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Episode 7: Learning a Trade & Building a Life w/ Rich Hender
53 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to Episode 7! Today we are thrilled to have Rich Hender on the podcast.
With forty years of experience, Rich is one of our senior CNC machinists and a great example of the life that a career in the trades can provide.
In this episode, we explore Rich's upbringing and how it was his shop classes that forged his love of working with his hands, what he likes about machining, what has kept him at HFW and what you can find Rich doing in his free time. We explore the benefits of a career in the trades and discuss Japanese tool quality.
This was a great conversation, and we are thankful to Rich for taking some time out of his day to come on the podcast!
As always, thank you for listening! If you have any questions or feedback, email Jack at jdwatson@hfwindustries.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Rich Hender
00:00:11
Speaker
All right. And welcome back to the HFW shop talk podcast. This is episode seven. And today we have rich Hender with us, which is one of our, uh, senior machinists. He's been with us a long time, um, seen a lot, run a lot of different machines and different equipment. And we're excited to have him. So rich, thanks for being here today.
Rich's Early Life and Interest in Machining
00:00:30
Speaker
So I guess to start, let's take it back a little while. We'd like to hear, you know, we know we see where you're at now, kind of see the culmination of all your years of experience and, you know, what's gotten you here today. But I'd like to hear more about kind of where that started and
00:00:49
Speaker
You're obviously reaching toward the end of your career, but can you talk about your upbringing and what got you into the industry and what got you interested in machining and working with your hands in the first place? Well, my upbringing is typical 1960s, 1970s, stern parents. My father was a sergeant in the Army Corps in World War II.
00:01:12
Speaker
He was stern. He wasn't mean, but he was everything had to be done now and now and now and now. But then again, you had tons of freedom. I was the youngest of four. They didn't care what you did as long as you didn't get in jail. It's pretty much like it. Grammar School was this typical grammar school in the city of Buffalo.
00:01:30
Speaker
You could, a lot more freedom back there. Like we lived part of our life on the east side of Buffalo. And like I remember being like six years old, walked down the street and watched a camel come into the slaughterhouse and someone in pretty bad shape. But now you can't do stuff like that. It's like, and we go to the local parks. Nobody was there ever with you. So if you can't, which fun, but you can do now. Yeah. High school was almost all math and science classes. I loved working with my hands.
00:01:59
Speaker
back then it was like they either pushed you, literally their term was only the dumb kids take shop class. And so I was in all college prep classes and I prefer to work with my hands. And so it was just, high school is very easy and very boring.
Educational Path Influences
00:02:15
Speaker
Well, I think that's, uh, you're going to get me going on a little bit of a rant, but I think that that's one of the things that now, as we see, you know, we have guys in your position who are looking to retire. You've worked hard to earn that. Uh, and then the issue that we're looking at, and especially in the trades is they're just.
00:02:33
Speaker
There's no one, the number of people leaving is far greater than the people coming in. And I think a lot of it goes to exactly what you said. And it's actually interesting to hear you say that even back then, you still had the perception that only the dumb kids are in the trades or using their hands. My father went to their guidance counselors and said, my son likes work in his hands. Can he take shop classes? That literally is what they told my father. Only the dumb kids, his IQ levels too high to take shop classes.
00:03:00
Speaker
I think when I was talking with BOCES and they were asking, well, how do we get more people interested? And I think the counselors in high school play a large role in that, in shaping what people do. And I think that we
00:03:17
Speaker
We have to change their opinion of it and show that there are great careers here. I mean, you're a great example of it. Um, and I think it's, it's honestly, I think a lot of times the trades and with what we do, it's more fulfilling than a lot of the jobs that, you know, you go into an office every day, spend eight hours there and walk out. And, um, I'm not saying there aren't jobs that are like that, that aren't fulfilling that I know some people are very fulfilled by that, but.
00:03:42
Speaker
I don't know, there's just something different about having that tangible result. And you can make very similar, if not even more money than a lot of those jobs.
Choosing a Career in Machining
00:03:50
Speaker
And one of the things I think hopefully that we can help change with this podcast and with other marketing, we've got our marketing guy here with us, is changing that perception of what it means to work in the trades.
00:04:01
Speaker
So you're about to graduate high school. You said you'd already kind of shown that pension for wanting to work with your hands. What were you thinking was the next logical step? When I graduated high school, I had a scholarship to UB for the engineering school. I had another offer through ROTC to go like four years of college, two years of flight school, and it was a nine year commitment. And at 18, Vietnam War was just winding down. It just really, that one just didn't sound great. So I went to UB and
00:04:31
Speaker
just couldn't sit. Yeah, not want us to sit all day. You were in these classes. And it was just, I realized sitting at a desk wasn't for me. Yeah, it's awesome hearing you say this because you're validating a lot of kind of, I think the thoughts I had, you're the perfect example of, you know, school, just because you don't like school doesn't mean you can't do school. I mean, you, you, you're the, you just said you were a very good student, but just that wasn't what you were set up to do.
00:04:57
Speaker
No, just not my thing. Then I went to a trade school for auto mechanics because I liked working on my own car and that. And I liked doing it up to joint work as a mechanic up to the point where you realize in the winter you're standing on the car and you get hit in the face with slush and grease and it was just not what I wanted to do. And then I did automotive machining. And then it was just a circumstance I got offered an entry level job in a machine shop in South Buffalo.
00:05:24
Speaker
And then that was in 84 and I was been trying for five years and now it's 40 years later. Yeah. Wow. I think that's, it's a, I've had the same realization. Um, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Uh, I like doing that stuff too. I've tried to teach myself how to work on my car, being around guys like you in the shop is really helpful. Cause I learned a lot of free tips. Uh, but I've also realized, uh, sometimes it's just better to pay the a hundred bucks to change your oil, then get it all over your driveway and.
00:05:51
Speaker
And then you have to store it and get rid of it. And that doesn't mean I'm not going to still try. So you're now, like you just said, 40 years later, here you are, one of HFW's more veteran experience machinists.
Advice for New Machinists
00:06:06
Speaker
You've seen a lot of different things. What advice would you give someone? Obviously, now I think we're starting to see more and more young guys come in. We started to have a little bit more of a flow in, which is good.
00:06:18
Speaker
What advice would you give them and I guess by extension, would you tell your younger self that maybe that you didn't know then or didn't realize then when you were that younger guy? I think the way people take, whether it's this job or a desk job, they look at the money part. I think you really got to figure something you're going to enjoy doing every day. I mean, there's days where
00:06:40
Speaker
just nobody likes her job. Yeah, it's a bad day. They have some personal going on or just bad project. But on the whole, you got to do this. That's a lot of years to do it. Yeah, I'm reading a job right now or a book right now rather that talks about there's so many jobs where there you really don't do that much. And that sounds great. You're getting in his whole one premise of the book was, isn't that great? You're getting paid to do nothing. But it talks about the boredom on the mind and
00:07:10
Speaker
having nothing to do. I mean, that really eats away. And when you're spending most of your waking hours there, that's a tough way to spend a living or to make a living. So I think that's, again, one of the things
00:07:22
Speaker
is great about the industry and, uh, it's just the opportunity to try different things. I mean, even here at a shop that we're a mid-size shop, I'd say, um, there's all different opportunities and you've, I mean, you're working on different stuff all of the time. Um, I think it's, it's just interesting to see. And I, it's always, this is one of the benefits of this podcast is getting to hear different stories to the stories. I mean, you've told me several stories, um,
00:07:48
Speaker
Not about yourself necessarily, but other guys that we won't repeat here. But I just, the stories you hear in the, the, um, the camaraderie, I don't know. I think there's something to be said about it. And it seems like I think you've had a similar experience. Yeah, I would say.
00:08:04
Speaker
really before like social media, you had a lot more interaction with your fellow employees, you just have a lot of company picnics, and you got to know each other's family life. I mean, some of the guys I used to work with, I knew from when they were single up to their grandparents, it was kind of neat, you got the you started knowing the whole family, so you had a kind of a close knit group.
00:08:24
Speaker
What do you see now? So now we talked about you're the veteran guy. What are the changes, and obviously you got the computers in that, but what are the other changes you've noticed throughout your career, good and bad, in the industry as a whole and just being a person in the trades?
Evolution of Machining
00:08:44
Speaker
I think when I started, it was more like a craft type industry. You had to be very good and very talented with your hands.
00:08:50
Speaker
picture and something your mind now it's more like you said more computerized and you have to be more number savvy I guess you could call it where before you would that you could now you have like speeds and feeds and depths of cotton you have all these charts and it used to be like you took a cut and you just would like listen to the machine car you look at the chips you could just kind of get it you got a feel for it like like playing in sports you got to get a feel for what you're doing and
00:09:19
Speaker
And it's changed like the guys that I talked were probably almost all World War II veteran guys, the older guys. And from when they started to the retired, I don't think the industry changed much from when I started it was.
00:09:33
Speaker
If your drill got dull, you didn't get a new drill, you went to the grinder, you sharpened it. If you tool, most tools were like braised carbide or high speed tooling. If you needed a form tool, it wasn't programmed. If you need a big radius, you went to the grinder and you made a tool that was going to cut that profile. Now you plug in numbers and you go from there.
00:09:53
Speaker
I think it's interesting. I think that's probably where the computers come in, where everything can be calculated. And I think there's a lot of benefit. Obviously, as a CNC machinist, I think you see a lot of that. But it's also taking away a little bit of the exploration of it or just the, like you said, the craft angle of it.
00:10:16
Speaker
It's very different. I think that's how we, from an employment angle, it's how you keep the fulfillment. It sounds like to me, when you came in, it was very much, you were basically a practical engineer. You were using all your engineering skills and putting them into practice. Correct. And now it's changed to where you still need to have a lot of skill, but it's very different. It's much more, like you said, numbers based and instead necessarily
00:10:44
Speaker
There's still problem solving, but it's a little bit more mathematical and figuring out, um, how to process it in a certain way. It just different. Well, a lot of stuff like on the first jobs I did was all game drills. It was a series of drill presses, drill and holes, different size holes tapping. Now it's not cost-effective to do it that way. It's just, it's, it was tedious. It was messy and it just really wasn't cost-effective. Now you would put it in a fixture in a CNC mill and.
00:11:14
Speaker
hit the button and more accurate. It's faster. It's just a way better system. And that really just that wasn't a fun job. It was like hour after hour drilling holes. Well, that didn't that didn't help the perception of the trades either. Right. You're you're coming home soaked in oil and you got chips all over you. And we still have some of that. And I know I can say
Safety and Technology in Trades
00:11:38
Speaker
like us personally, we're trying to or as a business, we're trying to
00:11:43
Speaker
make sure that our guys aren't like that. I know we're looking at different, uh, we've got misfits on a bunch of the equipment, um, adding more, your, your equipment's all completely enclosed. Um, but that's not, I, and we, you know, our shop's bright now. It used to be, you know, the shop, you used to walk into any shop and it'd be dark and dingy and that's not the reality anymore. No, it's a lot safer now too. It's like when he first started, it's like, if there was a machine that was really loud and screaming and you asked one of the guys have been, or what do you do about the noise? They're like, Hey, you get used to it. No, you went deaf.
00:12:12
Speaker
what you were doing and they use a lot of cutting, a lot of sulfur base. Guys would smoke cigarettes while they're doing it. Most of them have passed. I wonder why. It wasn't a safe environment, which makes it a lot better now. It's like you don't really... It takes that worry off your mind of what I'm subjugating myself to.
00:12:34
Speaker
Well, I think there's been obviously a lot of different reasons for that. Social media is one. Social media holds, like it or not, I think it holds people more accountable. Businesses too. I know it's easy for business leaders to be on edge because they know if you're not watching what you're doing,
00:12:54
Speaker
you can go viral. And I think, I think that it's an accountability measure, which in some ways it's bad. I know, you know, people talk about you even sort of said, you know, you could just be a kid, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Whereas today that, you know, there's, you have to worry about danger, you have to, but also, you know, you have to worry about what's going to end up online. And, um, but I think there are positives to that too. And like, safety's one. Um, and I think that,
00:13:18
Speaker
We talk about being a good employer. We had Jason on. It starts with safety and it starts with making sure that everyone's coming in and getting better every day, not getting worse, which I think is what you had with some of the older ways of doing things. I was just the status quo and that was what happened. I look at it now too.
00:13:42
Speaker
I think as an employer, you should want not only to obviously not injure people and have people walk out of the job worse than they came in, but also caring about people's health. I think you're seeing a lot of that and carrying out people as the whole person because like you mentioned it, Eliza's mentioned it. I think most people on the podcast have mentioned it. Anything you have going on in your personal life, whether it's a health issue or a family issue, you can't just leave that out, right? You don't just walk in the door. No, you're supposed to give me like, oh, leave home at home and work at work and it's impossible.
00:14:12
Speaker
if you're having a really bad day at home, it carries in. There's just no way you can, maybe some people, most people can't turn it off. And so it's nice to have the additional safety factors at work too, where sometimes it needs to cover for your own lack of concentration.
00:14:27
Speaker
Well, and that's the, you know, what we do is very precise work and something can go wrong in an instant. But I think that's, it's kind of one of the, I think it keeps you engaged. It's, it's fun. Uh, it, because our, you know, our tolerances are really, really tight and you have to meet it. But like you said, things can go wrong very quickly. And, um, that's why.
00:14:48
Speaker
There's a reason the safety is in place you know when we know some of our customers we have you walk on their site and the safety measures are very very strict. And like my father's always saying it's because they know something can go very very wrong and very very a very very short amount of time.
00:15:07
Speaker
So I think it's just measuring that. And I know safety can kind of be a topic that irks some people because sometimes safety feels like you're just trying to inconvenience others. And I think there's angles of that. I think there's two types of safety. There's safety to keep people safe and care for people, which I think is what safety should be about. And then there's safety just to cover your butt so you don't get sued. And I think that's kind of the wrong way to do safety. And I think the right way is just
00:15:35
Speaker
just to care for people. You don't want people getting hurt. That's just the right way to do it, which I think is one of the benefits. I think more businesses are... That's more the expectation now. More personally, I guess, getting into the personal side, which for me is always one of the fun parts of the episode. How would you say you've changed from when you started out in the industry in your 20s and 30s to where you are today in your
The Role of Patience in Machining
00:16:02
Speaker
life?
00:16:02
Speaker
I see that question. I kept trying to figure it out. It's like you really change tons and you don't think about it. It's just like, oh, I think most people like in their twenties, you think you know everything. There's elderly guys, elderly people nowadays, and you like, you listen to them, you're like, yeah, yeah, whatever. I don't care. And then now you get to my age and you look back like, I wish I'd listened to that person a little more. And maybe I shouldn't have listened to some people because they've got to be in a lot of trouble. But I mean,
00:16:31
Speaker
Well, I'm trying to take your advice now. I don't know. I like listening to you and others who have all the stories. The stories are the fun part. And it's kind of when times were tough, those end up being the good stories. And so I try to use those and hopefully avoid some of those situations. But then the tough situations are what bring people together, too.
00:16:55
Speaker
I think you start to learn too, at least I have. You get a job and just throwing in a machine and rushing it is sometimes the worst thing you can do because you need to maybe have a cup of coffee and spend 10 minutes and looking at what you're doing because you might see the first operation isn't going to work as well as you think and it's going to make a nightmare down the road. Sometimes it looks like you're doing nothing, but the 15 minutes you spend might save you hours of production costs down the road.
00:17:23
Speaker
I think that comes with experience. You learn, you learn, start to learn patients and you could learn to work at your own pace and yeah. Well, cause some of that's counterintuitive, right? You spend a little bit more time now and it, you might feel like, oh, I'm wasting this time, but then it, it, it saves your butt down the line. Yes. So I know you're into woodworking. Um, and you've told me a little bit, but I'd like to hear a little bit more. I think you told me that started with, with your shop is an eighth grade shop. Uh, teacher, Mr. Doherty was.
00:17:51
Speaker
funny guy. And it's like, he would make these he's his first class he always made a bet he took over school glue, took two pieces of wood, he would just put the glue between and rub the boards together and put them in a vice. Yeah, I finally did this every year. And he'd always bet the whole class.
00:18:07
Speaker
which think is stronger, the glue joint or the wood. And it was a, he always said the glue joint, no, but every laughed and he would bet 10 pushups and Delmer school glue joint held in the wood failed. And he, but it was a great influence. I mean, I enjoyed the heck out of it. Cause that's probably the first thing I had somebody actually teaching you to work with your hands. And then, um, actually probably really got back into it after we bought a house.
00:18:33
Speaker
I grew up in an old house in South Buffalo and a handout, like the Victorian style cabinets with the beadboard and the glass doors. And I loved them. When we got a price on them for our house, it was like five times the cost of what a, like a Lowe's type cabinet would be. And so I said, what the heck if I take a shot at it?
00:18:55
Speaker
I ordered a bunch of lumber, I bought some tools and I did most of it with anti-cantles because it's also, it was quiet. You can actually do it without listening to machines scream and I built my own cabinets and just kind of snowballed from there. Wow. That's super cool. I think that's one of the
00:19:16
Speaker
The benefits that you can measure and that I really appreciate about a business like HFW is you've got all these guys like yourself that do stuff. I've heard all sorts of stories just like that, just very resourceful.
Impact of Shop Class on Skills
00:19:31
Speaker
You were able to take something and you're like, well, I could do that. And actually,
00:19:35
Speaker
Like kind of like you were saying earlier with running a machine, you were able to, you didn't have plans in front of you. Kind of just figured it out and worked your way through. And I think, um, I dunno, those are just the type of people I like being around. I like hearing those stories and then hopefully learning a thing or two along the way. So what is something most people at HFW might not know about you? I think that I gave up college to work as a machinist. I would think I was insane. I don't know.
00:20:04
Speaker
Well, it's a pretty open book. Yeah. That's also one of the fun things about the shop in general. I think most guys are in it. Like we said, not all of it we're able to share here, but I mean, it keeps it fun. You actually mentioned woodworking with your shop class and how much of an influence
00:20:23
Speaker
that was to you. That made me think back to my experience. I think I had a similar experience to you. Well, first I was told, well, you can take the tech classes, but that's normally where the bad kids normally take the kids you don't really want to hang out with. I actually didn't find that to be true. A lot of the kids I was in those classes with have gone on to be engineers, so they weren't exactly stupid.
00:20:48
Speaker
But also, I just remember we had a similar when you were talking about putting the wood and the glue in the vice. It made me remember when we built bridges out of timber, like small bridges, and then they tried to crush them. It was we had a competition to see who could build the strongest bridge. And I think that was
00:21:07
Speaker
I feel like every student should have to do that in high school because there were no plans. They didn't tell you how to do it. You had to take the resources you had and figure out, how do I build the strongest bridge? You had to do your own research, and then you had to go about building it and figuring out a way to build it. Luckily, I was like a sophomore maybe. I had a junior or senior that was helping me, so we ended up winning, not because of me.
00:21:31
Speaker
Just that experience of it's unstructured, you don't know what you're doing, you just have to turn it into something and see what happens. Even if you don't go into the trades, I think that's applicable to anyone.
Teaching Basic Technical Skills
00:21:41
Speaker
I think it's useful just in your everyday life. Right. You'll see people have a flat tire and they have no idea how to change a flat tire.
00:21:48
Speaker
Exactly. I was going to bring that exact point up. Or your toilet's clogged or something, and you just immediately call the plumber. I mean, not only is it a pain, but you're spending extra money and just teaching basic things, even changing a light bulb out. And what kind of light bulb do you need? I feel like that, hopefully, that's simple. But for a lot of people, I'm not so sure. Well, both my granddaughters have work benches in my shop. So I think they like to build, which usually is glue, glitter, and who knows what.
00:22:18
Speaker
They know how to use some hand tools. They know the difference between a Phillips and a straight screwdriver, which people in their 40s and 50s don't. They know how to use hand saws.
00:22:29
Speaker
And then see, I think I I think that's I think social media. That's tons of fun. Just train somebody like that. Yeah, I think social media actually it can be helpful in that regard because it I know it. There's people that have these like craft sites, right? And you go on, you see them. Right. And so you're able they're able to spread that a little bit and get people interested in some of these, I guess, like old world type stuff and hopefully keep the keep the legacy and the heritage and the history together and moving into the future.
00:22:59
Speaker
We've covered a lot today, Rich, but I guess changing into the future, what are you looking forward to and what gets you up in the morning? What gets you excited? What are you looking forward to in the years ahead?
Looking Forward to Retirement
00:23:13
Speaker
Well, I'm close to retirement, so I really want to explore how much I can push my woodworking. I do enjoy that. Spending more time with my family, especially my granddaughters. They're in Rochester, so I don't see that much of them.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah. That's where the technology is nice. I FaceTime them every week and we talk. FaceTime is really nice. I can attest to that. Without that, if it was back when I was their age, my grandfather was in Jamestown. I was lucky I seen him twice in my life because you just didn't do that. So technology is great if you use it the right way. Yeah. Was your grandfather... I'm just curious. I'm trying to put the dates together. What was your grandfather? Would he have been born in the 1800s?
00:23:56
Speaker
I believe so. My dad was born 1929, I believe it was. My mother was 23, so yeah, he would have been born there. In fact, he was, my grandfather was placed on business hall Crawford furniture in Jamestown. He made all the prototypes.
00:24:14
Speaker
And that was different too. Like woodworking back in the 70s was really production woodworking. Nobody bought handmade single piece items. So that's where things have changed. Now people will pay, actually not just because of money, but they like one of a kind handmade pieces.
00:24:32
Speaker
where back in the 70s, everybody wanted that mass produced, you know, IKEA type stuff. Yeah, I think it's cool how that stuff kind of changes. And that's I've changed my purchasing habits a little bit to like want to look for exactly what you're talking about, the handmade stuff, the stuff that's made, or at least just, you know, where it's made, like, right? So much of our stuff is just built across the world and some
00:24:58
Speaker
dark and dingy building like that used to exist in the US. And I don't know, it's nice knowing where your stuff comes from, who made it. It's being done the right way by tradespeople that aren't being abused and aren't, you know, they're making a living wage. And I think it's I've changed a little bit because I like I like a good deal, but I also think it's it's like you were saying, it's sometimes the better deal to actually spend a little bit more on quality goods.
00:25:25
Speaker
Well, there is you get a woodwork and there is a lot of quality Japanese chisels if you have really get it up there. They're laminated steel. My wife ever heard how much I paid for and she'd not be happy. But they're amazing tools. They're just way superior than American made chisels. And I found out the American made chisels could be that good. But they said the average American doesn't know how to use a good chisel. So they basically dumbed down tools sometimes. But yeah, a lot of your American products are very superior to.
00:25:53
Speaker
We could get going down a rabbit hole about Japanese. I'm a huge Toyota fan and obviously they're a Japanese company and a lot of Toyota as a company is in their heritage. You can see the Japanese roots and just the insistence on quality and building things the right way even to this day.
00:26:16
Speaker
And it's even interesting to look back at Japanese history and look at that country was decimated coming out of World War II and looking what they've turned into. Now they got some challenges actually, because somewhat similar to the trades, most of their country is very old. And so looking at the challenges that they have in the future now,
00:26:34
Speaker
But I think it's cool to explore kind of the, like you were talking about the Japanese stuff. Well, didn't Toyota develop the whole lean manufacturing? Yeah. Well, we could talk about this. Because I went through a Kaiser out of it. Yeah. Well, that's the thing that I think with Toyota developed lean. And so every company then was like, oh, we have to adopt lean. But every company, not every company, a lot of companies just took
00:27:04
Speaker
the bullet point summary at the top of the page and they're like, okay, let's go do that. It's going to save as much money. But lean as Toyota thinks of it as a philosophy, it's a way of doing things. It's not just to cut costs. That's, that's one of the results that you can get is it saves money, but it's not just to cut costs. And I think a lot of American companies are like, oh, we can save a million dollars and didn't read the whole thing and look at the philosophy behind it. And then even, you know, you saw a lean with COVID, you saw people say, this is the end of lean manufacturing.
00:27:34
Speaker
Well, I don't think so because Toyota is still a big fan of lean and they were actually the car maker that came out of the pandemic the best. Why? It's because they learned from their 2011, the Japanese earthquake and tsunami, they learned that they can't just cut everything. They need to have strategic stockpiles of goods that like chips was the example for the car makers. They need to have a stockpile of those because it was so critical to the rest of all their production.
00:28:02
Speaker
Which i think is a great example, just going back to our conversation earlier, of how things evolve. Just because they're a fan of lean doesn't mean that they need to have... It wasn't just a cost-cutting measure for them. They were really trying to find a way to make their company better. And actually, it's funny when we talk about employment and treating people right,
00:28:24
Speaker
Toyota is a great employer, even in the US. I think their goal, as is ours, is to have lifetime employees. I was looking at the retention rates. This is an indictment of what I do in my free time. The retention rates of their facility in Indiana are really, really good. The average tenure is 33 years or something. It was crazy.
00:28:47
Speaker
So I think they're a great example of doing things right. And outside of HFW, I say Toyota is one of my favorite companies. But we'll talk about the rest of it. We'll talk about my love of Toyota somewhere else since we on board everyone here.
00:29:02
Speaker
All right, Rich, I guess one last question I would have for you is, you've been at HFW... Eight years in June. Eight years. Especially as we're looking now, there's a huge demand for machinists everywhere. What keeps you at HFW? What is it that you like about HFW and that, I guess, keeps you here and happy? Well, the other place I was at was 31 years, and then it just became a mismanaged company.
00:29:33
Speaker
Maybe it's outdated old-fashioned. My whole goal was I wanted to work one place 40 years. That was it. Then I came here and I knew a lot of guys that came here and they said it was a great place to work and it still is. I like it. I like the familiarity of it, I guess you could say. I'm not just a person that bouts from job to job. I guess it's kind of like you said about the Japanese.
00:30:04
Speaker
wanting to work for a place in my whole career, which doesn't mean. Yeah. Well, I think obviously we've seen that change. We've seen it's more common to bounce around a little bit. Um, and I don't, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but I think we've, we've tried to create an environment where, um, people want to stay. And I think that's like the job of an employer is to, how do you create an environment where people don't want to bounce around? Like I've seen the things where, you know, if you move around,
00:30:33
Speaker
you generally make more than if you stay i don't that's not right you know that's that's and that's why i think we as a company try to make sure that we're reviewing wages annually at least sometimes even twice a year. Just to make sure that we can keep on pace and keep people happy cuz at the end of the day i think it's easier for everyone to for an employee to stay over a long period of time helps the company and i think.
00:30:56
Speaker
You know, changing jobs all the time. Some people I think you probably get used to it, but it's nice to kind of have, you know, not have to worry about the next place you're going to work or, um, I don't know, it's kind of nice for me. And I've only been here a little while, but I don't have to worry about continually updating my resume because, you know, I know I'm happy here. And, and I think that.
00:31:17
Speaker
I don't know. I just think that treating people well and trying to be a good place to work, it works for the employee and it works for the company. And I think that's been HFW's secret, I think, for 75 years. I think if you enjoy your job, it's easier to stay, too. Yeah. Well, and I know this has kept coming up by talking to guys that are looking at different jobs. And not being a production shop, I think, helps a lot of it. I couldn't do production. That's what everyone says. There's people that love it, but it's just
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely like I look at it, you know, I've got friends that and you know, a lot of the companies that come and recruit our school are are all like these, you know, the big multinationals that and it's all 100% production. And so it is interesting to talk to them because they're
00:32:04
Speaker
their, their norm and what they're used to is very different from what we're dealing with here. But I know I, I, on a whole, I think for a machinist, it depends what you want, but I think one of the benefits of a job shop like we have here is just, you know, the, the variation and the, it's consistent, but also it's different every day challenges you. I agree. It's like every day. That's me. So by why I stay here, it's like every, you come in and you're comfortable, your work environment, but it's also not the same job every day.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's so there's the variety, but there's the familiar familiarity at the same time. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, that's, and I think that's all trying now our job here we got Devon sitting with us is, is getting that word out there and in trying to for a long time, I think we, we kind of stuck to our guns and had a
00:32:56
Speaker
Word of mouth has been really good for us and it still is. I think word of mouth is our number one recruitment tool, but now it's just getting out and trying to, I think, tell more people about what we're doing and show off that you can have a great career in manufacturing like we've talked about and make a great career out of it and then hopefully work for the company for a long time and then at the end of it, be able to enjoy the nice retirement.
00:33:23
Speaker
I have no regrets about doing it for 40 years. I really don't. That's awesome. And I just wonder how many people can say that. I think that's a good thing. And hopefully we can help build more people like you, Rich. I think that's just about everything. Is there anything else you want to add? No, I'm good. All right. Well, this has been a great episode. I'm trying to get everyone out of the podcast. Some people I need to work on harder than others. But I'm very thankful for you for coming on.
00:33:52
Speaker
Some people suggested you come on and I'm thankful to you for obliging. It was fun. Well, that's good. I tell everyone that you said that. Thanks everyone for listening and we'll catch you on the next episode. Thanks.