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E007 Virginia Douglas
2.9k Plays6 years ago
The case of Virginia Douglas is an odd one. Not only do we not know where she is nor what happened to her, we don't even know from which town she disappeared. Her husband, Frank, it seems, was the only one who could provide the truth. Unfortunately, he could also have been the very one trying to hide it from the world.
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Transcript
Fear of Partner Violence
00:00:01
Speaker
Many of us have the fear. You know the one I'm talking about. It's the fear that makes you peer out the shower curtain into the bathroom because you're worried that someone has snuck in to hurt you while the hot water streamed down your head and thundered in your ears. It's the tingling notion that some stranger might hurt you as you walk the mere 15 yards from your car to your home.
00:00:27
Speaker
What we often don't think about is a different kind of fear that our partner, not a stranger, might harm us.
CDC Report on Domestic Violence
00:00:39
Speaker
See, we've been trained to think that dangers from the outside world, and don't get me wrong, it is dangerous. But surprisingly, the odds are much greater for the other kind of fear, the one we are less likely to feel.
00:00:57
Speaker
In fact, according to an article published in the Atlantic on July 20th, 2017, a report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revealed that greater than half of the women in America who are murdered do not die staring into the eyes of a stranger, but into the eyes of her current or former significant other.
00:01:24
Speaker
While the stranger tales are the ones we likely hear in a lot of new stories and are played out on the movie screen, the fear is perpetuated by something after all. That same study by the CDC revealed that only 16% of all female homicides are committed by strangers.
Frustrations with Loved Ones
00:01:45
Speaker
A rate only slightly higher than homicides committed by parents of their children.
00:01:54
Speaker
After all frustrations rise higher with those we care most about. It seems that some partners take till death do us part far too literally as could be true in our case today and anger, rage, murder, they unfortunately do not discriminate by age.
Case of Virginia Douglas
00:02:19
Speaker
This is a story of 69-year-old Virginia Douglas.
Podcast Introduction
00:03:00
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams and my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
00:03:17
Speaker
So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
Giveaway Announcement
00:03:38
Speaker
So great news before we start our show today. We want to remind all of you listeners to get in on the action. We have a giveaway. Now Maggie and I have been begged since the holidays threw a few of us a bit off track to push back the giveaway to allow more people to enter.
00:03:58
Speaker
And of course, our goal is to always make you happy, so we obliged, but only for one more week. For all our listeners, if you haven't already, follow us on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, or on Instagram, at Coffee Cases podcast. There'll be a post, you need to tag three friends in the post who you think would enjoy our podcast. You can also get additional entries if you rate our show on your favorite podcasting app and give us a written review, you would be our favorite.
00:04:27
Speaker
You'll be entered in a contest to win a free Coffee and Cases t-shirt. So, my Sleuthhounds, you will have this week to share and rate the show. On our next episode, we will announce the winner. Be listening to our episode next week as well. If you hear your name, send us an email to Coffee and Cases podcast at gmail.com with your address and your size and your shirt will be on the way.
Virginia and Frank's Marriage
00:04:58
Speaker
Now, for our case today, Maggie, those fears I mentioned in the intro to our show, the ones you don't think about and don't want to think about, could be what came to fruition on September 2nd, 1988 for Virginia Douglas. You see, in 1988, 69-year-old Virginia and her 70-year-old husband Frank had been married for 46 years.
00:05:26
Speaker
This was not a new relationship, but one that had grown over decades. Decades that produced, from what I could glean from records, three children and was rooted in the town of Lexington, Massachusetts at the house number 220 on Fallen Road.
00:05:45
Speaker
As is typical with most any couple, they had their arguments. We all do. Truth. I do love Anthony a lot though. I love Rodney too. But, I mean, all couples are gonna have arguments.
00:05:58
Speaker
And just the day before, on September 1st, the couple had been bickering about something. Usually we forget why, right?
Spontaneous Trip to Bar Harbor
00:06:07
Speaker
True. Yes. Which is why, according to Frank, he felt they needed to do something fun. Something spontaneous. Something more akin to the actions of younger people. And take a weekend trip to Bar Harbor, Maine.
00:06:21
Speaker
Now, being from Kentucky, I was not familiar with Bar Harbor. I'd never even... No, I don't know. Didn't know that was a place. Yeah, heard of it. The pictures, as we'll post on our Facebook page though, are of this beautiful coastal town with sandy beaches fronting the Atlantic Ocean on one side and cupped by mountains in the Acadia National Forest on the other.
00:06:45
Speaker
Well, that just sounds like a postcard picture. It looks like one when you see this picture. So it's easy to see why this had been their destination. Unfortunately, neither Frank nor Virginia made it there.
00:07:02
Speaker
The drive from Lexington, Massachusetts to Bar Harbor, Maine is nearly five hours. So, since Frank reported that they left for this spur-of-the-moment trip at 8.30 p.m., it made sense that their dark blue 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass pulled into the hotel in South Portland, Maine at around 10.30 p.m. to stop for the night, getting about half of the trip under their belt.
00:07:25
Speaker
This is weird to me that they left at 8.30. Anthony and I are early morning people when we are going on a trip. So we're waking up at like 4 a.m., 5 a.m. just to get on the road. Oh yeah, Rodney and I do the same thing. I would so much rather sleep and then just get up early and get all the drive over with and I'm gonna get to that 8.30 p.m. leave time a little bit later.
00:07:47
Speaker
We don't know much about what happened in the meantime, but the next stop the couple made was in a small town in Belfast, Maine, about a two-hour drive from the hotel where they'd stayed the night and only a little over an hour away still from their final destination of Bar Harbor. It was there, in Belfast, that Police Chief Robert Keating walked into Renny's, a local department store, at 5.30 p
Virginia's Disappearance
00:08:11
Speaker
.m. to begin his investigation into reports of a missing woman.
00:08:16
Speaker
Now, just like Bar Harbor, Maggie and I also do not have a Rennie's department store around us. And so I had to look it up. And from what it looks like, it's this store specific to Maine, but it's kind of like a general merchandise kind of store. And when I kept reading about it, I kept saying department store. So I kept thinking something like Macy's. Exactly. Something where you can buy like a bedding and clothing, but that is not what this store is like.
00:08:46
Speaker
Instead it's much more of like an all-purpose like Walmart Kmart type of store where you can get like everything from electric blankets to potato chips, toilet paper, sweatshirts. So Maine's version of Walmart. Exactly. Now you might wonder how someone could go missing in a small town like Belfast. A place with, if you look up the most recent census data, has a population of around only about 7,000 people.
00:09:17
Speaker
But that's exactly what Frank told police, that his wife had gone missing. He said that on the drive, Virginia had needed to use the bathroom.
00:09:31
Speaker
And he said, and I admit this is totally something that a spouse would know about you because it's something that would seem quirky to everybody else on the surface, but that Virginia did not like to use restaurant bathrooms. She preferred to use department store bathrooms because she felt like they were cleaner.
00:09:49
Speaker
Listen, if I have to go and I have to go bad, I don't care where I pee as long as it's in a bathroom. Right. And you know, I think I'm the opposite of Virginia because I feel bad even if I go into a restaurant to use the bathroom without buying food while I'm in there. Yeah. So I would definitely not want to go into a department store because then I'd feel like obligated and that feeling of obligation would just be too much for me.
00:10:12
Speaker
I prefer gas station bathrooms on trips. Don't go to rest stops because that's where you get murdered. So I don't pee there, especially if I'm by myself. Yeah. But this is why he explained to police that they had stopped at Renny's in the strip mall where it was located and not in the more convenient McDonald's that was right on the main road. Frank said that Virginia left her purse with him in the car and had gone into Renny's for the bathroom break and to shop briefly. Now,
00:10:42
Speaker
Don't know if you caught that inconsistency Maggie, but red flags are already going off in my head because it seems to me that if you are going to go to shop briefly, perhaps you might need your wallet. You might need something like your purse to do that. So already as I was reading through this, I was like, Frank, she left her purse, but she was not only going to go into use the bathroom, but to shop. I mean, I would definitely want to have my wallet if that's what my plan was to do.
00:11:14
Speaker
but let's just give her the benefit of the doubt. She had her cash in her pocket. Yeah she could have had cash on her. Maybe she just wanted to look around see what they had to offer and then if she saw something worth getting she would come and get Frank and then they would go purchase it. I mean I've totally done like nonsensical things like that before so I really can't fully take it as proof of foul play because I've done some pretty dumb stuff.
00:11:39
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, I've gone all the way to Walmart. True story, all the way to Walmart, completely checked out with a basket full of groceries, went to pay, left both my debit card and credit card at the house. Just so you guys know, if that happens, Walmart will hold your cart for like so many minutes so that you can go home to get your debit card or whatever. Thanks, Walmart. That's not even a paid promotion. Thank you, Walmart.
Frank's Suspicious Actions
00:12:05
Speaker
You're welcome, Walmart.
00:12:08
Speaker
But when Virginia didn't return though, that's when Frank said he realized there was a problem. He said, you know what? It doesn't take this long to use a bathroom even if you're going to shop around. I thought you were going to say even if you're a man.
00:12:26
Speaker
I think they should take longer in the bathroom sometimes. They tend to play on their phone a lot more, I feel like, when they go to the bathroom. We just get in, get out, do the business, done. I've got things to do. Right, I know. Well, Frank said that he started to get worried about her. So he said he went into the store and he began asking people if they had seen his wife. No one had.
00:12:51
Speaker
Was he just showing a picture? Or was he describing what she looks like? And so nobody had seen her. They were like, you know, I haven't seen anybody who looks like that. And then he said that he searched the parking lot and started asking people in the parking lot, did you see this woman come out? This woman who looks like this, here's what she's wearing. And no one had seen her there either. It's a lot of walking for a 70 year old man. I mean, true. But if he were truly worried,
00:13:20
Speaker
then it would make sense that he would go in and start asking questions. Eventually, Frank called the police to have them help search for her as well. Frank and the police together walked around the store asking workers, asking shoppers, if any of them had seen the five foot two, 110 pound woman with white hair and blue eyes,
00:13:44
Speaker
wearing a blue blouse and a blue skirt, white sneakers, and nice jewelry. She was tiny. She was. And she was just this precious looking little lady. And we'll post a picture of her on our Facebook page. And the thing is, this whole scenario was, after all, stupefying. How can you walk into a store and just disappear? Never to walk out.
00:14:12
Speaker
Not a single witness in the shopping center saw her.
00:14:16
Speaker
This is why I tell Anthony when I go places, if I'm not back in five minutes, something's happened. Come look for me. Don't make several moments. Five minutes, come look for me. If I'm in the grocery store with my child, I'm like, okay, I need to be able to see you at all times because if you walk away for too long, I'm gonna start to get, even if she's in school, and I don't see her for a few minutes, I'm like, where is she? But I totally get it, but this is a small town.
00:14:45
Speaker
Things like this don't happen here. According to an article by the United Press International, published on September 5, 1988, just a few short days after the incident, police chief Robert Keating stated, quote, we talked to employees and some people think they saw a woman fitting her description, but no one has positively confirmed seeing her, end quote.
00:15:12
Speaker
It was when the police began questioning some of the workers that some odd details came to light. It was then that Frank informed police that before they had gotten there, right before the police had arrived, he had made a few purchases for Virginia.
00:15:31
Speaker
So he's paused his searching for his wife to buy a few things for her, Maggie. He had paused his search in order to purchase some lingerie in her size. Literally in the same conversation that he was telling the clerk that his wife was missing. Okay. Again, I wish you could see my face because
00:15:57
Speaker
Hold up, my wife is missing, but let me go. Stop at this lingerie store and pick her up a couple things for our trip later on. And then I'll get back to looking for her, even though I got no idea where she is. Right, and that's kind of what he did. So he was looking for her, he says. He paused to buy her some lingerie, then he went back to searching. But then, Maggie.
00:16:21
Speaker
He stopped again an hour later to go back into the lingerie store to buy more. Because one is not enough for these 70 year old people. Right, apparently. Okay. He told the sales associate, are you ready for this? No. That he hoped buying the items would be a quote, omen, that Virginia would come back to him.
00:16:45
Speaker
because she's missing and she's gonna be like, oh, my senses just went off. Frank bought me sexy underwear. Radar, radar. Where are you Frank? Oh my goodness, I know it seems comical and that's exactly what he said. And obviously his omen was a false one because she didn't return. But Frank took those purchases and he placed them inside Virginia's suitcase that they had packed for this trip.
00:17:15
Speaker
Other than the underwear though that Frank had just purchased, no other undergarments were in Virginia's suitcase. Virginia girl, what are you going to do on this vacation? Well, I'm going to come back to this. I have a theory.
00:17:32
Speaker
I'll tell you at the end. Now I don't know about you Maggie but again like that seems odd. Well I will tell you one time Rodney and I were going to go on vacation just a weekend trip and I had packed all of our bags for us to go
00:17:48
Speaker
and he had gotten home from work that next morning. We were just gonna leave as soon as he got home from work and so I had everything packed the night before he got home. I was so excited for the trip. I was like, okay, I got our coffee ready. I made us breakfast, this breakfast sandwich. Let's grab it. Let's go. We get in the car. We're driving. We're like, I don't know, two hours into a three-hour trip and I looked at him and I was like,
00:18:15
Speaker
Did you grab the suitcase that was in the bedroom floor? And he said, no. Did you grab it? And I was like, nope.
Family's Observations
00:18:25
Speaker
And so we had to go to Walmart and buy, we're back to Walmart. We had to go to Walmart and buy two brushes and underwear and
00:18:34
Speaker
other shirts and everything we needed. So Anthony and I did that on Christmas, but I had a cousin, I have a cousin, that when she was little and she would spend summer with, not all summer, but part of the summer with my grandma, who we call Mammy, she never packed underwear when she came to my Mammy's house.
00:18:54
Speaker
Really? But I mean she was small. Okay. And it's because my Mammy would take her to like this local store that was called the Dime Store because everything was cheap there and buy her like those cute little girl panties that had the lace on the back you know. Oh yeah. And so she would say she always left her underwear at home so Mammy would buy her pretty panties. That's what she called them.
00:19:13
Speaker
Well, maybe Virginia wanted some pretty panties. Maybe she wanted something. That's what she wanted Frank to get her. Right? And that's the thing too. If it is something like that, okay, we can explain away his behavior. But if you're packing a whole suitcase, if she did pack it with her clothes in it,
00:19:35
Speaker
I'm not gonna pack everything else but forget, as an adult, my underwear. Oh, when I go on vacation, I'm like, oh, I'm gone five days, let me pack 15 pairs of underwear. Right, let's pack some extra. Now, while there are some oddities with this case, what was missing was any evidence that could point to her whereabouts.
00:19:56
Speaker
Even as recently as an article in 2015 in the Bangor Daily News written by Christopher Burns, current Belfast police chief Michael McFadden said that he couldn't think of a single other case before or after this one, Maggie, where someone had gone missing in this small town. He said, and I quote, people just don't go missing in Belfast, end quote.
00:20:25
Speaker
In the couple of days after the disappearance, Virginia and Frank's son arrived to help distribute flyers with his mother's picture on them in hopes of her safe return. Frank even left the dark blue cutlass sitting in the parking lot in case she came back so she would know that he was still there looking for her. Well, that's a good idea. She would know he didn't leave. Right, and that seems like a good husband move right there, but it seems
00:20:55
Speaker
his concern was a bit short-lived. Once that Labor Day weekend was over, which was the point of the trip, Frank left Belfast, Maine in his blue cutlass with Massachusetts R180 license plate fading away and he never returned.
00:21:20
Speaker
So he said, peace out, Boy Scout. This weekend's over. That really gets to me. So you're so worried about your wife that you leave after the weekend is over and you never come back? You never come back to look for her? If this happened to me and I died and Anthony left two days or three days after I went disappearing, I would haunt him.
00:21:43
Speaker
People are like, if I'm dead, I'm coming after you. You left me, I'm watching you. Better watch out Anthony. She's already made her claim. And it's not only that, but according to another article in the Bangor Daily News by Walter Griffin, Officer Weaver, who was heavily involved in the case, he reported that, quote, in all the years since
00:22:10
Speaker
He, meaning Frank, has never contacted us other than to call to tell me he was back in Massachusetts after he left here. Frank, you ain't looking good.
00:22:23
Speaker
So that does not seem, you would, even an inkling of concern, you would be calling the police. First of all, I wouldn't leave. Right, and if I did, I would call daily, probably multiple times a day. Right, I mean, I would probably end up losing my job because I would be like, I can't go back to work. My husband isn't found. Yeah, I have to find my husband. Right, I have to stay here. He is more important to me and crucial to me than- My job, my, anything. Right, so you give all that up, but Frank didn't.
00:22:53
Speaker
I would think that if you had no idea what happened to her, right? No idea what happened to Virginia, that your lack of knowledge and lack of closure would keep you searching and certainly longer than two days before you pack up your things and in essence say, well, guess she's not coming back. I may as well just go on back home, right? Like I tell Anthony,
00:23:21
Speaker
that when we're old and like a hundred and it's time to die, I get to die first. Cause I don't want to be by myself. So I can only imagine if something happened to him, I would never leave. Like we said, I would look every day forever. But Maggie, it wasn't just in Maine that authorities were searching for Virginia Douglas.
Evidence at Virginia's Home
00:23:43
Speaker
They were also looking in her hometown of Lexington, Massachusetts, and what they found there made them question everything, including if Virginia was even in Belfast, Maine, or had even made any part of the road trip along with Frank.
00:24:04
Speaker
One of Virginia and Frank's daughters was living at home with them in Lexington, Massachusetts and had come home that day on September 2nd to an empty house. Her parents were just gone and there was something that she saw that made her know she should immediately contact authorities.
00:24:25
Speaker
The police have still not revealed all of what was collected from Virginia and Frank's home, nor what their daughter said to them in her conversation. Again, this investigation is still ongoing and we get it.
00:24:38
Speaker
but we do know that they collected a blood-stained piece of carpet as well as, and this is according to that same Walter Griffin article, quote, clumps of human hair from the back steps. Ew! The Charlie Project website clarified that the blood on the carpet was positively identified as Virginia's.
00:25:01
Speaker
and they said that the hair was found quote under a doorstep so I don't really know if it was on the back steps or under the steps but regardless her hair was ripped out of her head yes and nothing that I read said about anything about how much blood was on the carpet but I would guess if they're cutting out pieces it would at least be not a drop
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, it would be significant. Right. And nothing that I read either said how much hair it quote equates to clumps. But it's not like one or two strands. A clump is lying. Yes, it's a lot. Yeah, I would think and I couldn't find anything about whether clumps were like matted clumps or mounds like if you had gotten a haircut. But to me the word clump
00:25:48
Speaker
It kind of implies a compacted mass of hair, which makes me picture in my mind this blood-soaked hair. Yeah, I definitely picture someone's scalp still attached to the end of the hair. I don't know if that's really true. Maybe when you have to cut out your little one, you have to cut out gum out of your hair. Maybe that type of look. But again, compacted or matted. Or you clean out your hairbrush. But even without those pieces of evidence,
00:26:16
Speaker
The family volunteered even more information that would lead police to understand that Virginia had likely met with foul play.
00:26:27
Speaker
The first thing that the family members noticed was that the blinds to the house were open and they knew that Virginia was meticulous about the blinds. Anytime they were planning on being gone she would close the blinds to the house not wanting prying eyes peeking in while they were away. I mean obviously I don't want prying eyes peeking in on me anytime so I totally understand that but
00:26:50
Speaker
I feel like in today's world that that would just be a signal for someone that you're not home. It's kind of like have you ever heard Maggie that if you're going to go on vacation or out of town not to post about it on social media until after you get back because otherwise it's just like an announcement to the world. You can rob by place in peace. Yeah. It'll be okay. No one will know. Right. Well the second thing that the family had noticed was the fridge.
00:27:17
Speaker
Now I said just a second ago that Virginia was meticulous when they would go on vacation.
Virginia's Unusual Habits
00:27:22
Speaker
The Charlie Project website specified that that adjective, meticulous, was applicable to Virginia, not just because of the blinds, but also because whenever she knew that they were gonna be gone, even if it was just for a few short days, she would only scantily buy groceries, just whatever they were gonna eat until they were leaving for their trip, and she would go ahead and clean out the fridge of anything that was spoiled in the meantime. I do that.
00:27:47
Speaker
oh I need to take a page from your old book then because I don't I mean I might buy fewer groceries but I definitely don't clean out the fridge and so I come back and everything's nasty and then I feel like well I do it because I don't want things to mold in there and then I feel like I have to throw away all my containers so well and that's exactly how Virginia was but what her family saw
00:28:15
Speaker
was a fully stocked fridge. And when they saw that Maggie they knew that is not like Virginia. And the final clue that something was amiss
00:28:27
Speaker
was what was, again, according to The Charlie Project, supposed to happen just an hour after Frank and Virginia had supposedly left their home that night of September 2nd. Remember, Frank reported that they left at 8.30 p.m. for this spontaneous trip because they stopped a little less than two hours later to stay the night. Because you left at 8.30 p.m., you're gonna have to sleep. Yes. Well, at 9.30 that same night,
00:28:56
Speaker
one of Frank and Virginia's children was supposed to arrive to stay with them. Okay. So one, I thought it was weird that you didn't tell your kid that lives with you, that you're going out of town and you're 70. Two, not that that's bad that you're 70. I mean, I just feel like you would tell your kids. You'd be more responsible. Yeah. Two, you're going to leave
00:29:20
Speaker
when your other kid is coming to stay with you. Coming specifically to see you. And so by them leaving for this quote unquote spontaneous trip, that would mean that neither one of them would be home to greet their child.
00:29:34
Speaker
The family said, just as they did when confronted with the other details, this is not Virginia to know that her child was coming to visit, to have been so excited about that as she likely was, and then to just leave. And to leave without, as Maggie you said, without letting her child know the one who lives there, where they were going, or the one who was visiting that they wouldn't be there when their child arrived.
00:30:04
Speaker
So if Virginia were gone, where is she? Either physically, where had she gone, if of her own accord? Or if murdered, where was her body? And Maggie, we still don't know. We don't know? No. According to the United Press International article, we know that police have searched the woods near the shopping plaza in Maine the week after her disappearance, but they found nothing.
00:30:35
Speaker
We know that still no witnesses have come forward with knowledge of her whereabouts. Any time remains are found, either in the area around Rennies, or near Lexington, Massachusetts, where Frank and Virginia work from, or even somewhere along the path that Frank said they drove on that trip, hope rises, that those remains will be identified as Virginia. But so far, nothing.
00:31:00
Speaker
No, nothing. Nothing. Nothing but the clumps of hair. That's it. The bloodstained carpet and the clumps of hair. And that is it. Now we are aware from the October 31st, 2015 Bangor Daily News article that Frank and Virginia's children held a memorial service for her in November of 1988. Frank did not attend.
00:31:28
Speaker
While Frank had continued to deny any involvement and to maintain his innocence from the time of her disappearance until his death several years later and there wasn't conclusive evidence to ever charge him with the crime, the Charlie Project website does tell us
00:31:47
Speaker
that two of their three children refused to speak to Frank after their mother disappeared and think that he was somehow, even if not directly, involved. Well, yeah.
Family's Suspicions
00:32:01
Speaker
I don't, again, you leave after a couple of days. You never come back to look for her. Never call. You don't attend the memorial service. Like none of those add up to loving husband. No, very shady. And I get, like, just because he's not a loving husband doesn't necessarily mean that he could be a murderer. It just doesn't look good. Right. We're not...
00:32:25
Speaker
Sentencing Frank. We're just saying, you don't look the best. And their oldest daughter, Marilyn Wilson, said to the Bangor Daily News, quote, we know that our mother is not alive and that she is not going to be found. We are unable to do her the honor of giving her a dignified funeral. So we're doing the next best thing. Hopefully it will be part of the healing process, end quote.
00:32:54
Speaker
She then indicated that she and other family members believed that Virginia was murdered.
00:33:00
Speaker
and they also think they know who did it, but that they can't say anything publicly because of, quote, legal reasons. No. If my mommy was murdered and I thought I knew who did it, the first thing I would do is tell the police who it was. I don't care what, quote, legal reasons I had. Well, and I guess that's the thing because, I mean, obviously if there isn't enough evidence to convict someone, can you
00:33:29
Speaker
publicly accuse them because there are slander laws. But you could go to the police and say, hey, I believe maybe you might want to look into this person. They had an issue with my mom. Right. Absolutely. And the police did look into Frank and that's what's so crazy is that there wasn't enough to convict.
00:33:49
Speaker
And obviously it seems like from everything that Mackey and I've talked about with this case that there are indications of Frank's involvement. But those, I mean, they could just be coincidental. You do have to prove, right, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. And after all, Frank Douglas has never been publicly charged with this crime.
Lack of New Leads
00:34:11
Speaker
Unfortunately, this case seems to have lost some momentum, which is why Mackey and I wanted to cover it this week.
00:34:19
Speaker
There were a few, quote unquote, sightings immediately after Virginia's disappearance, but since then, there were no leads or solid information. And those sightings could even be false alarms. Someone seeing someone of the same height, the same build, the same outfit on. Right. They believed it to be her. Ten years after Virginia went missing,
00:34:43
Speaker
A newspaper attempted to follow up on the case to keep it in the public's eye, which is exactly what Maggie and I tried to do. They tried to contact Frank several times for the article. He was 80 at the time, so remember this is 10 years later, and still living in the home that he and Virginia had shared. The phone went to the answering machine every time, and Frank never called back. Now, Maggie.
00:35:13
Speaker
Even though I can't say with confidence, here's why I think the evidence seems to indicate and implicate Frank. Number one, Frank was a retired banker and a New England merchant's bank vice president at that, which means I would think
00:35:35
Speaker
that he would be money savvy. And maybe this is because I'm an English teacher and I like to be much more figurative and creative. I think of math people and money people as very rational. Okay, I had this conversation with a student today. I had bus duty in the morning so I get here really early. So today one of my kids stopped and talked to me for a little while after his bus got off and he was saying he solved a Rubik's cube. Okay,
00:36:04
Speaker
I cannot solve a Rubik's Cube. I've literally watched YouTube videos. I cannot do it. And I think it's because I don't have that mindset. I have an English, an Englishy mindset. I don't have like, what is that? An analytical mindset or something like that? No, I can't do things like that. And here's what I mean. And here's why I'm connecting this to this case. Number one for the rational part.
00:36:29
Speaker
This is, I told you I'd come back to it. Who leaves for a long drive after dark? I hate driving at night. The glare of the headlights, it makes it so hard for me to see. Half the people don't turn their bright lights off. And I'm pretty certain that this is a problem that only gets worse with age. Right. I don't think, I don't like to drive. I'm not even 30 yet at nighttime. No. And I have good eyesight. So who would choose?
Questioning Frank's Actions
00:36:58
Speaker
to drive at night at 8 30. Number two is for the financial element. Who would leave again? I'm going back to the 8 30 at night. Who would leave at 8 30 at night?
00:37:14
Speaker
especially knowing your child's gonna be getting there an hour later, but leave at 8.30 only to have to stop for the night at 10.30 and pay money for a hotel room. When you could just leave the next morning from your own home and save money. Exactly. Because it's only five hours away. It's not that far. I drive to my mom's house, it's three hours away. And that just seems like, I don't know, nonsensical spending.
00:37:40
Speaker
I understand if you have like a 20 hour drive and you're like, okay, I'm gonna get half of it done. I'm gonna drive for 10 hours, stay the night, instead of driving 24 hours straight. But if you only have to drive five hours, I don't know why you wouldn't just leave at like, I don't know, seven in the morning. Because in my thinking,
00:38:03
Speaker
my understanding of this case, they wanted to get to Bar Harbor, at least I would, early in the day to like fully enjoy the weekend. You only have a long weekend anyway and if you could leave your house at 7 a.m. and be in Bar Harbor by noon to enjoy lunch in the rest of the day, I don't understand why that wouldn't be the best scenario. My next question is this and I bet you didn't think about this Maggie and it's related to the timing of everything.
00:38:34
Speaker
I can only assume that they left at 8 30 p.m. and I said this just a second ago on September 2nd because they wanted to already be halfway through the drive to get to Bar Harbor early to fully enjoy the weekend. Okay. So they stayed the night in South Portland and stopped at 10 30 p.m. on September 2nd. Okay.
00:38:55
Speaker
Well Maggie, do you remember what time the police were called to Renny's department store in Belfast, Maine? No. 5 30 p.m. Belfast, Maine or Virginia went missing.
00:39:12
Speaker
is less than two hours away from South Portland, where they had stayed the night. So they left South Portland at a reasonably early time? We assume. Well, you have to, right? Because the checkout's kind of early. You're right. Checkouts for hotels. Okay. What? 11. The latest. Okay. So maybe you grab an early lunch. Okay. So you're out of there by 12.30. You're less than two hours away.
00:39:37
Speaker
So where did all that time go? That is my point. Exactly. If their goal was just a weekend trip to Bar Harbor, why would they have spent a whole day in Belfast, Maine? That's one day wasted when their end destination at that point was only about an hour away. That does not add up to me.
00:40:00
Speaker
I mean, were there like fun things to do in this town, like a museum they wanted to go to? Remember, it's only 7,000 people. Okay, so no. This is a small town. So why would you have spent a whole day when you have limited time anyway? You're an hour away from your end destination. You are wasting time.
00:40:19
Speaker
But the problem is, again, since no convictions were made, even with blood evidence on the carpet of the home and the clumps of hair on the back step, which obviously needs some form of explanation if we're to believe that Virginia was abducted in Belfast, Maine, we have to wonder, was it Frank? Because no convictions have ever been made. No connections to the hair, why it could have been there, anything like that? Not that I have seen in anything.
00:40:49
Speaker
How could there not be enough evidence of her death in the house and signs as to who committed a crime enough to convict unless he didn't do it? But what's odd to me is, so Frank says she was abducted in Belfast, Maine when she went into Renny's department store. But there's no evidence of Virginia there anywhere. No sightings. No sightings.
00:41:15
Speaker
except for the couple who maybe somebody looked like her. Perhaps. In the home in Lexington, Massachusetts, there was the blood on the carpet and the clumps of hair, but again, no convictions were ever made. And I just, I guess I just find it hard to believe that if the murder were committed in the home, there wouldn't be more evidence found in the home, enough to convict.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yeah, there would be more than maybe just like the few spots of blood if she had died in the home. Right. And besides that, Maggie, what kind of psychopath would it take to kill his wife and then pack her suitcase for a pretend trip? I just, this case is baffling me. So much of it does not make sense.
00:42:09
Speaker
there's again that act of like I think of somebody you know taking care of somebody you're packing a suitcase for them as a caring act and so that's why I can't wrap my head around this idea that you were so cuckoo that you were like
00:42:25
Speaker
I just killed my wife. Let me pack her suitcase so I can maybe get away with killing her. Yeah and like why that story if you're gonna make it up. Why not just say that she left or something like that instead of this elaborate story if it is a lie. But you know if we're to believe that Frank is that kind of murderer maybe he realized on the drive that even though he packed her things
00:42:53
Speaker
He forgot to pack her some underwear, which is why he had to stop to buy some, hence the stop at Renny's in Belfast, Maine. And he only admitted to having bought the underwear because police were questioning the sales clerk.
00:43:11
Speaker
I mean, it's still gonna look fishy, though, that that's the only underwear in her suitcase. But if the police hadn't questioned the sales clerk... Oh, I guess he could have just, like, removed the tags or something. Right, they would have never known that that was new underwear and not something that she had packed. But to play devil's advocate, though, if he were that kind of murderer, if he were meticulous enough himself to pack a bag,
00:43:38
Speaker
Why wouldn't he have cleaned up the blood on the carpet? Yeah, threw away the clumps of hair. Right, yeah. Disposed of it less haphazardly than just on the back step or under the back step or wherever it was. So superficially, I think Frank looks kind of sketchy. But then when you really start kind of diving in to the parts of the cases, you're like, maybe it wasn't Frank. Or maybe he was somehow involved
00:44:03
Speaker
but not the sole person involved. Right. And why wouldn't he have waited for a weekend when the kids weren't coming to visit? Yeah. Now it does seem odd though, even if we believe, Frank, that they would decide to just go on a spontaneous trip with him knowing. So that part makes me think, oh, did he forget that the kid was coming to visit?
00:44:24
Speaker
And maybe so that wouldn't have stopped him if he were. So maybe why their kids couldn't say the name of the person that they believed could have been involved was perhaps they were involved in something kind of shady and they didn't want to let the name come out. So Frank kind of covered up for this person to protect his own self and his family maybe. It could be. And the thing is, so he does look guilty.
00:44:52
Speaker
But could it also just be the universe playing some sadistic joke on Frank Douglas and making it look like he committed a heinous crime for which he's truly innocent?
Challenges in Missing Person Cases
00:45:04
Speaker
Sounds like to me, we're never gonna know. We aren't. Walter Griffin's article on the Bangor Daily News tells us that Police Chief Allen Weaver says he thinks of Virginia every time bodies are found, or sadly, when vultures are circling.
00:45:22
Speaker
In fact, in that article, Weaver said of this case, quote, is one of the oddest I've ever encountered. Through all the investigation that's been done, I have never been able to find any clear or precise evidence to lead me to believe she was or was not in Belfast, end quote.
00:45:45
Speaker
For him and for us, the unknown is the hardest part. And unfortunately for Virginia and her family in missing person cases, time is the most critical factor.
00:46:00
Speaker
We know from television shows that the first 48 hours are the golden hours when most cases need to be solved. Because, as more time passes, evidence gets contaminated, crime scenes get disrupted, and memories fade. Not the memories of the missing person's family. Those can seem stronger than ever. But for those who witness someone having to do with a crime or hear snippets of conversation,
00:46:30
Speaker
In fact, searches are still being conducted in both Massachusetts and in Maine for Virginia Douglas. Anyone with any information about this case is asked to call the Maine State Police at 207-624-7143. So, listeners, when we have so much unknown, we tend to turn to the known.
Link to Homicide Statistics
00:47:00
Speaker
We know that Virginia and Frank had argued the night before this impromptu trip. We also know, according to that CDC report on homicide and domestic violence mentioned at the beginning of the episode, that quote, about a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, end quote. And we also know one more thing, that is,
00:47:29
Speaker
If we are courageous enough to admit it, sometimes, my sleuth hounds, the dangers aren't so far away.
Listener Engagement
00:47:39
Speaker
Sometimes they're lying right next to us.
00:47:44
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Case's podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at Case's Coffee, on Instagram, at Coffee Case's podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcast at gmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:48:14
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.