Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
93: Worldwise Learning w/ Carla Marschall & Elizabeth Crawford
17 Plays4 years ago
Today we are joined by Carla Marschall and Elizabeth Crawford to cover their upcoming book, Worldwise Learning: A Teacher's Guide to Shaping a Just, Sustainable Future. I was fortunate to receive an advance copy, and Worldwise Learning is all about inquiry and experiential education: shaping global citizens by tackling real world issues in projects. The book walks teachers through the "inquiry cycle", which helps students "connect, understand, and act." It's filled with activities, diagrams, and charts, to co-create with students in planning a serious, in-depth project.
We talk about:
- What makes "Worldwise Learning" different than something more generalized, like experiential education?
- How do we balance, or do we balance, between student interest and introducing what could be deemed as "controversial" topics?
- How do we allow space for co-created projects when there's limited perceived time and structure in most/many schools?
GUESTS
Carla Marschall, an experienced educator who has worked in various international schools from Germany to Hong Kong to Switzerland to Singapore. She is now the Director of Teaching & Learning at UWC South East Asia, and previously co-wrote Concept-Based Inquiry in Action
Elizabeth Crawford, an Associate Professor of Elementary Education at the University of North Carolina Wilmington. She specializes in global education and works with teacher educators and organizations to advance the Sustainable Development Goals, tackling interconnected global challenges in the classroom
RESOURCES
- Worldwide Learning: A Teacher's Guide to Shaping a Just, Sustainable World (available Sept 2021)
FURTHER LISTENING
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Acknowledgements
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to episode 93 of our podcast at Human Restoration Project.
00:00:10
Speaker
My name is Chris McNutt, and I'm a high school digital media instructor from Ohio.
00:00:14
Speaker
Before we get started, I want to let you know that this is brought to you by our supporters, three of whom are Jeremiah Henderson, Skylar Prim, and Megan Lambert.
00:00:22
Speaker
Thank you for your ongoing support.
00:00:24
Speaker
You can learn more about the Human Restoration Project on our website, humanrestorationproject.org, or find us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook.
Worldwise Learning Discussion
00:00:44
Speaker
Today, we are joined by Carla Marshall and Elizabeth Crawford to cover their upcoming book, Worldwise Learning, A Teacher's Guide to Shaping a Just Sustainable Future.
00:00:52
Speaker
I was fortunate to receive an advance copy, and Worldwise Learning is all about inquiry and experiential education, shaping global citizens by tackling real-world issues and projects.
00:01:02
Speaker
The book walks teachers through the inquiry cycle, which helps students connect, understand, and act.
00:01:07
Speaker
It's filled with activities, diagrams, and charts to co-create with students in planning a serious, in-depth project.
00:01:13
Speaker
Karla is an experienced educator who has worked in various international schools from Germany to Hong Kong to Switzerland to Singapore.
00:01:20
Speaker
She is now the Director of Teaching and Learning at UWC Southeast Asia and previously co-wrote Concept-Based Inquiry in Action.
00:01:27
Speaker
Elizabeth is an Associate Professor of Elementary Education at the University of North Carolina Wilmington.
00:01:31
Speaker
She specializes in global education and works with teacher educators and organizations to advance the sustainable development goals, tackling interconnected global challenges in the classroom.
00:01:40
Speaker
You can pre-order WorldWise Learning on the Core One website, which is found in the show notes, which releases in September.
00:01:46
Speaker
Starting off, here's Carla.
00:01:49
Speaker
through my work with concept-based teaching and learning.
00:01:51
Speaker
So as I was working overseas, I got really interested in this idea that we can kind of future-proof the learning by making sure that students walk away with deep conceptual understandings that transfer to new situations and contexts, not just kind of, you know, facts and skills, which represents, you know, today's most important learning.
00:02:10
Speaker
And I wrote a book with Rachel French called Concept-Based Inquiry and Action.
00:02:14
Speaker
So Elizabeth started using that in her graduate class.
00:02:18
Speaker
I zoomed in and talked to graduate students.
00:02:21
Speaker
And then we were like, hey, I'm really interested in this idea about bringing together issues-based learning and identity-centered learning and culturally sustaining practices and global competence and kind of putting it together.
Digital Collaboration and Project-Based Challenges
00:02:33
Speaker
And she's like, oh, I had the same idea too.
00:02:34
Speaker
So we got started on this right before the pandemic started, actually, which is not a great time to start writing a book.
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:45
Speaker
when you've got young children, but it worked out.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, so it's quite interesting how our paths kind of connected.
00:02:55
Speaker
We actually haven't met each other like in the flesh.
00:02:58
Speaker
Our whole relationship has been mediated through digital spaces because of the pandemic.
00:03:05
Speaker
So it does show you kind of the possibilities of the current context, but also then challenges as well.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, that concept of having a framework or guide to help you plan this stuff definitely rings true.
00:03:18
Speaker
I remember when I first started teaching, even after student teaching, when I stepped into the classroom for the first time and realized like,
00:03:26
Speaker
man, I'm kind of doing this all on my own.
00:03:28
Speaker
I kind of assume when I was younger and going through the motions that it was just some plan that someone had that we were all just following, but there is so much freedom and with that responsibility to doing this stuff.
00:03:39
Speaker
And that kind of builds into the need for worldwide learning.
00:03:43
Speaker
This book that guides, as you say, a just sustainable future through experiential education and many other things involving global consciousness.
Purposeful Engagement in Learning
00:03:53
Speaker
And I want to call out a graphic that appears really early on in the book.
00:03:57
Speaker
It showcases purposeful engagement.
00:04:00
Speaker
You call it pedagogy for people, planet, and prosperity, which I've got framing a lot.
00:04:05
Speaker
And it highlights how we can move through connecting and understanding and acting towards addressing issues at all these different levels.
00:04:12
Speaker
Could you just talk a little bit about the title of the book and also what the frameworks call this world-wise learning versus maybe more of a more broader concept like experiential learning?
00:04:23
Speaker
I think it really comes down to the intention and purpose of the learning.
00:04:27
Speaker
So just to have that counterpoint, you mentioned, okay, how does it differ to experiential learning?
00:04:32
Speaker
So I think experiential learning is sometimes framed as a way to engage students or to increase motivation, but it's within the same educational paradigm that we currently have in many schools around the world.
00:04:47
Speaker
And so we want to use experiential learning as
00:04:51
Speaker
as a way to connect students to neighborhoods and to communities.
00:04:55
Speaker
We want the broader idea is really about transforming schools to become humanizing spaces, whereas the learning relates to the lived experiences of students.
00:05:07
Speaker
So the idea of experiential isn't like, oh, I'm going to give you a nice experience now because it somehow engages you more in this topic.
00:05:14
Speaker
It's nowhere going to engage in experiential learning because that's the way that you can actually see what's happening around you in the world.
00:05:22
Speaker
So I think that purpose is slightly different.
00:05:25
Speaker
So what you referred to, the worldwide learning cycle, has a few components of it that helps to synthesize what we mean by worldwide learning.
00:05:33
Speaker
I mean, the first is that we center the curriculum on issues of significance, which might be local, global, or intercultural, with this idea that
00:05:45
Speaker
If we use these issues as organizers for learning, then we can actually create cohesion and connectedness for our students and provide access points for interdisciplinary thinking.
00:05:58
Speaker
So it doesn't have to be that everything in the curriculum is
00:06:01
Speaker
kind of abstracted, disciplinary, partitioned into these boxes.
00:06:06
Speaker
But actually, if we start using issues which are naturally interdisciplinary, we can start to use that as a focal point that brings together these disparate pieces of knowledge.
00:06:17
Speaker
So this kind of allows for a student interest-led or passion-led or concern-led approach.
00:06:23
Speaker
So we're actually able to ask students what are they interested in in the world and try to bring that into our teaching and learning experiences.
00:06:32
Speaker
So it gives them an opportunity for voice and agency.
00:06:35
Speaker
And then also through this cycle of connecting, which we mean by taking perspectives or thinking through narratives and stories as a way to understand issues,
00:06:47
Speaker
understanding, so looking both at the conceptual level, but thinking at the kind of systems level too.
00:06:53
Speaker
So thinking holistically about issues and then through acting as global citizens, then we can kind of close the loop for our learners.
00:07:01
Speaker
So it doesn't have to be that you learn something in English or mathematics and then you're hypothetically speaking going to be able to use it in 10 years.
00:07:09
Speaker
It's like, no, no, no, you're going to use it tomorrow or next week because we've constructed this environment where the
00:07:15
Speaker
intention and assumption is that you're going to be an active participant in the environment.
00:07:20
Speaker
So both of you are educators.
00:07:22
Speaker
What does it look like in practice?
00:07:24
Speaker
Could you give me an example of what a good
Practical Examples in Classrooms
00:07:27
Speaker
unit or project or whatever you might want to call it a day in the life of oral wise learning is?
00:07:33
Speaker
I can give an example from kindergarten.
00:07:36
Speaker
I also teach grade seven social studies.
00:07:38
Speaker
So in terms of what this looks like for younger students, because I think the question is always, oh, well, that's fine.
00:07:45
Speaker
You can do that with high school students or maybe 13 year olds, but you surely can't do that with five year olds.
00:07:50
Speaker
So kindergartners using local garden spaces as a way to inquire into pollinators.
00:07:56
Speaker
So we know that pollinators are a significant issue, both at the local level, but also globally, because we're having die outs of colonies.
00:08:05
Speaker
So colony collapse disorder, and we need them for our food production.
00:08:10
Speaker
So 70% of all food is pollinated by, you know, bees, butterflies, wasps, etc.
00:08:17
Speaker
So this is really significant for us to be able to tackle as an issue.
00:08:21
Speaker
So it's age appropriate because, you know, what young child is not interested in, you know, that life cycle, you know, and that's something that you would normally see in a kindergarten class, you know, oh, it's the egg, and then it's the caterpillar, and then it's in the chrysalis, and then it's the butterfly.
00:08:36
Speaker
But the question is then how do you contextualize that learning about life cycles?
00:08:39
Speaker
How do you make it meaningful?
00:08:41
Speaker
I've engaged in a project with five-year-olds where we've gone to local pollinator gardens looking for different stages of pollinators.
00:08:49
Speaker
So looking at them in their different forms, taking photographs,
00:08:53
Speaker
looking at the relationships between pollinators and other animals in that environment, the fact that there are some birds that also drink nectar, so they have competition in the habitat, or predator-prey relationships, so you'll have lizards or spiders or whatnot that are also potentially eating the caterpillars and the butterflies.
00:09:11
Speaker
And so doing that over time.
00:09:13
Speaker
So not just like a one-off, I'm going to visit once and then maybe do some artwork about butterflies, but actually going...
00:09:20
Speaker
multiple times in multiple conditions.
00:09:22
Speaker
So going in the morning, going in the afternoon, going when it might be before a rainstorm.
00:09:26
Speaker
And then you actually start to see how the behavior of the animals changes based on their local conditions.
00:09:31
Speaker
And you're also able to go and kind of check in on chrysalises that you knew were in certain spots and see what happens.
00:09:38
Speaker
So with this particular unit, there was so much motivation and interest and kind of sense of agency over these creatures that, you know, there was the question of,
00:09:48
Speaker
excuse me, the question of how do we create our own conditions to support pollinators where we are?
00:09:55
Speaker
You know, so how can we have more flowering plants?
00:09:57
Speaker
How can we make sure we find out what host plants might be for the caterpillars to be able to eat?
00:10:03
Speaker
How can we be stewards of these animals so that they have, you know, these little niches where they can survive and thrive?
00:10:13
Speaker
And so I think that that's just like a very short example to illustrate that
00:10:20
Speaker
The power comes through giving students space to actually start seeing the interconnectedness between this issue of pollinators and other things that are happening in the world, like farming and the need for pollinators to be helping us in farming.
00:10:37
Speaker
And then thinking about, well, what should we do about this now?
00:10:41
Speaker
How should we help these animals?
00:10:42
Speaker
And it's not, oh, we're going to tell the farmers what to do.
00:10:45
Speaker
It's actually, what can I do?
00:10:47
Speaker
How can it start with me?
00:10:49
Speaker
That empathy and compassion piece seems to be really underlying a lot of this.
00:10:54
Speaker
We're not only gaining, obviously, academic knowledge, but I'm assuming that as these students will grow older, because they feel that connectedness to these ideas that should, in theory, make them more empathetic as they grow older.
00:11:09
Speaker
And I think making that ongoing is super key.
00:11:11
Speaker
Also, just to recognizing the importance of other subject areas, whether that be the core subject areas or everything else.
00:11:17
Speaker
I teach digital design, so I am
00:11:20
Speaker
usually the person who someone just finished a unit and they're like, hey, can you do an art project with the kids about the book we read?
00:11:26
Speaker
And it's like, I can.
00:11:28
Speaker
That's not really like the coolest thing to do.
00:11:30
Speaker
We could do something a little bit more meaningful with it.
00:11:33
Speaker
So I really like that concept of you can instill art through it, but it's not the end product.
00:11:37
Speaker
The end product is meant to actually change something or make a difference or even self-reflect on it and make a difference through that.
00:11:43
Speaker
I work with adult learners, so they're practicing designing these types of learning experiences, and then they go into the field and pilot them and their field experience.
00:11:52
Speaker
And a lot of the curricula that my students design and take into the field is, is a completely new approach for public school teachers here in this region.
00:12:02
Speaker
And I think it opens up the teacher's eyes to the opportunities of the standards, because we see the standards, you know, very concretely like a checklist and, um,
00:12:13
Speaker
because my students design these integrated issues around local matters or also global issues that the teachers see connections they didn't
Balancing Curriculum with Student Interests
00:12:22
Speaker
see before.
00:12:22
Speaker
So I'll give one example.
00:12:24
Speaker
Some students designed a unit of study on consumerism, piloted in a local fifth grade classroom, and it connected across subject areas to so many different concepts related to
00:12:37
Speaker
supply and demand, properties of materials.
00:12:41
Speaker
They took a field trip to the local landfill.
00:12:44
Speaker
They were able to learn about leachate and then what the university's doing, what kind of innovative practices they're using with developing these marine environments to filter the water.
00:12:56
Speaker
and how people are designing solutions to solve these problems.
00:13:00
Speaker
And so because my students bring them into the classroom, they're able to show public school teachers what's possible in ways they weren't doing before.
00:13:10
Speaker
Because as I was as a teacher, most subjects areas are taught very discreetly because you're given a pacing guide and you're expected to
00:13:19
Speaker
prepare for this benchmark test every nine weeks.
00:13:22
Speaker
And so the curriculum is sort of dictated backwards from those tests.
00:13:26
Speaker
And so what I try to do is show them a different way to approach teaching and learning.
00:13:30
Speaker
Right, right.
00:13:31
Speaker
I wonder if you can then help me with a hurdle that often comes about in planning PBL.
00:13:37
Speaker
And this is something that our school struggled with for years until we cohorted, which fixed this problem.
00:13:42
Speaker
So there's a system that does fix this.
00:13:44
Speaker
What happens when, this is especially true in middle school and high school, you're planning a project and you're starting from the standards and you're planning like, hey, I want to do a project involving pollinator gardens.
00:13:54
Speaker
And then you have students in three different levels of math or two different levels of science who are in your class.
00:14:00
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, then you have students who are working in this science class who aren't in your class anymore.
00:14:06
Speaker
They're in the next level up, like they're not in ninth grade English, they're in 10th grade English.
00:14:10
Speaker
Because how do you deal with all the different classes that start to get involved when you start co-planning?
00:14:16
Speaker
So I think there's a few ways around the challenges that you described.
00:14:21
Speaker
So one thing that some schools do is they collapse a timetable for a certain period of time to do projects.
00:14:30
Speaker
So we worked with a school in China who does SDG projects across the range of kind of 14 to 15.
00:14:39
Speaker
17-year-olds where they have them get in mixed groups and then they choose an SDG of interest, explore that and think about what solutions they could devise within a week that would relate to that particular issue.
00:14:52
Speaker
So I think that in that way, you can actually have those opportunities for just right teaching and
00:14:58
Speaker
For kids who maybe don't have the content knowledge or skills to be able to be successful in a project, but you more generally change the way that time is allocated so it doesn't become disjointed for our learners.
00:15:12
Speaker
Because the timetable is a huge impediment to be doing quality, deep learning.
00:15:18
Speaker
learning in an interdisciplinary way.
00:15:21
Speaker
So that's one thing.
00:15:22
Speaker
I think the other thing that I think about when you describe that is just universal design for learning.
00:15:28
Speaker
So how can we make sure that whatever we're doing with our students works for all students?
00:15:34
Speaker
So in my last year's grade seven class, I had three or four kids with ADHD.
00:15:38
Speaker
I had a child with dyslexia.
00:15:40
Speaker
I had some kids who had some social emotional problems in terms of them feeling comfortable and confident to be in this environment.
00:15:48
Speaker
I had kids with different linguistic backgrounds.
00:15:51
Speaker
And so I think the question I have to ask myself as a teacher is, okay, this issue is significantly interesting and compelling for my learners, right?
00:16:01
Speaker
How can I make sure that there are sufficient access points given where students are at so that everyone can be successful?
00:16:08
Speaker
And that might be through...
00:16:10
Speaker
scaffolding, the note-taking process.
00:16:13
Speaker
I do a lot of guided note-taking.
00:16:15
Speaker
So for example, through tools like Edpuzzle, where they'll watch something, they'll have to answer it, then they'll have a small group discussion or whatnot.
00:16:23
Speaker
So universal design for learning is also one of those key ways.
00:16:26
Speaker
And then I think the other, the third thing I'm thinking about as you're speaking is
00:16:31
Speaker
making sure that there are mapping documents to see what prior learning has come that teachers should be able to draw upon in the design of a project or an issues-based unit.
00:16:43
Speaker
So if most students have had these experiences in grade nine, then in grade 10, you should be able to not have to reteach everything.
00:16:52
Speaker
maybe review and then be able to use that piece of knowledge or the skill set in that unit in an authentic way where it actually supports kind of consolidation and application.
00:17:04
Speaker
Right.
00:17:05
Speaker
I think that reteaching and reviewing component, not necessarily like diving all back into it, is a part that's often lost that I think should be focused on a little bit more, especially considering if you teach it out
00:17:15
Speaker
public school where kids shift in and out all the time.
00:17:18
Speaker
And then like 10% of your class has no idea what you're talking about because school to school is so much different from one another.
00:17:25
Speaker
And I can speak from personal experience.
00:17:27
Speaker
The thing that changed it is the systems-based approach of just switching it to be a cohort or to a project period.
00:17:32
Speaker
We have both of those.
00:17:33
Speaker
It was revolutionary and us being able to do projects together.
00:17:36
Speaker
It got rid of all the headache and we can do so much cooler stuff together as well as accessorize the project, which I like a lot.
00:17:43
Speaker
So we do four block periods with a project period.
00:17:46
Speaker
So after the project period in our individual classes, we can play off of that and do our own honed in thing.
00:17:53
Speaker
That doesn't necessarily have to be something super grandiose, but a cool study into something which has been very enjoyable.
00:17:58
Speaker
Something I did want to talk about, though, you keep talking about student interest.
00:18:02
Speaker
And you talk in the book about Frere's conscientization.
00:18:06
Speaker
God, I knew I was going to mess up saying it.
00:18:08
Speaker
Conscientization.
00:18:10
Speaker
And at many points, you reference drawing and building upon students' interests and experiences, talking about critical awareness, taking action on different things.
00:18:19
Speaker
But the question I have comes when the projects are balancing between student interest and
00:18:25
Speaker
versus when a teacher introduces a concept that might spur interest.
00:18:30
Speaker
And there's a dissonance there, I think, because there is one frame of sometimes progressive education that advocates for self-directed, interest-driven learning.
00:18:40
Speaker
And then there's another frame that's like, well, what if the students don't want to be interested in something?
00:18:46
Speaker
Or
00:18:47
Speaker
Maybe a better way of phrasing that is they wouldn't normally be introduced to these topics and they might be controversial.
00:18:53
Speaker
For example, Black Lives Matter or climate change, things that used to be a given that now are not.
00:19:00
Speaker
So that's a great question.
00:19:02
Speaker
And Carla and I interviewed probably dozens of educators throughout the writing of this book to see how they approach that.
00:19:09
Speaker
And they all had different ways of integrating student interests into the curriculum.
00:19:14
Speaker
But the common thread is
00:19:16
Speaker
is that they create that classroom culture of connection and belonging first and foremost, where they have open discourse and deep listening to students' interests or passions, concerns, and help them make sense of themselves.
00:19:31
Speaker
who they are, and then how they relate to others in the world.
00:19:35
Speaker
So I'll share an example from one of your board members, Julia Fliss, whom you know.
00:19:41
Speaker
We interviewed her for our book, and she's a middle grades language arts teacher, and she has presented in several of my classes sharing how she approaches this student-driven learning.
00:19:52
Speaker
So she believes it's essential to start the year with a collective experience, a shared guided reading, for example, of a book like A Long Walk to Water, and
00:20:01
Speaker
or documentary film like Girl Rising to provide sort of a frame for using stories as lenses for understanding the world.
00:20:11
Speaker
in which she introduces the SDGs and concepts like gender equality, clean water and sanitation, quality education, and so forth.
00:20:20
Speaker
So that shared experience allows students to consider how do they impact that issue?
00:20:26
Speaker
How does it relate to them?
00:20:28
Speaker
How can they make a difference, which she calls making a dent in the universe.
00:20:33
Speaker
So following this shared experience, she then allows that time and space that you just referenced
00:20:39
Speaker
that she calls a personalized action campaign time, where students can identify what they care about as related to the SDGs and how they want to make a difference.
00:20:50
Speaker
And what makes Julia's approach, I think, really unique is that she's very transparent about the standards that she's expected to follow.
00:20:58
Speaker
And she has them work alongside her deconstructing the standards, identifying how the standards relate to them, what they mean to them.
00:21:07
Speaker
And I think that transparency is really key as a teacher.
00:21:11
Speaker
So being transparent about
00:21:12
Speaker
what you're doing and why you're doing it.
00:21:15
Speaker
But whether it's guided or self-directed, all her experiences align with the standards she's expected to address.
00:21:22
Speaker
And she also empowers students to take action and use the language arts as their voice to make a difference.
00:21:28
Speaker
And it seems like too, when you introduce students slowly and are transparent about the process, you aren't going to necessarily be the one that introduces the controversial topic, if that makes sense.
00:21:40
Speaker
I found that students tend to be the ones that introduce the topics and that makes it way easier to talk about those things.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah, I asked Julia because she does work at a public school.
00:21:49
Speaker
Has she received any kind of pushback from some of the controversial or challenging topics?
00:21:55
Speaker
And she hasn't because the students can explain to their parents and to the administration or whomever why they're learning what they're learning.
00:22:02
Speaker
And it's like you said, it comes from them.
00:22:05
Speaker
It's their questions, their interests, what they want to learn about.
00:22:09
Speaker
But they all ultimately align with the standards that she's expected to follow.
00:22:13
Speaker
Right.
Reciprocal Dialogue and Identity Affirmation
00:22:14
Speaker
And it's all from that place of creating a shared space.
00:22:17
Speaker
It's transparency, it's compassion, it's loving empathy, the same exact things that you would hope the projects spur within students as they learn.
00:22:24
Speaker
And I want to talk about for a second what you just hope classrooms will look like when educators pick up the book and then incorporate these ideas.
00:22:33
Speaker
Like, how would you expect or how do you hope teachers change as a result of reading this, picking it up, seeing what's going on?
00:22:41
Speaker
Yeah, so I think the first and foremost, kind of building on what Elizabeth just shared, we would want to see more reciprocity and dialogue between teachers and students.
00:22:51
Speaker
So one of the premises that underpins children's rights is that children are experts of their own lives.
00:22:59
Speaker
And I think we don't often build from this starting point, this assumption that students are experts about their own lives and can share things from their perspectives that can shape the learning experience more broadly.
00:23:12
Speaker
And that doesn't mean it has to be individualized, where it's each child's individual interests or passions.
00:23:21
Speaker
It's about creating a collective sense of identity in a classroom.
00:23:26
Speaker
But the starting point for that is that dialogue where people are actually sharing what they've experienced.
00:23:31
Speaker
And my experiences in doing some co-planning with my own learners is that they will tell you when they are done having explored a topic.
00:23:38
Speaker
I mean, we were going to do some plastic waste like...
00:23:43
Speaker
inquiries as part of our unit on resource allocation or resource extraction and then allocation.
00:23:49
Speaker
They're like, no, we've done plastic waste a number of times.
00:23:51
Speaker
We don't want to do that.
00:23:52
Speaker
We want to do soil as a global commons.
00:23:54
Speaker
Or one kid said, oh, let's do more sustainable power grids.
00:23:57
Speaker
Like just things I would have never thought of.
00:23:59
Speaker
Ghost fishing.
00:24:00
Speaker
I mean, like...
00:24:01
Speaker
If you actually create space for them, they will bring these ideas, but we don't often do that.
00:24:07
Speaker
So I think that's the first one.
00:24:08
Speaker
And if then their voices are more embedded in the design of our classroom experiences, I think we hope that that means there's more cohesion and connectedness for the learning in general.
00:24:21
Speaker
So their identities are affirmed.
00:24:23
Speaker
They can see some of their concerns and interests addressed through the way that the curriculum is being used.
00:24:32
Speaker
kind of chunked or provided in those experiences, and that the disciplinary knowledge and skills are used for a purpose.
00:24:40
Speaker
So they can actually see, oh, I'm learning about this persuasive text and how to create my own, because I'm going to be writing some letters to local government about these particular issues, which are concerning for me.
00:24:55
Speaker
And of course, you know, we want them to understand issues and the world around them better.
00:25:01
Speaker
We don't want it to be tokenistic or shallow.
00:25:03
Speaker
They need to have a deep understanding of what's actually happening in the world.
00:25:06
Speaker
It needs to be informed.
00:25:07
Speaker
It needs to be evidence based.
00:25:11
Speaker
And it needs to be kind of conceptual as well so that if they see an instance of discrimination, they
00:25:17
Speaker
you know, with one case study, they can actually recognize it in new case studies now and in the future as well.
00:25:25
Speaker
And hopefully that will help build the agency that's required for students to see themselves as, you know, able to enact change in what is becoming a very complex, interconnected, ambiguous, kind of volatile world.
00:25:39
Speaker
To build from that, I think
00:25:41
Speaker
That notion that schooling happens with students and not to them is really important.
00:25:46
Speaker
And their teachers are also learners and co-learners with them in the classroom.
00:25:51
Speaker
And we saw that in the teachers that we interviewed in the book.
00:25:54
Speaker
But I wanted to emphasize the cultivation of passion and purpose and why that's so essential.
00:26:00
Speaker
And, and I start my courses with that idea of, you know, what do you, what's the purpose of schooling?
00:26:06
Speaker
And then followed by, you know, what are your passions and how do you connect to the curriculum and,
00:26:12
Speaker
And something that stood out to me a year ago, one of my mid-40s adult learners said to me, no one has ever asked me what my passions are or what my interests are.
00:26:24
Speaker
We do a lot of reflecting on what our own schooling experiences were like, positive and negative.
00:26:30
Speaker
How do you want your future classroom to look?
00:26:33
Speaker
And it's so hard to break those habits of teaching that we teach how we were taught.
00:26:39
Speaker
And so I'm trying to
00:26:40
Speaker
to sort of break that trend to help students identify their own values and interests and passions and how they relate in the world so they can do that with their own students.
00:26:52
Speaker
Because we have experienced K-12 schooling in certain ways that shape how we then become teachers and go into classrooms.
00:26:59
Speaker
I think that this process that you're describing, that idea of co-developing the project or the unit and talking about these things together, at least helps me tease apart some of the authoritarian issues I have with
Trust and Teacher Autonomy
00:27:13
Speaker
teaching.
00:27:13
Speaker
As a teacher who also is deeply, deeply, deeply interested in progressive pedagogy, it feels really awkward to go into the room and command all authority.
00:27:22
Speaker
But it's also very difficult to find ways to give that up in a way that's not...
00:27:27
Speaker
weird both for the teacher and for the kids i think being able to have some kind of structure in that co-planning process allows us to give up some of our power and allow students to be involved with that and i think about when you're talking about students seeing interest in what it is that they're doing i think it's actually john warder shout out to another board member uh who talks about the idea that writers when they get to college he asked them what do you enjoy writing how do you see yourself as a writer
00:27:55
Speaker
And no one can answer the question, even if they're English majors.
00:27:58
Speaker
And it's because we spent so long just telling kids exactly what to do or exactly what to do and how to do it.
00:28:05
Speaker
It's all become so standardized in a non-autonomous sense that, you know, this is where we're at.
00:28:12
Speaker
So something like this offers an anecdote to that.
00:28:14
Speaker
And
00:28:15
Speaker
Then I'm curious to know, okay, so they go through this process.
00:28:19
Speaker
What's the, what's like the big picture of worldwide learning?
00:28:23
Speaker
What do you hope that the spurs in the long term as more classroom shift to a model with this type of environment?
00:28:30
Speaker
Yes, I think for me, I'll speak on my own behalf here, there's a real systems change that occurs with more students and teachers exploring what's possible.
00:28:42
Speaker
I think at the moment, schooling is in a rut.
00:28:45
Speaker
We're trying to use the same system for a different purpose, for a different world that's around us.
00:28:52
Speaker
We know the world is volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous.
00:28:55
Speaker
We've seen that firsthand with the COVID pandemic.
00:29:01
Speaker
We've seen how globalization is creating more interdependence and connectedness across the world.
00:29:07
Speaker
And we've seen how we need to create solutions in an interdisciplinary way to actually address some of these things.
00:29:14
Speaker
It's not good enough for our students to walk out the door when they're 5 or 13 or 18 and be passive.
00:29:21
Speaker
we need more active citizens actually saying, you know, we need to, we need to address these things.
00:29:26
Speaker
They're not going to go away by themselves.
00:29:29
Speaker
So I think we're, you know, we're reaching a precipice here in terms of what are the extent to which our schooling systems are sustainable given our current conditions.
00:29:38
Speaker
And I think for, for myself, I think Elizabeth would agree, but I don't want to speak for her.
00:29:44
Speaker
I think we want to see large scale systems change and schools becoming different spaces in
00:29:50
Speaker
which value, recognize their learners.
00:29:54
Speaker
So in identity affirming, culturally sustaining ways that support, you know, students of all ethnicities, races, sexualities, etc.
00:30:04
Speaker
But then also empower those students to become agents of change in their community that make a difference.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's very well stated.
00:30:13
Speaker
And I guess I'll wrap it up with this question, which is, you know, talking about systems of change and I want to support teachers as an administrator.
00:30:22
Speaker
What systems could I implement to the typically overwork underpaid teacher who wants to pick up a 300 plus page book with a bunch of cool charts and diagrams that I need to analyze and integrate?
00:30:35
Speaker
How can I help them do that in a meaningful way?
00:30:39
Speaker
First and foremost, we need to trust teachers, trust teachers as professionals who can design meaningful, rigorous curriculum that meets their students' needs.
00:30:50
Speaker
I do a lot of work in Finland, and one of their cultural values is trust, and teachers have high workplace satisfaction.
00:30:58
Speaker
They're respected in society, and I think so getting back to our values.
00:31:03
Speaker
I'll speak from the U.S. context.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's really important that administrators, parents,
00:31:08
Speaker
and colleagues support teachers and trust teachers.
00:31:10
Speaker
So just that value of trust.
00:31:13
Speaker
Second, I think more and more teachers have lost dedicated planning time.
00:31:19
Speaker
And a lot of my students will say, this is really hard work, you know, designing units like this.
00:31:25
Speaker
It's time consuming and challenging.
00:31:28
Speaker
And teachers have more and more responsibilities given to them where they've completely lost their planning time in some cases.
00:31:34
Speaker
So I think administrators in particular need to remove a lot of those barriers and responsibilities that aren't really worth their time and give teachers time to plan.
00:31:46
Speaker
And then third, I think it's essential that teachers have support.
00:31:51
Speaker
either within their school or beyond.
00:31:54
Speaker
That's probably one of the reasons I left the classroom, is I felt isolated and I didn't have a community.
00:32:00
Speaker
It was before Twitter and all these networks where you can find like-minded people online.
00:32:04
Speaker
But teachers need a community.
00:32:06
Speaker
And so that's actually something Carla and I hope to do, is create this community of educators who can
00:32:12
Speaker
test ideas, share what worked, what challenges they faced, and come together via our companion website to share different practices in their different contexts.
00:32:24
Speaker
So I will add something, but I know that it's very easy to say this when I'm not in the US context and experiencing what teachers on the ground are.
00:32:35
Speaker
I think teachers need to be incentivized instead of punished for making the curriculum relate to students' lived experiences.
00:32:43
Speaker
I know there's a number of laws that have happened in places like North Carolina and Arizona, et cetera, that are asking parents or students to basically call in when a teacher has brought up a contentious issue.
00:33:01
Speaker
And I think this really works against
00:33:04
Speaker
The purpose of schooling, which is to create a laboratory, a safe space where students can actually engage with these issues in a meaningful way with their peers.
00:33:14
Speaker
who are going to be from diverse experiences and backgrounds instead of just kind of the echo chamber of the family.
00:33:21
Speaker
And of course, the family will have values and beliefs and they need to feel like those values and beliefs are being affirmed by the school community and not discredited.
00:33:34
Speaker
At the same time, we need to learn how to
00:33:37
Speaker
deal with people who may not be the same as us, because that is just the way the world works, right?
00:33:43
Speaker
So I think recognizing that teaching is a political act, it is.
00:33:48
Speaker
That doesn't mean that you're talking about partisan politics.
00:33:50
Speaker
It doesn't mean you're talking about political viewpoints of particular...
00:33:54
Speaker
politicians, doesn't mean you're talking about what bill is on the Senate floor or whatever.
00:34:00
Speaker
But it's about recognizing that whatever choices we make in the classroom, we are tacitly communicating what we believe students role is in society.
00:34:10
Speaker
So if we tell them, be quiet, sit down, it's not your time to talk, we're teaching compliance, we're
00:34:17
Speaker
We're teaching through that kind of disciplinary authoritarian lens versus let's sit in a circle.
00:34:24
Speaker
Let's actually have a discussion about something that's tricky.
00:34:27
Speaker
How are we going to get through this?
00:34:28
Speaker
Are we feeling uncomfortable?
00:34:30
Speaker
And creating a space where we say, yes, we will experience comfort as part of exploring issues in the world, but that doesn't mean you have to do it alone.
00:34:39
Speaker
And we're going to make sure that we have protocols and structures in place to make sure everyone feels respected and safe.
00:34:45
Speaker
I hope that those issues, which are actually at a much higher level than at a school district level, will be addressed over time.
00:34:58
Speaker
But in the meantime, administrators can just keep supporting their teachers in the classroom and saying, this is what we should be doing.
00:35:05
Speaker
We should make sure that the learning works for our learners.
00:35:09
Speaker
What do you do in a circumstance where administration doesn't support
Navigating Restrictive Policies in Education
00:35:14
Speaker
you?
00:35:14
Speaker
So an instance where you don't have any planning time, where what is deemed as a political issue is not supported in the classroom, where parents are calling in, especially for rural educators that are trying to make a difference, it's really tricky.
00:35:28
Speaker
Is there a way that you can use some form of like creative non-compliance to get away with some of the things that you're talking about?
00:35:36
Speaker
Or does it even have to go that route?
00:35:37
Speaker
Is there another way that you can enact change?
00:35:39
Speaker
The thing I'm thinking about is the way that you can do this work surreptitiously through integrating the community.
00:35:47
Speaker
Because what administrator will say, no, you can't talk to people in the community.
00:35:51
Speaker
I remember when I was working in Germany and we interviewed our janitor.
00:35:54
Speaker
And, you know, he was talking about paint getting clogged in the pipes and whatnot.
00:35:58
Speaker
And so the question is there, you know, those are first grade students.
00:36:01
Speaker
What are they learning about whose work is valued and important in society by who we're bringing into the community, who we're bringing into the classroom, rather?
00:36:09
Speaker
And so we can be doing some of this work.
00:36:13
Speaker
I think, through local engagement in meaningful ways, because it will come up anyways as you're engaging with someone who's down the road or around the corner from the school.
00:36:24
Speaker
And so as long as we keep getting kids out of the school environment and engaging meaningfully with the whole community, I think that might provide a way for teachers to have a bit of a workaround.
00:36:36
Speaker
That's a fantastic point.
00:36:38
Speaker
It's also a way to get around.
00:36:40
Speaker
We've been doing a lot of research into the concept of divisive concepts because it's been a huge thing here in the States where they're banning the use of teachers using divisive concepts.
00:36:49
Speaker
What was interesting is that the bill explicitly states that if a student brings up a divisive concept, you can talk about it.
00:36:56
Speaker
So by using open-ended PBL structures where you're just posing questions about, let's say, inequity and someone brings up a quote-unquote divisive concept, you can talk about as much as you want, which is kind of what you're saying you should do anyway, because that allows it to be a safe space for the student to talk about it.
00:37:11
Speaker
So it's a win-win, even though it's kind of an absurd policy to begin with.
Podcast Conclusion and Call to Action
00:37:20
Speaker
Thank you again for listening to Human Restoration Projects Podcast.
00:37:23
Speaker
I hope this conversation leaves you inspired and ready to push the progressive envelope of education.
00:37:28
Speaker
You can learn more about progressive education, support our cause, and stay tuned to this podcast and other updates on our website at humanrestorationproject.org.
00:37:35
Speaker
Thank you.