Transcript
Speaker: Hi everybody, so here we are, another TSE podcast.
Speaker: We had a bit of a break due to various circumstances.
Speaker: I think Stuart was on holiday and John was eating pickles.
Speaker: And I actually had micellar flooded, so all these things came together and prevented us getting together.
Speaker: So here we are today, and I think, what song are we on now, guys?
Speaker: John thought we were on Born To Be Free, because he had a bit of a brain fog.
Speaker: And he realised we'd already recorded that episode.
Speaker: So I think we're talking about Pandora today, is that right, guys?
Speaker: Yeah, we are, definitely.
Speaker: We are.
Speaker: Right, so we normally start off, usually Stuart kicks off this week.
Speaker: And I thought, why don't I just actually just talk about the song first of all?
Speaker: We'll just do this roundabout face.
Speaker: Is that rather than talk about the media?
Speaker: Yeah, why not?
Speaker: Shake it up.
Speaker: Just talk about the music.
Speaker: I first heard Pandora when Stuart sent me over the demo tape.
Speaker: I'd never heard of it before because it wasn't an old pillow fights back song that I think, and I'm not too sure when Stuart wrote it, he'll tell me.
Speaker: But I remember actually, I remember I had huge problems coming up with the production for this song because I had no point in reference.
Speaker: And I remember I stared at my software for weeks and weeks and weeks trying to build a chorus and trying to build a verse.
Speaker: And I really didn't know where to go.
Speaker: And I remember actually, Stuart, I said to you, I need a reference for this.
Speaker: And I think you sent over the song by The Squeeze called Some Fantastic Place.
Speaker: Yeah, it did.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a vague reference point.
Speaker: I think my original take on Pandora was that it would have Hammond organ in it and all sorts of, and sound a bit sort of bluesy.
Speaker: So I was, I think I had a Talk Talk, sorry, yeah, Talk Talk song in mind as well.
Speaker: But yeah, you're right, there was the Squeeze song, Some Fantastic Place, which was...
Speaker: um no actually no we got that wrong some fantastic place wasn't for pandora that was for the girl from devon so i come to that yeah no mr talk talk song that i i was really keen on which came from the color of spring album album in 85 86 i think it was and yeah i was referencing all of that stuff and i think you took it away and went it's not sure it's going to work with all of that old-fashioned sounding instruments in it and i'll let you carry on from there
Speaker: No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker: Yeah, I forgot about that squeeze song.
Speaker: It was a reference for another track.
Speaker: No, I remember this.
Speaker: It was the song from Talk Talk that appeared on the album that you mentioned.
Speaker: Yeah, and the big takeaway I took from that was the organ.
Speaker: So then I actually managed to build, I think, the verses actually with some of the organ sounds.
Speaker: And that was the point of reference that I actually used.
Speaker: But yeah, it was a very difficult song.
Speaker: I didn't know where to start with it at all, but that was the key reference song.
Speaker: And once I had that reference, then I was able to build on it.
Speaker: And, yeah, I suppose the obvious question is, is the Pandora, who is she?
Speaker: I really, I really, really like this song.
Speaker: It's one of the only songs I've written in the third person.
Speaker: And so it's about somebody else, obviously.
Speaker: And there was a real Pandora, but she wasn't called Pandora.
Speaker: Back in the day, a few years back now, I used to, I lived in West London and I had a really good mate who lived, had this really cool garden flat in Camberwell that he was renting.
Speaker: He worked in the, in, in the city doing something rather.
Speaker: And his girlfriend at the time was, worked for a bank and she was quite, you know, she was very successful.
Speaker: And I think she was the one that kind of paid for the garden flat, to be honest.
Speaker: But she was kind of that archetypal late 80s, early 90s kind of pushing a new woman, if you like, before the Ladette culture thing happened.
Speaker: And I based the character of Pandora entirely on her.
Speaker: Her name was Annette.
Speaker: The Pandora name came from an old girlfriend of mine in the early 80s, years and years ago.
Speaker: One of my first girlfriends was called Miranda and her nickname was Pandora.
Speaker: And I just like that.
Speaker: Obviously, I just like the name Pandora because it's a great name.
Speaker: It's not a great name to sing because it's got a P on it and you're always popping with P's.
Speaker: But just like the name, I just thought this Pandora works for this song because this woman is quite a...
Speaker: confident, successful woman and Pandora suggested that sort of, that name suggested that sort of woman to me.
Speaker: So that's the background to who Pandora actually was.
Speaker: These days, and I'll come to this later, I like to see Pandora as my daughter who lives in London and works and is very London-centric and a thrusting, successful, confident girl.
Speaker: And so I kind of look at Pandora as my daughter, Charlie, now.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: I mean, what did you think, John, when you first heard the demo?
Speaker: I can't remember.
Speaker: Well, I don't think Charlie works as well as Pandora in the song, does it?
Speaker: No, it doesn't.
Speaker: It doesn't work at all, does it?
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: My original thoughts on the song were that it was, like, very, very much a pop song.
Speaker: And it had all sorts of different sections and nuances that, you know, every section is different, you know, and it kind of needs that and it builds up to the chorus.
Speaker: And I think...
Speaker: What you did on the backing track, Tony, was just perfect.
Speaker: You know, Stuart, this was one of the very few songs on the album that I don't think that I followed the vocals too closely with the bass line.
Speaker: I made...
Speaker: you know, the intro and the verses I made very melodic and I kind of got my Beatles influence out there, you know, the McCartney type, you know, octave stuff that's like ringing out and nice and melodic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then it came to the bridge section and then my kind of Chris Squire influence came in and I started doing all these
Speaker: weird, fast feels.
Speaker: Then the chorus, my song of reference on the chorus to this song was Hanging Around by the Stranglers.
Speaker: If you've ever listened to that song, when it goes into the chorus, Hanging Around, you've got that really chugging bass line.
Speaker: And that's what I kind of tried to do on that to give it light and shade.
Speaker: But it was, for me, it was an easy song.
Speaker: For you two, not as much.
Speaker: Yeah, I remember somewhere in the song, there's this incredible bass run.
Speaker: It was my favorite part of the album.
Speaker: I can't remember.
Speaker: I think it's coming out of the, I can't remember, but you do this thing where I don't know what you're doing, sort of climbing up the, there's this weird sequence of bass notes and you end it on a double bass note.
Speaker: I can't remember actually.
Speaker: Do you remember the section?
Speaker: I know the section is, she takes taxi cabs.
Speaker: And then it's the next line.
Speaker: Yeah, this is really weird.
Speaker: It's almost like if you start a root note, you go down the scale and then you go back up and you play another note and you end up on a double note.
Speaker: And I thought that was genius.
Speaker: When I first heard it, I think I downloaded it.
Speaker: And before I imported it into the track, I thought, how's that going to work with that piece of music?
Speaker: Because it's just like, you know, it's just not like sort of like, you know, four on the floor.
Speaker: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker: It was coming out of the verse, which is a very kind of smooth Beatles type feel.
Speaker: into the bridge section, which is the one we're talking about.
Speaker: Did you do that all in one take, or did you do a couple of takes?
Speaker: I did that all in one take, that bass line.
Speaker: I did it in about seven takes, the first time I attempted it.
Speaker: and then gradually sort of wield it down until I got it down to about three.
Speaker: And then, and then I just saw one night, all right, I'm going to go for it.
Speaker: And I just pressed record and just played it through.
Speaker: So yeah, there are quite a few baselines that I really like on the album, but that was pretty cool.
Speaker: I thought that was actually quite good.
Speaker: And I remember trying to mix it and I thought, well, I've got to make sure this pokes out somehow.
Speaker: Cause I always try and bury your bass anyway, cause it's the least important part of using it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Obviously.
Speaker: No, I really thought that's really cool.
Speaker: We had to show off your talents because I know you're playing other bands and I'm not going to mention we all know who they are, but I don't really hear you playing.
Speaker: Splitter.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: I don't actually hear you playing that kind of bass, say, for example, when you're playing for Squire or maybe for drums and wires.
Speaker: TSC for me is a totally different ballgame.
Speaker: No, that was brilliant.
Speaker: Because I don't have to sing and because I don't have to write 95% of the songs.
Speaker: I can concentrate on my passion.
Speaker: My original passion has always been bass playing.
Speaker: I got kind of conned into doing lead vocals for drums and wires.
Speaker: And it was a real nice change to do the TSE stuff with you and Stu.
Speaker: Well, Stuart can relate to that because he told the story when we first tried to get Petzl Logic together, we had that session around Woody's.
Speaker: And then Stuart actually said, I think he wrote a blog about it on our website.
Speaker: It's no longer there, unfortunately.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, you said basically we just sort of, Stuart looked at Woody and I looked at Woody and looked at Stuart and some, I think Woody said, who's going to sing this?
Speaker: And I think Stuart said, well, I'll give it a go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think you, you, you said, Tony, you said, well, there's absolutely no way I can do it.
Speaker: I cannot sing.
Speaker: And I went, oh, bloody hell, I'll have to do it then.
Speaker: And that was literally the, what got me into singing?
Speaker: Oh, well, I'll have to do it then.
Speaker: And I didn't know what I was doing, but I somehow got away with it.
Speaker: I remember we took away that two track.
Speaker: It was like a two track tape recorder and Stuart had this red mini, had a mini at the time.
Speaker: Yeah, it did.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And literally that tape was playing.
Speaker: We were so amazed that we actually managed to record anything.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: For about like three weeks solid.
Speaker: And it was only a two chord song at the end of the day, wasn't it?
Speaker: I mean, it was called singing partly night.
Speaker: And then I tried to do some solo bit at the end.
Speaker: It was a bit of a disaster, but.
Speaker: I remember we played that tape for ages and ages.
Speaker: So, John, it's funny how some... That's a good segue, actually.
Speaker: Sorry, I'm going to interrupt you there.
Speaker: That's a great segue into what you said there is literally two chords.
Speaker: Into Handora as a song, as a pop song, is my favorite of practically everything I've written, I think, in terms of musically.
Speaker: Because it's really simple chords in it.
Speaker: It's Ds and As and Gs and D7s and what have you.
Speaker: But the way it's strung together is really smooth.
Speaker: It really works.
Speaker: It flows well.
Speaker: And if you can imagine Bob Dylan with an acoustic guitar or my great hero, Mike Scott, with an acoustic guitar, and Mike Scott's always a Bob Dylan fan anyway, playing the chords to Pandora and singing it in that vocalized sort of way, that's exactly how I saw Pandora when I first did it, when I wrote it.
Speaker: It's an easy song to sing and vocalize because there's not too much melody in it.
Speaker: And I really liked that when I was writing it because I was trying to make it sound like...
Speaker: you know, that I didn't have to add too much melody into it.
Speaker: And it just works.
Speaker: And out of all the songs, I really love the way the chords hang together on it.
Speaker: But it was just a demo with acoustic guitar.
Speaker: And when it goes over to you, Tony, and you come up with all these clever little ideas, I've got to say that chugging guitar, we all love that.
Speaker: That just works brilliantly.
Speaker: Ah, yes, the guitar.
Speaker: That's a different impression.
Speaker: That was fantastic.
Speaker: Yeah, you have to tip your hat or whatever they say to the edge then because that's just the standard sort of four dotted repeating guitar note.
Speaker: The reason why I went for that is I knew there had to be something different for the chorus.
Speaker: I mean, I had the verses pretty much worked out.
Speaker: The bit I really liked was the linked, actually the end of the chorus that goes into the verse, the chorus.
Speaker: And I found this preset.
Speaker: It was called Creepy Piano.
Speaker: And it had this really sort of like,
Speaker: kind of piano sound you hear in a horror movie when something terrible is about to happen and i just banged out the main melody and i thought yeah it's gonna be really cool because the end of that verse it's got a really strong uh hook i can't remember what the words are excuse me i know your words yes yeah no no the end of the verse or the end of the end of the first um go at the end of the first verse
Speaker: A stone's throw from St Paul's.
Speaker: He works in the city, a stone's throw from St Paul's, yeah.
Speaker: And I knew that bit musically had to sort of, in my mind, I told you before, I remember watching this movie called Bridget Jones, and there's a scene actually where Bridget Jones has just successfully scored with Hugh Grant, and she's all full of herself and confident, and she's walking across Wedge-Rindsville Bridge, or Waterloo Bridge, probably Waterloo Bridge, and she's got this swagger about her.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: A confident thorn.
Speaker: I thought that is Pandora.
Speaker: That is Pandora, but not putting jokes together.
Speaker: I wanted to put what I had in my mind into music.
Speaker: And what I wanted to do was have this swagger.
Speaker: So I knew I needed a bit that needed to be heavy.
Speaker: So after I came up with that creepy piano sound, I'd have put these really massive, huge guitar chords in the background, sort of block standard power chords.
Speaker: And then on top of that, I then put this huge great big brass behind it as well.
Speaker: So I really wanted that bit to sort of like really stand out.
Speaker: And the brass was almost like, you know, almost like a nod to this sort of like jazz, you know, sort of jazz sort of confident swing kind of feel to it.
Speaker: Yeah, we had some sort of keyboard brass dabs in the original version of it.
Speaker: And the original version of Pandora had chugging drums and it was really a boom, boom, boom, all the way through.
Speaker: I knew rather cleverly.
Speaker: I remember when you did it, I thought... At first, I thought, why has he dropped the drums out for the first verse?
Speaker: And it's just the strings and everything.
Speaker: And then I thought, that's a bit... That's not going to suit Pandora.
Speaker: And then when I did it, I listened to it, I thought, oh, my God, that totally suits this song, just to drop them out at the beginning and have, you know... Because it made me sing it in a different way normally.
Speaker: And I would have originally... I would have sung the first verse in a sort of, there's this worthy I see, you know, in a kind of...
Speaker: really, you know, loud and sort of Bob Dylan-y type way, but it made me sing it in a more, if this were the I see, because there was nothing there except the strings and I had to sing it in a quieter way and it really bloody worked, actually.
Speaker: I was really surprised.
Speaker: That was inspired.
Speaker: Once I'd actually found the patch, because I knew that I wanted to make it sound a little bit different at the beginning, once I'd found that string sound, I thought it would just sound lovely with your voice and the strings on its own.
Speaker: And then, of course,
Speaker: I don't know whether John, you recorded bass in the beginning.
Speaker: I might even just cut the bass out, but my thing was I wanted that classic.
Speaker: I wanted it.
Speaker: Yeah, we have to go new.
Speaker: I wanted that classic kind of drop.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Basically.
Speaker: I think also I had some kind of riser going on there.
Speaker: I had some effect in the background so that when it actually comes up and then you get the downbeat hits, the song really starts then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: When you actually, the introduction is, is half of the first verse.
Speaker: And then you go on to sing another second verse, or is that the same first?
Speaker: I can't remember.
Speaker: But anyway, I thought I thought second verse is half the first verse.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just the two lines instead of the four.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I thought that was really impactful.
Speaker: And then John comes in with the bass and the drums come in and then the song really takes off.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: And then, of course, I thought I had to do this sort of edge type guitar thing, which, yeah, was, I think also I thought it was a bit too much.
Speaker: And I thought, should I have it going on during the choruses as well?
Speaker: Yeah, just keep on in the chorus.
Speaker: Yeah, and it really takes off at that point, and that's what I think we all loved about it.
Speaker: And out of all the songs we recorded on the Where Are The Angels album, for me, Pandora is firstly my favourite vocal take of mine, and secondly, as a song, it's probably the one I like listening to most.
Speaker: It's not the one I'm most proud of, but it is the one I like listening to most because it just sounds great.
Speaker: It's professional.
Speaker: It just sounds really well arranged and...
Speaker: There's nothing really, you can sort of pick a hole in it.
Speaker: It just hangs together.
Speaker: It's really good.
Speaker: I also thought John, I want to say, going back to John bit in the bass, because she takes taxi cabs, iPhone haps.
Speaker: There's a story about that.
Speaker: I'll tell you that later.
Speaker: The kind of bass line John did there, that was actually, that sounded very good, but it sounded almost like, it's not a cliche bass line, but I thought that was quite a way of, what do you call that, when you were sort of running up, you're going, doon doon doon
Speaker: I've got a pretty good idea that that section is in a minor key.
Speaker: So it kind of created some difficulty with me doing it all on the bottom frets.
Speaker: So that's what I did, basically, is when it goes, it goes... It is minor.
Speaker: Taxi cabs.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: iPhone apps.
Speaker: And then I went...
Speaker: And that's just basically doing the same thing up four frets.
Speaker: No, that was really good because that links actually quite nicely.
Speaker: It's a good way to link into the chorus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You go back to a more traditional, I would say more traditional, the baseline following.
Speaker: As I say, that was basically...
Speaker: a kind of take on a kind of funky bass line, except, you know, instead of going boom, boom, boom, sort of like the fretboard, you're just doing four frets, you know, like, for instance, I think it was D, D sharp, E, E sharp.
Speaker: I didn't know you could play that many notes, John, actually, I was quite shocked.
Speaker: Yeah, well, it's easy if you get the pattern.
Speaker: You know, I mean, you just gaze.
Speaker: All you need to do is slide up the fret that you're playing.
Speaker: It sounds more complicated than it is, but, yeah.
Speaker: Obviously, it takes brilliance in here to actually even... Years of experience and talent beyond questions.
Speaker: Experience for bloody years, mate.
Speaker: Yeah, there was a thing actually, Stu, I interrupted you.
Speaker: Stu?
Speaker: Who's Stu?
Speaker: Stu.
Speaker: iPhone apps.
Speaker: I don't think that was originally the lyric, was it?
Speaker: Now, this is the big reveal about today's podcast, the big reveal about Pandora and the words to Pandora.
Speaker: I changed them.
Speaker: The original words, the original words for the bridge were, she takes taxi cabs.
Speaker: Can you guess what the next one is?
Speaker: No, you can't.
Speaker: I think I know what it was.
Speaker: Philofax.
Speaker: Philofax.
Speaker: Not through tablet income tax.
Speaker: It's showing its age, isn't it?
Speaker: And it was like late 80s, early 90s lyric.
Speaker: And I thought, nah, that's not good.
Speaker: So I was struggling.
Speaker: I was, you know, walking, again, probably walking the dog one day.
Speaker: I can't remember exactly.
Speaker: But anyway, thinking, what am I going to put in here that's up to date and that my daughter would recognize?
Speaker: And I was trying to get Instagram and Facebook and social media in there somehow.
Speaker: And then it just came out and just rhymed into the cabs and apps and tacks.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Oh, apps.
Speaker: Yeah, iPhone apps.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, yeah, we just put in iPhone apps and I played it to, I think it was one of my brothers I played it to because he, and he knows the original song and he said,
Speaker: I'm not sure about that.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: Well, there's no way I'm leaving Filofax in there.
Speaker: You forget it.
Speaker: You could have used... Have you got tax and cabs?
Speaker: So what do you... I don't know.
Speaker: I'm so limited.
Speaker: Taxi clabs.
Speaker: Massive baps.
Speaker: Massive baps.
Speaker: Bacon baps.
Speaker: Bacon baps.
Speaker: And this is why Stuart writes lyrics for Arthur.
Speaker: No, I don't know what Pandora would do.
Speaker: Would she take iPhone apps and mess around with those on her phone, but I'm not sure Pandora had massive baps anyway and whether she definitely wouldn't eat her bacon bat.
Speaker: Well, she'd eat edamame beans and something like that, you know.
Speaker: She'd take Pepsi caps and...
Speaker: Pandora sounds like a posh woman actually sort of like she is quite yeah I just wanted to say that this is always the kind of girl that I always probably would dream about dating but knew I have absolutely zero chance I probably wouldn't even be worthy of a glance even if actually we're in a room and there was nobody in it apart from me and her she probably still wouldn't look at me actually in the face yeah he's probably right
Speaker: I think I did.
Speaker: You look any of us in this face.
Speaker: Feel better, mate.
Speaker: Because Pandora, you know, she was she was earning big money, you know, and today Pandora would be earning six figures, you know, in the city.
Speaker: She'd be working for some insurance bank or insurance company and she'd be.
Speaker: you know, she'd be a wealthy girl and she wouldn't date anyone unless they were, you know, A, brilliant looking and B, had pots and pots of money and stuff like that.
Speaker: That's how I view it.
Speaker: That's how I view it.
Speaker: No, I mean, that's the impression that I got from reading the lyric.
Speaker: And I don't know, I think actually, did you submit a singing version where you said file of facts or maybe I saw some text?
Speaker: No, I didn't.
Speaker: I just put it text.
Speaker: I got rid of that.
Speaker: and um it wasn't one of the songs that you originally sent me and tony of pillow fights back was it you know the the kind of album that was never released because i've still some it was an old it was an older song but
Speaker: The band never, we never recorded it.
Speaker: It was never, no, it was just, it was a demo that we worked on and I had a, they had some sort of ideas for it.
Speaker: And I think we recorded, we rehearsed it live once or twice, never ever really made the set or did anything.
Speaker: And looking back now,
Speaker: I can't understand why, because for me, it was one of my, certainly one of my favorite lyrics and it's simple.
Speaker: And as I said, written in the third person, it's one of, one of the best songs we did, but certainly the best song I've, one of the best songs I've written.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I have to, I have to say that from my, of all the vocal performances, I mean, I can't sing, so I'm not very good judge.
Speaker: And I think both of you on the album, brilliant, brilliant lyrics, but Stuart, you did all the vocals, but I remember actually you did the session with the backing vocals, I think separate to the main vocal.
Speaker: And I remember you sent over the backing vocals.
Speaker: And then I was really, really convinced this was going to be a great song because the backing vocals, especially in the last chorus,
Speaker: Um, they, they must be, we, we talked about this.
Speaker: Well, I've, I've sent you messages on this and just saying this has to be inspired by the beach boys and maybe pet sounds because those harmonies are just so classic.
Speaker: And for me, actually at the moment I heard them and I listened to them on my laptop in GarageBand before I'd even exported them and brought them into my session, I just thought this is going to work.
Speaker: That's just really going to work.
Speaker: They're really great.
Speaker: I think they were just thirds.
Speaker: And I think what I did on Pandora, I think it was your idea, was I recorded the lead vocal.
Speaker: I did three takes on the lead vocal.
Speaker: So we had a center, a left and a right band that you could do.
Speaker: And then with the harmonies, I think I just did two on each harmony.
Speaker: And I think it was only, I've got a feeling they were just thirds.
Speaker: And I added in a higher one for the last choruses.
Speaker: So I think there were two harmonies backing up the main vocal in the last chorus.
Speaker: But in the other choruses, I think it's just the one harmony, but it's so simple and it follows the main vocal so easily.
Speaker: Yeah, that will... Simple things.
Speaker: That's my favorite part.
Speaker: My big problem with this song, if I was actually sort of putting an objective producer's hat on, is that there isn't much variation musically.
Speaker: And basically the last verse is just...
Speaker: in a different key but essentially it's the same song with the same words and i i probably would thought oh this is sounding a little bit too same and the samey the word i meant to say it just shifts up a tone doesn't it at the end i don't know it probably goes up half a tone or a tone i'm not too sure it's just two frets as far as i know that's all i know on my guitar those those those different backing vocals really made it and i think we get away with it because you did actually introduce
Speaker: as you say, maybe an extra vocal that was an octave higher or lower, but it really does actually make the song.
Speaker: The other problem that I had with the song was the guitar solo, because I'm an absolute crap guitar player.
Speaker: Well, I'm not.
Speaker: I really had, I probably said, oh, I'm not having that.
Speaker: No, there's that guy in Guildford.
Speaker: He's worse.
Speaker: He's worse.
Speaker: He's worse.
Speaker: That was for me towers, wasn't it?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That was a major, I tell you, I, that, that guitar, so I had lots of problem with, I don't know how many takes that I, and I spent most of my time mixing that guitar sound, trying to get the tone that I like.
Speaker: I actually, in the end, I tried to do something that was in my head that I wanted to play.
Speaker: And in the end I gave up and I just went back to your original demo recording and I just basically copied it with a couple of.
Speaker: I did a little guitar solo for you, didn't I?
Speaker: You did a little guitar solo?
Speaker: Yeah, which I kind of... I'm not a guitarist either.
Speaker: In fact, I'm even worse than Sony, to be honest.
Speaker: But, yeah, I remember putting a little guitar solo on it with my little Fender here, my Tele.
Speaker: And I was quite pleased with it because I had a quite nice... I had some plug-in, you know, effect on it.
Speaker: And I thought, yeah, I've actually done a solo and it's not too bad.
Speaker: And you took it.
Speaker: And I think you took bits of it and made it just a bit better, which is what you do.
Speaker: So yeah, that's exactly it because I was actually writing a completely different solo.
Speaker: And then I thought, oh, I don't like guitar solos.
Speaker: I'm going to put a keyboard solo in and side it against that.
Speaker: And I went back to original idea.
Speaker: I did try and take the DI, the direct input.
Speaker: So in other words, I stripped your take of all the effects.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Add my own effects and it kind of almost worked.
Speaker: And I thought, no, I'm going to have a stab at this.
Speaker: I'm going to see whether I can just add it.
Speaker: And I think I literally just learned your solo note for note.
Speaker: And then I just added a couple of bits.
Speaker: I actually added the music to this album.
Speaker: I added a couple of bits and pieces.
Speaker: But for me, the solo was my Achilles heel.
Speaker: And every time I was playing back, I kind of, you know, oh, that's the good.
Speaker: that the solo is coming up.
Speaker: I really don't like this solo.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, I kind of swallowed it.
Speaker: You guys said it was okay.
Speaker: So yeah, and that was the complete package.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And the song actually turned out a lot better than I thought, because as I said, I really struggled with the production initially.
Speaker: I mean, it was literally about like a week and a half where I just came downstairs here to my small cellar home studio.
Speaker: I opened up my session.
Speaker: I looked at the screen and thought, what the hell am I going to do with this song?
Speaker: Planned your waders waded through the gallons of water in your cellar.
Speaker: I got my canoe.
Speaker: I had to sort of find a noise gate, filter out the noise from the ducks, you know, set the threshold about like 40 DB.
Speaker: And so the obviously crunch, you know, pushes the sound.
Speaker: So no, anyway, that, that, that actually turned out, um, I wouldn't say it's my favorite song on the album, but I do realize it's got massive pop potential and your vocals and John's bass work, absolutely brilliant.
Speaker: Um, I'm just not a hundred percent sure that I did it justice with the production.
Speaker: And also I still have these concerns about the end of the song, just being a basic repeat of the, the, the beginning of the song.
Speaker: The, the, I really liked the link, right.
Speaker: I talked about with the big brass and the piano and she works in the city of stone's throw from support.
Speaker: So I really, really love that bit.
Speaker: Actually, that's one of my favorite writing bits on the entire album.
Speaker: But the song is saved, I think, because it's only like 2 minutes 80 seconds.
Speaker: It's a short song.
Speaker: So I think that's over before you know it, isn't it?
Speaker: 2 minutes 80, that's 3 minutes 20, isn't it?
Speaker: Is it 3 minutes?
Speaker: This isn't my strong point.
Speaker: 80 seconds in a minute.
Speaker: Oh, my God.
Speaker: What's going on?
Speaker: Tony, I don't think you need to worry about that.
Speaker: what you did with that song is stupendous.
Speaker: Yeah, it is.
Speaker: It's done now.
Speaker: You can't revisit it.
Speaker: No, I can't.
Speaker: I don't need to.
Speaker: One song I play to my friends, if someone, a friend or someone that hasn't
Speaker: heard the album says oh we're gonna listen to a track i'll always put on pandora i don't know why i just do it because i'm proud a i think my voice sounds okay in it and some of the other songs i'm not that happy with and b as i said earlier it sounds really slick and it works it just works and i really like that about pandora
Speaker: The thing that really did hit me was the enthusiasm.
Speaker: When we finished it, you guys came back and you were sort of saying, it's the best song on the album.
Speaker: It's fantastic.
Speaker: Oh, God, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, there was so much love for it.
Speaker: We were then being sure, didn't we?
Speaker: Not really.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Not all the time, John.
Speaker: All the time.
Speaker: That was one of the instants, though.
Speaker: I think Born to be Free, Pandora...
Speaker: I could see your face, for instance, you know, the others take some time to.
Speaker: I think what was also nice about the song is with angels and with I can see your face is literally we'd heard them for so long, for like a year and a half.
Speaker: It was just a question of, you know, obviously we like the songs, but.
Speaker: we were so tied up in doing a professional job when Pandora come along.
Speaker: I'd never heard it before.
Speaker: John, you'd never heard it before.
Speaker: It was really exciting to work on something fresh.
Speaker: It was like, it was almost like working on new material.
Speaker: And I think that was also something that was actually different about it as well.
Speaker: Perhaps that's why we were so hyper about it.
Speaker: And the same pattern followed when we did
Speaker: The Girl from Devon and also Mr. Heartache.
Speaker: I'd heard Mr. Heartache before.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It wasn't sort of like one of the old songs that we'd been playing and recording various versions on for like a year and a half leading up to when we did these last three or four songs because these last three or four songs were probably the last three or four songs we did before we released the album, didn't we?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: And, well, the next podcast will be Mr. Heartache.
Speaker: No, it's going to be a wrong story.
Speaker: And then The Girl from Devon, which closes the album, as we know.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Yeah, looking forward to that one.
Speaker: But for the time being, we are up to 30 minutes here.
Speaker: So we're probably nearly at all.
Speaker: Is that what we normally do?
Speaker: Half an hour?
Speaker: We normally do about 30 minutes, 40 minutes.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I think the thing actually, I didn't know Pandora was based on Miranda.
Speaker: I actually knew Miranda, as you know.
Speaker: That was interesting.
Speaker: So I learned something.
Speaker: I always learned something from these podcasts that I didn't know, either about the music or about, well, the lives that we had and we shared all those years ago.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And really, it was just, I don't quite know why her nickname was Pandora, because she was she was a funny girl.
Speaker: She, her father was governor of the Virgin Islands, British Virgin Islands.
Speaker: And so she lived in the UK with me and her parents were miles and miles and miles away.
Speaker: And we only were together for a year or two.
Speaker: But for some reason, she got this nickname Pandora.
Speaker: And so I just used it.
Speaker: But it's definitely not about her.
Speaker: She was nothing like Pandora.
Speaker: Wasn't there any in jury song called Pandora or something?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: He did a song called Profoundly In Love With Pandora, which was about Adrian Mole, wasn't it?
Speaker: The Adrian Mole story.
Speaker: Oh, isn't it?
Speaker: Yeah, and also the very great Cocteau Twins, who back in the early 80s I loved, and really different, unusual band.
Speaker: They had an album of songs which had really weird titles, and one of those was Pandora, but that had nothing to do with this, it's just coincidental.
Speaker: And these days, Pandora is obviously little bracelets and jewellery for women, isn't it?
Speaker: Yeah, of course.
Speaker: I had to put a spam filter on my mailbox because I kept getting emails asking me to buy stuff from Pandora.
Speaker: Eventually I had to pick my whitelist on my email.
Speaker: I got fed up with getting emails asking me to buy stuff from Pandora.
Speaker: Last question I wanted to mention was, do we think this is the best song on the album?
Speaker: And is it your favorite song on the album?
Speaker: John?
Speaker: It's a toss up between this one and Born To Be Free.
Speaker: I kind of differentiate.
Speaker: If I listen to the whole album,
Speaker: I love it all.
Speaker: I think it's all brilliant.
Speaker: But I do think Pandora is an outstanding song.
Speaker: Like a true diplomat.
Speaker: Usually my favourite because I just love the way I was let loose on the bass on that song.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But that's probably a personal reason that I like it so much.
Speaker: Well, I'm going to say... Same with Born to be Free, really.
Speaker: I mean, that was pretty whappy bass lines.
Speaker: Yeah, you were able to go... Yeah, you were able to do your thing, weren't you?
Speaker: Which is great.
Speaker: Stuart, I mean, although I love I Can See Your Face, Stuart has different reasons to love that song because of the meaning of the lyric, the writing of the lyric, and everything else.
Speaker: I have a reason to love that song because it was one that...
Speaker: you know, just totally needed a different feel and there was so much atmosphere in it and it really disciplined me.
Speaker: Stretch you to the limit as well by the sounds of it.
Speaker: On the bass, actually, yeah.
Speaker: But I was pleased with the way it turned out and yeah, on a musical, you know, if we're talking the best musical song, I think I can see your face wins hands down for keyboards, bass, vocals, everything.
Speaker: So you're nearly there with Pandora.
Speaker: It's kind of like very close to your favourite.
Speaker: Well, I think Pandora is my favourite.
Speaker: Okay, okay.
Speaker: You said it.
Speaker: If somebody said, if I was pressed to say...
Speaker: we're going to play one track from the TSE album, which one would you want to hear?
Speaker: It would be Pandora.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm exactly the same.
Speaker: I would say as a recording and as a song I turn to to listen to, Pandora is the one that I listen to most.
Speaker: My favourite song, the song I'm most proud of, as you all know, is The Girl From Devon.
Speaker: But I would say, in terms of listening to, I would rather listen to Pandora than I would our recording of The Girl From Devon, purely on a vocal level.
Speaker: I didn't sing The Girl From Devon as well as I sung Pandora.
Speaker: And it's just me picking myself apart, as singers always do.
Speaker: We all do it, don't we?
Speaker: What we recorded.
Speaker: Unnecessarily singers, because we're all a bunch of arseholes, to be honest.
Speaker: But there we go.
Speaker: No, I don't call myself as a singer, Stu.
Speaker: No, you're fantastic.
Speaker: bass players so you're a singer who sings i'll play bass yeah i'm not a singer that can't play bass guitar or drum i don't know why i said yes actually back there because i can't sing at all it's a stupid thing it's just yeah pandora is the one i turn to but i'd say pandora face i can see your face and the girl from devon are the three favorites for me
Speaker: And Pandora's the one I go to.
Speaker: The song that I love, and people seem to come to me and say, oh, my God, that's so original, is Where Are the Angels, weirdly.
Speaker: But Pandora's the one I turn to, and if I want to listen to a song or play something to my friends to illustrate what we've done, then it will be, hey, listen to this, because I like the chugging this, and I think I'm proud of it because it sounds really professional.
Speaker: And then, as I say, Face is different.
Speaker: It's got a certain vibe to it.
Speaker: It's like everybody tapping their feet on it.
Speaker: Well, I would say I've always had difficulty when people, you know, we talk about our favorite song or best song on the album, but I got a good way to get out of it.
Speaker: I could say it's the best pop song on the album.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Agreed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That gets me out of talking about Born to be Free.
Speaker: I know you like Born to be Free.
Speaker: I know you do.
Speaker: And why not?
Speaker: I quite like it.
Speaker: But I mean, I'm going to, I have to actually, I haven't listened to the album for a few months.
Speaker: I have to listen to it again.
Speaker: No, I haven't for a while.
Speaker: I'll have to give it a listen.
Speaker: And not just actually in AirPods or on headphones.
Speaker: Just put it on a CD and just listen to it from a couple of speakers.
Speaker: Right, guys.
Speaker: We're down the 40-minute mark.
Speaker: I think that's about it.
Speaker: I'll just do my usual saying thanks for dropping by on a, what is it, Wednesday afternoon and spending time talking about how crap we are.
Speaker: Fantastic.
Speaker: Pleasure.
Speaker: We are not crap.
Speaker: And John?
Speaker: Yes, mate?
Speaker: What's happening with, you've got an EP coming out.
Speaker: Do a quick plug.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, EP coming out sometime in July.
Speaker: Can't do a plug because I don't know what exact date, but so that's five track EP that's coming out sometime in July.
Speaker: It's coming out on Bandcamp on the 2nd of July.
Speaker: Brilliant.
Speaker: So we're doing a CD version, but I need to get a little bit more of a crowdfunding and some pre-orders to actually afford to do that.
Speaker: Well, I hope you're giving away some free badges.
Speaker: By the way, I still don't have that Sformado Effect badge.
Speaker: I'm getting more to Stuart.
Speaker: They're in the drawer just behind me.
Speaker: I'll send you one.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: I'll bring them over in September.
Speaker: Yeah, I've got to get Parker on a scooter first, mate.
Speaker: The badge can come later.
Speaker: I can send you a drums and wires badge, Tony, that you could affix to your parker and look ridiculous.
Speaker: Thanks very much.
Speaker: I look forward to getting a free copy of the EP as well, signed by all the band.
Speaker: We'll send you both a free copy of the EP.
Speaker: You know, whether you use it as a placemat or whether you listen to it is up to you.
Speaker: So on that note, guys, I'll say au revoir and good night and until the next podcast where we talk about Mr. Artake.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Good night.
Speaker: Good night.
Speaker: Adios amigos.
Speaker: Good night.
