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Ep 104: Writing Letters to Al Pacino with Eric Meunier
49 Plays3 years ago
Eric returns to talk about everything Godfather! It's all here including design from start to finish, easter eggs, and even writing letters to Al Pacino?
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:10
Speaker
With me, my co-host, as always... Scott Larson.
00:00:13
Speaker
We are on episode 104, and it's been an insane two weeks.
00:00:18
Speaker
Like, holy crap.
00:00:20
Speaker
And one of the reasons that it's been insane has to do with our guests that's on this time.
00:00:25
Speaker
But...
00:00:26
Speaker
Before we get to him, if you want a godfather, where are you going to go, Scott?
00:00:31
Speaker
I'm going to call Zach and Nicole Minney at Flippin' Out Pinball, and they will hook you up with all your needs.
00:00:36
Speaker
And you know what?
00:00:37
Speaker
Make them an offer they can't refuse, and they'll send you a game.
00:00:40
Speaker
Definitely.
00:00:41
Speaker
And speaking of godfather and making an offer we couldn't refuse, holy crap.
00:00:47
Speaker
This is his third game out of the gate.
00:00:49
Speaker
He's lit the world on fire.
00:00:51
Speaker
People are very much taking notice at all the stuff he is doing.
00:00:55
Speaker
We have
Game Design Philosophy and Innovations
00:00:56
Speaker
Eric Meniere.
00:00:56
Speaker
How are you doing, Eric?
00:00:57
Speaker
I'm doing great, guys.
00:00:58
Speaker
Thanks for having me back.
00:01:00
Speaker
Always.
00:01:01
Speaker
Well, you were like the... How do I put this?
00:01:06
Speaker
You were our first guest.
00:01:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:09
Speaker
I was going to say.
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:10
Speaker
Don't go there.
00:01:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:15
Speaker
But no, we appreciate you coming on, man.
00:01:17
Speaker
This game looks fantastic.
00:01:19
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:20
Speaker
I'm hearing a lot of wonderful things.
00:01:22
Speaker
They say this is probably the best shooting JJP anyone's seen so far.
00:01:25
Speaker
I've talked to.
00:01:27
Speaker
I love how you guys are getting these out the gate.
00:01:29
Speaker
It's like you show it and next day people are playing this.
00:01:32
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:32
Speaker
We're getting a ton of feedback and people are loving the shots on this game.
00:01:36
Speaker
It's just amazing.
00:01:38
Speaker
It really came together.
00:01:39
Speaker
And part of the thing, part of the way that we build our release is to have games in boxes.
00:01:46
Speaker
And that means having games fully built, developed, vetted with complete code.
00:01:53
Speaker
ready to go.
00:01:53
Speaker
You can play all the modes in the game that are there.
00:01:55
Speaker
You can play kiss the ring.
00:01:57
Speaker
You can play the baptism.
00:01:58
Speaker
You can play honor.
00:01:59
Speaker
Like those are the three wizard modes in the game.
00:02:02
Speaker
They are playable.
00:02:03
Speaker
You get, you can get them.
00:02:04
Speaker
You can get to them on location.
00:02:06
Speaker
Um, now if a location operator has got it set up where the posts are out, you know, it might be a little bit harder to get to, but, uh, you can get to them.
00:02:15
Speaker
You can play them.
00:02:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:17
Speaker
So this is your third game.
00:02:19
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:20
Speaker
So, um,
00:02:22
Speaker
Typically your first two games or so you're feeling the game, you're feeling the design process out.
00:02:29
Speaker
And I know that you, I know that you have, you know, you're a mechanical engineer, you're an electrical engineer, you grew up in a pinball family.
00:02:39
Speaker
So all of those things together, how did you, what did you learn between one and two?
00:02:46
Speaker
And what did you learn between two and three to bring Godfather to, to the show?
00:02:51
Speaker
Well, focusing more, focusing a lot on the buildability and repairability of a game is something that I've always kept as part of my designs.
00:03:04
Speaker
Pirates had a lot of stuff in it.
00:03:07
Speaker
A lot of stuff.
00:03:09
Speaker
And it would take hours more per game to to manufacture a Pirates than it did for Guns N' Roses.
00:03:19
Speaker
Guns N' Roses was easier to assemble.
00:03:21
Speaker
It wasn't necessarily less stuff in it.
00:03:24
Speaker
It was just assemblable in an easier way.
00:03:28
Speaker
And the same can be said for Godfather.
00:03:31
Speaker
you know, refining, using more of the standard parts or a common part that I designed.
00:03:38
Speaker
You know, there's there are three diverters in the game.
00:03:42
Speaker
Two of them are the exact same diverter,
Challenges and Strategic Planning
00:03:45
Speaker
like with the same coil, the same spring, the same brackets.
00:03:49
Speaker
One of them is
00:03:50
Speaker
only has one part difference and it's the top part.
00:03:53
Speaker
But otherwise it's the same coil, same spring, same.
00:03:56
Speaker
That allows us to get parts into the factory a lot faster.
00:04:03
Speaker
There's less things, fewer things to inspect and verify that they are correctly matched to our drawings.
00:04:11
Speaker
And it just makes...
00:04:13
Speaker
The game come together in an easier way when you've kind of established the ground rules that here's a mech and we're just modifying one thing.
00:04:22
Speaker
Otherwise, there's three of them in the game.
00:04:24
Speaker
And here's another mech, the plate.
00:04:29
Speaker
That's the Newton plate that's in the compound area of the Godfather.
00:04:33
Speaker
It's the same exact Mac as the lift ramp mechanism.
00:04:37
Speaker
Just the top plate is cut slightly differently, but otherwise same coil, same release latch, same switch, same wiring, all of that stuff.
00:04:45
Speaker
So it's like they can build those two things at the station.
00:04:49
Speaker
a lot faster than they would build two unique mechs.
00:04:51
Speaker
And you have to train your assembly line, you know, only how to build one mech and you can build one fixture for getting those mechs built.
00:04:59
Speaker
If you are able in your design to use very similar components in more than one spot.
00:05:06
Speaker
What I like that you guys have looked at also that I'd never noticed until I was listening to the featurette on Flippin' Out was just little things like the compound ball.
00:05:17
Speaker
You could get it in there, but what happens when the power goes off and there's a ball stuck back there?
00:05:20
Speaker
I'd never thought of that, and I guess that's just something you guys are constantly...
00:05:24
Speaker
trying to keep an eye out for.
00:05:25
Speaker
And I was like, that would be terrible to get a game on location.
00:05:28
Speaker
And then you can't get the ball out.
00:05:29
Speaker
But right.
00:05:31
Speaker
It was very ingenious how you guys did that, too.
00:05:33
Speaker
Thank you.
00:05:35
Speaker
Being able to.
00:05:38
Speaker
Release a ball whenever we whenever the game wants to is an important thing.
00:05:43
Speaker
If you physically lock a ball somewhere and you're depending upon the player hitting it,
00:05:48
Speaker
Well, what if it's your five-year-old who's playing, you know, and they lock another one in there.
00:05:53
Speaker
Now what?
00:05:54
Speaker
Now you've got two balls stuck in there and you can't do anything about it.
00:05:58
Speaker
So the game has to be able to defend itself from good players and from bad players so that the game plays and does what it's supposed to do every time it gets powered on or every time the start button gets hit.
00:06:15
Speaker
One, how long have you been working on Godfather?
00:06:19
Speaker
I was shooting the Godfather Whitewood November of 2020.
00:06:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:23
Speaker
The first like real down and dirty, you know, I had two flippers and a bunch of rusty sheet metal that I screwed down to a plank of wood.
00:06:33
Speaker
It didn't have the moving, articulating Kappa regime mech in it.
00:06:38
Speaker
And it didn't have the crazy lift ramp auto feeding wire form that had this unique shape, but it had the rough shots.
00:06:50
Speaker
and kind of where targets might be and stuff like that.
00:06:52
Speaker
And the idea is, you know, I think I had like a rubber duck sitting where the capital regime would be.
00:06:58
Speaker
And, you know, idea I had like on written in magic marker,
Immersive Experience and Collaborations
00:07:03
Speaker
like compound area, Newton ball, question mark.
00:07:07
Speaker
You know, would I just have a ball in there that you would kick back and forth?
00:07:10
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, that works.
00:07:12
Speaker
It's been done.
00:07:13
Speaker
I'd rather, you know, figure out how I can put a real ball in there and then get the real ball back out.
00:07:20
Speaker
So it's been a while.
00:07:24
Speaker
And then with COVID never letting go and being in a manufacturing facility, having people dropping like flies every other week, coming back, of course, but being required to be out of the office for 10 days at a minimum, it took a while, especially with
00:07:44
Speaker
manufacturing, getting parts in the doors.
00:07:46
Speaker
I mean, it just seemed like anything that could cause a delay did cause a delay from 2020 to 2022.
00:07:52
Speaker
And I got to say, I'm impressed because we heard rumors probably a month or two ago that Godfather was coming to TPF.
00:08:02
Speaker
And I was just like, that has not been JJP style.
00:08:05
Speaker
Like you guys have always had probably a good 12 months to 18 months between each title.
00:08:10
Speaker
And so there's just no way.
00:08:11
Speaker
And then you guys dropped this last week.
00:08:13
Speaker
And I was like, holy cow.
00:08:15
Speaker
I'm impressed that you guys were able to do that because you're still feeling the effects of COVID as well.
00:08:20
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:08:21
Speaker
I know you can't speak for the company as a whole, but is this the game plan?
00:08:25
Speaker
Because it proves that you guys can do it.
00:08:27
Speaker
I just didn't know.
00:08:28
Speaker
I guess Jack has been touting that you'd be doing it for a while.
00:08:31
Speaker
So it looks like this is the thing going forward, right?
00:08:35
Speaker
The game plan is to release at least two games a year.
00:08:38
Speaker
I mean, game every nine months is the goal, what we're trying to get.
00:08:43
Speaker
But yeah, building the team and getting the people in that we need to get in in order to make things happen.
00:08:55
Speaker
That's part of growing the company.
00:08:59
Speaker
When I started at Jersey Jack,
00:09:02
Speaker
I was one of four people in the Chicagoland office.
00:09:06
Speaker
And now we have well over 100 people employed at Jersey Jack.
00:09:12
Speaker
And it's great.
00:09:13
Speaker
Great, you know, growing with the company.
00:09:17
Speaker
So the other question I have with that too, speaking of hiring people and whatnot, is there a different mentality now down at JJP with bringing everyone in from Jersey?
00:09:26
Speaker
And then Pat Lawler's now gone from what I understand and Richie's now there.
00:09:30
Speaker
I wouldn't say it's a different mentality, but we have a lot less communication gap, right?
00:09:35
Speaker
When I'm able to be out on the line in 10 seconds instead of 10 hours, I'm
00:09:43
Speaker
It makes solving problems and answering questions and making adjustments a lot faster, a lot easier, a lot more robust.
00:09:51
Speaker
I walked through the factory every single day and I'm able to, you know, notice small nuances.
00:09:57
Speaker
Well, something, something doesn't match
Licensing and Aesthetic Features
00:09:59
Speaker
here.
00:09:59
Speaker
You know what, what happened?
00:10:01
Speaker
And I can kind of trace back to the station where it was built and, you know, see like, okay, well, you know, this part is swapped.
00:10:07
Speaker
So they're not assembling it in the right order.
00:10:09
Speaker
Maybe that's how it got out of adjustment.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:12
Speaker
But just being able to be there and provide that feedback loop is helpful.
00:10:18
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:10:20
Speaker
Okay, so we are at a show.
00:10:22
Speaker
I'm walking up to the game.
00:10:23
Speaker
This is my first encounter with Godfather.
00:10:27
Speaker
Walk me through the game.
00:10:28
Speaker
All right, so first, hit the start button and you choose your family.
00:10:33
Speaker
There are five different families to choose from.
00:10:37
Speaker
Choose the one that matches your play style best.
00:10:40
Speaker
Are you someone who focuses on modes and wants to completely blow up mode scoring?
00:10:45
Speaker
You're a very intense single ball player who can really manage the risk reward, the sweaty palms that come when, okay, I'm going to pass.
00:10:54
Speaker
I'm not going to cash out yet.
00:10:55
Speaker
I'm going to do the job objective one more time.
00:10:57
Speaker
I'm going to shoot it back in there.
00:10:58
Speaker
Oh, I still got 20 seconds left on my timer.
00:11:00
Speaker
I think I can do it one more time.
00:11:02
Speaker
All right, now I'm going to crank my weapon multiplier and shoot it in there and get a times 10 super cash out and really blow it away.
00:11:09
Speaker
Or are you a player who revels in multiballs?
00:11:14
Speaker
There's a family who makes multiball ball saves last longer and makes multiball scoring higher.
00:11:22
Speaker
Are you someone who's a much better combo shooter?
00:11:25
Speaker
There's a family that focuses on influence and the rewards that happen with influence.
00:11:30
Speaker
Influence is built by shooting combo shots around the game.
00:11:34
Speaker
Two other families have two different powers that also are slightly different ways of playing the game.
00:11:42
Speaker
Each family has its own drawbacks as well.
00:11:44
Speaker
So maybe I wouldn't open with that.
00:11:47
Speaker
It's probably a lot for just the first, very first thing you do, but pick your family.
00:11:51
Speaker
Look at their abilities.
00:11:52
Speaker
Pick your family.
00:11:53
Speaker
Now you can plunge a ball.
00:11:55
Speaker
You can short plunge into a pop humper.
00:11:57
Speaker
You can mid plunge into the compound area and those will advance.
00:12:01
Speaker
Some multi balls, get you some big points.
00:12:03
Speaker
If you want to go crazy, there are 22 super skill shots that you can choose from.
00:12:09
Speaker
You have to choose it and hit it.
00:12:11
Speaker
You can't just shoot for it and cross your fingers.
00:12:14
Speaker
It's a called shot.
00:12:16
Speaker
It's a called shot.
00:12:16
Speaker
You're going to Babe Ruth it, right?
00:12:19
Speaker
That's where I'm going to go.
00:12:20
Speaker
That's what I'm going to hit.
00:12:21
Speaker
And you can really blow up things.
00:12:23
Speaker
Instead of just advancing you toward a multiball, it'll start the multiball.
00:12:29
Speaker
If you can make that shot.
00:12:30
Speaker
And as a whole, there's groups of them that are valid and have similar rules.
00:12:37
Speaker
And then there's 22 individual ones that all have just crazy things.
00:12:43
Speaker
After you make your skill shot, there are four unique multiballs in the game.
00:12:48
Speaker
I recommend going for Turf 4.
00:12:49
Speaker
That's the easiest one.
00:12:50
Speaker
You can kind of fall into it.
00:12:52
Speaker
You collect ventures.
00:12:53
Speaker
We specifically made the ventures that are available the first time you walk into the game, regardless of the family you pick.
00:12:59
Speaker
They are ventures that are hittable from the lower flippers.
00:13:02
Speaker
Okay?
00:13:04
Speaker
So you can hit those ventures, then you can shoot either orbit and lock balls and you can build your territories.
00:13:10
Speaker
Hitting that bad guy right up the middle will get you some big points and will work you toward another multiball.
00:13:16
Speaker
So flail around, hit the stuff that's blinking on the play field.
00:13:20
Speaker
You'll get into a multiball, you get into turf war and then keep nailing that bad guy up the middle and you'll be able to take out those capos.
00:13:27
Speaker
What was your mindset heading into Godfather and what was your ultimate goal after all that?
00:13:32
Speaker
So there's a lot of people who have very strong memories of the first time they saw Godfather, what it means to them, what that franchise means to them, how important it is in our cinematic history.
00:13:45
Speaker
There's a lot of people who say that The Godfather is the best film ever made.
00:13:51
Speaker
It is a fantastic film because of the mood it sets, because of the drama that is in there.
00:13:57
Speaker
I wanted to be able to capture the
00:14:00
Speaker
the best parts of the Godfather, the most remembered lines, the most remembered scenes and get them into the game, but do it in a way that has the action and the excitement that would keep players vested and interested in the game.
00:14:16
Speaker
It's hard to keep people excited in just a drama
Future Projects and Public Reactions
00:14:21
Speaker
in a movie.
00:14:22
Speaker
That's mostly about dialogue and the influence or interaction between different, very powerful characters.
00:14:29
Speaker
Um,
00:14:30
Speaker
with the underlying tone of violence and action.
00:14:33
Speaker
But the violence and action in Godfather is very sparse, right?
00:14:36
Speaker
There's a couple of very memorable scenes.
00:14:39
Speaker
Most of the movie is about the drama that happens outside of the action.
00:14:44
Speaker
So I wanted to be able to tell a story set in the Godfather universe, which is you're a member of the family of any one of the five families, and you're trying to take over New York City.
00:14:56
Speaker
There are these iconic scenes
00:14:58
Speaker
And we based the modes around the iconic scenes in the movies, but we wanted to come up with bad guys that you were fighting, that you were taking out.
00:15:06
Speaker
Came up with all those different themes from the movie, like something like a turf war where you're expanding your territory.
00:15:13
Speaker
People are attacking your stronghold, your compound, visiting the old country, going to Sicily and seeing the enemies that are hidden there and exploring those regions.
00:15:25
Speaker
And then just being able to
00:15:27
Speaker
kind of take in the ambiance of the big, big scenes like the baptism.
00:15:34
Speaker
How would I portray the baptism in a pinball machine?
00:15:39
Speaker
Well, you have to go and take out the other heads of families.
00:15:42
Speaker
How would I do that?
00:15:43
Speaker
Well, they're going to be protected.
00:15:45
Speaker
So I'm going to build this rule around taking out their bodyguards first, their capo regime is the lieutenants of the family before you can get to this big mode, this baptism mode.
00:15:55
Speaker
But in that mode,
00:15:57
Speaker
showing michael in the church and then showing his lieutenants taking out the other heads of families is something that yeah we can do that we can leverage these assets and show the most iconic scene in in film history in an exciting way i specifically went through that scene time and time and time again to get all the shots captured to get all of the um objectives there you know there's
00:16:27
Speaker
lead up, lead up, lead up this fan, this bad guy gets taken out and then lead up, lead up, lead up, this bad guy gets taken out.
00:16:34
Speaker
And then you hear the priests say, you know, Michael, do you reject Satan?
00:16:39
Speaker
And then boom, another guy gets taken out.
00:16:41
Speaker
And Michael says, yes, I reject him.
00:16:44
Speaker
And then another guy gets taken out.
00:16:46
Speaker
Michael, do you reject all of his, his charms or woe or whatever he says?
00:16:50
Speaker
And then another bad guy gets taken out.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so like following the scene,
00:16:55
Speaker
And pushing that into the gameplay was really a fun thing to do.
00:16:59
Speaker
And I think when people play the mode, they're going to get the same kind of chills I'm getting when I'm talking about it.
00:17:05
Speaker
it's such a great scene i actually sadly i just watched godfather for the first time last weekend and holy crap that scene is amazing yes regardless how you feel about the rest of the film like the juxtaposition between good and evil and that scene alone just and thought of you guys integrating that into the game like as soon as you said that baptism was one of the wizard modes i was like perfect it makes total sense right and it really it really inspired a lot of the artwork from the game
00:17:34
Speaker
I mean, the stained glass window in the center is such this beautiful, iconic artwork piece that I carried that stained glass motif up into the user interface.
00:17:46
Speaker
And it's all because of this scene in the church, right?
00:17:49
Speaker
In the baptism scene where it's extremely powerful.
00:17:54
Speaker
And like you said, the good versus evil in that like four minutes of cinema is so powerful.
00:18:04
Speaker
How did you coordinate the call outs for this game?
00:18:07
Speaker
A long time ago, I wrote the rules concept for the game.
00:18:13
Speaker
With Pirates and with Guns N' Roses, Keith was the guy who wrote the concept of the rules, the concept of the gameplay.
00:18:22
Speaker
For my third game, I came to Keith with a notebook.
00:18:27
Speaker
And I'm like, here's what I want the Godfather to be.
00:18:31
Speaker
He looks at it and he's like,
00:18:33
Speaker
you need to take a step back because this is over the top crazy.
00:18:39
Speaker
I had, I had, you know, these crazy ideas about player versus player interaction and stealing and, you know, taking pirates and going just like to the crazy next level where you were actively taking them out.
00:18:52
Speaker
And, you know, when you take out their lieutenant, do they lose points or they lose balls or they lose a whole bunch of stuff.
00:18:59
Speaker
But when you take a step back and you're like, well,
00:19:02
Speaker
if I'm player one and I kill off everyone else in the game, you're negative 5 million points before you've even plugged a ball.
00:19:09
Speaker
Like, well, okay, I understand.
00:19:11
Speaker
We probably shouldn't do that.
00:19:13
Speaker
People are going to end up getting punched in the head.
00:19:15
Speaker
Okay, but that could be a great option.
00:19:18
Speaker
All right.
00:19:19
Speaker
And think about that.
00:19:20
Speaker
You could do like a Mafia bloodbath mode where you put four players in and your goal is to stay above zero.
00:19:32
Speaker
And don't choose one path.
00:19:33
Speaker
You can choose so many.
00:19:35
Speaker
There's a lot that could be done.
00:19:38
Speaker
And then what will the license order prove?
00:19:40
Speaker
And what can we program in there with the time we have?
00:19:45
Speaker
But the voice call outs.
00:19:47
Speaker
So we came up with the rules.
00:19:50
Speaker
We refined what we were looking for in the rules.
00:19:52
Speaker
And then we come up with a script.
00:19:54
Speaker
And I wrote the script.
00:19:56
Speaker
I asked for feedback from the team.
00:19:58
Speaker
And then I directed the
00:20:00
Speaker
the two recording sessions we had with our voice talent, a real cool guy who was excited to do this project.
00:20:10
Speaker
And, you know, directing voice talent is something that I've done on all of my games.
00:20:15
Speaker
The first session that I did for Pirates and, you know, kind of one of those pinch yourself moments, like Kevin McNally, a world-renowned player,
00:20:28
Speaker
actor, the star who played Josh Me Gibbs in all five pirate movies.
00:20:33
Speaker
I'm directing him.
00:20:34
Speaker
He's in a studio and I'm saying, well, no, sir, can you please emphasize jackpot a little bigger?
00:20:41
Speaker
It's very exciting, right?
00:20:43
Speaker
So directing voice talent is something that I never thought I would be doing.
00:20:49
Speaker
Second game, you know, directing slash to, you know, can you put a little more energy into that jackpot call?
00:20:54
Speaker
It's like, yeah, I don't really like voice acting.
00:20:56
Speaker
stop my thing.
00:20:57
Speaker
Like, I get it.
00:20:59
Speaker
We got to do it.
00:21:02
Speaker
This guy was an actor.
00:21:03
Speaker
This guy, Zach, that did the voice work for us.
00:21:07
Speaker
And he was awesome.
00:21:08
Speaker
He did a great job capturing the different, the essence of, you know, he's kind of one of the crew with you.
00:21:16
Speaker
He's like, hey, you know, maybe you should go do this.
00:21:19
Speaker
The Don's waiting for you.
00:21:20
Speaker
You know, kind of providing you, you
00:21:24
Speaker
the type of feedback you need as a player without, you know, like a condescending, he's not, he's not in the ranks above you.
00:21:31
Speaker
He's more like your, your guide to where you should be doing things for your family.
00:21:37
Speaker
We were then able to also pull hundreds.
00:21:41
Speaker
I could, I could find the exact number of lines from the films.
00:21:46
Speaker
And that was amazing.
00:21:48
Speaker
me going through and, you know, reading the transcripts from the movies and then looking, you know, actually listening to the movies themselves, going through each of them line by line.
00:21:59
Speaker
And, okay, I have, this is the set of talent that I'm able to use voice work of.
00:22:06
Speaker
And, you know, what would that line make sense?
00:22:10
Speaker
Well, I'll find a place for it.
00:22:12
Speaker
I'll find a place for this one.
00:22:13
Speaker
I'll find a place for this one.
00:22:14
Speaker
This one, I probably can't figure out something, but I'm going to clip it anyways.
00:22:17
Speaker
And I'm going to throw it to the programming team and see if they can find a place for it.
00:22:22
Speaker
Wanted to have as much from the films as possible in here.
00:22:26
Speaker
Okay, the vibe I'm getting when I see Godfather and I see the way you're integrating it, it almost feels a little bit like a role-playing game.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I mean that in a very positive way.
00:22:38
Speaker
That sounds like you're trying to guide, you know, you're choosing a path, but it's also a little bit of a choose your own adventure because you're picking which house you're going to.
00:22:48
Speaker
And then he's like, well, maybe you should go and try to shake down the guy on the street or maybe you should.
00:22:53
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:22:54
Speaker
there's definitely essence of like board games in this, you know, I've been locked in my home for months playing board games with my wife and my sons.
00:23:05
Speaker
Um, there's definitely, there are three different economies that you're controlling as you're playing this game.
00:23:11
Speaker
You've got not only your, your points, um, which is the, the kind of economy that everyone's familiar with in a pinball machine, but you have your influence and your level over the different, um,
00:23:24
Speaker
different levels of influence that you can attain when you get influence over beat cops, which is the lowest level.
00:23:31
Speaker
Your, what is the perk there?
00:23:34
Speaker
I think your, your ventures score slightly more points.
00:23:38
Speaker
Once you get influence over detectives, then your jobs are worth more points.
00:23:44
Speaker
Once you get influence over the chief of police, you get more things and every level you rise, you get more perks that influence the rest of the game.
00:23:54
Speaker
As you're playing jobs, you need to recruit soldiers.
00:24:00
Speaker
So in order to start in the Don's office, you need to have 25 soldiers that you get.
00:24:05
Speaker
But which job you choose, where it is on the stained glass window, it affects the things next to it on the stained glass window.
00:24:14
Speaker
There's little artwork insert arrows that are pointing to the neighboring stained glass windows.
00:24:23
Speaker
So for example...
00:24:24
Speaker
The Sicily multiball has two jobs next to it.
00:24:28
Speaker
If you play Sicily multiball first and you do well, it positively influences the two jobs that are next to it.
00:24:34
Speaker
If you play those two jobs first and you cash out your values, one of them gives you an extra ball and add a ball to your multiball.
00:24:46
Speaker
And the other one, I think, gives you a higher super jackpot value.
00:24:50
Speaker
So your strategy that you're choosing on which job to start, which multi-ball to start, kind of the order in which you play those things, um, is definitely like a choose your own adventure kind of idea.
00:25:03
Speaker
The weapon economy is another thing that you are managing as you're playing.
00:25:08
Speaker
So you can build up a multiplier, you hit spinners and it adds to your weapon counter.
00:25:15
Speaker
Um,
00:25:15
Speaker
You have to use that action button to select which level of weapons you're bringing on your mission that you're using.
00:25:23
Speaker
It lasts for 10 seconds.
00:25:24
Speaker
So, you know, you're starting a multiball.
00:25:25
Speaker
All right, I'm going to crank up my weapon multiplier and I'm going to play this multiball for 10 seconds with a 3x or a 3 point or a 4x or a 5x.
00:25:35
Speaker
The more times you use a multiplier, the higher ceiling you can earn.
00:25:42
Speaker
So you build that up.
00:25:45
Speaker
When's the best time to use this multiplier versus, well, if I use it early, I can get a higher value later.
00:25:54
Speaker
Your territories that you're taking over, those are more kind of, again, resources that you're managing as you're trying to build
00:26:02
Speaker
how many neighborhoods you control.
00:26:04
Speaker
You get perks for owning a distinct borough of New York City and more perks for owning more boroughs of New York City.
00:26:16
Speaker
There's definitely a lot of deep nerdy rules that go into this thing.
00:26:24
Speaker
You don't have to know about any of them.
00:26:25
Speaker
You just want to whack a ball and hit the big bad guy up the middle.
00:26:28
Speaker
You know, you're probably going to stumble your way into a multi-ball.
00:26:31
Speaker
You're going to have fun hearing these guys talk trash to you.
00:26:36
Speaker
But for the players who are really into rules and managing play styles and risk management as they're choosing to cash out now or start a multiplier here, it's all there for the player.
00:26:51
Speaker
So do you feel like there was more challenges with Godfather or more freedom?
00:26:55
Speaker
Because it seems like if you happen to build a world, you had some freedom there.
00:27:01
Speaker
Well, relative to Guns N' Roses, I would say there were more challenges.
00:27:07
Speaker
But we definitely had to play in their sandbox.
00:27:10
Speaker
This is our lore.
00:27:13
Speaker
You need to hold on to this lore.
00:27:18
Speaker
But when I told them, well, here's my idea.
00:27:20
Speaker
I want to live in this world where the movies take place, but not necessarily follow the entire script of the film.
00:27:29
Speaker
Because that's linear gameplay.
00:27:33
Speaker
Boring.
00:27:34
Speaker
It's not fun.
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's boring.
00:27:36
Speaker
I don't want to just...
00:27:38
Speaker
play wedding favors literally the first time.
00:27:40
Speaker
Every time I start a game, I want to be able to pick any of the eight scenes that I want that I want to play through and see these different characters.
00:27:48
Speaker
Right.
00:27:49
Speaker
Variety on how you can tackle a game to me is very important.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:27:54
Speaker
So they they gave us the freedom of, you know, using whatever scenes we wanted for the talent that we had acquired from the first movie or the second movie.
00:28:03
Speaker
We didn't have to play them in a specific order.
00:28:07
Speaker
We were able to introduce our own characters that fit in this world in this time period and say appropriate things for the time and for the people they are.
00:28:21
Speaker
So there was some creative freedom.
00:28:24
Speaker
We're still playing within their sandbox in order to make it work within the brand.
00:28:29
Speaker
You talked about this story.
00:28:31
Speaker
Tell me again how you got Slash to play on this.
00:28:37
Speaker
So while we were doing Guns N' Roses, we watched a lot of Guns N' Roses concerts because we were trying to pull up the best images, the best video cuts that they gave to us.
00:28:50
Speaker
It was 18 concerts that were each three hours long.
00:28:54
Speaker
And they had high definition audio and video for all the concerts.
00:28:59
Speaker
Well, in watching this, and then when we went to the concert as well,
00:29:04
Speaker
Every time Slash would finish his crazy long 10-minute solo and go into Sweet Child of Mine, the last motif he would play before starting the iconic Sweet Child of Mine solo was the Godfather.
00:29:20
Speaker
And it was all beautifully choreographed, right?
00:29:23
Speaker
The lights in the venue would turn this like orange and red, and it would be just Slash in there centered playing Speak Softly Love.
00:29:32
Speaker
So I found out that I was doing Godfather and it's, I still hesitate every time I say the name out loud, right?
00:29:41
Speaker
Even though the game's been launched, I've been not saying the name out loud for, for two and a half years.
00:29:47
Speaker
I found out I was doing Godfather.
00:29:50
Speaker
I was just finishing up, you know, Guns N' Roses had been finished by me and it was coming through the production cycle now, getting ready to launch.
00:29:58
Speaker
And I was talking to Slash about GNR and what we were doing with it and the different concepts there.
00:30:05
Speaker
And I said, oh yeah, the next game that I'm doing is the Godfather.
00:30:11
Speaker
I stopped and I paused.
00:30:15
Speaker
And of course, you were fishing.
00:30:17
Speaker
You were fishing.
00:30:18
Speaker
And it didn't take long for the bite.
00:30:20
Speaker
He's like, Eric, I have to do that music for you.
00:30:26
Speaker
Like, okay, twist my arm.
00:30:28
Speaker
Sure.
00:30:30
Speaker
So, yeah, he was...
00:30:32
Speaker
He's awesome.
00:30:33
Speaker
He is such a pinhead at heart.
00:30:37
Speaker
And he just loves the creativity that goes into making games and making anything.
00:30:42
Speaker
I mean, he's so talented at what he does.
00:30:45
Speaker
And he appreciates the creativity of others.
00:30:50
Speaker
What a dude to work with.
00:30:51
Speaker
It's just been a wild, wild ride.
00:30:54
Speaker
And he was so stoked to do this.
00:30:56
Speaker
I saw it like...
00:30:58
Speaker
The Easter egg of him in the game, we put in the code as he's as he's ripping it out.
00:31:03
Speaker
There's he's normally a very stoic guy, right?
00:31:08
Speaker
Don't often see him have big emotions right at the end when he looks up at the camera.
00:31:12
Speaker
He gives us just this this grin where he knows what he just did was so cool.
00:31:20
Speaker
OK, now he's also not the only legendary guitarist that you got to work on this game.
00:31:24
Speaker
That is true.
00:31:26
Speaker
That is true.
00:31:26
Speaker
So tell me more about Mark.
00:31:29
Speaker
So Mark is a huge pinball nut.
00:31:36
Speaker
And I first met Mark when I got a phone call from Jack saying, Hey, Mark Tremonti wants to talk to you.
00:31:45
Speaker
I'm like, okay.
00:31:47
Speaker
Um,
00:31:48
Speaker
About what?
00:31:49
Speaker
Like, well, he just got a Pirates delivery.
00:31:52
Speaker
He bought it secondhand and a forklift went not through the side of it, but through the side of the box and messed up the decals and messed up.
00:32:03
Speaker
And so I get Mark on the phone.
00:32:04
Speaker
It's like, look, man.
00:32:07
Speaker
If there's anything you can do.
00:32:08
Speaker
And this was a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago.
00:32:12
Speaker
So Pirates had been out for a while.
00:32:15
Speaker
He's like, do you have any decals, anything I can put on my game?
00:32:20
Speaker
I just paid over 20 grand for this thing.
00:32:24
Speaker
Came in with a big scar down the side of it.
00:32:28
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, let me see what I can find.
00:32:30
Speaker
And I was able to get some decals for him, send them out to him.
00:32:34
Speaker
And he came for a tour of the factory and I'd been listening to, you know, I knew Creed's music, but Alter Bridge was definitely more my jam.
00:32:47
Speaker
And just the way Miles sings and the way Mark plays guitar, it's, it's incredible.
00:32:52
Speaker
It's an awesome performer.
00:32:54
Speaker
When I found out that,
00:32:56
Speaker
He was such a big pinhead and he, he couldn't stop talking about how excited he was to be in a pinball factory and how I have the coolest job in the world.
00:33:06
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, rockstar.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker
I, the pinball guy has the coolest job ever.
00:33:10
Speaker
You're, you got it.
00:33:12
Speaker
Um,
00:33:13
Speaker
He kept saying, is there anything you ever need, any music, anything at all?
00:33:17
Speaker
Just let me know, man.
00:33:18
Speaker
I'd love to do whatever you need.
00:33:21
Speaker
I just love pinball so much.
00:33:22
Speaker
I'd love to be a part of a game.
00:33:23
Speaker
I'm like, okay, I appreciate that.
00:33:26
Speaker
I'll keep that in mind.
00:33:27
Speaker
And then Mark sent me a track before it had been released of him singing Sinatra.
00:33:41
Speaker
And he sent it to me because we'd become friends.
00:33:43
Speaker
And he's like, hey, I want you to hear this new project that I'm working on.
00:33:46
Speaker
It's for charity.
00:33:47
Speaker
We're raising money.
00:33:49
Speaker
It's called Take a Chance.
00:33:51
Speaker
And it puts people out of their comfort zone.
00:33:53
Speaker
So Mark, the like...
00:33:56
Speaker
just heavy guitarists, you know, that is on stage and it's black t-shirt, just like ripping guitar, puts on a suit and sings like Frank Sinatra.
00:34:07
Speaker
And he hired the touring company, the touring band that played with Frank originally.
00:34:12
Speaker
You know, a lot of these guys are in their sixties, seventies, still the same guys are playing horn and piano and the same arranger that, that performed with Frank.
00:34:22
Speaker
They all came to work with Mark on,
00:34:25
Speaker
his album and when he sent me this i'm like oh man sinatra and the godfather have such like this this turbulent history together like all right mark i need you to sign it on disclosure i need to bring you into this project it's like oh yeah here here it is all right so
00:34:48
Speaker
I'm doing the Godfather and I'm wondering if you want to add some music to it.
00:34:54
Speaker
It's like, oh yeah, man, which guitar you want me to use?
00:34:56
Speaker
You want me to use this one?
00:34:57
Speaker
You want me to use this one?
00:34:58
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, you need, I want you to sing, speak softly, love like Sinatra.
00:35:04
Speaker
And he's like, done.
00:35:06
Speaker
Let's make it happen.
00:35:08
Speaker
But let's go all out.
00:35:09
Speaker
Let's do something incredible that no one has ever done in pinball.
00:35:13
Speaker
You know, let's, let's see how big we can make this.
00:35:17
Speaker
And so working with him and with Kerry Dedman, the composer, Kerry made a 40 piece orchestra arrangement for Speak Softly Love.
00:35:28
Speaker
And so we performed it.
00:35:31
Speaker
We were in Chicago.
00:35:33
Speaker
We went to a studio and
00:35:37
Speaker
There were 40 musicians who were in the studio that day.
00:35:39
Speaker
The horns did their part and then the strings all came in and they got set up and they did their part.
00:35:45
Speaker
And I was there for the string session.
00:35:46
Speaker
I was wearing my suit and Mark was wearing his suit.
00:35:52
Speaker
Jack Guarneri was there and he was wearing his suit.
00:35:54
Speaker
So we were all completely dressed up.
00:35:57
Speaker
All these string players were playing and then the percussion section was playing and we recorded the whole thing.
00:36:04
Speaker
Then Mark stepped up to the microphone and we had the tracks laid down from all the performers that just went.
00:36:10
Speaker
And Mark was singing, Speak Softly Love and doing four or five takes for each stanza that went through.
00:36:18
Speaker
And then he's like, all right, Eric, time for you to take a chance.
00:36:23
Speaker
And I got one chance to step up to the mic and belt it out.
00:36:29
Speaker
And I did.
00:36:30
Speaker
And it turned out quite well, if I do say so myself.
00:36:34
Speaker
Nice.
00:36:36
Speaker
Well, you do have a music background.
00:36:37
Speaker
Yes, very much so.
00:36:39
Speaker
Music has always been a part of my life since I was a kid.
00:36:42
Speaker
I've got to say, though, I love that you guys have put yourself in the game, too.
00:36:46
Speaker
I mean, I've seen all the little Easter eggs.
00:36:48
Speaker
You as a mafia man holding the Tommy gun on the artwork.
00:36:51
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:36:52
Speaker
Uh, the pitchers of the PJP employees is some of the capos.
00:36:57
Speaker
And there's Ken.
00:36:58
Speaker
Every time I see Ken, I'm like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to meet that guy in an alley.
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:03
Speaker
Right.
00:37:03
Speaker
And so it's even great that you're in the music too.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yes.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:07
Speaker
It's, it's a lot of fun when you get the freedom to be able to, you know, put yourself into your work.
00:37:12
Speaker
Not just blood, sweat, and tears, but your likeness, your voice, your image.
00:37:17
Speaker
It really brings a smile to your face, being able to be there and be a part of it.
00:37:23
Speaker
So are you ahead of one of the families then?
00:37:28
Speaker
I am one of the Capo Regimes of the Corleone family.
00:37:33
Speaker
So if you choose the Cuneos or the Stratzis or the Petalias, you get to beat me up.
00:37:41
Speaker
And the other Corleone Caporegime is Mark Tremonti.
00:37:48
Speaker
His image and likeness is there as well, and you're beating him up.
00:37:53
Speaker
So if you ever wanted motivation, now is your time.
00:37:56
Speaker
If you want to beat up Eric, in the baptism scene, you want to take him out as one of the leaders, this is your chance.
00:38:05
Speaker
So tell me about the collector's editions.
00:38:09
Speaker
So from what I have been gathering, that's actually been selling very well because people love all the integration on it.
00:38:18
Speaker
So tell me about how you made that feel even more Godfather than a standard pinball machine.
00:38:26
Speaker
So I wanted to have the game play the same between the limited edition and the collector's edition.
00:38:35
Speaker
So I was set on just creating art pieces and bling and kind of visual, visual upgrades to your machine that are super cool, but don't directly impact the play field and the way the game plays.
00:38:59
Speaker
So there's a couple small play field modifications, again, that don't interact with gameplay.
00:39:03
Speaker
There's a,
00:39:04
Speaker
getting the glitter into the play field, seeing it in person.
00:39:09
Speaker
It's, it's, it's incredible.
00:39:11
Speaker
There will be two of them on the floor at TPF to be able to see it in person.
00:39:18
Speaker
There's a couple of little,
00:39:20
Speaker
little tweaks that I made that when I look at them now, it's like, oh yeah, that's, that's relatively minor.
00:39:28
Speaker
But the like nine months of R and D that went into learning how to print a liquid gold ink onto the back of a PETG play field plastic and have it shine in a way that makes it look
00:39:41
Speaker
Incredible.
00:39:41
Speaker
There's a lot of R&D that went into it.
00:39:44
Speaker
Printing on metallic, backed, and reflective decals for, like, the apron, the bottom arch, right?
00:39:52
Speaker
Just another... If you're looking at the game side by side, like, oh, wow, that's really intense, visually sparkly, reflective, really cool stuff.
00:40:04
Speaker
Having the topper was, you know, this...
00:40:11
Speaker
concept that I had.
00:40:13
Speaker
I'm like, all right, I want two mobsters and I want a car in the middle.
00:40:18
Speaker
And a sculptor I worked with just loves to take, you know, I'm like, I figured the car is like that big, you know, mobster's gonna be like this.
00:40:26
Speaker
He's like, all right.
00:40:27
Speaker
So the car is this big and it's set at an isometric view.
00:40:32
Speaker
So when you look at the car from the front, it looks really cool.
00:40:36
Speaker
And it looks, when you look at it top,
00:40:39
Speaker
it's like, it's squished.
00:40:42
Speaker
It's a forced perspective view.
00:40:44
Speaker
So the car looks like the front of it is a lot bigger than the back of it.
00:40:48
Speaker
And that makes it look like it's driving toward you and it's huge.
00:40:51
Speaker
Look at it from the top.
00:40:52
Speaker
You're like, my brain broke when I'm looking at this thing.
00:40:55
Speaker
Cause it's, it's scaled weird, but you'll never see it from the front.
00:41:00
Speaker
And then the two mobsters, um, that move and they shoot and they can follow stuff around.
00:41:08
Speaker
Um,
00:41:10
Speaker
They're standing behind sculpted barrels.
00:41:13
Speaker
I mean, there's tens of thousands of dollars worth of sculpting, worth painting, tooling.
00:41:22
Speaker
I don't... The number of times that I was... What's the appropriate word?
00:41:33
Speaker
talked to strongly from our financial people about the cost of tooling that goes into components for the collector's edition.
00:41:47
Speaker
I can't even keep track of how many times I was asked to pull back, pull back, pull back.
00:41:51
Speaker
This is too much.
00:41:52
Speaker
This is too much.
00:41:54
Speaker
The leg sculpture covers that go on the game and they're held on with magnets.
00:42:00
Speaker
You know, I just wanted to have
00:42:04
Speaker
elegance and glamour and the 1940s and 50s gangster style elegance where you've got these plush chairs and golden ashtrays and just this...
00:42:21
Speaker
sick amount of money and opulence that is there.
00:42:25
Speaker
I really wanted to capture that in the collector's edition with the way that these gold pieces were made and the laser ash with reflective red backing with different slogans from the movie.
00:42:39
Speaker
gold mirror, back glass ink, just all these things that, that, you know, make you feel like you are a very wealthy mobster with your, with your golden lions there on your game.
00:42:54
Speaker
Well, you, you didn't bring up one thing that I thought was really fascinating on the topper.
00:43:02
Speaker
You actually may,
00:43:03
Speaker
be in the running for one of the coolest features of a topper with having the knockers on both sides and the guys shooting at you.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yes.
00:43:14
Speaker
Yes.
00:43:14
Speaker
I, I had an epiphany as I was, as I was developing this thing where I was going through coil tests and,
00:43:28
Speaker
And when you go into coil test, you can manually fire any coil in the game by just hitting the start button.
00:43:35
Speaker
And I hit the knocker coil, crack!
00:43:38
Speaker
And I'm like, that sounds like a gunshot.
00:43:41
Speaker
Oh, it sounds like a gunshot.
00:43:44
Speaker
Crack, crack, crack, crack, crack.
00:43:46
Speaker
I'm like, oh man, I'm doing this.
00:43:48
Speaker
I got to make this happen.
00:43:50
Speaker
And then I'm like, all right, there's two guys on top.
00:43:52
Speaker
If I fire this thing at 20 times per second, I'm probably going to melt something.
00:43:58
Speaker
So I bet I can fire it at 10 times per second, but I need two of them.
00:44:03
Speaker
And that's how fast a Thompson submachine gun fires, a Tommy gun.
00:44:06
Speaker
It fires 600 rounds per minute, 10 times per second.
00:44:12
Speaker
I ran the test for about two weeks in our prototyping and build shop.
00:44:20
Speaker
And it carried throughout into production.
00:44:22
Speaker
So people were there.
00:44:23
Speaker
About every 25 seconds hit here.
00:44:26
Speaker
What the hell's going on?
00:44:31
Speaker
Calm.
00:44:33
Speaker
And 30 seconds later.
00:44:37
Speaker
And I remember going out to the floor and telling people, I'm like, I'm going to be testing a very loud mechanism.
00:44:42
Speaker
It's going to be happening regularly every 30 seconds.
00:44:45
Speaker
You will hear what sounds like gunshots.
00:44:47
Speaker
Do not be alarmed.
00:44:48
Speaker
It is just a mechanism that is firing in the engineering lab.
00:44:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:53
Speaker
So I gave people fair warning.
00:44:57
Speaker
It is controllable as far as it doesn't have to be on.
00:45:04
Speaker
You can disable it in software if you so choose.
00:45:07
Speaker
It is on by default, though.
00:45:09
Speaker
It will be there as part of the game by default.
00:45:11
Speaker
And you'll have to go in there and shut it off if you have neighbors or family or anyone else.
00:45:18
Speaker
Or live in a high crime area.
00:45:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:20
Speaker
Are your dogs skittish?
00:45:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:24
Speaker
I did want it to be a feature that was controllable, but it is going to get your attention when you set up your brand new game.
00:45:33
Speaker
That is awesome.
00:45:34
Speaker
And what's funny too is I remember when we came in October, Ken was nice enough to give us a tour.
00:45:39
Speaker
Because the day you guys were doing tours is the day that we did the flip in the script on autism.
00:45:44
Speaker
And so Ken's like, well, you guys can get a private tour.
00:45:46
Speaker
Obviously, that's what you're doing.
00:45:48
Speaker
So we really appreciate you guys letting us in.
00:45:50
Speaker
And I was so intrigued because we're going through the floor.
00:45:54
Speaker
But obviously, you were working on some of the mechanics.
00:45:56
Speaker
And you could hear...
00:45:59
Speaker
testing the mech in the background i'm like i just want so bad just go over there just take a peek but i think we all would have been super curious if you were testing that mech during the tour yeah yeah now you were you were probably hearing
00:46:14
Speaker
the lift ramp mechanism, the different drop targets that are in the game.
00:46:21
Speaker
We life test everything so much to make sure that when this game is on route and getting beat up for dollar plays, the game survives and it makes money for the operators.
00:46:33
Speaker
So the shooter on the collectors is the severed horse head.
00:46:39
Speaker
It is.
00:46:40
Speaker
It is.
00:46:41
Speaker
I hope...
00:46:43
Speaker
I don't get angry letters from PETA.
00:46:47
Speaker
Again, that's one of those.
00:46:50
Speaker
You ask someone who saw The Godfather 15 years ago.
00:46:52
Speaker
They remember that scene.
00:46:54
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:46:54
Speaker
They remember Jack Walt in his bed with his golden sheets, waking up covered in blood and just his scream with the horse head.
00:47:03
Speaker
Fun trivia is, you know, what's the name of the horse?
00:47:06
Speaker
Cartoon.
00:47:07
Speaker
Cartoon, yes.
00:47:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:11
Speaker
It's it's just such an iconic scene.
00:47:14
Speaker
It's like how and I was reading some of the chatter that was going around.
00:47:18
Speaker
You know, there's going to be a severed horse head multi ball or something.
00:47:21
Speaker
And I didn't want, you know, this game to be tongue in cheek, you know, kind of making fun of.
00:47:28
Speaker
I felt like it was a elegant way of getting the horse head in the game that just fits so perfectly.
00:47:35
Speaker
It's really nice, actually.
00:47:37
Speaker
There have been some custom shooter rods that have been weird, you know, that are weird shades.
00:47:41
Speaker
Like I've got a, I've got a Homer Simpson in a donut that I had on my Simpsons pinball party.
00:47:48
Speaker
But that thing is like this big, you have no finesse or control.
00:47:52
Speaker
It's like, ah, okay.
00:47:54
Speaker
It didn't work.
00:47:55
Speaker
I wanted to have a shooter knob that fits and feels good in your hand.
00:47:59
Speaker
And this horse head is the right shape.
00:48:04
Speaker
It fits, it conforms to your hand when you grab it.
00:48:06
Speaker
It's almost like you're holding the handle of a pistol or something, right?
00:48:10
Speaker
It's like, it's that shape when it's in your hand and it just feels good and you can pull it back and let it go.
00:48:16
Speaker
So that's great.
00:48:19
Speaker
The feel of a shooter rod is important.
00:48:22
Speaker
It's important.
00:48:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:24
Speaker
Right shape.
00:48:25
Speaker
So one other thing that Ken had pointed out to us is you guys still have it set up.
00:48:30
Speaker
Your rotisseries and stuff can still do wide bodies if you want to.
00:48:35
Speaker
Is there any future plans to do wide bodies there at JJP?
00:48:40
Speaker
There is nothing preventing me from doing a wide body or from any designer doing a wide body.
00:48:46
Speaker
A lot of it comes down to
00:48:49
Speaker
Wide bodies are more expensive.
00:48:51
Speaker
When you've got the extra inches on a play field, it can't just be open space.
00:48:55
Speaker
You know, you got to fill it up with stuff.
00:48:59
Speaker
And stuff is expensive.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yes.
00:49:01
Speaker
And stuff is not expensive just on bill of material, but stuff is expensive in design.
00:49:06
Speaker
stuff that's expensive in prototyping, in getting parts into the building and getting them inspected and getting them stored, like storage space.
00:49:15
Speaker
If you have more unique parts, it takes up more space on your shelves.
00:49:20
Speaker
And that's all like, that's all measurable as a cost to the company.
00:49:28
Speaker
So it is totally doable.
00:49:30
Speaker
And, you know,
00:49:32
Speaker
If the right license comes along and my heart and soul says this needs to be a wide body, it'll be a wide body.
00:49:40
Speaker
Nice.
00:49:41
Speaker
So it's not out of the cards.
00:49:42
Speaker
You're saying there's a chance.
00:49:43
Speaker
There is a chance.
00:49:44
Speaker
There's absolutely a chance.
00:49:47
Speaker
So you brought back the hot rails.
00:49:49
Speaker
I did.
00:49:50
Speaker
But you're using... Okay, tell me about how you did the unique aspect of integrating the hot rails on the apron.
00:49:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:00
Speaker
So it's really pragmatic, actually.
00:50:04
Speaker
And this is one of those, you know, I should have done this the first time around, but it's an improvement that I made in The Godfather over Guns N' Roses.
00:50:16
Speaker
Having unique items on your bill of material is more expensive.
00:50:20
Speaker
On Guns N' Roses, the left hot rail was a different length with a different length LED strip.
00:50:27
Speaker
So it's a different part number, a different assembly number.
00:50:29
Speaker
All that stuff needs to be drawn and created by the mechanical engineers and inspected by incoming and then stored.
00:50:35
Speaker
On Godfather, they're the same exact piece.
00:50:39
Speaker
And me, being an electrical engineer and mechanical engineer and designer, I'm like, all right, boom, the hot rails are on.
00:50:47
Speaker
Boom, the apron is on.
00:50:50
Speaker
I know I got lights under there because I know the hot rail extends another four and a half inches underneath the bottom arch.
00:50:57
Speaker
So I grab the...
00:50:59
Speaker
the Dremel, I'm like, cut a hole in it, and I'm like, yeah, I can see my lights again.
00:51:05
Speaker
I gotta do something with that.
00:51:07
Speaker
Alright, it's gonna be a health meter for my bad guy.
00:51:10
Speaker
Actually, I had a couple different ideas.
00:51:11
Speaker
Maybe it's an ammo counter.
00:51:13
Speaker
Maybe it's a timer that's showing a countdown.
00:51:16
Speaker
And then I settled on it being a health meter.
00:51:19
Speaker
Um...
00:51:20
Speaker
I was trying to think of a good, like how many more hits do I need to hit this guy?
00:51:23
Speaker
Or I got to look up at the screen.
00:51:24
Speaker
Okay, it's like I can do that if I trap up.
00:51:27
Speaker
But now it's like I can see it's green or it's yellow or it's red and it's flashing right down here.
00:51:33
Speaker
It's very visible to the player.
00:51:35
Speaker
So it's a pragmatic of, I have those lights there anyways.
00:51:39
Speaker
I have to use them.
00:51:40
Speaker
I got to figure out a way to use them and integrate them into the game.
00:51:42
Speaker
And I'm like, all right, health meter it is.
00:51:46
Speaker
It's great that you're utilizing the stuff that's already there, right?
00:51:48
Speaker
Like it was like, well, I already have those lights there.
00:51:50
Speaker
Might as well use them, right?
00:51:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:51:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:53
Speaker
When I look at the at the wire forms, there's one that reminds me a lot of one of my games.
00:52:03
Speaker
Black Rose.
00:52:05
Speaker
So.
00:52:07
Speaker
You have that comes straight down the middle, but the modification in Black Rose, it just hits a 45 degree angle and goes up a little bit.
00:52:15
Speaker
It always hits the glass too.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:17
Speaker
Oh, it always hits the glass, which is great.
00:52:19
Speaker
It's kind of like whitewater.
00:52:20
Speaker
It always hits the glass on Insanity Falls.
00:52:23
Speaker
So as it's coming down.
00:52:26
Speaker
I was surprised when I watched gameplay because I thought it would come down, shoot up and hit that standup target in the, in the shots lane and then go firing, like screaming down to the middle.
00:52:40
Speaker
But it actually like, and that's a straight shot, but it seems still very controllable.
00:52:46
Speaker
So tell me about why you put that in and what was the thinking behind it?
00:52:50
Speaker
So I love the idea of a shots target.
00:52:54
Speaker
There's just,
00:52:57
Speaker
Every one of my games, I design in risk reward.
00:53:01
Speaker
It's very risky to make a shots shot because you are standing on a razor's edge.
00:53:08
Speaker
If you miss that shot, it hits the sling and goes straight down your throat or you fire too late and you just fire and the ball wasn't on your flipper, right?
00:53:17
Speaker
But if you can hit that target,
00:53:20
Speaker
It can be worth something big, really big.
00:53:23
Speaker
But shooting an in lane is a skill that only very advanced players can successfully pull off repeatedly.
00:53:33
Speaker
I wanted there to be a way for a casual to experience a Shatz target.
00:53:38
Speaker
So I wanted to feed the wire form into the target and have it come back down.
00:53:44
Speaker
So they could feel what a Shatz hit would be like by making something that most people can make, which is a very up the center left ramp.
00:53:57
Speaker
When it's coming screaming down there, it can hit that target and come back so fast.
00:54:02
Speaker
You've got to be on your toes.
00:54:04
Speaker
It is a very fun mechanic in the game.
00:54:09
Speaker
The speed of it is whipping around the ramp, coming down.
00:54:12
Speaker
the geometry that was designed for that wire form so that, you know, anytime you can pick up a ball with your hands and put it anywhere in a game, the ball has to be able to get out of there because in gameplay, it will happen.
00:54:29
Speaker
You know, it might be one in a million, but if you can put a game, a ball there by hand with the assumption that the glass is on.
00:54:36
Speaker
So something that's, you know, this far away from the glass, you can't put a ball in there, but,
00:54:40
Speaker
If you can put the ball there, it will happen in gameplay.
00:54:43
Speaker
And then the ball is stuck.
00:54:44
Speaker
So that wire form, it needed to actually go kind of uphill, right?
00:54:49
Speaker
It was coming down past a point and then it had to go back up the play field and direct energy against the normal motion of travel.
00:54:58
Speaker
So the ramp had to be designed that it was very, very steep at the end and then banked so that it would come up and around and go into that target.
00:55:08
Speaker
So I had to build up enough speed as it was coming straight down the playfield.
00:55:13
Speaker
I had it kind of curving around a little bit, but the ball would move too slowly as it was, you know, meandering down.
00:55:21
Speaker
So I had to get it straight.
00:55:22
Speaker
So it had enough energy to kind of go back uphill and then roll back down.
00:55:27
Speaker
A lot of geometry challenges with wire forms on on this game.
00:55:34
Speaker
This marks your second mature theme.
00:55:37
Speaker
Are you starting to become known as the mature theme guy down at JJP?
00:55:41
Speaker
Um, I don't shy away from it.
00:55:46
Speaker
It was Willy Wonka talking in the background.
00:55:48
Speaker
Make a wish.
00:55:49
Speaker
Right.
00:55:51
Speaker
I don't shy away from it.
00:55:53
Speaker
Um, I have no objection to mature themes.
00:55:57
Speaker
I, uh,
00:55:58
Speaker
Understand that there's an audience for good family-friendly themes for Toy Story and for Willy Wonka and for The Wizard of Oz.
00:56:07
Speaker
You know, those are very good family-friendly, bring the whole family together.
00:56:11
Speaker
There's also an audience for mature themes, right?
00:56:15
Speaker
I wouldn't want...
00:56:17
Speaker
my only pin in my collection to be an only mature theme.
00:56:21
Speaker
If it's mature all the time, right?
00:56:23
Speaker
I think God, I think Godfather is great because it doesn't have to be only the adult theme.
00:56:30
Speaker
You turn on the adult, uh, featured videos, you know, these explicit videos of, of blood and violence and people getting shot.
00:56:38
Speaker
Like not something I want my kids to be playing on my game.
00:56:42
Speaker
Same with, um,
00:56:44
Speaker
Guns N' Roses.
00:56:45
Speaker
There's songs that are kind of held behind an adult filter.
00:56:49
Speaker
I wanted my kids to be able to play this game and my kids to be able to play The Godfather without them needing to be exposed to the adult themed videos and content.
00:56:59
Speaker
So those are settings that are adjustable and you have to have the keys for
00:57:05
Speaker
the coin door in order to change those settings.
00:57:08
Speaker
You can't just hit a flipper button or something like that.
00:57:10
Speaker
And the reason I'm explaining that so intricately is because that's something I had to explain to the licensor because...
00:57:18
Speaker
Most licensors are under the impression that pinball machines go into Chuck E. Cheese's.
00:57:22
Speaker
Well, you can't you can't have people getting shot in the face in a Chuck E. Cheese.
00:57:26
Speaker
And I'm like, you're right.
00:57:27
Speaker
But Chuck E. Cheese would never buy an adult theme.
00:57:31
Speaker
They're not going to buy The Walking Dead.
00:57:33
Speaker
Right.
00:57:33
Speaker
That's not a theme you would see in a Chuck E. Cheese.
00:57:37
Speaker
Um, so explaining that these are settings that can be adjusted by the end user.
00:57:43
Speaker
Um, you know, if there's children in the house, if they don't have access to the keys for the coin box, which mom or dad could, you know, hang up on a hook, then they can't adjust these settings and they can't turn on adult and explicit settings.
00:57:55
Speaker
So keeping the licensor aware that, you know, this is not a
00:58:01
Speaker
Everything is there all at once and it is what you get, that these settings are adjustable, that you can turn on or off certain video features was an important point for the licensor to understand that this is how the content will be presented and it'll be up to the end user to show the adult or to hear the adult call-outs.
00:58:20
Speaker
Kind of going away from the mature thing, but I was thinking of...
00:58:24
Speaker
I think one of the complaints when this game first came out was the light show versus the theme.
00:58:29
Speaker
And Carl DeAngelo played it like the next day on stream, right?
00:58:33
Speaker
And Carl's very well respected in the community.
00:58:36
Speaker
And he said, really, guys, the lights are not as embrash as in your face.
00:58:41
Speaker
And it's very well more incorporated.
00:58:44
Speaker
And so I think that was one of my hesitations.
00:58:45
Speaker
But I think the thing with JJP is you have to experience this in person.
00:58:49
Speaker
It's hard to take it for face.
00:58:51
Speaker
Like it's hard to take it for everything it's worth off of a video.
00:58:54
Speaker
Right.
00:58:55
Speaker
Speaking of the glitter, when we were walking through and doing that, that tour, you guys had some toy stories on the line and it's amazing how much that glitter just pops on those play fields.
00:59:06
Speaker
I think this is definitely, if you're going to Texas Pinball Festival, this is an experience like anything else.
00:59:13
Speaker
JJP is making a product that no one else is making on the market, right?
00:59:17
Speaker
You guys have definitely went above and beyond the call of what pinball is and making it from a game into an experience, an enjoyable experience.
00:59:25
Speaker
And so I commend you guys for that.
00:59:27
Speaker
It's amazing what you guys are doing down there.
00:59:29
Speaker
Thank you, Chesh.
00:59:30
Speaker
Appreciate it.
00:59:32
Speaker
Those collector's editions will also be playable at Midwest Gaming Classic in Milwaukee the next weekend.
00:59:40
Speaker
And there are a couple collector's editions that are touring the world at various shows that are happening.
00:59:46
Speaker
There should be one at...
00:59:51
Speaker
called flip fest it's in france at the end of april and there should be one going to australia as well these are show games these are not um part of the the 1000 these are you know marketing sample prototype builds that people can see and experience it firsthand awesome now are you are going to texas right i am going to texas yeah
01:00:16
Speaker
So if people have questions, they can actually come up and play a game next to the designer.
01:00:21
Speaker
Yes.
01:00:22
Speaker
Or with the designer.
01:00:23
Speaker
With the designer.
01:00:24
Speaker
That's true.
01:00:25
Speaker
I think you're going to be bumped up the list.
01:00:26
Speaker
You bring him a beer, right?
01:00:28
Speaker
Exactly.
01:00:29
Speaker
Exactly.
01:00:29
Speaker
There's a line 30 people long, but you come to the front of the list if you bring good beer.
01:00:35
Speaker
it's like the uh the quick pass at disneyland exactly now didn't amanda win a dollar off you playing a game on your game on my game yes we both had terrible terrible games of pirates of the caribbean but hers was slightly less terrible less terrible she wound up with
01:00:57
Speaker
60,000 points as the winner.
01:01:00
Speaker
Right.
01:01:01
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:01
Speaker
She left that part of the story out.
01:01:03
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:06
Speaker
It was a, it was a. Yeah.
01:01:10
Speaker
If you listen to her, tell it, she dunked over like a seven footer.
01:01:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:15
Speaker
So that's okay.
01:01:17
Speaker
What is one thing that you love about Godfather that you haven't been able to really talk about yet?
01:01:21
Speaker
What's something that you just, the audience needs to know about this game.
01:01:26
Speaker
Well, one of the things that we're, I would say we're not allowed to talk about, working with the licensor, we always learn what the scope of the license entails.
01:01:47
Speaker
And the scope of the Godfather license originally did not include Michael Corleone.
01:01:56
Speaker
The original contract that we signed did not include Michael Corleone nor the actor who played him.
01:02:05
Speaker
And so there were there was extra effort.
01:02:10
Speaker
And in fact, in fact, parts had been released for production without Michael Corleone's image used in the game.
01:02:22
Speaker
And we, myself and Jack,
01:02:27
Speaker
were fighting tooth and nail to get Michael's character into this game.
01:02:34
Speaker
And eventually, we got through directly to Mr. Pacino.
01:02:41
Speaker
And we're able to work directly with him and his attorneys in getting him to sign on to be part of The Godfather.
01:02:51
Speaker
Now, Michael Corleone has never been represented in
01:02:56
Speaker
In a licensed product for the Godfather until this game.
01:03:05
Speaker
Wow.
01:03:06
Speaker
So when we told Paramount
01:03:11
Speaker
we got Pacino to be on board.
01:03:13
Speaker
They're like, stop the presses.
01:03:16
Speaker
This has never been accomplished with our company and with this license.
01:03:21
Speaker
He has not approved his likeness to be used in licensed material.
01:03:28
Speaker
But Jack can be very convincing.
01:03:32
Speaker
Wow.
01:03:33
Speaker
And I...
01:03:35
Speaker
personally wrote a letter to Mr. Pacino outlining how I would use his likeness in the game and how I would represent intellectual property in the best light possible.
01:03:48
Speaker
I showed him how I would use it.
01:03:51
Speaker
Here are scenes I would use.
01:03:52
Speaker
Here's the artwork renditions that I would do that would show you your character in the best light.
01:04:02
Speaker
And it is my mission to present this intellectual property in the best way possible.
01:04:08
Speaker
And frankly, sir, that would be impossible without your character as part of this.
01:04:14
Speaker
And he agreed to be a part of it.
01:04:17
Speaker
And so we changed all of the artwork at the last minute.
01:04:22
Speaker
Wow.
01:04:22
Speaker
And we changed all the video content and the audio content.
01:04:26
Speaker
I mean, I'm talking about...
01:04:28
Speaker
November of last year when parts were already released and they were getting into the building and stopped the presses.
01:04:37
Speaker
We are putting Michael Corleone as the center figure on the limited edition playfield and he is going to be there right behind the Don on the collector's edition playfield.
01:04:48
Speaker
Mr. Franchi redid all of the artwork for both packages to include Michael in the game and
01:04:58
Speaker
Represented large, unlimited edition game.
01:05:01
Speaker
Backlash, sides, playfield.
01:05:04
Speaker
It was a monumental feat to pivot in the 11th hour.
01:05:11
Speaker
But it was an investment that everyone at the company was willing to make because of how important he is to the franchise.
01:05:22
Speaker
Holy crap.
01:05:23
Speaker
That's insane.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, that is amazing.
01:05:27
Speaker
That is going above and beyond.
01:05:29
Speaker
See, that's just JJP, right?
01:05:30
Speaker
For me, the Godfather is Michael Corleone.
01:05:34
Speaker
That's who I think of.
01:05:35
Speaker
I actually don't really think of Marlon Brando.
01:05:37
Speaker
I think of the Godfather storyline is Michael reluctantly becoming the mob boss.
01:05:45
Speaker
Mm hmm.
01:05:46
Speaker
And so that for me, having Michael Corleone is essential to tell the story.
01:05:53
Speaker
I agree.
01:05:54
Speaker
And that's why I pushed until it finally happened.
01:05:59
Speaker
You just had to call Slash, right?
01:06:01
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:01
Speaker
Slash with Paul McCartney.
01:06:02
Speaker
Slash call Paul McCartney again.
01:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, not this time.
01:06:07
Speaker
Not this time.
01:06:09
Speaker
That is amazing.
01:06:10
Speaker
That is epic.
01:06:12
Speaker
I don't know how else to go.
01:06:14
Speaker
That's the best story to end on right there.
01:06:16
Speaker
Yes, it definitely is.
01:06:18
Speaker
Thank you, Eric, for coming on.
01:06:20
Speaker
We are just absolute fans of what you're doing.
01:06:23
Speaker
The product there is just top notch.
01:06:25
Speaker
And I don't know.
01:06:26
Speaker
I don't know what to say about JJP.
01:06:28
Speaker
I haven't already said because.
01:06:30
Speaker
Right.
01:06:31
Speaker
If you get a JJP game, it's a quality game.
01:06:35
Speaker
In many ways, there are certain themes that people want you to get just because of how much theme integration you have been able to do with your previous releases.
01:06:47
Speaker
And that's a testament to how you do things.
01:06:51
Speaker
So if they want to get a hold of you or see you at Texas Pinball Festival, what's the best way to do it?
01:06:59
Speaker
I will be at the Jersey Jack booth as often as I can be.
01:07:04
Speaker
There's a lot of things that happen at shows where I got to go in this direction or that direction.
01:07:11
Speaker
Jersey Jack has a panel discussion at six o'clock on Friday night at TPF.
01:07:18
Speaker
So I'll be there with Jack.
01:07:22
Speaker
Franchi will also be there.
01:07:24
Speaker
And Bill Grupp, who's one of the senior programmers at Jersey Jack, will also be there.
01:07:28
Speaker
So we'll be able to talk shop.
01:07:31
Speaker
Mr. Cromwell and Mr. Mike Fox will be in the booth with us all weekend.
01:07:39
Speaker
Stop by and say hi.
01:07:40
Speaker
You can always reach out to us on our social medias at Jersey Jack.
01:07:46
Speaker
And, you know, ping me on there and I'm sure I'll see it at some point.
01:07:50
Speaker
I get shown a lot of the people want to say things to me for good or for real.
01:07:55
Speaker
I find out about them.
01:07:57
Speaker
So what's what's your favorite beer?
01:07:59
Speaker
So if people want to bring you one down at Texas, my favorite beer that's available in Texas.
01:08:07
Speaker
I do like the Revolver IPA.
01:08:10
Speaker
So that is a Texas based beer.
01:08:15
Speaker
micro brew that's out of i believe it's out of austin i've had that a couple times it's a good one let's see how many of those we can get to you eric at the jjp booth you know your chances of actually beating him at a dollar game consistently go up they do the more drinks he's had that's like jumping over a nickel to pick or over a dollar to pick up a nickel though i brought you 30 of these but yeah to win a dollar game all right here's the dollar let's do this right
01:08:43
Speaker
I think, Eric, that's a win-win situation for you regardless.
01:08:46
Speaker
I agree.
01:08:47
Speaker
Bring a backpack.
01:08:48
Speaker
All right.
01:08:50
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
01:08:53
Speaker
We are on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube now.
01:08:59
Speaker
And we're all at LoserKidPinball.
01:09:01
Speaker
Leave us comments, whatever your heart desires.
01:09:04
Speaker
We keep getting weird stuff here and there.
01:09:07
Speaker
I'm going to hurry and drop this right now.
01:09:09
Speaker
But Scott lost to Travis.
01:09:11
Speaker
Travis.
01:09:12
Speaker
for our top 100.
01:09:13
Speaker
It was a Jersey Jack edition.
01:09:15
Speaker
That's true.
01:09:16
Speaker
It was.
01:09:17
Speaker
It was Guns N' Roses versus Wonka and Guns N' Roses won.
01:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, it was actually kind of hard because I do like Guns N' Roses better than Wonka.
01:09:27
Speaker
And so...
01:09:28
Speaker
I really had to pull out some creative, uh, uh, creative arguments for, for going against, um, yeah.
01:09:36
Speaker
So I've got them both.
01:09:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:39
Speaker
You got a beautiful lineup.
01:09:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:41
Speaker
I mean, I'm slightly jealous.
01:09:43
Speaker
I'm not slightly jealous.
01:09:44
Speaker
I'm, I'm over the top jealous.
01:09:46
Speaker
You have all the Jersey Jacks there, except for your current one, which will come, which will be coming soon.
01:09:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:52
Speaker
Well, I didn't want to show all my cards.
01:09:54
Speaker
My, my toy story.
01:09:56
Speaker
Um,
01:09:58
Speaker
I'm taking delivery of it very soon.
01:10:01
Speaker
But in fact, every year at my son's school, there is a carnival fundraiser.
01:10:09
Speaker
And I'm like, Toy Story 4 is going to that carnival.
01:10:12
Speaker
It's going to be dollar plays and they're going to raise money for the school.
01:10:17
Speaker
You know, highest score is going to get $25 gift card to maybe they'll get a Jersey Jack shirt or something like that.
01:10:24
Speaker
Right.
01:10:24
Speaker
But yeah, we wanted to have the, uh,
01:10:28
Speaker
the carnival from my son's elementary school, have a carnival themed Toy Story 4 pinball machine.
01:10:34
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome.
01:10:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:35
Speaker
That's great.
01:10:37
Speaker
Thanks again for coming on, Eric.
01:10:39
Speaker
We appreciate all you do and don't have too much fun down in Texas.
01:10:42
Speaker
Of course.
01:10:43
Speaker
I will, I will enjoy myself responsibly.