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The Solutionary Way w/ Zoe Weil
4 Plays8 months ago
A “solutionary” has multiple definitions, one of which reads, “A person who identifies inhumane, unjust, and/or unsustainable societal systems and then develops solutions to transform them so that they do the most good and least harm for people, animals, and the environment.”
Today we are joined by Zoe Weil who has dedicated her work to creating, spreading the word, and teaching what it means to be a solutionary. She has written eight books including her most recent book we’re talking about today, The Solutionary Way. She’s delivered multiple TEDx talks and keynotes around the world on educating to solve the world’s most pressing problems. And she’s the co-founder and president of the Institute for Humane Education, which has been making serious strides in implementing the Solutionary Framework in schools around the country as well as in their own graduate program.
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Transcript
Introduction and Acknowledgements
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of our podcast.
00:00:13
Speaker
My name is Chris McNutt and I'm part of the Progressive Education nonprofit Human Restoration Project.
00:00:18
Speaker
Before we get started, I want to let you know that this is brought to you by our supporters, three of whom are Leah Kelly, Alexander Gruber, and Nick Rudig.
00:00:26
Speaker
Thank you for your ongoing support.
00:00:28
Speaker
You can learn more about the Human Restoration Project on our website, humanrestorationproject.org, or find us on social media and YouTube.
Defining 'Solutionary' and Introducing Zoe Weil
00:00:35
Speaker
So to kick things off, a solutionary has multiple definitions, one of which
00:00:39
Speaker
one of which reads, quote, a person who identifies inhumane, unjust, and or unsustainable societal systems and then develops solutions to transform them so that way they can do the most good and least harm for people, animals, and the environment.
00:00:56
Speaker
And today we're joined by Zoe Weil, who has dedicated her work to creating and spreading the word of solutionary thinking and teaching what it means to then be a solutionary.
00:01:08
Speaker
She has written eight books, including her most recent book, which we're talking about here today, The Solutionary Way, which is displayed prominently behind me.
00:01:16
Speaker
She's delivered multiple TEDx talks and keynotes around the world on educating to solve the world's most pressing problems.
Zoe Weil and the Solutionary Approach
00:01:22
Speaker
She's also the co-founder and president of the Institute for Humane Education, which has been making some really serious strides in implementing the solutionary framework in schools around the country, as well as in their own graduate program.
00:01:34
Speaker
So welcome back.
00:01:35
Speaker
So it's good to speak with you.
00:01:37
Speaker
Oh, it's so great to be back, Chris.
00:01:38
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, of course.
00:01:41
Speaker
So, you know, I figure we just kick things off by talking a little bit about what the book is, what you're going for with a little bit of an overview.
00:01:51
Speaker
Before we even jump into this question, I have queued up here about Dr. Jane Goodall, because I'm just so curious about one.
00:01:57
Speaker
how you got her to write the foreword to the book.
00:02:00
Speaker
That's a big name, but also just her interest in the work and what you're doing.
00:02:05
Speaker
Before we get there, can you talk to us a little bit about what it means to be a solutionary for folks that just aren't familiar at all?
00:02:11
Speaker
Sure.
00:02:11
Speaker
Well, you just gave the definition.
00:02:14
Speaker
And embedded in that definition is this ethical component of doing the most good and the least harm to people, animals, and the environment.
00:02:24
Speaker
So the reason we need this made-up word, solutionary, is because a solutionary is not synonymous with problem solver.
00:02:33
Speaker
So an engineer can solve the problem of damming a river or blowing up a mountaintop for coal removal, but they're not a solutionary because they're not taking into consideration the impacts on other species and the environment.
00:02:48
Speaker
So that's part of what it means to be a solutionary.
00:02:51
Speaker
Solutionary is also not synonymous with a humanitarian.
00:02:55
Speaker
So humanitarians seek to relieve suffering and mitigate the effects of destruction and harm, but they're not in the business of addressing the causes of that suffering
The Ethics of Solutionary Thinking
00:03:08
Speaker
and harm.
00:03:08
Speaker
So solutionaries have this ethical component, and they are also driven to address the
00:03:15
Speaker
the root and systemic causes of problems.
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:19
Speaker
And something that I know is super key to your work is that concept of including animals explicitly as part of the solutionary framework that we're not just looking out for ourselves, but also the entire ecosystem explicitly, the well-being of animals, birds, et cetera.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:36
Speaker
And even further than that, Chris, is that we're not just talking about protecting species.
00:03:42
Speaker
We're talking about individual animals, too.
00:03:44
Speaker
So any being that is capable of suffering and feeling pain, their interests should be considered when we are endeavoring to solve problems.
00:03:56
Speaker
And so that also makes solutionary different from many other sort of change-making focuses, which may be very explicitly only focused on human rights or only focused on environment or maybe focused on people and the environment, but not other species.
00:04:14
Speaker
And we think that all are worthy of consideration.
Inspiration and Progress in Solutionary Work
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:18
Speaker
And I really appreciate the work that you're doing with both the book, but also the work at large of the Institute for Humane Education, because it's very applicable.
00:04:27
Speaker
It's not just a framework or a mindset where it's just like, oh, we can make the world a better place.
00:04:34
Speaker
It has actionable steps to making the world a better place.
00:04:36
Speaker
It's not hypothetical.
00:04:38
Speaker
And that's what really stood out to me about the foreword of the book with Jane Goodall, because she has this little story that she includes about how she was working with a group of young people talking about changing the world.
00:04:51
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And they say something like, together we can.
00:04:55
Speaker
And Goodall responds, yes, absolutely we can.
00:04:58
Speaker
But will we?
00:04:59
Speaker
And therefore the students reply, together we can, together we will, together we must.
00:05:04
Speaker
And I found that to be both inspiring, but also kind of ominous because it has like this tone of like, yeah, but are we going to do it?
00:05:12
Speaker
So I'm curious about how that frames the work that you're doing with the solutionary mindset, this idea of doing things together and actually taking action.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:20
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And it was an incredible honor to have Jane Goodall write the forward to my book, as you can imagine.
00:05:29
Speaker
So there's a lot of anxiety and depression, particularly among young people and among everyone, but we're seeing a rise in depression and anxiety among youth.
00:05:45
Speaker
Hmm.
00:05:45
Speaker
And I think it's really important that young people understand that a better world is possible and that actually much has changed for the better.
00:05:56
Speaker
So in my own lifetime, I'm 63 years old, so much has shifted for the better.
00:06:02
Speaker
I mean, when I was born, there were states in the U.S. where black and white people could not get married.
00:06:08
Speaker
I grew up in New York City, smog and soot coated the city and many, many other cities in the United States.
00:06:16
Speaker
There were, I mean, you're in Ohio, there were rivers and lakes catching on fire.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:25
Speaker
You know, half of people around the globe when I was born lived in extreme poverty.
00:06:30
Speaker
That's now below 10%, still way too high, of course, and still a huge number of people.
00:06:37
Speaker
But there's been a shift, a positive shift.
00:06:42
Speaker
And even half of the people in the world didn't have electricity, and now more than 90% do.
00:06:47
Speaker
I don't want to be Pollyanna-ish about this.
00:06:49
Speaker
There is much that is bad, but things can be bad and better at the same time.
00:06:54
Speaker
Some things are worse, right?
00:06:56
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So we have created a less polluted environment.
00:07:01
Speaker
air system in the United States.
00:07:02
Speaker
We
Overcoming Barriers to Change
00:07:03
Speaker
don't have as much smog and pollution here, but in other countries, it's horrific.
00:07:08
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So we know these things aren't static.
00:07:11
Speaker
And I want to just, I want to state that a better world is possible because we need that premise in order to work for change.
00:07:21
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And I think when Jane Goodall says, but will we, it's because a combination of factors
00:07:30
Speaker
keeps us from trying to change systems.
00:07:33
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And some of those factors are just our mindsets, our apathy, but sometimes our anxiety and depression keep us from thinking like, why bother?
00:07:47
Speaker
And then of course, there are these integrations
00:07:50
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interconnected systems that are very difficult to change.
00:07:55
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And so becoming a solutionary to address them in ways that will, where we find good leverage points for real systemic positive change.
00:08:04
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It's not easy work.
00:08:05
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The reason I wrote a whole book, The Solutionary Way, is because it isn't as simple as just saying, I want to be a change maker.
00:08:13
Speaker
I mean, solutionary is like a next level change maker.
00:08:16
Speaker
It's a process and it takes work.
00:08:20
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So that will we is really a question of do we have the motivation, the sense of agency and empowerment, the desire to do this work?
00:08:36
Speaker
And
00:08:37
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I hope that in our conversation, people will hear that it's not just work.
00:08:43
Speaker
It's meaningful.
00:08:45
Speaker
It's joyful.
00:08:46
Speaker
It builds community.
00:08:47
Speaker
It builds friendships.
00:08:49
Speaker
I mean, I just think about like your podcast and the work you do.
00:08:53
Speaker
I'm sure you feel as I do, like,
00:08:55
Speaker
You met the most amazing people.
00:08:57
Speaker
It's incredibly exciting and energizing to do positive work with good people.
00:09:02
Speaker
And it is an antidote to despair.
00:09:05
Speaker
And or as as David Orr said, hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled
Youth Engagement and Education
00:09:12
Speaker
up.
00:09:12
Speaker
So we got to roll up our sleeves and the hope comes and the joy comes and the world gets better.
00:09:20
Speaker
I mean, and I'm sure you notice this in your own work with youth.
00:09:23
Speaker
It seems like many young people are more aware of the problems that are going around around the world more than ever, which is a great thing.
00:09:30
Speaker
People are very much into critical dialogue.
00:09:33
Speaker
They're aware about our world's pressing issues, climate change, war, all the various problems going on in the world.
00:09:40
Speaker
But we also know that hopelessness is at an all time high.
00:09:43
Speaker
Anxiety rates are at an all time high.
00:09:44
Speaker
Depression's at an all time high.
00:09:47
Speaker
And a lot of folks do feel very disenfranchised from their ability to act as an individual to change those things.
00:09:53
Speaker
Could you walk us through briefly what it literally looks like to be a solutionary at a classroom level?
00:09:59
Speaker
Like, what would you actually be doing?
00:10:01
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:10:02
Speaker
And can I tell a quick story before I go through that?
00:10:06
Speaker
So, and I probably, on our last podcast, I probably shared this, but it just reinforces what you said.
00:10:13
Speaker
And so 12 years ago, so before the pandemic, before wildfires were all around the globe, before these rates of anxiety and depression among youth were so high, I was invited to speak at a middle school in Connecticut.
00:10:28
Speaker
And first I spoke to the fifth and sixth graders and I
00:10:31
Speaker
asked them what they thought were the biggest problems in the world, and their answers filled up a whiteboard.
00:10:36
Speaker
And they had not been learning about those problems in school.
00:10:39
Speaker
One boy even said sex trafficking.
00:10:42
Speaker
You know, he was in fifth or sixth grade.
00:10:44
Speaker
So these kids knew about these problems, even though they weren't learning them in school, just like you were saying.
00:10:50
Speaker
And then I asked them to raise their hands if they could imagine us solving the problems they listed.
00:10:55
Speaker
And of the 45 children in the class, only five raised their hands.
00:10:59
Speaker
Only five of 45 could imagine us solving the problems they listed.
00:11:04
Speaker
That was a very sobering moment to me.
00:11:07
Speaker
So I shifted things around.
00:11:10
Speaker
I did a guided visualization with them.
00:11:12
Speaker
By the end of that guided visualization, I said,
00:11:15
Speaker
Now, you know, raise your hands if now you can imagine us solving the problems that you just listed and 40 hands went up in the air.
00:11:22
Speaker
What it took to restore their hope was imagining that a better world existed in their future and knowing they played a part in it.
00:11:31
Speaker
So what is this step that you just asked?
00:11:35
Speaker
What is this solutionary framework?
00:11:38
Speaker
Well, we've identified four phases of the framework, and they all start with the letter I so that I can remember them.
00:11:45
Speaker
So the first one is identify.
00:11:47
Speaker
The next phase is investigate.
00:11:50
Speaker
The third phase is innovate.
00:11:51
Speaker
And the fourth phase is implement.
00:11:53
Speaker
So what do those mean?
00:11:54
Speaker
So each phase has another couple of processes that you do in them.
00:11:59
Speaker
So
00:12:00
Speaker
It's really important to identify an actual problem and one that is feasible for you working collaboratively to solve.
00:12:13
Speaker
So we don't want kids in classrooms saying my problem is climate change or my problem is global poverty.
00:12:20
Speaker
It's too big a problem.
00:12:22
Speaker
for a kid to solve in what could be a couple weeks of a unit to do the solutionary framework.
00:12:31
Speaker
One thing that was really interesting, yesterday I was at the kickoff for the new cohort of teachers in Maine who are going through our solutionary micro-credential program to be solutionaries in Maine.
00:12:45
Speaker
And one of them was describing
00:12:48
Speaker
how one of her students selected a problem and then through the next phase of investigation, realized it wasn't actually a problem.
00:12:56
Speaker
So sometimes we think we know what the problem is, but until we actually get into the second phase of investigation, we may find, oh, that wasn't really a problem.
00:13:08
Speaker
This is a bigger problem, or this is a different aspect to the problem.
00:13:12
Speaker
So that was pretty fascinating to hear that
00:13:15
Speaker
Problem identification is critical to the process.
00:13:19
Speaker
What is the problem you're trying to solve?
00:13:21
Speaker
Is it an actual problem?
00:13:24
Speaker
The next phase, again, is investigation.
00:13:27
Speaker
This is where we are talking to stakeholders, ones who agree with us, ones who don't agree with us, to people who are working on solving the problem, to people who are benefiting from the systems that perpetuate the problem,
00:13:41
Speaker
In addition to obviously the people who are being harmed and the animals in the environment, obviously we can't talk to animals, we can't talk to the environment, but we can talk to representatives who are working on their behalf.
00:13:53
Speaker
So we investigate it thoroughly to understand its interconnected systemic and root causes.
00:14:01
Speaker
That's phase two.
00:14:02
Speaker
Phase three, then we're going to innovate a solution.
00:14:05
Speaker
And by innovate a solution, I don't mean that it has to be a solution nobody has ever thought of, that it has to be like a stroke of genius for some fourth grader.
00:14:15
Speaker
No, it could be that they actually find some solution that's being implemented somewhere else.
00:14:21
Speaker
and could be spread and could be expanded upon.
00:14:26
Speaker
Or it could be that they find some solution, they read about it, but nobody's implementing it, and they're giving voice to that solution.
00:14:33
Speaker
Of course, they may come up with their own really great solutions.
00:14:36
Speaker
But the idea is that we're innovating a solutionary solution.
00:14:40
Speaker
And by that, I mean, one that addresses the root and systemic causes and
00:14:45
Speaker
and doesn't have unintended negative consequences, or has as few as possible.
00:14:49
Speaker
That really does the most good and the least harm.
00:14:52
Speaker
And then finally, and this is so important, students get to implement some aspect, if not their whole solution.
00:15:01
Speaker
And this is what's often left out.
00:15:04
Speaker
And it's important because until we implement the
00:15:08
Speaker
We're not going to experience really the meaning and the purpose and the joy of putting into practice our good ideas.
00:15:16
Speaker
But also if we don't implement, we can't evaluate and iterate and improve.
00:15:21
Speaker
So that implementation process is really an important part of the solutionary framework.
00:15:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:27
Speaker
I mean, it sounds like in many ways what you're doing is you're combining together a lot of
00:15:33
Speaker
frameworks into something that is uniquely positive.
00:15:37
Speaker
So like project-based learning, place-based learning, liberatory design.
00:15:41
Speaker
I mean, there's a million of them that you could toss into the pot.
00:15:46
Speaker
But at the end of the day, it just comes out to be authentic work that does good things and makes people better people.
00:15:53
Speaker
And I consider the fact that if you have a generation of folks who are raised up through a framework like this, what would that mean for society at large?
00:16:03
Speaker
And I would assume that you, like myself, like that's the reason why we do this work is that we want to build a better world.
00:16:09
Speaker
It's not about the paycheck.
00:16:10
Speaker
It's not about like the recognition of making some cool framework.
00:16:14
Speaker
It's about the fact that
00:16:16
Speaker
If enough people went through programs like this, we would have social justice.
00:16:20
Speaker
We would have cleaner environments.
00:16:22
Speaker
We could change these things in a very short period of time, which I think is often left out of the discussion.
00:16:28
Speaker
You know, as a history major, a big part of the things that we study were social movements.
00:16:33
Speaker
It's amazing how
Principles and Practical Applications of Solutionary Framework
00:16:34
Speaker
quickly when people come together, something can change from even a few weeks to a few years.
00:16:39
Speaker
This is not something that has to be imagined as something that's not happening within our lifetimes.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:45
Speaker
A critique I often have of like a lot of like social justice movements when it's taught is like, this will sound great and we'll fix it for the next generation.
00:16:53
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Like, well, no, I want to fix it for my generation, too.
00:16:56
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I have a stake in this game.
00:16:57
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I want the world to be a better place now.
00:16:58
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I don't want to wait.
00:17:00
Speaker
And if you have students that are able to implement those solutions in real time, perhaps that will cause them to behave differently once they're out of school.
00:17:08
Speaker
So that's just really, really cool stuff.
00:17:12
Speaker
And something I wanted to talk a little bit about is how do you get students to solve things within those wicked problems, those systemic problems, and get them to understand how their individual actions can work.
00:17:28
Speaker
work to solve those things.
00:17:29
Speaker
You bring up this concept of, I think it's MOGO, more good.
00:17:33
Speaker
Could you explain a little bit about what it means to tackle a systemic problem and use that MOGO principle?
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:40
Speaker
So MOGO is short for most good, least harm, and then even shortened to most good.
00:17:44
Speaker
So MOGO is just an easy way for us to think about doing the most good and the least harm to people, animals, and the environment, that whole package.
00:17:52
Speaker
And so
00:17:54
Speaker
We're really clear when we are working with students that it's really important to narrow down the problem, like I mentioned before, so that it's actually solvable within their sphere of influence.
00:18:10
Speaker
And that's just important because otherwise they're not going to feel successful.
00:18:15
Speaker
They're not going to actually...
00:18:18
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really learn the process if they can't go through all of the phases.
00:18:23
Speaker
And you really can't go through all of the phases if you've picked a problem that is really beyond your capacity and your timeframe to solve.
00:18:34
Speaker
That doesn't mean that you can't pick a problem like climate change.
00:18:38
Speaker
You're just going to narrow the problem down.
00:18:40
Speaker
It might be that our school has a high carbon footprint that
00:18:46
Speaker
That could be reduced.
00:18:48
Speaker
So now the students are working on reducing their own school's carbon footprint.
00:18:54
Speaker
Absolutely feasible to address.
00:18:58
Speaker
Or our school's cafeteria is serving food that is harmful to the environment and cruel to animals.
00:19:07
Speaker
And that is something that students could address and they could shift some of what served in their school cafeteria.
00:19:15
Speaker
Sure.
00:19:16
Speaker
We always focus on that.
00:19:17
Speaker
I do want to loop back to what you sort of were saying before.
00:19:23
Speaker
So the reason why I wrote the solutionary way is
00:19:28
Speaker
is because my work has been dedicated for quite a long time to educate a generation of solutionaries.
00:19:34
Speaker
That's the subtitle of this book, The World Becomes What We Teach, which we talked about last time I was on your show.
00:19:40
Speaker
And that's been my life's work.
00:19:44
Speaker
At the same time, I know that we can't wait for a generation of solutionaries to solve the problems that we face right now.
00:19:51
Speaker
I mean, students can do incredible work right now, but as you were just saying, you know,
00:19:57
Speaker
We can solve problems quickly when we come together, and particularly for those whose spheres of influence are bigger and greater and whose expertise is more extensive.
00:20:09
Speaker
They can solve problems faster now, and we don't have to wait.
00:20:13
Speaker
And we don't have to rely on a generation coming up to solve our problems.
00:20:19
Speaker
So I wrote the Solutionary Way because this framework is so effective with students,
00:20:25
Speaker
We need adults and people who are in all different professions to be adopting it.
Human Restoration Project's Role in Education
00:20:32
Speaker
And the book only came out at the end of June.
00:20:35
Speaker
And it's been really exciting to see some of the responses from people in different areas.
00:20:42
Speaker
professions.
00:20:43
Speaker
So a doctor who runs a couple of health clinics is using the book with his entire staff in both clinics so that they can be solutionaries in healthcare.
00:20:55
Speaker
And I sent the book to Jared Fishman, who runs the Justice Innovation Lab, which is something that I mentioned in the section of the book on criminal justice solutions.
00:21:08
Speaker
And he just contacted me.
00:21:09
Speaker
He loved the book and he wants to use it with his law students.
00:21:14
Speaker
And a brilliant biochemist read the book.
00:21:19
Speaker
And he's now said, like, I used to just suggest that everybody read these two books.
00:21:24
Speaker
Now I have a third book everybody should read.
00:21:27
Speaker
And it's the solutionary way.
00:21:28
Speaker
He's a biochemist.
00:21:29
Speaker
We had a free webinar on bringing the solutionary framework to solving issues using public policy.
00:21:39
Speaker
And you can find that webinar on our website, humaneeducation.org.
00:21:46
Speaker
And now we're going to take a quick break for a sponsored message.
00:21:53
Speaker
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00:21:55
Speaker
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00:22:07
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We do this through a three-step process.
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all tailored to address the specific questions or interests of schools and districts.
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00:22:48
Speaker
presenting key themes, student quotes, and areas of success and growth in a comprehensive school portal.
00:22:55
Speaker
And third, we provide tailored recommendations including research-backed strategies, actionable steps with varying levels of effort, and connections to additional partners to address key concerns.
00:23:05
Speaker
HRP supports districts with case studies, grant applications, and ongoing professional development to ensure successful implementation.
00:23:13
Speaker
This work is meant to elevate the incredible work that schools are doing while providing a never-before-possible opportunity to listen and learn from all young people in the learning community.
00:23:23
Speaker
Our goal is to make this process work with your space, and therefore we're highly flexible with time requirements, scheduling dates, district constraints, budgeting, and more.
00:23:33
Speaker
HRP has conducted hundreds of focus groups representing thousands of students in over 40 districts nationwide.
00:23:39
Speaker
We are proud to support strong school partnerships, equity-driven practices, and to support a strong data privacy policy to protect all learners.
00:23:46
Speaker
Our empathy interview process and ongoing workshops have retained a 94% great or excellent rating with educators, and we're honored that we are consistently invited back to districts to support their professional development.
00:23:57
Speaker
Learn more about this opportunity and get involved on our website, humanrestorationproject.org, and we look forward to hearing from you.
Project-Based Learning and Its Impact
00:24:28
Speaker
A science teacher at the school I used to work at implemented a recycling program alongside students.
00:24:32
Speaker
Students were the ones that came up with the idea.
00:24:34
Speaker
And because they actually implemented it, they own the process.
00:24:37
Speaker
So there was way more buy in from other students to actually participate in the recycling program and keep it going.
00:24:44
Speaker
This thing can be said, though, at the college level.
00:24:47
Speaker
Here in Columbus, Ohio State University architecture students have put in these really cool, it's like a stimming device that are put in place on these benches that they install that allow you to use your fingers to like cause sound on these wind chimes, like these really interesting displays and they're designed for
00:25:06
Speaker
young people, especially young people with disabilities to kind of use and concentrate their energy on these spaces.
00:25:13
Speaker
But also they look really cool.
00:25:15
Speaker
They're like a net benefit in terms of aesthetics.
00:25:18
Speaker
And it's a seating area for folks that want to sit down.
00:25:21
Speaker
And those were all inspired by projects that students were doing at the college level.
00:25:25
Speaker
Imagine if you did that with 100 college classrooms instead of 99 of them lecturing and one of them actually doing something.
00:25:31
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:32
Speaker
And what that would then mean.
00:25:33
Speaker
And that really gets into that dreaming piece that I'd love to talk to you about.
00:25:37
Speaker
There was a quote that stood out.
00:25:39
Speaker
in your work that I just really thought was well written.
00:25:42
Speaker
Not that the rest of it wasn't.
00:25:43
Speaker
I just really like this part.
00:25:44
Speaker
You said, there's a beautiful regenerative future ahead of us where conflicts are resolved peacefully and where we live harmoniously with the ecosystems that support life.
00:25:54
Speaker
And this gave me a very solar punk vibe.
00:25:57
Speaker
I don't know how familiar you are with the speculative fiction movement, but folks like NK Jemisin are writing these really interesting stories about futures that actually have solved problems.
00:26:08
Speaker
What role does dreaming and hope drive you to creating that better future along young people?
00:26:14
Speaker
Like what gives you hope in the world to keep doing this work?
00:26:18
Speaker
So I don't read a lot of speculative fiction these days, but I'm a huge Star Trek fan.
00:26:24
Speaker
And that's the original solar punk.
00:26:27
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:30
Speaker
And I mean, I even asked William Shatner to kiss me in front of 5,000 people at a Star Trek convention when I was 15 years old.
00:26:37
Speaker
He actually said he had trench mouth.
00:26:39
Speaker
He said, sorry, I have trench mouth.
00:26:43
Speaker
just like Shatner would say it.
00:26:46
Speaker
And I yelled down from the balcony because this was in front of 5,000 people.
00:26:50
Speaker
I said, I don't care.
00:26:52
Speaker
But I didn't get the kiss.
00:26:54
Speaker
But I did get a good story out of it, which I can, you know, tell to this day.
00:26:58
Speaker
But, you know, I do ask myself,
00:27:02
Speaker
why I was willing to publicly humiliate myself as a teenager, because it's not something that most teenagers strive to do.
00:27:11
Speaker
And I think that it's, it's because Star Trek, the, the series, the stories, the characters just provided a vision of the future in which we had solved so many of our problems.
00:27:29
Speaker
And,
00:27:31
Speaker
I feel like that vision keeps me going.
00:27:35
Speaker
Knowing if you can dream it, you can work toward it.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:41
Speaker
So yes, I
00:27:43
Speaker
That kind of vision does keep me going.
00:27:46
Speaker
Other things that keep me going are honestly what I said before, hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up.
00:27:52
Speaker
Like you roll up your sleeves and you do the work and great things happen and you're surrounded by great people doing great things and it builds hope.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I'm also pretty good at restoring myself in nature with my dogs, going out on walks.
00:28:11
Speaker
I meditate.
00:28:12
Speaker
I exercise every day.
00:28:14
Speaker
Like those things keep me balanced so that I'm able to take in the real...
00:28:23
Speaker
horrors and atrocities that are still happening in the world that I want to change.
00:28:28
Speaker
And so it's really this finding this balance of maintaining one's equanimity in the face of everything that we are facing.
00:28:42
Speaker
And I am not a particularly equanimous person by nature.
00:28:45
Speaker
I'm more of a fiery person by nature.
00:28:47
Speaker
So I have to do a lot in order to stay
00:28:53
Speaker
joyful and happy and kind and bridge building and non-divisive.
Empowering Students as Solutionaries
00:29:03
Speaker
Like these are things I work at all the time because the more you learn about terrible things in the world, the angrier it makes you and the more sorrow you feel and
00:29:16
Speaker
And you cannot project that into the world.
00:29:19
Speaker
You need to find outlets for it, but you cannot go around with rage and sorrow and expect people to want to join your club.
00:29:29
Speaker
Because why would you want to?
00:29:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great point.
00:29:34
Speaker
And I think it is worth reiterating what that looks like at a classroom level, because I think a lot of folks might
00:29:42
Speaker
at a curricular level or at a teaching level want to avoid talking about issues because they don't want students to become cynical.
00:29:51
Speaker
However, first off, they already know, as you mentioned before in that story and through my own experience as well, kids are very aware of what's going on in the world.
00:30:00
Speaker
Honestly, probably through social media, which I would consider actually be a net positive, even though it has a lot of negative impacts on young people as well.
00:30:06
Speaker
But
00:30:09
Speaker
There's no way to restore humanity or give hope to young people unless you tackle those problems head on and give them the tools to work with it or else they're just along for the ride.
00:30:20
Speaker
And we're going to have a generation of folks that think education is simply learning about all the bad things that might be going on.
00:30:29
Speaker
And then that's the end of it.
00:30:30
Speaker
That's just like, we're just here.
00:30:33
Speaker
And it's inspiring to know that you can change the world and people are doing it.
00:30:39
Speaker
constantly.
00:30:39
Speaker
Can I take that on to that?
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, go ahead.
00:30:43
Speaker
So, so beautifully put, Chris.
00:30:47
Speaker
And that I told that story about those kids in Connecticut.
00:30:51
Speaker
Well, a few years later, I was speaking at a conference, a teacher's conference in Guadalajara, Mexico.
00:30:57
Speaker
And the day before the conference began, I visited the host school.
00:31:01
Speaker
And when I got there, they said, hey, we talked to our fifth graders.
00:31:03
Speaker
And so I was remembering those kids in Connecticut.
00:31:06
Speaker
And so I asked those fifth graders if they thought we could solve the problems in the world.
00:31:10
Speaker
And every hand flew up in the air immediately.
00:31:13
Speaker
And what was different was that their teacher was teaching them about those problems in age-appropriate ways, specifically environmental problems, and was engaging them and solving them.
00:31:25
Speaker
Those kids knew problems could be solved because they were learning to be solutionaries.
00:31:30
Speaker
So this is just driving home the point that you made, that when you learn, but you are invited and mentored to take good action, and you do so collaboratively, and you see those positive impacts, then as Greta Thunberg said, hope is everywhere.
00:31:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:52
Speaker
And something I really wanted to make sure that we got to is the fact that you are doing the work.
00:31:59
Speaker
And we alluded to this earlier in regards to Maine.
00:32:01
Speaker
And I know that you've implemented this program around the country.
00:32:05
Speaker
But I was reading through the announcement that you made about the Institute of Humane Education, the micro-tentrallying work happening in Maine at a variety of different schools.
00:32:13
Speaker
It's not just like three schools.
00:32:15
Speaker
It's seemingly the entire state of Maine.
00:32:19
Speaker
Could you dive a little bit more into what that program looks like and what that means for the future of the work that you're doing?
00:32:25
Speaker
Sure.
00:32:26
Speaker
So we've partnered with the Department of Education in the state of Maine.
00:32:30
Speaker
And by the end of this calendar year, we...
00:32:36
Speaker
will have trained a couple hundred Maine teachers.
00:32:41
Speaker
And those Maine teachers are working in every county in our state.
00:32:46
Speaker
So that's really exciting.
00:32:48
Speaker
And Maine is our home state, but we're also on six continents.
Global Expansion and Educational Integration
00:32:54
Speaker
And
00:32:55
Speaker
in more than two dozen countries.
00:32:57
Speaker
So we have trained about 40 teachers so far in Kenya, and we will probably have trained about 120 by the end of the school year in Africa.
00:33:10
Speaker
And we have a huge program that we're implementing in Mexico and in Central and South America.
00:33:16
Speaker
We just started offering our solutionary micro-credential in Spanish.
00:33:21
Speaker
We, you know, we're in Europe, we're in Asia, and we're across the United States.
00:33:26
Speaker
So I think the reason why we are expanding so much and so much since we last talked is because this kind of education works and it is non-polarizing.
00:33:41
Speaker
So I think that's really important.
00:33:44
Speaker
You know, the solutionary...
00:33:47
Speaker
framework and a solutionary mindset asks us to avoid either or thinking and us versus them thinking.
00:33:57
Speaker
So rather than the debate format where you're given one side or the other that you're supposed to argue about and win the debate, the solutionary framework is saying, what's the underlying problem within that debate topic?
00:34:13
Speaker
And
00:34:14
Speaker
How can we identify that problem together?
00:34:17
Speaker
And how can we learn from a variety of different perspectives and find a place where we can agree and solve this problem?
00:34:26
Speaker
And so it's really like an antidote to polarization in addition to being good education.
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:34
Speaker
I mean, it's really wonderful to see that work in action.
00:34:38
Speaker
And it's honestly just incredible that you've been able to gain traction so quickly and be adopted, especially in public education, which has historically been a little slow to adopt curriculums or changes.
00:34:50
Speaker
Something that has always been a big pet peeve of mine as a social studies educator was always that idea of framing things that we know to be true in an argumentative format in order to make an education of it.
00:35:02
Speaker
So like a really common would be like, is climate change real?
00:35:06
Speaker
Yes or no?
00:35:07
Speaker
Or is it impacting our environment?
00:35:08
Speaker
Yes or no?
00:35:09
Speaker
It's like, well, no, we know it's real.
00:35:11
Speaker
Like, this is not a scientific hypothetical.
00:35:13
Speaker
It is a real concept.
00:35:15
Speaker
So instead, let's make the action item.
00:35:17
Speaker
Well, what steps can we take right now to fix that as you're mentioning?
00:35:21
Speaker
And
00:35:22
Speaker
There's something to be said about how this framework leans into other elements of what we would call like a progressive education.
00:35:30
Speaker
It leans into project-based learning.
00:35:32
Speaker
It leans into place-based learning, being involved in that space.
00:35:35
Speaker
It leans into restorative justice.
00:35:37
Speaker
Even the process of like figuring out who the folks are and like having people name their harms, all that kind of stuff is the exact same thing you would also do from a quote unquote discipline standpoint and restorative justice.
00:35:49
Speaker
Where do you see the solutionary framework moving toward when it comes to pedagogy?
00:35:56
Speaker
So it's a framework when it comes to curriculum, but I also would imagine it would shift the pedagogical components of how the classroom operates.
00:36:03
Speaker
What does that look like?
00:36:04
Speaker
So it depends on the teacher.
00:36:06
Speaker
It depends on the school.
00:36:08
Speaker
It depends on how much flexibility the teacher has, the age of the students.
00:36:13
Speaker
So in my ideal world, students would be able to choose the problem that they want to address.
00:36:22
Speaker
And there would be a variety of different groups in a classroom with different problems.
00:36:27
Speaker
That can be really hard for a teacher to manage and also for a teacher to fit into, let's say they're a science teacher, but the students want to address a social justice issue or they want to address an animal protection issue.
00:36:42
Speaker
Like maybe it doesn't fit.
00:36:44
Speaker
Same thing can happen if it's a social studies teacher and the students want to address a science question.
00:36:49
Speaker
So sometimes what happens is that it has to morph to fit the classroom.
00:36:58
Speaker
But in the ideal scenario, the teacher is the mentor to the students.
00:37:05
Speaker
They're alongside the students in the process of the students going through those phases.
00:37:10
Speaker
So the students identifying the problem, the teacher's helping them, the teacher's asking them questions, you know, are you sure it's a problem?
00:37:17
Speaker
How can we tell if it's a problem?
00:37:18
Speaker
You know, the
00:37:19
Speaker
And I brought that up earlier.
00:37:22
Speaker
And the example that this one student in Maine discovered was his problem was that immigrants were taking jobs away from Mainers.
00:37:34
Speaker
And what he realized through his investigation is that wasn't actually happening.
00:37:39
Speaker
That what he thought was a problem wasn't a problem in Maine.
00:37:43
Speaker
You know, it might be a problem somewhere else, but it wasn't happening in Maine where he was addressing this.
00:37:48
Speaker
And so he was like,
00:37:50
Speaker
it was a really important thing for him to learn.
00:37:53
Speaker
Oh, what is the actual problem?
00:37:55
Speaker
So at any rate, the teachers alongside the student, the students doing that work, then the students are doing the investigative work.
00:38:03
Speaker
So they're cultivating critical thinking, systems thinking, strategic thinking, and creative thinking in this solutionary framework.
00:38:12
Speaker
And that requires...
00:38:15
Speaker
learning how to be a really careful investigator, learning to be able to discern fact from opinion, what's a reliable source, what's not a reliable source, all those important critical thinking activities happen.
00:38:29
Speaker
And
00:38:30
Speaker
So again, the teacher is guiding that process and mentoring that process, not even guiding, mentoring that process for the students.
00:38:40
Speaker
And then the leverage points, the students are really deeply working with systems thinking.
00:38:46
Speaker
And then implementation is action, which doesn't happen all that much in schools.
00:38:51
Speaker
And what's different, I mean, solutionary
00:38:55
Speaker
The solutionary framework overlays beautifully on project and problem-based learning.
00:39:00
Speaker
It's different from them because you don't start with a project.
00:39:03
Speaker
You start with this problem that you're seeing in the world.
00:39:10
Speaker
So I think, have I answered that question?
00:39:14
Speaker
I think so.
00:39:15
Speaker
I think it kind of gets to the heart of the idea of
00:39:17
Speaker
like design thinking, liberatory design thinking, et cetera, in many ways, from my view, you are offering the content and curriculum apparatus to actually do those pedagogical concepts.
00:39:30
Speaker
Because the number one issue we run into, because we're a progressive education organization, and what we tend to do is we tend to work with schools to promote design thinking, as well as a variety of different systemic changes in order to support that change to it happening.
00:39:43
Speaker
But that's very difficult to do if you don't have the curriculum or the content or the ideas to support it.
00:39:50
Speaker
Otherwise, you have all of this really crappy curriculum.
00:39:54
Speaker
And you're like, well, how can I make the Pythagorean theorem into a really interesting project with kids?
00:39:59
Speaker
It's like, well, the answer is you don't.
00:40:01
Speaker
You actually find something really interesting and hope that it fits in later because that's just the only way it's going to work.
00:40:07
Speaker
So
Getting Involved with Humane Education
00:40:08
Speaker
I just appreciate the fact that the book has
00:40:11
Speaker
loads of examples in it by itself, let alone all of the resources on your website, et cetera.
00:40:17
Speaker
And we're actually designing curriculum right now.
00:40:20
Speaker
We just piloted a curriculum on food waste, but it's a choose your own adventure curriculum.
00:40:25
Speaker
So we're looking to do that on a variety of different topics.
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:31
Speaker
And let's talk then about folks that want to get involved.
00:40:34
Speaker
So there's folks that are listening.
00:40:35
Speaker
Earlier, you mentioned there's a recorded webinar, but I know that you have a bunch of stuff going on.
00:40:39
Speaker
Could you walk us through how folks can get involved?
00:40:42
Speaker
Is it free?
00:40:43
Speaker
What if they want their school to get involved?
00:40:45
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:40:46
Speaker
So lots of things are free on our website, humaneeducation.org.
00:40:50
Speaker
We have free downloadable resources.
00:40:53
Speaker
We have our circle community.
00:40:55
Speaker
So if you sign up, you can also be part of circle.
00:40:57
Speaker
And we have a variety of different gatherings.
00:41:00
Speaker
webinars, talks, people can come together, they can create their own circle conversation and bring people together on the platform.
00:41:08
Speaker
So all of that is free.
00:41:11
Speaker
We have a solution sharing micro credential program.
00:41:14
Speaker
It's not free.
00:41:16
Speaker
And we
00:41:18
Speaker
We don't exclude anybody from it.
00:41:21
Speaker
So for those who can't afford it, it's free.
00:41:24
Speaker
But a school that has professional development funds, we ask them to pay for it.
00:41:30
Speaker
So that's how we're offering it in Africa is because we're charging those who can afford it and we're providing it free for those who can't.
00:41:39
Speaker
And we also have an online graduate program with Antioch University.
00:41:43
Speaker
We have an MED program.
00:41:45
Speaker
We have an EDD, specializing in humane education.
00:41:49
Speaker
And I haven't really defined humane education, but it's education that explores the interconnections of human rights, environmental sustainability, and animal protection with the goal of educating others to be solutionaries.
00:42:01
Speaker
So we have these graduate programs.
00:42:03
Speaker
We also have a graduate certificate, again, online through Antioch University.
00:42:08
Speaker
So it's really soup to nuts, right?
00:42:11
Speaker
You can enter, get what you need free, but you can also
00:42:16
Speaker
get a doctorate in education focusing on this.
00:42:22
Speaker
Thank you again for listening to our podcast at Human Restoration Project.
00:42:25
Speaker
I hope this conversation leaves you inspired and ready to start making change.
00:42:29
Speaker
If you enjoyed listening, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast player.
00:42:33
Speaker
Plus, find a whole host of free resources, writings, and other podcasts all for free on our website, humanrestorationproject.org.
00:42:40
Speaker
Thank you.