Transcript
Speaker: Previously on the Along Come Norwich podcast. but We are going to win three goals to nil and we are going to get... Ooh, clean sheet. We're going get an early goal. The footballing gods will be looking down on us and it will be courtesy of a fortuitous own goal. We are going to win 3-1. The smiles will be back on our faces. Everyone will breathe again.
Speaker: I think we're going to win four now and yeah I think that we are going to see Jovan hat trick.
Speaker: But that didn't happen, did it, Claire? No. Oh, I'm just, um'm I'm lost for words now, to be honest. I try to be positive.
Speaker: I'm a glass half full girl, try and see joy in the small things. But my God, are they making it hard. That first half was so abject.
Speaker: Given the lovely send-off and and thank you we'd just given Michael, ah just it was just so poor. So, so poor. The second half was more positive and I have taken some positives from that.
Speaker: But I'm beginning to think what John said about just lack of leadership on the pitch is is actually true because i looked around that first half and there was just nobody kind of urging them on or...
Speaker: I think there are leaders, but they're very young and very inexperienced. And in a couple of years' time, they will be fabulous, but they've just not had the experience to get through this and deal with this and make a change on the pitch in that moment.
Speaker: and Yeah, I just, I don't, I can't believe we're exactly the same point as we were 12 months ago. it it i vary from sadness to anger to just pure disbelief, and I'm kind of going in a triangle between those three currently.
Speaker: as is everyone, I'm sure. I thought that ah Connor's description of fatigue was spot on um because I think I am fatigued by having to process the same feelings and emotions around this football club that I did last year. And and i just and you just sort of think, oh what how are we back here again?
Speaker: You almost think um we mid-table mediocrity would be one thing but or doing really well, but... the the idea of having a reasonable start which then very quickly falls away um obviously last time we won we won some points on the road didn't we under manning and but couldn't get anything going at home and then everything fell apart um and similarly we we you know i called out early doors you know we're winning some we're losing some i wasn't convinced that that everything was right punt Claire just picked up on the second half being more encouraging.
Speaker: I actually do think the second half, as rubbish as we were first half, I do think the second half was fine margins. you know that Pella's shot off the post, there is enough time left in the game.
Speaker: And we were after their goal, we were the better team, not by much. It wasn't a great game of football. But we were the better team after that, after after they we conceded. And we did create opportunities and we did come close, of which that Pella chance, if it goes in, i sort of do feel that a car road is then up and we are then pushing for the winner. Oof.
Speaker: um There's a lot of straw grasp in there, I think, if I'm really honest. we would Look, we were better. um We made some changes that were eyebrow-raising, but actually...
Speaker: Clement did improve the team as a result of that. um But as I say, I think it is we're absolutely grasping at straws because we threatened to very little against a Pompey side who, as far as I'm aware, were were pretty threadbare in terms of their defensive line. I mean, they were ironically chanting for that centre-back, you know, like all game. So he must be dreadful, like, you know, or ah he must be some kind of cult hero. But to me, the chances that we created were...
Speaker: low margin, like, you know, Pella's shot is wonderful. um On another day, maybe, you know, it catches it it goes like a, you know, another millimetre to the right and and actually it it flies in.
Speaker: And then actually, I think Norwich probably go on and win the game. But to be reliant on, you know, a 25-yard Perla going in, that to me strikes, you know, it straight it strikes me as if Norwich weren't at the levels. And and I think, know,
Speaker: and I've seen this point made plenty, we were second best across the 90 minutes. but For me, there's this you know and and Portsmouth aren't a great team. No, they're rubbish. i live i I'm not sure we've played anyone good yet.
Speaker: It's the level of... yeah but It's the championship, isn't it? like that they're ah They're all kind of of a level. But i the bit that i worry about the most... is that actually Claire and I on the last pod were kind of suggesting that maybe we weren't too far away.
Speaker: We'd seriously regressed. We'd seriously regressed to Liam Manning levels of performance. And I did a mill wall aside, maybe Bolton.
Speaker: I didn't think we'd been that bad. First half, we stank it out. We absolutely stank it out. And for... all the reasons that that have been talked about on loads of Norwich podcasts, that should just not have been the case. You know, we should have been full of fire, full of grit, full of desire to get a result.
Speaker: And we froze, we completely froze. And I don't, I don't know whether we're now in a bit of a death loop and actually, something has to change.
Speaker: um ah I have no idea what that is, right, by the way. and I'm not suggesting, you know, ditch Clement immediately. But something has to change and something fairly fundamental has to change for us to to arrest the slide. And I can't see it at the moment.
Speaker: you know And Charlton should be an absolutely massive opportunity on Saturday. i mean, what, winless in eight? All right, you know, ACN and all that. But... It should be the kind of team that you want to play if you if you want to stop the rot.
Speaker: But they look so bereft of confidence and I can't believe that it has disappeared this quickly. um So yeah, I'm worried, really, really worried now. And i obviously we'll get into it and we've had some listener questions, I think, of of the same ilk. But you know you start your mind starts to race forward to, well, how many games can we leave it before...
Speaker: you know Napa goes or Clement goes or something else happens you know that took to change it. um And how bothered, we talk about a brilliant send-off, but how bothered are the ownership right now?
Speaker: And I'm sure they are bothered. It's just the levels that that I worry about because they've got something else going on. um They've got the World Series to worry about. There was no one there. Well, all right, Richard Ressler was there on Saturday, but there was no one there from the Atanasio family on Saturday.
Speaker: It's just a really bad look. And the Pinken um were using the words which I thought were quite emotive, you know, absentee landlords. But I can't disagree with it. you know it's And they've started blocking fans on X as well. Yeah, yeah. I saw Mike.
Speaker: No, it's not. It's not a brilliant look when he when he came in or when his dad took over, he was so willing to engage. And, you know, they were doing podcasts and all sorts to to try and win over the fans. Now it's just all b block them because they were a little bit annoyed with me. i mean, that that's that's not the way you win hearts and minds.
Speaker: And I think Norwich are they're in this place again. And I think fans are so quick to be apathetic now because the club hasn't done a brilliant job off the pitch in terms of the way in which they've communicated a vision, in terms of the way in which they've communicated expectations, in in the way in which they've communicated anything, really. Just on that point, on that point and I think yeah if just if you just go, we're only in mid-October, if you go back two months to the start of to middle of August, start of the season,
Speaker: yeah I haven't really realised until the last week or so that there was nothing. There was no Napa interview.
Speaker: There was no Napa and Clement sit down with Paddy and Connor. There was no, this is what our our philosophy is going into this season. This is how we're going to build on that. Other than Clement's press conferences of the routine of just before a press conference and just before the first game and and all rest of it,
Speaker: It's only just struck me that it's really odd to have no, especially when um support, this is where this football club is so badly run from a PR ah point of view and has been for years now consistently getting it wrong.
Speaker: What a layup, what a gimme that would have been for Napa when actually he's, the first Everything's positive, yeah. Yeah, for the first time, a few of his signings look all right and he actually hasn't got the heat on him. And it means that he has the opportunity to talk when every question is not going to be, are you considering your position? Like he's now left it two months or three months or whatever. And now the very first question, but if if he ever dares be in front of a microphone again, he's going to be asked, are you considering your position? Are you the man to take this club forward? What does it look like if you're the next person to sack someone?
Speaker: So, yeah, sorry to to jump in there, but that that the the lack of a vision and lack of a project or what have you is echoing so loudly because the World Series wasn't going on two months ago. That was only, you know, month seven of the interminable fucking baseball season.
Speaker: um You know, it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense to me that they that this club does not capitalise on when things are going well. They do tone deaf nonsense like the crap platinum shirt and then having a really good shirt this time and not doing enough of them. It's just if there is an opportunity to stand on a rake like a cartoon character and hit themselves in the face, they will do it. If there is a ladder to walk under, if there is a bar to fall through, you know, if there is a banana skin to slip on,
Speaker: This football club on the business side of it will do it. And now we you talked about something needs to change. And this was I was actually a bit frustrated.
Speaker: I often get on on a home game. I like to listen to Canary Calls. I want to hear which player is put up and I want to hear what the manager says. and And I was really disappointed. The first caller on Canary Call this week was making excellent points. Now, he was wobbly of voice and he was over. And I think they were maybe worried he was going to swear because he was really emotional and he was really wound up. He was spot on and Butler cut him off. And I would i would have liked to Butler to have given him the opportunity to just calm down a bit because he wanted to bring his his guest and on, former Norwich striker, I think was the guest of Norwich women's striker.
Speaker: and and i But his points were something's absolutely rotten at the football club at the very, very top and something is going to need to change because we can't keep being in this cycle where you know it's so mad that the meme of Manning saying, I don't think anything changes, becomes laughably funny after six months. And now six months on, it's painfully funny that actually, oh my God, was he right?
Speaker: Is he right that actually this squad stinks? laughing, but I'm crying at the same time. my So, Claire, look, we have to address it head Is there any way you can get rid of Clement and keep Napa?
Speaker: And by the same token, if you do get rid of Napa, how does that help us at Charlton? How does that help us, and you know, at the games coming up? Hang on. Did you mean it the other way around? You said get rid of Clement and keep Napa. Did you mean it the other way around? No, that's what I mean. No, I mean, if we get rid of Clermont, you have to get rid of Napa. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay, okay, okay. So by that token, if you're saying Napa's gone. I thought you meant before Napa. like i don't i don't I don't think there's a single supporter whose patience with Clermont has run out if and they think, oh, Napa's great. right All of Napa's credit's gone. and
Speaker: Some people, it's gone for Clermont as well. However, if for the if anyone thinks Clermont goes, they have to think Napa goes too, right? and On the flip side of that, if you go, no, no, no, let's get rid of Napa. Clermont's still got enough credit in the bank. Cool. What does getting rid of Napa change?
Speaker: Yeah, that that would be my worry is that, okay, he decides enough's enough or somebody forces him out. But is that actually going to have an impact on the pitch quick enough? Yeah.
Speaker: we It's really hard. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I've had ah like word of it's not happy camp you know behind the scenes, and he's he's not the greatest ah personality to have around. Napa?
Speaker: Napa, yes. not Not Philippe. I find it very hard still to criticise Philippe, although obviously accept that there are definitely flaws there now. Yeah. yeah i've always I've always sort of backed Napa in a way in that I've sort of suggested that for a long time, you know, not all his signings are terrible. I think a lot of them are decent and and every club signs duff players. You know, not every signing at every club is perfect. This isn't just a Norwich thing. um
Speaker: But he definitely has his failings. I think perhaps now it is time to bring someone else in at the top or an extra person in at the top to refresh things with a a different sort of view, different eyes, because something is not right. Who that person is, don't know.
Speaker: But I can't see Philippe going, i think we have to give him time to turn this around because if he isn't capable of turning it around, I can't see which managers are out there that would come in and be able to do it.
Speaker: I want him to do it. I'm so desperate for him to turn this around. Even he's like, I've never lost six games in a row in my career before. So if we take that to its logical conclusion and we keep Flemont and we sack Napa, what message does that send confidence-wise, John, to the um the players? Because ah is that not the football club going, God, this squad's shit, we better get rid of the person who bought them all?
Speaker: ah don't Ben Napa's job isn't as simple as just sign the players and then the head coach sorts it out, right? ah Ben Napa is, we've talked about it on this pod before, Ben Napa is responsible for culture. Oh God, I don't want to say behaviours, but he is responsible for cultures. And and you know kind of the the attitude of of people at Colney, at Carrot Road, he is totally responsible for the football side of things.
Speaker: And if, as Claire is alluding to, actually the vibes are a little bit sketchy with him, especially when the going gets tough, He's not the greatest orator. like there's There's no doubt about that. you know's've he's been put in front of what He's been wheeled out in front of in front of microphones plenty of times. And he's not someone, and I'm not saying your sporting director actually has to do this, right?
Speaker: But he's not someone who's going to inspire. He's not someone who's going to get up in a room full of 50 people and you know almost be tub thumping and... and get people on board really, really quickly. He seems to be way more considered than that. He seems to be way more measured than that.
Speaker: ah And there's a short term and there's a medium term, I think, to all of this. But the worry for me... is that Ben Knapp, we've completely bought into the club. And when I say we, I don't mean the fans. um I mean the football club as a whole. We've completely given Ben Knapp a license in terms of what he's done. He's, the way I see it, he's changed things, root and branch.
Speaker: And it's shite. It's utter shite. And look, football is fine margins. If we'd have signed a couple more leaders in the summer, maybe this could have looked very differently.
Speaker: But it is all... you know the foundations are built on sand because it is very short-termist. It's very extract the best fees. As I talked about the last pod, you know the academy forget it with the academy. I don't think that's ah you know that's a supply line anymore.
Speaker: Are we still a category A or category one or whatever? Yeah, we are still a cat one, but I wonder whether that we might dispense with that because it is expensive to maintain that. Is that just based on nice open the toilets and like, you know, underfloor heating, like rather than, do you have to actually prove a certain number of first team appearances or is it purely based on... It's a really good question, actually. I'm guessing it's facilities based because I think you're then a catchment area, like, you know, almost you have like a category one for like areas, but he's not, it's not good enough.
Speaker: And I think the question you're asking is, so what does it change? I just wonder whether it lifts a cloud you know and and that might be enough. yeah it's ah It might be a shock to the system.
Speaker: It might be. I don't think you need to light a fire under Philippe Clermont. I think he's embarrassed to be to be losing. He's getting chippier. i'm I'm really worried about him starting to call out.
Speaker: that we were closer to a victory than we were in a few things. We were awful first half. Second half, we did create enough opportunities to finish chances if we had in-confidence players. And McCormick missed chance, snatched said snatched that a chance that that was inside the box and he should be hitting the target there. We talked about Chris Garland's header, straight of the keeper, and Wright's really poor strike against Southampton. A couple of old opportunities in the first half there. i do I do think that fine margins in the championship, bad teams can beat good teams, bad teams can beat bad teams, good teams can beat good teams.
Speaker: i I do kind of think there is some credence to that because, there you know as again, as has been said on on in content over the last few days since the game on Saturday, we were recording this Tuesday, 20th of October.
Speaker: ah we are losing by the odd goal. you know we aren't you know We're not losing fours and fives. It isn't 70 minutes, the the ground emptying. right Because they the other two teams in the last two games have really not had that many shots either. I know, but but we we lost we lost quite heavily to some pretty ordinary teams. And the point is, it was more clearly over with Manning earlier in games than it is with Clon. And I think... ah i I don't think we have got to ah Manning's level of performance yet. Some of the first half, the bit where Pompey quite clearly, I think I messaged you guys this at half-time,
Speaker: Pompey didn't want the ball. They weren't expecting the ball. And we kept getting to a standstill in the first half where their centre-backs, who were not very good at playing the ball, were stood with their foot on the ball going, well, this isn't, what do I do now? so And likewise, we were playing like the away team.
Speaker: And I'd have heard it said, we would play it might have even been Butler who said this, we were playing like a League Two team away at the Etihad. effectively holding our positions, trying to make sure they don't play play through us. And then we just stood there and looked at each other.
Speaker: And on the day that we're commemorating Michael, who's overseen some driving football and some really exciting, passionate, you know heavy metal, rock and roll football, that was the manningiest it's been. But we we it was not We haven't got any... I think you have to remember how soul-crushingly bad it was under Manning. The results are as bad as Manning, like they are, right? And the the concern is ah ah is right up there as well. I am just as concerned that we might be watching a relegation canter, you know, a la Leicester,
Speaker: Because going to your question, Punt, on how long do we leave it until something seismic has to change? Claire, I wonder how late it was in the season that Leicester last season thought, we'll be all right though, right? Because we've got an yeah entirely Premier League squad. I wonder if it was Christmas when they went, we really haven't won many games, lads.
Speaker: do you know what i mean like i napa will be worried but he's marking his own homework to your point on maybe bringing in someone else and that person can't be under napa because it changes nothing if he brings in a a culture consultant or a he gets mckinsey into drawing you org structure for coney whatever if if he hires and fires at the moment we still have the atanasio absent landlords who basically um ringing up Ben every couple of days going, everything fine, you doing all you can. Oh, I'm doing everything I can. Root and branch, no stone left unturned. Crap, aren't they, not winning. and I'll tell them i'll tell him for you, Mark. See you later. Good luck. Go brewers. by there's that Unless you put something in between knapsack and Atanasio,
Speaker: hi then we're not going to, nothing changes. So maybe if you get rid of Knackers Yard and you go, right, you' you've been, you fucking Christmas elf, you've been fucking shit. on a rollmate yeah Get out of our fucking club.
Speaker: Right. You have stole, I won't look at the accounts. I i hey can't bear to think how much we've paid him. Right. to do basically play champ man badly. Like I feel that almost anyone could have done as good a job as he has, right?
Speaker: right if you If you make that seismic change, that does send a message to the squad. It does send a message to Clement that actually seven, eight, nine losses in a row is not going to be acceptable. And we're going to do something we can do immediately without disrupting the playing squad, which is you're going and we're going to get someone in who's got two months to watch the squad and then make decisions in January or support Philippe in making decisions in January.
Speaker: I think that has to happen. It won't happen until after the World Series. So we all have to have our fingers crossed that Brewers win in four or they lose in four so because then it can be over in like a week, right? so if if they if they if only take Because if it stretches out for seven games, this could be going on even longer until they pay us any attention, right? So we need them to win in four games or lose in four games.
Speaker: And then I think if you were to get rid of him, you would then be in a position where you and you can get a new sporting director or you put in a CEO and split out the role of sporting director into a slightly different structure. Because we've tried it and it worked under Weber.
Speaker: you know, trophies, silverware wise, Cat 1 status, it worked under Webber, lovely veg patch. um It hasn't worked under Napa. So, if if, would you get behind that if that was announced on Monday, Claire?
Speaker: Yes, I think so. I think, he has run out of chances now because we were having this same conversation this time last year and he bought himself some time because Philippe was a great catch as a manager. we couldn't, you know, quite believe we'd got him. And then obviously things happened in the way they happened and we turned our season around.
Speaker: But that was probably just covering over the cracks that were already there and are clearly still there. um so ah So something has definitely got to change. But sort of going back to your points before, like...
Speaker: it it We're in the same position as we were this time last year, but it does feel different. I've still got some hope that we've got the right manager and the players are decent enough that we can turn this around. What the catalyst of that is, it's difficult to know.
Speaker: i would hope that a seismic change behind the scenes would do something. um
Speaker: But I was sort of thinking back to when I was travelling back home on the train. i think we just lost to Leicester last season. i was that i think that was the game that Manning actually got sacked after, wasn't it? And before he got sacked, or was on the train, I just felt so desolate. Like I could not see any positives at all. I can still see positives now. Yeah, agree.
Speaker: So i'm i'm not I'm not as upset and angry and sad as I was this time last year, but I think Napa has run out of chances because ah there's just no there's no explanation really for what is going on right now other than that something is fundamentally wrong.
Speaker: behind the scenes. ah ah I mean, we don't know. we're clued We are clutching at straws. We don't know what's going on. Well, a lot of the what's fundamentally wrong is this is the balance of the squad and the the fact that Napa has flip-flopped between we really need senior people, actually, no, we really yeah we need youth.
Speaker: you know, pick pick a culture. what Which is it? do Do we have kids and and flip them for for decent cash? um If so, i feel like you're going to need to keep replenishing your spine of senior leaders to to keep to keep that going. and yeah like I cannot forgive him for not being able to sign a goalie. and I thought Grimshaw was very good off his line on Saturday. He was good on Saturday. Credit where it's due. He did a really good job of being really, really fast to the edge of his area.
Speaker: um Punt. Would you put Vlad back in on Saturday? way. I would drive Vlad to any interesting to see what happens. Yeah. and I think he comes straight back in. I think he comes straight back in. Punt, can you see a scenario given he's been there, seen it, done it and doesn't want a relegation on his CV?
Speaker: do you Can you see Philippe walk in? Because that's I currently think that is the most likely outcome. um If he were to leave and if it doesn't turn around... and I think he's more likely to go before he's pushed because I think that suits his... I think that's more plays to his character.
Speaker: i can't see him do it I can't see him getting to the point where he's being asked, are you the man to take this forward by Chris Gorham twice a week like Liam was? i He's not having that.
Speaker: I think that the club got off light on Saturday for the very reason that there was probably a lot of people... um of a certain vintage that did not want to kick off for you just because of you know just because of the respect that they show for Michael Wynne-Jones and for Delia on a day like it was. And I think it could have got a lot more toxic had that not had it not been the occasion that it was on Saturday.
Speaker: i
Speaker: i see I see your point and i can ah could see him walking away if the club didn't put him out of his misery, but I just think it would it would get horrible. It would get absolutely horrible. I mean, Clement, to his credit, post-game, led the applause. like So walked around, you know, kind of all four stands and was the guy, you know, fronting up and applauding supporters. And and that was met in a...
Speaker: not so measured way. um But I don't think he's too far away. And look, it I think it has if this goes on for another two, three, four games, he's out of excuses. He's probably out of credit and he probably does deserve. like you know If ah any manager in any division loses...
Speaker: you know, eight games on the spin, they definitely deserve to have their job questioned significantly, if not, you know, lose their job. So he's not too far away. Especially because of who they're playing.
Speaker: so that so So basically, nate is na Nathan Jones chart manager? Yeah. I mean, what a weapon. Whoever loses is is getting that question on. no You couldn't even beat the slot.
Speaker: I mean, it's it's embarrassing enough to lose to Pompey on a day when... And and this is the thing that think... the the unit You're not fit fit to wear the shirt, which, again, I messaged before, the you know, to you guys during the game, because it was... There were elements of it. There wasn't a blood and dunder. If you cannot...
Speaker: on a day like today, if you cannot put... If you can watch Portsmouth, um and this isn't Premier League-era Portsmouth, and this is you know you know going to be in a relegation battle all season, Portsmouth, in the Championship. If you can watch them play it across your back four and just stand still and not be driving forward. Now, I liked that Wright was trying to wave the front three forward to press.
Speaker: ah If I'm right, and i know he's a kid, and so any yeah know he hasn't known ah Michael very long, but if i'm if I'm any part of that, if I'm Jack Stacey... and Anyone other than the goalie, in that in that scenario, I am just running from my position and going, well, I'll fucking press them then, right? Because this is embarrassing. We're at home.
Speaker: We've got Delia grieving for Michael. We're all grieving for for Michael. He's been incredible for the club. This is a really emotional day. Fucking go and get the ball, boys. Like, this is embarrassing. This is our living room or or our lounge or whatever it was Daniel said, right? Yeah.
Speaker: This is embarrassing. This is not good enough. And unfortunately, there were eight, nine of them that weren't fit to wear the shirt and they should be ashamed. Now, most, most, it's the sort performance that makes me think and say things about modern footballers and how they don't give a shit about the badge and feel that actually, you know what, the second any of them are not playing for Norwich anymore,
Speaker: they will be dead to us and we'll be dead to them. That's the kind of performance it was. And what made it more poignant was the lineup of legends on the pitch. Yeah. Words that they said like Redmond. my god what we'd give for some of those on the pitch today. and Those that have come those those just settled afterwards, those that have settled in the you know and brought up their kids and in some cases grandkids, right? Because some of them are getting on a bit, right?
Speaker: And, you know, the fact that you've got and people like Roy Hodgson who who can't be short of an invitation on a Saturday afternoon, right? Players who, loads of whom are now local because of the the family, community, nature of the football club. ah a a A community that that Michael and Delia kept going and nourished and nurtured. So i think you're right, Punt.
Speaker: We held off... some toxicity for that reason. But it's also why when I think it was the, know, when the goal went in, that was the, we want Napa out. There was no Clement stuff. It was all we want Napa out. Yeah. But effectively we, we have had enough now of someone who doesn't tell us what the plan is. Someone whose plan changes. If you're just going to read it his plan based on, on actions.
Speaker: Um, I think as a fan base, I think we are now all as one, that we are sick of the business side of the football club. you know that they are they They still haven't earned any credit back from the whole you know director's box volleys of abuse they were getting during the Manning era and hiding and not coming out and saying anything.
Speaker: Well, they haven't done the engagement that they said they were going to do around the relocation of the supporters. They've they've changed the load of corporate areas, not asked anyone about it, just did it. And I mean, you know, they've changed the gun club. They've changed the fact that you can't access Yellow's pre-match.
Speaker: None of this thing was done in, you know, in consultation with supporters. And you can say what you like about, you know, the way in which Delia and Michael ran the club. But there was conversations with fans about the Lion and Castle. Long come Norwich were instrumental and and ah setting a lot of that up. but there was loads of other supporters that were talked to about that because it is a fundamental change to people Saturday afternoons that they're making.
Speaker: And they don't give a shit. They do not give a shit about talking to fans. And the only reason they changed their tune was because the ownership told them that they had to.
Speaker: So the the the people in charge of the business side of the club, the way I see it, have utter contempt for supporters. And it is purely about trying to shift the bottom line so that we earn a little bit more money so that our, you know, whatever the, it's not PSR anymore, is it? i can't remember the the acronym for it, but, you know, whatever that is, you know, kind of that that we're earning a little bit more money, we're generating a bit more cash so that we can balance the books in terms of the financial fair play.
Speaker: And, look, you know, I don't want to go or Rob Butler, you know, kind in terms of I don't support a balance sheet. But there is an element of that to this. But there's also the fact that they are custodians of the football club in terms of the executive.
Speaker: We will be here in 5, 10, 15, 25 years. twenty five years They won't. They will be long gone. They will be pensioned. They will you know they will be very, very comfortable.
Speaker: You have to, if you want to take a supporter base with you, especially when things are going badly, you have to talk to them. You have to be honest with them. you You have to say, these are the changes that we're looking to make. How can we achieve that together? Especially so in a community club like you've just talked about, Tom, like Norwich City. um And they just don't do it.
Speaker: And they don't care about it. They really do not care about it. and then if this was France, we'd be on the streets with petrol bombs. like you know kind of like that That is probably the extent of this.
Speaker: um There would be significant support for unrest. It's just not good enough. It's nowhere near good enough. And I can't believe we've got here so quickly.
Speaker: I think that will happen after, um if we do not turn it around against Charlton. Watford would it be horrible. This is one of the listener questions. but Let's do listener questions then, go on. Toby Bigson, what happens what happens if we lose versus Charlton?
Speaker: Well, i think I think people start chanting ah from almost from the first mistake at Watford. So we we even in against Manning, we didn't boo at kickoff.
Speaker: Almost. the Well, yeah, but it was basically the first time someone played it backwards instead of forwards or kicked the ball out of play. then then Then it will start. And i I think it will be, I don't know, I almost feel like we need to concentrate our ire in a direction that is going to make a difference. And I was thinking about this earlier,
Speaker: yesterday, i was doing some commuting and I was just, I was thinking it, I always, yeah i'm I'm not half full, I'm up and down all over the shop like a roller coaster, because I'm yeah bonkers. But i i I do want, if I want to feel something about the football club, I want i want it to be i want it to be positive energy. I always want effort and um output to to have some kind of positive benefit. Otherwise, what is the point? You only get one spin on this earth and life's too short to be cross
Speaker: And there'll be no nothing that changes off the back of it. yeah So I almost feel like, whilst I'm not suggesting we all get our bedsheets, I almost do feel like if we lose against Charlton, there needs to be some there needs to be some ringing round on social media where we all agree, are we going after here?
Speaker: who who Who is it that we, as one fan base, we need to make it but you know with yeah as as best as possible not to put the players off?
Speaker: But you know going into half-time, you know towards the end of the game, if it's out of hand, if it's 2-0, I think most football fans really sort of get when, oh, if you booed now, it'll put them off kind of thing. I think most football fans do get that.
Speaker: And they only really kick off when they think this game's gone. and I just feel like we we need to be as one as a football fan base to try and make the Atanasio absentee landlords listen to the fact that we will stop spending money because we will be here in five, 10, 15, 20 years.
Speaker: And plenty of people will go, well, it's shit. I can get a ticket easily in League One. I can get a ticket easily. like that that i was i had to go and sort something out because the digital ticket thing went wrong.
Speaker: and And, you know, they would I could have picked up a day ticket a day ticket for a festival. Could have picked up a ticket casually for port Portsmouth, like an hour and half before kickoff, right? You can get a ticket when we're shitting the championship.
Speaker: Why have a season ticket? Why buy a shirt? Why buy a membership if the club doesn't give a fuck about me? If the club isn't interested in me, then I'll actually wait until you lot fuck off. This is very sweary one, sorry, but I am bit exercised.
Speaker: um i'll wait to now and I'll wait until you lot are not here anymore and then I'll come back. And if we're in the National League or if we're in the need to, then again, i think I'll be all right getting a seat. um And I'll get behind a project where someone explains to us that, look, actually, we've only got 500 grand for a striker. So, he's you know, he's not going to be Erling Haaland. But...
Speaker: every goal will mean that much more. do you know what I mean? I'll sit out for a couple of years because that's what will that's what the Atanasios need to realize. If they want to flip this asset they've bought, they need to invest in the asset. And at the moment, the people who are monitoring it, the people working the shop floor are incompetent.
Speaker: Along those lines, another question from Adrian Lincoln, do things have to get worse to get better? The club needs an overhaul from top to bottom. A bit like when we got relegated to League One and it was like the start are new and are fresh and just rebuild from the beginning. Well, three weeks in. Start fresh three weeks into the new Egon season. We need another recess just after. but it but then it it it had start it had started ahead of that. David McNally had been appointed. he you know hit And he was, I mean, I think if you got him in a quiet moment, well, maybe not even a quiet moment now, and you said to him, look, did you have a bad feeling about Gunny as manager?
Speaker: He would have nodded furiously and said, but yeah, I couldn't really sack him you know before you know because my predecessor had appointed him. um And he was Gunny. And he was Gunny, yeah, absolutely, the the man, the legend. But that was the appointment of a strong CEO with absolute football and business acumen who could do it all.
Speaker: I think you know we've we've beaten around the bush a little bit, but... I think most of us would be in agreement that someone like that would not be unwelcome at at the football club. I mean, ah Claire, you'll probably then come on to one of the other listener questions, which yeah was, lead would you to that well, would you take Stuart Webber back at the club? And I think a I'll just answer it now. Absolutely not.
Speaker: um You try never to go back. But at the same time, well, you just have to look at the the returns of maybe Robert Fleck and Mike Walker to say, look, don't go back. um But...
Speaker: And my God, we moaned about Weber at times as well. Exactly. And this is the thing, right? So, like, he he had... yeah talk We talked about contempt for supporters. He was so open about his contempt for supporters towards the end that I just... I couldn't see him being a ah popular... But, it you know, it speaks to the the position that some people are in, the head this headspace that people are in, that you need... you know, look, Weber, for all of his faults...
Speaker: had a lot of football acumen about him and you know knew the game, had good contacts, had good recruitment networks. um Clearly changed his philosophy towards the end and that felt like desperation. you know he He wanted, a I don't know, keeping Norwich in the Premier League on his CV.
Speaker: But before that, I mean, what he did was wonderful at the football club in terms of like completely transforming it, forming it. And it it feels like we are... very quickly hurtling towards one of those key moments where it you know it will be a sliding doors moment.
Speaker: you know Do we now completely invest in you know something different or do we just lurch into League One and then have to do it anyway? um And that is really quite depressing.
Speaker: I still can't see Clement not being the manager at the end of the season. I definitely can. i i I still think that... but Because I think that he has put enough... Well, it depends on what changes in the the leadership, but I made this... I've used this analogy previously. my My point of view is, having had McNally and seen what's come after McNally, having had Ben Kensal and seen what's come after Ben Kensal, having had Farco and then seen what's come after...
Speaker: i'm I swore that after having Manning and it being so dreadful and you know basically trying to replace Farkham and Wagner and all that, I just pine for Farker and it's not pining for him as ah as a you know character or whatever, figure of fun that he is, or even really, yeah obviously the success is great, but it's also just the this the spirit and the togetherness and the identity, like knowing how going play is so nice. and Clement gave me that for three or four months this year, this calendar year. And it was way longer of a run than a flash in a pan. It wasn't a new manager bounce.
Speaker: You know, it was it was sustained identity, players playing with the shackles off, breathing new life into um ah players who had who'd gone off the boil or we thought were duds.
Speaker: players coming back into the squad from injury, and you know real dynamism. i mean, going back to the early days of this season, we looked like we were going to score every time we touched the ball. We've had some great performances this season, but they feel like years ago now. that's But that's the thing. And that's the massive difference between this bad run and any Wagner, Manning,
Speaker: and Roda, you know you name it, Worthington, you name it, right? There's massive difference. Like this season, we... I can still see there being a very, very solid upper mid table finish for this team.
Speaker: not yeah know Playoffs is feels bonkers, even though compared to last season, we've got plenty of time. And more spaces. Yeah, but well, exactly. But I can still see that because I've seen this manager do it.
Speaker: And I've seen loads of these players do it. And I've seen these players do it ah six weeks ago. Six weeks ago, I saw Slimani be a world beater. You know, six weeks ago, I saw Maxson be one of the best centre midfielders in the league.
Speaker: So I still think we've got a really exciting season ahead of us. And... I think that we the the supporters have now got so furious that something needs to happen to make a change.
Speaker: But I wouldn't change Clermont. And I don't think I'd even change Clermont if we lose at Charlton. It depends on the manner and it depends on if the players look like they've given up on him. Because then even if we think Clermont's great and the ownership think Clermont's great and all the data points to us, it being narrow margins, if Magoma isn't listening to him anymore, you know if Mattson isn't motivated to run through brick walls anymore, if they don't want to press until their lungs burn for him anymore, even if he's a great manager, if that if something there is broken...
Speaker: then what do you do? how how do you How do you motivate the squad? Because you're not going to be able to change enough of the squad in January to be able to get new people who are motivated by Cologne. But that's why I was kind of fairly... No, not fairly. I took positives from Saturday because in the second half and at the end of the second half, we were...
Speaker: Trying. We were really trying. The players that came on, the substitutes, were positive. They really wanted to score a goal. It didn't happen. It nearly did.
Speaker: Like you said, if Pellers had gone in, we'd have probably gone on to win or at least taken a point. So if it was flipped and it was the first half was the second half, I would be like, oh my God, this is we just can't turn this around.
Speaker: But seeing the second half in the way that I did and the positivity from the substitutes, I'm like, this is not lost. There is still some hope here. I really liked my hovo on the wing. know there was quite a lot of talk about that as being a bit kind of left field and like, what the hell are we doing?
Speaker: But I thought it was awesome. I thought it was awesome when he came on. Totally agree. He got on the ground with it. I can see that working. I could see it. I think it was more what it suggested around Ben Napa's recruitment. So it was like, hang on, how much money have we spent on right-wingers? Like Antti Cernac, Matai, Juracek, Amanquaforsen, you know. But we haven't seen enough of Luchin and Philippe hasn't probably worked with him enough. Like he's obviously seen something in him that he thinks this could work. So I don't think it's like...
Speaker: death Like we said on the damn field, maybe he is he is making that point to the supporters and to the Atacios. Or that. I'd like be less cynical than that. like I think Clermont is as cynical as they come. I think he is i just see unicorns and fairies. so Think of the clubs that he's had to manage at and some of the real man-as-a-box-of-frogs infrastructures he's had to to be at on the continent and and in Rangers. Oh yeah, he's very clever.
Speaker: You do have to send a message and you do have to be, you do have to kind of make your point in multiple ways and, and and you know, it's a big decision making unit that you need to, you know, and schmooze to to get your your point across. And i but I would almost go 50-50.
Speaker: He thought he looks really fresh, he looks really fit. We've got to just throw something that is that is an X factor. I love the idea of putting him there. And also, i think I'd be amazed if he didn't send a little message or have a little word afterwards to, i guess maybe Richard or whoever was was there from the ownership group to just go,
Speaker: Did you notice that I was playing left back there on right wing when I'm when i'm like fighting for our lives in a six game losing streak? It's not great in terms of squad depth and balance, is it?
Speaker: Right? Yeah. OK, fair, fair, fair. And and the fitness coaches or the medical people, um that we've hired, are they Napa hires? has you know is naer Is Napa no good at fixing the injury? Because that's on him more than... So if Clement is doing triple sessions, hopping up mouse hold in a sweat box, like the old 60s, then yeah.
Speaker: But what we hear is he's you know he's intense in what he asks for. but we we would be hearing because we've heard it before when managers have really really driven I remember some of the early Fark days when managers have really driven double sessions and really pushed the players the players complain and bitch and moan about it and we ah and it always comes out that that has not that i fit not come out around this but not in the losing run but not in the losing run like that you know that would be front and centre because they want to get they want to leak their their excuses for why it's not on us it's because we're tired bless us
Speaker: um and I don't know. is i know we We know it's saveable because we saw it get saved last year. And I think it was saved from a worse position than this last year.
Speaker: um So i i choose to i choose to to the kind of lean on data there. and And also that i was I was lower on the football side than I am this season at this point.
Speaker: but I don't think I was quite as annoyed with the off the field as I am this season. I think that's the difference. The difference is I really do feel like we are just on a merry-go-round where the wrong person is in charge.
Speaker: And the the football club needs a better communicator, a bit of leadership to make us feel like if they are really plugged in, tell us. If they're not absentee landlords and actually they've spent more time thinking about us than they have the Brewers, great.
Speaker: Tell us. Now would be a really good time to make you look good. So they're either getting advised or they don't care or they're incompetent. And I just certainly don't think they're incompetent. Very smart business people.
Speaker: So with that, are there any other quick list of questions we haven't touched on?
Speaker: Well, one was just, what the fuck is going on? But I think we've tried to cover that. We don't really like to know. We really don't know We don't know. the one on Brooks, ah what his attitude, because he looked like he stormed off down the tunnel. Apparently that's the second time as well he's done it. yeah he's He looks a shadow of the player that that we thought we signed. He was very poor on Saturday.
Speaker: Very poor. He looks like him as... Maybe he's just up for the fight. i I think he doesn't like playing with Stacey. There is definitely that. You can see the difference yeah when Lucha Mahome came on. They just don't get on. No, they don't. i'm not they're not um They've stopped running each other.
Speaker: They've stopped doing overlaps for each other. They've stopped, you know, two or three times. And that's the sort of thing that coaching-wise you think is really easy to fix. um I don't know about the storming down a tunnel. He might just really need a wee. You know, that's not... He threw his shirt off to to do it.
Speaker: Well, he might have been hot. But no, I don't know. don't know if he's not enough to be hot. was quite chilly on Saturday. But you even get that at Sunday League. That's the sort of thing that two wins, that's completely forgotten. It's better than him skipping down the tunnel being happy about it, isn't it? At least it shows he cares about something. He is probably extremely frustrated that he was getting goal contributions and doing his backflips. And now he is in a team that cannot get a goal for love, no money result for anything. And they must be really confused because it is not what we said. We had this conversation last week. This is what we're going to find out for.
Speaker: So I think we need something seismic. um We need something to rip the bandaid off and a short, sharp shot. I think that they've got to be, once the World Series is done, they've got to be looking at Napa and some senior positions at the football club.
Speaker: There's got to be ah an element of new broom. Now they might not do it until they make a decision on the manager. If they're forced by results in another month to make a decision on the manager, maybe they just go, right, well,
Speaker: Clement is gone. You're not allowed to pick the next one because you're off two. You can totally see that happening. But I just think that Clement is a good enough tactician with enough good players in the squad on their day that he can pull out a couple of victories by a bit more credit.
Speaker: and then build from there. i I just think that he's got it in him to do it. And what do you guarantee the score being on Saturday, Claire?
Speaker: Shall we not all guess that we win this weekend? look you just Don't worry, I want to go into it. The heart wants what the heart wants. I'm going to... God, I have no idea. don't want to say we're going to lose.
Speaker: I'll say one all. We're going to get a draw at last and it might just kick us on because we haven't lost. But I'm not going to go as far to say as we're going to win because that's ridiculous.
Speaker: One all. And the scorer is going to be Lucia Mohovo.
Speaker: Up front. I was going to say, is he playing as number nine in the last five minutes getting as an equaliser? or he's Or he's in goal. Last minute equaliser. He's in goal and he's come up for a corner in the last minute. Huntelicious?
Speaker: Nil-nil and Grimmy saves a pen. He's got to be in goal to do that. I think he'll be. yeah I think he'll be. Well, no, actually, I do think Vlad comes back if he's fit, but I wouldn't. and i you know look we We touched on it, but his distribute his longer distribution in the very, very small sample section we've had thus far has been way better than Vlad's, way better.
Speaker: um Yeah, no, no, I'd i'd continue with him. And yeah, nil-nil. going to be a right board draw. But we get a point. Exactly. Exactly. Stop the rot and all that.
Speaker: Yeah. I think we win 3-0, Nathan Jones. I need a bird to poo on my head again. That was Charlton away last year. I don't stand outside.
Speaker: i think we need... I think that short, sharp shock might be a performance that no one sees coming against a team who... you know they can't see where our win's coming from. they They are low in confidence. And maybe ah we can actually, maybe the the way we bizarrely set up as the away team, bizarrely set up to be pressed, maybe actually that works better and on Saturday against the team fighting for their manager's life. Maybe they don't want the manager to have a life anymore.
Speaker: um Yeah, i i think I think it comes on on Saturday and it gives us something to build on because we still do have another two or three winnable games after that as well. We just need that initial spark to build some momentum from. to have You'd have thought you'd be the positive one and me and John would be the negative ones. I know what's happening.
Speaker: What's happening? Well, stop the clock and all that. and So thank you so much, Claire, for your wisdom and insight and calf up half force.
Speaker: Punt as ever, i acknowledge you exist. And good luck for your new job tomorrow. I love you dearly. Everyone else, bye Hagen. Bye.
