Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast, where persistent perils have prompted plentiful pant wetting after five painful plummets on the bounce and seven pointless league pratfalls from ten. Puzzled punters passionately ponder, pursue patience with the project or press the panic button.
Speaker: I'm prepared to be persuaded either way by my pod pals and I hope they provide some profound, if not polarising, perspective.
Speaker: Claire, let me present you with three options. A, four games to save Phil's job. B, sack Napa immediately, whatever happens next. C, calm down, dear. It's all fine. No change is needed, even in the long term.
Speaker: I'd like to add a D to that because it's it's somewhere between... Well, no, we're not going to sack Phil after the next four games, no matter what happens. So we can just poo-poo that idea completely. The Ben Napa thing...
Speaker: my I'm not his biggest fan, but also I'm prepared to stick up for him because one of my absolute pet hates is that Norwich lose a game of football and everyone shouts Napa out. It is not his fault that we have lost that game of football.
Speaker: It's the player's fault and the manager's fault, but it is not Ben Napa's fault. Whatever happens behind the scenes, that individual game of football is not on him.
Speaker: So it's not that. C, calm down, dear. It's all fine. It's not all fine. It's absolutely not all fine. But yes, I am trying to stay calm and rational like I do. They're making it increasingly difficult to do that.
Speaker: But I think... We have had a really tough run of games. We should be up there with these top teams. And currently we are not.
Speaker: But there are fine margins. We are only losing these games by one goal. We're not getting absolutely tanked every week like Watford are. It's like one goal in it.
Speaker: We seem to have become a bit more compact and better defensively, but we're now sort of less fluid attacking-wise. But Phil will figure that out. And we've actually played six of the top eight teams in our first 10 games, it turns out.
Speaker: So I think the next five games on paper are a lot better in terms of being winnable. So let's see where we are after those five games.
Speaker: Because they're lower down the table because they haven't played us yet. there is Well, there is. I mean, yeah. The flip side of that is if we don't get much out of those games, then we really are in trouble.
Speaker: But I know we've not got actually got one more point, the same points as we had this time last year, but it feels very different. Like we're not that far away.
Speaker: We can play decent football. We just need to figure out that there's just something not quite right. But once we figure that out, I think we'll be OK. So I'm not panicking.
Speaker: and so should she hunt Punt, you're not you're not too dissimilar, I don't think, either. You're you're not panicking. you're quite You think that we're not that far away in terms of like the the odd goal that we're losing by at and the fact that you think we've played lots of really good teams. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, um I flip. I flip in between, look, we're only you know kind of a couple of decent moments a match away from from getting some decent results to is there something more fundamental if you scratch beneath the surface to this?
Speaker: um I think Claire's bang right. I think we've played three of the best sides the division currently has to offer and we've come up short. But actually, all all three of them,
Speaker: it It wouldn't have been massively untoward for us to get a point or even possibly when and we went three all against um Borough to to actually go and snatch it. You know, if there was one team that was going to go on to win that, you felt like it was going to be Norwich. They were in the ascendancy.
Speaker: But, and there is a but, I do think... I do think there's something off this season and I can't quite put my finger on it.
Speaker: And I've listened to a lot of podcasts and i've I've kind of had this swilling around my brain for some time. I don't know if the mix is right. I don't know if the mix of players are right. And I know the easy thing to say would be, well, it's exactly the same players pretty much as it was last season.
Speaker: But it's the leadership bit for me. And it's... And I think that's where you look at Napa and you go, has he signed any leaders? And I went i went through today um with all of Ben Napa's signings just for my own personal curiosity.
Speaker: And I looked at for every player that he signed, how many actually their market values have inflated. And I'm not sure that there's loads.
Speaker: Then I looked at how many leaders has he actually signed? And you can count them on one hand. And that's the thing that really worries me is that when you looked at maybe Norwich under Daniel Farker or Paul Lambert or you know successful teams, we were full of leaders, like absolutely chock full of leaders. you know In fact, Lambert would very specifically sign captains of other sides because he wanted those types of personalities there.
Speaker: I don't think we have them. And I don't think... While Kenny has always been part of the leadership group and has been a trusted senior leader at Norwich for some time, he can't do it on his own. And he's not I don't think he's that type of dynamic personality that could grab a dressing room on his own and do it. I think it's going to take two or three.
Speaker: And Mattson is stepping up and it looks like, you know, actually, I thought he's he's been really, really good the last couple of games. But again, he can't do it on his own. ah And I look around and I think the the two most obvious leaders, and look, all right, Napa has signed both of these lads, um would be McConville and Wright.
Speaker: But they're both under 21. So actually, how can you expect them to... to command a team or command a dressing whatever it be. But isn't that the side of it though, that we've deliberately signed so many young players? And I think that's another point that I wanted to make, Clare, so I'm glad you said because I'd forgotten, is that Clermont is at pains every single press conference to go, we've got the youngest side in the league, we've got youngest side in the league. And I thought that was him kind of going, look at us, this is our strategy. And now I wonder whether it's him going, here's the mitigation, we've got the youngest side in the league, and actually that's not my fault, because he has also said earlier in the season, I wanted to sign some more experienced players and it didn't quite work out like that. So I wonder whether he knows that something is slightly off as well.
Speaker: So... but to To bring it all the way around, I don't think we're far away and I think we are fully capable of getting results against certainly the lesser sides in the league.
Speaker: And I really, really expect us to do that against Pompey on Saturday. But that still doesn't detract from the wider point that I don't think the balance of the squad is quite right.
Speaker: One of the things about having lots of young players is you get a bit more rope but with your ah with your fans. know And that's one of the reasons why I was behind the Wilshere potential managerial appointment back when he was an option as caretaker, because I felt that...
Speaker: fans would feel that he was obviously learning with us and maybe it would be a more obvious project because even the manager is a project, let alone the squad, if you see what I mean. So I do think that there is a combo of the credit that he has built up from the fantastic work he did with that team last year and the fact that we do know that so many, like you say, you do have to remind yourself that Rory is, you know, a kid and that, you know, Jacob Wright is a kid. Um,
Speaker: And even players who you think are really established, like a Magoma or whatever, he's not 29. We were looking them all up yesterday. Jack Stacey's 30 and Grimshaw's 28. And aside from that, every player on the pitch was 25 or under.
Speaker: Yeah, you know they're not that they're not seasoned professionals with 500 games under their belt. And I think the the just to go back to what you said, Claire, about not panicking...
Speaker: As I said yesterday after the game straight away, i and I've said all along, I have learnt from sacking Farker. You know, something needed to change because so because we were not getting results. The players weren't able to put into practice what he was saying. Whatever it was, something needed to change in that team. But...
Speaker: What we changed was someone who definitely knew how to win football games at Norwich City at the level that we are used to to playing at. And i think with Philip Clement, it was a prolonged enough period of time with not the best squad at all.
Speaker: And I think he has been his own worst enemy by lifting our expectations and getting so much out of an average squad. And when you when you compare them to some of the technical ability on display against some of those better teams that we've played recently, there were three or four absolute Rolls Royces of players that we played last night against Southampton. You know, we don't have a Ward-Prowse in our team, right? Like Kenny, at his absolute peak of his powers is a Ward-Prowse.
Speaker: Wright might get there. Mattson's got some of those elements. But, you know, he is a he would get into every single midfield in in the league. Maybe Wolves or West Ham might be strong in that position. away But but you know the point is that Ward-Prowse is as good as most centre midfielders that have won the championship. right And actually, if you put form aside...
Speaker: and you the form of the latter parts of last season or but or during the good run last season. Actually, if you're really honest with yourself, there aren't that many in our team.
Speaker: There are players who are capable of being one of the best in their position in the league, but there aren't that many that the the other teams would say, I'll immediately supplant that. Now, Brooks is an example of one who probably would get into a lot of championship first 11s.
Speaker: Maxson, on his day, definitely is. Rory is trending that way, but he's still a kid and he is still good for for a rick every now and again. and And I think the the list starts to run out because McCammer's got promise. Toure's got promise when he's fit. um That's not a championship-winning, promotion-winning squad. And they played like it.
Speaker: And I think Clement... has now, like i say, been his own worst enemy because we're now holding him against that. And the reason I think of all the options, the Napa, if we can't turn things around in the next, particularly four games, I think are very winnable.
Speaker: If we can't get, and it's going have to be two wins and two draws or three wins minimum, I think, for us to feel like we've generally turned a corner. ah We can't go win, lose, win, lose. That doesn't help anyone really.
Speaker: If we genuinely are still in that position night and we've only got a win or a win and draw of the next four, something's going to have to change to buy Phil more time. to keep the fans on side because we know how badly these players, the ones that we currently have, because we saw nearly all of them last year, we know how badly their heads go down when there's boos. We know how they do not have the character to play in in toxic scenarios. Not many players do, but you know we we saw it was like when we started booing this lot last year, when we started giving them grief before halftime and ironically cheering at them, they they went under, which lots of players would do.
Speaker: and So in order to buy Phil more time, if it doesn't go well in the next three or four weeks, we need to get rid of Napa so that there can be lots of positivity around the new appointment and going into what clearly is going to be an essential January transfer window to give us some hope of finishing a mid-table this season. Because if we're we're we're already three points three games away from the playoffs.
Speaker: if if if this run doesn't turn around, because we've already lost four in a bounce, five in all competitions, if if that sub if that becomes losing, if we lose 10 of the first 13, that is a relegation battle. And therefore January window is about saving us and making sure that we are a championship club next year. that's going to be really uncomfortable for Philippe Clement. And how we can buy him some time is if we change the sporting director and and whoever that new person is starts talking about what we're going to do in January to turn this squad around. And we can then feel like maybe we're going to change Because think the biggest issue here is we, as a transfer strategy, we banked on
Speaker: um a couple of additions and that all of the players who were playing at 10 out of 10 of their abilities and playing right at their ceilings under Clermont would continue to do so. And it was probably stupid of us all, including the club, primarily the club, they see him all the time, to think that he is going to continue to get blood out of stone like that.
Speaker: What say you, Claire?
Speaker: um I don't think Ben Napa is going to go at the moment. So I'm not even going to really entertain that as a discussion because I just can't see that happening.
Speaker: I'm also starting to really think that losing Ali Ahmed was a lot bigger than maybe we thought it was. but mete I feel like he was some the player that just brought everything together for us when he came in in January and that we really, really miss his directness and his pace and his defensive capabilities as well because he was really, really good at that.
Speaker: And then... his character as well. I think he was so well liked in the dressing room. So they're missed. And then, then Mo's now missing from the training pitch as well. So we've lost some big characters from the training pitch.
Speaker: And obviously Kenny's now not there, although, you know, we weren't winning when he was playing. I just, I, I just don't think things are, Maybe I'm too optimistic. I am overly optimistic, but I just don't think things are that far away from us getting a win and just turning things around. And I mentioned this last time, but we also need to remember how to draw games because like you just said,
Speaker: We're win-lose, lose-lose-lose, win-win-lose-lose. We need to draw games. At least a few of those we could have drawn. And then the situation would look a lot more rosy, even if we'd drawn three of the ones we've lost, which we could easily have done.
Speaker: Things wouldn't look anywhere near as bad as they do. So we just need we just need to learn how to draw. the squad depth, pump do you think... there is an element of taking Magoma off the field is sending a message to the fans that my squad's shit here.
Speaker: Like, do you think that there isn't like banging on about how young the squad is, Do you think that that is him sending a message that actually I'm not happy with the tools at my disposal because I've got too many young lads and I didn't get the leaders I needed?
Speaker: And um actually, i've got so because of injuries, um we yeah because of our lack of depth in genuine attacking capabilities, when I'm chasing a game and really need something, I've got to concoct some bullshit about Sam Field being able to run a lot as the reason I'm bringing him on from a GOMA.
Speaker: Because he's obviously he's made that substitution twice in in scenarios where we need to win. Mago like he came on for a Field came on for right, didn't he? by i just the point make The point is, is he absolutely right? Mago was the first one and then he was then and he came on for right yesterday. The point is, he takes off a ball playing, you know attacking someone who can score goals for so for a for a CDM.
Speaker: I wonder if that's that's a message that I haven't got another 10 or I haven't got another attacking option, I've run out. And to to me, that that might be him sending a message because he's too professional to air his dirty laundry in public that he wants to get rid Napa.
Speaker: ah don i i I think, I mean, you know, for the reasons i I mentioned earlier, I think him talking about squad age, I think him talking about the fact that they didn't get the experience in that perhaps they desired was him, you know, kind of being quite,
Speaker: on the you know kind of on the nail about, yeah, actually, maybe we didn't get exactly what we wanted in the window, but but actually, it's not a perfect world and you know you're never going to sign all of the players that you want. So, you know we're going to have to make make do and mend.
Speaker: um I don't know what that field substitution was about. And and i I felt quite comfortable, actually. with and i After last season, it was almost like Kenny and Mattson were indestructible and they could just play together forever and ever and everything would be fine.
Speaker: And then clearly, you know, that that's just me as ah as a hopelessly optimistic fan. But... that was never going to be feasible, especially with Kenny's age in legs and and the fact that this squad, the demands placed on the squad, I think, from Clement are quite high.
Speaker: um So field and right probably never felt like it was going to be sufficient cover to me. And now, you know, look you've got you've got your main leader in the squad that's gone down.
Speaker: And if you've only got Wright and Field to replace them and then actually Wright isn't able to do 90 minutes, because that's the way I perceived it. It was like Wright has worked very, very hard. um you know He hasn't started many games this season and maybe we need to save him for Saturday. So let's stick Field on. I thought he was excellent in spaces.
Speaker: Yeah, it it's that's not that's not great. And look, Topic will be back before we know it, but... it You can say that, but actually Antti Cernac is nowhere near up to speed. Well, no, and he commented on that, didn't he? I think he was talking about Jovan and Cernac. I thought he was talking about Macarver and Cernac and possibly Magoma. And they so poor.
Speaker: No, i i think I think Paris did pretty well when he came on. He he did a couple of resurging runs. Yeah, he carried the ball few times. Yeah, he brought the ball forward. He could have done better with it, but he was trying. Whereas jovan It's just so lacklustre. Like you expect him to come on and cause havoc and he just didn't. And he didn't in the Bolton game either. I don't know. he he bolt Bolton game, he was he he really didn't make an impact. But I i don't agree on the on the side of... I do think he made an impact because I do think he gave us a bit of... for For a start, he hustled his man and got a shot off a couple of times. They weren't good shots. Yeah.
Speaker: But like he, he, they wo he, shocked no, but he, but Chris Corrin did fuck all. Like he missed a really easy, hit well, I mean, I'd fucking run about. and He missed a really easy header. He like, that is a, that is a dog shit attempt to header ball. Yeah, that was a poor header. Yeah. I know he's not, I know he's not Ewan Roberts. I know he's not Peter Crouch. I know he's not, we didn't buy him for his aerial capability. He's good in the air though.
Speaker: Not at not at heading at goal with no basically unmarked. It was a lovely ball into him. um If the keeper pulls off a worldie, fine. But if the keeper basically hardly has to move to pluck that out of the air, it's not good enough. And Wright, as much as I thought, he had a very, very good first half.
Speaker: um he has to do better. The goal he scored at the weekend was harder than the one, that the opportunity that he missed. Once he's taken our first touch and got himself in that position, you're like, you just hit the foreman. And Oscars. yeah And Oscars. That's what i mean, though. It's fine margins. We had three really good scoring opportunities. And I don't,
Speaker: And and i obviously i know I know you two are going to be couple half four because you are youre much more balanced individuals than me with with happier lives. But the challenge is and the challenge the the the challenge is I do feel like I have to kind of try and channel a lot of the frustration. So I i listened to the radio last night on the way home and heard...
Speaker: you know Someone making the point about Vakama that he's got to start on Saturday because he offers he offers so much more than than what Chris Curran does. i I really like Scrappy Doo as a footballer and I've really been rooting for him in the same way as I've been rooting for Cernat. But you look at the amount of money that we spent on those two.
Speaker: I mean, it's just that it points to Napa, I'm afraid. If you can spend that much money on those two players on what's his face that we went to put out on loan. and You're a sec.
Speaker: Yeah. Like the, and But yeah, Forstin obviously it wasn't quite as much as then, but it was still few million. still about four mil, yeah. It's a few million. And you think of the the possibilities of the players that we could have had for that cash. And you've also got... Matthias has scored quite a lot of goals though. I mean...
Speaker: It doesn't sound like he has, but he has. How many has he got? Because that was his 50th appearance, wasn't it? 50 appearances. Really? Wow. It's not like he's not had an opportunity. Only 15 of them have started. 11 or 12 goals. Maybe not even Maybe like 10 goals.
Speaker: ah maybe maybe not your maybe like ten goals But the the thing is, they're so few and far between. And he like I don't think he looks like he's going to score. And I also think a lot of his goals, he's had eight goals.
Speaker: And I think a lot of them... is that all? Yeah. well And I think a lot of them... Yeah. I think a lot of them come from... i mean according Well, that's according to Wikipedia that also says he's only got 41 games. So let's round it up to 10 if it's 50, if Wikipedia is a few weeks behind or whatever. Yeah. But the point is his goals are so few and far between.
Speaker: and I also think that he's almost seems to have a, a speciality of scoring goals. It don't matter, but he scores, he scores goals in which we, in games where we lose three, one, he scores, he scores the second or third goal in a game we win two or three nil.
Speaker: And I, I, he's, and that is what, what I thought Jove did give us when he came on was a different proposition and a handful. Now, Another point that Ewan made last night on the radio, I thought Ewan's punditry was excellent on the 10-15 minutes I heard on the way and he He said that that Phil Clement to him strikes him as an exceptionally stubborn manager.
Speaker: and And the personnel we've... And and i I did make this point last year under Manning and then under Clement and then obviously stopped making it because what he was sticking with was working.
Speaker: Our squad does not suit the formation that he is persevering with at the moment. you know We do not have the out-and-out wingers fit at the same time to rely on those wingers being able to then come back and cover Stacey going off on gallivanting runs. right we We have got a big man, small man, play 4-4-2 or play a diamond in which a big man, small man can work together.
Speaker: i i You cannot say it doesn't work because he has not tried it. And my concern is, I'm right, I'm right, I'm right, I know the best, I'm amazing, I'm i'm fantastic, I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker: If that's the kind of manager Clement is, and Ewan was kind of ah making the point that he doesn't think that he's got any tactical flexibility to go away from the system that he wants to play as a first choice...
Speaker: if the If the players are not responding to that, and we're now into a long run of them not getting results from irrelevant of whether it's fine margins, it does not matter. There is no margin column in the table, as much as I totally respect that point of view. And it is is relevant. The point is, and that's why I think these next four games are huge, because we could have an unlucky sending off, an unlucky penalty, an offside goal, and that someone else can punch one in that doesn't count. And we could lose another four games.
Speaker: he's got He has to show that he's got a way of pulling a rabbit out of a hat. And I don't think he's necessarily got the squad to do that. And that's why my ire is for Napa, because for every decent signing, there are seven that are bad under him. And I think the goalkeeping department in particular, and i know we're not completely aligned on this with Grimmie,
Speaker: I think the goalkeeping department is a disgrace. If you look at the goalkeepers that Naba has signed, what say you, Punt? um I mean, look, Napa is the man who gave George Long a three-year contract. So, was yeah. um I don't think it's as bad as you've just just made it out. I think, you know, kind of that was maybe hyperbole that it's, you know, for every one side in there, seven bad.
Speaker: i Claire was at pains to make the point last season that Ben Napa has... and the club have signed, they haven't signed bad players, right? And I think actually there's there's a world in which that that's true, and I think there's ah there's a world last season where a lot of the players were on form, that they were exceptionally well coached, that they were motivated, and it all came together and it clicked.
Speaker: He has signed some stinkers. There's no there's no getting around that. um But... For me, it's it is about the blend. And I'm not... What what I think Napa has been exceptionally good at is extracting value for selling players. And I almost wonder whether Napa's... Well, I think he's been fairly fairly overt about it. Napa's strategy seems to be just sign them at really good value and then flip them at the maximum value that we can sell them. And and as a result...
Speaker: And he's so wedded to that strategy that I think, one, i don't I'm not sure that we sign players that are going to fit the team. We sign players that actually we know that maybe down the line will improve and then we'll be to sell them for 25, 30 million, which now seems fanciful.
Speaker: But the second strand to that is we've basically ditched the academy. and And that really, really makes me sad as a Norwich fan because we've not always, but for a very long time been known for our youth development and, you know, bringing players through um throughout the ages. You know, whenever there's been successful Norwich sides, it it feels like we've had one or two or four or five of our own in them.
Speaker: He's ripped that up. but Who's coming through from the academy, really? And that there seems to be no... Mundell Smith. Well, and I you know look ah quite like him and I think he'll probably go on and have a good career in League One or something and maybe he'll do a full circle and and come on like Corey Smith and end up in the Championship or whatever. But but actually, there isn't really anyone coming through. And the ones the youngsters that are coming through are ones that we've signed who are 17, 18 already. you know We're not growing our own.
Speaker: and but We've done that for a while because we but did that with with ah James Madison. We did that with Ben Godfrey. They came fairly late age. ah And also, we we're not bringing it it is sad we're not bringing sort of local people through in the academy. But the flip side of that, I keep saying flip side, is that We are playing really young players in our first team, giving them a really good chance. Like, Oscar's 20 and played how many games? Yeah. you know he's up and he's ridiculous. Yeah. ridiculous. Yeah, and so many of those players ah have had a really good run of games at such a young age that other clubs wouldn't give you that opportunity.
Speaker: but He paid yesterday. I thought he played all right last night. But then we'll sell them for more money than we bought them. So, you know, well it's a business as well, isn't it? But if you went through, right, sure if I just started reading out, because I did note them just in case this conversation came up, 25 of Ben Knapper's signings, right?
Speaker: You just tell me if you think they're worth more now than where they were when we signed them. Ante Cernach. Less. Definitely less. Matej Urasek, definitely less. West Fawson, definitely less. Jose Cordoba, jury's out. but you know no Three and a half million. oh no No, he's what eight nine five more no worth more.
Speaker: um Rory McConville, probably worth more. Oscar Schwartow, more. He's still quite expensive. He's worth more.
Speaker: Ben Krasene? More. Less. I'd say a little bit more. It was only three quarters million. I'd say he's a little bit more. um Anis Ben Slamani? More, probably. Less. No.
Speaker: Mateusz Kvyskoren? Less. No, less. Yeah. yeah ah Papa Amadou Diallo? Less. Who? Mikko Topic? Less.
Speaker: Mattson, you'd hope more. Mattson more, yeah. Motore McCarmon more, Jacob Wright more. So that's a good little run. Okay, just, yeah, just hold you hard, as they say in Norfolk.
Speaker: I know what it means. Vladan Kovacevic. I'll pay you that much for him never to play for us again. Medich. Medich.
Speaker: ah No. Is he we he technically still ours? Is he on loan? i don't i don't know. He might have gone permanently. How much did we sign him for? him for?
Speaker: two months Harry Darling was a three, so that's kind of a pass. ah Sam Field?
Speaker: ah Probably the same. Probably the same. He costs a million quid for someone who can do the last 15 minutes and get booked within 10 seconds. You get my point. There's only a very, very small handful of players. you could say that in every team, I think. I don't think you could say that. think that hit rate is a lot lower than, say, a Stuart Webber.
Speaker: I think he signed more than Webber. he's That's an understatement. He signed more than Webber. We won two leagues under Stuart Webber. Yeah, that's the point. Slightly different situation. And he and he had less money.
Speaker: So he had less money and bought fewer players and managed to pick better players quicker and had less data than the And I'm not advocating for the return of Stuart Webber. Let's just make that very, very clear. did think that yesterday. And Webber has fewer contacts in the game. Webber's supposed to have fewer contacts in the game.
Speaker: So I do not think we've had the bounce of of all of the promise that we were supposed to have with with him. it took To me, now, the and I'm not one for...
Speaker: um being angry at our American overlords because they are focused on their other team, currently you know one win away from the World Series for the first time in 40 odd years.
Speaker: I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if Norwich were in the well Champions League semi-final, which is the equivalent in our sport to what they're currently going through. um And they were in Milwaukee watching a the the third month of the season game rather than like solely focused on getting us over the line in the Champions League. So I sort of do give them a pass. it is still early enough in the season for them that actually it it makes sense if they're not going to show up for for a few weeks.
Speaker: But i I do think ahead of the January transfer window, to me, it feels like a massive PR win. You mentioned the the W word there. let's Let's flip it to the other W. and What do we think around kind of the board and the exec team at the club? So outside, what what about Zoe? What about, do do we feel that's, because a lot of people are calling for people. People are either saying, like you two, we're only, we're you know, we're not too far away. Like, the you know, the pick the people who, for whom the the cup is overfloweth with with joy.
Speaker: The majority of people want something to change. And I get your point, Claire, that the the yeah so silly little boys get really, really cross when their football team doesn't win and they immediately want something to change and everything has to be someone's fault. And yes, that is a toxic trait of the modern football fan.
Speaker: But there is a huge majority of people who need something to change to be able to go and kind of go again and back the boys and say so and turn the page. There's a lot of people saying on social media, how can you possibly criticise Clement when he's been given so little? We keep changing managers. There there are things above him that don't change or them, the the managers that don't change.
Speaker: Claire, do you think it's time to, you know once they've won the World Series or whatever, do you think it's time the Atanasio to come over and say, right, new CEO, new and commercial lead, new setup, new structure um to take us in a new direction?
Speaker: Because... It's now six years of mediocrity that they've overseen. Yeah. It's long enough sample size, right? They should have got the hang of the championship by now.
Speaker: Yeah. Is it right we don't actually have a CEO? Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of shared directorship. i don't think yeah I don't think we've had it since Ken's gone. yeah and And he wasn't really a CEO he anyway, was he? He was he was more you know kind of still commercial officer. he was But he was so hands on. And and we you know we we were closer to the club at that time and as a podcast.
Speaker: He was involved in so many things and he was behind so much positivity and so much progression. He was so entrepreneurial. There was such an opportunity to innovate within the club. And as as I've said, you know, till I'm blue in the face, we I still think as a club, we I think he was very good.
Speaker: i think he was more humble than he could have been for how much credit he took for the for the success that happened under him and immediately after him for what he set up at the club and and and the path that he set us on for a lot of positive commercial ah commerciality.
Speaker: um but i i I honestly think that we've been on a downward trajectory since he left. I don't do not think that replacing from within like we did was the right move. And I still think we are missing a proper talismanic leader on the business side of the club to come in and genuinely kick us on. yeah doesn't mean it And it doesn't even mean...
Speaker: you know, Zoe apparently is is terrific in in player deals. And yeah we have had some great selling on fees and other things and negotiating. You know, we we know people at the club who we trust who think she's phenomenal at that particular part of of the business, of the football business world. it doesn't mean that people necessarily have to go, although I would get rid of Napa. It doesn't mean they necessarily to go but bring in that new leader who is the CEO of the football side of the business to give us that freight. And that'll that'll buy Philip quite time because then the Pinkham boys can go and talk to him and we can all be yeah distracted with that for a few weeks.
Speaker: They feel very far removed from us um and not particularly likable as a group of people. um I think there is definitely a window where we should have that CEO back and maybe that's what was missing. And as I mentioned the other day,
Speaker: perhaps this downturn in our form is due to Neil Adams going because from what I've heard from people that were on the inside of the club, he was the glue that held everything together. Massive coach guy, yeah. He was the nicest person there that, you know, of, he literally stuck all the different departments together and was approachable and friendly and kind and I'm not getting that vibe from many of the other people in charge that they are but well, dislikable, in fact.
Speaker: um I'm separating it from what's going on on the pitch. I think it's a separate issue to some extent. um And at the moment, it all feels quite negative and toxic because the results aren't there. Because what's going on behind the scenes was going on behind the scenes from January to May last season.
Speaker: as much as it is this but neil adams was there then so you know maybe maybe some of this is you know his personality missing maybe we do need somebody who is a really nice person to come in and be the ceo and stick everyone back together again oh i think mcnally's available let's just get it back like now i I think we need some we need we need someone who is very good at making the fans think that he'd be great to go and have a pint with but actually is ruthless bastard yeah and horrendous David McNally basically and that's what think he lives near me I've seen him in Wimbledon Village before yeah go knock on a door
Speaker: and So we before we get to our guarantees ah for Saturday, one guarantee will be not a dry eye in the house as we commemorate Michael. So a it's important that we set aside a bit of time because a lot of the wonderful things that we have crowed about and a lot of the the positivity that we're harking back to and saying, oh, I wish it was like this, I wish it was like that.
Speaker: He had a huge amount to to to do with getting us to that point and effectively saving the club. and and yeah ah It's interesting how, and it's positive, how little flack went his way. and I'm really glad that he did have a long enough period of going to the games for you know a couple of years or maybe three or four years when they took so much of a step aside from making it so clear that they are not involved in the the football side of the business. to actually enjoy it as a fan.
Speaker: and But you know we've we've we've had the the very, very good fortune of of and making his acquaintance and and getting to know him as a fan. And I think and the one thing I'd say, Punt, about about Michael was anyone who spent time with him in and around the club you know You talk about people like McNally or or Ben or people who might be a CEO that um is you know nice in one way and then a bastard behind the scenes.
Speaker: Michael Wynne-Jones was just a football fan. i mean he you couldn't You couldn't have an interaction with him and think, oh, was he is this is this the line he's been given? Or is is this being spun? or He was just a bloke who loved Norwich City Football Club.
Speaker: Yeah. And I mean, like one of the most, like people say to me, look I don't know many people that that love Norwich City Football Club more than you and is you know as obsessed with it as as me.
Speaker: And I think i I'd count you two among, you know, kind of you being equally as obsessed with Norwich because why would we spend a lot of our Sundays and Mondays doing a podcast, right? But... i Michael loved the football club way more than I did. And he was a genuinely caring guy who if you speak to any of the staff there, you know all of them had brilliant words to say about him. it was really easy to talk to.
Speaker: um you know look the the amount of times that you'd just be popping by and he'd be having his ciggy outside the director's entrance and you'd just just say hello. And he would always have the time to chat But he would all... I don't know. he was just Good times and bad as well.
Speaker: An owner of a bygone era. He was someone who wanted the football club to be managed in the right way, for it to be self-sufficient, for us to you know kind of to just to just go about things in in the way that football clubs should be run. And he was an incredibly astute businessman in his own right, but he didn't call any of the attention.
Speaker: he He just went about his business. He was really happy, just diligently looking after this football club. And or letting the people that he trusted look after this football club.
Speaker: And I think. For me, the the biggest tribute that. I think the club can give him is to, is to recognise what, what him and Delia have presided over.
Speaker: But I think if I can just share something, which I think has, has been shared a little bit wider um since it's happened, but the Lion and Castle, like that was the brainchild of Delia and Michael, but absolutely. They wanted to improve supporter facilities all around Carrow Road, but you know, the Barkley, they, they absolutely saw that that was, that was somewhere where it wasn't perfect.
Speaker: And there was ideas that were floated with the club and with the executive of the football club and some of the executives thought that we've just talked about um earlier. And they didn't buy it.
Speaker: They absolutely didn't buy into it and did not want to fund it. And Delia and Michael, and and I think Michael pushed through quite a bit around this, you know went on to to fund it themselves because they saw the absolute value the that being a legacy for supporters to to enjoy. And it is packed after most games and it is packed before loads of other games. And that mural that you see, which, you know, was ah wonderful illustrations that that, you know, our good friend Ben had put together.
Speaker: yeah magic. that I don't think the club were going to fund that either. And Michael funded that out of his own pocket from what from what I've been told. So, He was a wonderful gentleman who loved this football club as much as any of us. And I just really, really hope that the club give him the send-off that he deserves on Saturday. I trust that they will.
Speaker: And I really, really hope, talking about the fact that our owners haven't been seen much, I really hope that they are there to mark the occasion as well, because I don't care that about the World Series. I think someone from Norfolk Holdings should be there to mark that as well. i think that's really important.
Speaker: Well, they'll get ever so much stick if they're not, um but it would be nice to believe that they will be there. Claire, what what memories have you got of Michael shaking his yellow scarf, which was never quite never quite the right colour yellow, but never mind. yeah I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I did see him very often standing outside the entrance having a puff on his cigarette and it would be very odd to think that I will never see him doing that again and even just sitting i would always put a glance over towards him and Delia at every game and it's just going to be so like I could see the scarf on his seat yeah um on on Wednesday last was last night it feels like a million miles away now it was yesterday um it's just going to be so strange not to see them sitting there it's like they sort of
Speaker: were invincible and they would just both go on forever and ever and ever. And it just, it feels very strange that he's not going to be there. You feel kind of like there's a steady ship in charge of us at all times when they were there. Yeah. And obviously Delia's still, thankfully, with us, but things will be very different, I think.
Speaker: Yes, God bless him. So do you think... I mean, it'd be interesting to see what their plans are, whether there's going to be a Michael Wynne Jones stand or you know whether they're going to name it name one of the trophies after them or or what have you. um you know' It'd be interesting, obviously, see we've got the Roy Waller commentary box that was then retired because obviously the commentary moved over to the gantry. but It does feel to me like he he is he has just been such a colossus in the history of Norwich City and so much positive.
Speaker: It's not just because of longevity. I mean he actually was really good at it. like He was really good at being an owner. He saved us. Well, but he's gone from saving us to giving us titles and and trophies and and and promotions and success. Some amazing football.
Speaker: um And then he's he's overseen the club being handed over to someone who can take it forward and who has even more money. know They will have yeah they felt very, very comfortably off. Thank you very much. But not in the same league as the billionaires of the of hedge fund world. um but then he's chris But he's presided over it and he's made sure that he's presided it over it and said, and you're not changing the name of Carrow Road.
Speaker: You know, there's just several things that they would immediately do to make a few extra quid that they won't do. Because that is, that's effectively and no-go areas that um that that that they made Norfolk Holdings in.
Speaker: agree to. i mean, it'd be really interesting punt if I cannot believe there'll be no one there. No, I think there will. I just wanted to make that point that I i don't think they're absentee owners and I think they will make sure that they're there. But they get with look but i would be disappointed if if they weren't.
Speaker: They're getting a lot of grief for being absentee owners at the moment, aren't they? Then again, that's just people directing their anger at someone, isn't it? Yeah, agree with that. Direct at the players. Yeah. Well, yeah, but then but then last night on um on the phone in people saying, you know, if you're going to boo, you have to boo at half time and full time. Do not boo before the end of like when when the, you know, don't boo in the middle of the game. Don't give players grief during the game because yeah obviously they're going to able to cope with it. I thought the fans were poor yesterday. I was surprised Philippe was saying that they were really good. And I heard lots of people saying the fans were with us the whole game. I don't think we we were good at all. i think we got very negative in a second half. Yeah, but then second half, we were but appalling. We were so
Speaker: But we're not helping them. get edgy. They get edgier. But this is a time on thing. but we we but this is ah this is this is a time on thing you When you are on a good run and you will have a bad performance, the fans will dig you out.
Speaker: Two, sometimes three games. Once you get to this many games in a row where the out where we haven't seen the goods, the that the fans will just go, singing for a team that's probably not going to turn this round. I don't think you can do it.
Speaker: That's the problem. We've lost so much faith that we think, you know, why are we going to sing and why are we going to generate atmosphere when we do not think they're going they've got a chance get of coming back into the game. When there was a couple of moments when we did sing and we did get going a little bit when Joe's like battering around himself through and we got call and what have you. But,
Speaker: Now, for me, for me that I don't think it's as... Statistically, they have been fine margins. I do not think Saints had to get out of second gear after they scored last night. And that is unforgivable at home.
Speaker: Their manager said they had to dig very deep. Good for him. and He's sending a message to the players that he brought in that he because they rotated. And it's very, very easy to pat people on the head just after you've beaten them. and we get you know I don't want compliments when we've lost.
Speaker: I want compliments when we've won. you know I want people, i want like Chris Wilder, saying they're actually bloody good, actually, when we beat him away. you know i want that that that They're the compliments that really mean something. Yeah.
Speaker: you know I also love it when so when you beat someone three and you and they go, oh, well, they were lucky. That's just as delicious to me. But um yeah, I think it's very easy to say, oh, they're one of the better teams. They'll be up there at the end of the season when you've just won 1-0 and not had to get out a second gear in the second half. OK, the centre-backs had to deal with Jovan a bit.
Speaker: But no, that's cyclical. It's going to be a huge occasion yeah marking Michael's passing at the start of the game. The you know the emotion will be high.
Speaker: Early goal, follow it up with the second, keep the tempo up, and it could be a rip-roaring atmosphere, and then we can ride off that into these games. So let's have a guarantee on Saturday, please, Claire, for the visit of Portsmouth.
Speaker: I want a goal mo scorer and a score line against the mouth of Portsmouth.
Speaker: We are going to win three one The smiles will be back on our faces. Everyone will breathe again.
Speaker: i bet I'll be cross about the goal. You will be cross about the goal. It won't be Grimmy's fault. um who I thought was very good yesterday. just put that in there. um Yeah, I know what you think. We know what you think. He was fine.
Speaker: um The goal scorer is going to be Jacob, I think. Oh, yeah, okay. yeah he Yeah, he should have scored yesterday. He did score the game before. He's on a little bit of roll.
Speaker: Okay. Puntalicious. ah We are going to win three goals to nil. and We are going to get... Oh, clean sheet. Go Grimmy. Yeah, we're going to get an early goal.
Speaker: We're going to get an early goal. um The footballing gods will be ah looking down on us and it will be courtesy of a fortuitous own goal. And it will just settle the nerves and then a lovely 3-0 routine victory.
Speaker: And it's a long way back to Portsmouth when you're shit. Because it really is. and Yeah, okay. I think we're going to win 4-0. And yeah I think that we are going to see a Jovan hat-trick.
Speaker: Because he is not happy that Torre's got a bit of a march on him. He's got some copy but he's got some catching up to do. He's got plenty of time to catch up, hasn't he? So I think it's going to be i think he's going to be a first-half hat-trick for Jovan. And we're going to go in at 3-0 and it's going to be stand innovation all round. Yeah, loads, yeah, loads. One of those really celebratory ones when they walk back to the tunnel. We've had it we've had it a couple of times and this calendar year, you know, when we've absolutely bossed the first half and we're a couple of goals up. We've had it a couple of times where it's been jubilant and it's just going to be a great...
Speaker: 45 minutes of of celebrating them with Michael and then it'll be a really boring second half where we pass it around a bit and then just win the second half 1-0. But I'll take that and yeah, I'm going to enjoy the Jovan hat trick. yeah, and looking ahead, it's really important that we've got Portsmouth, we've got Charlton, we've got Watford, we've got Derby. yeah They are winnable games.
Speaker: um And it doesn't actually look that bad in the few before that. and like It gets a bit stickier when we get to Christmas with Wolves and West Ham back to back. but But between now and then, both on paper before the season and as the table has turned out,
Speaker: This is this is a almost two month period now where we have mostly winnable games that if we can you know maintain this the sort of fitness we have, i.e., you know, we still got some players we can put out, um then we should be able to put together a run. So I am going to come out of today very, very positive. I'm going to take some of your optimism. Yay! And...
Speaker: and Maybe those fine margins will be sorted and we'll go into a a kind of 17th of October win, 24th of October win against Charlton. We smash Watford 5-0 on the 31st of October and then basically travel to Derby knowing that we're we're going for our fourth win on the bounce and we're top half then.
Speaker: It's all going to be fine, everyone. It's going to be fine. don't know what anyone is worried about. Good Lord. Well, there you go.
