one name and one number, Nadia Comaneci and 10. Were you there by any chance when she recorded the first ever perfect score, the 10 in gymnastics history?
00:19:17
Speaker
Certainly in Olympic gymnastics history, I think she maybe had a 10 or so in Europe. But yes, I was there for sure. And there'd been a long harangue between the organizing committee and the FIG, the International Gymnastics Federation.
00:19:33
Speaker
about the score. And we said, look, it's easy to add an extra digit on the on the electronic scoring system. So no, we never give a 10 Olympics because if we give a 10, it implies that perfection has been obtained and nothing better will follow, which is complete nonsense if you know anything about sport.
00:19:52
Speaker
They may say, no no, no, we never give tens. You may not have the extra digit on the scoring system. and Okay, well, the need the International Federation's governed the sport, so there it was.
00:20:02
Speaker
So anyway, the perfect mark comes up as 1.00. point zero zero And it means the organizing committee look like idiots, but the backstory was it was the FIG that insisted that they would never give a ten.
00:20:21
Speaker
But it was interesting because she was, ah i guess, the second iteration of gymnastics after Olga Korbut, who was the darling and in Munich, and Nadia was the the darling in Montreal, changed women's gymnastics from ah a sport for women to a sport for little elephants under five feet who could do triples and God knows what on the balance beam and the rings and uneven parallel bars. She was just magnificent.
00:20:49
Speaker
The 1976 Olympics were actually the first games of which I have a clear memory. i was 11 at the time, Richard, and the highlight for me wasn't, in fact, Nadia Comaneci. It was Greg Joy, the high jumper, winning silver on the final day, final full day, I guess, of competition. Were you there to experience that moment?
00:21:09
Speaker
Oh, yes. We knew ah he was jumping well in you know in the training and so on. So it would have been surprising if he didn't get a medal. And it was awful close, but it was a ah very exciting day for everybody in the stadium.
00:21:23
Speaker
It was the silver, though, that felt like a gold, didn't it? Because Canada didn't win a gold and that was the first time the host nation hadn't won a a gold medal in a home games.
00:21:33
Speaker
What impact did that have? What what was the significance of that? It's a statistical anomaly. I mean, that's what it is. I mean, the tolerances and in Olympic events now are are just so minute that you can be first or sixth. and And I mean, the race I was in, all eight swimmers in the final finished within one second been in Munich. I remember.
00:21:59
Speaker
the The darling of the meet was Mark Spitz. And the one in in the world who came the closest to him was Bruce Robertson of Canada in the 100-meter butterfly. And he was like two tenths of a second behind Mark Spitz.
00:22:12
Speaker
in In the high jump, it's strategic. In the order in which you clear heights can have an impact on the scoring as opposed to the the the final result alone.
Doping Controversies & Anti-Doping Legacy
00:22:21
Speaker
But it was very exciting. The games, in a sense, ended on a high for Canada.
00:22:27
Speaker
There's one other sport I'd like to talk to you about for entirely different reasons, and that is swimming. East Germany did not win a single gold swimming medal 1972. And in just four years later, the East german women gold medals.
00:22:48
Speaker
What did you think, Richard, when you saw them physically and then saw what they were doing in the pool? Well, physically, and particularly women, they looked like they'd been carved out of granite. They were just cut.
00:23:01
Speaker
And the performance in the pool certainly lived up to that promise. i remember the the year before, there was a swimming meet in Montreal, and Cornelia Ender, who did freestyle, came to it. And I could stand behind her, and you couldn't see me Really?
00:23:18
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of Canadians got done out of metals because of that. And it was clear that there's doping going on. and We all knew. You know, all, you couldn't get into East Germany to test.
00:23:32
Speaker
And Warsaw Pact countries, they had, it there was a ship in in the harbour in in Montreal that had a couple of laboratories on it. And they would take their athletes the day before the event, test them to see whether they would be testing positive or not.
00:23:47
Speaker
And if they were, they suddenly got sick or there was an injury and they were withdrawn. So there was never an East German positive test in competition because they simply were not allowed by their team administration to participate and take a chance that they would be tested positive.
00:24:05
Speaker
It was a shame, but they weren't the only ones that were doping. And that's that sometimes you sort of overlook in the headlines, you overlook the fact that there was a real doping problem in sport. And that eventually led to the ah creation of the World Anti-Doping Agency.
00:24:19
Speaker
What was the impact on you? Because I'm wondering, let me just explain that question. You became, as you mentioned, WADA, the founding president of WADA. You became known as one of the fiercest critics of Athletes Who Dope. How did the Montreal experience frame your outlook and maybe become a catalyst for that fight?
00:24:42
Speaker
Well, and certainly the outcomes justified the suspicion. Statistically, that would not have happened had there not been doping. And that was unfortunate for a lot of Canadian swimmers. And i know in North American and Australian as well.
00:24:57
Speaker
But getting sport to change is a very difficult thing. It's a change-resistant industry, if you like. And the you often think that the two principal objectives are to keep the current leadership in position.
00:25:12
Speaker
The second is to increase performance and ah we don't really want to know how you achieved it. So it took a long time to build up enough momentum to call for ah the creation of ah of an independent agency. And it wasn't really until the Tour de France in 1998.
00:25:34
Speaker
that the penny finally dropped. And i remember we, the IOC executive board met, say, what are we going to do about this? And because I had had a fair amount of sort of legal type of experience, I said, look, we need an independent international agency.
00:25:48
Speaker
that can step in and supervise ah the doping and so forth. So we ran that up the flagpole and it got pretty good reception. So we called for a world conference on doping and sport in Lausanne in 1999.
00:26:04
Speaker
Unfortunately, it was during the the Salt Lake City bidding scandal. So if ah people had 15 minutes to speak, the the first five minutes were spent excoriating the IOC. as the root of all evil. And then they would get on to the issue. But we eventually got a 50-50 agreement between the sport world and the political world to form what we call the World Anti-Doping Agency at the time, and then gradually worked our way into giving it the necessary budget and powers to do what had to be done.
00:26:37
Speaker
We have a very good system in place. the the The problem in sport, of course, is not the system, it's the people.
Legacy of the Montreal Olympics & Conclusion
00:26:44
Speaker
In what ways do you think the Montreal Olympics shaped you and your future, Richard?
00:26:53
Speaker
Good question. I was probably in the right place at the right time. i was in Montreal, which was our only Olympic city. I had been secretary of the COA for eight or nine years at this point.
00:27:08
Speaker
The existing president was James Worrell, a transplanted Montrealer, and he was also the IOC member at the time.
00:27:18
Speaker
And he said, I run a small law firm. i can't do both jobs. I will not run for a reelection next year. And that that the stars and the planets lined up pretty well because it gave COA a chance to reward its longtime secretary, Howard Radford, with a one year term.
00:27:37
Speaker
And then the next president was Harold Wright from Vancouver. And so he had served two four year terms. And there I was, an athlete who had been an Olympian and all that sort of stuff.
00:27:50
Speaker
And so I got elected as as president. And then the very next year, I got co-opted as a member of the IOC. So Canada had two members for a while. And ah it just went from there and it in very short order under Samaranch.
00:28:06
Speaker
He said, listen, I'm naming you the chairman of the Television Negotiations Committee. And I said, I don't know anything about television or television negotiations. He said, none of us do, but it's going to be our...
00:28:18
Speaker
principal source of revenues. We've got to figure it out. You're a lawyer, you're an accountant, you're in the North American Eastern time zone where all the big television companies had their headquarters, you're it.
00:28:31
Speaker
What about for the country? What did Montreal change for Canada? And as part B of that, what were the lessons of the 1976 Olympics for the IOC and the Olympic movement?
00:28:46
Speaker
Well, for Montreal, it was certainly a game changer on the sport frontier. I mean, we had Plastézard, we had the Met, we had all sorts of things. It was really a metropolis. And it showed that we could play on that world stage, both in terms of organization and on the field of play.
00:29:05
Speaker
I must say, for years after the Montreal Games, other Olympic folks with whom i interacted and met congratulated us on the the quality of the games, the sports, the finances were a different issue. but But in terms of the sports organization, it was spectacular and became the goalpost for everybody else.
00:29:25
Speaker
For the country, it gave us a foothold in the summer sports. yeah We're always good in the winter sports, but had never had a chance to really show how good we were becoming in the summer games.
00:29:37
Speaker
I think it's an important point to come back to just in terms of impact for the IOC, for the Olympic movement. What were the lessons learned for them from Montreal?
00:29:49
Speaker
I would say two in particular. One is to have an Olympic budget and an infrastructure budget so that the population is not deceived as to what the the cost is. The second is that we can actually do these things. We are competitive on a world scale and and we should prepare to live with that reality.
00:30:07
Speaker
I'd say we have probably the best organized Games mission staff on the face of the planet. We actually help the organizing committees make the Olympic Village better because of our experience in organizing well-supported team.
00:30:24
Speaker
Richard, thank you very much. I've always appreciated the opportunities that you have given me to answer my questions. And I've always appreciated your insight and candor. Today is no exception. Thank you very much. well Thank you for for doing this and making it possible.
00:30:41
Speaker
You're welcome. And Jackie, I pass things back to you. Heather, Richard, thank you both for that incredible walkthrough history. It's rare to hear such personal and expert perspectives on a moment that truly changed the landscape of Canadian sport.
00:30:59
Speaker
To our listeners, thank you for joining us for this special 50th anniversary conversation. We'll see you next time on Canada's History Podcast. Canada's History Podcast is produced by Canada's History Society with assistance from Kate Cochran.
00:31:16
Speaker
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00:31:34
Speaker
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00:31:50
Speaker
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