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Navigating Dentistry's Challenges: From Financial Struggles to Patient Misunderstandings
22 Plays22 days ago
About the Hosts:
Dr. Savanah Craig is a general dentist who is passionate about dental health and educating patients on their oral care. She has been making strides in the dental community with her dynamic approach to practice and dedication to evolving her methods. Dr. Craig brings a fresh perspective on dentistry and its complex challenges, particularly for new dental graduates navigating the professional landscape.
Dr. Ronnetta Sartor is also a practicing general dentist with a keen interest in the multifaceted nature of dental care. Her experience as both an associate and a practice owner equips her with a unique understanding of the financial and clinical aspects of dentistry. Dr. Sartor advocates for innovations in dental practices, including patient education and preventive care, ensuring that both patient and practice thrive.
Episode Summary:
Join Dr. Savanah Craig and Dr. Ronnetta Sartor in this enlightening episode of "Beyond Graduation," where they delve into the perplexing world of dentistry post-education. They discuss the unexpected complexities in dental career paths, from the variety of ways dentists can practice to the financial nuances that contradict many public perceptions. As recent graduates find their way in the profession, the duo explores the varying paths within dentistry and the skills necessary to succeed beyond the classroom.
The conversation highlights the misconceptions about dentists' roles and compensation structures, illustrating how the dynamics between production, collections, and patient care create a unique professional environment. With candid discussions about financial realities, such as student loans and practice ownership challenges, the episode offers insightful advice for budding dentists. Through relatable analogies and personal anecdotes, Dr. Craig and Dr. Sartor illustrate the importance of communication, preventive care, and understanding the broader impacts of oral health on the body.
Key Takeaways:
- Dentistry offers a myriad of career paths and practice methods, each with unique challenges.
- Misconceptions exist about the dentist's role and their financial stability due to evolving reimbursement models and student debt.
- Financial compensation in dentistry hinges on complex factors like production, collections, and insurance intricacies.
- Preventive care is crucial, as it aligns dental health with overall health and can mitigate costly emergencies.
- Effective patient communication is essential for successful treatment planning and health outcomes.
Connect with Us:
- Savanah Craig, DDS: @savanahcraigdds
- Ronnetta Sartor, DMD: @dr_sartor
- FutureDentists Beyond Graduation: @futuredentistsbeyondgraduation
- FutureDentists: @futuredentists
- IgniteDDS: @ignitedds and @ignitedds_coaching
- A-dec: @adecdental and https://www.a-dec.com/find-a-dealer
Dive deeper into the world of post-graduate dentistry by tuning into this episode where Dr. Craig and Dr. Sartor share invaluable insights for recent graduates. Stay tuned for more engaging discussions and expert advice on the evolving landscape of dental careers.
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Transcript
Introduction to ADEC's Offerings
00:00:00
Speaker
ADEC's Smart Start program offers first-time practice owners their deepest discounts on equipment and furniture for two years, plus other savings and complimentary services. Ask your ADEC rep for details and start smart with ADEC.
Meet the Hosts: Drs. Craig and Sartor
00:00:13
Speaker
Join Drs. Savannah Craig and Renetta Sartor as we navigate life beyond graduation. Real conversations about forging our own paths in our early years in our careers.
00:00:24
Speaker
There's a reason it's called practicing dentistry. All right, welcome back to another episode of Beyond Graduation. i'm Savannah Craig, and with me as always... I'm Renetta Sartor.
Misconceptions About Dentistry
00:00:35
Speaker
All right, Renetta, is dentistry the weirdest career? i would have to say it's pretty darn weird. It's pretty weird. I think I've been thinking about this for a long time because i feel like people know dentists and have been to the dentist, but even still, they have no idea what we're doing.
00:00:57
Speaker
Like, You know, like, oh, I've had a feeling or people who have never had any restorative dental work. They just think we pop in every, you know, for five seconds.
00:01:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Or that I've had a lot of people just like, oh, you're dentist. You clean teeth. Yes. Yes. For a living. So like some people have no idea like that a hygienist is the ones that.
00:01:19
Speaker
Well, I think to to be fair, I think there are some dentists that don't have hygienists and clean teeth. So I think we just confuse patients yeah all over. We do this to ourselves, I think, because you can do dentistry so many different ways.
00:01:38
Speaker
This is true. So yeah my practice is different than your practice, but we both... are general dentists. It's very true. But yeah, I think it gets confusing too, because I think both of us are kind of trained to do a lot of things that just general dentists don't do.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yes, that's the other piece of like, there are specialists, but also you can do specialty procedures, but not all of them, but some of them.
Evolution of Dentistry
00:02:07
Speaker
And teeth themselves are an enigma of like, my tooth hurt for a while and then it stopped hurting. So it must must be better. And you're like, actually, it's worse. Yes. Where's so the drums? Yes.
00:02:21
Speaker
Yes. Like that means it's actually dead. Okay. So how do you like think back to dental school? Did you know what you were getting into? oh my gosh.
00:02:34
Speaker
Literally. Yeah. Literally. Probably two days ago, I was having a conversation with my my classmate from dental school, actually, and were talking about how...
00:02:47
Speaker
It seems like in some some aspects we were sold a dream in dental school. Correct. About what dentistry is and was. And could be.
00:02:58
Speaker
And could be, right? I think one thing that I 100% agree with is that we're in a great profession. It's a great profession for so many different reasons. Like we get to help people. We get to help people like from a health wise, but from a confidence wise as well. Yeah.
00:03:13
Speaker
And then aesthetic wise, I think what I was getting at with my my friend was that it's so many nuances to dentistry.
Financial Challenges for Dentists
00:03:23
Speaker
Like I think that day I saw on social media, dentist went viral because she said, I'm a dentist and I'm broke.
00:03:31
Speaker
I live paycheck to paycheck. yeah And the internet was like going crazy because they're like, how can this be? you know But I think too, like a lot of our professors in dental school,
00:03:43
Speaker
the denist the the profession of dentistry that they inherited is completely different than what we have inherited. yeah Like student loans, you know, a lot of them pretty much got a loan from the bank and, you know, pay pay that off or they were able to work and, you know, left without any like like loans at all. Yeah.
00:04:06
Speaker
The debt to income ratio was vastly different in whatever 70s. Right. And so like now a lot of dentists need things like income driven repayment in order to be able to afford to pay their student loans and a lifestyle. so What's your take on it?
00:04:24
Speaker
No, i I totally agree with you. i think we've talked before of like, the reason I was attracted to dentistry is it seemed very like a plus B equals There's a cavity, drill it out, put a filling in, you're good to go. And it's not that at all.
00:04:42
Speaker
I think that's what makes it such a great profession though. Like, big because it's constantly evolving, right? Yes. You know, like I know in school they kind of talked about the evolution of it and how it was like you have a problem, you fix it.
00:04:56
Speaker
And then it went from before you have a problem, like with Carrie's risk assessments and that sort of thing. Let's try to be more on a preventive preventative side of it so that we can prevent problems. Because once you have a problem, eventually at some point, because we're not God and we're not like replacing like with a brand new tooth.
00:05:19
Speaker
you know, that you naturally had, at some point, you'll have to have something redone or something like that. And I do think that dentistry has evolved to start including more of the health problems and how that impacts the mouth and overall body.
Dentists' Income Versus Perceived Wealth
00:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think we we should definitely circle back to Dentistry and the overall body and how that also makes dentistry the weirdest career, because for some reason we've separated it from the body.
00:05:52
Speaker
But i think talking about the viral video of like dentists aren't as financially, not not all dentists, not all people are not as financially wealthy as people assume we are.
00:06:09
Speaker
Let's talk about how are dentists paid because I think this was the most shocking discovery to me. don't, I wanna like, I honestly don't know if I realized truly production collections and like percentage of that until I was like looking at job contracts.
00:06:28
Speaker
I agree. like I had heard those words. But I don't or like daily guarantees, daily minimums. Like, let's just get into it, because I think when I talk to my friends who are not in the dental field, they are shocked at actually how we make money.
00:06:45
Speaker
And also, it's going to be different how you make money as a practice owner versus how I make money as an associate. Very true. So I guess let's start because you threw out a lot of those terms. So it's fresh in your mind. Let's let's talk about it.
00:07:00
Speaker
All right. So production at the most basic level is the yeah amount of money your office says a procedure should cost.
00:07:13
Speaker
Do you think that's the most reasonable way to say that? Right. So for an example... For today, if you add all the procedures you did and it equals, for example, $10,000, that's what was produced that day.
00:07:26
Speaker
Yes. So crown equals $1,500. One filling equals $200. Whatever. perfect world, you would paid...
00:07:34
Speaker
whatever in a perfect world you would get paid on those fees that your office says a crown costs us in electricity, labor, lab fees.
00:07:50
Speaker
We have, to because it's a business, don't forget it's a business. We have to charge a patient $1,500 for a crown, just like I paid $10 for this coffee mug because costs these people money to make this coffee mug.
00:08:06
Speaker
However, depending on your business model, collections are what you actually get paid for that procedure. Do you think that sums it up? Yes.
00:08:17
Speaker
So what that would mean is, for example, if on this day, the crown is $1,500.
Payment Collection Issues
00:08:25
Speaker
If you are in network with an insurance company, and the crown costs only $900, then pretty much give or take you may or may not like if Your patient's paying, give or take that, that you won't collect that whole thing, if that makes sense. Yes. On that day, because you have to submit it to insurance and then wait on their payment.
00:08:50
Speaker
All you may collect that day, for example, is maybe $400, which was the patient's portion for that specific procedure. Yeah. So most offices and then, I mean, adjusted production. We're not going down that rabbit hole because those are made up.
00:09:08
Speaker
Anyway, so I am paid a percentage of collections because as a business that my boss is running, he cannot pay me a percentage of an imaginary number.
00:09:21
Speaker
And see what? as and When I was an associate, it was the opposite. I was paid on production. Ooh, okay. So I was paid on production, but I agree now being a business owner. Ooh, it's changed. Yeah, it's really difficult you know to pay someone on something that you may or may not have collected.
00:09:47
Speaker
So it becomes a situation where your team And communication has to be excellent. Like communicating with the patient that this is due on this day, communicating with insurance companies to submit the claim, actually making sure that insurance pays that claim. in Writing narratives if they don't want to pay that claim.
00:10:09
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And so I think and so ideally your collection and production eventually should be 100 percent like for the year in ah in a perfect world.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's not because patients may get sent to a collection company because they're not paying their bills on time. Insurance might deny a claim and then you have to write it off. There are a lot of ways that the money doesn't line up.
00:10:36
Speaker
You told a good st story story earlier. you You were talking about like a family member that is a mechanic. Yes. And the similarities between the two, which I thought was a pretty interesting correlation.
Dentistry Versus Car Repair: A Comparison
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:50
Speaker
So my husband's cousin is a mechanic and at like all family functions, you know, you end up like breaking off whatever and Over time, like we bond because it's very similar. The experiences that he has with customers and that I have with patients of like people are either coming to you for preventive maintenance.
00:11:15
Speaker
Ideally, you know, oil changes, the wiper fluid. I'm not a car girl. I don't know what what things your car's car needs, but it needs regular things. Tires, change, rotation.
00:11:27
Speaker
Yes. But if you don't go for your regular maintenance, then things break and then you have problems. And it's not the mechanic's fault that you didn't go get your oil changed, just like it's not necessarily my fault you didn't come for your regular cleanings.
00:11:45
Speaker
But so it's become very similar or he will talk about like People know there are problems and then he diagnoses the problem, but they don't want to pay for the solution and get mad that it costs money.
00:12:01
Speaker
And he's like, okay, I have to keep my shop open. I have to pay my employees. I have to buy the... oil and the oil filters and I can't like it's not a one to one you know if if I bought the oil filters for how much are oil filters I don't know the whole thing $50 I don't know yeah don't come for me mechanics you know if he has to pay $50 for the supplies to do the thing He can't charge you $50 because then he's breaking even and that's not how businesses work.
00:12:33
Speaker
And that's also very like, okay, dentistry is the same thing. People just come because they have this problem. Or sometimes you don't know your car has a problem. I don't know what noises my car is supposed to make or not supposed to make. That's true.
00:12:48
Speaker
And that's why I go to an expert, a mechanic. to tell me if everything is good. And people come to the dentist not knowing they have problems. And then we have to tell them, hey, you have a problem.
00:13:00
Speaker
And they don't like that because they're like, I thought everything was fine. This doesn't hurt or or it did hurt and now it doesn't hurt anymore. And you're like, well, it doesn't hurt anymore because it's so infected. Your tooth has died. And now we either have to do a root canal or and extraction.
00:13:16
Speaker
And this friend of mine who's a mechanic will say, you know, there are times where people are like, my car made this noise and then it stopped making this noise. And so I didn't bring it in. But it's actually not good that it stopped making the noise or you know, like. Right.
00:13:30
Speaker
And so we just we really vibe about it. And it's it's always funny at family functions because there are like doctors and nurses in the family and everybody thinks like they get what I go through, but it's they don't. And so like we'll start talking and everyone's like, your jobs are so weird. And um and um then the other thing we'll always get into is like Google reviews.
Struggles of New Dentists
00:13:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. People aren't Google reviewing usually like the their anesthesiologist at the hospital. you know and That's a great point. But also kind of to your point, you know if a patient goes because they were having heart complications or something like that, and they say, hey, you have a blockage, you need surgery, that's automatic.
00:14:16
Speaker
Now, in- Very few cases will someone die from, you know, anything dental related. There are cases where people have for sure.
00:14:26
Speaker
But if we say, hey your tooth is abscessed, it's not met with the same urgency as a lot of other medical conditions is. Because like you said, it's like, well, it's not hurting now. So i don't want to do anything until it's hurting.
00:14:39
Speaker
So it'll be it'll be great to for like as a profession, us to create the same type of urgency that I think medicine does in getting patients to move forward with treatment.
00:14:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I don't know. i feel like in some ways it's like normalized sometimes, like tooth pain and tooth problems. And again, that could be a whole other conversation. but like and I don't know that I truly on a logical level knew how bad dental infections could be until I did a residency too.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah, because then you see the cases where people are in the hospital on IV antibiotics for this infection And we have to take them to to the OR because if not, they may not survive or, you know, because we work very closely with the heart hospital.
00:15:32
Speaker
There's a patient that needs an LVAD. And before doing it, we need to get all these bad teeth out so that the teeth don't infect the newly placed, you know, things in the heart.
00:15:42
Speaker
It's all connected. I know, but it's really tough too because like when you say certain stuff like that to cert some cause I have a lot of older patients and a lot of them do have heart issues. or and so if I find anything like that, I'm like, listen, you've got all these things going on with your heart. You do not want this tooth cause anything to go wrong with that or any in any other part of your body like we need to get it taken care of totally totally and it's an uphill battle because even we have separated dentistry and medicine so much and there are times where like our medical colleagues don't
00:16:21
Speaker
understand the severity and like how dental health impacts the rest of the body. And it's not their fault. They don't have a lot of lectures. One of my my best friends is a physician and we were in med school and dental school at similar times. And the amount of like full body anatomy, physiology, pathology that we took compared to dental specific lectures that they got over like two hours their entire four years is baffling to me that's a that's a podcast for another time oh yeah okay circle back with me to why some dentists are living paycheck to paycheck and can't pay their loans and how that could even be possible aren't we all buying boats and yachts yeah yachts are boats mercedes and yachts and beach houses yeah it's tough
00:17:14
Speaker
I think there is a population of dentists out there that are, but I think a lot of us baby dentists, you know, less than 10 years out, we're trying to figure it out how to put all of the pieces together. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
I mean, part of it is insurance reimbursements. Part of it is student loans. Part of it is we, a lot of us don't have consistent paychecks because of this production collections thing. And I mean, for you, right? Like you're partially the owner, partially the employee. So like how much goes into the business? How much goes into your pocket? There's so many ways to do this.
00:17:56
Speaker
And as a practice owner, you have a team that depend on you and a practice in and you want to make sure that them and their family eats. But also at the same time, to your point about your cousin, that's a mechanic.
00:18:09
Speaker
I have to make sure that me and my family eat too, but also that the practice has everything that it needs to run. And yes, it's interesting for sure.
00:18:19
Speaker
We wear many hats. For sure. And nobody nobody knows about most of them. Well, guys, we are super interested in hearing how dentistry is weird.
00:18:30
Speaker
and some correlations of dentistry to other professions if you have them. So reach out to us and let us know. um We'd love to hear from you. We'll catch you back next time. you for joining us for this episode of Beyond Graduation. If you enjoyed this week's episode, be sure to share it with friend.
00:18:50
Speaker
Connect with us socials. And and remember, you are not alone on this journey.
Promotional Segment
00:19:00
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Each package is sold on a first-come, first-served basis. So if you see one you like, contact your dealer. For more information, go to www.adec.com backslash findadealer. Thank you for listening to Beyond Graduation brought to you by Ignite DDS and future dentists. This episode was sponsored by Ignite DDS coaching. We build self-determined futures. For more information, please reach out to the Ignite DDS team.