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Seattle Sounders sign Hassani Dotson and Paul Rothrock RE-SIGNS?!
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We have the first major moves of Seattle Sounders offseason with Tuesday's announcement that free-agents Hassani Dotson and Ryan Sailor have signed with the Rave Green. We'll discuss the implications of Seattle's latest additions and what their roles could look like come 2026.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
Contact: lobbingscorchers@justoncemedia.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Lobbing Scorchers Live
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Lobbing Scorchers was previously recorded and streamed live on YouTube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers. If you want to listen or catch these episodes live, see the video, and see all the rest of our content, go to YouTube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers or LobbingScorchers.com slash YouTube.
00:00:22
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Why the scorcher today? Well it's gonna be scorcher.
Biggest Off-Season Episode Overview
00:00:44
Speaker
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to another off-season edition of Lobbing Scorchers. Folks, I think it's fair to say that this is our biggest off-season episode yet. We have so much to get
News and Roster Updates
00:00:58
Speaker
to tonight. I'm sure you all have seen some of the news today. That's been out there, but we're going to be talking about it and reacting to it. We got Noah tapped in already. We're going to have Nico tapping in in just a few minutes. We're going be talking some Hassani Dotson. We're going to be talking some Paul Rothrock. Nico's got the update on that, and it was an update.
00:01:17
Speaker
of the positive variety. can tell you all that. We're going to be talking later on about the report in the athletic today about divisions, Seattle's division when the MLS switches to the new calendar has been decided. then I think we're going to talk a little Wilford Nancy maybe even later. So a lot to get to and a ton of good Sounders news to talk about. I mean, a new player, a Paul Rothrock development. It looks like he's coming back. Noah, what's up, man? Thanks for tapping in. How are you feeling about all this? The off season really, it picked up and took off in the last couple of days here. And here we are. What do you think?
00:01:50
Speaker
Well, it's always great to see you, especially around the holiday time. You're literally a real, we're both real grinders. I want everyone to appreciate. We put out like nine Instagram posts today. So I was cooking on those. Ari was over here. dish Ari was dishing scoops, by the way. i just I just want you to know, Ari is literally dishing scoops or cooking up graphics. We're waiting for announcements. We're doing things. We're linking. We're building.
00:02:13
Speaker
This might've been the busiest off season day we've seen in a long time, in
Hassani Dotson's Impact Discussion
00:02:18
Speaker
a long time. Things just kept coming. Things just kept come Yeah, no, it, it really, it was kind of dragging there for a minute. There wasn't a lot going on. People were like, Craig wives, what are you doing? Now we got ah a new player, a big time new player,
00:02:31
Speaker
though it's not like a necessarily a role player Hassani Dodson as we're going to talk about that's a guy that's going to play a lot and be a big part of this team next year so that's exciting to talk about and really I know I know everyone wants to talk about Paul Rothrock we're going to get to that Nico's the one who had the report and he should be on here in about 10 or 15 minutes or so So he will give us the actual ins and outs of that. But yeah, it does. It feels good to have roster moves starting to happen. Feels good to ah have a new player on the squad of federal way to five, three shoutout shout out, shout out, Kellen row, shout out Lamar Nagel.
00:03:08
Speaker
Hassani Dotson joins the ranks of two, five, three years to join the Seattle Sounders. So that's a lot of fun. And I think, uh, For me, don't don't just the vibes of the offseason, didn't they get just like a boost over the last couple days? It feels a lot more like there's stuff to be excited about again. And I guess I'll start with that, just my my reaction to the Rothrock stuff, which we'll have Nico fill in the details, but it does sound like a breakthrough is the term that he
Rothrock's Significance and Contract
00:03:38
Speaker
used. And my first reaction to that, Noah, was just, thank God, dude. Thank God. like The vibes... the vibes would have been so bad if he had walked. And I had gotten to a place in my mind where I was like, you know, it looks like he is going to walk.
00:03:53
Speaker
And if he does walk, I, you know, I feel like the roster can still get to a place where we can feel good about the team competing and contending in 2026. It's, it's not like,
00:04:05
Speaker
Rothrock walking would have chalked the season next year. But just from a vibes perspective, it's a it's a big relief and they're going to need him. You know, Pedro de la Vega is not going to be healthy for the start of the season. And, ah you know, Ryan Kent's gone this offseason and you still, you know, Georgie is a guy that everyone wants to take a step forward, but you don't really know about that yet. So just having him back, it feels good. It feels right. And really for me, it's the biggest emotion I feel about it is just relief. What about you? Is that kind of where you're at with it?
00:04:37
Speaker
I mean, Ari, I don't think it's a shock to anybody that my favorite player on this roster is Paul Rothrock. And so to get my personal goat back, oh my God, it was incredible. The engagement, incredible.
00:04:50
Speaker
I just like, I think... it it It was a good omen. It was a needed omen, not only for this offseason, but for next season. You know, we talked about a lot last show how this wasn't the end of the world. This was not going to be the end of the world if you transfer out Paul Rothrock. But it sure would be nice. It sure would be nice. It would sure be nice to have the kid back in Seattle.
00:05:15
Speaker
And I don't know. I just think it's funny because San Jose Earthquakes... Like, you got to feel bad if you're the San Jose Earthquakes right now. You do. You've got to feel bad because you almost had a game-changing player on your roster, a perfect Bruce Arena guy. Honestly, like, I thought that was done and dusted. We both did because it was like, yeah, that that makes sense. That's a fit.
00:05:36
Speaker
And yet here we are. The Sounders always win. The Sounders always win Ari. We cannot be stopped. And frankly, with Rothrock back on this roster, what is stopping us from winning Champions League? What is stopping us from winning Champions League Ari? It's certainly going to help. He is the perfect type of player.
00:05:54
Speaker
for a tournament like that. And I'm just excited we get to watch him in that tournament as part of the Seattle Sounders. And I'm just, I'm really pleased that we don't have to deal with the emotional blow of having Paul Rothrock walk in free agency. And we just had the perfect person to talk about exactly this tap in. We're going to bring him to the stage right now. It's our guy.
00:06:16
Speaker
Nico Moreno. It looks like he's getting his tech situated over there, but, uh, Nico, what's up, man. Thanks for, uh, tapping in. We got a lot to talk to you about. Uh, how are you feeling after ah a big day of news breaking?
00:06:28
Speaker
ah tired, man. I, uh, selfishly, uh, added extra five minutes, uh, to get this cup of coffee going. Cause, uh, I am a little bit, uh, there we go. Uh, I am a little tired. It's been, uh,
00:06:42
Speaker
A week of a lot of calls, a lot of um groundwork, you know, starts with leads and things like that. I lost out on the Carlos Coronel to Orlando City by like 10 So, man, it's been ah A very moving situation over the last week.
00:07:04
Speaker
ah Same thing with the Stephen Fry. if I had not gone for that extra piece of confirmation, probably would have been a good thing. I got to hit the trigger a little bit quicker. But now we get a good one here with Paul Rothrock.
00:07:19
Speaker
ah You literally, I'm not kidding you. In our Instagram comments, when I made that post, first of all, i so I have your notifications on. If people don't have your notifications on during the off season on X or on any other app, like what are you doing? Nico is literally dropping nuggets every single day. It's like, if you don't have them on, I don't know what you're doing. I get the little notification.
00:07:41
Speaker
on my phone and i went holy shit and i sprinted over to my laptop and i made that graphic and i posted it i have never seen so many happy sounders fans in our comments like brigaders were flapping it was like widespread joy widespread joy in adulation it was everyone was like this is a christmas miracle thank you nico how does it feel to be santa claus that's what i'm asking ah ah You know what? it It is gratifying when so many people are excited. There is a lot of responsibility when it comes to putting something out like that. I was sitting on that for almost 36 hours, you know, just making sure that...
00:08:26
Speaker
It had all the right filters that you know it was as far as I think it was. You saw me put out the stuff for San Jose because that's part of the process. It's been ah a lot of ebbs and flows to the free agency, to you know Paul Rothrock. He's a guy that a lot of teams wanted on their roster, and rightfully so. um Now with the the Sounders making...
00:08:54
Speaker
had a Ahead of everybody everybody else and and closing down on on what is almost eminently going to be ah an agreement for Port Rothrock to stay here multiple years. I'm excited and I love to see and hear people just be rejoiced by it. I mean...
00:09:13
Speaker
i I had somebody to tell be that his wife was thrilled at somebody else saying that his kids were just so excited. Uh, so, you know, i appreciate all the comments and, and, and I hope that it it does get finalized and, uh,
00:09:29
Speaker
The signatures go where they go. i know Paul Rothrock is taking a European vacation. So he is, you know, doing his thing, enjoying his time off. Obviously, the negotiations are being done with his representation. So, man, I just hope that he gets finalized. And um we have Paul Rothrock for many years more.
00:09:52
Speaker
Question with just clarifying for all of those people who are wondering about your wording. To be clear, the contract's not done, but it should be
Negotiation Dynamics
00:10:01
Speaker
there. It's like if we were going to give it a percentage or a vibe check, how are we feeling?
00:10:06
Speaker
Yeah, 95%, you know, done. i always keep that 5% to 10% just in case of anything. If I don't hear that it's through the line, I don't say it's through the line. And sometimes it's through the line. But if I don't get that green light, I'm not going to say it just because I can, right? Again, it goes back to the responsibility. That's why I try to do my due diligence on on things. But for what it's worth, I am very confident that this is just...
00:10:38
Speaker
lacking the last final touches, ah but that it's all pretty much agreed upon on on all all accounts. um When I see certain green lights from certain sources, I go with things and that's where this is at. So um I don't expect that to to change. And Paul Rothrock should be here for ah several years more. I've been asked a lot of questions about you know the the money component,
00:11:04
Speaker
As far as I know, and again, this is me giving you guys ah an estimated guess based on background and and and what I hear. I don't think that there was a huge change from the Sounders salary standpoint to what they had ah initially offered him. So my guess is that it's in between the 650 range ah to 700. There's obviously going to be performance escalators that are going to allow him to perform himself himself into higher compensation. ah But ah at the end of the day, it's probably a situation where Paul did his thing. He was out there. He...
00:11:43
Speaker
Took a lot of calls. He sat down and and had some long discussions with several teams. One of those being San Jose Earthquakes. And at the end of the day, when you probably put things in the pros and cons area,
00:12:00
Speaker
whatever the Sounders were offering them at the very end was probably enough to say, look, the Sounders is where I've been successful. I love the fan base. It's my city. And the club is clearly going to be playing for bigger trophies, right? This is a team that's going to be playing CONCACAF Cup. They're going to be playing League's Cup. They're a team that is a protagonist in this league. And as much as San Jose has improved, and they've been fun with Bruce Arena, which that sounds kind of Odd, saying Bruce and fun in the same sentence. But but they've been good. um i definitely think that there is a level
00:12:39
Speaker
of more spotlights when it comes to you playing for the Sounders than it does for San Jose. What do we know? Like how, what, if there are, if it is, if you, wow, I can't talk tonight. If you are able to share what other teams were interested in Paul, cause like from, from what I, so from what it sounded like to me is that every MLS GM was interested. He was a very hot free agent.
00:13:05
Speaker
He was a very hot free agent and he should be now that the, how do I phrase this correctly? A lot of the things that made him a very desirable free agent, it wasn't just his performances, ah his demeanor, ah his productivity, his grittiness, the fact that he's a two-way player, all of the soccer components that come with Paul Rothrock, but there was also a
00:13:41
Speaker
um ah speculation that he would be a a cheaper player ah because you look at his salary, right, of what he was making initially. So I think a lot of interest was based on on, hey, you know, maybe I can get him on this number or that number. And I think Paul did a great job at saying, look, this is what I want and this is what it takes for me to go to your team and that probably eliminated some teams. ah But the ones that were there till the end or that showed the most serious interest in Paul were San Jose, the LA Galaxy. That would have been fire. Joey Paints and Paul Rothrock together. Man, if they have pulled that off.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yes, Nashville. um And I had heard Dallas. they They fell off a little sooner than others. But Dallas was also ah making several inquiries there at the end. But all in all, it would have to been a lot for you to go elsewhere if if you're Paul Rothrock, I think.
00:14:49
Speaker
Now, I've said this from the very beginning. I ah completely understand and I respect the fact that he is taking advantage of his situation, um picking up what he's cultivated, which is a lot of hurt, a lot of pain, a lot of sacrifice to get yourself in a position to be a, not just a contributor for the Sounders, but but an X factor at times and become in many ways not the face of the franchise, but pretty close to it, right? I mean, when you're being compared to Messi, when you're the guy that's providing ah this ah extra gear for the team, when you're like a guy performing right off the bench, when then you get the opportunity as a starter and you continue to bring that greediness and and that ability to change the game, to affect the game, to be influential, right?
00:15:47
Speaker
all that stuff is based on on on effort and on product. So he was willing to, you know, collect and say look, this is exactly what what I want to do. This is what I want to get. and eventually, as I had mentioned from the very beginning, the best scenario in this whole plot was going to be the Sounders and him, Paul Rothrock, coming to an agreeance because they can both get be better together than apart from each other.
00:16:13
Speaker
We knew about Nashville. we ah We knew about Nashville and we knew about San Jose, obviously. The Galaxy, that's ah that's a new one and that's one that makes a lot of sense. That really would have helped them. And God, how whack would it have been if Paul Rothrock was playing for the LA Galaxy?
00:16:30
Speaker
That is just, that's honestly kind of nightmarish. Nico, it's ah it's interesting to think about the trajectory of this negotiation because as recently as when you were reporting that ah he was in advanced talks with the San Jose earthquakes, it really seemed like, I mean, i don't know if bridge burning is probably too strong of a way to put it, but it just...
00:16:49
Speaker
It felt like the vibe was that there was some kind of, there was a contentious nature to the negotiations. There was maybe a little bit of a sense that like Paul Rothrock felt like the club wasn't valuing him as he feels that he should have, that he should be valued based on, like you mentioned, all the sacrifices he's made for this team and you know, how he did what he did last year on a hundred K. Uh,
00:17:10
Speaker
Do you think, does this kind of suggest to you that it maybe was more of a cordial ah negotiation than it seemed like? Or do you think there is any sort of ah kind of lingering tension there with the ah with the dynamic? Because I'm hoping that, you know, cooler heads prevailed and they're just happy to get it done. But what's what's your kind of sense of how that went down?
00:17:30
Speaker
No, it it was definitely contagious. It was definitely contagious. Intense negotiations and that's the way you expect it to be. i mean if you're agent is not willing to go out there and be the bad guy for you, then you got to get a new one. I mean, that's just the way it is, right? You're not going to go into a situation where you're going to be like, okay, ah how much are you willing to pay my guy? No, you set a price, you set it high, and then you start from there.
00:18:00
Speaker
Clearly, there was a lot of leverage, a lot of interest in in Paul, and they use that to their benefit, of course. And you sit at the poker table, you know, with your you know five cards and you're trying to figure out what the other one has. And they did a good job of holding up till the end because there was a lot of teams that were willing to bring in Paul Rothrock. But then at the end, it it I don't know if cooler heads prevail or you just understand that that's the nature of negotiating, right? There's going to be a back and forth. There's going to be
00:18:34
Speaker
the other side saying, like, you need my guy. is what it is. I'm going to hang up. I'm going to walk away from the dealership. I'm not buying this car. ah And then you're like, no, man, come on, come back. I mean, it's just part of it, right? It doesn't matter what sort of negotiation you're making. I think that there is a level of intensity that rises. um I don't think there's any bad blood in between player and club. i I'm pretty sure that ah Craig Weibel and the organization have been through many of these negotiations. And for everything that Craig Weibel does, he's someone that doesn't sugarcoat things. So I'm pretty sure if I know him well enough, he said, look, this is what it is This is what we're going to provide you with. This is how much we can give you.
00:19:20
Speaker
go test the market, come back. And then I'm sure his agent did his agent stuff and we're like, oh, I don't understand. It's too low. but But at the end of the day, it was all going to come back to what's the best situation for, for Rothrock. He's, it was his decision. The club, as I had mentioned, even when I posted about the advanced talks with San Jose, the door was always open.
00:19:47
Speaker
It's just that they were not willing to give him exactly what he was asking for, but the the willingness and the desire to have Paul Rothrock was always there from the Sounders, but they allowed the player to make that decision. So ultimately was Paul who got to test the market, figure out situations, you know, do some additions and subtractions, some division, some multiplication. And then all of a sudden ah it turns out with hims coming back to the Sounders. I don't think that it will be a problem with the club.
00:20:18
Speaker
With the players, ah you know, might be some chatter on the back end. And that's all good and well that happens with everybody, you know. And then when the numbers come out with the MLS, ah you know, ah PA putting those out there, there'll probably more conversation about it. But at the end of the day, it's just normal. It's nothing that I think is going to diminish any of the camaraderie that he's been able to build with the team.
00:20:46
Speaker
And just to clarify, i know you said you don't know the exact terms and numbers we're talking about here, but your understanding of it is that the number that they landed on was roughly in the ballpark or similar to what the team had been offering to him from the beginning, which was somewhere around, as we understand it, 600 650K. Your understanding is that the number is around there and not up towards eight Which I believe was reportedly what his camp was asking for at one point No, it's definitely below the 700s.
Sounders' Player Development Strategy
00:21:20
Speaker
I would say I had to throw a ah number after probably around the 650 areas with some escalating classes based on performances that might allow him to get, you know above that ah So yeah, that's kind of the way I expect
00:21:36
Speaker
this contract to be built around. Same thing as the years. I heard multi-year contract that can mean all kinds of, all kinds of things. You know, it could be three in one, it could be two in one, um but it is multiple years.
00:21:50
Speaker
Paul, roth yeah we did a, Yeah, we did a we showed a little graph on our last stream and on Sounder Heart. This is a great time to plug. You can go subscribe at sounderheart.com. Support all of our work. There's a member exclusive article done by one of our listeners um and someone who we showed the graph. But like he calculated what Paul Rothrock might be worth on the open market using a bunch of statistical data. And he landed on $515,000.
00:22:21
Speaker
ah So Paul has to feel a little bit happy because I think the truth is is like he is getting a good deal with what the Sounders offered him, if it is around what is reported. um I think he's earned it, though.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, that that extra money that extra money to me of what could be considered an overpay, that's like the... That's the reward he gets, in my opinion. That's how I'm thinking of it. That's the reward he gets for playing on 104K last year. And it also, it accounts for the value that he brings specifically to Seattle, which we've talked about this. He has more value to Seattle specifically than he would for, i think, any other MLS club when you factor in the hometown hero storyline. So, yeah.
00:23:07
Speaker
i'm I'm good with ah the number they're giving him being slightly over what his market value might be might be billed as because because of those factors. Yeah, and he's Paul Rothrock. He cannot be seen by the plain stats. You cannot look at Paul Rothrock's work ethic, work ratio, work engine, ah the the the way he plays mind games with teams, the way he's disrespectful to rivals in the most amazing way in order to get them off their game to, you know, protect his teammates. ah that There is a lot of,
00:23:47
Speaker
things that Paul Rothrock does that cannot be calculated in a piece of paper that I think the Sounders realize. I think that there's a lot of teams that that know this as well, is just how much are you willing to necessarily you know pay? And I think that if Paul Rothrock gets in here and proves himself another couple of years, you know he could set himself up for another payday or you know maybe moving somewhere else. I mean,
00:24:11
Speaker
that there could be a team in MLS interested to pay a transfer fee I wouldn't put it past them. I just, I think that there's a lot more to Paul Rothrock that, you know, right now by staying with the Sounders, giving himself yet another opportunity to play in these big games and continue to show that he's probably prime time because he's playing prime time games and he's not playing your, you know, one o'clock game nobody's watching, right? You know, he's not, not not a knock on San Jose, but even if you,
00:24:41
Speaker
looking to all of the reporting that has been done by but the athletic on how the regions are going to work. San Jose is being treated like the stepchild. You know what i mean? So, you know, you got to take in consideration, you know, where you are does provide you a different set of eyes on you and a different set of competition.
00:24:59
Speaker
That is true. It is like so much more valuable, especially when, you know, and you've talked about this specifically with Obed Varkas, which is someone I do want to ask you about, but how how securing that playing time, knowing where you're going to play, knowing your teammates, knowing that there's a role for you.
00:25:16
Speaker
is a huge value if you do have ambition and goals to move forward in your career, whether it's national team or international, ah you know, transfers or whatever it is like being able to secure your spot, ah especially if you're going getting paid similarly, or even you maybe you make a little bit more at San Jose, but you got to work your way into where you're going to be playing there and new people. It's it's almost worth it to maybe take a little bit less and know exactly where you're going to stand.
00:25:48
Speaker
Unless you guys have anything else on Paul Rothrock, I was thinking we could talk some Hassani Dotson and then Obed Vargas, though, real quick. ah Before that, does that sound good? Or anyone else want to cook on Rothrock? Yeah, no, it sounds good. All right. Before we... i wanted to know if there was any comments or anything from from chat, let me know. yeah So, well, let's hit this. We got a super chat in here. Oh, well, we got a Avenging Syndrome member for seven months. Thank you for the support. People who took a pay cut to play for the Sounders. Hey, Susan Rothrock, same person.
00:26:18
Speaker
They are a pretty smaller players with similar roles on the, on the team. So it's a good shout. Uh, before we, uh, before we talk Obed updates and Hassani Dotson, everyone, please like the video. Every single person who's watching who hasn't liked the video, just like the video, get us in that algorithm, uh, follow us on Instagram and follow us on Tik TOK. Noah was absolutely cooking on the IG today. And, uh, It's really, if you're not following the IG, it's some good content. So follow us on there. ah All right, before we talk about this Hassani Dotson signing, Nico, we did have a lot of people in chat asking if there's any update on Obed, if he's actually going to end up walking on a free transfer, as has we been talked about in recent weeks.
Obed Vargas Transfer Speculation
00:27:02
Speaker
You got any new information or any sort of updated sense on where things stand as far as if they're going to be able to sign him to an extension ah before the season, or if this is going to be a situation ah that it looks like where he's going to play out his contract and then ah walk on a free. do you have What's going on with that?
00:27:22
Speaker
I would just reiterate what we said with Jeremiah during our last show regarding Alwood Barger's situation. and all it is is basically the situation where I do think there is a high probability that Obed goes in this winter window where you don't extend them. There's nothing to it. You just take the offer that is best suited for him and the club here in January. And even if that means not waiting for
00:28:03
Speaker
his situation to perhaps get better and that increases value to another team in the summer. But you just take what you can get now and players happy because he's sitting europe in Europe in a decent situation.
00:28:20
Speaker
Club is happy because they got three, $4 million dollars for the player. And now those funds that you were going to use to the I got like, uh, Obed Vargas, which, you know, could be million, five million, two. He he was definitely asking for more, than just the top or max U22 contract. And you just go and call it a day. Uh, I think that's better than allowing him to go on a free, which I've said that to me would be catastrophic. Um, but,
00:28:58
Speaker
a good medium or a good push, if you will, like you do the casino. You could just push by getting what you can get out of Obed right now in the winter and getting a guy like Dotson to me tells me, hey, you know, Dotson's a guy that we think could fill in while Snyder Brunel continues to develop and you call it good.
00:29:22
Speaker
I definitely don't think that there is a high probability that there will be an extension with Ovid. I feel like the moves that have already been made in some way make me feel like that's just not in the cards.
00:29:38
Speaker
And therefore the best scenario for the Sounders is that they find a place to ship Ovid during the winter window. And is something Jeremiah talked about. It's something that i completely agree with. Um,
00:29:52
Speaker
If there is a a universe where you don't get anything close to what you want in the winter and you do have to suck it up, for lack of a better word or a better term, and just see what happens with Ovid playing him one more year on a hundred, whatever thousand dollars.
00:30:16
Speaker
you hope that you have the best season ever and you win MLS Cup CONCACAF Cup and you just cash in on everything you can on Ovid Vargas? But even then, it would feel like a bad piece of business it would if he was to walk away on a free. Literally every single, they could win the Shield, they could win MLS Cup, they could win CONCACAF Champions Cup, and they could win Leagues Cup. And if he leaves on a free and they get nothing, I would still be like, that's bad. business I would agree.
00:30:43
Speaker
It is bad business. It is bad business. and like I don't know. I see this comment a lot. And I want to know from both of you how like logical this is that this deal could have been done a long time ago.
00:30:54
Speaker
This deal should have been done a long time ago. This deal should have happened two years ago. like we should have there There should have been an extension a long time ago. Is that being realistic? Is that being hindsight 2020? For me, I'm like,
00:31:07
Speaker
You knew how good this kid was. We've been talking about he's a hundred bajillion dollar player since we started this podcast. So if we can see it and I'm not a GM, I'm not that smart.
00:31:19
Speaker
How were they not able to see that? Well, because the other people who see it are the people around him, his agents and representatives and all that. And they understood the value that they were dealing with early on as well. And I think it's just tough to judge without knowing what went on behind the scenes there and how his camp was handling it, because it is easy for us to sit here and say, like, why didn't they sign this a year ago? Why didn't they sign it two years ago? well, if his representatives are telling him not to sign shit because he's going to hike up his value so much that, uh, that he doesn't need to, then you can't, I mean, like you can't make him sign it if that's what he's being told. And,
00:31:56
Speaker
You know, we we don't know that that's what happened, but I would imagine a big part of why he didn't sign something like that is because ah people were telling him what his value was going to be, what is projected to be, and to bet on himself. And if that's the case, then it worked. They they cooked on that. But it's just, it's I think it's tough to assign blame like that without knowing ah what sort of the mentality was from from his camp. I don't know, Nico, what do you, how do you see that?
00:32:25
Speaker
ah Look, I'm going stand and now if anything, I try to be consistent with my takes and I will stand on the fact that I do think that Ovid should have been compensated and extended a year or two ago, the latest a year ago, because if you don't If you do the extension before a Club World Cup and his breakout year, there's a better chance that you're going to get him secured for the amount of money that you're probably offering him today that he's not willing to take. So I say that knowing that what Ari is saying is completely true.
00:33:08
Speaker
because I have been harsh on on on Craig Weibel. and And if I was making his case, I would say, look, if I had extended Obed to 700,000, maybe I wouldn't have enough money to bring in Ferreira or I wouldn't have enough money to do this or or that. or you know ah The way a salary cap team and in and kind roster build works
00:33:40
Speaker
It's like a puzzle. And if you take one piece, you got to add another. And you're trying to figure out in what way kind of comes together. So although I do believe that that should have been done, I'm going to give Craig the benefit of the doubt and say that it was not under his capability to give even the prior number, because I'm sure that number before was different.
00:34:05
Speaker
But I would have made it a bigger priority. Simple as that, because It didn't take someone being at the field or at training every day to know that, oh, but was a generational talent.
00:34:19
Speaker
And that's where I lay the line, right? If you know that this guy is different, he's built different, you got to treat him different. And therefore you probably should have extended him a lot sooner than anyone else. We have kind of known for a while, like the level of talent we're talking about, which, yeah, that is a ah fair point.
00:34:41
Speaker
it People are bringing up, you know, why not a U22? he should be He should have been a U22 two years ago, a year ago, like whatever. Like that's a million dollars. That's a million dollars. I'm sorry, two years ago, one year ago, Obed Vargas pre-Club World Cup, pre-management switch, pre-all of this, you're telling me that he wouldn't take a max U22 deal? I promise you.
Sounders' Long-term Strategy
00:35:04
Speaker
There would be, and maybe there were conversations and maybe he said no, but I think that it seems a bit ridiculous to think that This season was as much of a breakout season as any of the seasons. like he He brought his game to a level that if you watch you know tape from 2024, he was good. He was really good. You could see it.
00:35:27
Speaker
This year, he put everything into practice. He was scoring more goals. He was doing all of the things that he wanted to do. right He was playing for the Mexican national team. but I mean, these are things that like, that was his growth trajectory.
00:35:41
Speaker
And they didn't lock that up way earlier when I think that when the offers were a little bit few and far between and less, as opposed to now, it might've been an opportunity to toss him that big, that that is a lot of money. That is a lot of money and security um to resign. Yeah. And that's the reality, right?
00:36:03
Speaker
Clearly when and I want to make this very clear for everyone. As far as I know, the Sounders were trying to sign him to an extension from the beginning of the year, of this year. And they allowed for things to um go slowly because he was in the process of changing representation and doing all these things. They said, cool, no problem.
00:36:31
Speaker
Throughout that process is when he's going through this phenomenal season. And then by the time, you know, it's the spring and they're continuing to say this, or we're willing to offer you, new representation is clearly saying, let's hold up. We don't have no rush.
00:36:47
Speaker
So that's part of it. But, Maybe i need to do more digging, but what I don't know is why didn't happen a year ago like we're talking about. and that's where the problem really, really happened, right? And when we know that the Sounders like their long-term contracts,
00:37:06
Speaker
like they've done with Jordan, they've done with Christian, they did with Danny Leyva at one point, ah maybe an extension to a guy that was making so little would have been good early. You know, if he's making a hundred and something thousand, offer him four way early on and just lock him down for a little bit longer. But these are all situations that are very easy for us to sit here and just digest what we don't have.
00:37:30
Speaker
All of the facts, all of the moves, all of the things that they were perhaps looking at in front of them. Yeah, so, I mean, people are bringing up in chat that there an open U22 spot.
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah. So that it does seem a little bit frustrating where you're saying, oh, well, we're going to go shop for a U22 striker. We need that U22 striker. You don't get that deal done. And you then, during the offseason, talk about how difficult it was to find the exact right guy and how, like, we're not even mad that we didn't sign someone. Okay, well, you didn't. Good thing we didn't.
00:38:04
Speaker
and And that's a fair point that's a very for but That's something that I've said But maybe by that time it was too late already yeah right It was maybe too late Because like I said they Right now Obet's not willing to take a top contract Of the U22 He says nope it's not good enough I don't care if you need to go figure it out Clear a DP spot Whatever he's asking for he's like I don't care man This is what I'm asking for And he's in every right to do so But you're right A year ago ah or at the beginning of the year have thrown that full million dollars with the U22 slot open.
00:38:39
Speaker
That's a fair, you know, ah criticism. I've asked myself time and time again, if you were going to go through the summer window and not bring anybody in for Craig...
00:38:54
Speaker
I don't want to relive anything or or you know continue to hit him when it comes to the way he addresses pressers. You just don't want yell at you in another presser. Come on. Come on now. i'm i'm definite That's the least of my worries. When when it comes to what's said on camera, it's the least of my worries. Off camera is different because he might act different. I might act different. you know you know that that But that's not the reality. well I'm being honest about I don't want to continue to harp on the whole on-camera thing. But if if you're going to sit in front of the press and say that you looked at a thousand guys or however many he said and nobody can come and help you, well, maybe compensating the guy that that is...
00:39:39
Speaker
Working for you would have been really good. Now I missed that presser. I wasn't there for it, but that would have been my question. I didn't want to ask that. um But obviously I wasn't there.
00:39:50
Speaker
However, i don't know if it mattered because maybe by that moment in time, it was just too late. Ovid was doing way too well. New representation was now calling the shots and he wanted an X amount that only got bigger as the year went on. And it was over after that.
00:40:09
Speaker
I just feel like we... yeah um Have you guys ever seen this situation with another prospect in and MLS? like I feel like, why can't they just handle it normally like all the other clubs with prospects like this do and sell them for a bag and not be in a situation where he's about to ah leave on a free? And then even if you think you're righteous and you're justification for that, like you shouldn't want to do that, right? I don't know. i Doesn't it feel like a unique situation to to Seattle compared to how these things normally work within MLS?
00:40:44
Speaker
Maybe, uh, I think a lot of it had to do with the type of talent and the situation. You know, the one that ah could have been similar is maybe what happens if Aiden Morris doesn't go to Europe when he did and he stays and you've got to figure him out. I think DeAndre Jettling was a guy that, you know, he left pretty early on. I mean, this was a totally different MLS, but even then, could that have turned to a different situation if he continued to perform at that level? Yeah. So I think it was almost the perfect storm where the Sounders wanted to cash in a little bit on having this really good player for that little salary. And they saw a win now type of window, which, I mean, honestly got them, you know, a CCL title and, you know, now a Champions Cup and, you know, whatever was in between as well.
00:41:46
Speaker
that maybe having that sort of player helps out, right? And you see it a lot in salary cap sports. I've said this before, probably not the best analogy for this specific audience, but, you know, the legion of boom with with with the Seahawks, right? You had this legion of boom because you had all these guys under a rookie contract and it allowed you to go out there and boost that team. And it was a win now type of situation and they cashed in on it, right? Maybe not as much as they could have. But it's the same thing with the Sounders. Well, maybe they saw a situation with Obit that they really wanted to just kind of squeeze out. And now it's to the point where it's like, oh, you know, maybe a little bit sooner would have been better. ah
00:42:26
Speaker
But maybe that's exactly why they feel or or at least Craig, you know, sees it different than I do. I still continue to think that the only way you save this situation is if you move Obit to the right place in the winter window and you get three, four, hopefully 5 million for him.
00:42:48
Speaker
I think it is a good point. The wind now mentality, because like, I will sit here and I will skewer the, the decisions that were made, but also the trophies that were won in that time. Like you can't deny that. And that's what we're here for. It's right like it's relevant.
00:43:03
Speaker
I can be critical and also acknowledge like the, Yeah, what we got from that, what we got from playing for trophies now, playing on a very tight budget, playing with you know a bargain here, a bargain there. yes we're going have to keep pushing off a player like Paul Rothrock to re-sign him because you know maybe we want to bring in Orion Kent. or what do you know we We just don't have that much flexibility. The Sounders, that's just the truth of it. like They kind of operate their budget on zero flexibility all the time.
00:43:35
Speaker
They lock their guys down. They make decisions to win now. That's how it is. That's how Craig Weibel operates. And it has been successful. ah Probably not as much as he would want or we would want, but it has been successful. I think there's a lot of clubs in MLS who would envy that.
00:43:52
Speaker
But what it sacrifices is what we're talking about now, which is we are becoming a development league. What do we care about more? Is it being a business of transferring, developing players, or it about winning trophies in this league?
00:44:08
Speaker
Can we find a balance between the two? Maybe, absolutely. yeah i think the senders are yeah That's a great point. And I think that that's what the Sunners are trying to find with this sort of situations. And I think there will be more prospects that the Sunners will be able to sell at one
Balancing Success and Criticism
00:44:24
Speaker
point. I think Georgie is a guy that has all the...
00:44:28
Speaker
um all of the factors or or or elements of a guy that you could end up selling for more than you got him, right? I think that there was a point where you could have done that with Nuhu. And I think that the Sounders want to get there. Now, they don't want to be Dallas that gives up and sells all of their great young players and then they have nothing to show for when it comes to MLS, right? ah And they also don't necessarily want to be Miami that gets all these prospects with all this money and then sells them and does whatever or Atlanta or, you know, that they want to find him a medium. And that's part of it. But contrary to popular belief.
00:45:13
Speaker
I'm always going to be fair with my assessment of things. And there are things that I value and give Craig Weibel a lot of credit for, including his success, whether people think that's limited or not real success, because there hasn't been an MLS couple all of these things. I, I, I beg to defer. I think that there's a lot of things that Craig Weibel, even, you know, when Garth Lagerwey was here, he was behind the scenes kind of,
00:45:43
Speaker
Helping out with with with everything I do give him credit for What he's been able to do here And then I'll criticize him as Harsely as I feel like I need to criticize Him over other stuff and that's just Because that's the way I roll If I feel like he needs to be criticized Heavily about some things and not so Heavily about others I'm going to do it because that's just the way I do my thing. I'm not going to, don't have an agenda. I don't have ah a specific angle.
00:46:11
Speaker
I look at the things, I see what's fair and that's the way I shoot it out. Let's hit a couple of these super chats and then talk some Hassani Dotson. Does that sound good, guys?
00:46:23
Speaker
We got $1.99 from Kenny. Appreciate you, Kenny. Thanks for the off-season work. Y'all clearly grinding. yeah You guys already know. You guys already know. The off-season content doesn't stop.
00:46:34
Speaker
ah Avenging Syndrome, thank you for the five. Appreciate you. Does Craig not pushing when Obed was changing representation speak to his position of character over raw skill? He's saying we live what we speak.
00:46:47
Speaker
I think what he's getting at there is... ah Like the the Craig Wybes tendency to... ah Well, I think I can give a little a little enough. okay Craig has said that it's not all about raw skill with a player. It's about their character first. And if their character fits in the building, that's something he said in that presser. And then I think that he's talking about how he's... you know Craig means something that Nico has even said. like Craig is a blunt, open book kind of guy where he's like, I respect my players, but I'm also going to be honest.
00:47:19
Speaker
So like... If I can give you the respect of changing representation, I expect you to give the the respect of like negotiating in good faith with me. Maybe that's what they're getting at here is what I'm reading into it.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, it makes sense. And look, this is a very difficult, complex situation because this is just not any guy. This is also a guy that you have...
00:47:45
Speaker
buildup that you kind of got from a situation in Alaska. You've kind of provided all these things for him. You've molded him. You've tendered him. You've allowed him to grow. He has obviously things that he's done on his own to develop and to obviously perform and that's all good and well. So there is a lot there when you're allowing him to change your presentation and everything, as much as Craig is a very ah blunt sort of person and he's going to be like, this is what it is. There's also a part of like, look this is Ovid. Let's let him do things at his own time. And whether or not that is um but good business technique for negotiation, I don't really care. I think that that's a great way to do it. The organization as a club...
00:48:31
Speaker
has always been good with players and and that thing that that continues to be part of the thesis of this club. And I feel like that's important. So um to your point, I do feel like there is something to that effect where Craig being Craig, he is very straightforward. He's hoping that people are straightforward with him and agents specifically, you know,
00:48:55
Speaker
are not that way. This is not over the bargain is having a conversation with Craig just on a zoom call. This is his agent who gives no shits about being straightforward or not. His job is to get his client the highest number possible. And that goes through a whole lot of phases of BS to be quite honest. And that's where things tend to get very dicey.
00:49:18
Speaker
I think it's also like, you know, it can be a situation where it's a penny today. You know, you're chasing a quick penny today, but it's a dollar tomorrow where you get a bad rap with players. They don't want to come here. There's a reason that Jesus Ferrer took a pay cut to come and play for the Seattle Sounders. And that starts with how the organization is seen by players around the league by representation around the league and if you make a bad name for yourself people don't want to come and play for you that's just the truth so i think there is like even if it is like a tiny small percentage of that there is an element of like
00:49:56
Speaker
Yeah, like the Sounders are willing in a sense, in a very small sense, to lose out if it means sticking with their ethos and sticking with what makes them the Sounders because that has gotten them to where they are.
00:50:10
Speaker
Pat coming in with the 14. Polly Primetime, the number of Polly Primetime. Polly Primetime, let's go. Thank you, Pat. Appreciate the support. ah All right, guys.
00:50:22
Speaker
Yeah, I got about five more minutes, so let's talk Dotson, and then we can call it a day on my
Hassani Dotson Signing Analysis
00:50:27
Speaker
end. You guys continue to do your thing. yeah. Of course. we'll get you i appreciate you guys grinding. We'll get you out of here and then we'll probably we'll probably keep cooking for a little bit. But ah yeah, Hassani Dotson, free agent midfielder, has signed with the Seattle Sounders. Let's talk about our reaction to this acquisition, guys. It's a pretty big one. Like I said at the top of the show, this isn't like one of the a fringe role player type of signing. This is a guy who's going to play a big role on the team. Next year he's going to play a lot of minutes and he's going to be an important player.
00:50:58
Speaker
um My first reaction was, you know, it's not it's not flashy or splashy. This one is not going to change anyone's place in the famous Lobbing Scorchers ambition ratings. ah But it is the type of signing that ah they did need to make. It was an area of need with the departures of Zhao Paolo. and Danny Leyva. And with Hassani Dotson, you have a guy who is coming off a pretty major injury towards meniscus last year. He didn't really play that much last year. But I can tell you guys, when he has played, he's been a solidly above average to sometimes even better than that ah center mid in Major League Soccer. He's played for the Loons for the last like six, seven years or so. And there have been, there have been periods of times where he's been one of the better players in the league at that position. He has had two big injuries. He had the one last year and then he did his ACL in 2022. I want to say, ah so, you know, everyone's going to get their, ah their sounder jokes in on that front. But when, when healthy, he's been a high level contributor in the league at a, at this position of need. And he's from federal way. And I think there, there's a, I don't know if there's anything to this, but didn't it feel like when you, when you got guys like, uh, like Kellen Rowe, when he came back, didn't it feel like he kind of got an extra, uh, kind of bit of juice at the end of his career there from coming, uh, coming to the hometown club and, uh,
00:52:27
Speaker
you know, sliding into a new role, but he he just seemed very motivated. So I'm hoping that there's an element of that with Hassani Dotson, where, the you know the excitement of playing for the hometown club will ah bring out the best in him. And he's going to have a chance to ah to show out and show what he can do, because a lot of these minutes that were going to the likes of Danny Leyva and ziao Paulo,
00:52:48
Speaker
Uh, and you know, we don't know what's going to happen with Obed, but Hassani Dotson, if there's a guy on the free agent market that I could have picked for them to, to fill this type of role, I think when you factor in his skillset in the whole federal way storyline, he's about as good a guy, a candidate as I could think of, uh, Nico, since you got a jet soon, uh, let's get your thoughts first. What do you think of, uh, Hassani Dotson signing with the Sounders?
00:53:12
Speaker
um I'm growing to like it a little more. i think initially um I was not underwhelmed. i just thought that it was a a decent move to add depth. I think that Hassani Dotson has all of the Seattle Sounders, Pacific Northwest, Bryant-Smetzer checklist of what ah it takes to be a good player on my book situation. He is versatile. He could play midfield. He could play right back. He has grit.
00:53:50
Speaker
He's a guy that ah has clearly had ah moments in his career where he's had to really push and grind. Through a lot of situations, he's adaptable. um But my skepticism, and and I hope you guys check out a an episode we did with Jeff Reuter, who made me even feel a little bit better about the move. Shout out to him. He's amazing. We did a ah show with him and Jeremiah that should be somewhere in Sandra Hart already. Yeah.
00:54:21
Speaker
And he talks all of the good things about him. So I'm just going to allow you guys to check that out when you guys want to. But my concerns are still the same. So here are my top three concerns. Number one is the high ceiling.
00:54:38
Speaker
Because i am of the thought process that Obel would not be here beyond the winter window. I think of how high is his ceiling in order to take over Ovid Bargaz at that position. Jeff seems to think that he's ready to be a starting center midfielder in MLS. And I totally totally um give him the the right away on that. He knows the player little better than I do. I just don't know if it's going to work the same way or... or
00:55:11
Speaker
even close to what it was with Obed because the profile of the player isn't necessarily the Obed type. And now Jeff made a great point about the idea I have with Dotson is under some coaches that maybe haven't allowed him to play, haven't allowed him to be a guy that puts through balls, that's on the ball a a lot more, that possesses, you know, there's a lot more of that wonderful and and and beautiful Ramsey ball that you, both of you guys just love to talk about. so does ruin this guy's career, poor guy. Does that, you know, change when he's playing for a team like the Sounders, right? But I still feel like,
00:55:53
Speaker
when I look at Hassani Dassen's skill sets, you're not necessarily replacing the ball progression, the passing skills, and the vision that Obed, JP, or Danny Leyva take with their departure at some point. So that's one of my concerns. Number two is the money.
00:56:13
Speaker
How much did you pay for him? I think that's a big one for me specifically. when this all kind of came together and I was going over, ah very late in the game, finding out that this was a done deal.
00:56:30
Speaker
Immediately. My thought was how much are they paying for a guy that's had multiple injuries that whose best years are probably behind them.
00:56:40
Speaker
Um, And is he giving a hometown discount? Because that would make it a better move than if you didn't. So that's another one of my concerns. And their number three is, can he continue to stay healthy?
00:56:57
Speaker
You know, the Sounders have been so unfortunate when it comes to getting players with prior injuries and those injuries in any other way becoming other problems, whether it's the other knee or whether it's a related injury or the same injury. I just, I feel like it would be ah something to monitor is if Dotson comes in here, he's already been back, right? He's played minutes in the playoffs and and that's awesome. He's going to come into a full preseason, but I feel like everyone is going to be waiting for that first injury because that's just the way it is, right? that the The narrative with the Sounders has been they get these players that have injuries and those injuries continue to be an issue throughout it. So that sort of...
00:57:52
Speaker
feeding into that narrative Makes me a little bit concerned because it does put a lot of pressure on the player, puts a lot of pressure on the situation. So those are my three big concerns in regards to O'Sonnie Dotson.
00:58:04
Speaker
Can I just say, I like what you're saying and I love Jeff Reuter. So I trust Jeff's analysis, but I think too, maybe something we're not thinking enough about is a player that I have to be honest, Ari loves a guy who is young,
00:58:24
Speaker
has a very high ceiling, and has the potential to fight for a position over Dotson. That's Snyder Brunel. And I think that there is a possibility that having Hassani dots in there, giving him minutes, giving Snyder Brunel minutes, being able to have them kind of compete and work together.
00:58:44
Speaker
It might make the perfect depth sense. Like Dotson might be the perfect depth player in that position where he can be a Christian rolled on. So when they've played Christian rolled on 20 matches in a row and given him zero breaks, Or like, you know, God forbid he gets injured.
00:58:59
Speaker
And then you have Snyder Brunel in there as well, being that more young, dynamic, high ceiling player. i i like the signing because of that. Like, I like the signing because while he is 28, he's not getting any younger.
00:59:16
Speaker
The reality is he's a known factor. You know what he can give you in this league. he's from He's from around here. you know there's ah There's an ease that comes with that. And it gives an opportunity potentially for Snyder Brunel to maybe get some minutes in there and and be that high ceiling next Obed player without like...
00:59:36
Speaker
just having get put in the starting lineup, which when they sold Danny and, you know, we were realizing that Obed might be gone in the next, not this transfer window, but the next one, it was like, oh shit, get ready, buddy.
00:59:48
Speaker
That takes a lot of the pressure off that, I think. Yeah, no and I buy what you're selling before you go, Ari. However, I think that The reality is the opposite. I feel like they do want Dotson to get first bite at the minute. So Snyder can continue to develop and not have to be trial by fire and just work on what he needs to work on, continue to progress. And then eventually maybe he does take over, but, but, but I'm i'm buying what you're selling.
01:00:19
Speaker
Nico, do you need to, ah to, to jet? Let me hear yours and then I'll, I'll go. Well, i was I was just thinking, I mean, so first of all, I think he's but he's more of a like-for-like skill set-wise to Christian than Obed.
01:00:34
Speaker
ah he and Obed are very different players. If you're if you're playing Dotson instead of obed You are losing a lot of the stuff that ah Nico mentioned in terms of ball progression and maybe passing vision and stuff like that. I do think you would be gaining in other factors. I think Hassani Dotson is better defensively than obed Uh, and I think he's more goal dangerous than Obed. At least Obed got a lot more goal dangerous towards the end of this last year. But I think generally speaking, Hassani Dotson has, i think like 17, 18 MLS goals. He also scores a lot of, uh, bangers. You'll notice. He's a bagger. He's a bagger. He has a reputation in the Loons fan base as like the Jimmy Madranda, like bangers only style of player. But he can get you – he's probably going to get ah get three to five goals this year. And so he can – he gives you that kind of actual stat sheet production to go along with the two-way skill set you're getting out of that midfield role, theoretically at least. So I think it's it's also –
01:01:39
Speaker
like his fit for Schmetzer ball specifically, at least what we saw Schmetzer ball evolve into over this last year. I feel like he's pretty, he's really good for it. Like he is a high work rate type of player and he's definitely like, uh, he, he's got like a little bit of that Roth rock in him and how he doesn't kind of back down from anybody. And he's definitely, a physical player, which is why he's excelled as in that center mid role and as a, as a fullback. So it's, I guess it's just a long way of saying like whatever minutes that he takes that Obed would have been playing if Obed leaves, uh, you're, uh, you're definitely changing skill sets, but he gives, he gives you, i think, positive attributes in a different way. As for the injury concern, it definitely is a concern, not trying to minimize it. I do think sometimes there's recency bias with that where like he got injured last year, so that's like what's fresh on everyone's mind. ah
01:02:36
Speaker
If you go through his career, I don't know if there's been that much more above-average amount of injuries than anyone else, aside from the fact that he also had an ACL. But I don't know if an ACL and a blown meniscus over the course of a guy's career is radically different than what it could have been for any player that we wouldn't consider injury prone. So we'll see what happens with that. He does have to stay healthy. He is coming off a big injury. But as far as the, ah as far as the, the skillset goes and his fit in the Schmetzer ball system, I think there is a lot to like from, ah from those standpoints.
01:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, and the other thing that I thought Jeff did a great job on is another one of my red flags was the situation when ah he went very public about wanting to transfer out of Minnesota United. And I found that, you know, i went back, looked at what he had said, and I was like, oh, I don't really like that. ah But, you know, Jeff was like, look, it was out of character. So really check that out. I put a lot of...
01:03:33
Speaker
um I rate Jeff's opinion very high. So I'm going to take that and I'm going to go with it because he's earned it, right? He's an insider. He's done the day-to-day. I give him the right respect that I would give myself in the same situation. um But I do think that where we can all agree is that you're not necessarily getting a OBIT type or even layover type. and And that just makes me a little concerned because the the pivots are such a huge feature of this team or so it was last year.
01:04:12
Speaker
If you change that, how much does that change the rest of the the system from working? I'm hoping it's not a lot. but But then again, we have the possibility of Snyder-Burnell and all of these other things. But it all goes back again to that number that you're paying. And I hate to be that guy that's so worried about the salary. But he was making $680, think, with compensation last year. So let's say you paid him $700.
01:04:40
Speaker
ah You know, having a guy that is not going to be your starter at 700 doesn't look like the best move at times. So there's all these things that I i feel like are going to end up weighing in.
01:04:55
Speaker
We sat Raul on the bench for while. That's what I'm saying. it i'll go And he feel like he it and it felt like he weighed down, right? He felt like it was like oh, that money could be spent elsewhere. So um' yeah I really want to know what the number is. We'll try to figure that out later on. But regardless of, I would say that I'm i'm on board more now than I was when I first heard of the move. um And a lot of that has to do with Jeff Reuter's opinion on the player.
01:05:22
Speaker
I would say that he's an addition. He's a good addition to the roster. um And I hope he goes well. I'm definitely more excited to be quite frank. And this is the way I'll finish it out today. I'm more excited that the Sounders were able to secure Paul.
01:05:42
Speaker
Then they were bringing Hassani Dotson. I think that tells you everything you need to know about how good or not I feel about the Dotson situation. Yeah. And that's about everything. Hope you guys ah enjoy my time here. As always, I appreciate the work you guys do. Grinding this late night is is is's not easy. um
01:06:06
Speaker
JB to Austin was... was um Officially put out, you know, we we had that on Lovin's quarters early. We talked about him potentially moving there that got certified. And now he's in Austin. That's going to be interesting for funds to watch over the next couple of, of, of years. Cause it's a two and a half. That's another thing. Let's now start to think of things as contracts ended in June. We've now seen it a couple of times, obviously with Stefan Fry being is going to be here through June of 2027. And JB is going to be with Austin through June of 2028 with an option of 2029. So that's kind of kind of cool that we're starting to see those things.
01:06:51
Speaker
Hell yeah. Congrats to J-Bell. You love to see that. Nico, thank you for tapping in. Thank you for breaking the Rothrock news today. I know you made my day with that one. Thank you guys for the quick trigger there on the IGs. He gets the people going, baby. He gets the people going. I'm glad that we get to promo you as much as we can. Literally. Guys, if you don't follow Nico...
01:07:16
Speaker
on Twitter, El Rolo NW, Blue Sky, El Rolo NW, all of them. Put on notifications. It's off season. What are you doing? He literally has every scoop. Tommy Scoops fears this man.
01:07:30
Speaker
i love you guys. Take care. Peace out, Nico. no i have I have a tweet here. I have a tweet here. Oops. Oh, I just wanted to show you guys. This is my reason why I like this. Sonny Dotson trade. He's already pissing off Minnesota fans. He's already pissing them off. What is this comment on?
01:07:51
Speaker
um i think Dane's he commented on maybe Dane. Oh, that's theric that ah Dane St. Clair is going to enter Miami, which people did want us to talk about that. Yeah. as well But ah let's stay on Dotson for a second. Let's let you cook on that. ah How are you feeling about this swoop? It's one that we talked about when we were evaluating the ah free agent list.
01:08:16
Speaker
theyre they're just It seems like a very obvious thing. And there's honestly, there's been kind of smoke around him coming to the club for years. Although people were saying when we were talking about him that he had some sort of anti-Seattle situation. sentiment to him but clearly if that was the case it's not the case anymore but uh he's here he's back with the hometown squad what do you uh what do you think of the addition how do you how are you feeling about it i mean it's great first i want to thank hunch punch for the 10 gifted members thank you so much thank you so much um
01:08:47
Speaker
And, dude, I like it. I like it. Like, I like it. It is... What you were saying is very true. Like, I'm not really in the Nico camp. I'm more in the U camp where I see him as a Roldan backup, knowing that Roldan is going to be playing a lot of games, especially if he makes it to the World Cup. He's been very durable, but he is getting older. And so the ability to have someone that you trust to slot in there, ah rest Roldan, has that, like, that tenure in MLS...
01:09:17
Speaker
That makes me feel good because I'm telling you, they really could have used him last year. Yes, they could have used him. didn't have yeah You were literally talking about this for so long, how they needed, they should look for an eight. They should look for an eight. They should look for an eight with that U22. Yeah. Yeah. That was my agenda.
01:09:35
Speaker
I think that this is a good in between for that, right? Like, I think it is interesting to see what number he's on. Sure. But if you do get good production out of him and you are able to rest and keep rolled on healthy, that's tight.
01:09:48
Speaker
I dig that. And honestly, gotta to be honest with you. If they do sell a bed, I want them starting Snyder. I want the trial by fire. I don't care, man. I want him to play. He's ready.
01:10:01
Speaker
He is ready. He is. See, yeah. And I, well, I don't think, uh, Dotson, signing precludes Snyder from playing a lot next year. Everyone's going to play. There's like 70 games in 127 different tournaments that they're going to have to play in next year, just like there was this last year. and that's why like, I'm less concerned about the number from, unless it's something insane.
01:10:24
Speaker
ah Like even if he's not technically like a starter in the first choice, 11, Hassani Dodson is going to be starting a lot of games. Like, yeah. given all the competitions that they're playing. And you can't, contrary to popular belief and contrary to what the Seattle Sounders tried last year, you cannot play Christian Roldan every single second of every single minute of every single one of those games. This gives you a lot more, kind like we yeah like someone in chat was saying, well, they had Danny Leyva that could have spelled Christian. I don't think it's the same thing. It's an entirely different skill set.
01:10:57
Speaker
And I think that Danny Leyva's strong attributes, uh does it doesn't it feel like Hassani Dotson's skill set's just a better fit for Seattle's system than a guy like Danny Leyva who's got a lot of really strong attributes and is very talented but in ways that maybe don't lend itself to Seattle's system in particular uh in a way that I think Hassani Dotson's skill set actually does like he's he he's pretty similar to Christian, honestly, in, in a lot of ways, like he's got that work rate, like willingness to cover ground and do dirty work that Christian has. He is not as good a facilitator as Christian or Obed, but he's D he's decent enough. And like I said, he's more gold dangerous than a lot of the other options that they would have had for this spot in the past. So I think ah from, from that standpoint, it definitely, you know, i ah
01:11:54
Speaker
I can see the logic behind why they did it. And I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got to offer just because i feel like it might be, I feel like it might be more than people think it's one of those intro MLS moves. That's not going to, people are not going to be praising this very much. I don't think the pundits are going to have much to say about it. Uh,
01:12:12
Speaker
I think the fans, a lot of the fans are happy because of the federal way connection, but maybe not necessarily because of anything they know of him as a player. i mean, this is, this is a player who ah he's been playing at a very high level for Minnesota United. It's not like a bit player or a role player. It's a decently high level MLS starter that I think could potentially offer even more than that, depending on how he fits in with Seattle. So ah that's, yeah that's kind of where I sit with that.
01:12:40
Speaker
i'm I'm literally, I'm right there with you. And I think that it's, it's just a smart move. Like it's just a smart move. It's, it's nothing flashy. It's nothing crazy. It is kind of what we've come to expect from the Sounders.
01:12:55
Speaker
Sure. Like, I think it's fair to be questioning, signing a guy coming off of a major injury. Absolutely. Like fair enough. ah But it's I think it's also a little bit of PTSD, right? Yes. like i I think that we we we have maybe gotten a little bit like hung up on that because we have seen someone like Pedro who whatever. did There's just been luck involved in that. And I don't know, man. Yeah.
01:13:25
Speaker
I think that he's going to find his role. I think it's going to show to be a solid signing. It may not be the greatest signing in the world, but that's not really the point. The point is that like we needed a player like this last year. There were games and points in the regular season, very specifically, that I remember where Christian Roldan was having bad games or he wasn't available. And the the whole pivot was just a mess. And so finding a guy who has a defensive work rate similar...
01:13:55
Speaker
uh it just it's it's and can play and can play fullback at a high level like that's another thing they could have used last year too is more cover there like there it's gonna limit situations where remember like remember there was even situations last year where you had like alex rolled on like playing center back and shit like like stuff like that happening with the fullbacks especially when you consider that honestly maybe alex rollba could convert to cb because he played pretty fucking good when he was there You have to you have to account for the fact that three of the fullbacks in any given month are going to get ejected and suspended. so Correct. This helps you cover for the crash out red card boys as well, which I hadn't even thought of that. But, you know, you got to think about these things.
01:14:35
Speaker
You got to think about these things. New meta. apparently Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, i mean, people are people are concerned about the injuries, and I get that. I wouldn't...
01:14:47
Speaker
I feel like it's not it's not as chronic as people are making it sound. Like it is he was injured last year, yeah, and he's coming off that injury, but it's not like he hasn't it's not like he's been limited for like five years in a row type situation. he's been let's I mean, I'll pull up his ah player page, but he has played a lot of and MLS minutes over the years, so he can't have been that injured.
01:15:11
Speaker
I understand. This guy could be Cope. That could be Cope because i he did his ACL too. But ah let's i mean let's take a look at this. He has played 149 MLS games and over 10K minutes for his career. He did only play in eight games last year. The two years before that, 2024, he played 29 games. 2023, he played all 34 games. 2022 is the year he his ACL. That was only seven games. But then in the three years prior to that, he played 29, 18, 24. So his track record has largely been durable, except for the two seasons where he got hurt. So that might be Cope, but I don't think it's like... People are making it sound like this guy has never played before because his knees are always torn to shreds. I don't think that's quite accurate.
01:15:55
Speaker
No, I agree. i'm i'm I'm pro this move, and ah we'll see how it goes. We'll see how he he fits in, but it's...
01:16:05
Speaker
whatever people people can be mad but it's a good move it's a smart move well i will say to be fair like the the injury concerns are are valid and by and large like if you look at our comments and stuff people are like hell yeah two five three two five three type stuff so it actually it hasn't been getting as panned as craig wives intrammel s move usually does like the ferrera trade got way more negative reaction than than this but That's true. That one aged beautifully. So honestly, whatever heat they do take for it, hopefully that follows the same trajectory. Noah, anything else on Dotson? Everyone loved the Ryan Kent move. Everyone loved the Ryan Kent move. Including us.
01:16:46
Speaker
And what happened? Yeah. Yeah. We want to talk about injuries. Yeah. Let's, let's talk, you know, what what what are we going to do? What are you going to do we'll we'll We'll see what happens. maybe Maybe he gets injured again, but I don't know. I don't see like that much of a reason to think that off one year with a torn meniscus, but that's just me.
01:17:07
Speaker
Noah, you want to ah you want to hit Ryan Saylor move real quick, and then we can get into this other
Ryan Saylor's Role and Potential
01:17:12
Speaker
stuff? yeah it's Great name. Yeah. So, okay. That's as a couple of people have pointed out, the Seattle Sounders have also signed a player named anchor and a player named sailor and anchor. Great name in the last few days. So that's a good bit. Craig is doing bits for us. So you all should appreciate him for that. You got a sailor. you got an anchor anchor. I know literally nothing about, but as like a third goalkeeper, Jacob Castro guy seems fine to me based on what I saw. better than, better than Jacob Castro. Yeah, he's better than Jacob Castro.
01:17:46
Speaker
Better than Jacob Castro. Ryan Saylor is more of an interesting one, i think, as far as like what role he could play on the first team. I also don't know all that much about Ryan Saylor.
01:17:59
Speaker
But from what I can tell, he you know he was ah he was a star player for udub on He played with KKR and ah at least one other guy on the Sounders. I can't remember who, but he was a really good player for UW. He's been a nice pick in the draft, dude. Yeah, he's a top 10 super draft pick. Inter-Miami drafted him and kept him these last four years. And from what from what I can tell, he actually played a fair amount his rookie year. He played like 20 games over 1,000 minutes. And then ever since then, they have kind of just been stashing him and not really playing him. The last time I heard about him actually was ah Javier Mascherano gave him minutes in Inter-Miami on decision day. I think they were like way ahead or something. And he gave Ryan Saylor minutes as like, I think a recognition of him being a hard worker in training or whatever, which I actually thought that was ah ah a good move by Mascherano. Like that was an example of him showing more like aptitude for actual coaching than I would have thought. Like giving the guy, Javier Mascherano,
01:19:06
Speaker
who is of the messy and the Barca boys ilk giving minutes to a rando random super draft pick like Ryan Saylor like that. I was like, that's, that's, and that's nice. Good job. Javi Mascherano, but then there he cooked, he cooked there. But ah now Ryan Saylor is back with the, with the Sounders. And I frankly have kind of no idea what he has to offer. Cause he hasn't played a lot of minutes since his rookie year, which was in 2022, but it is another local guy coming back.
01:19:31
Speaker
So that's kind of cool. I guess that's the theme of the off season. Uh, You have any thoughts on Ryan? sal I really like have not watched him play hardly at all. I mean, he he's definitely... like I've seen him score a couple of goals. He played some preseason games with Miami when they did their like Asia tour.
01:19:47
Speaker
ah He scored a goal against some like random team somewhere. He had an Open Cup goal. So i was watching some of his highlights there. He's like...
01:19:58
Speaker
A defensive prospect, like, like, no, he's like 27 though. So it's like prospect. Yeah. Like, I mean, I think, I think he's a John bell attempt replacement. Like, I think that he may be, i think it's an unknown.
01:20:14
Speaker
I really don't know that much about him. I think John Bell is like a good comp for the type of role that he's going to play on the roster. I think John Bell would probably be better.
01:20:25
Speaker
Like John Bell, John Bell had more minutes because he was playing St. Louis, but he was like a fringe type of player. But like, I think that the John Bell like comparison is probably the closest that I can get for people to just like get it Yeah, they're I mean, they're different in that John Bell can play a little left back, which I don't think Ryan Saylor can do. But as far as a rotational defender who isn't going to be your first choice starter or even like your first CB off the bench, but can fill in in those situations where it's needed, where you've got injuries or a ton of rotation and play like...
01:20:59
Speaker
30 minute substitute cameos or make a spot start when needed. It's probably what what we're looking at with, uh, with Ryan sailor, but who knows, honestly, he could have more to offer than that. For all we know, he never, he never really got off the bench inter Miami the last few years, but that's, that's not always because he can't play. It's just like, there's other guys that they feel like they need to play above him. Like, uh,
01:21:23
Speaker
Maxi Falcone or whatever. One of the worst crash outs in the entire league. Yeah. One of the worst CBs in MLS. But well I guess that's kind of like a not good thing is that he couldn't play over guy like Falcone. And being a bad CB in MLS means you're just like a really, really bad CB. Because famously, according to everyone on the internet, and MLS doesn't defend.
01:21:48
Speaker
So that's like... it is It is true that like some of the lowest salary is spent on the on the the back line. and Yeah, there is truth to that. So being a really bad MLS CB is actually... Yeah.
01:22:03
Speaker
But ah Ryan Saylor, we don't even know if he's if he's if he's bad or good because he hasn't played a lot. So that's we'll we'll see what happens with that. That's all I have on Ryan Saylor. It's just frankly not a guy I know a lot about.
01:22:17
Speaker
I mean, it's cool. He's you know he's a UW guy. He's coming back. yeah um I think that clearly, you know, he's got that similar defensive. e I mean, he played with Miami for four years. He he went on the bench. Clearly, Mascherano liked him for his work ethic. And if Mascherano likes you enough to put you in a game, even giving you charity minutes at that point, I think that says a lot to like Yeah. Your attitude because Mascherano is just fucking doesn't care. You know what I'm saying? So like he clearly made an impact. And to me, that's, that's a message. ah That's a coach being like, just because you didn't play this year doesn't mean you didn't deserve to. Right.
01:22:56
Speaker
That's sort of what I take from the fact that he did that. So that indicates that he probably was at least training well ah with inner Miami and the coach liked him. So that's something positive.
01:23:08
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. We'll see we'll see how it comes up, a welcome home, kid. um How are feeling about the offseason as we as
Off-Season Player Moves
01:23:16
Speaker
we stand right now? Picked up the last couple days, but I'll say for myself, this Rothrock news gave me a lot more juice, and then ah I would say the dot the Dotson thing did too, ah not because it's like a seismic blockbuster type move, but i just i what I enjoy about this time of year is like when you get...
01:23:37
Speaker
a new player who's going to play a big role and is actually good. I love the kind of ritual of talking about the fit and picturing him in the jersey and how how they're going to affect the team next year and all that stuff. It's like ah it's one of those exciting times of year or times in a time of year that's like not always that exciting, I guess. So ah I'm I'm I'm pretty juiced. How are you feeling about the offseason?
01:24:00
Speaker
You know, it's not, I don't know. It's not doing it for me at Ari. I gotta be honest with you. like Getting Rothrock back, has felt that felt good today.
01:24:11
Speaker
But there's no big blockbuster transfers happening. There's nothing where I'm like, oh my God, I'm getting super excited. It's kind of continuation of last year, filling some holes. like We know who our big players are. so like i understand I think Ferreira was a genuinely big move last offseason. It just didn't feel like it because it's like an FC Dallas guy. That's true. last offseason felt bigger to me honestly that's that's true i meant more of a like you know we we kind of were like okay jordan morris is a dp now okay like you know it was it felt a lot less heavy like we're not getting hunman son is what i'm saying like it's it's it's we're not we're not signing benteke we're not signing which god craig please how fucking fun would that be please sign benteke Um, you know, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of just like random big, name you know, we're not getting a big name. We're not getting a big name and that's fine. That's not, I just come to terms with that. I know that's something that, uh, uh, is a point of contention for a lot of people. We've gone back and forth on that issue a lot over the years. And I've kind of talked about how I i wouldn't mind it
01:25:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I guess it just depends like what scale we're, we're talking. If we're talking about being the team that is going after guys like Sun Hung Min, just kind of came to the conclusion that I need to accept in my own mind that this club just doesn't, it's not, isn't really that club. And, uh,
01:25:43
Speaker
if you're hoping for this to be that club, you're just, you're probably going to be disappointed. My take on that has always been like, if you're not going to be a club that goes for super big names or splashy transfers like that, you just better still win. And they, they did do that last year. So as long as they keep doing that, I'm, I'm okay with it. Not being the splashiest, uh,
01:26:05
Speaker
type of transfer club of all time. But I see what you're saying. Like it is, it is hard. I, I relate to the feeling of like almost envy of the clubs that do do that type of stuff. Cause that, that stuff is undeniably exciting. And then you look at the type of impact that a guy like son and Thomas Miller had on their teams last year.
01:26:26
Speaker
It did. It did look fun. It looked like incredible vibes. ah But yeah, Me personally, like I don't need the Sounders to be like that if they're winning through other ways, I guess. but No, I appreciate the way that the Sounders operate.
01:26:41
Speaker
It gives us moments like Paul Rothrock, you know, like taking a chance on a guy like Paul Rothrock. Giving him a lot of minutes, making him be ah a main fixture. That's exciting. That's fun.
01:26:54
Speaker
But like, yeah, like it does kind of get a little, I get, I get envy. I get FOMO. I am pocket watching. i am looking at other teams. I'm roster watching Ari. I'm, I'm worse than pocket watching. I'm roster watching. i'm like, God damn. It's kind of sick that Vancouver white caps just signed Mueller And like, that was tight. Like, that was cool. I thought it was kind of dumb at first. And I was like, man, but no, but like the vibes were kind of called the penalty kick merchant. He is a penalty kick merchant, but it is tight. Like, it's still cool. Like, he's still a cool guy. He seems like a good, like I would, I would drink a really shitty German beer with him. Like, why not? like Fuck it
01:27:33
Speaker
But like Sun, I mean, son Sun is a messy tier move. That is a move where like, you know, only only a team like LAFC or Miami can really like afford to make.
01:27:47
Speaker
But like, man, would that not be so sick? Would it not be so sick to get something like seattle does Seattle does have uniquely unexciting dps That doesn't mean that they're not good or not worthy of their DP status, but like Jordan Morris and Albert Rusnak, like it doesn't have the the punch, of but the name value punch, which i don't I don't value that that much. You're forgetting Pedro de la Vega, Ari, because he's somehow a DP and never plays. Yeah. That's a fair point, though. i think so I think someone said in chat, like, it doesn't have to be Sun, but ah but a Ladero would be nice. Well, like, De La Vega is theoretically, like, that role on the on the roster, whatever you think of that. He's been injured a lot, but, like, in terms of being a a player of extremely high talent that is very exciting and fun to watch when he does play.
01:28:42
Speaker
that ah that That would be who that is. Yeah, no, no. Like when he when he money plays, it's great. It's just when, you know? yeah You know, he he played a like 25 plus matches last year or something.
01:28:59
Speaker
DP playing 50% of your matches. Okay, welcome back, Raul Ruiz. I've seen enough. Welcome back, Raul Ruiz. I'm not going to argue with that. i'm just i'm I'm talking about it from like a talent perspective. Listen,
01:29:12
Speaker
if he plays a full healthy season this year, once he comes back from shattering his kneecap by accidentally tripping over the Yankees stadium, fucking infield, like that was ridiculous. That's not his fault. If he can come back and do that, man, like, Oh God, he, he could, he could be so good. He could be. And I think that's my problem is like, I keep getting like, I'm like almost there. I'm like, I'm like, okay, Pedro, I'm ready to leave.
01:29:39
Speaker
I saw enough from him. like like He played enough last year for me to feel completely convicted in his like ability and his impact when he's playing. It's just he has been injured a lot.
01:29:53
Speaker
Well, I mean, like yeah, I agree with you, the talent's there, but like it's the problem of... like You can be talented and not play Ryan Kent. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, that's, that's my problem is like, I want a son. I want a messy. I want a, a, for the penalty kick merchant that he is molar. Like, do you know what i mean? Like how fucking tight would that be? How tight would that be? It'd be cool. It's just, it's just not something they've done really. Dempsey is the closest thing that the Sounders give me a Ladero have ever done, you know?
01:30:26
Speaker
Give me a Raul. Give me a Raul, man. Like, I just, I don't know. I don't know. it's it's It's tough. It's tough to be mad because, like, again, we did win. You know, we won League's Cup and very heavily on the back of incredible Pedro de la Vega performances. And it's like, I do see what he brings. I do.
01:30:49
Speaker
And also, I don't get to see him enough. i I just want to see him. I just want to see him. I want to see him. I think it's important that he like make it through a full season to show that he can do that, but also, you know, just so you can, so we can see if he can have the actual sustained impact of some of those other, other DPs in the league. Cause I think he can. And I think he did. I think we saw that for, like you said, like he carried the team through leagues cup where they were by far the best team in that tournament. And it wasn't even close. Look at the standings. i did this recently. Look at the standings again from the leagues cup, like opening stage or whatever, like,
01:31:30
Speaker
They were clowning on to everyone out there, and Cruz Azul. So it it is it is just a tough situation because the ceiling is so high and it just feels like we haven't got to see it consistently enough. But I don't even know how we how we got off
Washington's Soccer Talent Spotlight
01:31:46
Speaker
on that. ah Do you want to talk about ah this UW natty and then get into your stuff? All right.
01:31:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, I, I, uh, congratulations to the university of Washington on winning, ah their first ever national championship in men's soccer.
01:32:06
Speaker
Many good prospects have come out of the university of Washington um and play for the Sounders. And so somehow in a way, this feels like a Seattle Sounders W that's just my take on it. And it's great. I am not a university of Washington Huskies men's soccer fan, but I will celebrate and I will be excited because way better that they win it than ah any other team.
01:32:30
Speaker
yeah, Who were they playing? North Carolina Tar Heels? they were playing the Wolf Pack. NC State. Yeah, NC State. No one wants and NC State winning the netting.
01:32:44
Speaker
Yeah, no one wants NC State. And they were but the the best part about that whole game was they were playing, they always play in Cary, North Carolina. That's like where they host all of the the Elite Eight Final Four for soccer, and men's and women's.
01:32:57
Speaker
And so it was just packed stadium full, full Wolfpack fans, right? And like when they scored that game winner was just silent.
01:33:08
Speaker
And it was like the sickest thing ever because they equalized twice. And it was just, you know, the most rowdy crowd. Everyone's getting stoked. You know, it's too two late game, three minutes or like a couple minutes, like one minute left. And they're they score their their game winner. And yeah, it was it was kind of awesome just to like shut up. 14,000 North Carolina. that was That was fire. Like that that must be. what one of the best feelings as an athlete, like even, even better than making your home crowd go crazy. Just shutting a stadium of people like that, the fuck up. Like that must be the greatest feeling you can have as a player.
01:33:50
Speaker
And it was a, it was a sick moment to get to watch their team do that. But like also just have a moment like that, a golden goal game winner in the natty on the road. Like that is some real, and I didn't even realize they were that Good. Like I thought UW was good, but not like natty good, but apparently they are that good. And I haven't looked into it that much, you but do you, do you know how much, uh, like how many Sounders connections there are as far as like Academy kids or guys like Christian rolled on that they're going to rig the super draft to,
01:34:26
Speaker
go-getter i don't know i don't know i haven't done any any research but i will say for you ah university of washington was unranked and unseated going into this tournament so they made a very impressive run uh the women's team also did um they made an incredible run and made it into very deep with it were they in the lead eight or final four chat can help me out with that but obviously it was, you know, it wasn't, it was um kind of a very romantic. i don't know if romantic is the right word, but like a very like a Cinderella run is what I was looking yeah for both of these teams. And um that rocks like that's, that's so great. And, you know, the, the UW women's team did, uh have uh a death in their in their team and so it was just this very like this the the story of it all was very impressive and important and cool um and and this is the like seattle connection 20 of the 29 players are from yeah washington state so
01:35:31
Speaker
This is the hotbed for soccer in America. Like you can say it's, it's Dallas, Texas. You can say it's Texas. You can say it's New Jersey. You can say any state you want, but when it comes down to it,
01:35:45
Speaker
Washington state. We know, we know how to play soccer and we don't play soccer in the rain. We know how to play soccer in the rain. Can you say that for Dallas? No, 120 degree heat. Trust me. I was FC Dallas Academy.
01:35:56
Speaker
i you know, when it would rain, I would have my best games because no one, out no one knew how to play down there in that. So just saying, just saying, think about it. They're good at playing in the 120 degree heat, but that's not a skill that should be no admired.
01:36:10
Speaker
No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't. i you know you You can adapt to the heat, the rain. That's that's something you got a train from when when you're a kid. so Shout out to UW, man. Shout out. Congrats. People say they want Richie Amon. I don't think he's going to be a sounder. I think he's going to be drafted.
01:36:28
Speaker
The Sounders don't have a first-round draft pick, guys. easy He will not be a Sounder. They don't pick until the like midway through the second round. So if you're planning on watching the Super Draft tomorrow, which I have no idea why you would ah be doing that unless you have to, like I do. I'm watching it. Are you kidding me?
01:36:48
Speaker
you're You're going to the whole thing? I think it's ah also... like not even possible that the Sounders are going to buy a Super Draft pick because I saw, I saw one went for like, it was like either threw like 300 or $400,000 in gam. I was like, what the fuck are we doing? A Super Draft pick? It's like watching me. In 2026, I thought this was good. It's not, by the way. want to let everyone know.
01:37:14
Speaker
including the god okay i've got to go on a rant here ari is this you you cook for a second you you had something to say then i'll rant well it's just always funny looking at the different approaches that uh different clubs take to the super draft like most clubs don't really give a shit about it like seattle has picks first round picks some years this year they don't and they've used it At different points to great effect, Christian rolled on, super draft pick. But then you have you had the year where like FC Cincinnati, before their expansion season, loaded up on like 20 super draft picks. And we're like, with this we're going to bring our USL squad up and then just fill it out with super draft picks. And that's going to be our team. And they just immediately wouldn't spoon so hard. But then I was going through all the picks. that people have this year today, and it's like the Colorado Rapids have like nine selections.
01:38:10
Speaker
what like What leg up do you think this that this gives you to have that many? Even if you want to put like a big emphasis on the super draft because you think you can finesse some depth out of it, that's too many picks, Colorado Rapids. you're not going there's no way There's no way as detailed as their scouting department is. There's no way they know – the super draft pool well enough to make nine well-informed selections. Uh, I don't know. It's just like, there's three or four teams and it's usually the same ones that just load up on super draft picks. And it's never any of the teams that are all that relevant. So it's also never any of the teams who know how to develop players.
01:38:50
Speaker
Like, yeah it's really funny. Like, you know, When is the last time a Colorado Rapids player like made it out the mud? Not, not and like the, who's the guy they transferred recently?
01:39:06
Speaker
They did Austin trustee Cole Bassett. That's who I'm thinking of. Like, okay. And what's he doing? Not do anything wherever they transferred him. Right. Like i haven't heard that name. I haven't heard that name in years. He's back on the Colorado Rapids. Yeah. He's back on the rap. That's how bad he was. He's back on the Rapids. Like what, what are we talking about? But, um, Oh, James has it. James has it. Bombito.
01:39:29
Speaker
they cooked the pubido Yeah. They cooked with that. But this is, this is what I'm talking about. Okay. This was my rant when I was sitting in the press box during the club world cup famously, i may or may not have had a crash out and was partially preemptively banned from the press box accidentally. Um, when I was able to get into the press box, I was sat there respectfully and I was actually sitting next to the one and only Jeff Reuter.
01:40:01
Speaker
Funny enough, sitting to my right was a FIFA official. a man who was very high ranking in the FIFA, the FIFA apparatus. There's a lot of them. There's a lot of these guys. There's a lot of these guys and gals who just did their dis exist. Right.
01:40:17
Speaker
So we're getting to chatting. I like to chat. It's great. And he's like, yeah, American soccer has a lot to learn. They've got a lot to change. And I said, Oh, like what's your biggest gripe? And he said, Oh,
01:40:30
Speaker
College soccer. It's just disgusting. It just, it doesn't make any sense. They don't produce anyone. The rules are different. It's such a waste. Everyone should just go to an academy and play for a team and blah, blah, blah, bla blah bla blah blah blah. And I turned to him and I said, you, you know, this, this team who you're watching play right now, who is competing.
01:40:56
Speaker
and playing well right now. The players who you specifically had pointed out to me like 20 minutes ago, they went to college. Oh, well, it was different 10 years ago. No. um That center back back there, you know you know that center back who just made a stop against Atletico Madrid and PSG and against Messi in a final.
01:41:17
Speaker
That guy went to Michigan. that that That guy was a super, like that that guy was a college athlete. And you look here now, James has it perfectly right. Some of those draft picks have gone for higher than seven-figure salaries. Bombito, Patrick Ajiman. Ajiman was like d three originally. Yes!
01:41:37
Speaker
I'm sorry. College soccer, the MLS Super Draft, it still has a place. It still has its purpose. And if you're saying... that it doesn't, you literally don't know ball. You literally don't know ball. You don't. I'm sorry.
01:41:51
Speaker
I think its significance is not what it once was, but there is no certain... Every year, at least, every year that I've followed the Super Draft, which is a lot of years now, there's... five to seven guys in every college draft class that will become legitimate MLS contributors. And usually one to two of those guys, depending on the year will be star players. ah But like, like Christian rolled on is like ah the, the prime example of super draft pick that not only became an MLS player, but a superstar. Yeah.
01:42:27
Speaker
and MLS player, best 11 MLS player. So it does happen. You just have to, uh, just have to know where to look. And Seattle has been lucky enough that they get, they get the front row seat to all these UW guys. And so they just, they basically just draft the best player from UW every year. And it's worked out in the form of Christian rolled on and ah Kalani Costa Rienzi. So, but like, think about this, Ari, Andrew Thomas, our number one goalkeeper,
01:42:54
Speaker
College soccer player, right? okay yeah Alex Roldan, college soccer player. Kalani Kosarianzi, college soccer player. Jackson Reagan, college soccer player. I'm scrolling down. Christian Roldan, college soccer player.
01:43:11
Speaker
Danny Musabski. Danny Musabski. Legend. Legend. Paul Rothrock. Paul Rothrock.
01:43:23
Speaker
Like, what are we doing? What are we talking about? Half this goddamn team has a degree. Half of these teams have accounting degrees. Okay. Like, And guess what?
01:43:33
Speaker
I was just going through like all the the roster in my head thinking of like who played college soccer. And I was just laughing at the visual of new who playing D1. That would have been dude. i would know knew Who get new who on any team in Miami, like college, any college in Miami, like university of Miami go Canes.
01:43:54
Speaker
That would be fire. That would be fire. I want him there. Yeah, no, there is a, you're, uh, you're right. The super draft, you can still cook on there from time to time. It is, it is very hard to do. And that's why I wouldn't be one of the clubs that racks like 11 picks like the Colorado Rapids, but you know, they're doing their thing. They did, they did, ah one of the years they did that, they got they literally got Bombito and then sold him for $10 million. dollars so it's like yeah and it James bringing up great points here too like Getting reps in college is better than just sitting on the bench in MLS. Getting reps in college is equal, if not better, than playing in MLS Next Pro. I'm sorry. MLS Next Pro is not competitive. It's not.
College Soccer's Role in Development
01:44:36
Speaker
It is a league that is manufactured to be basically a secondary training ground. That's the truth. And I'm not saying that there isn't meaningful minutes to be had in NextPro, but I think that like the level of competition, um the amount of athleticism that you need to have to actually be an effective player in college soccer, because it is a very different style, it's more physical, it is about your body type,
01:45:00
Speaker
That is way different than next pro. So I think that's, why you want to know how Paul, Paul Rothrock developed all that expected dog. It's because he was grinding for Notre Dame and Georgetown for like three or four years. That, that changes a man that, that hardens a man's perspective on life. you think all that Dude, eating the eating on the meal plan, grinding it out, trying to study, go to class, do your things.
01:45:25
Speaker
When you've when you've been real grinder you've been through that and then also played for Toronto FC too for like multiple years, that has a way of ah bringing out that dog in you because you've you've seen things that you don't want to go back to.
01:45:40
Speaker
And that is a powerful motivator. It is. It is. Like no one wants to be at Notre Dame. I'm sorry. That's a terror that's a terrible place. You know, maybe if you're on like the football team or basketball team, maybe it's tight. Being on the soccer team, probably not as much clout.
01:45:56
Speaker
Shout out to the ah basketball coach, Micah Shrewsbury, my goat, former Penn State head coach, and also my boy. Shout out. All right. Do you want to hit this ah divisions report? Yeah, let's do it.
01:46:09
Speaker
Sick. Do you want me to pop it on the screen or you want to do it? You got it. You got it. Okay. Okay. Okay. okay Hold on. Let me... I only like... kind of tangentially read this today. So maybe you can give the, kind like we can read it together. i am not against pirating anything from the New York times as they are my former employer.
01:46:27
Speaker
Shout out to Tom, Tommy scoops, Tom, Tom, bo um Tom, Bo, Gussie. And Paul Tenario. i don't have a good one for for Polly primetime, Polly primetime and Tommy scoops out here dropping some leaked sources. MLS divisional revamp may split old rivalries and blend conferences. Can we also just take a minute?
01:46:53
Speaker
This was the best MLS ball ever. I think this season's ball was the best one ever. It was really good ball. yeah I really liked the ball this year. I'm interested to see what it is next year, but we already kind of know what's going to happen. Major League Soccer's new five division format is likely to include Midwest division that blends three teams from the Eastern reference con Eastern and Western conferences, but the revamp is also expected to split the two leagues, the longtime rivalries outside of their respective division. So there's going to be some shakeups chat.
01:47:22
Speaker
Um, Let's just get into what the divisions are because i I don't think that like exactly what these divisions are going to mean is understood yet. We just do know who's breaking into what starting with the Seattle Sounders group here. The Portland Timbers, Seattle Sounders, Vancouver Whitecaps, San Jose Earthquakes, Real Salt Lake and Colorado Rapids will be Group together in their own division alongside another division here. The LA galaxy, LA FC, San Diego, FC Austin, FC Houston, Dynamo and FC Dallas. So San Jose say goodbye, buddy. Welcome to the heritage cup. It is the only trophy you will be winning. You're not playing against your LA rivals. You're not considered a true California team anymore.
01:48:11
Speaker
You're part of the Pacific Northwest now. you didn't get Paul Rothrock. And you didn't get Paul Rothrock. I am interested. I wonder if that was a calculation at all. um But then we also have, this is the Midwest region, I believe. Yeah. So Chicago Fire, Minnesota United, St. Louis SC, Sporting Kansas City, FC Cincinnati, and Columbus Crew. Wow.
01:48:35
Speaker
is that it Is that tough? Like, I feel like that's a tough division. Like in terms of quality? Yeah. Like you've got the Chicago fire who obviously are the greatest of all of the ones. They're up and coming St. Louis and the wrestling enthusiasts are both pretty bad. But then other than that, it's pretty good teams. Yeah, exactly. And Chicago are going to win Cup next year. Mark it. I'm saying it now.
01:48:57
Speaker
Greg Ball, it's going to happen. um Then we have CF Montreal. You're a Chicago Fire guy. that's I am. I am. I like Greg Ball. CF Montreal, Toronto FC, New England Revolution, New York Red Bulls, NYCFC, and Philadelphia Union. This is the bot division.
01:49:11
Speaker
This is the goddamn bot division. If I could be in any division, I'd put myself there. CF Montreal isn't even operating a functioning football club. they're the They're such a mysterious entity. like i They don't exist. They're just out there. Yeah, they're they're doing their thing, speaking French, competing for the wooden spoon. Yeah. they they they I feel like potentially they just like are getting a bad translation of the rules and they're thinking that like scoring the least amount of points and making the worst roster decisions is actually good. And like winning the wooden spoon is like the best trophy in MLS. Yeah. I'm not sure, but Toronto's not far behind them. They have fallen so far from grace. And frankly, like, I don't know what they're doing. They're just like making the worst DP decisions of all time.
01:50:03
Speaker
um And then the revs and red bulls. Okay. Like made it to cup final, but everyone knew they were going to lose. NYC and Philly are the only good teams in that division. Yeah. And like Philly's not even that good. Like they don't even have a G kind of fraudulently good. Yeah. Yeah. They have famously, they have a creepy ass racist GM allegedly, allegedly.
01:50:28
Speaker
um And New York city FC, it's like, okay, you play a Yankee stadium. So, You know, can't really. How much credibility can you really have playing in the Mets outfield? Exactly. Yeah. Then we have DC United, Nashville, Atlanta United, Charlotte FC, Inter-Miami, and Orlando City. I'm going to call this the big spender division.
01:50:48
Speaker
This is the blank checks division. This is the open those checkbooks buddy. we're We're going out to eat division. United will continue their downfall. Unfortunately, in this whole situation, that's that sucks for them.
01:51:06
Speaker
Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, Inter-Miami, Orlando. They're all kind of good. That's actually, that division might be... That's kind of stacked. That might be tougher than that Midwest division. DC United is going to have a rough go there, unfortunately. Yeah. yeah They're really going to, well, who did they just sign? Who signed Ty Baribo? That was DC. DC. which so We can, ah I have takes on that.
01:51:29
Speaker
Yeah, we can, we can do that right after this, but DC United coverage, but yeah. Yeah. um But yeah, the league has discussed other potential groupings, including one that would keep four teams together ah in California and the Cascadia teams with the Texas teams. The league, however, is putting heavy consideration into equitable travel for all divisions where possible, which honestly, I'm fine with this setup. I don't want to go to Texas. I don't want to go to Texas in the summer. I don't want to go to Texas in the winter.
01:51:56
Speaker
Let them be anywhere else. um I'm sure we will still have to go and play all of them, but whatever. ah Under the new divisional format, teams would play division opponents twice, one home game and one away, and would play every other league opponent once, rotating whether that matchup is at home or on the road. So this is something that we talked about before when they go to the single table. um You play your divisional opponents twice and everyone else once. So you are playing every team.
01:52:25
Speaker
You're just going to play your divisional once, twice, which again, we're kind of talking about the balance of all of these divisions, there is very clearly some easier ones, uh, than, than others. So I'm interested to see how that all shakes out. Um, and then this is supposed to debut in the summer of 2027 when the calendar flip happens. Um, and, um,
01:52:51
Speaker
When the calendar flip, uh, when it flips the calendar and begins the first summer to spring season or whether to utilize the new divisional structure for the sprint season, which that's going to be the year that the Portland Timbers win another trophy. Um, they will run from February through May, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:53:07
Speaker
So, uh, We also got a little bit of note here that the league is weighing changes to its postseason format with multiple proposals being considered. One proposal runs similarly to Australian rules, football league finals with a higher C played qualifying games against each other, which gives those higher seeds a second game against lower seeds. If they lose the first match, that's no, that's we're not Australia we're America. We do American stuff. We're not doing that. That's I'm anti that.
01:53:34
Speaker
um I don't know how you feel, but yeah, qualifying games. That's woke. I'll have to, uh, yeah, I'll have to look into that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, this story is great. I'm going to leave the rest of it. Cause I, I don't want to like just audio the whole thing when you guys can go and read the athletic for yourself. But do you have any takes on the divisions?
01:53:57
Speaker
Um, yeah, I, uh, I, I like, I like the division idea. I think it adds a fun element and enhances, ah the rivalries that are already there and perhaps can create some new
MLS Divisional Format Changes
01:54:11
Speaker
rivalries. Like, you know, when I think about divisions in like baseball or the NFL, those division games carry you like a special significance for the rivalry component. But then also the way they, those leagues do it is for the divisional games are like tiebreakers and stuff, which adds an even, even bigger element to it. So I just kind of like the,
01:54:35
Speaker
division set up in general. I think it it adds significance to some of these games that might not otherwise be there. So I think it could be fun. What do you think? No, I love it. I think it's way more equitable and it's going to be awesome that we won't have to play LAFC twice a year.
01:54:51
Speaker
twice see you're like seven times a year. Yeah. Like that's the thing. It's like, we'll play Portland seven times a year again. And I'm fine with that. Sure. They can beat us like whatever. I don't care. But like,
01:55:03
Speaker
We're only gonna have to see LAFC once a year. We're only gonna, but, but we also get to see all the Eastern conference teams once a year. I'm just excited for the format change. The single table is like really exciting to me, ah because there are just so many shit teams.
01:55:18
Speaker
It is gonna be nice to be able to like have that balance out, uh, long-term and see like, is it gonna be forgiving or unforgiving for the sounders? Uh, it's gonna be, it's, it's a, all of it's a huge change. Genuinely. Yeah.
01:55:33
Speaker
That's my takes on it. That's pretty much my takes on it, uh, on it too. I don't need to actually read the athletic report, which I didn't do. So I'll get on that and formulate more takes, but I'm, I'm excited about the divisions and honestly, the calendar change in, in general.
01:55:50
Speaker
Uh, I know there's a lot of discourse about that, but the more I've thought about that, the more I think it's going to be a lot, a lot better. So I agree. Yeah. What did we, what else did we have? Oh, did you want to talk Wilfred Nancy getting sacked from? I wanted to do Baribo really quick. Let's do Baribo really quick. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, i didn't want to have like that in-depth to take on it, but ah yeah, DC United,
01:56:15
Speaker
Spent $4 million dollars right on, uh, to get Ty Buribo. And I was just looking at like the pundit analysis of that and DC United is getting praised for, ah you know, it's like, it might be an overpay, but you're getting an MLS proven striker who, you know what you're going to get. And, ah He's like relatively young, so he's probably going to be good for a few more years. So like five stars, great move, DC United. and I was just, I was just sitting there reading about it. Like, i I don't think, think this is another example of teams kind of prioritizing the wrong things. Like the way they're thinking about it is like, well,
01:56:58
Speaker
we need ah We need a striker who we know can get us 10 to 15 goals, and then that's going to raise our floor. But is that really going to raise your floor? was it Was a 10 to 15 goal striker what you needed to raise your floor? you had You had one of the best strikers in the league last year. One of the best number nines in the entire league, Christian Benteke, who honestly probably produced more goals for you last year than you're going to get in any individual season out of Barribo. Like your problem is you have like no midfield and no defense. So like, why are you focusing on the $4 million team?
01:57:34
Speaker
intraligue striker rather than like if I was the DC United GM, which I'm not like, I would take that, those resources and I would spend that like on like the best six I could find and bolstering the back line.
01:57:48
Speaker
That stuff is how you create the floor and then you go get the striker. Once you have the foundation set they got no foundation. They just got Ty Buribo, a pretty good to sometimes very good MLS striker. I just, i kind of felt like I was taking taking crazy pills with how much praise they got for that. I feel like that's not like a, that's sick of a move. Like, no it's it's not, it's the classic like East coast pundit.
01:58:12
Speaker
Like don't know. We're just going get a number nine and like, we'll be good. Like that's not how it works. Like, yes, it's a flashy signing and they're doing PR about it. And people are probably like, oh, this is such a great move. Because if you look at it, ah if you are devoid of all of the context of DC United, which I'm going to be honest with you, Ari, they're pretty fucking unwatchable. So all of the people who are talking about this move nationally, I'm going to be honest, they probably just didn't watch DC United. Because it's a rough watch. It's not a good team. mean, they've the spoon. It's a literal worst team you like. Yeah, like they're bad.
01:58:45
Speaker
And the part of the problem, it wasn't that they weren't scoring goals. Like, Benteke was scoring. It was that the team was just bad. And, and like, I don't understand. if If you look at it in a vacuum, right, if you're replacing Christian Benteke with Ty Buribo and ignoring the context of the rest of your team, yes, I think that's ah that's a good move.
01:59:13
Speaker
But the problem is there is context. The context is the rest of your team is shit. The rest of your team is bad. And so you're wasting $4 million dollars on a transfer fee for a guy who...
01:59:27
Speaker
could could do that. Maybe not. like I think Benteke was just like uniquely situated for a team that bad because he's scoring off every corner and every set piece because he's just massive and like really good.
01:59:42
Speaker
I don't think it's going to be that good of ah to transfer when it comes down to it. Exactly for the reasons that you're saying. We're like... Where's the support? Where's the support for Ty Buribo? Because in my knowledge, in my memory, when Ty Buribo was at his best, it was because he was being supported by a Philly team that was really good and really talented.
02:00:04
Speaker
And was really good defensively and just way more well-rounded. Like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he'll probably, like Ty Buribo will probably get his 15 to 20 goals, but then it's like, to what end? for Like, what did that what's that really going to get them?
02:00:17
Speaker
they and And, you know, they do have all of their DP spots open. So, like, sure, they could go and make big moves. But again, like, reworking your entire team in one offseason, dude, it doesn't mean that you're going to get better. Like, there is going to be a lot of growing pains for this DC United team.
02:00:35
Speaker
i Like, I don't expect them to make the playoffs, even if they make a bunch of big moves. It's just like... which I don't even, i don't know if that, like when you wouldn't spoon your, the, your goal for the next year is to get to like a baseline level of competence. So I don't know maybe type Rebo turns out to be like a foundational piece that helps them get there. I just, to to me, it's an example of the oversimplification simplification that we see with this stuff sometimes of like, Oh, if we get the number nine, that can bang 20 goals. Then that just will solve so many problems. Maybe in like a previous era of MLS,
02:01:10
Speaker
That was all it took. But that's just, that that's not how it works anymore. Like you got to have everything around your 15 20 goal number nine. Otherwise it's just not going to get you very far. um All right. Let's see.
02:01:24
Speaker
You have to play against Emmanuel Latte Loth for you know whatever. whatever like You have to play against whatever crazy DP Chicago's going to sign. Latte Loth, good example. Dan's bringing up what a what I was going to say, which is like teams like teams like this, they should go the... ah The, these are the teams that should going to Danny Musovsky route at, at the number nine bargain hunt that you can probably find these like USL guys that can get you like 10 to 15 ish goals. Don't have to spend any money on it. And then you can build like a real good, strong team. i I should be a GM man.
Dane St. Clair's Transfer Decision
02:02:05
Speaker
I swear, I swear I could build these teams better than some of these, some of these GMs, but it is, it is like, it's like, it feels like it's just a marketing move. And like the way they rolled it out too, it was just like, this is just such a marketing move. And we talk about how the Sounders work. And we talk about like, yeah, we would love a big signing.
02:02:23
Speaker
Dude, if we signed Ty Burribo, I'd be like, yeah, okay, sure. Like, yeah, that's tight. But also the Sounders have the baseline. Signing a player like Ty Burribo would be electric. It would be a good signing because he'd be playing with Jesus Ferreira and Pedro de la Vega and Paul Rothrock. And I'm assuming you would get rid of Morris to sign Ty Burribo. I don't know what their deal is, but whatever. Let's say you had Morris. Let's say you had, you know, ah Albert Rusnak and then you have an incredible back line. ah ah And it's like, yeah. Yeah, like cool, man. Think about when they signed Diaz. The team was actually not...
02:02:58
Speaker
that good at the time that they signed Rui Diaz because they were kind of in an XG merchanting type situation. But like, like we were saying, like they had the baseline, they had the foundation. So when you plugged in the really good number nine, it like shot it to the next level. That's like more how you do it. So i don't know. We'll see. We'll see how that, ah that take ages. Maybe DC United are going to look like geniuses and Ty Baribo is going to win the golden boot in lead them to MLS cup glory, but I have my doubts. Uh, let's talk, uh, let's talk Willie Nancy. What's going on with our boy. Uh, well, I can, I can, while you pull this up, I can fill the people in on how Wilfred, we want to talk about Wilfred Nancy's, uh, how it, how his tenure at Celtic has started because it's been notably bad.
02:03:42
Speaker
And, It's kind of funny because I will tell you what how I found this out, which was i i saw I saw a tweet from a Celtic fan, and this was after Wilford Nancy's second game in charge, which he lost both of his first two, and it was a Celtic fan account, and he was literally talking about, we must sack the Celtics.
02:04:03
Speaker
Wilford Nancy. And I was like, that's gotta be a bit like, that's gotta be a fan doing a bit of, Oh, it's been two games. Let's sack the manager already. Cause it hasn't started off super well or whatever. I click on the tweet. Like, no, like this guy laid out a 4k word case point by point breakdown on why Wilford Nancy must be fired. Literally two games in his tenure. Like the guy had literally, he hadn't even lost the, whatever cup he ended up losing yet. And then after,
02:04:32
Speaker
They were already calling for his firing. He loses a cup, whatever Scottish cup that was, to a bottom of the table. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what that Not to be confused with League's Cup. League Cup. He lost a League Cup to some other Scottish team. That's really not good. And basically, like, no, what he's going to get sacked, like, soon.
02:04:52
Speaker
So here's the post... from FOT mob Wilfred Nancy already recorded the worst start of any manager in Celtic history by losing his first three games in charge.
02:05:03
Speaker
Now he's lost a fourth today. Dundee United law, St. Murren, Celtic, or Roma, hearts. Hearts is at the top of the league. So, okay, that's fine. That's mainly because Celtic and Rangers are kind of asked this year.
02:05:18
Speaker
Roma, not a great not a great team. It was something like St. Mirren hadn't... Celtic hadn't lost them in like 42 matches. Like, that's crazy. And the same with Dundee was like 30 matches or something. So this is a guy who...
02:05:35
Speaker
And they were leading this game. They were leading this last game 1-0 in the 40th minute and gave up the lead and lost. It's crazy. I've been watching the games because I'm a sicko and low-key kind of preying on the downfall of Willie Nance. Not in like a not in like a bad way,
02:05:53
Speaker
Just in like a... It's like ah it's like ah when you can't look away from a car crash type of thing. Exactly. Exactly. ah And it's just like, it's it's kind of crazy. Like, this this is not good soccer.
02:06:09
Speaker
Like, they don't play good footy. In Scotland, like I was watching this game. You've been beefing with the entire country of Scotland on Twitter because you clowned on their league. is that Is that correct? That is correct. They all think that MLS is bad. And I'm like, brother, I promise you that you give me a middle of the table Scottish Premiership team. I'll play. You go play the Chicago Fire, brother, you're losing.
02:06:35
Speaker
There is no way. If it doesn't be United any day of the week, I'm telling you we're owning them. There's no way you can tell me the Scottish Prem is better than MLS at this point. No, no. Get out of here, Scotland.
02:06:48
Speaker
People are using Wilfred Nancy's like... failure as like a ah whole thing to say. know Let's talk about that. Yeah. MLS is actually bad because Wilfred Nancy can't kick it in this league. Brother, I'm watching the games. How the fuck can these players and teams, they can't press for 90 minutes. It's like they've never ran in their entire life ever. Zero, zero, like zero, like endurance. Paul Rothrock would be...
02:07:18
Speaker
elite in this league. He would be like the best ball winning player you've ever seen in your life just because he was running. I mean, it is like, it is like old man soccer. Like it's not, it's not interesting and it's bad. And like, I kind of feel bad for Wilford Nancy. He had a 10 times more dynamic team with the Columbus crew than this Celtic roster. It's wild. It's wild.
02:07:43
Speaker
I just think it's so funny you know, these things work, you like like the coaching tenures work in Europe where you got fans talking about sacking him two games in. Like, I'm looking at these Celtic fans talking about Wilford Nancy and, yeah, like how it proves that MLS is shit. He's been there for – he'd been there for like a day and a half. Yes. like yeah How is he – what impact do you really think he has in this short amount of a time, positive or negative? Like, I don't – you can't attribute, I don't think much to a coach in their first like half a season, frankly, especially cause he's coming in, in the middle of everything.
02:08:27
Speaker
how do you How do you get to a place where you're blaming the coach that much? One or two games into the... like That has to be the fault of whoever gave him whatever players he has if they're that bad. He's been there for two games.
02:08:40
Speaker
Yeah, it is funny. Someone... you know I think this is funny to know too. Celtic lose four games in a row for the first time since January of 1978. That's unlucky, I guess. ah But yeah, like...
02:08:53
Speaker
On one hand, I'm sitting here like someone someone commented this to me. They're like, the only difference, you know the big difference with managing in Europe is the expectations and the pressure and you know like you need to get in there and have results immediately.
02:09:07
Speaker
Okay. um I'm just going to be honest with you. It's your loss if you walk away from Wilfred Nancy at this point. Like if the pressure is so much where you're like, here's a dog shit roster.
02:09:21
Speaker
Here's a dog shit roster where like everyone's already injured and we're going to implement a completely new tactic system because Wilfred Nancy is known for, you know, a very specific way of playing.
02:09:33
Speaker
And none of you were able to to do it because you can't fucking run. I don't know what to tell you. Like, it's it's kind of not his fault. It's kind of like they're in a really shitty situation.
02:09:46
Speaker
Like, they he kind of got thrown into the lion's den. And it he's definitely going to get fired. Set up to fail. Set up to fail. He's definitely going get fired. And he's definitely going to go back to the Columbus crew, which I think is really funny. He should, he should get fired and go back to the crew before the start of the next season. yes That would be the all time bit.
02:10:05
Speaker
That would be like the best bit ever. But like, I think what it goes to show is that for me, like it gives me two things. The Scottish Premiership is silly.
02:10:17
Speaker
It's a silly league. You have two teams that are important. The rest of the league doesn't matter. And those two teams aren't even competitive in Europe. And yet you have the highest of standards. You have equal standards as the Premier League.
02:10:32
Speaker
and you don't have the budget, can I tell you something, Ari? Can you guess what the gap in like wages are? The average wage for a player playing in the Scottish Premiership versus a player playing in MLS. Can you guess the gap there?
02:10:52
Speaker
ah So the average MLS player makes like $100? something third This is average. So it's all the salaries and then divided by the number of players. So not necessarily the mean or whatever. You know what i mean?
02:11:07
Speaker
So not player average, but like team average? General average. Like, yeah. So like a $20 million dollars MLS roster is the average in the Scottish. of The Scottish Premiership, I would have assumed is like way higher than than that.
02:11:25
Speaker
The average um MLS, it's it's basically double. The average um MLS salary is basically double that of the Scottish Premiership. And that's what I'm saying. It's a tin pot league that is falling apart and is gifted a charity spot in Europe literally just based on where it is.
02:11:41
Speaker
I'm telling you, if you put the Chicago Fire, the roster they have now, the coach they have now, if you put the Chicago Fire in this league... They're finishing top five. I promise you that maybe they don't. it great Greg's probably winning the Scottish prem. like I'm telling you this. And so it's not at on Nancy.
02:12:00
Speaker
I can't like, I just can't put it on Nancy. I can't as much as I want to. And as much as much as I'm here, like making fun of him, especially on our social media platforms, because it is a good bit because he did. Our short are short with with the press conference picked up another 10 K views over the weekend. Yeah.
02:12:18
Speaker
Like it's, it's just like, it's a joke of a league. It genuinely is. You've taken up this cause. You've been beefing with the Scottish bots, which I didn't even know that that was a, ah that that was a prominent community, but they, looks like they came after you. You're proud of it.
02:12:33
Speaker
I pulled up Twitter just to see what was going on with that. And you were, you were deep in the Scottish trenches. So yeah, no more power to you. Keep the, keep up the anti-Scottish prim crusade.
02:12:45
Speaker
i mean, my impression of it was always like, it was just one of those leagues where there's two teams, It's like, is it that that different than the Bundesliga in that respect? Like, obviously, the rest of the teams in the Bundesliga are a way better than the ah Scottish Prem. But like in terms of having only two teams that ever have a chance in a given year, that's it's basically...
02:13:07
Speaker
Like that, except the rest of the teams are even less relevant. I think it's, it's like the fact that also the top teams are just not relevant in Europe. Like at least in the Bundesliga, the top teams in the Bundesliga are relevant in the European competitions.
02:13:24
Speaker
what The rangers Rangers are not winning a Champions League. They're not even winning a Europa League. they're not like this' just It's just not happening. Shout out Ryan Kent. Shout out Ryan Kent. Shout out Ryan Kent. Shout out Rangers. But that's the thing. This is something that I was bringing up too. I was like, already a guy who lit it up in the Scottish premiership. He had like 17 goals in like eight assists or like nine assists or something. Like he had, double or he had like double digit goals and assists. Like he was, he had a fucking great season in 2020 when he played there. And you think he played there in 2021, whatever.
02:13:59
Speaker
he couldn't even cut it in MLS, man. Like, that's not true. He could, he just never played because he was always hurt. Okay. But like he, he rode the bench even when he was fit and like, whatever, what I'm saying is he was a depth piece on an MLS roster when he was starting every single game for the best team in Scotland. He at the time, I don't know that is, it is tough, man. Cause still remember what a couple of those games looked like. And he looked like the best player on the team. yeah,
02:14:27
Speaker
But that doesn't, i mean, that doesn't really, he played for Rangers, so it doesn't change the the principle of it. Like they, but now you have a situation where Celtic is just cratering and Wilford Nancy is going to take the fall for it, which is not necessarily the. They were cratering before to to be fair. like Yeah, exactly though. That's the thing. It's like, I don't know how you blame that on a coach after even, even with the, he's like six games in at this point, that's still too early.
02:14:54
Speaker
I just think they should ride it out for the season. Let him make some transfers. Let him move some things around. Let him like make the guys run. It's just, it's bad. It's bad. you everyone should go and watch that Dundee United match. It was like Minnesota United on crack.
02:15:12
Speaker
It was fucking awful. I admire you for watching as much Scottish Prem as you've been watching. I'm not going to watch Scottish Prem, but I respect your constitutional right. I watch it on the illicit sites because I'm not paying for whatever platform the Scottish Premiership is streamed on. But it is... It's like...
02:15:32
Speaker
It's an interesting watch. i amm tracking I'm tracking the downfall of Wilfred Nancy. I'm tracking the downfall of Celtic, which is sad because I do like Celtic as a club. If I had to pick a Scottish Premiership club, which I will not be doing, it would be Celtic. um So i don't I don't really know.
02:15:49
Speaker
um Did you want to revel in some Dane St. Clair before we get out of here? Oh my God, Ari. I would love to talk about Dane St. Clair. Let's do it. Let's do it. Minnesota United fans.
02:16:03
Speaker
we know you We know you still watch. We know you still watch. We know there's a few of you out there still watching. Where's your boy? Where did he go? Where'd he go? Where's he at, bro? Where's your girl?
02:16:15
Speaker
You're the like, I thought, I thought you were building the statue of him outside of Allianz after you got a round one best of three series win in the playoffs. That's interesting that you would say that Ari, it's interesting that you would say that, uh, you know, Dane St. Clair has a statue because, uh, it is funny. We should, we should, we should, um, start this off by saying Dane St. Clair has been transferred. Um,
02:16:39
Speaker
ah By way of free agency, because he couldn't come to a contract deal with Minnesota. He went to the champions, inter-Miami, turning down what was a million-dollar-plus offer, making him one of the highest-paid goalkeepers in MLS,
02:17:01
Speaker
in Minnesota. He didn't want to be in Minnesota so bad that he took a pay cut. He left so much money on the table to go play for Inter Miami. Not only did they try and pay him,
02:17:17
Speaker
They literally changed a street. They literally changed the name of a street in Minneapolis or wherever, St. Paul. Is that real? claire This is real.
02:17:28
Speaker
Why did they do that? This is real. Guess this. This happened on November 23rd. This was the contract negotiations. It was before or during? This was before. This was during mls the MLS run, November What?
02:17:47
Speaker
that Wow. I did not know that they that they did that. Yeah. well So I think that's just even better. The fact that, oh, build a statue, build a statue.
02:17:59
Speaker
You did. What happened? Leaving the club with zero trophies. Zero. I was i was reading his like goodbye statement, and i did i did get a little bit of enjoyment of the part where he was like, well, even though we didn't ever ever win a trophy together, there were still some great times. It's like, yeah, yeah, you didn't.
02:18:19
Speaker
You didn't, Rick Ramsey. You didn't win. shot You thought you could gimmick your way to it? no. no You know why they offered that much money to ah Dane St. Clair? It's because they have it in their minds that that's the only way that Ramsey ball is ever going to work in a tournament is if you have a demon in goal like that. Well, guess what?
02:18:37
Speaker
You don't have him anymore. He's going to, to ah messy and no longer Barca boys to be a demon down there for way less money. And what's Minnesota United? That's like their whole identity was like,
02:18:52
Speaker
Dane St. Clair trolling. That was like their whole team. That's why they offered him over a million dollars. so It's got to feel so bad as a club to be so undesirable that even like your club legend, your hero, your fan favorite, ah he doesn't like you.
02:19:11
Speaker
He doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about the city. He's just like, yeah, I don't care about the money and I sure don't want to live here anymore. I'm going go to Miami.
02:19:22
Speaker
I'm going to go to Miami. I don't know how many of you have ever been to Miami before.
02:19:27
Speaker
It's not the best place. it's not the It's not the worst, but it's not the best. Well, if you think about why he's going there. Yeah, but it's just like, it's so funny because Minnesota is like so undesirable. And like all of these fans were were chirping and hooting and hollering and thinking like, your brother, your Super Bowl was beating the Seattle Sounders in penalty kicks after losing two games.
02:19:51
Speaker
out of the three games. Well, I don't, I don't think that the, who whoever they replace him with is not going to be as good at penalties as Dane St. Clair. So I, I just, the hopefully I'm hoping that Rick, Rick Ramsey used this as some motivation It's like, you know, what's funny is I was reading an interview that, uh, C bomb Charlie bomb did with him during the playoffs.
02:20:13
Speaker
And he was basically like explaining Ramsey ball and why he does the things that he does to our sport. He hates soccer. Yeah. Well, he was basically like, i do, he said what we all kind of knew, which is like, I do this out of necessity because, ah you know, I'm working with what I have and this is the best way to maximize our chances of winning. And that's what I'm trying to do is win. So if that, if it, if I have to be pragmatic, that's the word he kept using. If I have to be pragmatic about it,
02:20:43
Speaker
to get to that end. That's what I'm going to do. And, you know, I read that and I was like, you know, I, that is kind of what I would expect him to say. But when you say that, are you kind of implicitly also saying like, I don't believe in my own team. I don't think my players are good enough to like play on the merits. And so I am going to make them play this way yeah because of that. yeah And it's like,
02:21:08
Speaker
wouldn't I almost have to credit him for getting the level of buy-in he did from the players while also basically simultaneously telling them that he doesn't think they're good. Yeah.
02:21:18
Speaker
He was literally saying like, I have a shit roster. We don't have anyone good. We're kind of like paraphrasing that and putting words into his mouth, but like not really. That is what he's saying. That is what he's saying. He's saying that like, if I had better players that I could play differently with, I would, but I don't. So I'm not going to. Like, that's kind of, I think that's,
02:21:38
Speaker
I don't know. He was just saying it so casually. I was like, bro, that's kind of messed up to say about your own players, but far be it for me, I guess. Hey, bro, you know, good for you, but maybe that's what happens. You know, you don't get Dane Sinclair. I wanted to just listen. You know, I love, you know, I love a shot in Freida. So let's read it. Let's, let's read this one ah ah right here. ah Feeling very strange.
02:21:59
Speaker
about the St. Clair joining Inter-Miami. The club put in an extremely good offer to where he was going to be one of the top hit keepers in MLS, rejected it. Miami swooped in, paid less, and yet he joins them, not trying to make assumptions, but kind of odd.
02:22:17
Speaker
my god It's kind of odd. It's an inner Miami conspiracy. it's a new It's a new conspiracy. It's just so great, man. It's so great to see some loons tears because holy shit, they were the most insufferable fan base. we yeah We've made a lot of enemies. We made a lot of enemies in the playoffs and over the offseason. We got enemies in Minnesota. and We got enemies in Miami. yeah I wasn't setting out to make enemies. We got a few now. It's fine. It's it's not what i I meant to do, but it is really funny.
02:22:45
Speaker
And like, I'm going to make fun of you. Like if you sat there in my mentions for the last eight months talking shit, brother, you, no one wants to play for you.
02:22:57
Speaker
You didn't win anything. You've never won anything. Are you ever going to win anything? I don't know. i We say all this and I can, I can say all this and also acknowledge that their team did turn us into Atlanta United. We, you killed. Correct. Correct.
02:23:13
Speaker
Correct. Congratulations on that one. like You got us on that. No, it's like it's literally the dude popping the champagne from like the fifth place yeah trophy. like He's like, yeah, and then it zooms out. It's like, brother...
02:23:29
Speaker
you're still Minnesota United. You still got to be Minnesota United. That's like, that's tough. that's sad The fact that like someone, i think hunched that it's like their Roth rock situation. This was kind of their Roth rock situation, like heart and soul of their team, which for them, it's their goalkeeper. But it was a similar, it was a similar, like if they lose him, the vibes would be horrendous for the off season to the point where they offered him over a million dollar bag, which for a goalkeeper is kind isn't that kind of insane? It's insane for this league for sure. Yeah. Have you ever like Roman Berkey maybe was making that? Who else is making that?
02:24:05
Speaker
Maybe, maybe Lloris. I don't know. I don't even think so. Yeah. I don't know. It's just, it's odd. It's like, it is really funny. And too, like Minnesota players like, well, i can't blame him because he wanted a new challenge. He wanted to go somewhere where, you know, he he could have a new challenge. The new challenge is actually like competing for trophies.
02:24:23
Speaker
So like, that's, you know, like i like that's crazy. Yeah. And from the inter Miami side of it, I think, I kind of tend to agree with your take that Dan St. Clair is a little overrated in terms of like how credtib how good of a goalkeeper he actually is, but he is better than Bustari or whatever that guy's name was. Bustari is gone though. They had the the yellow. hes not thoughs Bustari is under contract. No, no, but they like benched him for the young guy who. For Rocco Rios s Novo, who is, his loan is over. So. Okay, that's why. Dane St. Clair, Dane St. Clair is an upgrade over either one of those guys. hope they play Ustari. Like how fucking funny would that be? How funny would that be?
02:25:06
Speaker
It's just, it's, I think, even if I do think he's a little overrated, I think he is. good enough that it this it makes Inter-Miami better because they have a credible MLS starter at least where I don't think Ustari was a credible MLS starter when when he was playing for them last year. And Rocco Rios Novo did fine. They won MLS Cup with him. I thought he played really well in of years. He played well, but it's Rocco Rios Novo at the end of the day. you're We're not talking about like ah generational talent. Sure. We're not talking about Dane St. Clair here. Yeah, we're not talking about Dane St. Clair, potential Canadian International World Cup starter.
02:25:42
Speaker
It's just silly, man. It's just silly. And best of luck to Dane St. Clair on his new adventures. um he It is kind of the perfect team for him, though, like being a villain.
02:25:53
Speaker
Yeah. absolutely like he's being v It's the perfect, he's just joining the dark side. I thought he was like, he was a, uh, I know it got, it got heated at certain junctures, but I thought he was a pretty fun villain during that series. like I like, I enjoyed hating him. Like, yes, he's yes. He, he, he plays his role really well. Yeah. And, uh,
02:26:12
Speaker
I love... ah And he's genuinely funny. like Yes. no I love the goalkeeper. The shit talking during the penalty kick shootout, picking up when he was moving it off the penalty spot was that incredible. Yeah, that worked. Going up to the ref and being like, if they miss this, they lose, right? That's funny.
02:26:29
Speaker
Yeah. like I can admit that's funny. Yeah, like that's good. That's good bit. He's a bitsman and I think that he's going to fit in well. How long until like Messi crashes out on him though? That's that's my only.
02:26:42
Speaker
He's going to like annoy the shit out Messi. he He strikes me as the guy that like annoys his own teammates. Yeah, a little bit like you have to be a little bit insane to be a goalkeeper anyway.
02:26:57
Speaker
to be that level of like, um, like for lack of better word, like a clown, you know, a little bit of a like jester type goalkeeper.
02:27:08
Speaker
Yeah. You gotta be, you gotta be extra and insane. At least to be, at least but to be a great penalty goalkeeper, you need to have that, which is, this is what I like about Andrew Thomas. He has that. And he's actually a really good goalkeeper.
02:27:19
Speaker
Yeah. Like outside of that. Whereas Dane St. Clair, I'm not so sure you can say that. Yeah. We did put like seven goals past him. So like, I don't really know what to say. And, and I'm going to be honest, like Miami's defense hasn't gotten any better. So I don't, I don't know what, i think it has. Sadly, it was better in the playoffs. It did get better in the playoffs, but I mean like they haven't like made personnel wise. Yeah. Yeah.
02:27:41
Speaker
I can imagine they'll- We'll see if they can sustain that because the one disturbing thing watching all their playoff games like I did was like, damn, they actually defend not only competently, but like pretty well.
02:27:53
Speaker
That's not good. Their whole bit was that they don't do that and you could theoretically beat them in any game because of that. And now it's like, oh, now they do now they play defense too. got Messi creating goals like he's freaking Jesus Ferrer or Paul Rothrock counter pressing and shit. It's not, yeah they better not. they Stop that.
02:28:11
Speaker
Stop that. Cut it cut it out. Not allowed. We're done. We're done with that. ah Did you have a Weeby tweet or or are we... Nah, fuck it. Fuck Weeby. Yeah, we're at two and a half hours. Let's call it for the night. We're going chalk it right there, chat. Thank you all, as always, for tuning in. i didn't miss any super chats, did I? Let me check this real quick.
Wrapping Up and Promotions
02:28:32
Speaker
ah Nope. Oh. No, no, we're good. We're all good. We're all good. Thank you all for tuning in. Appreciate you all viewing the off season content. We're going to keep, I think this is going to be the show for this week, but then next week we should be back on normal schedule. Hopefully we'll have more off season news to give you guys.
02:28:55
Speaker
Please like the video. Like, comment, subscribe, rate five stars. Buy the Lobbing Scorchers hot sauce when the new batch is made. ah Like the video. Did I say that? Christmas gift. Christmas is happening. LobbingScorchers.com slash kit.
02:29:11
Speaker
All of the Sounders kits are literally on sale right now too. So if you wanted to get something, I think if you order today, tomorrow and the next hour, like before the 20th, it should get there before Christmas. So get your Paul Rothrock kits, get them now, get them, get them, get them, get them.
02:29:26
Speaker
Lobbingsportures.com slash kit. We, it comes directly from MLS, but we get a commission off of it. So do that. Good plug. ah All right. Thank you all for tuning in.
02:29:39
Speaker
I will catch you all on Monday for kickoff. Follow me on blue sky though. If we do do a show between now and then I'll let you all know. And until then we out. Love y'all.
02:29:49
Speaker
Peace.