Transcript
Speaker: We start this week with grave news. Due to the diligence of our research staff, we have uncovered the existence of one of the foremost conspirators of the land. Yes, an old Sunday we've discovered that won Daniel Wilson. If that is his, her or their real name.
Speaker: indeed has been seeking to kovuli influence this very podcast via what can only be called bribery. By giving us money with a suggestive wink and an odd handshake, Daniel has tried to buy his way into our good graces. And it's worked. The knot and the wink were largely metaphorical.
Speaker: But Daniel is giving us money, and along with our low low standards, that means he basically controls us and this podcast. And what control it is? With access to secret rural technology and the real steel dossier, Daniel is the number one reason we can't talk about Donald J. Trump at the moment.
Speaker: Yes, he's the reason we can't talk about him, and no one else entirely. Yes, although this photo we have of him peeling around with Robert Muller on the Mar -a -Lago golf course is… Totally irrelevant to today's topic, which is all about Nazis. And not golf. Not yet, anyway. Roll the theme.
Speaker: The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Addison and Dr. Indentive.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. I am Josh Addison, and sitting next to me looking rather worse for wear is Dr. M. Denteth. Yes, it turns out you go around punching Nazis and sometimes they punch back. Although in this particular case, now it's probably worth pointing out to our podcast listeners who, unlike our podcast listener viewers, cannot see that Dr. Denteth is sporting a rather glorious shiner and indeed some slightly scuffed up knuckles.
Speaker: It's true. There was a very fascist bit of pavement on my daily run, and it showed me what for. I went one way. A few stitches there. Oh, yes. Four stitches in the eyebrow? Four stitches, in part because they can't really use those butterfly things on eyebrows because they move around too much. Right. So, yes, I have to happen. You're just too animated in your facial expression. It's true. New Zealanders are famous for being very, very animated all the time, and also being really bad at being sarcastic.
Speaker: So anyway, that's the excuse for the Shiner. Have we anything else to talk about before we... No apart from Thank You Daniel for becoming one of our illustrious patrons who gets a shout out on the podcast. We really appreciate the fact that you're on board with the things we'll be doing behind the scenes and you'll be finding out more about that with our exclusive patron content which you too could access if you gave us just a dollar a month or more.
Speaker: Basically. Now, we had the news episode last week which interrupted our theme of dodgy pseudoscience, although we only really had Soviets and Nazis. Do we have anything else? Well, I mean, we can go back to the Soviets. There's more than one dodgy pseudoscience in communist Russia. Indeed. But anyway, but today it's the turn of the Nazis, those wacky scamps. Yes, because they have so few opportunities in this modern world. Yes, yes.
Speaker: So, nothing else to say, I guess we should just get straight into the Nazis. Yes, let's get into Nazism, but let's not get into Nazism in that way. No.
Speaker: Yes, wacky noise. That was a good cork noise. I'm good at my cork noises. No, that was something that the podcasters can enjoy as well as the video watchers. Yeah, so we're talking about Nazis and specifically Nazi pseudoscience. You'll be surprised to learn that some of the things the Nazis believed in weren't actually on the level. It's true. It's true. It might call complete bollocks.
Speaker: It is quite shocking when you consider how the Nazis have been remembered by history. Yes. That it turns out they believed an awful lot of nonsense. Which works for us though, because we now get to talk about it. And much like the Lysenkoism before, I think we'll see that there's a fair bit of science as propaganda.
Speaker: Which if not a hundred percent conspiratorial at least there's the element of perhaps that some people knowing that actually maybe we are talking a lot of bollocks but it's the kind of bollocks that supports our politics. Well yes and actually one of the things we'll be talking about which is the role of occult knowledge in Nazism. It's fairly clear there were divides in the Nazi party itself as to whether this was complete nonsense no one should spend money on
Speaker: those who believed it wholeheartedly and those who went it is complete nonsense and yet the same time kind of serves a political purpose so ostensibly we'll say we believe in it even though privately we're going oh Himmler what are you doing? What was he what wasn't he doing quite frankly? Not being controlled by Ellis de Crowley despite what the great beast may have believed. So I mean we're to start we've
Speaker: We've talked about eugenics before. We have to start with the Holocaust. Yes we do. Nazi race science or Nazi pseudo race or pseudo science kind of is the thing they're really really it's kind of their brand it's what they're known for.
Speaker: So, I mean, we talked, it was a while ago now, episode 122, I believe, we talked about eugenics and conspiracy theories around sort of social engineering and what have you. And basically the thing about eugenics that you kind of need to remember is that everyone was into it for a while. The Nazis were really, really into it. Yeah, the Nazis came along and actually showed everyone what the logical conclusion of that sort of thing is. And everybody else sort of went, oh, yeah.
Speaker: Now for those of you who for some reason don't know what the Holocaust was or what eugenics is, eugenics is a kind of a genetic template for breathing a better human being using genetics to improve the lot through either forced breathing, sterilization,
Speaker: arranged marriages and the like and in the early 20th century it was a fairly popular idea that we could breed problems out of the human race whether that were disabilities on one hand or being prone to disease on another hand
Speaker: through eugenics. And people, we know they formed societies, they were quite keen on the idea. More than one nation state had pro -eugenic policies in their healthcare systems. But then the Nazis came along with their very, very, very special and attentive view on the Jewish people.
Speaker: Yes, or in general, there are a whole lot of people who got it in the neck. Eugenics sounds like a nice idea when you're talking about making the human race at large stronger and less prone to disease and so on, but when you start
Speaker: When you start coming from a position where certain races are inherently superior to other races and then suddenly genetics becomes about essentially eradicating certain races and breeding out or breeding in rather other ones,
Speaker: Things tend to get dodgy very quickly. One of the things we did point out back when we first talked about it, the woman who founded Planned Parenthood in America was a eugenicist. And so in that case it was kind of... As was the person who founded the Plunkett Society in this country. So it was kind of about...
Speaker: It was a very it was sort of a sort of nice in in quote marks eugenics. It was the sort of non -coercive look hey we have poor people perhaps having babies that they have trouble affording to care for so maybe if we made it really easy to easy access to say contraception then there wouldn't be so many unplanned pregnancies and not so many of those those inconvenient poor people
Speaker: which already is starting to sound a little bit dodgy. And herein lies the big problem with eugenics. Eugenics is based upon there being desirable characteristics you either want to keep, or undesirable characteristics you want to get rid of. And what counts as desirable or undesirable is not a biological category, it's a social construction.
Speaker: So eugenics is in theory about breeding the better biological organism using decisions based upon the society in which you live. And if you're a German of a particular stripe at a particular point in time,
Speaker: not being Jewish, but being Aryan is really important. So you want to breed those characteristics which are Jewish out of the population. Now that's not biology, that's really bad applied sociology.
Speaker: But yeah, we've talked about eugenics before. It led to the Holocaust. It's very depressing. So maybe we don't like it. We don't want to ruffle too many feathers. But here at the podcast, as I go into the conspiracy, we are unequivocally against Naziism and the Holocaust and eugenics. But we can possibly have a little more fun if we start talking about the more wacky sort of occult -y, science -y stuff.
Speaker: Now, I should point out there are going to be certain listeners to this podcast and certain people in general who are going to go, oh, this occult stuff about the Nazis. It's really, really overstated because there has been a kind of tendency in recent work on Nazism to really focus on weird beliefs they had with regard to drugs and also with regard to the occult.
Speaker: And he'll go, oh, people just try to explain everything about Nazism on Himmler's weird beliefs about X or Y. Now, it is true. A lot of people probably put too much focus on the occult beliefs of the Nazis. But the thing is, some of these people really did believe these things. And some of these theories are really quite fascinating examples of pseudosciences, which do tie into our particular topic about talking about conspiracy.
Speaker: So perhaps we should start. There were the sort of underlying tenets of the Nazi archaeological slash occulty project. We'll see that there was quite a big project to try and find, to sort of go back through archaeological evidence and sort of try and
Speaker: build up a history of the German, of the Aryan race to show that throughout human history, the Aryans were sort of a superior people or that present day, present day being World War II era Germany, present day Germans could be shown to be descended from superior lines of people in the past.
Speaker: And this kind of thinking still goes on today. So one of the big things about the alt -right and the way they talk about ancient Rome and ancient Greece as being monocultures of white people being dominant in their particular regions is a case of recasting history to say there's continuity between now and the ancestors we're really, really impressed by.
Speaker: because there are people in the alt -right who go in there. There were no dark -skinned Romans. There were no proper African Greeks. It's a case of, well, actually there were. It's just that in the 20th century, there was an attempt to recast history to give continuity from the ancient period to now. And a lot of that stuff is still in the history books because it wasn't quite questioned at the right time.
Speaker: In looking for this evidence, they were sort of applying a bunch of principles, I guess, that guided everything. There's quite a good article on Wikipedia about Nazi archaeology in this, and they go through these tenets. So they talk about culture circles, Kultur Christ, I guess, which is the theory that
Speaker: Basically, when you look at a region on the map, if you want to say sort of what ethnicity that region is, or sort of what basically what they say is, if you find archaeological evidence that certain people used to live here, then
Speaker: that's who that region belongs to and essentially that this sort of becomes political because if they can say Germanic people used to live in this part of Poland in this part of Ukraine and so on then we can say well that's that's rightfully German land so we're justified in taking it over. And of course that continues to this day with people who claim that say
Speaker: ancient Celtic peoples came to this place, or that the Knights Templar were the first people to properly explore North America. That's part of making a claim of, oh,
Speaker: They were there first, or they did the important work first. Ipso facto, it must be their land. Next is the social diffusion theory, which is the theory that cultural diffusion is basically a nice process.
Speaker: characteristics or technologies or whatever, parts of cultures are sort of disseminated amongst others through a process of just sort of influence and more advanced people just sort of rubbing off on the less advanced people, which allows them to say essentially that
Speaker: the Germanic people in the past, they did everything the nice way. They weren't like those old Romans or those barbarous French or the Goths or whatever running round, destroying other people's cultures to assert their superiority. The Germanic people were just, you know, naturally superior all along and their influence on the world around them can be seen as one of, as sort of a positive reinforcement. The idea that a German walks into a Gaulish village and the Gauls go, oh,
Speaker: That German's pretty hip and cool. We want to be like that and suddenly that gall is village is Berlin 2 .0. Another theory was the idea of worldview sciences. Shall I have a try at this one? I think Wissenschaft is science, I know that much. Anyway, worldview sciences, which
Speaker: gives the idea that culture and science are intertwined. So it kind of rejects the idea of there being some sort of objective truth that's the same for everyone that science is sort of trying to find. It's more about the idea that cultural models such as saga stories and legends should be not only reincorporated into mainstream culture,
Speaker: But the guiding principle in Germany must be to emphasize the high cultural level and the cultural self -sufficiency of the Germanic people, according to my notes here. So for one thing, it's the justification or possibly the motivation for getting into these older symbols, the sort of the runic stylings of the ECS symbol, the swastika itself, which of course is a symbol that had been around for a very long time before the Nazis appropriated it.
Speaker: And then we get the pure German man, the theory of the pure German man, which kind of raises eyebrows straight away from our perspective. Although not that eyebrow. No, you keep that one as it is. Possibly we should also point out you've a cracked rib or two there as well. I do, yeah. So if we find you clamming up at some time, it's possibly because you've
Speaker: or I start clutching my breast. It's not for the usual reason. It's because of pain. No, normally I clutch it because it's quite like touching. Yeah, and who wouldn't really? But yeah, so this is another sort of idea specific to the Germans, to the Aryan people. The idea is that the Aryan race is a pure race that has survived from prehistoric times and starts getting into more, oh it's dodgy enough already, but more
Speaker: silly, quite frankly, theories, as we'll see in a minute, when it gets to the idea that the Aryan race is descended from races that have been around for a very long time that survived a past cataclysm, possibly the destruction of Atlantis, possibly something else. I prefer Lemuria myself. Indeed, something like that. I'm a non -traditionalist when it comes to pocketing.
Speaker: floods and destructions of non -existent continents And so has therefore been around for a very very long time Which allows them to go back as we will see and look at older older cultures and say oh look So you can see there's a Germanic influence in the air this this very old culture that appears to have absolutely nothing to do with modern -day Germans you can see because because they're coming from the idea that this This this line of ancestry lineage. That's kind of a word, isn't it? That means ancestry Has been rough so long therefore it will show its signs later on
Speaker: Now of course it's important to note that all of this stuff when it was being promoted by the Nazis in the 30s and 40s was also associated with a claim of conspiracy because mainstream academic work both in Germany and outside of Germany denied most of this.
Speaker: And so the Nazi response was, oh, that is a conspiracy by the liberals, essentially, to hide the truth. They're presenting fake news, the real history of the world, the real history of the German people and the destiny of the German people.
Speaker: is tied up in all of these particular theories so people knew in the party that academics kind of disagreed but they went well you know that's that academics for you and you'll be aware if you're savvy about things on the internet there's been a lot of talk recently about how there was an institute in Berlin which basically studied transgender people
Speaker: and the Nazis basically tore it down and burnt all of the literature in it because the Nazis had a particular view on LBGTQI issues. They were then justified by reference to these pseudoscientific beliefs and the easiest way to promote those beliefs was to remove evidence of other beliefs and also the history of those beliefs over time.
Speaker: And that brings us to the Anneniebe, the shortened name of the, I might need to run up for this, but the Deutsches Anneniebe Studien Gesellschaft für Geister Geschichte. Or is he saying
Speaker: the society for the study of the history of primeval ideas. Yes, now, the Arna Niebuh is basically where a lot of the Nazi occult stuff we see in fiction comes from. You know, you're Indiana Jones. If you've played the Uncharted series of video games, the Arna Niebuh gets name -dropped in particular in one of them.
Speaker: This is partly because of it getting confused with the Tool Society, which I'm sure we've talked about in the past. We've mentioned it, but never actually gone into it in any particular decade. That was particularly a cult, wasn't it? It was, yes, although it predates on that since by several decades. But anyway, the irony about what it actually was, was basically the institute that was
Speaker: that was designed to come up with evidence to prove these theories, these principles that we were just talking about before. And those principles were espoused and, ooh, one life has already gone out, espoused and promoted by Heinrich Himmler. Oh, Himmler. And Himmler basically is kind of the zeitgeist, it's an appropriate German word here, for a quartic studies under Nazis, because zeitgeist means that.
Speaker: It'll do. Yeah, it'll do. Because he was really... I'm now doing an okay symbol. It's entirely by accident. He was really, really into these particular beliefs. He was into lots of beliefs. And there was a kind of theory that maybe he was given this institute as a way of kind of pushing them into one side and making sure he didn't keep going on about this to people like Afura.
Speaker: He believed all sorts of stuff about being the reincarnation of a night of the round table or something. He practically held what were essentially lapping sessions, didn't he, with various people who were dressed up as night. He did a bunch
Speaker: I was about to make the comparison. He's the Vin Diesel of his age. But that's a really horrible thing to associate Vin Diesel with. Vin Diesel famously is an avid AD &D player who got to Judi Dench to play an AD &D game when they were doing the Chronicles of Riddick. And frankly, that is one of the best stories an actor can ever produce. Indeed.
Speaker: No, so in 1935, so it was pre the outbreak of World War Two, the Anunnabu was set up under Hitler, and they started going out looking for prehistoric evidence of the superiority of the Aryan race, or at least the of the ancestors of the current Aryan race. And they went on a whole bunch of archaeological expeditions. So this is where I think you get the idea of Nazis, you know, digging in the desert for not actually the Ark of the Covenant, but... This pair of destiny.
Speaker: And so they went all over the world looking for evidence to basically prove... And they really went all over the world. They went to India to try and find Agatha. They went to the Netherlands, they went to Tibet, they went all over the damn place and basically
Speaker: I mean, you know, looking back on it now, we can see there's a fair bit of case of making the evidence for the conclusion. So any time in sort of instances where you have a race which historically sort of did well for itself one way or another, they would then say, oh, and that race can be shown to be an Aryan ancestor. So there's a bunch of stuff about how the Romans were actually, Rome was founded by modern people with secret Germans.
Speaker: And then the other way around, if you had a race which was known to be an ancestor of the present day Aryans, then they would show these people actually possessed advanced technologies and so on. So there was sort of off to Iceland looking at documents or carvings and so on, which supposedly showed advanced technologies.
Speaker: And of course, if you found a supposedly German area which wasn't quite up to the standards of what the Nazis wanted Germans to be, then you could blame an influx of foreigners into the region for diluting the German spirit. Yep.
Speaker: So yeah, they went all over the place. They were interviewing pagan witches and druids in Finland or something like that. They were checking out runes and petroglyphs and ancient sites and all sorts of stuff. Coming up with this, the evidence that they claimed backed up their theories. Shall we talk about the world ice theory? Why not? I think we need to talk about the world ice theory. This one,
Speaker: In looking about Nazi pseudoscience stuff, this one's come up a bit. I'm not 100 % sure how central it was to these sorts of theories and whether it gets more pressed because it's the wackier end of theories or whether it was a central thing. But the world ice theory was sort of a cosmological theory that an Austrian engineer came up with, which basically said that space is full of ice. Yeah.
Speaker: filled with ice orbiting around our sun. That the solar system was formed by the sun colliding with another star that was full of water or something and so that after the formation of all the planets we were left with these big chunks of ice all over the place in space. And every so often the ice would rain down on Earth and that was responsible for the various cataclysms which had shaped human history.
Speaker: And so this is where the idea that possibly Atlantis and its destruction was one of these cataclysms and the idea that these Nordic ancestor races were presumably due to their advanced knowledge and superior technology and so on, able to survive this cataclysm and survive into the present day as the ancestors of the Germanic people. Yeah. So you heard it here first. Aereans came from Atlantis.
Speaker: and survived plagues of icy storms. So, I mean, we could spend a long time pointing at this stuff and laughing. We could spend a long time pointing at Himmler and laughing because he was just a wacky, wacky guy. The fate of Himmler itself is quite fascinating. Himmler goes to Scotland on a plane to negotiate some kind of peace deal.
Speaker: and gets arrested as soon as he arrives. Aleister Crowley claims he cast a spell that summoned Himmler to Scotland. And it's one of those situations where Himmler was really into the occult. Crowley was into the occult. What's the more ridiculous story here?
Speaker: I think the solar system being full of chunks of ice running down on us might be more ridiculous. You can have more than... You can have complementary, ridiculous theories. Well, yes, no, that is true. That is true. But so, I mean, we can point and laugh and say, you know, some of this is just flat out silly. Some of this is, or most of this is clearly bad science. It's starting from a conclusion and trying to make the evidence fit it. But unfortunately, even the wacky stuff
Speaker: was bolstering the sort of Nazi race sciences that he ended up ultimately in the Holocaust. Yeah, and no matter what you think of the pseudoscience the Nazis were chasing under Himmler, the actual symbology and ideology of this was kind of encapsulated in things like the SS ruins, the death mask for the officer's hat.
Speaker: The notion of setting up a kind of camaraderie amongst German officers was all informed by the pseudoscience to create a cult of personality under national socialism, which made it much easier for the Nazis, arguably, to exert control within their borders.
Speaker: Now, I mean, there was one example. Himmler himself apparently claimed that some of the bog people, the sort of dead bodies that were found preserved in peat bogs around England and Europe, which at least some of them, the ones that I'm aware of, had appeared to have been ritualistically killed and dumped in the bogs. And Himmler claimed that these people had been killed for being homosexuals.
Speaker: and then used that claim to say that there was therefore this ancient tradition of societies seeking to eradicate homosexuality, therefore it's good for us to be doing it right now. He also wanted to basically Arianise occupied territories, once World War II was in full swing and the Nazis were occupying territories, so what we talked about were four territories which they reckoned archaeology proved were actually Germanic territories,
Speaker: The idea was that they would boot out the people who are currently living there and then bring in good German stock to repopulate the area. Something which the USSR ended up doing as well. Whenever they took over an area, they would flood the area with Russian immigrants on the notion that you just slowly replace the people there.
Speaker: because those places were Russian to begin with. So you weren't invading, you were simply repopulating. So I mean, they never really got into this project too far. Apparently there was one instance of this plan being put into practice in 1942. Apparently over 10 ,000 people were deported from Ukraine.
Speaker: and before trains of ethnic Germans were brought in. And, of course, the other thing, though, is the Anenerbe was a, you know, a quote -unquote scientific institute that was sort of more into archaeology and that sort of stuff. But eventually it did kind of get folded into the Institute for Military Scientific Research. Let's have a go. Wir Wissenschaftlicher zwieck vorschung.
Speaker: And there was the Institute that was going around conducting human experimentation on concentration camp victims. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it starts silly, but it gets nasty pretty very quickly. Which is, I better say, unfortunately, the story of Nazism, but using the word unfortunate there seems like an unfortunate choice of words. It's the consequence of these fascist ideals where
Speaker: politics is driving the science. Yeah, so exactly as we saw with Lysenkoism, science kind of becomes a tool of propaganda. You start with the conclusions that are politically convenient to you and then use science to try and back up those theories. And then you cover up the fact that the theories are not backed by the evidence by claiming that the people who make those claims are in fact purveyors of fake news. Which is a conspiracy, so we're allowed to be talking about all of this on this podcast.
Speaker: and we have. So yeah I mean really maybe one time we do need to go back and just have an episode entitled Himmler was a wacky maniac and just look at all the bizarre things he believed in but I now having established a conspiracy angle maybe we can justify it. Yes we can we can do our our ported history of Heinrich Himmler.
Speaker: So, when you watch Indiana Jones and see Nazis hunting for supernatural superweapons that will win the war from them, you can now chuckle to yourself and say, ha ha ha. Some of them actually did. Yeah. And when they didn't, they were just trying to prove the superiority of the Aryan race. Yeah.
Speaker: and thank God that they were stopped. Although, for some reason, they're now back. Well, yes, yes. I mean, you'd see this stuff and you think of your Stephen Molly news and what have you, trying to take a quote unquote scientific approach to - Yeah, which is why I kept on mentioning that a lot of these views are still around and people are putting them forward and they kind of owe themselves to the Nazis in the same way that if you talk about the threat of cultural Marxism,
Speaker: You are talking about the Nazi idea of cultural Bolshevism. It was invented by the Nazis to blame a particular class of person for all that's wrong in your society. So I think that brings us to the end of this episode. But only for people who aren't patrons. Indeed. So apart from reiterating once again that, look, we don't care what you think about it. We're just going to stand up and say our truth, which is that the Nazis were bad. Hitler?
Speaker: Hitler was bad. He was a badder. He was a really bad. Actually, I think he might be the worst of all the badderns. So no, we don't care. We'll say anything to us, quite frankly. Holocaust? Bad idea. Totally against it. In fact, so bad, we would never support it. But you could support us. That's a segue that works.
Speaker: By piggybacking on the fact that we condemn the Holocaust, you too can show you condemn the Holocaust by giving us a dollar a month. That sounds like a terrible way of getting money out of people. It does a little bit, yeah. But it's done now, so it can't be helped again.
Speaker: I mean, we can't edit this thing, can we? No, obviously not. So if you were to become a patron, you would become privy to the bonus content that we record after every episode. So this week we have a doozy. I'm looking through the list. There's just all sorts of stuff. Oh yeah, we've got QAnon stuff. I mean, we've got a great QAnon story. We've got a claim that Tonga lost the internet due to sabotage.
Speaker: an update on the whole whale oil cam Slater affair, and apparently an Australian energy company has been trying to stifle researchers.
Speaker: Sounds dodgy, but if you want to know more, you'll need to become a patron. And if you are a patron, then you'll learn more very shortly. Unless for some reason you listen to the update before you listen to the episode, which you might, we don't want to tell you how to live your life, but still, this is going to sound a bit weird. So we better stop, I suppose, and simply end the episode in our usual fashion by saying goodbye.
Speaker: you
Speaker: You've been listening to the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy, starring Josh Addison and Dr. M .R. Extended, which is written, researched, recorded and produced by Josh and Em. You can support the podcast by becoming a patron via its Podbean or Patreon campaigns. And if you need to get in contact with either Josh or Em, you can email them at podcastconspiracyatgmail .com or check their Twitter accounts, Mikey Fluids and Conspiracism.
Speaker: And remember, it's just a step to the left.
