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Episode 9: Understanding Your Child’s Emotional Journey After a Type 1 Diagnosis with Angie Manske
78 Plays2 months ago
Welcome back to the Type 1 Club Podcast! This week, Jacqui is joined once again by Angie Manske, founder of Reflective Haven, a diabetes-specialized counselling service. Angie is a mental health social worker, trained psychotherapist, and passionate advocate for supporting children’s emotional well-being through their type 1 diabetes journey.
In this episode, Jacqui and Angie discuss:
✅ The emotional impact of a type 1 diabetes diagnosis on children
✅ How different diagnosis experiences (ICU vs. early detection) shape their response
✅ Recognizing medical trauma and its long-term effects
✅ The importance of movement and creative activities in managing hospital anxiety
✅ Practical ways parents can support their children’s nervous system regulation
Jacqui also shares her own experience with her son, Harvey, and how simple strategies—like playing basketball outside the hospital—helped him manage stress during clinic visits.
This conversation is packed with insights for parents navigating a new diagnosis or looking to better understand their child’s emotional world.
Further Information about Angie Manske:
Reflective Haven Website
Follow Angie on Instagram
Follow Angie on Facebook
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with anyone who might benefit from the Type 1 Foundation’s message.
Further Resources:
Type 1 Foundation Website
Follow us on Instagram
Join the Facebook Group
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Transcript
Introduction and Disclaimer
00:00:00
Speaker
The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Reliance on any information provided by this podcast is solely at your own risk.
Welcome to the Type 1 Club
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Type 1 Club. Whether you're a parent grappling with a new diagnosis, a caregiver seeking guidance, or simply someone wanting to learn more about Type 1 diabetes, this podcast is for you.
00:00:36
Speaker
Together, let's dispel myths, break down barriers, and build a community of understanding and resilience. Join us as we embark on this journey together, because with knowledge, compassion, and support, no one should ever feel alone in managing Type 1 diabetes. Welcome to the Type 1 Club.
Meet the Hosts: Jackie and Angie
00:01:00
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Type 1 Club. I am Jackie Kidman. And for this week's episode, we are once again joined by Angie Manske. So Angie, I want to thank you again for coming on to the podcast and welcome. Thank you for having me.
00:01:20
Speaker
I love joining these conversations. And just before we go on, everyone should know that we have the biggest list and then we try and work out what we should focus on because we we're both very passionate about helping parents in this space. So my name's Angie. I'm the founder of Reflective Haven, which is a diabetes specialized counseling service.
00:01:41
Speaker
that is offered all around the country because everything's online, either Zoom or phone. I'm a mental health social worker and a trained psychotherapist. I'm very passionate about art therapy and helping children to understand their nervous system, especially in the diabetes space. And I've worked in type one for 15 years. So I've seen all the technology change and all the kids grow up and it's a real pleasure to be here today.
00:02:10
Speaker
It's just, every time I'm just amazed, every time I hear your intro, I'm just like, wow. like And yes, you must have seen such a change in 15 years.
Children's Diagnosis Experiences
00:02:19
Speaker
like yeah yeah So this week, we are going to try and touch on the topic of when children are diagnosed and what's going through.
00:02:33
Speaker
what's going through their bodies, their minds for them, mainly their minds and their, but we know what's sort of going through their bodies, but I guess it's more around how are they feeling and what we can do to support support them. I mean, I can only give my advice on, not advice, but my experience on what I was going through, but i was as I was saying to you, Angie, I was very conscious about if this is what I'm going through, what's my little boy going through.
00:03:02
Speaker
don have to um deal with this. And that's still ongoing. I still get those kind of nights of this is really hard. When are we finding a cure? Why do I have to have diabetes and nobody else, you know, have my friends do that sort of stuff. So we thought it's really important to kind of just get some understanding of what our kids are going through and how we can better support them, I guess. Yeah.
Navigating Trauma and Anxiety
00:03:29
Speaker
So let's start at the beginning of diagnosis. Everyone has a different story in terms of how they get diagnosed. So some families and you know, children will come through the ED system in DKA and they can become very, very sick and end up in ICU.
00:03:47
Speaker
which is very confronting for everybody involved. And then there's other families that have been lucky enough where they've had a GP pick it up early, or maybe their parents had some mix experience with type one. And so there's difficulties with both, because even with the one that looks easier, the child gets quite confused, like, I'm not sick, why are you giving me these needles?
00:04:12
Speaker
They can be in the honeymoon phase for longer. So just working out what their body needs can be even more confusing. I've even had children start off with with insulin that have to pretty much go completely off it because they've got so much insulin still on board. And then two months later have needles again. And then the child thinks, well, I went off it before. So when's my next chance? So that's really confusing.
00:04:37
Speaker
for little people. And then the other side of it is being rushed to hospital through to ICU. And then for the parent to think, well, my child's almost died, they're looking very unwell, they've got labored breathing, the child gets held down. And it's all a huge whirlwind and they've not had any time to prepare the child for this, like any other surgery or medical procedure, even the vaccinations have probably had more time where you prepare them than this.
00:05:07
Speaker
And I think a lot of children end up coming out of that process with trauma and it's medical trauma. And then the parent gets quite stuck with what we have to keep visiting this hospital but all for treatment.
00:05:22
Speaker
And how do I do this? Cause my child has to go to this hospital to get care. So it's not a negotiable thing, but they're getting triggered by the sounds, by the people, by the smells, by being held down again. And they get concerned about that. You know, when you're looking at your child's experience and every family's experienced something different, but looking at it through a trauma lens means that we're on the right track in just appreciating their little bodies and their nervous system.
00:05:50
Speaker
entering into something quite shocking. As you were talking about that, I was thinking about when we do our hospital visits and something with our hospital has like a little outdoor kind of space. I don't always get happy to bring his basketball. And when we're waiting, we don't sit in that weight room and we we're outside kind of just bouncing the ball, moving our bodies, which helps me as much as it's helping him. It's really clever. But I didn't actually think about it like that. It was more just to pass the time.
00:06:19
Speaker
because I know that he's just like, ugh, why are we sitting here? And I just think rather than him sitting on an iPad, I prefer him to be kind of moving our bodies and talking about it, you know, because sometimes you can be there for three hours and it's just like, you know, like that just feels like forever for me, let alone for him. So yeah, yeah I didn't actually realize that connection and until you just said it then of kind of. Yeah, that's a really beautiful job. There's a reason why that is so like well done is because when our nervous system is on alert and when we enter a hospital, we're on alert. We're a bit anxious. We're not sure what's going to happen, especially if we're four years old or 10 years old. It's really hard to understand what clinic means. What are they going to do to me? And so when our body's in this fight and flight space, movement is really healing because they can't run away from the hospital and they can't fight the staff.
00:07:17
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but they've got adrenaline, they've got cortisol on board and their body doesn't really know what to do with that. It's just giving him or her all of this energy to protect themselves, but they're not really sure what against. So if you're playing basketball, if there's a playground outside and they're moving their bodies, then you're actually able to reduce and downgrade that nervous system response. So then when their name is called, there'll be less intensity around that.
00:07:45
Speaker
been able to actually save the body. Well, I must be moving away from the problem because I'm running around. And so the body is like, oh, you're exerting the energy. You must be running away from your problem. And it just puts them in a calmer state when they go into the room. If you don't have the pleasure of having an outdoor space, then bringing art and getting them to create activates both hemispheres of the brain just naturally, especially if you're doing any bilateral work, which means using two hands, like a Play-Doh or anything like that.
00:08:15
Speaker
or, you know, collaging where you're cutting magazines and gluing. Because if we're activating both hemispheres of the brain, either through movement or something creative, then we're just downgrading that nervous system, giving them the phone, and then going to this, like they almost switch off and into this vortex of disconnect.
00:08:35
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is not healthy because once they get into that room and then they're overstimulated by people asking them questions and pricking them and weighing them and looking at their body, it's very invasive. And we don't want our little children to disconnect from their body, but to connect with their body and know that they are safe if
Art and Storytelling as Healing Tools
00:08:53
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with their parent.
00:08:54
Speaker
So in terms of a child gets diagnosed, whether they've been in ICU or whether they've come in a quite well and and it's a quick, all of a sudden this is something that I have to do for the rest of my life.
00:09:12
Speaker
Like it's just a whirlwind. So what's going on for them and how do we support them? Yeah. Harvey was little. So I think it was a bit easier for me. I think for a teenager, it would be a lot harder. So I think it'd be, must be for every age group it would be. Yeah. they said if There's difficulties for all of them from babies onwards. I think for young people, it's really important that they make sense of their story.
00:09:41
Speaker
So when they've been rushed into hospital, they might not even remember being held down. They might just get the sense of it. And then when you go to embrace them, they get anxious or overwhelmed. So there's like some sort of trigger that the body remembers, but they don't consciously remember. Or they may just be running around the house every time they have to have an injection and be fighting you and screaming. And both parents holding kids down or wrapping them up in blankets and finger pricking their toes and all of these things.
00:10:10
Speaker
can happen to families in the first you know few weeks or few months of diagnosis. And so the trauma can happen within the hospital, but because of the intensity of being held down and often the kids are quite dehydrated when they're newly diagnosed, so they can't find the vein um to put a drip in. So there's that complexity as well around needles. So their relationship with needles can start off quite jarring and intense.
00:10:39
Speaker
and a lot all at once as well. And so I think the important thing is, is that later when they're home and they're in the safety of being with their family and there's less intensity and less sensory overload, to get them to try to make sense of what happens through journaling, if they can write or to read stories from people around type 1 diabetes and for them to ask questions theyre along the way.
00:11:05
Speaker
or to make an art piece that says, you know, tell me about
Parents' Emotional Influence
00:11:08
Speaker
what it was like for you to be in hospital, what it was it like when you were diagnosed and just having it really open so they can draw whatever they want. And then that can lead you to more questions to see if they're confused about their diagnosis story. Or, you know, I had a little kid that said, well, I'm contagious, so that's why my brother can't play with me. And he had held that in his little heart for like half a year and no one knew.
00:11:35
Speaker
And so you just don't know what's happening within them, but art and play is a child's language. So we really want to meet them at that level and just be playing with them. It might be medical play where you're the person that's unwell and they're the doctor and just seeing how they respond to you, their approaches to things. You kind of get a sense to their inner world and what's happening unconsciously. And then you'll know then what you need to do next to kind of support them in understanding what's happening for them. We were talking actually last night with Harvey about when he was first diagnosed and I was saying to him, what do you remember of that time? And he can actually only remember me driving home from the GP to our house to and me calling my best friend to get my older brother picked up from school. That's all he can really remember. I said to him, do you remember what mummy was doing? And he was like,
00:12:32
Speaker
which is helpful because I cried the whole time and I was hysterical. So I'm feeling like, you know, that I i damaged him. yeah um So it's quite helpful that I was like, okay, he doesn't actually doesn't remember any of that. But it is that perspective of, I guess, what we feel and witness can be very different to what they are feeling and witnessing. yeah But it's important to still hear each other's stories.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yes, yes. And it doesn't mean that you need to tell him, well, I was crying hysterically on the floor. You don't need to fill the gap. No, no. like But we also need to acknowledge that their body remembers. So he doesn't consciously remember because it was traumatic. And the brain does that to protect him. It doesn't mean that his body doesn't remember. So if he sees you getting upset, it might be a bit of a trigger for him. And he might start getting really upset where maybe before he wouldn't have.
00:13:26
Speaker
And you can start to be just a bit more aware of his sensitivity around your emotions. And just being, you know, connecting with, you know, mommy was crying because of, you know, dot, dot, dot.
Effective Communication Strategies
00:13:38
Speaker
I noticed that you were quite upset when you saw me like this. I'm okay. Come give me a hug. It's normal to cry when we're feeling overwhelmed, but I'm okay. You know, is there anything you want to ask me and just holding their little bodies and just chipping in with them? Wow. Yeah.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. There have been a few moments like that actually that, yeah, like if I'm upset about something and then he gets, even his brother, if his brother's upset, he gets upset. So that's, that's interesting. So there's probably a bit of work that we need to do with him around that as well. Yeah. And it's, it's, and it's a normal process that they don't want, no one wants to see anyone upset. And he's obviously a very empathetic young boy.
00:14:19
Speaker
And it's just about him making sense of these stories. a And because someone's upset, it doesn't mean it's something he has done because kids are very egocentric. So the world revolves around them. If mum's tired, it must be because of my diabetes, not because life is tiring. And so they make it about their diabetes or they make it about themselves. And it's just important to just sometimes state the obvious.
00:14:42
Speaker
I'm tired because of my work or I'm tired because of this. Oh yeah, the diabetes annoyed me last night, but it's got nothing to do with you. It's not about you doing anything wrong. You're just sleeping like a little boy should and just trying to externalize some of that for them so then they don't feel to blame.
00:15:02
Speaker
Don't ignore the four. The four early warning signs of type 1 diabetes, excessive thirst, frequent urination, unexplained weight loss, and extreme fatigue. If you or someone you know is experiencing these symptoms, don't wait. Get checked by a healthcare care professional. Early detection and treatment are key to managing type 1 diabetes effectively.
00:15:28
Speaker
And I think that is my kind of worry is that because there are some days when I'm not coping um because of his diabetes and so it's kind of just I'm very I'm well I'm trying to be conscious but I'm also exhausted at the same time so it's sort of that you know how how how well am I doing with sort of trying to mask the fact that you know yeah it was a really shit night and I'm exhausted and I'm a bit
00:15:59
Speaker
ah You know, I feel like I can't do this anymore kind of thing, but I know that that's something that, you know, I definitely can keep doing it and I will keep doing it, but it's a struggle, you know? Yeah, definitely. Um, and you know, sometimes families will help with the externalizing by naming the pump something like naming the pump Tommy. And so Tommy kept me up, kept bipping, kept being cheeky.
00:16:28
Speaker
And you know, you're making it a little bit playful, even though it's not really necessarily a funny thing. But it's just helping the child to be able to separate that it's not you that's kept me up. It's Tommy's little, you know, bip. Tommy just had to keep an eye on that. yeah um So that's something that parents can do to help externalize that. So it's not so much self blame.
00:16:55
Speaker
But what you mentioned before leads me to something that I think all parents need to be aware of is when we are having a hard time and our nervous system is, you know, having some difficulty and we're feeling more on alert that just to be really mindful of our body language and our tone of voice, because our body language and our tone of voice is the bridge to us. And so the children will constantly be accessing this.
00:17:20
Speaker
They're constantly filtering it. They're constantly analyzing it on an unconscious level. Their body will respond to it. They look into your eyes and they'll know if you're okay or if you're not. Even newborn babies look into the mother's eyes and look at the dilation and they can see the baby's nervous system will respond to the mother's dilation of the eyes. So even since they're infants, they're looking at reading the mother and the father around. Am I safe or am I not safe?
00:17:51
Speaker
Are you okay? Because if you're not okay, I'm not okay. So even if we're freaking out, which is a normal parent experience, for us to just slow down our voice, to have really good eye contact, to take a deep breath before we go into their room and, you know, treat a hypo.
00:18:10
Speaker
not to rush and run, but to walk, to show the confidence and that I've got this because that's all they want to know is that you've got them. And that's not just for diabetes related kind of stuff. That's very everything. Yeah, absolutely. It's so true because sometimes, you know, when you kind of like that you can feel yourself a bit out of control and then you're like, oh, hang on. Then it's feeding, everyone's feeding off each other and it's like, okay, okay, okay. Yes. Yes. It's contagious. It's like a manic energy that people can experience. Well, that's, you've great points and already kind of great kind of strategies that way, you know, can easily, easily sort of change our behaviors and stuff in order to support our little people. Another thing is in terms of trauma proofing our children,
00:19:00
Speaker
So preparing them for the present and the future is really trying to teach them about their nervous system. So depending on their age, you can do this in different ways. Like I have a five year old and a seven year old and they know about the amygdala in their brain. They know that the amygdala is about the alert system and it's like a smoke alarm. But the smoke alarm doesn't know the difference between burnt toast and a house burning down. It'll just alarm our bodies to say, hmm, there's something you need to be a little bit aware of.
00:19:30
Speaker
And for their little systems, you know, like say dropping them off at a new school or something new and they're feeling nervous, my children will say, my amygdala is saying this isn't safe. I'm feeling nervous. I'd say, well, the amygdala sometimes gets it wrong. Let's check in and look at the facts. Now this is a safe place because sometimes the amygdala is right and something is unsafe. But in this sense, it's okay. And so what we can do is dig digooit to prepare ourselves and we can go in.
00:20:01
Speaker
And so at that age, they have an understanding that there's a part of the brain that tries to alert them. And sometimes that can be useful and sometimes it cannot be useful. And to really just have that connection with our body that our body's always trying to keep us safe. It doesn't necessarily always know when that's the right time. So when an injection's coming, of course the body's going to be on alert and the meat doesn't say, no, this isn't safe because it hurts.
00:20:30
Speaker
And, but we know that this actually does keep us safe because it has things inside that that will um help our bodies grow and help our bodies run really fast. And this is where it's really important to not have any like fear tactics around, but you need to take this needle. Otherwise, you know, bad things are going to happen to your body or you're going to go back to hospital. We don't want to be using threats as the motivation and the best of parents I have met.
00:20:59
Speaker
have gone there because they get so desperate. They don't know how to motivate their child at two o'clock in the morning to have an injection or do a set change because the pump's failed. But we have to take it from the angle of compassion and this is what you need to keep safe and to hold them and help them co you know you for you to co-regulate them and be a scaffolding for their nervous system. And looking at all the sensory things to keep them comfortable like smell,
00:21:27
Speaker
um what they're touching, you know, how they feel contained in that environment to feel safe and in control, maybe looking at something else, because we really don't want them to be so fearful of the diabetes. And it might work in the short term, you might get them to have their injections for a day or two, and then it wears off. And then they just fight you again. And this goes for teenagers too. I'll take your phone off you if you don't look after your diabetes.
00:21:56
Speaker
Eventually it'll wear off and they're like, I don't care. You can have my phone. I'm not looking after my diabetes. And they walk out. So this is why it's really important at a young age for them to have a lot of good compassion for themselves, good self-esteem, good awareness of their nervous system, really healthy attachment with mum and dad. So they don't get to that space where everyone's just threatening each other to be motivated.
00:22:23
Speaker
Hmm.
Fostering Independence in Children
00:22:24
Speaker
Wow. I can imagine, I have read like on like um diabetes pages of like that, the kids that are just refusing. Do you find that's very common for like a certain age group or? I think just they get burnt out by it. Yeah. Like it can be novel in the beginning and sometimes you kind of get your best compliance in the beginning, like anything. Like imagine trying to start a diet and you do really well and then you're like, I'm over this now.
00:22:53
Speaker
but these kids have to keep motivated forever. So it's going to wear and it goes through its moments and different things happen in life that can make it more difficult like you're changing schools or your best friend doesn't like you anymore. um Or there's lots of exams and you have to keep up the chronic illness as well as all these things in life as well. And so just having compassion that there's going to be waves of being more focused than not. And that's where we just, okay, what can I do to help? I'm going to write the cards down for dinner, even though, you know, they can work that out. I remember this one girl said to a stepdad, I just want you to put in, I can't even press the buttons anymore. I'm so sick of looking at it. And the stepdad's like, no problems. I didn't know that you would want me to even do that. And so every time they had dinner and breakfast, he would bowl us for her. And they just need more support, not like, let's make you really independent. And then we feel like we're in control.
00:23:49
Speaker
but then they're hyper independent and then they burn out quick. So we just want to always let them know that where they're here to support them no matter what. Yeah. It's such a balancing act, isn't it? Because yeah, I can already think of a few scenarios that we've kind of gone through in terms of play dates or, you know, things like that. And Harvey just going off and giving himself insulin and you know, you kind of go like, wow, like that's amazing. But at the same time, you know, you might've over kind of he's sort of given himself a bit too much um or not enough or, you know, those sort of stuff. So then it's kind of coming, kind of bringing you back home and kind of saying like, you did a really great job, and you know, but sometimes you don't want to go too much into it. You just want to say, you just did a great job. Just leave it at that. Or, but there are some times when you're kind of like, do you think you forgot something when you went to that party or, you know, that sort of stuff. And I guess as a parent, I know that I feel like I can take on a lot more responsibility that
00:24:45
Speaker
for him, because I know he's going to have it for the rest of his life. But it's interesting when you use that teenage, because I'm kind of just thinking, well, when he's a teenager, I'll just be doing reminders of it for him. But maybe it will still be that dependence. So I find that a bit difficult. And maybe that's something that we will do in it another podcast is, and I know I've spoken with um with Ang about this, is that when is it time to kind of go, OK, you're on your own or Yeah. Is there ever a time? I don't know. I think it has a parent. There's definitely a time. I know that some of the the adults with type one, they're in their twenties. I counsel them as well. And they've said to me, I don't want my mom even tracking me on my CGM. I just want to do my own thing, but maybe when I'm going out, I'll tell her you can, I'll let you connect to it because I'm going out all night.
00:25:39
Speaker
I'll be drinking. yeah So they have that kind of relationship and they live on their own, they go to uni, they do their own life, they have their own appointments. And then other other people might be still living at home, especially these days because everything's expensive. But that might shift things where you might be checking on their supplies and just seeing, you know, what do you need? and I think always, you know, checking in to see what they, what it looks like for them. So some people in their early twenties don't want their parents coming to their appointments. And other times they say, I actually really want you in there, mum, because I find it a bit intimidating. and I haven't learnt those skills to be assertive yet. Each child's different. Each young adult is different. It's just about working out what they need to have their independence, of course, but also they know that you've always there to support them.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, Angie, that's so good. I feel like you've given us so much gold. Like, ah um I can't wait to listen back and of know kind of sort of tap into a little bit more of of that sort of stuff. And I know that we can continue to keep talking, but we want to keep these episodes short um and then have opportunity to extend at a later date.
00:26:48
Speaker
So I'm really appreciative of what you've provided us at the moment. But you've got something else that you're you're you're you're also running that could also give you another support for families.
Angie's Art and Nature Program
00:27:01
Speaker
i that Thank you. I have a lot of parents that ask me how I can be involved in their child's life in terms of supporting them. And it's tricky because I'm in Queensland and these kids are all over the country.
00:27:17
Speaker
So I've recently launched a program that I call the Joyful Child Within and it's art and nature based. And each month we choose a topic, for example, our nervous system or anxiety around diabetes. They get a little postcard sent to them in the mail, it's personally addressed to them.
00:27:37
Speaker
a little list of art materials and things in the garden that they need to collect for their session. And then once a month, we get on with kids from all across the country and we talk about what it's like for them to have diabetes, some tools and strategies to unpack that and to support them.
00:27:54
Speaker
They can get on with their parents. It's for five to 10 year olds. It's a subscription based. So we try and get the same little friends online every month so they can build some of those connections. Sometimes the kids bring their dogs on and their lizards and we meet their siblings and some kids are in the farms and some kids are in the city and it's quite fun. And some parents get right up, well, will my five year old pay attention?
00:28:18
Speaker
But you'll be surprised. We have a lot of games and there's a lot of laughter as well as a lot of, you know, real conversations. So if you want to check that out, just go to my website and look under Type 1 Kids Groups and then you can join from there. And I think the biggest takeaway that I'd like to leave you with is that for children, their connection is art, play and nature.
00:28:44
Speaker
So just remembering those three things that nature is free and you know making art is cheap and play costs nothing.
Closing Thoughts and Resources
00:28:54
Speaker
So sometimes you just need to get down on the carpet and just play with them and cuddle them and read them stories and help them have that little time for their nervous system to reset and just tell you what's happening.
00:29:06
Speaker
And it's so beneficial for us as parents too, I think, to do that stuff as well. like it's it's a double It's a double win, really, I think. ah Angie, thank you so much. We'll put all that details in the show notes. But once again, thank you so much for being here. I think that the information you've given us has been invaluable, and I know that our community is going to get so much out of this. So thank you again. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
00:29:35
Speaker
Thank you for tuning in to the Type 1 Club podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's episode and gained some valuable insights. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on all the platforms so you never miss an episode. We also appreciate it if you could leave us a rating and review. It really helps us to reach more listeners just like yourselves.
00:29:55
Speaker
For more updates, behind the scene content, and to join the conversation further, follow us on Instagram and Facebook, the Type 1 Foundation, or visit our website, type1foundation.com.au. Thanks again for listening, and we will see you next time on the Type 1 Club.
00:30:15
Speaker
are