Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast, where clinical callous canaries collect clean conquests, constantly converting chances and crushing colossal competition. Opposing crowds are calling for calamitous coaches' heads after every clinical capitulation. And this week we celebrate our calculated climb with a special guest. It's Pink and Connor.
Speaker: Claire, I underestimated just how many we were going to score. When does that happen? I know. Stats being broken all over the place. Records flying. I love it. I love it. It's like it was last year when NCFC numbers is just working overtime.
Speaker: Brilliant, brilliant stuff. Nine million a week. I mean, it's just none of us guessed that, did we? Not even you. no no no. It's not often that I seem conservative. but I said one all.
Speaker: well you Well, quite. Yes, yes. I think you should could continue with that. Connor, has it been quite pleasant ah being on the road with Norwich the last seven days?
Speaker: been a bit unnerving I think i always always worry a little bit when we we get a run like this and um things all feel like they're they're going a little bit too well and you think there's there's a punch in the face waiting around the corner so yeah it has been nice I mean I must admit I i didn't so i wasn't at the Derby game last Tuesday it was my my partner's birthday so I value my life so I decided not to make that good so I did watch it on TV managed to squeeze that in And I sat at home and I was a little bit envious actually, because it's a bit like, oh, you know, you do all those miles and then a 4-0 away win. How often do they come up on the road? And I was at Bristol on Saturday and it was five. So I feel like that sort of buried that particular ghost for me. So, yeah, it's it's been really nice, really pleasant. It's been great to see bouncing away and smiles on faces. And hopefully now, long may that continue deep into the season.
Speaker: It was limbs aplenty, Punt, and one of the, whilst he didn't get a first half hat-trick, as i I guaranteed, wonderful to see Christie get the opportunity to somersault and put in yet another fantastic performance.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, a love stream no I'm not sure I've seen Norwich City striker for a long time work as hard as he has. you okay he it is ridiculous the amount of running he gets through.
Speaker: and You just love to see their energy rewarded. I'm really surprised he got player of the month. You're surprised? Yeah. I thought Paris might be shout for that. Actually, I thought almost he might be a shoo-in for that, given his current run of form. But then I guess some of that bridges into November. So, you know, maybe that's that's the reason for it. But no, he's been excellent. You know, as Tom, you know, i I hate to say when you might be on to something, but actually you might have been right about um not necessarily the two up top, but Chris Goran in behind Makama.
Speaker: And it is, you know, as Claire highlighted on the socials, and I think, Connor, you did as well, there's been some lovely noise about Jovan this week. And it is wonderful to see, like you know, colleagues who who look across the EFL, you know, kind and and beyond that, actually go, no, this kid could go right to the top. So it's not just Christie. It is, you Makama...
Speaker: Makama looks every inch now when he's introduced like the the Premier League striker. And they said on the the' not Not the Top 20 pod, light he's in the Premier League next year, like whether it's with Norwich or not. And that made me a little scared, but excited all at the same time.
Speaker: I was quite surprised they suggested he was going to be playing for England by 2028, though. i'm I'm not, though. like Really? england England struggle with strikers a bit, I think. Yeah, I guess. If Dominic Calvert-Lewin is in the conversation as good as he's been all season, ah actually, Jovan's going usurp him within like six months, right? Yeah, and there's ah ah there's someone who's there's someone who's getting on a bit who isn't going to be there at the next World Cup, for example. So they do need to they do need to have a conveyor belt of two or three people because you you do get the impression that it's a big ask to... to go from a balloon door winner to um to having someone else who does it all and has the team on their back and plays most of the minutes and gets all of the goals. So, you know, you think we should probably go back to having two or three nines that are going to play a part and go in and out of a form for England. But, Conor, the the attributes he has...
Speaker: When you have a player who is physical, can play on his own, can has got technical ability, so could play as part of a two and interacts really well with a 10, is good in the air, ah etc, etc, et etc. And he's young and he's English.
Speaker: I mean, that that's why he was getting, you know, you know ah loving looks in January, right? I mean, he's got it all. Yeah, he so he's he's got everything and I think it's it's quite rare at this level, particularly for someone at his age and someone of his stature actually, because i mean, how many of those kind of big guys do you see in the championship who are just battering rams and they're one dimensional and some of them are very, very effective at it, by the way. So it's not to kind of do those down, but then you add the pace that he's got and it's like, okay, so he's strong and he's quick. And then all of the the kind of details that you've listed there as well. He's the full package, I think, as a striker. and i I think John's right fundamentally when you think a couple of years ago, maybe even more recent than that, there was a real debate in the game about where had the number nines gone? Has modern football kind of killed the the traditional, big, strong, complete number nines in that sense? and I think is it's is really unique that
Speaker: Norwich have kind of uncovered him in in a sense, because these are all attributes that typically you would associate with a top level academy. And he is not someone who has been in a top level academy. He's been nurtured in in kind of lower leagues. He obviously had that stint out wide. I think that's probably done wonders for him as well in terms of his profile and his understanding of the game and some of the runs that that he makes. um And actually, I think it it probably first dawned on me, actually, when I i went down England, 20 runs played at Coward Road in early this year, I think. And um went down to to Park Farm Hotel where they were based and got to speak to Lee Carsley. And Jovan wasn't in the squad at that point, but they asked him a question about him and and he was absolutely raving about him. um And it was almost like, oh, wow, okay. So the FA really rate him highly. And it's been quite surprising, and it's maybe not surprising, but there's obviously been so much focus put on Will Lanxier. And he's he's a talented player, a good finisher in his in his own right.
Speaker: I do sort of think, you know, if you put Jovan McCalmer in that Middlesbrough team, I think he'd probably score even more goals if I'm being honest. um But I think if you if you put them side by side, and this is the point that, you know, to to John's point that they're not the top 20 guys were we're speaking about, and I completely agree, I think McCormick is more kind of Premier League ready now because of those physical attributes that that he has. And, you know, I think next summer may be a bit hopeful. I think it could even be January that um some Norwich get some knocks at their door for him. so if If he stays fit and he keeps producing like he is, mean, we've still got another you know six no hang on we've got six weeks left of this calendar year, which means we've actually got 11 to 12 weeks until the the the window shuts.
Speaker: I mean, if he stays fit and keeps playing, bear in mind, that's probably what about 18, 17, 18 championship games in that time. know He could well so get another eight, nine goals and continue to look this good.
Speaker: Then there may well be an injury and there might be a team who are hovering around the 15th, 16th position. You can easily see it coming. and then it comes down to... You know, Claire, your your hubber, Big Daddy Phil, how well has he got his arm around him? How well has he said, look at the players that I've coached and brought through the game. Look at what I've done for their careers.
Speaker: Please, can you give us just a few more months and get us over the line? I kind of feel like that you can definitely feel that togetherness with the team now, can't you? I think you highlighted it, Jose Cordoba's celebrations at the end of the game. They all seem very, very together, even the ones that have been dropped and aren' aren't playing. So I would hope that that kind of whole family nature would would make Jove think twice about going somewhere in January, that he would want to just finish this season and see where he can get Norwich, you know how far we can go with him. um
Speaker: But it's crazy to think that he's not even starting the games and we're here raving about him potentially going to the Premier League and playing for England and he's not even starting. You know, we've got that luxury of bringing him off the bench. it's It's insane, really. The quality that we've got on the bench at the moment. I know, you know, everyone points their fingers at Napa when things are going bad, but he's also built that squad that we've got Pella Mattson and Kenny McLean sitting on the bench and we don't particularly want them...
Speaker: starting the match next match because we've got Sam Field and Jacob Wright playing so brilliantly in the middle as well. it's It's a brilliant luxury to have but crazy at the same time.
Speaker: ah Punt, one of the things that we were trying to stay calm about during the terrible run was the fine margins and and the fact that we have seen these players be capable earlier this calendar year.
Speaker: I almost feel like the embarrassment, it's incredible what yeah admittedly four victories in a row, but it's incredible what a relatively short period of success does to you suddenly feeling like we've now got a squad with an embarrassment of riches because now all of a sudden you've got a really exciting left back. I've Really, like every... Darlan Yong-wa, every minute of him I see, i think what I think we've signed an absolute corker. But you've got Chris Eni, who can also score cultured volleys from the edge of the box. He's done three of them now. And i know and for me, Yong-wa would probably take the nod. Likewise, at centre-back, you've got the ability to take Jose out after having a couple of clown car performances. I thought Darling was...
Speaker: You know, i I prefer him anyway. I thought he was superb at the weekend. and We are watching the highlights back and putting his body on the line when he doesn't need to because the game's already won. So, yeah, punt. It's mad, really, how we were trying to convince ourselves everything's OK. And now we feel like we've got competition in every position again.
Speaker: I'm trying to convince myself not to get carried away. I think that's where I'm at now um because it would be really easy to do that. And we have played probably a satellite like five or six halves of football.
Speaker: We've looked like the old Norwich that we had under Clermont last season. And that is incredibly encouraging. You can probably sense there's a but coming here. i It's always a but. You were born with a but.
Speaker: It is is's always a but. And I don't like to be that guy, but I am that guy. um there was a There was a moment... at the Valley, when we were 1-0 down, where I genuinely thought, is this the last game Phil Clement has as manager or head coach of Norwich City Football Club?
Speaker: There is a time, ah you know, at Watford, or sorry, against Watford at Carrow Road, where we're 2-0 down and we're staring down the barrel. There is a time on Saturday, as much as we won 5-0, where we're 1-0 up, but we're not playing particularly well. And actually, Bristol haven't created loads, but in terms of territory and and the ball, they've probably bested us. I mean, I think it, you know,
Speaker: very kind of low margins in terms of besting us. But I felt like they were half decent. We got the second goal and then, you know, it's a procession from there on in. But we kept saying about fine margins, fine margin ah earlier in the season, and it it has transpired. And it it's we kept emphasising the point that if we can start making a few of these matches go our way, then suddenly momentum is huge in the Championship. So I think that's what we've got right now.
Speaker: But I just want to keep that measure of like when we get through the next three or four games and you know there are a few more trickier tests, actually, will we have the medal? And I still just want to hang on to the, could we be flat track bullies, like i said on the last pod, or are we actually just really bloody good? um And I'd like to think it's the latter. And I think with a fair wind, it it could well be. um The other couple of things I'd just say whilst they're in my head is I'd probably, see you're Darlan Yonghua and probably raise you a Lucien Mahovo. I think he probably is the most talented left-back. He's a right-winger now, mate. He doesn't play left-back. out of necessity but you know I think he's the best I think looks brilliant think it's out necessity I think he looks superb think he looks great there I mean it is blatantly out necessity because we haven't got anyone else to play there like it's like come on but also to Claire's point about her second favourite there was time when we had to throw Chris Sutton up front just saying her second favourite But Ben Napa, careful, John, careful. I'm sorry, but you are the resident Napa apologist, right? Yeah, for balance.
Speaker: Okay, so for balance, I would like to make the point, right, that traditionally Norwich City haven't been amazing at signing strikers at times in their history. And Ben Napa has, look, we've just eulogised about all of them.
Speaker: Ben Napa has, so well, not all of them. but we have It's quite a good one injured. but Yeah, exactly. He's signed three really good strikers. Now, I don't know how much um Big Daddy Phil has to do with Motore when he comes in, but actually the other two are very much on Ben Napa. And the fact that he and his recruitment team unearthed Jovan McCarma when...
Speaker: Didn't really feel like anyone else was looking at him. And I remember remember the day we signed him and like my mate's kid came up to me and went, oh, we've signed a lad from Lincoln. And I was like, oh, must just be someone for the development squad. Never heard of him, you know, like and hadn't played that many games for Lincoln, hadn't scored that many goals for Lincoln. It's not like he was top scorer in League One or anything. This isn't like one of those lazy, oh, let's just pick a Peterborough striker because he scored 35 goals again. You know kind of it's not one of those ones. this This was a genuine, like actually got to the bottom of it and signed a really talented um lad.
Speaker: So, yeah, eight him and the recruitment team absolutely needed a hell of a lot of credit for certainly the offensive players that they've signed. That's been massive. So, Connor, I'm interested in the the vibe in and around the presses because it got really quite testy with Phil for what felt like the the first time. and You know, there's been the odd...
Speaker: you know, he he showed he was steely in the early days because not like he started winning straight away. going to have to mention Birmingham away again last season. and Oh no, don't. this has beenney life There's been the odd there's been the odd testy remark, but you know there's been a couple of presses towards the end of the really bad run we just had where he did it did look like he was going to throw Paddy out the window. and and a bit I'd be interested in your take as to that camaraderie and that spirit. Like,
Speaker: Is it the fact that it's more we're looking post-match with rose-tinted glasses and oh, they're all getting on now? Did you guys feel that in and around the team talking to people doing the pre-match and post-match stuff in the difficult run as well? Or do you feel that's gone up a level siege mentality? interested in your thoughts on that.
Speaker: um Well, I mean, everything it helps when you win, doesn't it? Everything quietens down to to an extent. I think what why i would say about Philippe is he's usually pretty much, he's pretty consistent, um which isn't the case for for all of the head coaches, but he is generally the football, an embodiment of the football cliche, never too high, never too low. I mean, the the one you're referring to I don't he likes a couple of Paddy's questions.
Speaker: what would that been pre-derby, I think, maybe thought they were bit negative. If you actually watch post-derby, he does kind of apologise for, I think, maybe how front-footed he was in that particular one. I think he sort of was a bit like... It was why focusing on the negatives. We've just managed to turn around whatever and you're focusing on negatives. Exactly. He just wanted to speak about the positives. But actually, I think,
Speaker: Paddy did get some really good answers out of him and in that particular moment. So, um yeah, it it is always balance. I know people like to to see us told off and stuff, which is fine. I understand it. But um he's he's generally been really good for us. but I think he understands. I think he understands, um you know, it's usually with with some let's say, I'm trying to word this in a kind way, some some of the old coaches who have been there maybe haven't, don't want to use the term play the game because it it sort of gamifies it a bit and it's not that, but some of them have been less forthcoming and more private and more guarded and that's absolutely fine as well. Each is is different. I think he he kind of is is good enough at kind of throwing a crumb every so often that is is really interesting um as well. So he understands that's that side of it. But again, I don't think his mood ever changed. I think what I would say is
Speaker: I got the sense um the national media report that that was put out a couple of weeks ago, I think that irked him and and probably them in particular. and I mean, the reality is Daniel Vark had the same thing in 2017, didn't he? and and And we went back and looked at some of his quotes from the time and they were really...
Speaker: really quite telling and in that, you know, actually for a head coach, you're not picking the vast majority of players. So, and this is where kind of the idea of losing a dressing room and all of this stuff, I think is, it becomes a little bit cliche because there is so many different emotions and feelings and and there'll be players that are unhappy, players who are ambivalent, players who are delighted because they're in the team every week and playing well. So i think it is a pretty fluid, pretty, um,
Speaker: yeah uh flexible but but also pretty delicate sort of situation so if you're winning games everyone's generally pretty happy if you're not then suddenly you begin to hear a few murmurs around so um i think generally he is he's managed that group really well they're a young group and i think we see it in terms of the way that they play i mean you look at the the results what is it seven wins nine defeats that is objectively hilarious however you I think it is in many ways the good summary of this team, which is emotional. And when they're good, they're outstanding. um And when they're bad, they're usually pretty bad. And there's not a lot of in-between between those things. And think that, to John's point, is is probably where we now need to see a bigger sample size. But yeah, I've never got the sense from him that there's been any sense that he's losing control or or panic. Yeah. And that probably, I guess, comes with experience managing Rangers, being in that goldfish bowl for a long period of time. He's kind of used to this on a bigger scale. So I've always got the sense from him he's he's pretty relaxed about everything.
Speaker: Is there anything unproven in your mind, Claire, yeah looking looking after the international break at a couple of slightly, in theory, tester testier games coming up? Is there an area of the team that you think, you know, we are not we haven't been tested well in this good run? and I'm not ready to get the yellow and green bunting out and book my position for the for the promotion parade.
Speaker: What area of the team or squad would you would you point to? I mean, I guess you you'd have to say goalkeeper, but then we've had two clean sheets in a row. he made a really great save on Saturday, um made a bit of an error right at the end that Harry Darling scooped it you know out just as it was about to cross the line. But...
Speaker: cross the line but um
Speaker: Sorry, and my cat just decided to join us as well. Off you go. um but Please don't edit this out, Tom. Just leave it. No, don't edit that out I thought made some good points. She's missing out. Yeah. She's a Spurs fan. So she's, yeah.
Speaker: How can a camp be Spurs fan? Because her original owner was a Spurs fan. And when I adopted her, he said, you can do whatever you want, but don't change her football team.
Speaker: I've got two cats. I don't think either of them have got football teams, to be honest. That's because you haven't tried to change them. That's true. Maybe if you tried to sit them down in front of Spurs, they would, like, turn their back in a scurry way. Right, back to the school. Yes, yes. and Daniel Grimshaw, yes. So, yes. Well, I don't know, but then you... like Are we keeping clean sheets because Harry Darling's back in the centre of defence because Sam Field and Jacob Wright are doing such a great job of clearing up in front of the defence, whereas we weren't really doing that before.
Speaker: Until we play a better team, i don't think we're actually going to know what the level is there. Attacking-wise... got absolutely no problems there. I genuinely think we've possibly got the best attacking force in the championship, maybe, because every single player offers something completely different going forward. And we must be impossible to play against with those players going forward. But yeah, the weak the weakness is definitely centre-backs and and um goalkeeper. But I'm not...
Speaker: I'm not convinced they're not going to do well against the better teams. I think they might be OK too in those games. We'll see, won't we, coming up soon. so Do you think, Punt, there's any chance if Grimmie drops a couple of clangers against and some teams coming up, that that do you think there's any chance we go into the market for a goalie in January?
Speaker: I think you're asking the wrong person on this podcast and we've we've got someone who's quite learned who probably has a ah better view. I mean, look, I think... I think I might get a politician's answer from Conor. I was going to offer him to chip in anything later. The boy is polished, but you know like but at the same time, um I think it would be negligent not to be considering it, given the fact that...
Speaker: Look, Vladan Kovacevic at the back end of last season looked really, really good when he was being exposed to far fewer shots. I think that that would be my point. and And he did look like a decent goalkeeper at the back end of last season. So if he's getting the right protection in front of him, he might be perfectly palatable. But...
Speaker: it just strikes me as such a confidence keeper. And is that, you know, the fact that he wasn't in any kind of form ahead of him being, well, not dropped, you know, kind of he was injured and then Grimmie's just come in and and kept his place.
Speaker: But is this going to do his confidence any good? ah you know, have we got almost a lame duck here? He doesn't strike me as the kind of lad who is going to be happy, sitting on a bench. So, you know, and he might even agitate for move in January as as well, or if if not the summer, if if, you know, if Grimshaw's form and place in the team continues as is. So, yeah, I mean, I think, look, the club are pretty good at getting ahead of things. um And they proved that with with a couple of the sign-ins last January, you know, where where they they got stuff, they certainly got Ali Ahmed done really early. So I think it it must be on their mind, Connor.
Speaker: What say you? um yeah Yeah, I think, if I'm being honest, that I think they're probably quite happy with where they're at, goalkeeper-wise. That's certainly the sense I've got.
Speaker: You've got to think just, what was it? less than 18 months ago, they blew up that whole department and signed three goalkeepers. And that was done with a ah view that they were signing... Two goalkeepers and George Long, I think it was.
Speaker: And and at ah at the time, they they signed Vladankovacic because they thought he was an upgrade. They kind of got to the end of last season, I think, feeling pretty pleased at that decision in terms of the various costs in the performances. And certainly, ah again, people might not necessarily agree with it, but the shot-stopping statistics the very least had Kovacevic in the top four or five in in in the division. um So I think he he was pretty good for most of the season during that starting period where Norwich were really bad and he was being exposed to lots of shots. He was making really important saves and the points they did have largely were
Speaker: were in part because of some of the saves that he was making. Then I felt he kind of developed a little bit in the second half of the season and became a lot calmer in terms of his his way of playing. I do think he is probably two different points. I don't think he's the type of goalkeeper we necessarily associate with the championship in that He's quite eccentric and I think in, not to make it an in this country point, but I think if we think about the championship goalkeepers, i think we think about John Ruddy, Tim Krul, someone who's who's pretty consistent, someone who's solid and he is not really that. He fluctuates a lot between being, or or even in games sometimes, between being erratic to, oh, what a world, how has he just made that save? Incredible. I remember the one at Wrexham last year where had people behind me celebrating. Wrexham fans who just could not believe that that had not gone in. So that sort of thing we're not really used to, i think, and and and we're not kind of used to to goalkeepers like him as as a point. But yeah, this season his form has been alarming, I think, and there's a clear issue of his right side. He's not offered any stability in terms of what they've had from shot-stopping perspective. And I think if it, I mean, John's
Speaker: said there about the the injury and and he's right that that was what forced it but I think if we'd have continued going down the path we we would going down with him I think that change would have been made anyway so I guess then it depends on do you feel he can get back to that level do you feel Grimshaw can get to that level um And I think really only time will answer that. I think January will probably be a bit soon, if I'm honest. I think they'll probably try and let it run to the summer unless something disastrous happened from this point and Grimshaw's form dropped off a cliff and then Vlad came back in and and his form was much the same. I think then that would probably force them to to act. But I think at the moment they've got someone who's offering stability, who's making saves. um And certainly in terms of his in-possession game, I think he's getting better every week. So... I think they'll probably try and kick that can down the road, if I'm being honest, until the summer and then assess it then where, A, there's probably more options available and it's probably easier to then try and sign a first-choice goalkeeper from somewhere else in the summer um and probably where the the fees are are lesser as well, unless you could get a really good loan keeper, as maybe Coventry have done and and other examples previously. So I'm sure they'll be alive to it, but I think it's probably more likely one that they'll kick down the road for for all of those reasons.
Speaker: Do you think that there's a chance that Vlad would go on loan in January if Grimmie, basically, if we continue to win and on the games where we draw or or lose a couple between now and January, for example, then clearly not on his they're they're not on him. you know One of the defenders has shat the bed again and he didn't have a chance, etc.
Speaker: Claire, do you reckon there's a chance that Vlad goes, look, I'm a number one. I need the opportunity to do my three-finger thing. i'm yeah gra I was just thinking that he doesn't strike me as someone that is going to be happy about sitting on the bench um for too long.
Speaker: But the moment, I can't see that that is going to change. His game is going to be the FA Cup, right? Unless he does something really bad. You know, that's not what he was brought in for. It's not what he's expecting.
Speaker: um And it is tough for goalkeepers because obviously there is only one position on the pitch for them and they're not likely to get on as a substitute unless there's an injury or they're absolutely having the most horrific game ever. So it's going to be a tough ride for him. So ah I wouldn't be surprised if he maybe...
Speaker: wants to go back to Europe, to be honest. But whether that happens, I don't know. But of all the players, I feel like he's the one that's going to be least happy about sitting out on the bench for the foreseeable future.
Speaker: and i think Sorry to interrupt, but I think you've got a sort of game... game that out from ah from a Norwich perspective as well, which is, again, you're letting a goalkeeper leave in January. That's then making, you're then going to have to do something that maybe you don't want to do. So I think you'd almost try and get him just to sit it out for six more months, whether he kind of likes it or not. And then it's up to Philippe Clement to try and manage that, isn't it? But yeah, it's not an ideal situation. I'm sure he would like to play as well because he's player who's played for Sporting Lisbon and yeah exactly being in European competition. was going to say, oh
Speaker: Wasn't there something similar that happened and then he he got a loan back to, po was it Poland? Yes, correct. I mean, i you know I don't know the history behind that, but did he agitate for that move? Because you know he wasn't the number one. he was getting habit Again, I'm sure that that would have been driven by him wanting to go. but again, at Sporting, they probably had...
Speaker: Four goalkeepers and six under-21s keepers. i mean, that would leave Norwich with Dan Grimshaw and then Caleb Anson, really. So that that, I feel, would probably leave them a little bit short. So then, again, you're in a situation where you then have to go and do something in January where maybe with the new financial rules, you want to do something in another position and you're having to split your budget and it becomes, I think, a bit different. which is why I think they'll probably try and kick that can to the summer if they possibly can. But like you say, if it becomes problematic and he starts refusing to play, then their hand could be forced. So um that's why I think it's probably still a little bit up in the air, if I'm honest.
Speaker: They've already highlighted a new goalkeeper to come in, I guess, and then we would want to ship him out anyway. so yeah what What about you, Punt? do you yeah Outside the goalie, is there is another area that you think we're not quite 100% settled yet?
Speaker: Maybe just another goalie? I mean, yeah, I struggle with centre-back because I still feel like, you know, look, we've seen it with other players, Paris Magoma, kind of chief among them really this season, that we knew there was a player in there. He wasn't sharing his best form for whatever reason.
Speaker: you know, he couldn't unlock it. And then suddenly it just clicks. It felt to me like the same thing happened with Jose Cordoba last season. you know, but genuinely from when Clement took over and put those two together, I don't think I saw as good a championship centre-back pairing for you know the entirety of last season. I thought they were excellent together and Cordova had really got to a point where he was just beast in strikers. It didn't matter whether they tried to outpace him, outmuscle him, you know outskill him. like
Speaker: He felt so assured. So as much as I absolutely see based on current form, you know and and and Harry Darling is a workhorse, but I think you know kind of has his his technical deficiencies as well.
Speaker: So I think we could go into the market for a centre-back because you know who knows if Bruno Alves is ever going to be ready you know kind of for this level or whether he's the kind of physical player that you know whether he's got the physical attributes to play in the championship. So yeah, centre-back would be the one question mark I'd have.
Speaker: I don't know. There's something still in my heart that just thinks, oh, Jose could come back and isn't he brilliant and isn't he great on the ball? And the fact that you've got a left-footed centre-back changes the dynamic of of how you play at times. um ah I don't know. it it feels to me like Clement's really put his arm around Magoma last couple of months.
Speaker: Could he do that again with Jose? And then could he become the player that that we know that he is again? Yeah. Yeah, so ah I don't know. Are you killing Cordoba if you go and sign another centre-back? That would be my only worry. But it is probably the area of the pitch where you'd look out most.
Speaker: I think that that we've seen fragility in that position and we've seen chances that lead to goals. And similar, like you saying, Claire, about we try tough being a goalie, you if you make a mistake as a goalie, it is nearly always a goal. Likewise, if you're a centre-back and you just let your player have loads of time in the box and then don't close them down and let them get a shot off from eight yards, they probably will score as well.
Speaker: So... it ah We did see during Clement's really positive run that he was bringing on centre-backs with sort of 30 minutes to go like he He was rotating not rotating in terms of often having different starters, but we were seeing centre-backs coming on and playing big chunks of games. So I do think that is one area where you could easily keep those guys happy.
Speaker: and by giving them enough enough minutes because heat Clement does seem to not really be concerned about um you know disrupting the back line. Obviously, there was the famous one where he made a subject for a corner, didn't he? which we then immediately excluded from because because the the substitute didn't pick up that, which I think was Cordova.
Speaker: um not that I remember that. I think it was. Obviously, i know we we all know I know it was. It just seemed a bit harsh to bring that up. Talking about Cordova, I'd be positive. But yeah, Conor, when you're looking across the the squad at the moment, I'd be interested in, if you go back over the the seasons that we've got,
Speaker: and we were talking about ah the the strength of the squad ah in pre-season you know reviews and at the start of the season. I do think now we're back on form, you've got to go back quite a long way to when Norwich genuinely had this many potential starters who you feel you wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if their name was on the on on the team sheet. like I think we are going back to the last championship winning campaign.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I'd i'd agree. Certainly off the top of my head. And this this is where it sort of feeds into the the January conversation. It becomes difficult because, ah well, twofold is the quality, isn't it? But it's also the size of the squad. Like that's ah that's a pretty big squad. um I think, you know, even even if i I sort of think, well, you know, could they do another wide option? But then you go, well, you've got Ali Ahmed still there. And even though he's injured, he's going to come back at some point. So you can't just sign an another winger. And it becomes, i think, pretty, pretty complicated. So yeah, the the the issues they've got is we with the size of the squad and with the quality of it, because you look at some of the players who aren't even making match day squads now. i mean it wasn't so long ago that Sam Field wasn't getting in match day 20s and and Bruno Alves has been mentioned, he hasn't really got a kick anywhere near it. So you've got to, I think, then in but in a very difficult market anyway, know everyone says that, but where prices are steeper and teams are probably less willing. So you have to make sure any moves you do make are adding to the squad. I think if they did go in and They did try and add it purely on what Clement has said over the last few months. I think they'd want probably a slightly different age profile of player. A bit someone, not necessarily who's Kenny McLean's age, but someone maybe who's a bit closer to Kenny McLean than than the rest of the squad they have it um at the moment. And that's been a really interesting kind of facet of the last few weeks. i mean, you mentioned Harry Darling.
Speaker: who's not old, but has kind of been put into that kind of crackery of experience. Jack Stacey, I think, is not many people speaking about him, but i think he's having a really good season as well. um That's because John doesn't like him. Yeah, John doesn't like him. And look, I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but if you'd have said at the start of the season...
Speaker: ah Norwich would be in a situation in November where Vladan Kovacevic, Kellan Fisher, Pella Mattson, Kenny McLean all weren't playing and they'd have won four in a row. i think um yeah I think maybe you'd be getting sent somewhere to to for someone to have a look at you. But but that it's that that's where they are and it's about players taking opportunities as well. So I think John wants to interrupt with something on Stacey.
Speaker: No, no, no. I pressed the wrong button. no ah My issue with Jack Stacey is he can't like he couldn't really cross and he has got better on that. And actually a lot of his crosses have have led not necessarily directly to goals, but you know' it's been a decent cross which has been nodded down or something along those lines. But also his defensive work, I just felt like...
Speaker: It's been lot better though this year. Yeah, this is, well, I would say last few games, I would say towards the start of the season. I think over the, he's a bit, and I also think he's a bit less road runner now. It was every time Norwich got the ball. i agree with that. bo And he was gone. and I think now it is a bit more intelligent. It is a bit more, he's making those runs at the right time. And that's good coaching, right? I mean, we talk about kind of developing younger players, but. I think think with him in particular, there's been real strides. And I mean, to be keeping yeah i mean that no all of the other stuff around that, but to be keeping Callum Fisher out of the team is, um yeah, absolutely it's not a lean feat. So, fair play to him. And Philippe is getting what he wants from a shape point of view. So, they're analysing videos, they're analysing, you know, positions, starting positions, duels. And, you know, incredibly data-driven approach.
Speaker: And he clearly must be, from a data points point of view, he must be giving Philippe what he wants because Clement does have another option. can play Mojoba there, Mojoba can play anywhere, maybe maybe be in goal in January. and But I think with Stacey, i you you are down on him in the same way that you are quick to be down on Darling.
Speaker: and And I think this year what Stacey has shown is he has got the right, he has got that that that extra 50-odd games of championship experience that, and like Connor says, when when it's ah when it's less roadrunnery, mean, I thought in in the Derby game him and Brooks played like they'd actually met for that. That's been a duo. we've patched it up.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah i mean, that that's been a duo that that does seem, you know, we have actually had joy down both flanks because they've they've actually managed to move in a complementary fashion. And maybe some of that is that Stacey isn't just bombing on at the first sense of us having the ball. And and and maybe, you know, again, from a coaching point of view, that's something we've we've picked up and and and we've improved upon.
Speaker: um Right, it would be remiss of us to not um touch on the the biggest football story of of the week, which is, of course, Timo Pukki having his final barrel. So I thought we should all, you know, we have just quick briefly alluded on a championship winning squad. and But yeah, I thought we could all just ah share a few thoughts as as any excuse to talk about Taimou. So, Claire, did you like him or did you think he was a bit shit?
Speaker: Surely there's not a Norwich fan in the world that say that he was shooting. Because there's people like Punt who just picked someone they hated. That's the end of that. So there'll be someone who says, oh, I never thought he was worth it.
Speaker: Wow, he was free. I never thought he was worth the free transfer. He was free. He is the best free transfer ever, isn't he? That's true. That's true. I think my my abiding memory of him will be that Millwall game. Yeah.
Speaker: I can't even remember what goal he scored. Did he score the winner? Yeah. Yeah. That's why I can remember Not it in his cleanest strike. No, but it was just the start of everything, that that game, wasn't it? And yeah, what a player.
Speaker: Just so humble and just such a ah nice, fabulous professional, lovely family. Just, Yeah. You'd want to sign a whole team of Timu Pukis, really. Well, no, that would be a disaster, actually. But yeah, you're not a guy. i mean And the the only player I've actually really thought is going to really, really enjoy his retirement. He's back home in Finland.
Speaker: with his family. Go have a great life, Timu. You deserve it. Well, surely he's going to have some offers to get back in involved at at the club at some point. like you you would you you know He'd be such a good ambassador, even if he only did it sometimes. you know You feel like there'd be events that they'd want to get him involved in. And if we ever are in a bit of a striking situation,
Speaker: kind of lean spell, he could come and do a bit of coaching up Carney, couldn't he, John? I mean, you'd love to think so, but he just comes across as such a what a really humble, softly spoken, just not that kind of guy. When you look at that, you know, that club, that clutch of like kind of club ambassadors, they're all quite gregarious, kind of maybe a little bit lads, lads, lads, because, you know, they're playing to to that that crew who might buy, you know, kind of um corporate...
Speaker: seating So ah ah i I think a bit like Claire, I'd just be like, just enjoy your life. He looks so happy. but I mean, and apart from when he quits a football club and then he cries quite a lot. But but I mean, I think for me, like actually he just epitomised, him and Emi epitomised everything that Norwich were trying to do under Farker. And there was, it i've I've said about ah about this match on the podcast before, he's,
Speaker: When he got that hat trick in the Premier League and I went, I mean, look, it was one of those Saturdays where I'll just i'll just scour the internet for any old YouTube video that might have been summarising the game.
Speaker: And there was a Newcastle fan basically saying that Norwich were everything that they should be aspiring to and we were a ridiculously well-run football club. I was like, oh, it just just just makes your heart beam a little bit, you know, that your football club is being held up as one of those. And all right, now it's going to be like a Brighton or a Brentford or a whoever.
Speaker: But it was Norwich for a fleeting moment, um you know, and... and team who was such a big part of of all of that. um A wonderful striker. ah'm I'm really sad in a lot of ways that, I don't know, we couldn't just get another season out of him or another six months and he could get to 100 goals. But it just wasn't to be. The emergence of Josh um just meant, you know, and and and maybe a drop-off in his form. And the fact that we had a manager who didn't necessarily play to his strengths, you know, all of those things kind of contrived so that his ending wasn't as it should have been.
Speaker: But yeah. Well, Connor was talking about, Connor was talking about Jovan getting goals at Borough, a team who'd score in this team. may Imagine, because Magoma can play the steepy style ball around the corner. There was a nice one of them. to What was the last for the home game before Derby? So two, two we've won so many wins. Watford. One of the balls that Magoma, the assist to the assist. and that he we've got, you know, Slimani when he's on form. That's another one. He's another person who looked like he might be a a player of the season candidate for a month, about three months ago. And and he he's sort of you know, completely gone out of the picture. um Yeah, I think he'd score loads of goals. Connor, in terms of the in terms of the the stature at the club, it's he was one of those who, from...
Speaker: Such humble beginnings in that, you know, when he was signed, there was no fanfare. There was a bit of talk I remember about he he wasn't very fit when he turned up, like he came last in the bleak test in that first preseason and everything.
Speaker: it Just what a joy to be able to to kind of watch and cover a career like that at a football club. Yeah, and going back to his announcement, I think it was announced at the time where Norwich were being heavily linked with Ben Marshall.
Speaker: And ah as football clubs do now, it was being teased. And I think the expectation was it was going to be a Ben Marshall announcement. And then it was Temapuki. And I think it was a bit like, what, who, where has this come from? And then it was all the Celtic fans who um said he's terrible who were trying to kind of push their view of things on it. um So it was an understated arrival and and it was he was almost in many ways in the job I do, he was almost frustratingly humble.
Speaker: um I remember um after he came away at Blackburn in in kind of the COVID non-football nonsense and that was the point where he just scored his 50th goal and that was one of the away games that that I was on that season. um and going down to speak to him. And it was, someone said to me when I got this job, if you're ever interviewing a striker in particular and you're a little bit stuck of where to go and they've just scored a goal, just ask them about the goal because like look they'll always want to talk about it and they'll talk about it forever.
Speaker: He didn't really. was trying to say to him, 50 goals at the club, what an achievement that is. And was a bit like, oh yeah, but you know, we won and wasn't this player great? It's like, come on, tell me when there's a few instances like that where you're just trying to get him to big himself up a bit. And he just wasn't like that. In many ways, he was kind of quite an apologetic striker, really, and completely without ego. And was fortunate enough to speak to him a few months ago. And I know that his spell in England, I think, and Norwich in particular, is still one that he, and why wouldn't he hold in such high regard? I mean, it's the best spell of his career. And he's played for some unbelievable clubs and Being in unbelievable countries. And yeah, like you, Claire, got the sense and think he might even say, can't remember if he said it on camera or off camera, but he was a bit like, I'm looking forward to just disappearing. And I think we all wish him well as he disappears into the, don't know if there are mountains in Finland, but as he disappears into the Finnish countryside, mountains, wherever, and enjoys the rest of his life. And yeah, who knows? Hopefully we'll see him pop up at some point.
Speaker: Yeah, i just he's one of those that I don't feel he got the send-off. He feels like he should have had the momentous testimonial style occasion. What do you mean? We spent five grand on a big banner that went in the Barclay, mate. He did get a send-off. Lots of players don't.
Speaker: Yeah, I know. Everyone had left though, hadn't they? Was it 3-0 to think Blackpool? Yeah, I don't know. It was just not... It was a funny time. would have liked... Yeah. Because he sort of was in between... He was trying so hard to score that day as well. Oh, yeah. Now I'm sad.
Speaker: but i don't Don't be sad. be be happy about just the sheer number of incredible goals and and just the the bundle over the line. and just Never has someone been so calm in front of goal. Never has someone scored so many goals without hitting it very hard. He didn't rasp them into the net. He wasn't a thunder bastard, take the roof off. Occasionally he was. Yeah, but that wasn't really his style. He would stroke it into the corner if that was an option because almost like, don't want to upset the groundsman by knocking a peg out of the ground. Is he the best finisher Norwich you've had? Obviously, I'm up to a certain point in history. I'm sure there's maybe some beyond that, but
Speaker: Yeah, punt, you go back to what, it's the 30s, isn't it Yes, very good, very good. um I always remember Robert Fleck as being a superb finisher, but he was more of like a a poacher and... i don't Got to bring Mer into the conversation, haven't you?
Speaker: yes fine Yeah, that's fair, yeah. Your lucky striker. Oh, it's another one, John Levy. Yeah, he's just so bloody lucky, so bloody lucky. Yeah. When he goes for 15 million, we're going to have to clip some of your expressions of distaste at how lucky he is.
Speaker: i You say it like lucky isn't a really brilliant quality to have, but it is. Like 100% is. ah well i I've certainly got sp got it in spades im umm and I'm grateful for it. and Yeah, I think greatest finisher, he he certainly had the knack of right place, right time, which we've had a few players like that. i mean, I actually think...
Speaker: and Technically, nowhere near as good, but that is a knack that Ewan had. So Ewan would arrive and he would, a lot of Ewan's goals were, Ewan's there and he knocks it in. you know And he you know he wasn't, by his own admission, he was not you know messy, but he would be in the right place at the right time.
Speaker: um i mean, Emi's pretty good. Holti. There's not many aspects. Yeah, Holti was a proof proven finisher. I just think the variety of things. Yeah, Tim is in the conversation. Top corner, bottom corner.
Speaker: Yeah. Not many with his head. No, no, not really. There was one at Stoke, wasn't there? Holt, he did lots. one yeah One, yeah. I think he ran away laughing when he scored. Yeah, rubbing his head.
Speaker: Yeah, grant grant holt is Grant Holt might be might be one because he he did score some technically very, very nice goals. He always looked awkward when he was doing something technically good, um but put it put it came off OK. Right, we need to do some some guarantees.
Speaker: and So we've got an international break coming up. And then Punt has said that we've got some really difficult fixtures coming really difficult, just slightly slightly more testing.
Speaker: Well, I think app atmosphere-wise, i think I get the quality of opposition, but in terms of some of the teams we have been up against and the pressure on them, the pressure in the atmosphere for them to get, Charlton will have been sent out there with a tub-thumping speech. you know Bristol City have been under pressure and And, you know, they were there. They were low and mid table, but it's not like they were in the bottom three when went there when we went there. And we managed to turn that into a little bit of frustration into the first lot of ah calling for change. Right.
Speaker: You know, there there really has been a procession now of people going from Eustace is safe until at least after the pandemic. ah transfer ah international window, along come Norwich, all of a sudden Eustace needs to be sacked that night. you know So i do think it is a young group, as Conor just said, and I think going into some of the higher up in the league ah going against some of the higher up in the league teams, they have been in some interesting scenarios recently in terms of like pressure. i mean, our next game is, is against the team below us and that's who we're going to do the, that's who we're going to do the guarantees for. So Saturday the 21st of November, it's yet another lunchtime kickoff. I feel like we only ever play at lunchtime. You must be getting home quite early at the moment, Connor, compared to normal.
Speaker: Yeah, great. I quite enjoy it, to be honest. ah so we're at home in our living room against Cardiff City. Claire, I'd like a guarantee, please. Well, we're obviously going to score three or more goals because... That's what happens now. Well, be you're right, 50% of the time at least there. so um But then Cardiff, you know, they've had some crazy results in the last few games themselves. Were they 3-0 down or something? 4-1, yeah. Yeah, or whatever. i Yeah, crazy. So I'll go, it's going to be, we're not going to keep a clean sheet. It's going to be 4-2 to Norwich.
Speaker: And ah Paris will clearly score, obviously, another twinkly-toed goal. And then Jove's going to come on and score a hat-trick.
Speaker: There you go. love a hat-trick guarantee. Yeah. Okay, punt. ah Jovan and Matthias are going to start a game together.
Speaker: Ooh. Ooh. Ooh-hoo-hoo. um Which might mean Magoma needs to be accommodated elsewhere in the team. i'm not I haven't really thought this through. um
Speaker: Goalkeeper? ah Well, no, I was going to just chuck in a wild card. it wouldn't shock me if actually Vlad comes back. No. national break It genuinely would not shock me but if he came back after the international break. Poor Grimmy.
Speaker: i know. i know. um So, yeah, that's all i'm not goodnna I'm not going to get into scorelines. I'm just going to say... That's what's going to happen. ah i Yeah, I can see it in in as much as...
Speaker: Vlad was signed to be number one. Grimmie was signed to be a backup. And maybe Phil it says, lads, we're going to rotate you two a bit. We're actually going to give you different games. each Kenny's going to play because he's like number one midfielder, best boy. Kenny will come in for Sam Field, i think.
Speaker: Yeah. So you know under that same logic, there is a case to be made. Not that I would want to make it, but that Vlad might start. do Do you think it's going to be Kenny and Wright then?
Speaker: Because the idea of not having Mattson when he's available is just mass mad. It's mad, yeah. But Wright, I thought, against um Bristol City, it was phenomenal. I think his best performance of the season, he really just grabbed it by the scruff of the neck and drove ah at times like just drove Norwich forward or like got them on the ball or showed a bit of composure. i mean...
Speaker: you know he He has matured in front of our eyes during you know the last probably five to ten games. like it just yeah He's becoming a a very, very good player. and and you know i I would say you have to start him ahead of Mattson right now. I don't think there's any argument to be made for for Mattson coming straight back in.
Speaker: ah talk Talk about um good transfer business for Mr. Knapper. That could look like an absolute steal. i mean If he continues, even if he doesn't get any better than this,
Speaker: If you're to me, if he is just a very good championship controlling quarterback style, Kenny Light or whatever, a really solid eight, what a bargain considering how many years we've got ahead of us of him before he's even reached his prime. Okay, so Connor, guarantee please.
Speaker: ah Yeah, i mean, probably a bit similar to Claire, but i I was just going to go goals for this Cardiff game. i mean, it could be 7-7, to be honest. I think if if you look at the scorelines they've had, but also they they rank in the top three for shots, touches in the opposition box. But I think it seemingly looks like they don't do much defending, um which...
Speaker: To be fair, recently, obviously, two clean sheets that Norwich have been a bit better at, but Norwich also quite enjoy being quite open. So, um yeah, I'll say there'll be a minimum of five goals and you can sort of decide what share of of the goals that's going to be. But I think it's... Probably setting that up for a 0-0 now. but Yeah, I was going to say 0-0 to be incoming.
Speaker: they've They've only won four games. I mean, to get to what's going to be late November and you've only won four games. mean, that is... We beat them in the cup, didn't we? Earlier in the season. I thought they looked quite good, though, that evening. I thought we were lucky to get away with it at the end.
Speaker: Yeah. um So... Okay, so you're going 3-2 one way or the other. Oh, no, 4-1 maybe because that's still 5-0. Or 5-0. Oh, yeah. He's been sneaky there, hasn't he? He's got all sorts of... It's cheating, really, if you are. i mean, John didn't even give a score. He didn't ask for a score. He asked for guarantees, I think. that's Yeah, it's guarantees. and my My guarantees are is that we will be in the top nine by bedtime.
Speaker: on the 21st of November. So that's my guarantee. so We go up we go up by two or three go up two or three places and because we're going to win against Cardiff because I think that following that mad result they just had and all the goals, they're due a couple of nil-nils. Sorry, a couple of like got goals where they games where they don't score.
Speaker: And therefore I'm going to go, oh, let's use some logic and some science. 4-0. And ah whose turn is it to score this time? I think that it's going to be Stacey and Pump will celebrate in spite of himself. um And then a brace for Magoma. And then we have to do a podcast talking about the fact we're worried that he goes in January.
Speaker: So a few guarantees and a few suggestions. But anyway, Conor, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for your time. Claire, your opinions are always so valid and welcome.
Speaker: Punt, that's a lovely zip up that you're wearing. Everyone else, enjoy the international break. Think kindly back to art wonderful time with Timu. and And yeah, look forward to being in the top nine in a couple weeks time. Mind how you go.
