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Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes
269 Plays1 year ago
A Spanish galleon laden with 14 tons of treasure sinks off the coast of Portugal in 1804. For two centuries the ocean keeps these riches for herself. But in 2007 an American company finds the wreck and attempts recovery, setting off an international legal battle.
If you are a fan of Killer Shipwrecks be sure to check out Killer Biographies: https://www.killerbiographies.com
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Transcript
Sponsorship by Harmony and Hanrahan
00:00:05
Speaker
Today's episode is brought to you by the law firm of Harmony and Hanrahan, who specialize in waterway litigation. Harmony and Hanrahan will get you back on the water.
Fun Facts About the Number 11
00:00:39
Speaker
Episode 11. Unbelievable. We made it. Seems like we were just at nine. Yeah. Um, do you have any fun facts about the number 11? I don't. I mean, I, I know that 11 is what you turn it to when you want to make it really loud, super loud. It's the first thing is a numeric palindrome, right? Cause that's one, one. Oh yes. Also called a rec digit. Um,
00:01:02
Speaker
Also called a rep digit, I think, you know, the first repeated digit, but that's the same palindra. Okay. Um, I had one more fact. Oh, the Canadian loony. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that coin. No, it sounds funny though. That's a funny name for a currency, right? Like you don't think of currency being something silly. Yeah. Must have a loom on it. Uh, 11 sides on that baby. Wow. Yeah. Interesting.
00:01:28
Speaker
Well, interesting and totally unrelated to what we do here. But we are teetering on factoids about the episode number.
00:01:35
Speaker
Well, you seem to know your, your facts about numbers, like what's a, you know, which one's a prime, which one's a this, you know, basic stuff. Yeah. Anyways, episode 11 is exciting and super exciting, but also kind of sad. Yeah. We're getting close to the end of the season. Yeah. We only do 12 in a season and I always start to feel a little nostalgic as we get toward the end.
Nostalgia for Andrea Doria Shipwreck
00:01:59
Speaker
I'm already nostalgic for last week's Andrea Doria. Can I tell you that the minute that we completed our pod last week, and again, for people who don't know, I am unaware of the ship that you will be presenting. You're unaware of the ship I will be presenting. So it's all new material as we learned in real time.
00:02:18
Speaker
I spent quite a bit of time looking at photos of the Andrea Doria and diving pretty deep. Fantastic story. Unbelievable photos though. You sent me some great, um, sent me a photo of, uh, of Linda Morgan, the 14 year old who broke her arm. I had to look her up. Yeah. And she's, she's still out there. She looks great. Yeah. And Harry Trask, Harry Trask, that Pulitzer prize winning photographer.
00:02:45
Speaker
You know, we do a lot of historic shipwrecks in which they happened hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. So of course, there are no photographs. But when you do a ship like the Andrea Doria, and then you get to see the photos of the ship actually sinking, it's insane. And the funny thing, well, again, funny not being humorous, but the irony of it being such a beautiful Italian crafted ship, it's like with the art, it's truly amazing.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, and that's the one that goes down. And as you said, the one with the duct tape on the front is the one that continues operating. Still hauling grain across the Atlantic. You know what I mean? But the funny thing, or again, not funny, the thing about the Andrea Doria is it had all these highfalutin people. It had the fancy carvings, I'm sure, throughout. So what a drag that it went down. Yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
Uh, another fun fact, remember that one of the guys that was on that ship was half of a songwriting team, which wrote some Elvis. Yes. And, uh, he gets rescued. And then when he's met at the dock in New York, he's met by the other half of that songwriting duo. And the guy says, Hey, uh,
00:03:59
Speaker
Hound Dog is number one in the nation. A guy named Elvis Presley is singing. And Mike Stoller says, Elvis who? Oh my god, you've got to be kidding me because it had been a big hit for Big Mama Thornton. Or at least, you know, I don't know if it was a big hit, but she was known for it. And then Elvis rerecorded it. And it just unbelievable.
00:04:23
Speaker
And the tie-in to the Andrea Doria. The other fun fact that we discovered later, Cary Grant's wife also rescued from the Andrea Doria. And she was the one who introduced Cary Grant to LSD. Unbelievable. You know, you think of introductions. My wife introduced me to her ex-boyfriend. It was awkward. And in this case, she introduced him to LSD. And it wound up being a lifelong relationship. He was quite fond of that particular substance.
00:04:51
Speaker
Let me also remind you in particular that this is the last shipwreck I'm presenting this season.
Podcast Season Wrap-up and Future Plans
00:05:00
Speaker
This is it? Yeah. Do we need to let the listeners in on our plans for next season? The shipwrecks may go on hiatus for this season.
00:05:10
Speaker
I think we've teased just a little bit. And again, people need to listen closely in order to glean some of this information. But we have alluded to the fact that killer biographies could be the next brainstorm production. What do you think? I don't know. I think it's a great idea. And I'm just happy that we'll still be in the brainstorm family of podcasts.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes. Not switching platforms. Exactly. Yeah. I like our deal. I like our deal at the new place. I'm perfectly happy. And it sounds like we're accruing sponsors, you know, with the law firm. So great stuff. But let's get into this week. I started the season, if you recall, with the San Jose, 1708. I remember everything about it. Wagers action.
00:05:55
Speaker
So that was, as you actually mentioned prior to me even informing the audience, it was a Spanish galleon. And what was specific to that shipwreck was the crazy amount of gold and silver coins. Emeralds from South America. So that was super cool. So here we are. This is my last ship of the season. In fact, if I could have one ship, I feel like a Spanish galleon might be my choice. How about you?
00:06:24
Speaker
I love them. I mean, I just find them to be super exotic. Not so long ago, where I feel like, wait, what were they wearing shoes? Like when it's thousands of years ago, where I got to envision something I can't relate to. The Spanish, like those ships, it's like a few hundred years, not completely different. You know, they're still playing backgammon.
00:06:44
Speaker
Or how about a melee ship? Do you think you could go into a shipyard nowadays and say, look, I want to order like a melee ship. Right. Especially for like a small lake. Havasu. You know what? We try it out on Havasu first. We sort of like, you know, figure it out. We board a few pleasure craft.
00:07:02
Speaker
And then if it's going well, you know, we take it out on the ocean. Hey, pontoon boat, we're here for that beer and we're a warship. So you might want to turn that over right quick. Do you think enough time has passed that we could use that boat name, the bad meeting?
00:07:20
Speaker
I would so resurrect. In fact, if I ever were to own a boat, it's going to be called the Bad Meeting because there's no better name. Still my favorite name of any ship we've covered at all. Yeah. All right, but let's get into this.
Historical Context of Spanish Ship from 1804
00:07:34
Speaker
So I'm back.
00:07:35
Speaker
in what I want to say is sort of like returning to the beginning, squaring the circle, if you will, but essentially going back to the roots of this season, first episode, I'm back with another Spanish ship. Wow. Love those. So what are we talking? Are we talking like 1700, 1600? Either later, but close. We're at 1804.
00:07:58
Speaker
That's the year that the ship actually that we're going to cover today sank. It sank in 1804. Now, let me give you, as also become part of my template, if you will, the context of 1804. Yeah. Let's just quickly set the context of 1804 because now we're going to talk about something that was on Earth from the ocean from 1804, brought up recently. So 1804 was incidentally a leap year. You've got to be kidding me. I'm not kidding you.
00:08:25
Speaker
Why do you always get the, the, uh, ships that went down and completely inadvertent anyways, 1804 was the year that Haiti gained independence from France. So when we think of Haiti, that became the first black Republic in 1804. Yeah. Wasn't that the first maybe only, but I don't like the first, um, fully successful slave rebellion.
00:08:50
Speaker
You are correct. Part of what happened in 1804 in parallel with Haiti gaining its independence from France was what was known as the Haiti Massacre. And that was the ethnic cleansing that included eradicating the entire white population on Haiti.
00:09:06
Speaker
So that was going on in Haiti. And that does sound very aggressive and everything, but probably, you know, French had it coming. And then the other thing to be said is I recall some journalism recently pointing out that there was some weird deal where for years afterward, like maybe going even into present times, Haiti was having to pay some sort of reparations to France, which is insane.
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, that seems like the double reverse got you like what? Yeah, that's they got screwed. Okay. Is this like Thomas Jefferson time? Or is this, you know, unbelievable. And again, you have a knack for understanding the exact time period. You are correct. Thomas Jefferson actually in 1804 won the presidential election. So we got a second term was technically awarded in 1804.
00:09:57
Speaker
But now, one of the things that I love about 1804, and when I say I love it, I don't love it, but it's a great story, was when Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hamilton in that famous duel. That happened in 1804.
00:10:13
Speaker
Also 1804, given we have Jefferson in office, was when Lewis and Clark set out on the expedition that they became so famous for. Yeah. And they got, uh, what's her name to help out with the, um, Saca Dewey. Yeah, that's a tough name. I think Pocahontas trips off the tongue a little better than Saca Dewey. I prefer Pocahontas and in fact, self admittedly, like I get them confused. Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker
We already we've name checked Pocahontas a few times so far, but this is come up with Clark's time with Sacagawea on the show. So we want to welcome her. Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure a great story worthy of her own pod story. Killer Biography. Other quick facts on 1804 as we wrap it up with 1804. Nathaniel Hawthorne was born
00:11:00
Speaker
Okay. That's kind of cool. Yeah, very cool. You know, for like Hawthorne, like imagine him as a baby, knowing what he's going to end up writing. Hawthorne's like in a crib, a little baby Hawthorne. And then, honey, honey, a baby has a very serious sort of dour expression on his face. Is everything okay? He's already pondering stuff.
00:11:21
Speaker
Please get him a quill. I think he has something to say that he can't verbalize, but maybe on paper. What a wonderful, I love Hawthorne. Anyways, on the death side, we had a manual count. Oh. If he's gone to college, you probably were forced to read a little bit of this journal. A little bit. I could not make heads or tails out of it.
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm still sorry to hear that he passed in 1804. But Hawthorne was a little like a little baby. Yeah. Well, it's the circle of life. You've got Hawthorne coming in and you got Kant on his way out. All right, so here
Spanish Navy's Treasure Plans in 1802
00:11:55
Speaker
we are. Now, let's
00:11:56
Speaker
Let's get into this ship story. So in 1802, which is two years prior to the ship sinking, which I've alluded to, back in Spain, the head of the Navy received a letter and he was informed of these large quantities of treasure down in Peru, in Lima, that he said, you know, if you send a few warships, we can load all the treasure on these warships and we're good to go.
00:12:21
Speaker
But there's a lot of treasure here. We should get it back to Spain. Fantastic. I mean, it feels like they probably came and they brought to the natives like venereal disease, smallpox, things like that. And then on the way back, they take the treasure. So it doesn't feel like a fair swap. Not here to judge.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yeah. So you know where this is going. And again, this is 1802. So it's two years prior to the event we're going to be speaking. And compared to today, I feel like this is happening in slow motion. Well, I mean, already when you said he gets, he receives a letter, it's like, Oh my God. Oh yeah. Two years later. It's like, wait, what? Two years. Yeah. And it was like, it was in the saddlebags of
00:13:03
Speaker
Saddlebags and five different donkeys on its way to the boat and then, you know, send some boats. Everything's sort of so slow that it's like, it's not like Bitcoin. And again, there's no post office. That letter probably took six months. It's like, oh, I hope you're enjoying your spring. It's like, dude, it's Christmas.
00:13:20
Speaker
A few warships were dispatched to Lima to pick up the treasure. Now, quick side note, although they were at peace, so Spain was not at war with anyone, technically, at the time. They were at peace with England in particular. England, for its part, maintained what they called a policy of harassment, which to me, when your policy is harassment, I mean, I appreciate the transparency of the policy, but it seems also like, why are you doing this policy?
00:13:49
Speaker
I don't know. Do you think some maybe religions part of it, you know, like Spain and France, a lot of Catholics and maybe in England, they're there. That policy of harassment towards Spain from England, they said was rooted in the fact that Spain had an alliance with France. Yeah. Now, Peru is it's over there on the left side of South America. So I guess these warships are going to have to go down all the way down here.
00:14:17
Speaker
You know, that would be the navigation podcast. And I haven't studied those, Matt, nor have I gotten a compass and tried to figure out with the winds like where we're going. No, but do they have to go around, down whatever cape that is, and then back up the left side of South America?
00:14:34
Speaker
I could probably figure it out if I had the right navigational maps. If I had a tide watch, that'd be cool. If someone wants to send me a tide watch. Anyway, so England is technically at peace with Spain, but they're pissed because Spain is kind of friends with France.
Destruction of La Mercedes by the British
00:14:48
Speaker
So it's like, you still like the French. Yeah. And they've got an official policy of harassment.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah. I'm going to adopt that as an official policy. It's been my unofficial policy for most of my familial relationships. And it's interesting that now I can probably just call it what it is, a true policy. Yeah. For me, it's more judgment. Like I'm super nice to strangers, but for the people I love the most, super judgmental. I bet you could probably online diagnose and treat that. I don't think that's like deep sort of like, why do you like to bite the heads off lizards and feed them to your cat?
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, but just being super judgmental with your loved ones. AI could tell me in two seconds what my problem is. Totally don't think it's good. I'm just saying, I think it's easily diagnosable. Okay. All right. So there's the policy of harassment, although at peace. Okay. So now in 1804, the British get some intelligence, okay, from a British diplomat who's in Spain. They find out about this treasure that the Spanish are planning to pick up in South America. Oh, wow.
00:15:51
Speaker
The prime minister is William Pitt the Younger. So yes, obvious question, his dad William Pitt. William Pitt the Younger, he devised a plan. And the plan was to intercept the little flotilla of warships that were returning from South America that had all this treasure. Yeah, sounds like a great plan. Well, I mean, again, they weren't at war with each other. It reminds me of Gal Capone, like, right? The trucks are coming in with the whiskey, we'll intercept the trucks, we get all the whiskey.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah, just do a little quick smash and grab. Hey, we're not at war, but you know, we're officially our policy is to harass. So we are at sea, you know, our policy. So anyways, one of the ships that the Spanish sent down to pick up the treasure was called the Nuestra Señora della Mercedes. Now, Nuestra Señora della Mercedes. Now, I'm not sure if it's Castilian.
00:16:47
Speaker
If it's Castilian, then it's Mercedes. If it's not Castilian, it's Mercedes. Essentially, the translation is Our Lady of Mercy. Oh, okay. I thought you were going to say there were a bunch of Mercedes on board, but I see what you're saying. No, we're not. And I don't know if there's a tie-in to the karma. So that's what Mercedes means, mercy.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah, Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes. It's a 36 gun Spanish frigate and it was part of this small flotilla at the time sailing from Uruguay to Spain. Okay, so they had already picked up the treasure.
00:17:21
Speaker
So they picked up the treasure, and the treasure consisted primarily of coins, silver and gold, but also had cinnamon and quinoa. Okay, so, and your reaction is exactly mine, it was like, what's with the quinoa? Keep the quinoa, you can keep the cinnamon, that's cool. There's definitely someone back in Spain that's like, please tell me they didn't recover the quinoa. It's a grain, it's a seed, dude. No one wants to eat that, it's so bland.
00:17:49
Speaker
But so I'm guessing some people were like, whatever, we lost the quinoa. That's the bad news or the good news. Come on. Still, they had all these coins, you know, gold, silver, man. And it's almost like they had so many coins, you know, because there was no electronic transfer in 1804. There was no like type in the password and then it's like one zero zero zero. So it was all points.
00:18:11
Speaker
Oh, I imagine them in like, you know, big wood chests and stuff, you know, treasure, right? Yeah. So anyways, they are hauling over a million coins. Oh, Lord. Over a million. Oh, boy. On the ship. But also the quinoa and some cinnamon. I mean, I guess if you dress up the quinoa with some of the cinnamon, then that helps a little bit. Right.
00:18:33
Speaker
So other things that were on board, because, you know, this is 1804, so they have a record of what was brought on board. So the other thing that they brought on board was related to medicine. Oh, God. Okay. So from South America, they took the cinchona tree, and that's from like the Amazon basin. And essentially, that's what was used to create quinine. Oh. Probably not pronouncing that correctly. Okay. Yeah, which they... Quinine, I think. But it was used for... Quinine. The husk of the plant.
00:19:01
Speaker
Um, is that used for malaria? That is exactly what it's used for. So it's against diseases like malaria. So they were bringing plant so that they could develop that. Yeah. So it's like, okay, you guys nevermind the quinoa and the cinnamon, but mainly coins, but also, yeah, give me the quinine. Right. How much do I have to pay you to take this quinoa off our boat? Cause I know you don't want, but it's like, it's better than rice, dude. It's better for your heart. Anyways, they all
00:19:27
Speaker
Also, in addition to the quinine, as you correctly pronounced, they had what's called ritania extract, which is a medicinal plant. It grows in South America and it has a very high tannin content. So it's become a very powerful astringent, like an antiseptic. They found for this ship a shipment of this ritania plant that was addressed to a guy named Hippolyto Ruiz. Love that name. That's a good name.
00:19:55
Speaker
He's a botanist. So he's a botanist who introduced this drug to Europe. So he played a big part of, you know, what became modern medicine in Europe.
00:20:11
Speaker
Anyways, this flotilla with this cargo is headed back to Spain and along the coast of Portugal, it's intercepted. Oh, so it gets across the ocean. It does. It's now across and it's near Portugal, so it's heading. Wow. But again, it's the British. Yeah, because they get the intelligence, but I mean, you already made the point. They know when they're coming.
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, but you already made the point about, you know, it's, it's the old days. They didn't have internet. They didn't have cell phones. So would love to know more about that intelligence. And then also it's like, even if you get the tip, it's like, you don't know what day the boat's going to, I mean, that's still hard to, to, uh, to locate it. Okay. I agree.
00:20:52
Speaker
I mean, it's a feat, all this stuff. As you said, it happens over the span of two years. So it's like, are you guys ready? Okay, we'll see you in six months. When you say a flotilla, or is this like, you know, three ships, five ships? Three to four boats. And so they're coming back, they're along the coast of Portugal, and they're intercepted by the Royal Navy Task Force.
00:21:11
Speaker
Ironically, Graham Moore, who's the commander of the HMS indefatigable. It's literally their name. The HMS indefatigable. Can you imagine the guy who came up with that name? That's a crap name. Indefatigable.
00:21:26
Speaker
That's going to be appropriate. That's terrible for a boat. Compared to the bad meeting. Yeah. You might be better at the compass, but that's a terrible name. A bad meeting would have you guys for breakfast or every day of the week. It's almost annoying that that great ship with all the coins and with the sexy Spanish name, De Mercedes. Yes. And then it's the indefatigable that takes her down.
00:21:50
Speaker
But you're exactly right. The Spanish commanding officer of the Mercedes, he was Brigadier Jose de Bustamante y Guerra. He objected. So he said, hold on. We're at peace. We don't need to do this. We're not at war. Our countries are at peace. So we're not going to comply with your order. He objected. He objected to just losing his entire... I object.
00:22:16
Speaker
Actually, we're not at war. So what are you guys doing? Is this like a robbing us? I'd like to file an official protest. So how do you think the English responded? Know what? We'll give you the quinoa. We'll call it a day. We go our separate ways. No harm, no foul. Here's the quinoa. If you want to drive a hard bargain, I'll throw in a little bit of cinnamon. We have a few coins. Do you like quinoa? We have so much quinoa. And it's like, do you guys like us? This is the true treasure of South America. Quinoa.
00:22:45
Speaker
Have you ever heard of quinine? Okay. We're going to give you a year's worth of quinoa and some quinine or the husk, and you can figure out how to make it from there. But yeah, we got some retinas plant. Yeah, we got it all. All right. So we have the Spanish commanding officer saying like, dude, out of our way. We're not at war. We need to get through. I've got quinoa on board. You know, these are seeds. And so he's like, no way the English respond. How do you think they respond?
00:23:12
Speaker
They say, well, that makes good sense. You're right. We're not at war. Why don't you just go on your merry way? Exactly. And they do the opposite. They decide to start a battle. So the English ship, a different ship, the Amphion, they launch. This is five minutes into the battle because it's not clear what's going to happen.
00:23:31
Speaker
They launched one single cannon shot and unfortunately kind of a warning shot or they actually hit a little bit like a hit shot. Like we're going to get you once it's a cannonball, but it hits exactly where the gunpowder is stored. Now, was that a lucky strike or that's what they were aiming for? Pure luck.
00:23:49
Speaker
is my assumption. Because again, tools, not so sophisticated. So you are just kind of launching a cannonball. But regardless, it causes the La Mercedes to immediately explode and sink. Jesus. So it sunk like within 15 minutes. Wow. Just off the coast of Portugal. Just imagine the dude that fired that cannonball.
00:24:08
Speaker
It's like that is the greatest shot you ever fired. I will never buy a round at any English pub ever for the rest of my life because I just took out that Spanish galleon loaded with a million coins. I mean one shot and the whole thing exploded. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Now on the downside. There's a lot of downside.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, because, well, we haven't even gotten into the death toll, but I assume that the English wanted to get their hands on those coins, but if the ship goes down. Well, too late, exactly. The ship goes down. So, they weren't thinking so much at the time that they were going to end up causing the ship to sink that quickly. Right. So when you say they were aiming, they weren't necessarily aiming to do that. They were aiming to take over.
00:24:54
Speaker
And so when the other ships saw what happened, then they sort of ended up letting the British kind of take over. Yeah, I would too. It's like, whoa. So they were seized. Those ships were seized by England. So the other ships in the flotilla. And do you think they had treasure on them as well? Not nearly what was contained on the famous La Mercier. Yeah, of course it's the one with the massive store of treasure that goes down.
00:25:22
Speaker
It's so insane, like the total amount of coins. It's literally over a million just doing this to get me all. We say shiny coins, I believe. This is like epic. But on the downside, because there is a downside, we lost a ship here, 250 Spanish crewmen died, went down on the ship, 250.
00:25:44
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of ships in the area. I would have thought maybe some would get rescued either by by friend or if this was very violent, like the way in which the ship went down that quickly, 250 were lost. Fifty one survived and were rescued from the sea and they were taken as prisoners. Wow. So that's a lot of death to 50. It's a lot. You know, that's a big percentage. Any idea how close they are to the coast of Portugal? I think they said 120 miles. Oh, OK. Not super close. So not super close, not swimmable.
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah. You know, unless you're like, unless you're Diana, I add, wasn't the lady that was always trying to swing from Cuba to Florida. She made it. How long? I don't know. She just eventually made it. I think, I mean, she was doing it still in her sixties or seventies. It's incredible. It's incredible. Like hats off. I'm not getting enough cold pool. Do we have a specific date in 1804 when it goes down? October, like October 5th. Man, that's another, that's another common thread. And, uh, this in the fall and a lot of October Rex.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, I know. It is kind of leap years. October is this one involved Tom Hanks at all or no? Don't recall him being a part of any of the remakes, but not sure. Yeah. He feels like a guy that would be in a movie where one of the ships is called the indefatigable.
00:27:00
Speaker
So that ship gets sunk. Now her wreck, the La Merced is in modern times is compared with the USS Arizona. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, as soon as you mentioned the Mercedes, I know that that's been a holy grail for years. People trying to find that one.
00:27:18
Speaker
Huge. And they compare it to the Arizona because, first of all, the tremendous loss of life instantly that happened. And also the fact that it was unprovoked. So Spain was not doing anything to provoke Britain. They were just heading back to port and the countries were not at war. They were just bringing back the stuff they stole from the natives in South America. A few points, quinoa, and some medicinal plants. Like, can you just let us go? Yeah. That... Oh gosh, Lizzie. Okay.
00:27:48
Speaker
Got to pay the bills. Got to pay the bills. Got to keep the lights on. True story. All right, let's hear from Harmony. The wonderful law firm actually secured by Lizzie. Let's give her credit where credit is due. Harmony and Hanran, and I wonder if they got in on, well, I don't want to jump the gun. I was going to say, if there's any litigation from Mercedes, I wonder if Harmony and Hanran got their little mitts into it.
00:28:12
Speaker
Talk about teasing what's coming next. Let's go to harmony. Listen through the commercial. Let's get to harmony and then I'll see you in the courtroom.
00:28:20
Speaker
Nothing ruins a day on the water like getting cited for operating while impaired. This happens to you or a loved one called Harmony and Hanrahan. With offices in both Springhill and Bayport, Harmony and Hanrahan specializes in waterway litigation. This includes unlawful boat repossessions, riparian rights, disputed access points, and boats jeopardized by divorce proceedings or regulatory action. Harmony and Hanrahan will get you back on the water.
00:28:50
Speaker
Opera Pro to have Harmony involved in this episode because we're about to take a turn towards the litigation. Oh, great. You know what I was going to say? Speaking of people getting cited for operating while impaired, I think one of your favorite old Blackhawks, Dustin Bufflin once racked up an arrest for driving while impaired.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that could have been also applied on the ice. He was a very tough player. He was a tough player. And a scuttlebutt was he wouldn't take the breath test or he wouldn't take the, do the blood test or something. Cause he had also been doing coke that day. Not a role model. Not all hockey players are role models. Are they bringing any coke back from South America?
00:29:34
Speaker
No, this is really confined to the coins. And so many coins, it literally is like Vegas times a million when you look at the number of coins that were on that ship. It's like, wait, you gotta be kidding me. Like, what lottery? So anyways, let's flash forward 200 years. So we know that the ship went down in 1804. 1804, all of those coins were literally speaking about over a million coins.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah. So the guy who fired that cannon is like super happy for about five
Controversy Over Odyssey Marine's Treasure Claim
00:30:04
Speaker
seconds. And then it, when it immediately goes on and he's like, Oh, totally buff that. I mean, that's a treasure that can change a nation's fortunes. You know what I mean? Dare I say a subject of killer biographies, the guy who fired the shot, that let's think a billion dollars.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah, we'll look into it. He's not the only one who gets in trouble. The captain of his ship has some explaining to do when he gets back to England. You're quick to spread the blame, but I put it on the guy who fired that shot. Anyways, let's flash forward to 2007. 2007. It sat underwater for 203 years. You are correct. How about that? Now there's a company. Oh God. That reported having found something. No, don't tell me.
00:30:50
Speaker
I'm really sorry to tell you, yet it's entirely appropriate that it's the Odyssey Marine exploration. For a company that finds so many valuable wrecks, how can their share price be so absurdly low? I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you what a horrible company this is. And again, I'm not your financial advisor. I would be in so much better shape if you were.
00:31:17
Speaker
I literally would have talked you out of investing in this company. Like in fact, I would have gone to the mat to make sure that you, I would have involved your wife. Like it would have been that level. Really? No, you're not allowed to do this. Okay. Had I known, of course. I appreciate that. I mean, that's, that's been a medicine to take, but you would have been justified to go straight to the boss.
00:31:37
Speaker
I'm just being honest. I'm just being totally honest. Okay, so Odyssey Marine claims that they've found it. Does that turn out to be true? You're even more generous than you should be. They don't claim to find anything. They claim to find something that they have now codenamed Black Swan. Black Swan.
00:31:56
Speaker
Now Odyssey says, Hey, we recovered over 500,000 silver and gold coins that are valued at over a half a billion. And we've now taken them to the United States. Now we're not telling you where it's from, but we're telling you, this is what we've recovered from the shipwreck that we've discovered. Well, that would be a short list. I mean, people keep track of shipwrecks. So as soon as they give that number of coins and that value, did people start to say, well, that's got to be the Mercedes.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah. So a lot of people were speculating on the recovered coins and they were saying things like, okay, they also have some copper ingots. This strongly suggests. Yeah. Put that in the pile with the quinoa. Like I don't need the copper ingots. You know, can you guys put the quinoa to the side, please? The colonial era Spanish ships that sank, you don't have this minted silver from South America. That's usually going to Spain. Yeah. So people speculate it.
00:32:49
Speaker
Now, initially, they thought it was from the wreck of an English merchant ship called the Merchant Royal, which sank in 1641, by the way. But that quickly kind of made no sense. Is that true, though? So they got all the coins and brought them back to America?
00:33:06
Speaker
They did. Wow. Yeah. Any details about how deep down it was or anything like that? Was it a difficult wreck to get to? Not particularly. It was more difficult in terms of how much searching you had to do to find it. So in 2005, incidentally, one of the co-founders of Odyssey Marine, a guy named Greg Stem. Oh, yeah. I know all about him.
00:33:30
Speaker
He admitted to the British shipwreck expert, Richard Lauren, that his firm, Odyssey, was searching for the merchant royal. So that was that English ship they were looking for. And he was really looking for that. But then in 2009, he put the Odyssey crew in a television show for the Discovery Channel called Treasure Quest.
00:33:52
Speaker
and pictures of the coins that the Odyssey had retrieved, which had a lot of their markings obscured to prevent identification. This is what Odyssey was doing, was making sure no one could tell where the coins were from. Well, that's no fun. So they were making them blurry. I mean, that's the whole point. You want to see good detail. Well, especially you want to know the history of the provenance of the coin. But anyway, so I want to know if I can get one on eBay, but go ahead.
00:34:16
Speaker
Let's get to that in a minute. But first, experts started examining the edges of the coins. And they were able, based on the edges, to determine they came from the middle of the 18th century. So they were definitely too late to be that merchant royal ship that Odyssey said they were looking for. So then rare coin expert, and again, there's always a rare coin expert.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yes. But again, that feels like something from a Hardy Boys book. Go ahead. So the rare coin expert said this is an unprecedented find. There's nothing equal or comparable to it. It's incredible. So what was it with the weird like code name Black Swan? I mean, I know that a Black Swan event is like a one in a million event. Is that right? Well, ultimately what Odyssey was trying to do is obscure the fact that they had come about finding a Spanish ship.
00:35:05
Speaker
and they didn't want to deal with maritime law and the fact of the providence of the coins and they kind of wanted to just keep all the coins. It's definitely in international waters though if it's that far off the coast but
00:35:20
Speaker
Right. But even being in international waters, it's not going to protect you from the claims of both, um, Spain and then maybe even Peru. And you could not be more spot on. And again, perhaps because of your legal background. Dude, I should go to work for Harmony and Anran. I've got a knack for this stuff.
00:35:38
Speaker
I'm starting to think we're going to, the podcast is going to lose you to that firm and it's super annoying. And I actually forbid it. In fact, can we, we're going to have to put something in your contract. Yeah. Okay. You stick to what you do anyway. So, but, but, but you're raising the interesting point. And I remember even in that very first or second episode, you mentioning that you also enjoy hearing about the litigation involved. So this ship has that. And so the salvage law.
00:36:03
Speaker
in international waters, which as you correctly describe is where they discovered these coins, is recognized by some English speaking countries that 90% of the recovered treasure should go to the salvage firm. So how did Odyssey screw this up? Hold on.
00:36:19
Speaker
This feels like this should be a success story. So Spain says that the entire ownership should be them of the wreck and the cargo. And they're saying, I'm not paying any salvage award because the cargo of the Mercedes was protected by sovereign immunity, which by the way, in their opinion, supersedes admirality law. Okay. But just as you indicated in Peru, because a lot of the recovered coins were minted in Lima. Yeah.
00:36:46
Speaker
And I'm betting it wasn't in a union shop. I mean, I'm betting it's people working in some crappy conditions who mined that metal and, you know, then minted it. You like to push the boundaries of could we put political in the tags? What type of show we do? But we're not doing this one. We can. Okay, go ahead. So Peru says, you know what, that treasures ours.
00:37:09
Speaker
Hmm. A hundred percent of it? Not a hundred percent, but they want something. Yeah. Because a lot of the coins were minted in. Did you notice that crafty Spaniards are like, yeah, a hundred percent's ours. That's our starting position. It's all ours. You know, where is the Peru? Odyssey is saying 90% because they're saying salvage law.
00:37:28
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, that's apparently a standard salvage. Eh, just give me a percentage. Yeah. Whatever. 90%. Okay. Um, so you got three, you got at least three parties battling here. You got Odyssey Marine Exploration Company, Spain, Peru. Spain says, you know what? I understand what you're saying, Peru. Out of a sense of what they say, common cultural heritage. We destroyed your culture.
00:37:52
Speaker
We will share a lot of these coins with you, Peru. I want to see the fine print. Oh, what is sharing mean? Like, what are we talking? That's not your jurisdiction. So there's no need to see the fine print. I'm telling you, they're willing to share some of the treasure out of a sense of common cultural heritage. However, Peru, as well as some of the descendants of the merchants who happened to actually have shipped those coins and cargo, hold on a second span and hold on a second Odyssey.
00:38:20
Speaker
No, wait, are there actual descendants? Yes. Yes. This becomes like the mother lode of legal entanglements. It's like they have a record of the dude who sent the plant who wants to introduce the medicine. Like, hold on. I had a patent. Hello. It's queen iron. Yeah. What? This is the problem with the Odyssey Marine Exploration Business Model is they, boy, they come out of the woodwork.
Legal Battles Over Recovered Treasure
00:38:45
Speaker
When you find a wreck, everybody wants their little slice.
00:38:49
Speaker
And we know Harmony is not necessarily the world's biggest firm yet. Obviously they can afford to sponsor our podcast. But when you look at the litigation involved in just this one ship, is it still going? Has it all been wrapped up? So Odyssey immediately was sued by the Spanish government because the Spanish government was like, hold on Odyssey.
00:39:07
Speaker
You just took a Spanish ship's treasure and walked off and took it to America. What? So they're asking for the treasure to immediately be returned to Spain. So that becomes Odyssey marine exploration versus the kingdom of Spain. I don't know if that was in your prospectus.
00:39:22
Speaker
No, they never mentioned this. When I was buying thousands of shares in that company, they never mentioned this. Prior to investing, we want to disclose that we are in a lawsuit with the kingdom of Spain. I think all they said was, hey, we found the Black Swan ship and I was like, all right, let's do it. Hello. Black Swan sounds awesome. Sounds like mysterious and really super lucrative. Anyways, they deposited all of the artifacts.
00:39:47
Speaker
Oh, so they did. They shipped them back to Spain? They shipped them to the National Museum of Aquatic Archaeology. Oh, where is that? That's cool. Seriously? Yeah. Oh, that sounds amazing. I'm surprised that Uruguay didn't try to get in on this too. Like, you know what? They left from, we were the last port they left from.
00:40:07
Speaker
Yeah, I probably didn't go too deep on the litigation. Maybe Uruguay was there. Yeah, I'll let you get on with the table. I went to like the semi-finals. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to the earlier rounds of litigation. We're going a little bit later. So Odyssey, they're dealing with the Spanish government, right, in the US courts. But the Spanish government is literally suing Odyssey in the US court system. Damn it.
00:40:28
Speaker
Okay. And they're demanding the treasurer's return to Spain. So again, they lose. They just keep losing. And eventually they literally appeal to the Supreme Court. Wait, Odyssey did? Yes. Oh, man. Not sure if this is in your perspective. No, but it's starting to explain the share price today.
00:40:44
Speaker
On February 9th, 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear an emergency application this day filed by Odyssey Marine. Freaking Supremes. It wanted to maintain possession of over half a billion dollars worth of gold and silver coins until a final decision is made about who owns them. It just wanted to hold on to them.
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's all. That's all we're saying. Just holding them. Yeah. Why are you mad at that? Anyway, Clarence Thomas was the justice who had jurisdiction over this application because it did come from Florida, which is where obviously is. He denied without comment. So he just said no, Supreme Court's not going to take this case. Clarence, buddy. Could have helped your stock price.
00:41:26
Speaker
So are you saying this is a done deal now? Like where I'm never going to get a bump in the share price of the shares that I own. Like the black swan is gone. It belongs to Spain. You should be so lucky. I'm worried about your legal exposure. Let me say that in February, 14 and a half tons of cargo, which is primarily made up of golden February of what year 2012, right after they lost this last ditch effort of the Supreme court, 14 tons of silver and gold coins are flown back to Spain.
00:41:54
Speaker
Oh, no. But then they're like, and I don't know if this is reminiscent of anything, but they're like, are those all the coins? Or Odyssey, do you have anything else to tell us? Like, are there any other coins? Like, that's 14 million tons. That's a lot of coins. It's really like a parent, like talking to a kid. But you're not quite- Are those all the cookies we took? All the coins, right? He gave us all the coins, right? It turns out a small number of coins.
00:42:19
Speaker
We're also deposited in Gibraltar and Odyssey kind of forgot about it or whatever. Wait, that's so weird. Yeah. So how does all that work? They shipped them all at one time, but they did a stop off in Gibraltar. They had initially deposited a small number of the coins in Gibraltar, like near Spain or whatever.
00:42:37
Speaker
So then they ultimately determined that the coins that were deposited into Peralta belonged to that same shipwreck. So Odyssey had to give those up. So those returned to Spain in 2013. And that's when the court ordered Odyssey to return them. And what about Peru? Does it ever get any of the coins? They do get some coins, but in significant amount. So once all the coins are returned to Spain, Spanish law dictates that they can never be sold to the public.
00:43:04
Speaker
This story keeps getting worse. I'm sorry. I mean, that's silly. So they just sit in a museum somewhere? Yeah, but they're incredible. I know. What do you need with 14 tons of them in a museum? That's what I'm saying. When you see the number of coins, it looks like a joke from Vegas of like someone winning a slot machine. That's like, what are all these... How in the world do they keep that museum from getting knocked off? I don't know.
00:43:31
Speaker
But let me tell you that in 2015, and again, I'm not here to harp on the Odyssey, right? Like I wish you well. I would have, had I known about this company, I would have gotten involved like in your personal life to make sure that you didn't invest in this company. But again, maybe they're great and I hope it all works out.
00:43:50
Speaker
For those listeners who have not listened to the entire catalog of this season's episodes, I will point out that not only do I own an obscene number of shares in the Odyssey Marine Exploration Company, and not only have I lost thousands of dollars on that company,
00:44:07
Speaker
But now, as I said before, they switched to like, okay, we're not having a lot of success with these ships, even when we do find them, it just litigate. So now we're going to try to harvest phosphate off the floor of the ocean near Mexico, and they're getting sued for that.
00:44:25
Speaker
We're still getting sued for that. These guys could go to the cafeteria to get lunch and they'd get sued for that. Could I tell you where this goes? And again, I'm not here to disparage anybody, but I forget the guy's name, the co-founder of the Odyssey. The next thing I'm going to hear from you is like, oh, this dude's sleeping on my couch. He said he just needs to stay somewhere for a week to figure out the new business plan.
00:44:45
Speaker
No, he'd be persona non grata. He's going to show up and he's going to be like, Kit, you own 12 million shares of my company. I'm going to give you another 20 million. The sad truth is it would take about 30 seconds if he was like, hold on, dude, let me tell you about this, this other shipwreck we're looking for. I'd be like, what'd you say? Did you just say the ball. There's a lot of great shipwrecks in the ball tank.
00:45:07
Speaker
Anyways, so, you know, let's get back to the fact that Odyssey returns all the coins, right? So everything's great. Now Odyssey is like, all right, fine. We learned our lesson. No more black swan. We're going to be above board. We're going to do this right way. Not so fast. So 2015, the Spanish government was like, you know what? Let's do an archeological expedition to study the shipwreck. This is a great shipwreck. Like we need to go check it out.
00:45:30
Speaker
Oh, because Odyssey Marine just grabbed the coins and laughed. Yes. Okay. So the ship still down there. This is a crazy shipwreck. Like this is a beautiful Spanish galleon. So they went down and what they were able to quickly prove is that Odyssey had caused significant damage to the ship when they were extracting the coins.
00:45:49
Speaker
So what they determined, they were using some sort of destructive vacuum cleaner type of device. Kind of like an industrial shop vac. Yeah, it sounds like my guys. Kind of like an industrial shop vac, where it's like, well, no, let's just, it's fine. No, it's fine. We don't need the safety guard. Let's just put it on, put the nozzle on. We got it at the Home Depot in Sarasota. Right after that lawsuit, a district court in the United States ordered Odyssey to pay Spain a million dollars for bad faith and abusive litigation.
00:46:18
Speaker
So they, they not alone. So they was a hundred percent of the coins and then they still have to pay money. They did because they permanently damaged the ship with their insanity of how they picked up all the points. I question that. I mean, it's been underwater for 200 years. Like how are you going to distinguish between what Odyssey Marine did and what just the natural process of deterioration? It was a US district court that, that ruled that they had bad faith and abusive litigation.
00:46:46
Speaker
Um, in their lawsuits. Yeah, it's not good. So then in 2017, incidentally, the Spanish Navy went down and rescued two of the candles that were on them. Very cool. Each one weighing two tons. So those are also on two tons. So that's like what, uh, you know, like a car from like the eighties or something. Huge. That's like that, that car that was on the Andrea Doria, the Norseman. How cool. That looked really cool. Yeah.
00:47:15
Speaker
I said, you know, you mentioned some of- Wait, do we know where the museum in Spain is? Yeah, I'll post it, or Lizzie can post it. Okay, because that's very cool. It's a Spanish naval museum, and they actually have a show there in an exhibition called The Last Trip of the Frigate Mercedes, or Recovered Cultural Treasure.
00:47:36
Speaker
And it features a lot of the photos of not only the ship that they looked at underwater, but the cannons that they brought up and photos and examples of the coins, which I must say are incredible. Yeah, truly incredible. And not just the sheer volume, but when you look at the coins, they're incredible. I wonder they must have cleaned them all up nice and shiny because they probably didn't look great when you first bring them. You can see pictures of both. That's what's so cool. You're exactly right. And the lighting, once they clean them up,
00:48:05
Speaker
Like, oh my God, like how much gold was on that ship? Well, it's amazing to me that that amount of treasure sits in a museum. I really am surprised by that. I would think there'd be some nominal amount. You show the public and then, you know, the rest goes into the Spanish treasury or half and half between Spain. So now in terms of popular culture, because you mentioned it in the last week's show where the Andrea Doria has popped up in modern fiction, right?
00:48:35
Speaker
So with respect to this ship and the recovery and so on, there was a fictionalized comic book that was based on this project and it was called The Treasure of the Black Swan. And it was actually written by the Spanish diplomat who happened to be involved in the lawsuit. Yeah, the Black Swan does give a sort of, that makes the whole thing even more mysterious and dramatic.
00:49:00
Speaker
For sure. And so then they actually then there was a Spanish graphic novelist who created this incredible art piece essentially. Cool. And that was adapted into a television series called La Fortuna. Sweet. Yeah. So the same year, a Spanish action film directed by Juan de la Guero called The Vault. Love his work.
00:49:21
Speaker
basically is essentially the Black Swan story. And that was released by Sony. And then ultimately National Geographic in 2021, they did a movie called Battle for the Black Swan. And that tells the story and the discovery of the wreck. Wait, a movie like a documentary? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. It tells the whole story of the discovery of the wreck, the salvage, and obviously the disputes.
00:49:44
Speaker
Okay, so that's probably on discovery or something. Exactly. National Geographic. It won a gold medal for history and society at the 2020 Give me the title one more time. It's called the battle for the black swan. Right on. And that tells the whole discovery of the wreck. Wow. 250 people died on that thing.
00:50:03
Speaker
Yeah. So tragic, you know, not tragic. They lost the quinoa. I wouldn't classify that as tragic. Yeah. If only that had been like the last remaining quinoa, like, you know, yeah, there's there's still too much quinoa in this world. But I do wonder a little bit about the fallout, you know, back in England when it became clear, like, oh, they they muffed the job. They screwed up. They didn't.
00:50:27
Speaker
All of the treasure is on the bottom of the ocean and it's going to sit there for 200 years until the Odyssey brings like a Hoover and picks it up. It's weird. I mean, some of these things, they were trying to use diving bells and stuff. Did anybody at the time of the battle or soon after try to go down and get it? Not that level of research. I have a cursory understanding of this record. I mean, if it's 100 miles off the coast, maybe it's
00:50:53
Speaker
You know, 200 and some odd years to find it. I don't know like how easy and accessible it is to get down there. Would be pretty cool to have been the crew, the very first crew, why it sounds like it was Odyssey Marine, the very first people on it who start to realize like, incredible, incredible, because it really is like, you know, 14 tons of treasure. When you see the number of coins,
00:51:17
Speaker
It's such sort of an inelegant way of transporting currency because you're like, what? How have they done it in the display case? Like, are they all just like neat rows under glass things? Or do they like various to give you various photos of all the coins? Yeah.
00:51:32
Speaker
Every every version that you want to see is there. Yeah, it's insane. And then the beauty of the coins, the close up, you know, of the coins minted in Lima, they were able to detect based on the edging are spectacular. Drives me crazy that they're all just sitting in the museum.
00:51:50
Speaker
1804, the Mercedes and it had almost got there. It had almost gotten to Europe and then the Spanish and the English were just waiting. They had good.
Odyssey Marine's Financial and Legal Troubles
00:51:59
Speaker
And amazing that then it sits there for 200 years. They thought they were home free. They brought it all back to America and they're like, here we go.
00:52:08
Speaker
Well, and again, one of the reasons they were also mad at the Odyssey was that they considered that wreck a graveyard. And so they said the Odyssey just went down there with a Hoover and they didn't care like what they were doing. And it's like, whoa, what about the fact that you damaged the ship and had no respect for the fact that 250 people died there? It's all for the shareholders, I guess. I see your perspective.
00:52:30
Speaker
But also it feels like then you're just kind of you're adding on causes against them. I mean, the bottom line is you were pissed that they got the coins first and took them back to America and you want the coins. Like let's not pretend you're so worried about some bones, you know, spoken
00:52:45
Speaker
like an investor. But when they brought it back to America, I'm sure they were like, why did they deposit a few of them in Gibraltar? What was that all about? That was sort of like overly dazed. I think they were like, whoa, okay, here we are. Let's put some of this into Gibraltar. Because in a way, I would almost think that you would want your first stop to be back in America. Why put them over there somewhere?
00:53:09
Speaker
in a jurisdiction where you might not get a friendly hearing. It sounds like a question you might want to raise at the next shareholder meeting. It's notable that the American, or if I can talk to one of the lawyers at Harmony in Hanrahan, but it is notable if we're looking for some silver linings here. It sounds like the American justice system was not jingoistic and just, okay, we're going to side with the Americans here.
00:53:34
Speaker
they pretty much absolutely yes no it very much paints the US legal system in a very positive light all the way up through the Supreme Court which was like what no yeah I wouldn't even hear it Clarence Thomas just an unsigned yeah
00:53:51
Speaker
No, and I apologize to you as a shareholder. I understand it's Yeah, just a little something a little like explanation what's going on and just I'm gonna have to this will be maybe the only time but I'm gonna have to side with with Clarence. Yeah, I agree with Clarence. It's probably the correct call. I mean, I would like to know what what's the breakdown and
00:54:09
Speaker
It sounds like maybe Peru just got like a few coins off the top and that it feels to me like it ought to be more of a 50-50 because when you really think back to the big context, it's like the Spanish did a lot of damage and other European countries when they came to the new world and really, you know, they were just extracting wealth. So I hope Peru got their fair share.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah. And again, slippery slope. When we get into, is this a political discussion or I don't know. It's right. Right is right. I completely agree. And again, there's a gray area there. Bottom line is a lot of good people lost their lives on this ship up primarily because of an inadvertent cannonball to the magazine of the Mercedes.
00:54:53
Speaker
which just happened to last just amazing. We've done this for three seasons. We haven't had the miracle bullet yet that just lands right perfectly in the, you know, right in the gunpowder blows the ship up. We have the miracle breeze. Yeah. The vasa that was sort of like a whisper of a breeze. And it's like, why are you tipping over? No, but this is like your wildest dream as a guy on the cannon crew. It's like you've never seen that before.
00:55:20
Speaker
where you shoot one and the whole thing blows up it's like what did we just do just aim for the magazine you'll never hit it so dr. tour now next week will be episode number 12 have you considered what ship
00:55:37
Speaker
I haven't finalized. I'd really like to, you know, if you remember in season finale, right? It's absolutely a season finale. And if we do, um, uh, do a hiatus and I explore some biographies for a little while, that means that this is, could be the last shipwreck for a while, at least for this season, uh, the brainstorm family of podcasts brainstorm team has been great to us.
Season Finale Teaser: Viking Ship Stories
00:56:03
Speaker
They've been.
00:56:03
Speaker
You know, so supportive and gotten a lot of good feedback from them and resources and stuff. What I was going to say is back in the, um, our very first season before we found brainstorm, if you remember two of the ships I did were Viking ships. I'd really like to get back to that. If I could, I love Viking ships. I liked the way they were built. I liked the stories around them. So I'm, I'm going to try to get back to a Viking ship. We'll see how it goes. You know that Hager.
00:56:32
Speaker
That was one of my favorites when I was a kid, because it was so ridiculous with the hat. And a lot of those Viking ships have that special kind of manufacturing technique. They're called clinker ships where it's like overlapping boards. They're just cool. So cool. And they're long and they're just...
00:56:51
Speaker
Remember, they would set up some of them on fire, like as a funeral pyre. So incredible. So dramatic. They did a lot of cool stuff. Like a lot of those guys were buried in them. My lovelies were buried with their ships. They're like, screw it. Some of them sounded like they were just straight out psychopaths, but some of the battle methods and the berserking and all that. But I'd like to get back to the Vikings if I could. Very violent. Great ship, the Mercedes. And I didn't even know Mercedes means mercy.
00:57:19
Speaker
Well, wait, the San Jose was worth an estimated 17 billion with a B. I wonder what this one was worth. Half a billion. They said it's a little over half a billion. Yeah. In coins. I wonder if we're going to get to that with planets and meteors and stuff like that. Like aren't there some planets or some bodies out in space where like they have they're just full of rare metals or even diamonds or whatever? It's like when's that whole era going to begin of spacecraft going out there?
00:57:47
Speaker
Oh, you're totally right. Yeah, probably after we're around. Yeah, it'll totally happen. Oh, man. Great ship. Love the shiny coins. And I'm super excited for the season finale next week. And before we talk next time, I will be watching the National Geographic documentary on the black swan. Just incredible. And maybe I'll even get to see some of those flunkies from Odyssey Marine interviewed on camera to touch a nerve.
00:58:14
Speaker
I already have a lot of animus, but, um, look forward to the ship. You'll be presenting what will be the final episode of season three. It will be episode 12. Looking forward to it next week. Can't wait. All right. We'll see you in a week.
00:58:50
Speaker
you