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Ep 45: Year of the Yeti with Jeremy Packer
48 Plays5 years ago
Zombie Yeti joins us on this episode and not only do we talk Avengers and Turtles but we also talk about the rest of Zombie Yeti's pinball designed artwork.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Sponsors
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
We are on episode 45.
00:00:09
Speaker
And with me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:13
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:14
Speaker
And Scott, let's talk about our friends of the podcast before we get into our awesome guests this evening.
00:00:18
Speaker
All right.
00:00:19
Speaker
So let's run through it quickly.
00:00:20
Speaker
First off, we have Mike Lund at Beehive Pinball.
00:00:22
Speaker
If you're looking for repro play fields, right now he's doing stars.
00:00:27
Speaker
And so check it out at Beehive Pinball.
00:00:29
Speaker
Next, we have Brad at LitFrame.
00:00:31
Speaker
So if you want to illuminate that awesome trans light, go ahead and check out LitFrames.
00:00:36
Speaker
I have a few of them myself and they make your frame much better when you have the
00:00:44
Speaker
You want to decorate your pinball room, basically.
00:00:47
Speaker
Also, Flyland Designs.
00:00:48
Speaker
I have the alternative, the licensed alternative Medieval Madness in my game, and it provides a fun alternative to the excellent original.
00:00:58
Speaker
He also has Monster Bash and he has Attack from Mars.
00:01:02
Speaker
So go ahead and check those out.
00:01:03
Speaker
And if you want to buy a frame and put them in there, it's a great way of displaying that.
00:01:07
Speaker
Also, this week in pinball, all your pinball needs, please check out this week in pinball and get the rundown on the latest in pinball.
00:01:15
Speaker
Also, last and certainly not least, please check out Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:01:22
Speaker
If you're looking for a new machine, please contact Zach and Nicole and they will help you out.
00:01:28
Speaker
And Josh, who do we have on the podcast today?
Rejecting Challenges and Utah Anecdotes
00:01:30
Speaker
Okay, before we get into our guest, I'm going to hurry and say this up front before I forget.
00:01:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:35
Speaker
Drew and Ian gave us a challenge on their show.
00:01:38
Speaker
If you did not watch Poor Man's Pinball Podcast on Facebook Live on Monday, you can listen to their podcast because they usually release it later.
00:01:46
Speaker
But Drew, thank you for the challenge, but we're going to pass.
00:01:50
Speaker
If you want to hear the stories, we'll message you, but we're not talking about the stories online or on our podcast.
00:01:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker
There's no chance we're going to tell you the weirdest things that happen in Utah.
00:02:03
Speaker
You can just Google them.
00:02:04
Speaker
And by the way, they usually happen every three years that we get national news for some sort of weird thing.
00:02:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:10
Speaker
Like, like my town specifically, there's a gentleman that tried to pay his whole entire bill in pennies because he was mad at the hospital.
00:02:18
Speaker
And so he showed up with a wheelbarrow full of pennies.
00:02:22
Speaker
There's that.
00:02:22
Speaker
So, but that's not the weird you were looking for.
00:02:25
Speaker
So we're not going to discuss that.
00:02:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:27
Speaker
But also
Guest Introduction: Jeremy 'Zombie Yeti' Packard
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Speaker
my, one of my professors in college was actually, he was murdered for his guns and those guys happen to be from Vernal.
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Speaker
So, you know.
00:02:38
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:02:39
Speaker
You've got to remind me.
00:02:40
Speaker
I've got a story to tell you about that.
00:02:43
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:02:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:45
Speaker
We don't have time for that story, but I, you need to remind me.
00:02:48
Speaker
Is it your third cousin on your mother's side?
00:02:51
Speaker
No, no.
00:02:52
Speaker
But it's a little bit of a story, but it is – you'll find it hilarious.
00:02:56
Speaker
Not in the context of what happened.
00:02:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:59
Speaker
Just weird.
00:03:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:01
Speaker
All right.
00:03:01
Speaker
Sounds good.
00:03:02
Speaker
So, all right.
00:03:04
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I'm going to introduce our awesome guest this evening.
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Speaker
This man –
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Speaker
his artwork has redefined what artwork should be in pinball from the last five years.
00:03:15
Speaker
He has set a standard so high, it's hard for others to accomplish.
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And, and he's one of the most, uh, reserved and nicest gentlemen we've met.
00:03:24
Speaker
We have with us Jeremy Packard, AKA zombie Yeti.
00:03:29
Speaker
Oh, well now, come on guys.
00:03:30
Speaker
That, uh, that's a little bit much.
00:03:33
Speaker
Um, uh, hello.
00:03:34
Speaker
We just called as we see it.
00:03:38
Speaker
No, no, that's very kind, but I don't know how honest it is.
00:03:44
Speaker
I thought you guys were a bunch of honest gentlemen, and now you start lying.
00:03:50
Speaker
Hey, no, real quick.
00:03:53
Speaker
So, you know, your little plugs there.
00:03:58
Speaker
Two things.
00:03:59
Speaker
One, did you know that this week in pinball that the Jeff Patterson guy, do you know we went to the same high school?
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Speaker
And his dad, his dad taught some classes.
00:04:12
Speaker
I think it was.
00:04:13
Speaker
I can't remember what.
00:04:14
Speaker
I know he also coached, I think, basketball.
00:04:17
Speaker
But I never I never knew.
00:04:19
Speaker
I never knew him.
00:04:20
Speaker
But like in in school, like I didn't know Jeff.
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Speaker
But it was funny because we talked one time.
00:04:26
Speaker
It's been a couple of years ago and put it together as we were both talking about like our high schools.
00:04:33
Speaker
And it was kind of ironic and strange, to say the least.
00:04:38
Speaker
Sorry, I just had to throw that out there.
00:04:39
Speaker
Right now, the only thing I'm imagining is the coach from the Goldbergs with those, you know, those like weird spandex shorts that all the gym teachers wore in like 1988.
00:04:49
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:04:50
Speaker
No, it's probably not that far off.
00:04:52
Speaker
I remember he had a mustache.
00:04:54
Speaker
That much I remember.
00:04:55
Speaker
His dad.
00:04:56
Speaker
His dad did.
00:04:56
Speaker
He didn't.
00:04:57
Speaker
He didn't.
00:04:57
Speaker
Maybe he did.
00:04:58
Speaker
I don't know.
00:04:59
Speaker
But it's dead.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:00
Speaker
And there was one other plug you had that I had a story about, too.
00:05:03
Speaker
But I forgot about it because I got sidetracked Googling strange things in Utah.
00:05:08
Speaker
So I'm sorry.
00:05:09
Speaker
Oh, man.
00:05:13
Speaker
Well, we had the stars play field.
00:05:15
Speaker
We had the, the lit frames.
00:05:16
Speaker
We had the fly land designs.
00:05:18
Speaker
I mean, come on, flipping out pinball.
00:05:19
Speaker
We have all.
00:05:20
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
Flipping out, flipping out.
00:05:21
Speaker
I just wanted to say, thank
Jeremy's Pinball Art Career Journey
00:05:23
Speaker
you guys.
00:05:24
Speaker
I think Zach and his business need, need a little bit more radio time, podcast time.
00:05:31
Speaker
He doesn't get enough.
00:05:33
Speaker
He doesn't.
00:05:33
Speaker
Hi Zach.
00:05:34
Speaker
How's it going?
00:05:36
Speaker
That man is everywhere.
00:05:37
Speaker
I don't know what he's doing to, to promote himself, but he is doing great.
00:05:43
Speaker
Hardest working man in pinball for promotions, for sure.
00:05:47
Speaker
And the smiliest, too.
00:05:48
Speaker
That guy, he smiles and he makes you smile when he smiles.
00:05:53
Speaker
I agree.
00:05:53
Speaker
Remind me to tell you a story about Zach.
00:05:55
Speaker
No, I'm just kidding.
00:05:58
Speaker
Oh, bring it on.
00:05:58
Speaker
We want to hear it all.
00:06:01
Speaker
No, actually, I do have one, ironically, but we'll save that for later.
00:06:05
Speaker
But no, it's a positive one.
00:06:06
Speaker
It's just one that I don't, you know.
00:06:08
Speaker
Zach doesn't want his bad name tarmonished with good material.
00:06:12
Speaker
Well, no, no, actually, it's he just happened to be there.
00:06:15
Speaker
The story is not really about him.
00:06:19
Speaker
It's because he has a third nipple, isn't it?
00:06:21
Speaker
You know about that?
00:06:23
Speaker
Is yours is yours on your inner elbow like mine is?
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, actually.
00:06:26
Speaker
Well, OK, so legitimately what they do is they follow the same line where your actual nipples are.
00:06:33
Speaker
And it's weird.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, we had someone who we had we had to remove them because she didn't know she had a third nipple until she had a baby and it started lactating.
00:06:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:06:47
Speaker
So it was functional.
00:06:49
Speaker
Well, what they do is they usually look like bumps, like like a mole or something.
00:06:54
Speaker
And so that's that's just why it's funny.
00:06:57
Speaker
Anyway, that's so, you know, all the fun things that you know about extra nipples, you can find them on Loser Kid Bimball podcast.
00:07:06
Speaker
I'm sorry I let us down this direction.
00:07:09
Speaker
I apologize.
00:07:09
Speaker
I got us off track.
00:07:10
Speaker
That's totally fine.
00:07:14
Speaker
So people are calling it Year of the Yeti.
00:07:16
Speaker
I think that's quite flattering because your artwork's been nothing but Stern's project this year, it seems like.
00:07:22
Speaker
And Turtles is fantastic.
00:07:24
Speaker
Avengers is amazing.
00:07:26
Speaker
How are you pulling this off?
00:07:27
Speaker
Is there two of you?
00:07:29
Speaker
No, there's not.
00:07:29
Speaker
I wish there was.
00:07:31
Speaker
So here's the thing.
00:07:33
Speaker
And by the way, since I'm setting it up and I'm using so many words and just sort of protracting what I'm going to say next, you know that I'm lying.
00:07:44
Speaker
There's I've got three more games coming out this year yet.
00:07:47
Speaker
Awesome.
00:07:48
Speaker
We can't wait to see all three of them.
00:07:50
Speaker
No, so just for the record, I don't want to have games come out back-to-back ever.
00:07:59
Speaker
Like, that's not something I want to do.
00:08:01
Speaker
I don't want people to get tired of me.
00:08:04
Speaker
And I also don't want to miss out on so much sleep, because I kind of like it.
00:08:11
Speaker
It helps me.
00:08:13
Speaker
But yeah, no, so...
00:08:17
Speaker
So basically what happened was I was working on Turtles and about halfway into Turtles, into the schedule, I think it might have been July last year or something like that.
00:08:30
Speaker
I was approached about doing Avengers because I had a good relationship with Marvel and, you know, Deadpool has been pretty good and they like that.
00:08:43
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, I definitely want to do it.
00:08:46
Speaker
Can you push it back a little bit so that I can, you know, get it done?
00:08:50
Speaker
And
Artistic Process and Influences
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Speaker
obviously they're like, no.
00:08:51
Speaker
No.
00:08:52
Speaker
We can't do that.
00:08:54
Speaker
And I'm like, well, you know, it was worth a shot.
00:08:56
Speaker
Right.
00:08:57
Speaker
And and so anyway, so we tried to work out like sort of a compromise on the schedule, which which would have put it, I think, I would have started in November or something like that.
00:09:08
Speaker
And they're like, no, we can't do it.
00:09:10
Speaker
I'm like, OK, that's fine.
00:09:11
Speaker
You know, I'd love to, but I understand, you know, whatever.
00:09:14
Speaker
And so I kept going on Turtles.
00:09:16
Speaker
And what happened was over the holidays, I got a call from George Gomez and he was like, listen, you know, like Marvel really wants you to do this.
00:09:26
Speaker
You know, you're winding down on Turtles.
00:09:29
Speaker
I was set to be done by January.
00:09:31
Speaker
on Turtles and and and he's like, you know, they won't they they said no to everyone else that we've tried to get, you know, can you do it?
00:09:41
Speaker
And I'm like, OK, well, that's great.
00:09:44
Speaker
So does that mean we have a longer schedule?
00:09:45
Speaker
And he's like, well, no.
00:09:48
Speaker
We're at the halfway point.
00:09:49
Speaker
So you're going to have a short schedule.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, OK.
00:09:54
Speaker
And I'm like, well, yeah, no, I could.
00:09:57
Speaker
I mean, obviously, I want to do it.
00:09:59
Speaker
It's not going to be an ideal schedule.
00:10:02
Speaker
But yeah, whatever.
00:10:03
Speaker
And so I literally, I think...
00:10:07
Speaker
January 1st started, and I think the first week there, I did the first pro translate sketch, sort of trying to come up with an idea on how to approach this and sort of what direction I was going to go stylistically and everything.
00:10:26
Speaker
I knew I wanted to keep it close to Deadpool, but between you and me, I was still in turtle mode.
00:10:32
Speaker
So I do, I do see that I shouldn't say that out loud, because now people start looking but I see that I like I'm a little softer look than Deadpool.
00:10:41
Speaker
And I think that's sort of from coming off of turtles.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I was still sort of in that whatever it doesn't matter.
00:10:48
Speaker
Bottom line is, the first sketch went to Marvel within that, I think the first week or whatever, and they're like, yes, that's great.
00:10:58
Speaker
Do it.
00:10:59
Speaker
And so then I went straight to inks and color the next week, and it just sort of was like a snowball roll from there.
00:11:06
Speaker
It's like I was just constantly just boom, boom, boom.
00:11:11
Speaker
I didn't have any changes throughout the process.
00:11:16
Speaker
They loved everything, which is great.
00:11:21
Speaker
Between you and me, I wish I would have had a little more time to flesh some things out.
00:11:28
Speaker
In particular, that's why we only have...
00:11:30
Speaker
you know, two different back glass designs, translate designs.
00:11:34
Speaker
And, and that's why there are a few similarities, uh, in two of the cabinet packages.
00:11:41
Speaker
Um, uh, but, uh, I'm sorry, I was clearing my throat there.
00:11:44
Speaker
Right.
00:11:44
Speaker
Uh, but, uh, but, but, you know, I mean, I did the best I could with the time and, and, um,
00:11:50
Speaker
i'm proud of it uh you know obviously i i think uh you know obviously uh keith and and the team's uh game is incredible so being able to be a part of it uh was you know just you know it's i i get lucky um you know i try to i try to pick projects i'm excited for but i think i get lucky uh in regards to um the projects i i do get on so um
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, but you asked me about time.
00:12:20
Speaker
It was, yeah, it was short.
00:12:22
Speaker
I didn't have a lot of time.
00:12:23
Speaker
I think I had, I was done in, I started January 1, finished June, maybe towards the end of June, something like that.
00:12:31
Speaker
And during that time, actually, I had, um...
00:12:34
Speaker
My daughter, my oldest daughter, who is also an illustrator.
00:12:39
Speaker
And by the way, I had her when I was 10 years old.
00:12:43
Speaker
I'm very young.
00:12:46
Speaker
And don't ask.
00:12:48
Speaker
No, no, I'm not that young.
00:12:50
Speaker
I just turned, for the record, I just turned 44.
00:12:53
Speaker
So everyone out there who thinks that I'm young and hip, I'm not.
00:12:59
Speaker
And so I actually had her ink and color, the TMNT topper that I swear we're going to see one of these days during that process.
00:13:11
Speaker
But yeah, I didn't get to have her help me on Avengers, though, unfortunately, because it was just sort of one thing after the other.
00:13:20
Speaker
I didn't really have time to take a break.
00:13:23
Speaker
Well, I think it's a testament to what you do, though, because we've talked to multiple people about Avengers already, and everyone's saying it's the best artwork you've done so far.
00:13:34
Speaker
And I'm biased.
00:13:35
Speaker
That hurts me, but go on.
00:13:38
Speaker
But I'm biased because I love Ninja Turtles.
00:13:41
Speaker
And the artwork was fantastic on this.
00:13:44
Speaker
Like, I was listening to Insider and you said that you had to like rethink how you did artwork for Turtles because the 87 artwork is so different from what's done nowadays.
00:13:54
Speaker
Can you explain a little bit of that process to us so people can maybe understand what you did differently with Turtles than the rest of your projects you've done?
00:14:01
Speaker
For me, I know that I have sort of some proclivities, some things that I will tend to do that, you know, I guess it makes things look like I did them.
00:14:16
Speaker
But at the same time, there's certain things that...
00:14:20
Speaker
I try to accommodate for the license.
00:14:23
Speaker
Like I want, I want to actually serve the project and the license because that's sort of how I was always, you know, trained was to, you know, you, you, you kind of, you interject yourself only when necessary.
00:14:37
Speaker
And I guess over time that just sort of comes out.
00:14:39
Speaker
But, but my point is what happened on, on turtles is when I was trying to sort of get my angle on it and dissect it all,
00:14:47
Speaker
What I found was that one of the most identifiable characteristics or traits of that era of the Turtles, which I grew up on and I love, by the way, was the fact that they were almost primarily curvilinear forms.
00:15:04
Speaker
There were no real hard edges.
00:15:06
Speaker
There weren't angles.
00:15:08
Speaker
And one of the things that's come since is every version of the Turtles becomes more angular to the point where
00:15:13
Speaker
The current version is almost comically so in many ways.
00:15:18
Speaker
It's beautiful, but at the same time, it just, you know,
00:15:24
Speaker
to take the essence of what the 87 Turtles was, that was one of the most identifiable things.
00:15:29
Speaker
And for me, I do use a lot of angles.
00:15:33
Speaker
I try to use a lot of, you know, curves and angles to sort of contrast.
00:15:40
Speaker
But in this case, I had to kind of, I guess, soften my hand a bit.
00:15:45
Speaker
And that was...
00:15:46
Speaker
kind of difficult, believe it or not.
00:15:48
Speaker
It was kind of challenging.
00:15:50
Speaker
And so when you say that, you know, people are saying Avengers is, you know, the best work, you know, I'm sort of joking there.
00:15:58
Speaker
But at the same time, what probably people are seeing is maybe a little bit of comfort having worked for over a year straight back to back on those two projects.
00:16:12
Speaker
um that I I kind of I guess was uh the wheels were quite greased by the time I got there because I had been working you know on on turtles and and I actually I put a lot of a lot of extra time into um turtles early on before it even kicked into high gear um just so that I could kind of find my way um and and probably to to uh to to the detriment of it actually no I'm just kidding but
00:16:37
Speaker
Okay, so I want to know, I actually grew up, I am just slightly older than you at two years, and I grew up on the iconic images of Iron Maiden, and I was actually a big fan of the band in the 80s.
00:16:53
Speaker
And in your mind, you have that Derek Riggs type.
00:16:58
Speaker
Now, Derek Riggs, he really wasn't a trained artist, but he had an image that really worked with the band.
00:17:05
Speaker
So my question was, how did you actually take that and to...
00:17:09
Speaker
reimagine it while keeping it true to the original art style?
00:17:14
Speaker
Because it's always hard as an artist when you are trying to, I guess, pay homage to a to a certain style without just being a cut and paste.
00:17:25
Speaker
Oh, that's an easy answer.
00:17:27
Speaker
I'm joking.
00:17:27
Speaker
That's a lot.
00:17:29
Speaker
No, I. Well, so first off, it involves a lot of of.
00:17:38
Speaker
making myself miserable, second guessing every decision I make.
00:17:43
Speaker
That's really the secret to all of my success is I am very neurotic and I have a tremendously difficult time liking anything I do until I've gotten very far away from it.
00:17:59
Speaker
Iron Maiden is a great example of that.
00:18:02
Speaker
I knew everyone wanted Derek Riggs on there.
00:18:05
Speaker
I wanted Derek Riggs on there.
00:18:07
Speaker
But I'm not Derek Riggs.
00:18:09
Speaker
I don't do things like Derek Riggs.
00:18:13
Speaker
And I knew that I couldn't imitate him.
00:18:17
Speaker
I really couldn't.
00:18:18
Speaker
So I tried to distill as much of that inspiration as I could.
00:18:25
Speaker
Obviously, whenever...
00:18:27
Speaker
It was called upon to to actually reference directly something he had done.
00:18:34
Speaker
It made my life a little bit easier, but I still stressed and, you know, would fret over, you know, if I was even coming close to approaching it correctly.
00:18:46
Speaker
And so what sort of happened was, I just kept moving and obsessing as I went.
00:18:56
Speaker
And if they approved it, I thought, okay, maybe I'm not failing.
00:19:01
Speaker
How's that?
00:19:01
Speaker
Is that a terrible answer?
00:19:03
Speaker
No, that's awesome.
00:19:06
Speaker
I tried, I try really hard.
00:19:07
Speaker
That's it.
00:19:08
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if I, if I succeed often enough, but I try really hard and, and I hope I, you know, the key is working with Keith is Keith is a very low key, quiet guy.
00:19:21
Speaker
Right.
00:19:22
Speaker
And, and so he doesn't give me a lot of feedback.
00:19:27
Speaker
And so I assume he hates everything until it's done and, and it's in production.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:35
Speaker
I'm joking, of course, Keith.
00:19:38
Speaker
I'm not joking entirely.
00:19:39
Speaker
It's sort of true.
00:19:42
Speaker
Well, I do love the pro back glass and that that had to have been amazingly difficult that you were able to get so many versions of Eddie and just be able to get them all together.
00:19:54
Speaker
You know what the hardest part of that was actually was deciding where to take it in color because actually getting them composed into a space isn't as difficult, but actually being able to take in color and, and push and pull those spaces out.
00:20:14
Speaker
uh, is, is a little bit more difficult, um, at least to do it, I guess, in a dynamic way.
00:20:19
Speaker
And that's, that's, so I sort of, uh, between, between just between us, no one's listening, right?
00:20:25
Speaker
Um, I, I, I sort of exist in three spaces at any given time.
00:20:31
Speaker
Either I'm in concept phase where I'm sketching.
00:20:34
Speaker
Um, I'm in, uh, ink phase where I'm sort of, you know, kind of solidifying forms, uh, or I'm in color phase.
00:20:42
Speaker
Um,
00:20:43
Speaker
And I do all of those sort of in order.
00:20:49
Speaker
And when I say that, I'm not talking per piece.
00:20:51
Speaker
I'm talking about the entire project.
00:20:52
Speaker
I'll do every pencil, every sketch up front, get it approved.
00:20:57
Speaker
I'll then move to ink, and then I'll then move to color at the end, obviously.
00:21:03
Speaker
So
Pinball Design Philosophies and Challenges
00:21:04
Speaker
there's a little bit of a...
00:21:06
Speaker
The stress, it comes back in every phase.
00:21:11
Speaker
So coming up with ideas, and I'm in that phase now on a project, you know, coming up with ideas in the sketch phase is just it's, you know, I'm paralyzed by fear.
00:21:23
Speaker
Coming up with good ideas makes me want to vomit.
00:21:27
Speaker
I'm coming up with great ideas.
00:21:29
Speaker
I don't think it's possible, but I'm hoping to fake it.
00:21:32
Speaker
And then people will go, I guess that's good.
00:21:34
Speaker
Let's move with that.
00:21:36
Speaker
But then I'm going to revisit all that all that fear again once I get to the next phase and the phase after.
00:21:41
Speaker
So, again, I make myself miserable until the end.
00:21:46
Speaker
And then hopefully people don't hate it.
00:21:48
Speaker
Iron Maiden, I said throughout was going to be the last pinball machine I ever worked on.
00:21:54
Speaker
I said, people are going to hate this.
00:21:56
Speaker
They're going to say, this is not Derek Riggs.
00:21:58
Speaker
And that was going to be it.
00:21:59
Speaker
And I remember telling Greg that almost every day and Keith every time I saw him.
00:22:04
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, this is it for me.
00:22:08
Speaker
So so thankfully, no, thanks to everyone who bought, played and supports that project because I'm still here.
00:22:18
Speaker
No, so I love the premium because that is kind of the zenith of their popularity with that.
00:22:23
Speaker
But I would also like to have the pro translate to go in and out just because I think it was such a good job.
00:22:33
Speaker
Now, another question, too, is it seems like you have...
00:22:38
Speaker
in the 90s, late 80s, early 90s, there was a big resurgence of comic book artists and there were some really well-known ones.
00:22:47
Speaker
You know, there's Jim Lee, Wilts Potasio, Rob Liefeld, who did Deadpool.
00:22:53
Speaker
There were all these and Todd McFarland.
00:22:56
Speaker
There are all these known artists.
00:22:58
Speaker
Were you a big comic book fan back in the day?
00:23:01
Speaker
And did you ever think about doing comics yourself?
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
No, I was a huge comic book guy.
00:23:08
Speaker
Like, I grew up, like, my dad had Fantastic Four and Avengers comics from, like, the 60s and stuff.
00:23:16
Speaker
And I remember my grandparents, they were always at my grandparents' house.
00:23:20
Speaker
So every time I'd go, I'd, you know, I'd read those and
00:23:23
Speaker
And and then I started actually using my allowance, which I started earning when I was old enough to apparently be useful.
00:23:32
Speaker
And and every week I would go and pick up comics.
00:23:36
Speaker
And I started with like they were doing a classic Spider-Man, classic X-Men, you know, stuff.
00:23:43
Speaker
And then I started getting into the new books.
00:23:45
Speaker
And this was probably I mean, I was in elementary school at that point.
00:23:49
Speaker
By the time I was in like, what, maybe eighth grade, seventh grade and something like that.
00:23:54
Speaker
I think it was about the time Todd McFarlane started his run on Amazing Spider-Man.
00:24:00
Speaker
And that was sort of revelatory to me because of the fact that, you know, I had been, you know, reading.
00:24:07
Speaker
I should also say at the same time I was a DC guy as well.
00:24:10
Speaker
I read.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:12
Speaker
Batman and all of the sort of classical tones and style of drawing and ink work was sort of thrown out the window when Todd McFarlane came in.
00:24:27
Speaker
And so that was sort of a huge thing.
00:24:29
Speaker
He was a little more cartoony, but the one thing he did that obviously I've always appreciated was he was very good at solid...
00:24:39
Speaker
dimensional forms in space.
00:24:41
Speaker
Like, like he, he could draw things, whether or not, you know, they, you could, you can make some arguments and now looking back on it it's not nearly as clean as what I remember, but, but it was, he just, yeah, he blew me away.
00:24:56
Speaker
He was one of the first ones to make a mark, you know, in a big way followed by Norm Bray Fogle.
00:25:07
Speaker
who is not as well known.
00:25:08
Speaker
And actually he, he passed away.
00:25:11
Speaker
Oh boy.
00:25:11
Speaker
It's probably within the last 10 years now.
00:25:15
Speaker
But he had, he had been doing detective comics during, you know, probably, I don't know.
00:25:21
Speaker
I was maybe again, eighth grade, freshman year or something like that.
00:25:25
Speaker
And his, uh,
00:25:28
Speaker
Again, very similar styles, tones that he would hit, like McFarlane, but different.
00:25:39
Speaker
And actually, I would say I probably have more influence from Bray Fogle's short run...
00:25:45
Speaker
than anything else.
00:25:46
Speaker
And I just kind of discovered that recently as I was looking through some stuff of his.
00:25:54
Speaker
I didn't really know he had that big of an influence on me.
00:25:57
Speaker
But yes, obviously, and, you know, Jim Lee, Liefeld, obviously I was around the early days of Deadpool, stuff like that.
00:26:07
Speaker
I fell off for a little while, about the time that
00:26:11
Speaker
I got my license and could actually go on dates.
00:26:16
Speaker
I also stopped playing video games there for a while about the same time until I learned to juggle and then it all came back shortly thereafter.
00:26:27
Speaker
But yeah, no, I was very influenced by comics and still am.
00:26:31
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of amazing guys out there that make me feel very untalented.
00:26:38
Speaker
Well, I want to issue just a quick apology, not only to you, but to Keith.
00:26:42
Speaker
On our episode two episodes or three episodes ago, we had Martin and Jeff, or Martin Robbins and Jeff Teolos to file around on.
00:26:48
Speaker
And one of my criticisms were I didn't fully understand where the artwork was coming from because the Infinity War that we know from 1993, Thanos is the one collecting the gems.
00:26:59
Speaker
And I said, there's no Adam Warlock or Silver Surfer on here.
00:27:03
Speaker
And Joe Lemire actually messaged me from Pinball Players Podcast, and he sent me a picture of the lower play field.
00:27:11
Speaker
And right there above all the Avengers, smack dab in the middle, is Adam Warlock's head.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yes, but not the version.
00:27:20
Speaker
So that's a weird thing, too.
00:27:22
Speaker
And you can blame me for this.
00:27:26
Speaker
But talking with Marvel, one of the things they said was, listen, you can pull from any era as long as they're all from the same era, right?
00:27:39
Speaker
But I kind of broke that a little bit.
00:27:41
Speaker
And I probably shouldn't even say this now, but I kind of broke that a little bit.
00:27:45
Speaker
And the biggest throwback where I broke that, because I kind of tried to stay with the more modern interpretations, but sort of with a more, I guess, a little bit throwback style to it.
00:27:59
Speaker
But but Thanos, actually, I tried to stay as close as I could to the Starlin era stuff, you know, but but whatever.
00:28:09
Speaker
I mean, I don't I don't know as long as people don't hate it.
00:28:15
Speaker
That's all that.
00:28:17
Speaker
Dude, everyone loves us.
00:28:18
Speaker
I tried really hard.
00:28:20
Speaker
I have, there is no complaints with any of this, at least from what I've heard.
00:28:23
Speaker
And we hear a lot, like for some odd reason, we get a lot of messages, but it's wonderful artwork.
00:28:29
Speaker
I was just confused of where the storyline was coming from because I know that the 93 doesn't have the black order in it, but like more of the 2012 stuff does.
00:28:37
Speaker
And so I was confused where the storyline was coming from, or if it was more like Jurassic park where it's kind of like the, the own adventure kind of thing.
00:28:45
Speaker
Well, I think that's sort of the way it went.
00:28:49
Speaker
Keep in mind, because I came in so late, and it had been kind of delayed because of the lack of having an artist on, that they were building the game, they were coming up with all this stuff, but some of the more solidified story notes were still not there.
00:29:09
Speaker
when I came in, like they were, but they weren't like, they were still trying to figure out some things.
00:29:14
Speaker
And maybe I'm wrong, by the way, Keith, Keith can correct me on this one.
00:29:17
Speaker
But, but so I sort of, uh, was putting things together in the space that I could based on what I knew, uh, and what I didn't know.
00:29:28
Speaker
And, and it all sort of, you know, so, so for instance, Adam Warlock, um,
00:29:34
Speaker
you know, does he have a big role in the game itself?
00:29:41
Speaker
I, you know, I guess I should say by comparison to the original comic run that, you know, was sort of, I was pulling from.
00:29:51
Speaker
It's not quite the same.
00:29:53
Speaker
So I would say it's probably more of an original take based off of lots of different pieces and era.
00:30:00
Speaker
I just wanted to pay tribute
00:30:02
Speaker
Every place that I could.
00:30:03
Speaker
I mean, and by the way, if I could have drawn the silver surfer, if we could have used him, I better believe I would have done that.
00:30:11
Speaker
But I don't think he was he was in our wheelhouse for this one.
00:30:15
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:30:15
Speaker
Were there limitations?
00:30:16
Speaker
Because I noticed there's no X-Men or X-Men.
00:30:19
Speaker
Yes, is either.
00:30:20
Speaker
Yeah, well, so the way it works is, and again, I'm not the licensing guy.
00:30:24
Speaker
I don't know this stuff, but I can tell you this much.
00:30:26
Speaker
I do know after working on Deadpool and working on this, there are distinctions.
00:30:31
Speaker
There's lines drawn in the sand.
00:30:33
Speaker
Like the X-Men are a different license, right?
00:30:37
Speaker
Spider-Man is his own license.
00:30:39
Speaker
So like there's some areas that don't cross over, I guess, is maybe the way to look at it.
00:30:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:45
Speaker
But anyway, again, I could be wrong on that too, but that's...
00:30:49
Speaker
Based on looking at style guides and things like that, I'm pretty sure I'm not.
00:30:53
Speaker
Well, you're right, actually.
00:30:55
Speaker
In the late 90s, Marvel was really hurting for money, and so they sold off all these movie licenses and other things that are going on to it.
00:31:03
Speaker
And that's the reason why Fantastic Four went one way, X-Men went one way, Spider-Man went one way.
00:31:09
Speaker
And really, the reason why we have the whole Avengers series in the movies is because they sold off all their A-list licenses
00:31:19
Speaker
superheroes.
00:31:20
Speaker
And so really the Avengers was kind of a B list.
00:31:23
Speaker
It was like the and also list.
00:31:26
Speaker
And so they were able to create this great storyline using Iron Man, which was really the
00:31:32
Speaker
You know, it's Marvel's equivalent of Batman, really.
00:31:35
Speaker
Well, I agree with you, by the way, wholeheartedly, because between you and me and keep in mind, I'm somebody who loved comics.
00:31:44
Speaker
Iron Man was the least interesting character in the comics when I was reading.
00:31:51
Speaker
I did not enjoy him.
00:31:54
Speaker
What Robert Downey Jr. and the writers did with that role to make him like the coolest guy in the room.
00:32:02
Speaker
You know, you got to eat those guys deserve all the money they get.
00:32:07
Speaker
He was not he was not a favorite of mine.
00:32:09
Speaker
And now now he absolutely is.
00:32:12
Speaker
Well, it's funny too, is Happy, so you know Happy from the movies, he directed the very first Iron Man and he fought and fought to get Robert Downey Jr. in that role because he said, this is your Iron Man, this is the man.
00:32:24
Speaker
And it's funny that he fought so hard to get him and he finally got him and look where they are now.
00:32:29
Speaker
I mean, I guarantee if it wasn't for Robert Downey Jr., they would not be where they are in the Marvel Cinematic Universe because look at how incredible Hulk did not even six months later.
00:32:39
Speaker
Agreed.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:32:40
Speaker
I totally agree.
00:32:43
Speaker
All the casting is fantastic, except for that Hawkeye guy.
00:32:46
Speaker
That's right.
00:32:46
Speaker
I'm calling you out.
00:32:48
Speaker
I'm calling you out.
00:32:51
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:32:51
Speaker
I'm joking.
00:32:53
Speaker
But let's be honest.
00:32:54
Speaker
No, I'm joking.
00:32:55
Speaker
He's great.
00:32:55
Speaker
He's great.
00:32:56
Speaker
He's an avid listener to the podcast.
00:32:58
Speaker
So you might get some heat after this.
00:33:00
Speaker
I know.
00:33:01
Speaker
I know.
00:33:01
Speaker
And we're good friends, you know, being Jeremy's.
00:33:05
Speaker
And so I give I just rib him a little bit.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:09
Speaker
Do you know he bit his kid?
00:33:11
Speaker
Anyway, I don't know.
00:33:12
Speaker
I read things online.
00:33:15
Speaker
You know, if it's on the internet, it's true, right?
00:33:17
Speaker
Look up Jeremy Renner bit his kid.
00:33:19
Speaker
And maybe I'm wrong, but I think I read that somewhere.
00:33:23
Speaker
I'll have to check that out.
00:33:24
Speaker
That is hilarious.
00:33:26
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:33:28
Speaker
Sorry.
00:33:28
Speaker
I know a lot of things that are not important to life, but go on.
00:33:32
Speaker
I know exactly where you're coming from.
00:33:34
Speaker
I'm the exact same way.
00:33:37
Speaker
Well, I want to talk about one thing, and this is when I knew you were legit.
00:33:41
Speaker
And I'm not a huge... Okay, let me put it this way.
00:33:45
Speaker
I enjoy Primus music.
00:33:47
Speaker
I'm not an in-depth fan, but I know some of their history.
00:33:51
Speaker
And so when I saw the Primus play field and everything that went into that, I mean, that is passion on artwork.
00:34:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:01
Speaker
You can fake it till the cows come home with artwork.
00:34:04
Speaker
You can draw just whatever the person wants you to draw, but there's a difference between that and oozing passion.
00:34:10
Speaker
I think that's what people appreciate about each project you do.
00:34:13
Speaker
It oozes passion.
00:34:14
Speaker
Like with turtles,
00:34:18
Speaker
I can tell that you're a fan of turtles because of the stuff that is in there.
00:34:22
Speaker
And it's just, I think that's where the appreciation comes from your artwork.
00:34:26
Speaker
Is that, is that one of the other reasons you try to pick projects that you're more familiar with than others?
00:34:32
Speaker
Oh, well, yeah.
00:34:33
Speaker
I mean, and I appreciate that, by the way, and I'm glad that it shows.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, I won't do a project.
00:34:41
Speaker
Listen, I've turned down a lot of projects.
00:34:44
Speaker
As a matter of fact, I don't know if I've said this one before out loud, but I turned down doing the Star Wars comic version.
00:34:53
Speaker
And it's not because I don't love Star Wars.
00:34:56
Speaker
But it's because I knew I couldn't add anything to it.
00:34:59
Speaker
It also intimidated me greatly.
00:35:02
Speaker
But but I go, you know, I don't know that I can do anything in that space.
00:35:07
Speaker
Those people have
Education and Work Ethic in Pinball Art
00:35:08
Speaker
to look exactly like they look and there's not anything that can really deviate.
00:35:15
Speaker
And maybe I'm a chicken, but whatever.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:18
Speaker
But, but, but my point is, you know, I look at a project when I, you know, when it comes to me and I go, okay, is there, is there a challenge here?
00:35:27
Speaker
Is it something that I love and can completely understand and try to, I guess, boil down into some sort of, you know, pure form and figure out what to go, whatever the hell.
00:35:42
Speaker
Yeah, I, I, I will not work on anything unless I think I can bring something to it.
00:35:48
Speaker
And so that does mean that, yeah, I, I, I look for things that excite me and challenge me because at the end of the day, uh,
00:35:57
Speaker
whatever the last thing was that I did is pretty much going to determine if I get to do another thing.
00:36:04
Speaker
So I kind of look at every project like it's the last project I'm doing.
00:36:09
Speaker
Now, that's mentally not healthy.
00:36:13
Speaker
It's a bit draining even.
00:36:15
Speaker
But for whatever reason, it keeps me honest and keeps me trying.
00:36:22
Speaker
I don't ever want to phone anything in.
00:36:24
Speaker
And so like, you know, you bring up Primus and, you know, talk about a short schedule.
00:36:31
Speaker
I had, I think, five weeks, maybe maybe six total, but with sketching, but to do that entire cabinets, back glass and, you know, play field.
00:36:45
Speaker
And this goes with Avengers 2, not in that time frame.
00:36:50
Speaker
I always say, okay, I can make concessions on the cabinets.
00:36:55
Speaker
I really can't make too many concessions on the back glass because that's the thing that's going to draw someone over from the other side of the room.
00:37:03
Speaker
But I absolutely refuse and will not make concessions on the play field.
00:37:09
Speaker
Um, that's the place that people are going to be staring at, uh, hopefully for years and years.
00:37:14
Speaker
And so that's the place where you got to put focus.
00:37:16
Speaker
And by the way, I shouldn't take credit for that.
00:37:19
Speaker
Um, uh, I, I, I, I got to give that credit to, to Greg Ferris, um, for instilling that in me, uh, from, from the, the early, early days, uh, Ghostbusters.
00:37:31
Speaker
Um, you know, so, so yeah, uh, I,
00:37:35
Speaker
It's something that it's never easy.
00:37:39
Speaker
No project is easy.
00:37:41
Speaker
But if you are excited about it, it mitigates that unease, if that means anything.
00:37:49
Speaker
You're telling me pinball's not easy?
00:37:54
Speaker
Sorry.
00:37:54
Speaker
And we'll move on.
00:38:00
Speaker
I will say, though, that I bought the limited edition because it had everything that you did, including the mirror back glass.
00:38:08
Speaker
I wanted the the inside art blades.
00:38:11
Speaker
that were done by you.
00:38:13
Speaker
And so that really helped out.
00:38:14
Speaker
And also the same thing with turtles.
00:38:16
Speaker
I did like the limited edition art blades in there, but because that goes to limited edition, I got a premium.
00:38:23
Speaker
I got the premium ones, which I think are perfect because they do blend with the theme perfectly.
00:38:29
Speaker
And so art really does elevate what I'm buying to an extra level.
00:38:36
Speaker
And so I appreciate what you're doing because it does show.
00:38:40
Speaker
Well, listen, that was my, and I won't get into the past past, but that was my goal early on was I go, how much did these things cost?
00:38:55
Speaker
And I go, geez, man, if I was paying that much money for something, it better look like it.
00:39:01
Speaker
And so, you know, as an artist, because keep in mind, when I first started working
00:39:07
Speaker
legitimately doing pinball work or maybe illegitimately.
00:39:14
Speaker
I joke, but it's a joke.
00:39:20
Speaker
You know, it was like 2011 and I literally had just been doing illustration for a year at that point.
00:39:27
Speaker
I had not done anything for like 10 years.
00:39:29
Speaker
I hadn't picked up a pencil.
00:39:31
Speaker
I had been working in the realm of design and creating web-based products, things like that.
00:39:40
Speaker
And so I sort of had this new ignorance in, I guess, how to value my work and how to value my time.
00:39:52
Speaker
And so when I was approached way back when by he who shall not be named,
00:39:58
Speaker
Um, I, I'm joking.
00:39:59
Speaker
Uh, uh, by the way, hi, John.
00:40:02
Speaker
Um, uh, I, uh, I, uh, uh, I, I put everything into it.
00:40:08
Speaker
Like, I, I'm like, you know what, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this.
00:40:11
Speaker
I want this to succeed.
00:40:12
Speaker
I want this, you know, this is perhaps my opportunity.
00:40:19
Speaker
And so I, you know, I made my life terrible and I continue to do it to this day with a smile and only occasionally a tired, weepy frown.
00:40:32
Speaker
I'm sorry, that's a joke.
00:40:35
Speaker
I'm always happy.
00:40:38
Speaker
Sure,
Evolution and Impact of Pinball Artwork
00:40:39
Speaker
absolutely.
00:40:41
Speaker
And again, I have no idea.
00:40:42
Speaker
I don't even know what the question was anymore.
00:40:44
Speaker
No, I'm sorry.
00:40:45
Speaker
No, I mean, yeah.
00:40:47
Speaker
Okay, so if you had your ideal, you know, in zombie Yeti land, when you're like, you know what, this would be my ideal timeline from start to finish, what I would have for a project, a pinball machine, what would you say is your comfort level?
00:41:05
Speaker
Okay, so I am going to be absolutely honest here.
00:41:09
Speaker
I don't think I should ever dictate that.
00:41:14
Speaker
And I'll tell you why.
00:41:16
Speaker
Twofold.
00:41:17
Speaker
One, part of what makes the project what it is in the end is a little bit of the chaos.
00:41:24
Speaker
And a little bit of that unknown throughout keeps you on your toes.
00:41:33
Speaker
And so for me, as much as I could say, you know, so I'll give you an example.
00:41:38
Speaker
So I figured, I actually, I figured this out the other day and I'm not gonna, I won't give exact numbers, but roughly, roughly, you know, per piece, you know, I think, you know,
00:41:53
Speaker
in my you know what i'm not gonna say it i'm not gonna say it because i i don't want to i don't want to give too much of it but um in a perfect world i would have weekends off how's that um but i don't because i want to take that time when i know everyone else is off to refine and refine so um the schedule's fine i'm the problem
00:42:17
Speaker
Well, it's hard to walk away when it's it's the same thing as taking a class in college.
00:42:21
Speaker
If you take if you take one class, you're going to spend a certain amount of time in a week on that one class.
00:42:27
Speaker
Or if you take five classes, you're going to spend the same amount of time, but you're going to diversify it just because however you personally are wired, that's the amount of effort you're going to put into it.
00:42:36
Speaker
So if you have three projects going simultaneously, you're going to spend the same amount of time just divided between the projects.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and it's interesting because I went to, first off, what's interesting is I was a very lazy kid, super lazy.
00:42:52
Speaker
I was encouraged to be lazy.
00:42:54
Speaker
My dad started working a full time.
00:42:56
Speaker
He was a family of six.
00:42:57
Speaker
So he started working a full time job literally while he was in high school.
00:43:03
Speaker
He would work till midnight, one o'clock on school nights.
00:43:07
Speaker
Right.
00:43:08
Speaker
And that's because there were so many kids.
00:43:10
Speaker
If he wanted anything, he had to make his own money anyway.
00:43:13
Speaker
So he always told me, he's like, listen, enjoy being a kid as long as you want.
00:43:17
Speaker
He's like, don't don't push it.
00:43:19
Speaker
And so he would actually, you know, give me in the summers, he would give me an allowance to be able to go do things with friends and stuff like that.
00:43:30
Speaker
And so he basically trained me to be lazy.
00:43:32
Speaker
But I also watched him and how he worked.
00:43:36
Speaker
And he's a very hard worker.
00:43:38
Speaker
And so I got a work ethic.
00:43:41
Speaker
I just didn't have anything to apply it to.
00:43:43
Speaker
And so then I get to college and I went to the Columbus College of Art and Design, which is in Columbus, Ohio.
00:43:50
Speaker
Can you believe that?
00:43:51
Speaker
It's so cool that those names line up.
00:43:54
Speaker
It's it's not too far from Ohio State.
00:43:56
Speaker
They named the city after the college, right?
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, they did.
00:43:59
Speaker
They did.
00:44:00
Speaker
After the fact.
00:44:02
Speaker
And it was known at that time that I went as being the second most rigorous curriculum to Princeton.
00:44:10
Speaker
Now, that's what they said.
00:44:12
Speaker
I'm like, how would they possibly even put you?
00:44:14
Speaker
Like, no one's going to whatever.
00:44:16
Speaker
That was part of their marketing.
00:44:17
Speaker
And I'm like, who would want to go here?
00:44:19
Speaker
But whatever.
00:44:19
Speaker
I went anyway.
00:44:20
Speaker
They gave me a lot of money.
00:44:21
Speaker
I went.
00:44:22
Speaker
And so they actually had it structured where to be a full time student, you had to have at least 18 credit hours.
00:44:34
Speaker
And and there that was a lot of classes.
00:44:38
Speaker
I mean, I literally was in class at least eight hours a day and every class expected you to.
00:44:47
Speaker
to be only paying attention to their class and putting all of your time for whatever the next days, weeks, whatever, into that class, right?
00:44:55
Speaker
And so if it was a painting class or a sculpture class, whatever, they expected you to always be only working on their work, even though they know that's not possible, right?
00:45:06
Speaker
And so that trained me and really made me ready for pinball in the fact that you have to figure out how to maximize your time in every possible, you know, whether it be, I guess, anatomy, whether it be, you know, structural drawing, perspective, things like that.
00:45:30
Speaker
Like you sort of had to...
00:45:34
Speaker
figure out how to do the impossible and not go crazy.
00:45:39
Speaker
And so I managed to graduate, by the way, which every year I was like, I'm done.
00:45:47
Speaker
This is it.
00:45:47
Speaker
I'm done.
00:45:48
Speaker
I can't do this anymore.
00:45:49
Speaker
This is driving me crazy.
00:45:52
Speaker
And I think that helped tremendously.
00:45:54
Speaker
As a matter of fact, there's actually a
00:45:57
Speaker
an artist who is, I think, working on a project right now.
00:46:01
Speaker
And Greg Ferreris had run him by me.
00:46:04
Speaker
And I was looking through his credentials and it said he graduated from, you know, Columbus College of Art and Design.
00:46:11
Speaker
And I said, I think he can do it.
00:46:12
Speaker
I'm like, I'm positive this guy can at least get the work done.
00:46:16
Speaker
And his portfolio was great too.
00:46:18
Speaker
So maybe someday when you see that, I can go, hey, look, he was also from CCAD.
00:46:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:25
Speaker
But but whatever.
00:46:26
Speaker
I mean, I at the time I cursed it.
00:46:29
Speaker
Now I understand.
00:46:31
Speaker
You know, they were basically telling you, like, if you really want to do this job, if you want to be an artist and actually work and make money, you don't get to rest.
00:46:42
Speaker
And it's true.
00:46:43
Speaker
I mean, it's probably true of many jobs, by the way, but it's the only one I know right now.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah, I wasn't that motivated of a kid either.
00:46:50
Speaker
And there's a lot of jobs where I think, well, I did a really crappy job.
00:46:54
Speaker
But yeah, at some point in your career, you have to decide, I'm going to put my effort into this to make it worth it.
00:47:03
Speaker
But yeah, you're absolutely right.
00:47:06
Speaker
There really aren't 40-hour-a-week jobs for a lot of people because if you're doing your own stuff, then there's never end.
00:47:14
Speaker
The clock doesn't end.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:47:16
Speaker
Exactly.
00:47:17
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, and there comes a point in time where you go, OK, I've got to be an adult now.
00:47:25
Speaker
Right.
00:47:26
Speaker
The one thing that people have pointed out, and I don't know if you can speak to this or not.
00:47:31
Speaker
Why is there so much yellow?
00:47:34
Speaker
Well, first off, it's well, first off, it's not just yellow.
00:47:38
Speaker
At least if you're talking about the trim on Avengers.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:45
Speaker
It's actually, it's a spark.
00:47:46
Speaker
There's a sparkle in there that this does not pick up on.
00:47:50
Speaker
It's because Thanos.
00:47:51
Speaker
So Thanos, especially back in the Starlin original sort of Infinity storyline.
00:48:00
Speaker
Uh, it basically, and this was kind of a joke all throughout to me.
00:48:05
Speaker
Um, I laughed at it and kept making it and no one responded.
00:48:09
Speaker
No, I'm joking.
00:48:10
Speaker
I think they, I think a few people left, but, but he essentially, he always looked like he was wearing a big dish glove to me.
00:48:16
Speaker
Um, I embrace that personally.
00:48:19
Speaker
Uh, I like that he didn't, he wasn't wearing gold back then.
00:48:22
Speaker
Now he might've been, but you got to keep in mind the way they colored things back then, they didn't have digital color and they, they, it was more, uh, that the offset was more, it was closer to a, uh, a palette for say a silkscreen poster where like, maybe they're going to have, you know, like maybe five different colors and they can make some blends and, and, you know,
00:48:43
Speaker
value from sort of bringing opacity into it a bit.
00:48:49
Speaker
But, you know, they really didn't have it.
00:48:52
Speaker
So yellow, they never had gold.
00:48:54
Speaker
It was always yellow.
00:48:56
Speaker
And so that was, you can blame me for that.
00:48:59
Speaker
I thought it was absolutely stunning and striking.
00:49:02
Speaker
And I just came off Turtles and I go, I don't want anything...
00:49:06
Speaker
to look like any game I've done before.
00:49:09
Speaker
Like every, every time I do a game, I want to make sure they can sit by each other and people don't see them blend together.
00:49:14
Speaker
I want to see them, you know, and by the way, that's selfish because I know that I'm going to have my games.
00:49:21
Speaker
But so, so that's, yeah, that's my fault.
00:49:24
Speaker
Blame me.
00:49:26
Speaker
We'll blame you a hundred percent.
00:49:27
Speaker
It looks good though.
00:49:28
Speaker
Like,
00:49:28
Speaker
Like Scott convinced me because at first I think all of us were like, what's with the yellow?
00:49:32
Speaker
The gold is awesome.
00:49:33
Speaker
What's wrong with you?
00:49:34
Speaker
It's like sparkly.
00:49:35
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:49:36
Speaker
When you get close to it, yeah, it's much better than what – and I think this is true of all Stern machines but especially selfishly my machines.
00:49:46
Speaker
They look –
00:49:47
Speaker
completely different in the real world space than in photographs.
00:49:52
Speaker
Like it's very hard.
00:49:55
Speaker
Even just dimensionally, like you never see a pinball machine sort of at this orthographic three quarter view or what, you know what I mean?
00:50:04
Speaker
Like it's, it's, it's just a different experience.
00:50:07
Speaker
So, and I try to build things and approach it knowing how they're actually going to be seen.
00:50:12
Speaker
Like I don't, I don't make arbitrary choices.
00:50:16
Speaker
Put it that way.
00:50:18
Speaker
But I'm also not saying I make all the right choices either.
00:50:22
Speaker
Like I said, I question everything I do.
00:50:25
Speaker
And if somebody hasn't told me to change something, well, by God, it's going to be there.
00:50:30
Speaker
Well, I know with Iron Maiden came out that a lot of people were wondering about the, I guess, the green and red combination.
00:50:36
Speaker
And the funny thing is everybody who owned the game or saw it up close, they said, it's absolutely the right combination.
00:50:43
Speaker
It just doesn't get picked up very well in the pictures.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:50:48
Speaker
And you know, what's funny about that too is I've heard, and I don't know the validity of this, but I've actually heard that some of the...
00:50:57
Speaker
Some of the colors for trim have been diminished based on the type of materials that have been being used.
00:51:08
Speaker
And I don't know the whole story there, but I believe there was like maybe it's like the equivalent of, you know, like cadmiums, maybe like there's there's metals and I don't know, whatever.
00:51:17
Speaker
But but there's like wherever it is.
00:51:19
Speaker
I know that we had limitations on Avengers where there were certain things.
00:51:23
Speaker
colors that were knocked out of the running.
00:51:25
Speaker
We couldn't have them.
00:51:26
Speaker
And maybe it had to do with COVID.
00:51:27
Speaker
I don't know.
00:51:29
Speaker
Because I really wanted a COVID green.
00:51:32
Speaker
Anyway, that's a terrible joke.
00:51:36
Speaker
I feel instantly regrettable for saying that.
00:51:40
Speaker
But so that limited things a bit.
00:51:44
Speaker
And so, you know, whatever.
00:51:46
Speaker
I'm not making an excuse.
00:51:47
Speaker
I'm just saying that, you know, that does exist.
00:51:49
Speaker
That's reality.
00:51:51
Speaker
Well, and I think it gives a perspective because I think us as...
00:51:54
Speaker
So enthusiasts in the hobby, we demand maybe too much of everyone because we get this idea drummed up in our head.
00:52:04
Speaker
And then when the final product comes out and we look at it, we go, that's not what I had pictured.
00:52:10
Speaker
A lot of people then attack whatever the project is because it's not what they – the perception that they brought up.
00:52:16
Speaker
And I think you didn't get as much of that with this because no one knew Avengers was coming until like two weeks before when someone's like, by the way, the next pinball machine is a Marvel machine.
00:52:26
Speaker
And so even we speculated, we're like, well, it's got to be Black Panther because that only makes sense.
00:52:30
Speaker
It's Black Panther.
00:52:32
Speaker
Captain Marvel.
00:52:33
Speaker
Then when they announced Avengers, I don't think anyone was thinking Avengers.
00:52:36
Speaker
And so there was no expectation.
00:52:38
Speaker
And so it's been blown out of the water because the release, the reception to this has been because this game looks phenomenal between Keith Elwin's design and your artwork.
00:52:50
Speaker
And just everything, it's like a perfect storm.
00:52:54
Speaker
I don't know what Stern's paying you guys.
00:52:56
Speaker
They need to pay you guys more.
00:52:57
Speaker
And you can take that to the bank for me.
00:52:59
Speaker
You know, you can go ask for a raise and say, hey, by the way, loser kids say that.
00:53:03
Speaker
Because these machines are pushing the standard of what pinball should be.
00:53:10
Speaker
Could I have a copy of this one?
00:53:14
Speaker
There's a few people.
00:53:15
Speaker
No, I'm joking.
00:53:19
Speaker
Do you want to be my manager?
00:53:20
Speaker
No, I really appreciate that.
00:53:25
Speaker
I think what you're trying to say is had people had expectations, I would have failed miserably.
00:53:31
Speaker
And I agree with you.
00:53:32
Speaker
No, no, I'm joking.
00:53:34
Speaker
But yeah, I was shocked.
00:53:38
Speaker
that that this was not being, you know, even tangentially talked about Jason Rufa, I'm looking at you.
00:53:48
Speaker
You know, there's no, he seems to always like, say, like, you know, the next five things or something.
00:53:54
Speaker
He's one of those guys.
00:53:56
Speaker
And I was shocked and I kept sort of joking with Keith.
00:54:02
Speaker
I'm like, Keith, when are you going to let people know?
00:54:07
Speaker
Because I just assume that somebody within the walls there has to be giving information out when I see some of these leaks.
00:54:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:17
Speaker
And I kept holding out.
00:54:18
Speaker
I'm like, I hope that I hope this does not leak.
00:54:20
Speaker
I hope it does not leak.
00:54:22
Speaker
And then when I saw people talking about a Marvel title, I was so glad that nobody was even thinking Avengers.
00:54:28
Speaker
I was like, oh, thank you.
00:54:30
Speaker
Because I knew that would that would sort of cushion the blow when people saw it.
00:54:35
Speaker
And you're right.
00:54:36
Speaker
Some people would, because of lack of expectation, would accept what I had done.
00:54:43
Speaker
Well, it's a hard franchise.
00:54:44
Speaker
It really is.
00:54:45
Speaker
I mean, look at they've built up this universe that's made billions of dollars over the last decade.
00:54:50
Speaker
And so I don't know if you felt it with Deadpool at all, because everyone was always talking, well, Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Reynolds.
00:54:57
Speaker
And even to this day, it's still, well, you know, but Ryan Reynolds.
00:55:00
Speaker
And I don't get it because that is such a beautiful game.
00:55:04
Speaker
It's just...
00:55:05
Speaker
You look at that game and it's, oh yeah, it's fantastic.
00:55:08
Speaker
Well, I, I, we, I, obviously
Reflections on Specific Projects and Industry Challenges
00:55:10
Speaker
I love that game.
00:55:11
Speaker
I'm very proud of it.
00:55:12
Speaker
I think, uh, uh, Tanya, uh, did an amazing job on, on the, the code and, and, um, you know, it was a rough ride on that one.
00:55:21
Speaker
Uh, when we go into details, uh, but, uh, um, you remember there was another designer on it at one point.
00:55:26
Speaker
See, what, what am I doing?
00:55:28
Speaker
We don't know who you're talking about.
00:55:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:32
Speaker
All right.
00:55:34
Speaker
By the way, that brings me to my joke that I've used way too much.
00:55:38
Speaker
I shouldn't even say it, but, you know, I had had such a bad time working with designers named John that when John Borg wanted to work on Turtles, I was afraid we were going to find out something horrible that he had done in his life.
00:55:57
Speaker
I kept going to him, John, just confess to me now.
00:55:59
Speaker
We can get ahead of this.
00:56:01
Speaker
Anyway, I'm joking.
00:56:03
Speaker
But that's a terrible joke, by the way.
00:56:05
Speaker
I will not.
00:56:07
Speaker
No more pinball machines for me.
00:56:10
Speaker
I apologize.
00:56:11
Speaker
But no, I
00:56:13
Speaker
yeah i i think uh at the end of the day um uh i i deadpool ended up being such a better game uh george gomez uh like he toiled and he worked night and day uh to put that together to get that get to get a new design put together and it was so much better than what we would have had just trust me on that one um
00:56:40
Speaker
I'm very proud of that one.
00:56:43
Speaker
To this day, it's probably my favorite playing game.
00:56:49
Speaker
A lot of that has to do with the rules.
00:56:51
Speaker
Just in general, it's my kind of game.
00:56:53
Speaker
It's easy to jump into.
00:56:56
Speaker
For me, I can go to the end and
00:57:00
Speaker
enjoy myself uh and i it doesn't get old it's like it's you know it's like back in the old days uh playing arcade games uh you know like uh uh you would play a game that literally only lasted maybe a half an hour and then that was it nowadays these games they're too long i can't play a 30 hour game i don't have time for that um i forget where i was when i go i step away and i come back i'm getting old
00:57:25
Speaker
No, but yeah, no, I don't even know what your question was because that's how my brain works.
00:57:32
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:57:33
Speaker
No, you're good.
00:57:34
Speaker
You're good.
00:57:34
Speaker
Well, and I want to say one more thing too.
00:57:36
Speaker
I want to congratulate you too because for so many years, everyone was saying that Zombie Yeti was the leak from Stern because you got on Deadpool and that leaked.
00:57:46
Speaker
And then what was the other one?
00:57:47
Speaker
I know Turtles leaked early too.
00:57:48
Speaker
And they're like, well, the only connection here is Yeti.
00:57:51
Speaker
And you'd went on a podcast.
00:57:52
Speaker
You're like, I swear, guys, it's not me.
00:57:55
Speaker
And now Avengers, it didn't release until two weeks before.
00:57:58
Speaker
So obviously you're not the leak.
00:57:59
Speaker
So Stern, stop.
00:58:01
Speaker
Listen, that angers me more than anything because I don't know if you do this.
00:58:05
Speaker
Well, yeah, because my work in the licensing world exists outside of Stern 2.
00:58:12
Speaker
I have no...
00:58:14
Speaker
uh no reason i have no no bonus uh to get out of leaking like if you remember like ghostbusters uh leaked right that was the first one that was really early yeah right right and you know what they leaked they leaked uh unfinished artwork bad pictures of you bad pictures of it and and uh what do i have to gain from that like nothing like
00:58:37
Speaker
And I was confronted about it, too.
00:58:39
Speaker
And they're like, listen, we actually do know who it was now.
00:58:45
Speaker
And I'm not going to go into details.
00:58:46
Speaker
But it's very possible that the same source may have been on others, too.
00:58:54
Speaker
I don't know.
00:58:55
Speaker
But the bottom line is, I can swear to you.
00:58:59
Speaker
that I have no reason and no desire to ever leak.
00:59:05
Speaker
Like the surprise is part of the fun.
00:59:07
Speaker
And I get very upset when I see people guessing games that I'm working.
00:59:13
Speaker
I don't like that at all.
00:59:15
Speaker
So it's fun.
00:59:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:17
Speaker
I had never heard that people thought it was me.
00:59:19
Speaker
Ghostbusters was a direct thing.
00:59:21
Speaker
That one, I was part of an investigation, so to speak, where they're like, Hey, did you do this?
00:59:26
Speaker
And here's the funny thing about that one too is,
00:59:29
Speaker
It was actually in production, production template, which I've never even seen.
00:59:33
Speaker
I don't even have.
00:59:34
Speaker
Right.
00:59:35
Speaker
So it wasn't me, kids.
00:59:38
Speaker
And I can assure you, I have no reason to talk about anything else.
00:59:42
Speaker
I don't want.
00:59:43
Speaker
We want to clear your good name because, you know, I appreciate that.
00:59:46
Speaker
That's that's what we do.
00:59:47
Speaker
And I can get your frustration.
00:59:49
Speaker
I mean, I think we can all relate when you go to cook something.
00:59:52
Speaker
If someone walks into the kitchen, you're halfway through baking a cake.
00:59:55
Speaker
And they look at the bowl and it's still just that pudding portion of the cake.
01:00:00
Speaker
And they're like, what the heck's this?
01:00:01
Speaker
This is not cake.
01:00:02
Speaker
And you're like, well, I'm not done yet.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, and not just that, but when you're going an entire year on a project, for instance, and you're having to keep your mouth shut, you're not allowed to show anything –
01:00:16
Speaker
why do you want it to leak like, you know, even a week before or a day before like that?
01:00:23
Speaker
Like when turtles, those crappy turtle pictures went out to see how I edited myself.
01:00:27
Speaker
Wasn't that those can't be turtle pictures went out like the day before, you know, or a couple of days before.
01:00:34
Speaker
I don't remember now, but, but that, that, that made me upset.
01:00:39
Speaker
I'm like, Oh, you gotta be kidding me.
01:00:41
Speaker
Why, why can't people just wait and be nice?
01:00:43
Speaker
By the way, which allows me to call out,
01:00:48
Speaker
Can I do that on here?
01:00:49
Speaker
Am I allowed to do that?
01:00:50
Speaker
If you want to.
01:00:51
Speaker
We will not.
01:00:51
Speaker
Because he said.
01:00:53
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry.
01:00:54
Speaker
I was going to say really quick.
01:00:55
Speaker
The comments or opinions of the guest do not reflect Luther King.
01:00:59
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no.
01:01:00
Speaker
Don't beat Chris.
01:01:01
Speaker
Don't beat them up.
01:01:02
Speaker
And don't beat me up either.
01:01:03
Speaker
I'm just saying.
01:01:04
Speaker
The irony is, you know, he leaked the turtle pics and he said, I'd do it for anything.
01:01:10
Speaker
You know, if I've got pictures of it for the pinball community, I will die on my sword.
01:01:16
Speaker
I don't know, whatever.
01:01:16
Speaker
He made it sound like, you know, he was doing something noble and he'd do it about any game.
01:01:21
Speaker
And then, of course, oh, and I've got Guns N' Roses, but I'm not going to show it.
01:01:25
Speaker
That wouldn't be nice of me to show it.
01:01:27
Speaker
Anyway, I'm calling you out, boy.
01:01:32
Speaker
Sorry.
01:01:33
Speaker
No, no, that's fine.
01:01:34
Speaker
Actually, Chris, Chris, don't leak things, please.
01:01:37
Speaker
I mean, you can talk about them and you can tell people, you know, stuff.
01:01:39
Speaker
Just don't leak things, especially if I'm involved.
01:01:43
Speaker
I actually enjoy this was the best pinball reveal that I've been a part of just because I really had absolutely no clue.
01:01:52
Speaker
what was coming up.
01:01:53
Speaker
And so when Josh texted me, he's like, hey, did you see the rumors of the new title?
01:01:58
Speaker
I'm like, really?
01:01:58
Speaker
And this was like 12 hours before.
01:02:01
Speaker
And so it was just so much fun to actually say, huh, I had absolutely no idea.
01:02:06
Speaker
And so I just get a look at it.
01:02:07
Speaker
It was great.
01:02:09
Speaker
No, I think that's the idea.
01:02:11
Speaker
That's the way that Stern would prefer all of them to go.
01:02:15
Speaker
You know, it's people who apparently, you know, and listen, I'm the worst guy in this regard.
01:02:21
Speaker
My sister, when we were young, I have an older sister.
01:02:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:26
Speaker
And I love to tell her what presents she was getting for Christmas before.
01:02:32
Speaker
Because because I thought everyone wanted to know what they were getting.
01:02:35
Speaker
And so I'd be like, I know what mom and dad and she'd be like, no, shut up.
01:02:38
Speaker
Don't tell me.
01:02:39
Speaker
So so so what I'm saying is I get it.
01:02:43
Speaker
I understand why people want to say things.
01:02:46
Speaker
um it makes sense uh but at the same time it's like if you wait um you know uh what is it what good things come to those who i don't know whatever yes no yeah
01:02:58
Speaker
It's totally good.
01:03:00
Speaker
It's more fun.
01:03:01
Speaker
It's certainly more fun.
01:03:02
Speaker
So, yeah.
01:03:03
Speaker
And I think at the end of the day, you know, now people have an expectation of how many games are going to get released, you know, in a year by Stern.
01:03:13
Speaker
Right.
01:03:13
Speaker
Everyone's like, OK, about this time, we'll probably get something or about this time.
01:03:17
Speaker
Well, it's never it's never quite, you know, like, OK, I know every June 4th we're going to get, you know, a game or something.
01:03:24
Speaker
It's not quite like that.
01:03:26
Speaker
Um, uh, but at the same time, it's, you know, wouldn't it be great if you had no idea what it was and then it turns out to be something you like.
01:03:33
Speaker
Um, now if it's something you hate and I worked on it, um, uh, then apparently we, we, we could never be friends.
01:03:40
Speaker
We wouldn't be compatible.
01:03:42
Speaker
Uh, so.
01:03:44
Speaker
Well, I guess we could be friends in real life.
01:03:46
Speaker
Cause I I've enjoyed every project you've done so far.
01:03:48
Speaker
I know.
01:03:49
Speaker
And I know Scott loves Iron Maiden just gushes over that game.
01:03:54
Speaker
Hey, I appreciate it.
01:03:55
Speaker
I'm one of those guys who when people came out, they're like Iron Maiden.
01:03:57
Speaker
Like, yeah, I mean,
01:04:00
Speaker
I give Keith all the credit on that one, though, because the rules and how he set that game up within that universe and actually Chuck Ernst's team and all the animation and display stuff they did, that game became way more than what I could even have imagined.
01:04:21
Speaker
Like I had, you know, expectations, but at the same time, what it turned into, it is special, I think.
01:04:30
Speaker
What I was thinking when I see your art, it reminds me of, so when I was growing up in the 80s, and you go into the bookstores, because back then they had bookstores, and you go into the fantasy novel, you know, the Conan the Barbarian type stuff.
01:04:46
Speaker
And I would pull it out and I would look at the cover, because that's how you bought a book, right?
01:04:51
Speaker
And I would look at it and I was like, holy cow, did any of these guys take art classes?
01:04:55
Speaker
Like, it was so bad.
01:04:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:57
Speaker
I mean, seriously, the muscles were in the wrong place and it looked like it was.
01:05:03
Speaker
I like the fact that you started this by saying, when I look at your art, it reminds me.
01:05:08
Speaker
And then you went into this whole thing about how people.
01:05:11
Speaker
No, no, I think it's fantastic.
01:05:13
Speaker
I love it.
01:05:13
Speaker
Keep going.
01:05:14
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes.
01:05:15
Speaker
No, no.
01:05:15
Speaker
What I'm saying is that there are so many times when I look at some old pinball art from back in the day where, yes, there are some great ones, but there are some where you're like, oh, my gosh, this is terrible.
01:05:26
Speaker
And then you come along and you say, yeah, this is how it's supposed to be.
01:05:30
Speaker
And this is what makes it great.
01:05:32
Speaker
It really does push it to a new level.
01:05:34
Speaker
See, see what I did?
01:05:36
Speaker
No, that's good.
01:05:38
Speaker
You guys really helped my self-esteem tonight.
01:05:41
Speaker
Thank you.
01:05:42
Speaker
No, I'm joking.
01:05:44
Speaker
No, I'm not joking, but I'm joking to be dismissive of it.
01:05:47
Speaker
I actually do appreciate it.
01:05:48
Speaker
But having said that...
01:05:50
Speaker
um i think there's a lot of charm to to some of that stuff like i so i was a um i grew up i was a uh a sega kid like i had a sega master system instead of a a nintendo entertainment system um that's terrible right um not at all i had the genesis well i went with the genesis so i never had a super nintendo so
01:06:13
Speaker
Okay, okay, there you go.
01:06:14
Speaker
After that, I became platform agnostic.
01:06:17
Speaker
I treat them all the same.
01:06:23
Speaker
But having said that, Sega box art was terrible during that era.
01:06:29
Speaker
Awful, awful stuff.
01:06:30
Speaker
Like classically awful stuff.
01:06:32
Speaker
I, there's a charm to that to me.
01:06:34
Speaker
And to this day, I still sort of, um, think about that.
01:06:38
Speaker
Even the, you know, the Genesis era, there was some, there was some pretty bad stuff too, but there was good stuff as well.
01:06:43
Speaker
And I try to, I, I try to, um,
01:06:49
Speaker
I try to care.
01:06:49
Speaker
I think what I've learned is in the gaming world, at least back then.
01:06:56
Speaker
And I, and I know this because a lot of the people who are at Stern used to be, you know, working in, in the gaming world.
01:07:05
Speaker
And I've been told, I think this is, I want to say Greg Ferris told me that Kevin O'Connor said at one point, and I could be totally wrong.
01:07:13
Speaker
So I probably shouldn't even mention names.
01:07:15
Speaker
So I apologize, Kevin and Greg, if I'm wrong.
01:07:18
Speaker
But that Kevin used to say that they were nothing more than glorified carnival artists.
01:07:28
Speaker
And I don't know, like in my mind, I go, well, so does that mean like he felt...
01:07:33
Speaker
he felt like they were treated that way?
01:07:35
Speaker
Or was that actually like an endearing thing?
01:07:39
Speaker
When I see Kevin, I got to ask him.
01:07:41
Speaker
But I don't know if it's good or bad, but I get it.
01:07:44
Speaker
And he's not wrong, I don't think, just on the level of essentially all you're trying to do is get someone's eye to look at something.
01:07:54
Speaker
That's it.
01:07:55
Speaker
At its core form.
01:07:58
Speaker
And I don't know if he meant that because I'm guessing their schedules were worse back then than they are now.
01:08:04
Speaker
Only because of how many games they were putting out back in the heyday in particular, but...
01:08:10
Speaker
So I was going to say back in their day, though, you know, we talk about half naked women on pinball because that's what it used to be.
01:08:18
Speaker
So you you guys have overstepped that now and you don't have to do that anymore unless it's something like Elvira, which is empowering.
01:08:24
Speaker
But yeah, you look at the World Cup soccer.
01:08:26
Speaker
I know Kevin O'Connor did the artwork on this one.
01:08:28
Speaker
And it's I actually like it.
01:08:30
Speaker
It's a little bit cheesy.
01:08:31
Speaker
People say that the artwork's not that great.
01:08:33
Speaker
But I always joke, though, it's like we have all these soccer players and then we have a female ref and booty shorts right down the middle of the flippers.
01:08:39
Speaker
No, Kevin, Kevin's fantastic.
01:08:41
Speaker
I love Kevin, like Kevin and Greg.
01:08:44
Speaker
Obviously, you know, Greg, Greg is sort of, I guess I'd call him my mentor and in the pinball space or whatever.
01:08:52
Speaker
I don't know if he'll, I don't know if he'll take that one or not, but, but, you know, I look up to those guys.
01:08:58
Speaker
I mean, you know, it,
01:09:01
Speaker
The way they had to do things back in the days before we had computers with with doing optical prints and things like that, just to get to the point of of line is insane to me.
01:09:14
Speaker
And and I have the utmost respect.
01:09:18
Speaker
And I know that they also were working, you know, back then they produced way more games than they do now.
01:09:25
Speaker
uh technically although we're getting close aren't we now come on too many games in a year anyway says the guy who just had two back-to-back anyway um uh no there's way too no um i'm just saying because i can't afford uh but uh uh yeah no um i i don't i don't take that as a bad thing and and yes uh at the end of the day um there has been bad i've never looked at it like i was going to improve anything that had been done all i looked at was
01:09:55
Speaker
If I was going to do this, I wanted to do it my way and I wanted to hopefully get to do it again.
01:10:05
Speaker
And that was that was my only goal.
01:10:07
Speaker
And it's it's literally my only goal project by project.
01:10:11
Speaker
Well, I don't I don't foresee any time soon that people are going to say, you know what?
01:10:16
Speaker
We don't want any more zombie yeti.
01:10:17
Speaker
I mean, people like I said, I feel like it's the standard.
01:10:21
Speaker
And I don't mean any downplay to anyone else.
01:10:24
Speaker
I really appreciate what Franchi does, what Dirty Donnie does, Kevin O'Connor.
01:10:29
Speaker
I mean, the artwork nowadays is just above and beyond, especially anything that was produced in the 2000s and early 2010s.
01:10:39
Speaker
And it's just there was a turn, and I swear it was with either Magic Girl or Alice in Wonderland,
01:10:47
Speaker
turn of this is what pinball art could be and should be and ever since then everything has been a step above the rest especially I think it opened the door basically what you're saying is this is the turning point this is once everybody saw that they said we want more of that style and that really opened the door for other artists you know like Dirty Donnie, Franchi and all them to be able to do what they do is that what you're saying Josh?
01:11:14
Speaker
Yes that's what I'm saying
01:11:16
Speaker
Well, so first off, somebody write a book quick so that I'll at least have a footnote in history, if that's true.
01:11:24
Speaker
Secondly, that's a joke.
01:11:26
Speaker
I don't really care.
01:11:27
Speaker
But secondly, I have it a little different.
01:11:30
Speaker
And I'm going to tell you right now, Dirty Donnie, when he did his work with...
01:11:40
Speaker
Actually, I believe Tanya was the programmer when he did that first one-off Metallica.
01:11:46
Speaker
I think...
01:11:48
Speaker
His work is what put John Papaduke on a search to find someone, and that's how he found me.
01:12:02
Speaker
So I give Donnie the credit.
01:12:05
Speaker
I think Donnie changed things, but that just enabled me to come in and make my little mark on it or whatever.
01:12:14
Speaker
I mean –
01:12:16
Speaker
Listen, at the end of the day, there's always somebody better at everything.
01:12:20
Speaker
Um, and especially with art, I know there's, there's better artists than me.
01:12:24
Speaker
I know there's, there's better people, uh, out there now.
01:12:28
Speaker
Do I think that there's a better person perfectly suited, uh, for the types of schedules and the types of, of, of frenetic, uh, work and, and, and stuff in pinball?
01:12:42
Speaker
Um,
01:12:43
Speaker
Not right now.
01:12:44
Speaker
Uh, most, most of my artist friends that I try to be like, Hey, would you be interested in pinball?
01:12:48
Speaker
And I tell them the schedule and, and sort of, you know, kind of the flow of it.
01:12:51
Speaker
They're like, nah, not a chance.
01:12:54
Speaker
Um, but, but again, you know, I was a user interface designer, uh, for years.
01:13:00
Speaker
Uh, and, and I think that lends itself, um, in particular when working on play fields and stuff like that.
01:13:06
Speaker
Um, you know, uh,
01:13:08
Speaker
So I don't know.
01:13:10
Speaker
I just tripped and fell and stumbled down some stairs that sort of bent my spine in the right form to sit in this chair and do this.
01:13:21
Speaker
Did I tell you about that?
01:13:22
Speaker
I was in the hospital for a long time.
01:13:24
Speaker
No, you did not.
01:13:25
Speaker
I'm sorry, it's a terrible joke.
01:13:28
Speaker
Horrible joke.
01:13:29
Speaker
Such a terrible analogy.
01:13:31
Speaker
The only way I could end it was with a joke.
01:13:33
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:13:34
Speaker
It's good.
01:13:35
Speaker
It works.
01:13:35
Speaker
It works.
01:13:37
Speaker
You know, but on the flip side, though, and coming a little bit back to the art, sometimes in the world before they could actually have games that had good art.
01:13:48
Speaker
So I'm thinking back in like Intellivision Atari games.
01:13:50
Speaker
Sometimes they only had that one shot to sell the game.
01:13:54
Speaker
And some of those images were pretty amazing.
01:13:57
Speaker
I still think of the centipede art on the side cabinet, I think, is one of the coolest art things.
01:14:04
Speaker
And of course, it has...
01:14:05
Speaker
very little to do with the gameplay because it was just pixelated dots, but it really is iconic.
01:14:13
Speaker
And so some of that art back in the day was great and other was just trash.
01:14:19
Speaker
I completely agree.
01:14:22
Speaker
I think a lot of that was because the artist was left to do what they do.
01:14:29
Speaker
It was up to their imagination.
01:14:31
Speaker
Like, how do you do that?
01:14:32
Speaker
And so, you know, some artists need a lot of direction and some artists don't.
01:14:38
Speaker
And I think a lot of those folks who were, you know, essentially, probably they came from the advertising world.
01:14:47
Speaker
A lot of them were traditional painters or admin.
01:14:51
Speaker
I think they excelled at that stuff.
01:14:54
Speaker
And obviously, the good ones were usually snatched up by a company.
01:15:01
Speaker
And that's why you saw specific companies have good box art and specific companies have bad box art, Sega.
01:15:11
Speaker
And so, yeah, I completely agree with you.
01:15:13
Speaker
And it's funny because...
01:15:16
Speaker
And this is a struggle I have all the time.
01:15:18
Speaker
And I know I forget who it was.
01:15:20
Speaker
Maybe it was maybe it was that Zach.
01:15:22
Speaker
You know, we haven't talked about Zach in a while and he doesn't get a lot of time on podcasts.
01:15:29
Speaker
So Zach Meaney, I'm calling you out.
01:15:33
Speaker
No, I think I saw a portion or somebody sent me a clip or something of them talking about the Avengers play field.
01:15:42
Speaker
I can't remember if it was him who said it or not, but something along the lines of they were surprised at...
01:15:51
Speaker
usually I cram stuff all over a play field, and on the Avengers, it looked like I had some restraint, right?
01:16:00
Speaker
And I was like, I don't know if that's an insult or not.
01:16:04
Speaker
I don't think it is, but I want to say my goal is not just to cram stuff all over the place.
01:16:12
Speaker
I want to give you your money's worth, don't get me wrong, but at the same time, I try to...
01:16:19
Speaker
I try to design things.
01:16:20
Speaker
So here's an example.
01:16:21
Speaker
Do you know Mike Mignola, the creator of Hellboy?
01:16:26
Speaker
Have you seen his artwork, obviously, right?
01:16:28
Speaker
Yes.
01:16:29
Speaker
Okay.
01:16:30
Speaker
Look at his work versus, let's say, someone like Jim Lee.
01:16:35
Speaker
And a lot of people objectively look at that and go, oh, my goodness, Jim Lee has so much more detail.
01:16:42
Speaker
Therefore, it's better.
01:16:45
Speaker
I'm telling you right now, I'm calling you out, Jim Lee.
01:16:48
Speaker
That's not true.
01:16:51
Speaker
Mike Mignola and what he does is is actually much more complicated to be able to actually simplify forms and.
01:17:01
Speaker
and communicate information in that stylized manner and more of a designed manner is actually much more difficult.
01:17:10
Speaker
And so my struggle is always finding that middle ground between the two and
01:17:16
Speaker
Avengers, because of the shortened timeframe and everything else, really lent itself to me being able to do that.
01:17:24
Speaker
And the fact that I had to draw so many characters, I'm like, I don't want to clutter the spaces.
01:17:30
Speaker
I need to have openness to
01:17:33
Speaker
um to be able to draw people to the silhouettes of these these characters so that was intentional um you know it was actually quite thoughtful um and i don't take it as a as an insult and i don't know if zach said it or not i just know that he doesn't get enough uh uh you know advertising uh in the the podcast space not at all
01:17:57
Speaker
No, I do get exactly what you're talking about.
01:18:01
Speaker
Hellboy versus Jim Lee.
01:18:03
Speaker
It seems a little bit like Frank Miller.
01:18:05
Speaker
And if you look at that, it's a completely different style and it's it's also a perfect style.
01:18:12
Speaker
It's just a stylistic choice and it doesn't have to be exactly.
01:18:16
Speaker
what if you look at what Jim Lee does, it looks very much exactly like you would anticipate the ideal comic book artist to be.
01:18:25
Speaker
But that doesn't mean every comic book artist has to be like that.
01:18:29
Speaker
Right.
01:18:29
Speaker
But and at the same time, the amount of effort going between the two.
01:18:34
Speaker
Now, I'm not saying Jim Lee doesn't spend more time than Mignola on something.
01:18:38
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
01:18:39
Speaker
But what I'm saying is there's actually much more time and thought that goes into the way he Mignola crafts the simplicity.
01:18:48
Speaker
You know, it's not like, oh, I'm just I'm just using less lines.
01:18:52
Speaker
It takes less time.
01:18:54
Speaker
It's not quite that way.
01:18:55
Speaker
So, yeah, yeah,
Video Games and Pinball Crossover Ideas
01:18:57
Speaker
yeah.
01:18:57
Speaker
So one of my final questions, we've talked a lot about video games tonight, and I don't know if you've ever listened to us before, but Scott and I really do enjoy video games and think that the platform would lend well to pinball.
01:19:09
Speaker
If you could pick one video game license that you could do the artwork for pinball, doesn't matter how obscure or how mainstream it is, what would you pick to do for pinball?
01:19:20
Speaker
See, I have a terrible answer to that.
01:19:23
Speaker
let's hear it a really terrible answer to that that people are will probably hate me for um tony hawk pro skater now that would be awesome i i think it's like the perfect pinball uh crossover franchise in my opinion the idea of combos the idea of stringing things together obviously rails uh let's uh let's give it to keith ellen anyway um yes uh
01:19:48
Speaker
I think, in my opinion, especially the soundtrack, everything about it,
01:19:54
Speaker
is perfect.
01:19:55
Speaker
And I've actually been talking about that so much because obviously the, the HD, you know, Tony Hawk one and two remake came out and I've been playing the heck out of it.
01:20:04
Speaker
Pretending like I, I'm a, I'm a young lad again.
01:20:07
Speaker
And by the way, I'm not nearly as good as I used to be.
01:20:11
Speaker
I'm not saying I'm bad, but for crying out loud, like is something changed because my timing on reverts just, I don't know, something's weird.
01:20:20
Speaker
Anyway, yeah,
01:20:21
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:20:23
Speaker
It just something's off.
01:20:24
Speaker
But but I love it and I don't care.
01:20:27
Speaker
Also, some of those new tracks on the soundtrack.
01:20:30
Speaker
Who cares for those?
01:20:31
Speaker
Let's turn those off.
01:20:31
Speaker
Right.
01:20:34
Speaker
I miss the old soundtracks.
01:20:35
Speaker
But but yeah, that would be my answer.
01:20:38
Speaker
I could give other answers.
01:20:40
Speaker
But I think in my opinion, in my head, that's the perfect fit.
01:20:46
Speaker
Okay.
01:20:46
Speaker
Could you please, could you please promise me that you're going to put some weird mustache on there like skateboard?
01:20:53
Speaker
So you can put Tony Hawk with, with that, with that comb, you know, that, that comb mustache that for some reason, the dude's like 45 on skateboard.
01:21:05
Speaker
The art is, is fantastically weird.
01:21:08
Speaker
So you're saying we should remake that one.
01:21:10
Speaker
I'm with you.
01:21:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, put Tony Hawk, but have that weird handlebar mustache or something.
01:21:16
Speaker
Oh, no, I was going to say, no, I completely agree.
01:21:20
Speaker
See, and I think, and this is why I think your idea is genius on this one.
01:21:24
Speaker
I just introduced my son to Tony Hawk's Pro Skater because I have it on my Xbox 360.
01:21:28
Speaker
I downloaded it for whatever it was, $10 or whatever.
01:21:31
Speaker
And he has been so addicted to that game, the idea of all these combos and everything like that.
01:21:36
Speaker
But also, and this is selfish on my part, this is probably the closest we'll ever get a ska song into a pinball machine.
01:21:42
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
01:21:43
Speaker
Drop the ska.
01:21:44
Speaker
It's the worst music ever.
01:21:45
Speaker
Okay.
01:21:48
Speaker
No, it's not.
Social Media and Nostalgia
01:21:49
Speaker
It's when a 12-year-old... It's the music that a 12-year-old had goes in his head while he gets an extra mozzarella stick with his combo.
01:21:56
Speaker
Okay, are you going to have him do an Aquabats theme now?
01:22:00
Speaker
Hey, you said it.
01:22:01
Speaker
I'm just... Your genius is bringing this up.
01:22:04
Speaker
I'm just going to back it.
01:22:05
Speaker
Hey, can I just tell you the Aquabats follow me on Instagram?
01:22:08
Speaker
Okay, that's... Listen, I'm big.
01:22:10
Speaker
I'm big.
01:22:11
Speaker
Anyway...
01:22:13
Speaker
I remember the day that I found that out and I went, what?
01:22:18
Speaker
Anyway, so, yeah, listen, I'm all for it.
01:22:24
Speaker
I think it would make perfect sense.
01:22:27
Speaker
I do have one other potential candidate that –
01:22:35
Speaker
I'm not ready to reveal yet that I have an idea on and an angle on it that I actually do want to pitch to someone at Stern because I do think it has legs and I do think it's it's something that could be done.
01:22:47
Speaker
But and I'm not saying Tony Hawk doesn't either.
01:22:49
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, but I don't know that I don't know that's interested in that other than me.
01:22:54
Speaker
We might have missed the window with the HD remake coming out.
01:22:57
Speaker
I think so.
01:22:58
Speaker
I think so.
01:22:59
Speaker
But hey, I've got my vote.
01:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, he's ToeJam.
01:23:04
Speaker
Oh, you read my mind.
01:23:05
Speaker
No, no, not ToeJam.
01:23:07
Speaker
I was actually thinking Alex the Kid when you said, no one's going to like this.
01:23:10
Speaker
And I'm like, because I grew up on Alex the Kid from the original Genesis.
01:23:14
Speaker
I love Alex the Kid.
01:23:15
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:23:16
Speaker
No, no, no.
01:23:17
Speaker
What about the classic Atari that will always be the best game they have ever made?
01:23:22
Speaker
E.T.?
01:23:23
Speaker
There you go.
01:23:25
Speaker
That's not bad.
01:23:26
Speaker
Hey, the play field could just have lots of pits.
01:23:29
Speaker
The ball just falls down in pits.
01:23:31
Speaker
Right.
01:23:31
Speaker
Because they went and the game was so bad, they buried it.
01:23:35
Speaker
That's the best part of the story.
01:23:37
Speaker
Like it was so bad.
01:23:38
Speaker
They went out in the middle of nowhere and buried all the extra games that no one bought.
01:23:42
Speaker
Well, it's ironic to be because that was part of the gameplay.
01:23:45
Speaker
Like he literally would constantly fall down in these little holes and then, you know, get Reese's Pieces and then whatever.
01:23:53
Speaker
What a terrible game.
01:23:56
Speaker
That would be the wizard mode is you're burying all the games out there.
01:23:59
Speaker
You're collecting all the games to a race that was ever made.
01:24:02
Speaker
Yeah, it'd be like Diamond Collect on Congo.
01:24:05
Speaker
You're just collecting one after another after another just to stick it in a pit.
01:24:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:10
Speaker
I like the way you guys think.
01:24:13
Speaker
Do you want to start a pinball company?
01:24:15
Speaker
I have an idea for specialized legs.
01:24:19
Speaker
We'll start there.
01:24:20
Speaker
Yes.
01:24:21
Speaker
Okay, let's start there.
01:24:22
Speaker
You know, eight legs.
01:24:23
Speaker
It wants to be an eight legs.
01:24:24
Speaker
That's what.
01:24:24
Speaker
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:24:26
Speaker
I was going with six.
01:24:27
Speaker
Eight.
01:24:27
Speaker
That's brilliant.
01:24:29
Speaker
Octo-legged.
01:24:31
Speaker
Oh, ouch.
01:24:34
Speaker
Oh, it sounds like a James Bonds reference, but I'm going to move on now.
01:24:38
Speaker
I've read those.
01:24:42
Speaker
Oh, thank you, Austin Powers, for ruining my love for James Bond.
01:24:46
Speaker
Man, no kidding.
01:24:48
Speaker
No, no.
01:24:50
Speaker
All right, well, I'm going to wrap this up.
01:24:53
Speaker
You know, you've been awesome, Mr. Jeremy Packard or Zombie Yeti.
01:24:56
Speaker
I don't know what you prefer, honestly.
01:24:58
Speaker
Well, I have no preference.
01:25:02
Speaker
I think Jeremy Packer is a boring name, but I think Zombie Yeti sounds dumb, too.
01:25:12
Speaker
So I don't know what I write.
01:25:14
Speaker
Okay, I will say I was on vacation over the weekend and we watched all the Hotel Transylvania movies.
01:25:21
Speaker
And in the second one, when he came, this is out of left field, when they're thinking about moving to California, they're like, yeah, we have a lot of mixed couples.
01:25:31
Speaker
I invited some in the neighborhood.
01:25:33
Speaker
And he comes in, it's like, and this is Melissa or whatever her name was.
01:25:37
Speaker
And she's married to a werewolf.
01:25:39
Speaker
And the guy's looking at her like, what?
01:25:42
Speaker
immediately I thought that's zombie Yeti right there.
01:25:45
Speaker
So first off for clarification, you have children, right?
01:25:49
Speaker
That's why you were watching those.
01:25:50
Speaker
I do.
01:25:50
Speaker
Yes, I do.
01:25:51
Speaker
I have three children.
01:25:52
Speaker
Uh,
01:25:54
Speaker
I do too I watch a lot of things that are questionable in that very same way those aren't bad actually I love Genndy Tartakovsky who did those films so regardless of anything I can't hate them because of his wonderful animation which by the way speaking of video games quick plug the Samurai Jack game that just came out he actually helped work on it it's actually worth playing I'm surprised I have no idea about that game
01:26:22
Speaker
Yes, I know.
01:26:24
Speaker
And it's on every platform.
01:26:25
Speaker
I think it's probably on your phone.
01:26:28
Speaker
But no, I played it on Xbox and I loved it.
01:26:33
Speaker
I couldn't stop playing it.
01:26:35
Speaker
It was bizarre.
01:26:36
Speaker
Are you addicted to Among Us like everyone else is right now, too?
01:26:40
Speaker
Oh, my kids are playing.
01:26:41
Speaker
They were playing that.
01:26:42
Speaker
My kids.
01:26:42
Speaker
Oh, my God.
01:26:43
Speaker
My kids do it for me.
01:26:44
Speaker
Like, I I love the memes.
01:26:47
Speaker
I love and I and I like watching.
01:26:50
Speaker
But no, I have not actually played myself yet.
01:26:54
Speaker
I'm telling you, we got to get an Among Us night together and all see who the imposter is.
01:27:00
Speaker
It's going to be a hoot.
01:27:01
Speaker
So I'm too busy stuck with like the NES, the the NES where it's like I'll play Contra, but only if I can use the code for 30 people because there's zero chance I'm going to play that game.
Retro Gaming Experiences and Challenges
01:27:14
Speaker
See, yeah, the kids are spoiled nowadays.
01:27:17
Speaker
Games are too easy.
01:27:18
Speaker
Yeah, they don't remember how hard those games were.
01:27:21
Speaker
Like, do you remember trying to play Ghosts and Goblins for the first time?
01:27:24
Speaker
You want to know something?
01:27:25
Speaker
You laughed at like seven seconds.
01:27:28
Speaker
I, did you ever, I, uh, ghouls and ghosts for Sega Genesis.
01:27:31
Speaker
I'm sure you remember that one.
01:27:33
Speaker
The, the, I, I could play that game and keep in mind, you have to go through the game twice to beat it.
01:27:39
Speaker
I could play that game, uh, and actually go through it and beat it with, without any cheating whatsoever.
01:27:47
Speaker
Um, that's how lonely of a child I was anyway.
01:27:51
Speaker
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I actually sought out the hardest game ever made, the one that was voted the very hardest game ever made, which is Battletoads.
01:27:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:28:00
Speaker
Yes.
01:28:00
Speaker
And I dedicated myself to make sure I could beat that game.
01:28:04
Speaker
And I finally did.
01:28:05
Speaker
And whoever made that game, the first three levels are fun.
01:28:09
Speaker
The rest, the dude needs to be punched in the nose because that was just a ridiculously hard.
01:28:12
Speaker
See, I thought you were going to go somewhere else with a punch.
01:28:15
Speaker
Oh, speaking of which, see, I'm now I'm giving myself away here.
01:28:20
Speaker
I'm just getting us distracted from leaving.
01:28:23
Speaker
They just did a brand new Battletoads game on Xbox.
01:28:29
Speaker
I know a lot of people.
01:28:30
Speaker
This is not a popular opinion.
01:28:33
Speaker
It's it's actually enjoyable to play through.
01:28:36
Speaker
It's not something you would ever go back to.
01:28:39
Speaker
But it's it's it breaks up the gameplay.
01:28:42
Speaker
It's not terrible.
01:28:43
Speaker
The style of it.
01:28:45
Speaker
Obviously, I like bright and saturated colors.
01:28:51
Speaker
So it was like eye candy to me.
01:28:54
Speaker
It's not terribly funny, but there's like one joke in it where I go, boy, I wish all the humor was like that.
01:29:00
Speaker
But but it's if you like Battletoads, you'll love this because you you can't fail at it.
01:29:07
Speaker
It's it's made for the the the kids nowadays.
01:29:12
Speaker
See, and I'm going back through Super Mario 64 right now because it got re-released for the Switch.
01:29:17
Speaker
Yep.
01:29:18
Speaker
Holy crap.
01:29:19
Speaker
I don't – when did that game become so hard?
01:29:21
Speaker
I remember as a child it was a cakewalk and now – You had a lot more time on your hands.
01:29:27
Speaker
No, I'm going to tell you what it is.
01:29:28
Speaker
I'm going to tell you what it is.
01:29:29
Speaker
This is – and by the way – Camera ankles.
01:29:31
Speaker
No, it has everything to do with the N64 controller and the fact that that analog stick was a higher height than analog sticks are nowadays.
01:29:41
Speaker
So you had a little more control and it actually had crevices to lock into specific places and the camera would turn.
01:29:50
Speaker
So you could always get the camera perfectly behind and actually get perfectly going forward, backwards or to different degrees in between.
01:29:59
Speaker
So I personally, I'm telling you, that's what it is because I played it on a Super Nintendo or Nintendo 64 not long ago.
01:30:10
Speaker
And that's the difference.
01:30:11
Speaker
That's what's making it harder for you because you can pretty much just sort of meander wherever you want.
01:30:17
Speaker
And you don't have quite the sensitivity from a stop to a run.
01:30:23
Speaker
Gotcha.
01:30:24
Speaker
Okay, Josh.
01:30:25
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:30:25
Speaker
I'm a nerd.
01:30:27
Speaker
No, we're nerds too.
01:30:28
Speaker
Hey, we have an, I have a Nintendo 64 still in my house.
01:30:32
Speaker
And so just get the game and bring it over and we'll figure out how to play it.
01:30:36
Speaker
I've got my N64 as well.
01:30:37
Speaker
We'll, we'll do a game night.
01:30:39
Speaker
I've also got my old NES.
01:30:40
Speaker
And if you want to play Battletoads on the old NES, I got it.
01:30:43
Speaker
I don't think I have that.
01:30:44
Speaker
I do have a game genie though.
01:30:46
Speaker
And I bought like 90 games when they were like three bucks each back in the early days.
01:30:51
Speaker
So smart.
01:30:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:30:54
Speaker
Those 90 games are now worth at least $90.
01:30:58
Speaker
Exactly.
01:30:59
Speaker
$92.
01:30:59
Speaker
No, no.
01:31:00
Speaker
Actually, you've probably got some gems in there.
01:31:03
Speaker
Trust me.
01:31:03
Speaker
That's...
01:31:05
Speaker
But anyway, no, I listen.
01:31:07
Speaker
I appreciate it.
01:31:08
Speaker
You guys were fantastic and you made me feel good.
01:31:13
Speaker
I will probably go to bed tonight without crying.
01:31:18
Speaker
This is the first.
01:31:20
Speaker
No, I'm joking.
01:31:21
Speaker
No blisters on the hands from working so hard.
01:31:24
Speaker
yeah no no exactly no no no i i no listen i i thank uh you guys i thank the pinball community uh for uh allowing me to keep doing this and obviously uh i thank the overlords at stern who continue to trust me um and let me work uh hopefully i'll get to do it a few more times and hopefully uh i won't have games releasing back to back ever again
01:31:48
Speaker
Well, I'm hoping your game is coming to my house next week.
01:31:51
Speaker
So that's the plan.
01:31:53
Speaker
I hope so, too, because I'm going to claim I'm sick and go to Scott's house.
01:31:56
Speaker
So that way I can skip work and get to play the new Avengers.
01:31:59
Speaker
That'd be awesome.
01:32:00
Speaker
Oh, you'll love it.
01:32:01
Speaker
You'll absolutely love it.
01:32:02
Speaker
And not because of the artwork.
01:32:04
Speaker
Except that middle ramp on Turtles, I think, was designed by Satan.
01:32:08
Speaker
I cannot hit it.
01:32:09
Speaker
Seriously.
01:32:10
Speaker
Oh, there's a there's a time.
01:32:12
Speaker
So, well, I'll tell you the inside baseball.
01:32:15
Speaker
John Borg told me he said he said turn the flipper power up all the way because it's not by default.
01:32:23
Speaker
So because he likes to just jam it up in there.
01:32:25
Speaker
Right.
01:32:26
Speaker
Like that's that's his whole thing.
01:32:27
Speaker
I don't do that.
01:32:28
Speaker
I actually have a thing where I think it intentionally has to be a combo shot to get it up.
01:32:38
Speaker
So I'll basically do the crane combo, and with the speed coming around the second time, that's the only way I can get the power to get it up there.
01:32:47
Speaker
But I'm pretty...
01:32:49
Speaker
pretty consistent, I think.
01:32:50
Speaker
Oh, geez.
01:32:51
Speaker
It is dumb luck if I hit that shot.
01:32:53
Speaker
Really?
01:32:54
Speaker
It's just crazy.
01:32:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:32:56
Speaker
And I'm chimp flipping it.
01:32:57
Speaker
I'm trying to hit it as much as like it just, no.
01:32:59
Speaker
And what I do is when I launch, I actually do like the second stage.
01:33:04
Speaker
So I push it in.
01:33:05
Speaker
So the lower flippers activated and the other one's not.
01:33:08
Speaker
And so I just wait and I try to hit it.
01:33:10
Speaker
It's so hard.
01:33:12
Speaker
Don't don't just just don't even do the second stage thing.
01:33:15
Speaker
Just just bang that thing like literally as it's coming around from a full launch.
01:33:22
Speaker
It's it's you want to hit it right right about the timing is just when it's it's passing over the flipper so that you're hitting it right on the tip.
01:33:33
Speaker
And it'll work every time.
01:33:34
Speaker
Like, like it's at least at the, you know, I think I've got mine adjusted correctly.
01:33:42
Speaker
It seems, it seems to work for me every time.
01:33:44
Speaker
It's just a matter of, of being just a hair too fast or too slow if it doesn't happen.
01:33:50
Speaker
But, but you know, the shot that kills me.
01:33:52
Speaker
and this is mind-numbing, is actually the pizza parlor shot.
01:33:57
Speaker
For some reason, for some reason, I have to hit that from the left flipper and actually bounce it off of the pizza target to send it off there.
01:34:10
Speaker
Yeah, which is the stupidest thing ever.
01:34:12
Speaker
I don't know why that shot gives me trouble, but it does.
01:34:16
Speaker
I always seem I can't hit it under pressure.
01:34:18
Speaker
All of a sudden I'm rattling around and I'm hitting.
Contact and Merchandise Information
01:34:21
Speaker
No, listen, I can't play under pressure.
01:34:22
Speaker
I could not do – I was watching the Stern TMNT little mini competition thing the other week, which by the way was fantastic.
01:34:32
Speaker
And I'm watching them do these little tiny challenges and I'm going, holy crap, I could do that one just as fast or faster.
01:34:39
Speaker
And then I go, oh, wait a minute, but not if I had to do it on demand.
01:34:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:34:44
Speaker
Like, like it wouldn't happen at all.
01:34:46
Speaker
I couldn't do it.
01:34:49
Speaker
So if someone wants to get ahold of you, Jeremy, where, where do you want to be chatted at?
01:34:54
Speaker
I guess.
01:34:56
Speaker
I don't know, man.
01:34:57
Speaker
Like, I don't know.
01:34:58
Speaker
I'm terrible.
01:34:59
Speaker
Just leave a comment on your Facebook.
01:35:02
Speaker
You know, yeah, postcard Instagram, my Instagram, which is just, you know, zombie Eddie or Facebook zombie Eddie also or whatever.
01:35:13
Speaker
Like those are the easiest places.
01:35:15
Speaker
But I'm really bad about messages.
01:35:17
Speaker
So like post on like an actual like like post or whatever or comment on an actual post and say that you messaged me and then I'll look for it.
01:35:27
Speaker
There you go.
01:35:28
Speaker
I'm terrible.
01:35:29
Speaker
And Scott, where can they find us?
01:35:32
Speaker
Actually, the easiest place is to message either of us on Facebook or LoserkidPinball.
01:35:39
Speaker
We also have an email, Josh, that goes to Josh.
01:35:42
Speaker
What is it?
01:35:43
Speaker
LoserkidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
01:35:46
Speaker
All right.
01:35:47
Speaker
And, oh, lastly, let's.
01:35:50
Speaker
Yeah.
01:35:50
Speaker
Well, I I'm sorry.
01:35:51
Speaker
I apologize.
01:35:52
Speaker
I want to add one thing.
01:35:53
Speaker
Let's not forget about the go.
01:35:56
Speaker
If you need a pinball machine, go to flipping out.
01:35:59
Speaker
Talk to Zach Meany at flipping out.
01:36:02
Speaker
Oh, man, I totally forgot to talk about that.
01:36:04
Speaker
Hey, and we, as any special, very special guest, it's a very special episode, we will send you out a hat.
01:36:12
Speaker
And we do have some.
01:36:14
Speaker
We haven't been pushing them lately, but we do have hats and beanies, and it's getting to be winter season.
01:36:19
Speaker
So if you're interested, contact us, and we can get you one of those boss hats or beanies out.
01:36:25
Speaker
And I'll throw a grab bag of stickers in there because I've been getting them from Sticker Mule because they're cheap and fun.
01:36:32
Speaker
So I want to go to sticker robot.
01:36:34
Speaker
Anyway, go on.
01:36:35
Speaker
No, it's sticking.
01:36:36
Speaker
No, I, um, I, I will return the favor.
01:36:38
Speaker
I've got goodies.
01:36:40
Speaker
Nice.
01:36:40
Speaker
Awesome.
01:36:42
Speaker
I want to end it on one thing.
01:36:43
Speaker
This is, I want me a 30 second answer.
01:36:46
Speaker
You got to pick between your two children, Avengers or TH mutated turtles by the golden standard.
01:36:54
Speaker
Which one are you giving the twippy this year?
01:36:56
Speaker
Oh Lord.
01:36:59
Speaker
I, man, I'm not, neither, neither.
01:37:03
Speaker
It's going to go to something else.
01:37:04
Speaker
I don't, I don't know.
01:37:05
Speaker
I listen, I don't care.
01:37:06
Speaker
No, I'm not saying if it goes to some of the odds, if you had to pick, if you, if you had to pick between the two projects, yes, if you had to pick between the two projects, which one are you giving it to?
01:37:16
Speaker
Oh, geez.
01:37:17
Speaker
I can't.
01:37:18
Speaker
I can't.
01:37:19
Speaker
That's like asking, like, which one of your kids is your favorite?
01:37:23
Speaker
My middle kid.
01:37:25
Speaker
Oh, he's got a choice?
01:37:28
Speaker
Awful.
01:37:29
Speaker
Terrible.
01:37:29
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay.
01:37:30
Speaker
He's actually not my favorite kid, but I know, like, when I'm in a retirement center, he's the one who's going to come and take care of me.
01:37:36
Speaker
So he's my sweetest kid.
01:37:38
Speaker
My other ones would be like, whatever, Dad.
01:37:40
Speaker
Peace out.
01:37:42
Speaker
Poor kid.
01:37:44
Speaker
What a wonderful note.
01:37:46
Speaker
So you doubled down on just first off, you picked a kid, then you doubled down and said, no, he's not my favorite.
01:37:52
Speaker
No, no, no.
01:37:53
Speaker
No, what I said is that I don't have a favorite kid, but he's the one who's going to take care of me.
01:37:58
Speaker
Oh, okay, that's better.
01:38:00
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:38:00
Speaker
I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
01:38:05
Speaker
That is a wonderful note.
01:38:06
Speaker
We're going to end it there.
01:38:07
Speaker
Thank you so much, Zombie Yeti, for coming on.
01:38:09
Speaker
We really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to come hang out with some schmucks like us.
01:38:14
Speaker
Would you believe I was working the whole time?
01:38:16
Speaker
But go on, yes.
01:38:17
Speaker
Yes, I believe nonstop.
01:38:20
Speaker
It's 11 o'clock where you're at, and you're still just penciling away on the next project.
01:38:23
Speaker
Well, it's the Tony Hawk re-theme.
01:38:25
Speaker
We all know.
01:38:26
Speaker
No, it's just a pitch.
01:38:27
Speaker
No, I'm kidding.
01:38:29
Speaker
No, it's not that.
01:38:30
Speaker
I wish it was.
01:38:33
Speaker
Well, you've got us all sold.
01:38:34
Speaker
Okay, good.
01:38:36
Speaker
Oh, and by the way, could you guys possibly get like a certified letter talking about all that stuff about I should be paid lots of money and junk like that?
01:38:44
Speaker
Could you get that?
01:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
01:38:46
Speaker
Yeah, we have a lot of sway with Stern.
01:38:47
Speaker
Sure.
01:38:48
Speaker
Listen, I'm well taken care of.
01:38:50
Speaker
Stern's very kind to me.
01:38:51
Speaker
Otherwise, I wouldn't be smart.
01:38:53
Speaker
No, no.
01:38:53
Speaker
They're very kind to me.
01:38:54
Speaker
They're very nice.
01:38:56
Speaker
Well, thank you again for coming on.