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018 Moore & Giles sustainable leather
76 Plays5 years ago
GUEST / BEVERLY MCAULEY , DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION & SUSTAINABILITY FOR MOORE & GILES LEATHER
HOSt / MATT MORLEY
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 18
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to episode 18 of the Green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we take a deep dive into the world of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality. I'm your host, Matt Morley, coming to you from the world of wellness, real estate and interiors. This time I am chatting with Beverly Macaulay, Director of Education and Sustainability
00:00:46
Speaker
for Moore & Giles leather in the USA, a leading proponent of high-quality, sustainable leather.
Sustainable Leather Practices
00:00:54
Speaker
We discussed the state of the leather industry today, how Moore & Giles view leather as a waste-divergent strategy from the meat industry, and how they now have developed a cradle-to-cradle plant-based dye that is a by-product itself of the olive industry to create a truly circular economy tanning process.
00:01:14
Speaker
Quality natural leather has a long life and improves with age, unlike so-called eco or vegan leather that's basically completely different material, likely PVC or vinyl layered with lots of chemicals. So there's real food for thought in this conversation. If you're interested to learn more about their supply business, check out more and Giles dot com forward slash leather. I'll put that in the show notes. You can also email me on mail at Matt Morley dot com with any comments and suggestions.
00:01:42
Speaker
So here we go. Let's talk to Beverly McCauley from Moore and Giles. Thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate your time.
Beverly's Journey and Role
00:01:52
Speaker
As an intro, I just wanted to
00:01:55
Speaker
to take a little step back to set the scene, because I know you're an ambassador for the ILFI, the Living Future Institute. You have your own nature-based retreats. And I know that mindfulness meditation is a part of your personal life, possibly professional in some way as well. So you've got a number of interests. You're also director of education and sustainability for more in Giles. So what's the career path that's led you to where you are today? And how do you sort of balance all these different interests?
00:02:25
Speaker
Balance is a great word and always a challenge, but it's been interesting. I have a degree in design, interior design, and quickly after college many years ago, learned that I really enjoyed learning. I just wanted to keep learning and quickly moved into being a representative for various natural products throughout my career as a resource to my clients. So that's the way I've
00:02:55
Speaker
I always liked to be in my job, in my career. On the flip side, in my personal life, I've been a nature freak since I was little. That's where I found my peace. That's where I found my inspiration and always would prefer to be outside versus not. And so through the years, I kept finding that my interests had these different lives. So the nature-based retreats,
00:03:25
Speaker
the meditation, you know, it all centered around health and wellness. And then several years ago, really made that connection between nature and health and wellness. And then this position, career wise, has just been that final puzzle piece to really make it all come together. So now all of these experiences and pieces of me are put together in this really great puzzle where I can
00:03:54
Speaker
bring people together through my love of nature and connect people to it and support it through action and through educating folks and trying to lead the way as much as possible in this industry to help people make wise decisions when it comes to the environment and our planet.
00:04:18
Speaker
Okay, so then that sort of leads us neatly into second question then around the actual Moron Giles business today and its structure and products. So you've got this passion and interest and understanding of nature and natural products and here you are today as Director of Sustainability and Education. So could you just describe to us the various products, services and the business structure of Moron Giles today?
Moore & Giles' Operations and Sustainability
00:04:44
Speaker
Just the business structure, basically, we are a leather company. We bring leather into the United States from various tanneries around the world, depending on their forte, their product. We also have a bag and accessory division as well that we host from our same headquarters in Virginia.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, so we have over several hundred different products, colors. We inventory more leather in the U.S. than any other supplier. And we have, you know, when it comes to sustainability, thankfully and proudly have led the way in the industry and continue to do so. So just keep trying to push that envelope and help the industry to become more and more sustainable.
00:05:37
Speaker
OK, and the main the key point there then is is that leather is effectively a byproduct of another industry. So it would be the byproduct of the beef industry. We can say what we like about what's good or bad about the beef industry. But your main sort of foundation of the argument is that this is happening anyway. And and this leather would presumably just be left to be thrown away. Yeah.
00:06:03
Speaker
That's absolutely the case. It's so funny. I found myself, you know, I've been selling or working with leather for 16 years, over 16 years, and I, you know, we would continually say it's a byproduct. It's a byproduct. And then I started realizing a lot of people don't really understand what that means. The leather industry is not the meat industry. The leather industry exists to divert the waste.
00:06:27
Speaker
from the meat industry. So if the leather industry didn't exist, the hides that are produced by the waste or by the meat industry would go into the landfill. It would be a huge environmental issue. There are 300 million plus or minus hides annually that would be added to the landfills around the world. So the leather industry
00:06:58
Speaker
really is an answer to an otherwise hazardous environmental issue. So that's the first thing that I think people aren't aware of and don't really realize. They still, I get clients who will say, or people who will say, well, don't you kill the cow for the hide. And I will tell you, no cow is killed for its hide. Same would go for sheep. People eat lamb as well. Everything that we provide is a byproduct.
00:07:28
Speaker
In other words, everything that we provide is diverted waste and it's tanned to be converted into something useful and functional and gorgeous and long lasting. So yeah, that's a big learning curve for folks. And usually once they get past that, it's a lot easier to look at and consider leather. The other thing that is kind of a byproduct of that is people ask about animal welfare.
00:07:58
Speaker
Again, the people tanning leather are not the farmers raising the cows or the meat industry rendering those cows. However, over the years, a lot of the tanneries have been able to come together and help create legislation to better the animal welfare down that supply chain to the farmer. So that's kind of an interesting
00:08:22
Speaker
know, they didn't have to do that. But that has happened. It's been a positive influence from the leather industry backward toward the farming industry.
Tannery Partnerships and Innovation
00:08:35
Speaker
Would Morin Drowse then prioritize certain certain suppliers that have, for example, say, a certain level of environmental standards over others because it's so big, the industry is so
00:08:46
Speaker
Huge. How is the business selecting those that it chooses to work with versus those that it perhaps doesn't deem appropriate to work with? Tanning leather has been an industry for thousands of years. I mean, it's just been around for so long. So there's this huge history behind it. And within the last several decades, it has been imperative for tanneries to innovate.
00:09:16
Speaker
or die. I mean, if they don't do the right thing or change, they're not going to last very long. Thankfully, we have longstanding relationships with our tanneries, so it's more likely for us to work with a company for a long time and work with them, if need be, to help them move forward and be innovative than to just pick up new tanneries every year and drop the other ones.
00:09:45
Speaker
The tanneries, it's important to us then, therefore, to work with tanneries that are well-respected, good to their community, good to their people, doing the right thing, being reach compliant and chemically and environmentally doing the right thing. So a lot of the tanneries we work with on their own without us having to say anything are doing some really great things environmentally. And then when something comes along that
00:10:14
Speaker
is even better that I'm sure we'll probably talk about like olive tanning. We go to those tanneries and we feel comfortable saying we'd love for you to try this. Let's work together and collaborate to make this happen to once again keep pushing that forward. And so just for those of us who perhaps are less familiar with the structure of the industry as a whole then, the role of the tannery and then the ultimate sort of
00:10:44
Speaker
that the brand, the company that turned it into a product, in this case, more on Giles, so that others, you're then buying the skins. The tannery is sourcing the skins, applying, there's some energy use in that process. Could you just talk us through the details of how that works? Because it's not entirely clear to me at least. Sure. And, you know, I'm sure there are variations around the world, but in general, the farmer, I'm just going to go all the way back. The farmer raises the cow or the cattle for the meat and dairy industries.
00:11:13
Speaker
If a cow's a dairy cow, at the end of its life, they're not going to bury it in the backyard. It's going to go to the meat industry. So ultimately, the meat industry byproduct is then purchased. And sometimes there's someone in between there, I'll tell you, that sells it to the tannery. But some of our tanneries know the farmer where the cow was raised up the hill, just because they're in such close proximity in these little villages in Europe.
00:11:41
Speaker
And some of them get hides from other places and have them trained in. But at any rate, the hides come into the tannery. The tannery is the manufacturing process that takes that hide and tans it so that it is no longer, you know, basically no longer decomposing. It converts it into leather. So a hide isn't really leather until it's been tanned. Until it's been tanned, it is considered a hide or skin.
00:12:10
Speaker
Once it's tanned, then it goes through those processes at the tannery to make it the product that you wear or you sit on. They do all of the finishing processes. At that point, it's then brought over to the supplier like ourselves, who then inspects stores and sells the product.
00:12:35
Speaker
are somewhat unique with our tanneries in that, like I said before, we will collaborate and create products with them just for us or just for our clients. But they do all of the manufacturing process portion.
00:12:53
Speaker
So they're more in jobs would be both in one sense, a middleman that then supplies the finished hides to say interior designers or architects who are doing interior fifth house, what have you, but also in some instances you create products yourselves, such as the furniture and bags. It's true. And we, we do, um, we sell, we're a wholesale company when it comes to our hot, the hides of leather.
00:13:20
Speaker
we sell to upholsterers, we sell to furniture manufacturers, you know, those industries as well. Okay and so you mentioned the olive green and it's probably the product that sort of most leapt out from the research that I've done online just because it just seems yeah sort of a fantastic combination of ideas and natural products. So
00:13:45
Speaker
Obviously you're very proud of that. Were you involved in its process?
Olive Tannery Process Explained
00:13:48
Speaker
I mean, could you just sort of give a description of exactly how you're using Olives as another by-product to Tam, the leather, which in itself is a by-product, right? Yeah, so it is so cool. This process totally is what re-energized me within the industry, got me excited about seeking the role I'm playing now.
00:14:15
Speaker
and kind of was that puzzle piece that connected everything together that I mentioned before. The product itself is called Oliven Leader, okay? That's who makes the product. And it's actually, it's not the olive itself, it's a byproduct from the olive industry. So it's using a byproduct, a tanner byproduct, best of both worlds, totally plant-based. So basically it's the fallen olive leaves,
00:14:42
Speaker
from the olive trees, or when they prune the olive trees for production, just like you would prune an apple tree, because if you don't, it's not going to render good apples. It's those olive leaves, but it also uses, I'm always learning more and more, just the waste from the industry. So when they press the olives to make olive oil, that's kind of the more solid waste that comes from the olive pieces, if you will, that can be used.
00:15:11
Speaker
All of these different portions of the olive industry, the byproducts, and that's an important word when it comes to this process, are used to tan leather. So rather than taking something from nature like tree bark or plant oil or harvesting in actual growing trees and cutting them down to use, this is just product that would otherwise be burned into the atmosphere or go to waste.
00:15:40
Speaker
in some way. So it's a really great circular model. And this was one of the products that you then took forward for a healthy material certification, right? Is that right? So we have four and growing. I think we might add a couple more this year. Olive tans,
00:16:03
Speaker
products within our line and within those several different colors and textures. The beauty of this process is you're not really limited, so you can have all these different textures and colors and possibilities really, a lot of really great possibilities. We took our end products and went for declare labels for those on the tanning end.
00:16:33
Speaker
The 11 liter product that is used for tanning these leathers is cradle to cradle gold and material health platinum, which is also unheard of in the tanning industry. So that's, it's just really, we feel this process will turn the tanning industry on its ear.
00:16:55
Speaker
There are a lot of great things happening with the typical way people tan leather and have for many years But this is just kind of that next generation You know, this is we're seeing into the future here with this product
00:17:08
Speaker
For those who are perhaps unfamiliar, you dropped quite a few terms. I'm sorry.
Cradle-to-Cradle Certification Significance
00:17:13
Speaker
Those standards, I mean, the red list is pretty much the gold standard. It's pretty demanding in terms of the chemicals that it does not want to see anywhere near your product, but then to also have or aligned with cradle to cradle, which is perhaps more of a sort of a circular economy approach to things. Would that be right?
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, so if you think of like the things I mentioned, a declare label is like a nutrition label for a product. So that will take into account the chemicals used. As you mentioned, super strict. So to achieve a declare red list free label is the highest standard out there right now. And we have that on all of those products.
00:17:59
Speaker
And then when you go to cradle to cradle, that's just what it says. So cradle the beginning of your product to the beginning of the next product, instead of what used to be termed cradle to grave, which was the beginning of the product to the end of the product. In this case, there is no end. So that tanning product has the cradle to cradle award.
00:18:22
Speaker
finished tanning the leather and you have this leftover residue from the tanning product, you can literally, you compost it. It can be used as fertilizer for those same olive trees. You can compost it in your backyard compost. It is not harmful at all. So it's pretty exciting stuff. So that deals with kind of the end of life and material health, environmental health through the whole process, that kind of thing.
00:18:51
Speaker
And then the platinum material health rating is actually a piece of the cradle to cradle. So you could just go for a material health rating. It could be used to kind of scale up to that cradle to cradle award, but it is one of the five factors considered in cradle to cradle. So in the material health rating, that's looking at the chemicals at that stage. So making sure that there's
00:19:20
Speaker
no chemicals involved that are considered hazardous or chemicals of concern. Is there anything that's lost then in taking that approach? I mean you've seen quite optimistic that it's a real innovation within the industry. Is there anything that you're not able to do or that there's certain things that the more traditional craft-based sort of the old way of doing things are only
00:19:44
Speaker
that you can only do that way or are you pretty much able to match it by doing this sort of fully eco approach? You know, when mineral tanned or chromium tan leathers came along, and that's 80 to 90% of our leather in the world is tanned with chemicals, basically, minerals, that opened up a huge world of accessibility
00:20:13
Speaker
to options from the vegetable tanned leathers before it. So oftentimes people use a combination of the two just to have a different hand or product at the end of the day, but vegetable tanned products were very limited. And that tanning process has its own concerns here or there. The nice thing about this olive tanned products that we have
00:20:43
Speaker
This process is like the best of both worlds and even better really, because with veg tan you're taking something from nature versus what I mentioned before this. With this, you can have softness, which you can't have with vegetable tan leather. It's really more firm like a shoe sole or something or belt. You can also have color variation, texture variation, all these possibilities that you would have with the mineral tan leather, the chromium tan leather.
00:21:12
Speaker
without the chemicals. So there aren't, we're not seeing a lot of issues. I think the main thing is, well, two things, you know, it's new. So every time a tannery will make a new product, it's, you know, about finessing it to get the right end results in that, again, aesthetically, really. And then getting people on board to understand why it may
00:21:41
Speaker
be a little bit more expensive sometimes because it's new and it's small batch. If you think of the first small batch brewery, you know, um, micro brews or whatever, you know, that was, especially in the United States, you know, there was a handful now they're everywhere, you know? Um, so it's, it's just a matter of gaining popularity and understanding. And I think that's probably the biggest challenge is that at the moment.
00:22:12
Speaker
You do have these, there's obviously some degree of scale. Is it purely on, what would be the factors that you'd identify then because you have, for example, you supply to say automotive, to marine, which I presume is sort of high-end stuff and aviation events like private jets. What are the differences between say that and something that's going into say residential, commercial, interior usage? How do you distinguish between those levels of quality or refinement?
00:22:42
Speaker
Right, I think in many cases it's about the function that you're needing, especially when you break out some of those specific types of markets. The function that you're needing and then the preference. So for instance in aviation, due to a lot of the requirements on the business aviation side of things, I mean they beat up those. There's a lot of use.
00:23:10
Speaker
And they're looking for consistency. So patina that you would get with a natural leather is probably out of the question. So you're needing something that's a little more finished with some pigment in it. It's got to meet some strict testing, typically for abrasion or flame retardants or whatever. So there are certain types of products that are better for that. However, I have used on private aviation
00:23:39
Speaker
as an individual's private aircraft, all of the things that we've used in the residential market before. Again, it was their personal preference and what they were okay with. So we can cross over with any of these markets just fine. It's just really a matter of what is the function you're looking for? What is the look that you're looking for? Pureability is an interesting word because it strikes me that leather is perhaps one of the products that
00:24:07
Speaker
other like wine ages well and with time almost it develops that path now it develops more character in a way so how do you can contrast that with say you know the arguments for what's loosely termed eco leather or vegan leathers which as i understand it without having dug too deeply into it they are not in fact leathers at all is that right correct oh my gosh i could talk to you for hours about that but i won't i promise um vegan leather is not
00:24:37
Speaker
possible. This is maybe import taste, but you cannot be pregnant and not pregnant at the same time. I kind of say the same thing. So in order to be a leather, you have to be from an animal. So you can't be vegan and leather at the same time. Most, the majority of the products that are out there that are using that terminology, it's such a shame to me. It's just a marketing technique to
00:25:07
Speaker
make people feel like they're making this really great decision, you know, when in actuality they're choosing PVC or polyurethane products. So most, the majority of the products that are out there claiming to be vegan leather are faux products in the past called faux leather. We've also, you know, you can also refer to it as vinyl. These products are persistent in the environment.
00:25:33
Speaker
By using something like that, it's not going away. You're creating this process of chemicals that are on the red list, that are chemicals of concern. So it's just so not the better decision when it comes to environment and health. Also, what you get with a product like that is you have to replace it more often. So it's not going to wear in over time. So to your point, with a leather lasting so long,
00:26:03
Speaker
and being this heirloom quality product, how often have you heard someone say, man, I can't wait until I can inherit my grandmother's vinyl couch? Not many, not often do you say, oh, I want that plastic chair. I can't wait till I have that handed down to me. That will likely never be handed down to you. It will be in a landfill somewhere forever and ever, you know,
00:26:30
Speaker
So as I said, I could speak to that for a long time, but leather lasts, it outlasts and outliers and it's just so beautiful for a longer period of time. So not only do you get a nice product in the beginning, but as you replace this other product, you're multiple times, you're building up this landfill waste again and causing more chemical processes to happen because you're, you know,
00:26:58
Speaker
continue to buy it, continue to have it made, all of these other products, while the leather still sits and the leather has not needed to be replaced. It's just overall in the life cycle of the product, it's really important to look, is it a circle or a line? That's the most simple way I'd like to say to my clients, are you looking at a timeline, like here's the beginning, here's the end,
00:27:26
Speaker
then what happens at the end? Or are you looking at a circle? Can this thing be
Leather Care Tips
00:27:31
Speaker
reused? Can it be used for a longer period of time and cutting down the waste? And in terms of maintenance and looking after one's leather, I noticed that you recently brought out an antimicrobial spray that I guess is a sort of reaction to, or response to what's happening around COVID. But in terms of what one could or should be doing to look after one's leather in, let's call it in sort of
00:27:55
Speaker
a home or commercial environment in furniture to make sure that it is able to do that, to make sure that it can live that nice long life and it ages well. Are there any tips? I mean, you guys are the experts in this. What do you normally recommend? Sure. The number one thing you can do with your leather is dust it. Dust. That's the main thing. Like a plant? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I need to dust my plants. But you're right.
00:28:25
Speaker
absorb and collect that dust after a period of time and that can kind of cause it to dry out just like our skin. If we never loof it or used to wash cloth or did something in a shower to clean ourselves, our own skin doesn't look that great after a while. So just dusting, people are
00:28:48
Speaker
We're seeing people get a lot better with patina and natural leathers, which is great. That's, you know, you're speaking our language because we love the natural leathers and the way they patina and age and they become part of your story. They become part of your character. You know, if you have a natural leather chair and you spill something on it, yes, you'll see it immediately. And just don't just be calm and take a deep breath because in a few days, you know, blot it up and that's great.
00:29:17
Speaker
but it will work its way through the fibers and it will release, it will mellow. And then what you have after that is either you won't even notice it was over there or it becomes part of the patina, but it's so much more mellowed out. I like to use this as an example. I have a client who was, we were kind of talking about the same subject one day and maintenance and how people get all worked up over patina, just,
00:29:46
Speaker
live, just live in your leather." And he said, I have this chair, and he has three kids. And he said, and it's just my chair. He said, you know, you can see kind of a spot on the back where I sit from just the oils from his head, you know, or the arms where his hands set, you know, over the years, he's had it for a long time. He said, and one day my kids were talking, and these are kids that are like college, late high school age,
00:30:10
Speaker
And they were kind of fighting over who gets the chair. And he asked, why in the world are you guys fighting over this chair? It's just my chair. And the daughter said, dad, when I see this chair, I see you. And I want this because I want you in my life. And so it was a very touching moment unexpectedly during the presentation. But it really says so much about
00:30:37
Speaker
how leather is inherently part of us and can become part of our story. So when you do find that you need to clean a product, there are products that we carry that you can use, typically a damp rag, mild soapy water, something simple. It doesn't have to be anything else. The eco shield that we've brought on, you're right, COVID threw us off for a loop last year. And what we saw was a reaction of like,
00:31:06
Speaker
bleach everywhere, people spraying harmful chemicals and alcohol-based, solvent-based products that not only are they not good for the leather or anything you're using it on, but they're also not good to be inhaling. I mean, we're all inhaling this stuff. So we took our time and tried to find a safe alternative, a safe product.
00:31:31
Speaker
So the way that EcoShield works is it kills mechanically, not chemically. So there are no toxic chemicals within it. It's been deemed awarded safe for food contact surfaces. It's been used in school districts. It's been used in airports. It continues to work for up to 90 days. So, you know, that antibacterial stuff we've been putting on our hands for the last year, like every five minutes, it only works when it's wet.
00:32:00
Speaker
And that's true of so many other things. So that's why I have to reapply it all the time. Because, okay, I touched this thing. Let me put this stuff on. Okay, that killed that. Now I go touch another thing. Oh, guess what? I got to use it again. This product actually just apply it once. And then you just reapply it after about 90 days because over time it will wear off, scratch off, you know, that sort of thing. But it doesn't, it keeps working at the same heightened level.
00:32:28
Speaker
by just killing on contact any of these microbes. In fact, it draws it down. So if I were to put it, spray it lightly on my desk, it would draw down the microbes from the air and atmosphere, kill it on contact. It's pretty cool stuff. Yeah, I like it. Nature knows best. Yeah.
Future Sustainability Projects
00:32:49
Speaker
Looking ahead then to your projects for sustainability and education over the next year or two, what do you have in the pipeline? What's coming next?
00:32:56
Speaker
Well, you know, we're looking at every aspect of what we do internally at our headquarters from, you know, we've created a conservation team at the headquarters to get all of the departments involved and looking at what are we doing and how can we be doing it better. So that's kind of fun. We do have an onsite garden at our headquarters and we grow food. It's all employee driven.
00:33:26
Speaker
We grow food and supply not only the people within the office as they need it, but if people within the community are in trouble and they need a little extra help. We have that availability there. We're also looking at
00:33:48
Speaker
well, just several different things within our headquarters that I'm excited about. We're also always looking at reducing waste. We don't have a lot of waste at our headquarters. Even when we cut samples and there's a little waste or trim a hide, we sell that for pennies on the dollar to people who will make something from it. But we're kind of looking at that process and hopefully we'll have something maybe exciting to share
00:34:18
Speaker
before the end of the year, sooner rather than later. We also are working with all of our tanneries again to understand the certifications and awards and the measures that they're taking because there's a lot and they should be proud of them. It's pretty cool. So we're gathering that information and I know that we are having, like I said before, a couple of new products made through the olive tanning process.
00:34:46
Speaker
And also looking at what other, you know, how can we continue to grow and push that envelope to lead the way within the tanning industry and also within our, you know, the building industry in general, design, architecture. How can we make decisions that will make a larger impact more quickly than
00:35:11
Speaker
just me having my little compost here at home. I mean, that's great, right? But if we can detect this on a larger scale, we could really create the difference that needs to happen. Well, it's great stuff. I look forward to seeing developments over the next few years, no doubt. So to follow along, obviously, orangeiles.com will link in the show notes. In terms of putting out publications, people getting in touch, what's the best route in? Well, I would say if you're interested, you know,
00:35:42
Speaker
If you're interested in our bags and accessories by all means go to moreingiles.com. If you're looking for more information about our leather hides in general as a designer you can go there and go to the top of the screen and click leather for designers or you can go to moreingiles.com forward slash leather. You know people are more than welcome to reach out to me just like you did Matt and ask any questions you like about leather in general or
00:36:15
Speaker
sustainability, what we're doing, what we're aware of. And I can also put people in touch with the representative for their area if they're within the industry. Good on you. Well, Abby, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. Sure. Thank you so much. It was so nice to talk to you.