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Neuroplasticity
18 Plays7 days ago
This Neuroblast episode debunks the myth that brain plasticity ends after adolescence. Hosts Athena and Tracey explore how the brain continues to adapt, learn, and recover throughout life. They discuss scientific findings, the harmful effects of this myth, and practical ways to support lifelong neuroplasticity and cognitive growth.
Original music by: Julian Starr
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Transcript
Introduction to Nerd Blast Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi there! Welcome to Neuroblast !
00:00:17
Speaker
I'm Athena Stevens, proud the owner, operator, and caretaker of a slightly damaged brain. And I'm Tracey Tokuhama- Espinosa.
00:00:29
Speaker
I'm an international educational consultant, and I teach a course at Harvard University called the neuroscience of learning.
Is Brain Plasticity Only Valuable Until Adolescence?
00:00:36
Speaker
And today are tackling a myth that builds on from last week, that the brain is plastic and valuable into adolescence.
00:00:48
Speaker
So here we are, you thought you were done growing, just like every single teenager thinks they know everything. And we are back learning similar lessons again.
00:01:02
Speaker
What's going on here, Tracy? Well, we used to think that kids, you know, they finish ah through high school, all teenagers go a little bit crazy, and then that's it. It's all downhill from there as far as learning is concerned.
00:01:18
Speaker
But what we now know is that the brain is neuroplastic until you die. You will learn throughout the lifespan. Now, okay, is this... the teenagers fault? -- - Because they think they know everything.
00:01:34
Speaker
Is there a reason why we believed in this myth other than teenagers think they know everything?
Adolescent Brain Reorganization and Its Impact
00:01:42
Speaker
Well, there is a wonderful backstory to all of this, which is um really hovers around an excellent neuroscientist from UCLA. His name is Jay Gieed.
00:01:53
Speaker
And he, at the time, was one of the first people to actually do a longitudinal study looking at pre-adolescent brains, adolescent brains and as they grew. And he, as he was doing these studies, he would say, oh my gosh, the adolescent brain is really reorganizing its stuff. This explains kind of the craziness of the brain. And look at all these changes in what the hormones do as far as decision making. And these neural networks are not really seeming to be connected until later on. And so he's the one who sort of laid it out for us.
00:02:26
Speaker
um that there were constant changes and wild changes in the adolescent brain that sort of rivaled early childhood. And as he studied um the brains, he kept looking and seeing how they would ah adapt and change and and throughout life,
00:02:44
Speaker
throughout adolescence. And so he's, he's, I don't want to say that that he's to blame, but you know, there was that point in the late 80s where we upped our car insurance on people until they were 25.
00:02:55
Speaker
Basically, there was a statement there that the adolescent brain is still reorganizing itself until, you know, the mid twenties. And it's true, but it's actually not the whole story.
00:03:09
Speaker
If you think about it, what else do we stop doing in our early 20s? What do most people stop doing in their early 20s? Any ideas there, Athena?
Societal Norms and Lifelong Learning
00:03:18
Speaker
I do, but I took class.
00:03:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:23
Speaker
So in our early 20s, people just stopped studying. And so basically, ah this wild new organ- reorganization of the brain seemed to stop because what he was looking at in most people's brains is that they were no longer formally studying or challenging themselves or learning new things. And so...
00:03:42
Speaker
It's not that the brain couldn't do that. It's just that typically because of society, the way we structure things, it stops learning and so it stops making all these new wild connections. And so adolescence appears to be this peak time of so many changes and it is true. There's a big shift in hormones which changes our emotional states and so that is true.
00:04:03
Speaker
But most teenagers do not go you know absolutely crazy and you can and do learn well beyond um the adolescent years.
The ABCD Project and Adolescent Development
00:04:12
Speaker
And so that was something that now, Jay Gieed is running one of the, it's called the ABCD project, the Adolescent Brain and Cognitive Development Project,
00:04:23
Speaker
which is looking into these wonderful longitudinal studies, trying to figure out um adolescent behavior and risky behavior and what what are all the more complex factors that go into um having people make the decisions that they do about their lives and, and whether or not they continue to learn later on into life. And so what we know now is that the adolescent brain, yes, is learning through, you know, very, very um intensely, but it doesn't stop there.
Evolution of Adult Education and Lifelong Learning
00:04:51
Speaker
If you continue, as you and I have, you know, throughout your whole life to continue to study and research and learn, your brain remains neuroplastic. You continue to learn throughout the lifespan. - So let's just talk for a minute about how this has potentially - poorly affected adult education.
00:05:13
Speaker
Because you and I met through Harvard Extension School, which was known as the night school. That's why Harvard Extension School has a lamp on its shield. What do you call that? Emblem.
00:05:30
Speaker
Um, but - adult education, seems like when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s it was not nearly taken as seriously as it is now.
00:05:46
Speaker
But maybe that's because I thought I knew everything because I was a teenager. Has that changed? That has changed a lot because before, in the night school was really for people who had to work in the day.
00:06:01
Speaker
And so you had the Extension School, which typically did things later on in the evening so that people could go to work and still continue their education, which was really a wonderful thing to think about doing.
00:06:14
Speaker
But um many people did it um out of interest. A lot of people did it out of necessity. And nowadays, we've actually changed the whole terminology around that, right? Now we call this upskilling. You have to stay on top of your game. And so even if you're a wonderful you know business executive, you should go back and get that certificate in the newest and greatest thing in your field, whatever. So we know that people now are continuing to go back to school for practical reasons.
00:06:41
Speaker
But one of the most fascinating things, I think, is that in adult education now, you're seeing so many people um The average age of our enrollees now is in the 30s, which, you know, before it used to be people who had to, you know, out of high school would go to work and then go to school and take classes afterwards.
00:07:02
Speaker
Now we're getting more and more people who are 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and one of the biggest growing population, believe it or not, are retirees. So we're getting a whole lot of people who now are not necessarily going back because they need to upskill because of their jobs, but they're going back because they know that it's good for your brain. It's good for your livelihood. It's good for keeping you know mentally aware and fit.
00:07:28
Speaker
Um, and also we find there's a whole lot of people who come back and they say, well, finally, I'm retired and now I can do what I want. Now I can study what I really wanted to do. I'm, I've always thought about doing this, but I never got the chance. And so now they they couple this with the reality that you can and do learn throughout the lifespan and they know that staying cognitively fit is a big part about healthy aging.
00:07:54
Speaker
And so more and more people are taking more and more classes. And degree um earning students are getting older and older. And that is just the fact of life. People are living longer. And they also, you know, if you retire at 65, 70, and you're going to have another good, you know, 10, 20, 30 years there, what do you do?
00:08:14
Speaker
Well, a lot of very good people are coming back to school and are really enriching our classrooms because they have so much more life experience to share as well. So we know that you can and do learn throughout the lifespan and that it definitely is possible to learn you know very complex ideas into old age.
00:08:34
Speaker
Can you talk to me about some studies that have shown that learning happens throughout the lifetime?
The Role of Lifelong Learning in Cognitive Aging
00:08:44
Speaker
So in the studies that I mentioned, that um this part of the series of the ABCD studies that look at adolescents, the National Institutes of Health have also looked into not only cognitive aging, how does the brain get older, but the field of geriatric psychology is actually really exploding right now because more and more people are living longer.
00:09:10
Speaker
But having quality of life into old age means a lot of different things, including these ideas of of how do you, you know, take care of your mind and body as you grow older. um It's, you know, again, go back to this idea that we said before a couple weeks back, you know, use it or lose it. And it's really important that you stay fit. So some of the studies that are really - strong- There's a wonderful program at - NYU in geriatric psychology that actually looks into a lot of aging studies. But if you look in the term cognitive aging in Google Scholar, for example, or if you look at any university library, you'll see that there's a growing number of publications in this space.
00:09:58
Speaker
As there are a lot of, you know, popular press books too, there's a lot of things about super aging these days. Um, things about, you know, diet, nutrition, and other things that help you stay fit throughout the lifespan. But it's not just one single thing. So anytime you see something that looks too easy, it's probably a myth.
00:10:18
Speaker
So don't just go for the simple answers. It's a real complex mix of things, how physically active we are, how mentally active we are, how well we eat, how well we sleep, all of these things together um are very important, as is ah social interaction, um being with other people, staying in the world, and not just, you know, okay, I'm old, I'm going to stay at home, and sort of shelter in and just, you know, be friends with my TV. But having those social contacts is a huge part of healthy aging.
00:10:50
Speaker
So one of my favorite quotes by John Adams, second president of the United States, is, I must study politics and war that my children may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.
Maintaining Curiosity and Neuroplasticity
00:11:09
Speaker
My children ought to study mathematics, philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, and commerce and in order to give their children the right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.
00:11:35
Speaker
What we have really seen with this evidence is you can do that all in your your lifetime. That's true. And it's really, um it's even yeah only within the past, you know, 100 years have we really had this luxury of being able to have this choice, right? A lot of people feel that they have to fall into the the very first profession they can get because they need to pay the bills. And that's still the case for so many people, right? And so just trying to see and imagine all of the different things we can study and learn is a really wonderful way to you know approach the world um with ah wonder and awe. This is what Costa and Kallick call a great habit of mind. Can you just approach the world with wonder and awe? How can you just find everything so interesting and fascinating that you would just love to to study and learn more about it?
00:12:29
Speaker
And this can be formally or informally. Neuroplasticity in the brain is learning, period. It doesn't matter if you do it in school or if you do it on your own or if you're reading a book or you're exchanging ideas with just a person on the street.
00:12:42
Speaker
The idea is that you have to remain active and try to take in new information every day. That's ah that's a key point in in in aging. It really is going back to just engaging, isn't it?
00:12:57
Speaker
Engaging with the world around you. Engaging with what scares you. Engaging with new opportunities that present themselves. Gone is the days when you have a single vocation that you are expert in.
00:13:15
Speaker
That's absolutely right. And it actually is truer now than it ever
Adapting to Change: AI, Technology, and Neuroplasticity
00:13:20
Speaker
was before. When we talk about this word of upskilling or how people have to change or get or gain new kinds of skill sets for their jobs, right now, industries are changing so quick, so fast due to AI and -
00:13:35
Speaker
and other, you know, transformations that technology is sort of, you know, inserting itself into our society, it's changing um so many different industries. And to stay relevant, we do need to stay on top of new information and how we learn. And what's fascinating is that this reminds us of this kind of a, there's two huge concepts of neuroplasticity.
00:13:58
Speaker
Before we used to talk about neuroplasticity as, say you have damage and then you're able to recuperate. Well, that's neuroplasticity. But neuroplasticity is actually any kind of learning that your brain does. So whether it's relearning an old skill or it's learning a whole new skill, the mechanisms are pretty much the same in the brain. So the way your brain takes on new information or modifies old information um is true throughout the lifespan, whether or not you're trying to, you know, relearn a lost skill, maybe because of brain injury or damage, or if you're taking on a whole new skill set for a job that you want to change into. So um neuroplasticity exists in the same kind of a mechanism throughout your lifespan.
00:14:43
Speaker
And final question for you, Tracey, for this episode.
Affordable Education and Motivation in Learning
00:14:48
Speaker
Our listeners obviously know what podcasts are. That is how they find us.
00:14:55
Speaker
um But... To the listeners that go, I can't afford take an Extension School class at Harvard.
00:15:07
Speaker
I'm in the middle of nowhere. I would love to learn and have structure. How can they have that structure? - That accountability that so many of us need to keep out of our comfort zone and keep growing.
00:15:25
Speaker
That's a really great question. And different people have found different ways to respond to that. One of the ways that the industry has tried to to look at this is is creating things like MOOCs, like Massive Online Open Courses, which are free and available to people. But they require a high level of autonomy and self-regulation and making sure you make it through course and push yourself through every every level.
00:15:50
Speaker
What, there's a nice happy medium there of, you know, if I can't afford taking this this Harvard course online, maybe I could do the free, you know, Coursera course online, but I need something in between. I need to have that push. I need to have um people that helped me, you know, move forward. And so there's a lot of huge research going on looking at educational technology and instructional design, the way you create courses and keep people motivated to go back.
00:16:20
Speaker
And so much of it is, as you say, Athena, creating those smaller communities that push each other to get to the finish line. And that's a really interesting thing to work within cohorts and to have sort of teams working together to sort of come um different aspects of the course. So design is helping in that. um The availability of courses is there.
00:16:43
Speaker
If you don't have the personal motivation to do it and you know that you need other people to nudge you, it's really good to find those kinds of courses in which um the instructional design is taken into consideration, how to keep you motivated. um And that's getting better and better every day. I mean, COVID was an absolute horrible thing, but It actually gave birth to so many wonderful inventions as far as how to keep people who might be isolated in community and learning throughout the lifespan.
The Importance of Attitude in Lifelong Learning
00:17:14
Speaker
So again, if you're thinking about taking ah class online or with community college or just, you know, in a local community hall, Tracey I are here to be the voices in your ear - saying,
00:17:32
Speaker
Do it. Just do it. It's so worth it and you can do it. And you can enjoy it. And I want to just want to throw in one more term, Athena, that I think you and I know really well.
00:17:46
Speaker
And it's called imposter, you know imposter syndrome. And one of the things that we work with our students on who take the Harvard class is that almost all of them feel like they shouldn't be there.
00:17:58
Speaker
It's a mistake. I don't know how I got in. I'm not sure what I'm doing in this class. I'll never be able to do what everybody else can do. And it's just not true. Everybody is so capable and able. And, you know, if you throw your passion into this, you know, behind these professional goals you might have in taking the courses, you're going to be just fine. But um so much of this has to do, it weighs in on your good - attitude towards being open to new learning more than your aptitude of, I'm not sure if I can manage this technology or this new information.
00:18:31
Speaker
Attitude really ah is is a huge piece of this. And I will give, say, one last word for self-regulation. We know that um through Moffat's work and others that, you know, being, having strong self-regulation is almost twice as important as innate intelligence in doing well in school. So actually being able to organize yourself and focus and decide this is my priority today and work on it, that's even more important than all you know just having the smarts. And so um keep that in mind as well. And hopefully your listeners, our listeners will be really open to the idea of joining into a new class and giving themselves the challenge of learning throughout the lifespan.
Conclusion: Encouragement to Keep Growing
00:19:15
Speaker
All right. Thank you all for joining us Neuroblast. Remembering your brain's - capacity to adapt is nearly limitless and beyond anything you can imagine.
00:19:30
Speaker
Keep growing, keep exploring, keep those neurons firing, and we will see you next time. Thank you.
00:19:52
Speaker
Bye.