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Web3 Marketing Strategies, Building Community & Validating Your Product | Kelsey McGuire | WT3 006
15 Plays11 months ago
Marketing isn't just about spreading the word – it's about weaving a story that resonates." Join us for the sixth episode of What The 3, the no-bs podcast for emerging tech startups
In this episode, we sit down with Kelsey McGuire who brings her rich experience from being an ex-CMO at Coinfund to leading growth initiatives at Shardeum. She dives into the transformative power of community-centric marketing strategies and the critical role they play in go-to-market success.
She also shares actionable advice on building scalable marketing frameworks that adapt to evolving market demands and highlights customer feedback's importance in shaping marketing strategies and overall business direction. Whether you're a startup founder looking to carve out your niche in the competitive Web3 arena or a seasoned marketer aiming to deepen community ties, this episode offers a treasure trove of practical insights.
Throughout the episode, Kelsey offers invaluable insights into aligning product messaging with market needs, utilizing analytics to refine marketing approaches, and the importance of customer feedback in iterating and evolving marketing strategies. She also outlines her top five 'Startup Desert Island' essentials for any founder or marketer entering the Web3 space. This episode is packed with unfiltered wisdom and actionable advice that will help you harness the full potential of your marketing efforts.
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
oh Welcome to this new episode of What The Three Podcast, the podcast where we tell you what you actually have to do. Today, we're talking to Elsie McGuire about go-to-market strategies, validating your products, and devising effective go-to-market strategies to maximize your startup's potential. I'm actually really excited for this episode because Liam and I have been working together for a while. Kelsey and I met working on into another project and you you cover my most favorite people in the space to talk marketing with and understand what's going on in market landscape. So I'm very, very excited. um I'll give you a bit of an introduction into Kelsey, as you already probably know, Liam and myself after episode one. Yeah. So welcome, Kelsey. Thank you so much.
Meet Kelsey McGuire
00:00:50
Speaker
Hello. Chief Growth Officer at Shardium and Web3 Visionary with a background in marketing at Consensus and Coin Funds. Kelsey has a proven track record in growing teams and building communities. At Shardium, she's leading the charge in expanding the company's reach and refining its strategy. Known for her community-centric approach, Kelsey is driving Shardium's growth, leveraging its innovative technology and talented team. Welcome to this podcast where we're going to explore with Kelsey her insights on growth strategies and the future of decentralization in the Web3 ecosystem.
Career Journey into Web3
00:01:26
Speaker
I mean, we've had a few conversations. I know last time we met in ECC, we had about 40 minutes penned into the diary, ended up talking for about two and a half hours. Yeah. So but I mean, I think the most interesting thing is like, where did you get started? You've you've obviously had a stellar career. Like, how did this journey kick off for you?
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. And thank you both so much for having me on today. It's been an interesting journey. you know I worked in more traditional marketing and brand-related fields and did some consulting before, kind of getting a little bit more interested in Web3. And part of that journey was I'm based here and in New York City. so In probably 2017, some of my friends who worked in banking started getting nervous about something called blockchain technology. So when the bankers start getting nervous, I start getting a little more intrigued, learned a little bit about it on a superficial level. And then it was one of those
00:02:26
Speaker
sort of serendipitous moments where I was at an event downtown in Soho for some sort of fashion industry party that I was working with and met someone who worked at Consensus. And she told me a little bit more about the type of work that they were doing over there and and Ethereum as well. And I gave myself a crash course and decided to just really dive in and and make this my career if I occurred. And I was super fortunate that everything went well and I was able to kick off my time as a full-time Web3 marketer and community person at Consensus in 2018. What was it specifically that really made you think, I need to transition into Web3? And then also, what sort of challenges did that that sort of bring to you with it being such a new sort of nascent space?
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think specifically I thought that there was a lot of unique potential with the technology. Honestly, at this point, some of the narratives that drew me in, I feel like haven't quite come to fruition in the way that I initially expected around this like beautiful like financial accessibility for the world and almost these like sort amazing lofty
Web3 Marketing Challenges
00:03:41
Speaker
ideals. I think part of that is still here, but that was definitely the bulk of what sort of drew me in was this sort of financial accessibility narrative. um
00:03:50
Speaker
really gaining, helping people around the world gain a little bit more of the ability to tap into this global financial system. um But it's been an interesting journey seeing how that evolved. And some of the challenges are like, okay, if those were some of the original narratives that were onboarding people into Web3, what are we looking at now in terms of how that can evolve and how to make sure that we're building something that feels like globally relevant without getting pigeonholed into a social impact corner, which unfortunately I've seen projects get stuck in and and start to wither.
00:04:26
Speaker
You talk about the fact that you're based in New York. um In terms of marketing, obviously this isn't the the episode where we're going to be talking legal, but I think there's an element of it when you're marketing a web3 products, you've got to be understanding of what you can and can't say, especially in America and especially in the States like New York. You've had obviously Coinbase, we've now got Uniswap coming under um the purview of the SEC. How much does that sort of affect you when you're looking to market projects? I think that it has a huge impact. But even though those specific things were not happening when I started in Web3 in 2018, the same ideas around how to market Web3 projects still stand. And those initial ideas that we really stuck with at Consensus and then all the projects I've worked with since are, do not speculate on prices.
00:05:21
Speaker
do not make these kind of false promises that you can't substantiate and don't try to over-hype things. And I know that those two last ones really connect in together, but I've seen a lot of patterns where it is not necessarily even a bad actor, but there's they have so much enthusiasm around what they're doing. So they want to talk about it and, oh, this of course is going to go to the moon and we cannot wait to release it. But really, you have to be so mindful and so careful about being able to back up exactly what you're saying and not getting into a sort of starting to drone in this pattern of price speculation um when it comes to your marketing. That also really doesn't tend to build those sort of sustainable communities that you're after for long-term success of a Web3 project. So really, those core tenets have served us really well over over the years. and
00:06:17
Speaker
projects that haven't really kept that in mind, I've seen really face those challenges. That's not to say that projects who are doing everything right, at least from external perspective, will not come under fire from the SEC here in the United States. But I do think that all of these things as an industry are things that we should be extremely mindful of and do our best. um And I really have a kind of buttoned up legal perspective. I will get you into the whole regulatory environment, but I really do think that like they can be very healthy guardrails, or at least that's how I see it. When it's working well, regulation are those guardrails along that curvy road so you can go a little faster and feel a little safer, but unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way in practice.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah, and I won't go too too spicy here, because I think ultimately what you're saying is what a lot of people at Brand Armstrong and Hayden from Uniswap are saying in that we're just trying to do work within the guidelines that we've got, and we need more. um And I'm not putting these words in your mouth, but I would sort of say that we do need more. We need more clarity. And we need more clarity, not just from a legal perspective, but for people like yourselves that are wanting to mark about market products and say the right things and need to know what they're going to say. Let's move on to what you were talking about just then in terms of community. You were talking about building communities and that's something that you're extremely good at. Can you tell us a little bit about what sort of strategies you're employing at Shardium and how you're best seeing the best ways to kind of engage growth in communities in Web3?
Community Building Strategies
00:07:46
Speaker
Absolutely. So at Chardonnay, we're really fortunate to have an incredible team on the ground, um especially in India. So one of the core pieces here is our proof of community series. So I never discount the impact of in-person meetups. And we think, I think sometimes folks, especially outside of the industry who are just getting started, and really picture all of us just behind our computers all the time with limited interest potentially in interacting with others. I know it's a little bit of a stereotype.
00:08:19
Speaker
But that's what really, you know, when you think about a bunch of tech workers or developers or builders, there's that image, maybe it's a darkened room, everyone's just typing away. And really, if you want to build those communities, of course, there's a strong online aspect to it, but these relationships are really formed and solidified in person. So I'd say then the first thing, especially at Chardi and proof of community, thinking through a meetup series, being strategic about it, understanding really what these different regional audiences want and need, and really always seeking to add value when it comes to that. And by that, I mean you're not trapping people in a room, feeding them snacks, and then pitching yourself to them over and over again.
00:09:02
Speaker
you're really trying to figure out what they want to know and how to sort of onboard them to the greater Web3 ecosystem. I feel like that approach really benefits Web3 overall and really that does come back to you and we've seen that. um Second is establishing like a very strong online channel that is managed. so We really focus on Discord and we have some very talented folks at Shardium that manage that on a daily basis and we have over 560,000 people on there engaging. um I think a big challenge there that the founders really should keep in mind is you have to lay out the intention of your online community and really think through it carefully ahead of time because or else and you could easily convert that into a help desk.
00:09:50
Speaker
And there's an element to, of course, wanting to answer questions. But really, when we're looking at Web3 projects and most startups overall in other industries, we have finite resources. So you probably aren't going to be able to staff 50 people just to make sure every single question is answered. So it's really laying out a clear strategy and clear expectations to the community around understanding what provides value to them and how you're answering enough questions that people feel like they can move forward. And that can take the form of, you know, batching different questions, um making sure you're maintaining a great FAQ. So the questions that are coming up again can be just answered proactively and kind of taking it from there. um So those are our key sort of community um oriented moments, of course, I think social channels, you can't discount
00:10:39
Speaker
Twitter, X, you know, um as well as video formats like YouTube. I mean, we're recording a video right now. Those are super impactful when it comes to sort of adding a little bit more to the community to sort of enrich it. But you do have to have that place where people are coming together both in person and on some sort of online format or tool that makes sense for the people that you're working with. You talked before about just in general web3 marketing and some of the mistakes that people make. What are some of the mistakes, if you can, you see people making well-intentioned around trying to grow communities?
00:11:19
Speaker
Yes, I think the number one mistake I see is not setting correct expectations. um And this is such a fake one and I've worked with projects and we've all fallen prey to it at times. And it's a little bit like what I mentioned earlier where You're building something and you're so in it and you know that there's going to be a new feature. There's a big release kind of around the corner. So you want to talk about it right away. You want to say, look, this is coming. Join us. Sign up here. Do this, do that. But a lot of times those projects fail within to set an accurate timeline.
00:11:57
Speaker
And the amount of momentum that you can lose and trust that is eroded when you don't do that is highly detrimental. And really it can come from a very good place. It's a great intention. You want to share these exciting things with the community, but you really have to be mindful of consistently building momentum in a way that is realistic with your timelines because there's only but so much sort of wiggle room that you'll get from your community before they start feeling like they're being deceived, even if that's not your attention at all.
00:12:32
Speaker
I remember ah last cycle, it was pretty much a given, probably a cycle before, for fair projects to be delayed and roadmaps to not to hit the targets. do you think Is that something that's just not acceptable anymore given the competition across how many blockchains we now have? I think to your degree, it isn't acceptable. um I think that with the level of competition, that you have to think about things much more ahead of time. And that by that, I mean your roadmap might slip, but it's not something that should be, here's our entire roadmap communicated to the community, published externally, and then you're slipping. It should be, we're slipping a little internally. That is normal and will happen.
00:13:17
Speaker
but you're not having your big announcement cycles. You're not sharing all of that until you're a little further along, until you're a little bit more locked in with your timeline. There's still some forgiveness there, but I think that setting a aggressively incorrect timeline has too much yeah I think it's because projects and founders, you want to get ahead a little bit as well and kind of keep up that that momentum, but really the the negative impact that it has far outweighs, I think, the any sort of positive little bumps that you'll get when you're looking at your KPIs. So you're saying in terms of the messaging, be more granular on the things that you know are locked in and be a bit more kind of looser, give sort of ballpark timeframes in terms of messaging for the bigger ideas.
00:14:03
Speaker
Exactly. That seems to strike the best possible balance between you want to be transparent and share things with your community, but you're also managing expectations in a way that feels much more productive and appropriate when you're looking at some of these longer roadmaps and timelines, especially.
The Future of Web3
00:14:20
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing, obviously, a lot of projects do you have long roadmaps and long timelines. We've got big plans to build. I mean, look at Ethereum with his purge merge, splurge, gurge wedge, whatever they all are. Just goes on and on and on. Exactly. So we're talking about that and talking about going on and on. I'm going to segue perfectly into the future of Web3 and decentralization. What are your so predictions and hopes for the industry? You talk about being involved with consensus back in 2017, 2018, in not coming around, some of the things not being materialized as you expected. What are some of those things that you really hope will be in the future? And let's say maybe this next cycle, let's start with.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm really excited to see that there is much more of a focus on user experience now, because I think that we were slightly delusional early on when it comes to, oh, this is such a cool technology. Everyone's going to be excited about it. So they won't mind that you have to do, you know, click on 10 to 15 more things. They won't mind that you have to write down a long and maybe intimidating seed phrase. they just like They'll be awed by this and and what it can do. But you know that's that's really not the case. If we're looking at broader adoption, we really need to focus on user experience. And I see a lot more of that. So for me, that's a huge positive because we've kind of gotten past this
00:15:44
Speaker
part of you know Web 3 development where we do just think that because we think it's great and cool, that everyone must think it's great and cool, and no one will mind being inconvenienced. But everyone minds being inconvenienced, and I think it's hard to even get someone to make one more click than they're used to when it comes to engaging with anything. um And secondly, kind of in line with that, I see a lot more conversations and focus on, OK, people will be engaging with Web 3 and not even know it. And that is really exciting to me because again, for a long time it was, okay, everyone needs to know everything about Web3 and be able to do these complex and of transactions and be able to interact and you know engage with with DeFi and all of these different ways. I think that's awesome if you're into it, but most people are not necessarily going to be.
00:16:34
Speaker
And I think as an industry, we've really matured and evolved and taken the perspective that a lot of people will use the technology. They won't necessarily realize that it's Web3 and that is most certainly not a bad thing. The people are using it and it's providing like utility and you can play a game and not necessarily know that it's Web3 or maybe the game that you love uses you know and NFTs, but you don't even realize that they're NFTs because you're collecting these great badges or you know, interesting kind of skins or however it looks for these different types of individuals. So that's super encouraging to me just because it's indicative of the overall industry maturing and a shift from just focusing and talking about who we are and what we're doing to understanding and focusing on the audience and the general public and what they actually want and need.
00:17:25
Speaker
I completely agree. and And I think one sort of example that people sort of miss, I always tend to use like the JavaScript example, and but I think an easy one is just you can have someone have an Android tablet that has a Google app, search for something and be on the internet. And then on the other side, you've got people that set their own Linux instances with their own custom browsers and plugins, and they're also on the internet. It's two completely different ways of being online. One, potentially quite technical, very customized. The other just dead straightforward. They don't even know that they're using a web browser. There are people that don't know what a web browser is that can use the internet. Yet at the moment, you kind of have to know what ah a web three wallet is to use web three. yeah I think that's what you're kind of getting in at, I guess, is it?
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Like there's a lot of ways to, I think it's value and utility out of a new technology. And just because you're doing a longer roundabout way doesn't make your way of accessing it more valid. And it's also, I think there's but progressive onboarding. I think is it a thing going like step by step. I also write for Forbes and their web three community. and They use, um what's the wallet called magic dot.link, which I've not used before. And that's a really straightforward. You just create a web three wallet with your email and you've got a web three wallet. You can't do much with it other than access the website and get their NFTs and whatnot, but you're in and you're using it and it's dead easy. And it's one click.
00:18:52
Speaker
So is is that something in terms of messaging, how important is it to you to like, I guess what I actually want to ask is from the team, from the marketing perspective, how much do you have to fight back necessarily some of that techno technological sort of aspects of the same? No, we need to talk about all this technology and you may be saying, well, no, let's talk about functionality. Is this, is there some of that friction? I think there is often that friction, especially when it's a product that is more sort of consumer focused, where you naturally really do need to orient completely towards a broader audience. And it is just because I think that a lot of it does come from enthusiasm around what special things are being built and done. But it really is, it can be quite a bit of back and forth at times. And I've seen it over the years where
00:19:43
Speaker
Everyone wants to just kind of go on about what they are doing and not really focus on what it's doing for Anyone it's kind of like I really remind people to it's kind of like you're at a party Yeah, you know and you you go up to someone and they're just like well I went to this University and now I'm working here and I have this car and I'm doing this You don't want to talk to them. You don't really want to hang out with them anymore But if they're trying to figure out who you are and connect with you on that level and be like, Oh, actually I have this friend that might be great for you to meet. It feels very different. And to me, that sort of illustrates the different types of marketing and communication styles. And, and you don't really, maybe you'll be initially curious about the person who's we're ranting on about, you know, their cars and nice house and their school, but you'd probably aren't going to really want to spend much time with them long-term. I think it's important to keep that in mind when you're, you're working on any sort of marketing or communication strategy.
00:20:39
Speaker
Brilliant. Well, you finished off this section. could Could you talk about any sort of specific challenges or turning points in your career that really helps you get a deeper understanding of the leadership or innovation in the WebP space? Absolutely. um I feel like there were some interesting turning points in in the past through you know consensus sell out as coin fund in here. And some of the patterns were really just seeing what very much doesn't work. So I think a huge turning point was probably 2018, 2019, and seeing a number of projects
00:21:19
Speaker
promising a lot and then not delivery. And that was a huge turning point because of course, like as you marketing and comms people, we know and understand that how you talk about things and when you talk about it is really important, but it really showed to me that is not an innate understanding that everyone has. And if they do, that is something that can be easily overshadowed overshadowed by enthusiasm or at times greed, trying to capitalize on specific market conditions. And that really just sort of solidified my
00:21:53
Speaker
kind of almost like thesis around doing all this work, which is to just try as much as you can to be clear and value driven in your communications and marketing and not be a hype machine. um And I've seen a lot of those hype focused projects get spectacular bumps, but then sort of just come back down because that's really not where sustainable community building happens in my mind. Finally, I would just, this this isn't on our kind of ah list, but I just like, for founders looking to start a community from scratch, what would you say is the best place to start with, well, exactly with building a community, if you are literally starting from zero? Because a lot of founders are going to be, they may have some great tech, they may have contacts, but in terms of an online community, what if you've got zero? What's the one place to start?
00:22:43
Speaker
Absolutely. um I think the number one place to start is putting together a quick plan. um I know that's not a specific channel, but by a plan, I mean really just
Starting a Community from Scratch
00:22:53
Speaker
writing down. I'd like to keep things super simple. Founders and people on these teams don't have a lot of time. It can be really overwhelming, but figuring out Who do you need to be in your community? Why do you need those folks in your community? What does a healthy community look like to you? Defining those different factors, write it down. And also understanding that your or someone on your team
00:23:19
Speaker
has to be your presence is required. Basically, you know, whether you're starting a community on Discord, whether you're starting a community on Telegram, which I think is a a really fun channel to engage with um outside of Twitter if you want to kind of have some quick announcements and back and forth. um you need to be there or someone on your team needs to be there. um Because without a face behind this or some sort of identity, I know sometimes folks use like NFTs or other avatars that they want to hide their name, that's okay. But someone has to be there because people want to interact and be in a community with other individuals, not with just a buoyant. So kind of to sum that up, clearly define your community and really what you need from it.
00:24:05
Speaker
grab a channel, stick to it, whether it is you're going to focus in on Twitter, Discord, Telegram, building community there. And then really take time to assess the result. Is this going the way that you hoped and that you had defined? Where can you pivot um and sort of evolve it from there? And just don't be afraid to reach out to those contacts if you have them. And if you don't, start hitting the pavement and getting out to some of these different events, because people are joiners. And they do you know there's a lot of enthusiasm in this space. so don't be you know don't feel like you have to hold yourself back from getting out there and making those real life connections that can translate to exponential community growth online.
00:24:43
Speaker
Fantastic, thank you very much. Just while we were talking about community, I wanted to get your thoughts on that, because I know it's a big topic, especially going into or in the middle of what is now a very early bull market pre-harving. So Charlie, let's move over to you. We're going to move on to specifically advice for startup founders in our proper format. So we've got 10 tips for startup founders. Charlie, if you'd like to take us away. Of course, of course. Okay, so these are the immunity-sourced burning questions that ah people really want answers to. So first one, what key market trends should we consider when we're developing our go-to-market strategy? Like you've seen, God knows how many businesses through coin fund. When you see a go-to-market strategy, how do you know whether one's good or not?
00:25:34
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um Something that I really look for and and kind of look at is, is your strategy oriented towards clearly defined audience segments? ah Do you know who you're even trying to reach? I think that that's a really, really important piece when you're looking at someone's sort of strategy outline. And I think that that's often sort of left off. Because again, it's that mindset of being so enthusiastic about what you're doing, that you just want to share it. And I think that's awesome, but you got to harness that enthusiasm and sometimes put it towards defining your audience and understanding their wants and needs so you can tailor your strategy accordingly. um And I think when it comes to looking at just broader trends in the Web3 space, it's just understanding
00:26:22
Speaker
really which channels are active at that time and how the market conditions could be impacting those specific channels as you pull together this strategy. Because the market does impact them. We want to, you know especially from the beginning, I'm focused on you know what people are building, what we're doing, and all of those exciting kind of more of the tech side of things than price speculation. But those price you know those speculative ah groups and communities will impact the types of channels that are most engaging and vibrant during certain periods of time. And it's understanding either how to harness that or how to select channels that to you, um, feel like they will be a little more sustainable. And I think lastly, also when we kind of come to that a little bit is making sure that you're not just completely putting all of your eggs in one basket when it comes to going to market strategy, like
00:27:16
Speaker
Don't lean too heavily on one specific Even when it comes to a community channel because if that for whatever reason goes away I mean we saw lots of I feel like turbulence and ups and downs with twitter and x Make sure that there's other places for those folks to to flee to and engage um That are already set before something like that happens Absolutely. Absolutely.
Crafting Go-To-Market Strategies
00:27:41
Speaker
I mean um when you see one of these plans what What does a good one look like what what kind of documentation that they need to have when you're when you're looking through someone's, someone's goes market plan. What are the bare bones, what are the basics.
00:27:58
Speaker
absolutely and you know Part of what I really focused on when I was doing this at Coin Fund, too, is I think it's important for our founders and teams to understand like you can spend weeks and weeks and weeks and months and months and months on one of these plans. But is that the right thing to do? Not necessarily. um We work in such a fast-paced industry that I think it is important, like you said, Charlie, focus in on sort of the bare-bones aspects. and Really, what I look for is a document that combines a lot of different things. so i look for Do you have your audience segments clearly defined and the specific value that you're providing to each of them? Okay. Is your overall go-to-market strategy a phase-by-phase approach, which I think is the most
00:28:44
Speaker
sort of digestible, especially for teams that are are trying to do things on their own. They might not have like a CMO, CGO or any of us like kind of marketing people on the team. And by that, I mean, it's kind of understanding what does it mean for the general audience segments that you're targeting to become aware and what type of content and pieces do we need to be creating at that level? Okay. So maybe general awareness is broader thought leadership on here's our thoughts on, you know, Bitcoin and what's happening next or here's whatever is related to your project but it doesn't have to be it's about your project if that makes sense or hey like here's why current you know L2 scaling solutions are not addressing XYZ.
00:29:30
Speaker
I get some ideas out there that are just pitches of your project. And the next phase when I look at these go-to markets is, how are you engaging on a slightly deeper level? This is when you can weave in a little bit more about your project, what you're doing, um without asking them to take action specifically when it comes to engaging with your project. So you know if you're thinking about scalability, how do you take it a little bit deeper and introduce that you're providing maybe a novel solution there or that you are having some sort of like unique community perspective on what this looks like. And sort of the third piece of the go-to-market plan I look for is like, this is when people deeply engage. It would be more of that educational content um woven into the strategy where it's like, here's your how-to guide to get started with us.
00:30:20
Speaker
because you have them and you've taken people on this unique journey. And that is a really bare bones sort of example with a content heavy plan. But the reason I like those types of content pieces that focus on first sort of broader thought leadership going, evolving into how to use at no point are you just pitching yourself. You're always seeking to provide value in some way. And when people get to the how to type of phase, they're with you and actually want to be educated and understand how to do it. You're not hitting them over the head with that way up here when people are just hearing about you. and Another piece of the go to market.
00:30:57
Speaker
Depending on the project um and really where it's based can be a regional breakdown. um I sometimes do include that and ask that the founders really loop that into their overall planning process because with those audience all important audience segments that we were talking about, Sometimes their needs and wants and the problems you're solving for them are different, even if you say you have very highly technical devs as one of your segments. But your highly technical devs based in New York City um have different wants and needs potentially than your highly technical devs that are based in India.
00:31:33
Speaker
So really understanding how you position yourself and draw them through this sort of journey with you as part of the go-to-market strategy is is very important. And again, it sounds, I think, a little overwhelming at first, but when you break it down into these simple phases with these simple buckets where you first establish your understanding of the audience and why you're doing anything for them and what problems you're solving, then outline a clear and simple journey, weave in some regions if you need to or want to, if that's relevant for your project, you have a pretty good starting point for what you need to do um and what you're really testing against. So that's another really, I think, important part. not you know You have to have some initial data to test if your your strategy is working, but I think designing everything with testing and iteration in mind is essential.
00:32:27
Speaker
That was a ah very complete answer. think it's just like i tried yeah i thought I thought like three or four questions over the course of that. I mean, one of the pieces that I have to sort of put in is, is and something that basically quote Leomon, you've got to deliver value first. So it's got to be that Gary Vaynerchuk, but you keep bringing up jab, which is jab, jab, jab, right hook. Like you can't just go to market and and just say, buy my stuff. you've you've actually got to start a conversation, have to bring the potential prospect on a journey, bring your audience, your potential audience member on a journey that's like, hey, I'm going to really read your piece, understand what it is that you guys are about. And then
00:33:15
Speaker
you know, do like understand the need or the problem or, or the wider sort of reading around the issue before you're like, okay, buy my stuff. You know, like there is, there is that, that that's, that's what they say, which is like, provide value, provide value, provide value. And then right hook, but they ask that, is that, have I got that right? there Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. From my point of view, it was in the Kelsey grease. Do you agree Kelsey? Yeah, I think that that value oriented approach is key. You know, you want to be offering something as often and as much as possible in my mind. And I think sometimes it can seem like that something has to be some sort of
00:34:03
Speaker
prize or financial incentives, but that something is valuable content. It's education. It's camaraderie in a community. There's a lot of forms that can take, and you should just be endlessly oriented towards that over specific asks. All right, so we're gonna were we're conscious of time. We're going to move on to the second question. We could talk about this for about 40 minutes. So this is something Leo and I have talked about at Norsium, which is product validation. And we're always saying validate your product before you start building. Make sure that there's a market for it. Make sure that people actually want it before you before you fully commit into into building an entire product. Firstly, do you agree with that?
00:34:52
Speaker
Yes, um b I think that it's important to understand know why you're doing something um and if there's any actual need for it or need for it you know within the relatively near future because with how quickly Web3 and the overall ecosystem evolves, You need to be able to do this very quickly. um So I've seen different ways of approaching this, and some are much more in depth than others. But I think that if you're a potentially you know slightly overwhelmed potential founder or a team, really engaging with other communities and
00:35:33
Speaker
getting people to weigh in. Maybe you don't have a full strong Web 3 network yet, but getting yourself to some of those community events, getting yourself into some of those communities, maybe on Discord or Telegram and testing out some of your thoughts and ideas um and sort of seeing what resonates because those are very specific sort of targeted audiences to bounce ideas off of. And that can be a great way to at least get some initial data around Is your idea interesting? Obviously, you don't have to go into the full exactly how you would do it and give all of your your projects up away. But I think that you should be. Not the full open kimono. just Yeah, exactly. You don't have to share. You're like, here's a full outline of my plan. Here's my go to market potentially. like All of that. um But it's just i don't be afraid to ask and have those conversations. and
00:36:28
Speaker
Even if the reception isn't what you thought, this gives you a lot of data to either pursue other communities and testing and asking some of these questions or pivot your idea ever so slightly. I was think I was on a panel maybe last week at one of the events and an investor was saying that you know a lot of these projects when they're at this phase and having some of these conversations, there'll be a lot of no's and pushback and they'll tweak one tiny detail around their thinking or what they want to accomplish and suddenly they have something and kind of can move into the next phase. So I think it's important to keep that in mind and and there's a degree of flexibility that I do think you should have as part of this phase to just understand what could be resonating and what might not be and that there's maybe something that you just haven't thought of that's the tiniest thing that can take you to the next level.
00:37:20
Speaker
I think we're definitely seeing that at the moment with this cycle. I think around Bitcoin, Deepin, AI, real world assets, I think these are all things that we're seeing people pivot more into. um and I know it's slightly off topic, but the ah theta network I learned the other day is now an AI. infrastructure company. Like they were purely video streaming and now they're doing AI compute. I say it's all the same infrastructure, but they're just going, Oh, but we could do this for AI as well as video. And all of a sudden it sounds interesting to people again. Hmm.
00:37:56
Speaker
Exactly. I think that you raise a really important point. It's part of this product validation phase, but just also in general, understanding what the current market's buzzwords are. um And really digging into if you think they have longevity or not, like AI, I personally think it does, um but making sure that you're really actually integrating that idea or concept into what you're doing on a product level instead of just sticking it on as an afterthought um is is really important because I remember it was that coin sign but just seeing projects something trends and all of a sudden everyone is
00:38:34
Speaker
whatever they were doing before and AI, you're like, wait, is that actually AI? Or how did you suddenly be, um but how are you able to put this together? And like, basically overnight.
Avoiding Buzzword Pitfalls
00:38:43
Speaker
um But a lot of projects are, you know, they had that opportunity, and it was already almost a holistic piece of what they were doing. I get it all the time, like press releases being sent out as a journalist, yeah I get like, so with AI being all the rage right now, and and Nick Clegg at meta saying such and such, here's my Dex. It's like, right? are i interested Well, don't forget me interested, but this has got nothing to do with the first two paragraphs.
00:39:13
Speaker
Exactly. And what you don't want to do is kind of try to trick people, you know, like don't just kind of like, subade and switch ah when it comes to these buzzwords because you know, you don't want to frustrate the journalists, you don't want to frustrate the community. And you really want to just try to build a strong foundation that feels authentic and trustworthy because not having trust in this industry is not going to work out for you. um It's something you need to be thinking of through every phase in my mind. And, you know, bait and switch is not a great tactic for that, building that. and
00:39:48
Speaker
And especially as technology develops, because um so people that are looking to market the products, obviously a lot of them are trying to market to people like myself who are writing articles. And I now have technology that filters every email that ever comes through before it's my inbox. I get to decide whether to accept or block that sender forever. So when there's so when a PR, and I've got to the point now where if someone sends me one of those emails, I just hit block and that's it. They never hit my inbox again. Well, I think that's an important point because these these types of things have lasting consequences. And for any founders that are not as or teams are not as familiar with the value of, you know, journalists and making sure that they are interested in hearing from you at value is a immense, especially when it comes to building that sort of trust that i I mentioned. But they're not going to write about things not to speak for you, but they're not going to write about things that are just
00:40:40
Speaker
fluff or have tacked on buzzwords. They're looking for something real and engaging for their audiences that they're looking after as well. So don't burn those bridges and really be mindful of that starting early on because a lot of your marketing and what you're doing should be aimed to towards these journalists as well. And if anyone's thinking that the way round it is, which some of them are definitely starting to do, which is to create new PR ah people every day. I've got one PR company that sends emails from a new person at the company every day, pretty much. And what's the point where it's like, well, I have two options. I can block the email or I can block the domain. I never blocked the domain because I'm like, I'm not going to let one PR person ruin it for the entire company. But.
00:41:21
Speaker
There's one company at the moment that's on my list for if they send another one, the whole PR company is being blocked. So like, I think that whole kind of it like gray hat ah SEO and gray hat marketing that used to be a big thing kind of like 15 years ago and in the, on the internet. I think those sort of technologies now, like I completely agree. We value transparency and honesty and sort of, you have to genuinely be interested, um, and find a way to do it. Otherwise you'll get found out. Exactly. That's wild with the new PR people every day. I hadn't heard about that. Yeah. it's the well I mean, unless they're just growing rapidly, but it's like, cause I've blocked several people from this company and then I keep getting emails from the company. So it's like, well, these are all new people then apparently.
00:42:09
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Wow, that's something else. So yeah, everyone don' do not do that. and yeah no No bots. um All right, circling back, product market fits. Again, huge question. How how do we best identify and test product market fit in web3 industry? yeah We can seek validation by going to our community. We can definitely get out there and don't open the full kimono, but say, look, this is what I'm intending on doing. But what what would you consider to be a good test? like it's yeah I think the old adage was no one related to or in your friend set, 10 people that said, I would buy this. I think that's from the old the old Web 2 standards was that you potentially already collected money for it. Is it similar in Web 3? I know we're building a lot and then know living on funding, but
00:43:05
Speaker
How how this ah do you see that ah test product market fit be? Yeah, I think an important test is something that you can sort of sit down and initially do yourself, especially after having some of those conversations we mentioned with community and anyone that we're really you can have that type of chat with is breaking down how you're actually solving a problem. So I see things that are being built that are cool, but cool will only take you but so far if it's not actually solving anything. um and This is another opportunity for you even as part of your so go-to-market document. Do you break down specifically as part of that audience-related exercise? How are you solving a problem for each of those specific audience segments with what you're doing?
00:43:59
Speaker
And kind of, I think we'll get into a little bit more of kind of a competitor analysis down the line, but are other folks already doing this? Because I've also seen that in the past too, where there was this great idea and it was, you know, there's, it's truly a great idea, but there's already a project that's been working on it for years. And that doesn't mean that you can't innovate, but you do need to understand what it means to have your main competition be a project that's been established for three, five years already and has a robust community, you have to make sure that you're really approaching this in a unique way or that you're leading on a lot of other sort of value oriented marketing and comm channels to sort of make up for that that massive gap. um So I encourage people to really kind of dig into that quite a bit more. um
00:44:50
Speaker
I think that people can also sort of parse out those and it this applies later in the process as well but you know the the SWOT analysis um as you can see I'm a big fan of some of these like very simple ways of breaking down these at times overwhelming and complex concepts just because I've worked with so many teens where maybe it's one person maybe it's two people like how much are you kind of being able to really pour into this and how much do you really understand how to approach things from an audience perspective. So if you run something like that, I just encourage folks to use a high degree of kind of personal integrity and honesty. um Don't deceive yourself. Like if you think something is cool,
00:45:34
Speaker
and people would like it, really challenge yourself to break that down in sort of this product market fit phase and really understand like and be able to articulate what specifically it is doing for each of these groups. And if you're unable to do that, I really think it's time to give things a little more thought. I'm not saying that things, a need won't arise down the line, but that should also be something that you can clearly articulate. and really sort of start reassessing if it's just because it seems sparkly and cool, but you can't articulate anything else about what value it will be providing down the line. Because I guarantee if you need investors, they are going to be asking you know why this needs to exist and really what their money is going towards. So best think about it early on. With respect to being right at the beginning of your journey to build on what you've just said,
00:46:29
Speaker
Are there any, I mean, I don't know if there's an industry standard, but are there any like key KPIs? Like I i know this many people like the idea, therefore I should pursue it. there Is there ah an inflection point in thinking or the way in which you approach the market that recommend our viewers? Yeah, I think it's kind of important to understand to your degree, like what your total addressable market is. Like if you're doing something really niche for realistically your audience segment are like seasoned web three builders and developers and you have a core group.
00:47:06
Speaker
Potentially already that you think will immediately engage and then there's groups that you're hoping to convert Understand kind of what that broader number looks like and you can start breaking that down by through this instance There's information and the number of course fluctuates. It's kind of tricky to kneel down ah at times. We're always looking for better data um But you know understanding okay x number of web 3 developers exist so realistically what percentage do you think actually has this type of problem? And dig into the communities, kind of scan. I feel like online, are there are there articles? Are there different sort of quotes? Are there tidbits? Are you seeing events and conferences addressing this topic?
00:47:51
Speaker
Because I do think that, although I wouldn't commit since projects vary so much, and maybe some projects would only need to be like, OK, I think 3% of my you know addressable market would need to engage with this project to make it sort of viable. um But understanding what that specific number needs to be to actually survive as a project. um But secondly, like on a more granular level, if you're like, OK, I got people from, three of the top Web3 communities that are filled with people that I think would engage with my product, that can be a solid indicator. um I think it's hard, like I said, to have a set number without really diving into what the project is and and how
00:48:37
Speaker
it really would be operating in this space. But those are a couple of ways of looking at things from a metrics standpoint. Another is understanding. This requires some tooling at times, which I don't always recommend a founder or team get early on. But there's a lot of ways of measuring sort of share a voice around specific topics across, say, Twitter X, even kind of general what's happening in Web3 News. And if there's a specific You know, amount of momentum around this conversation that you need to be a part of for your project I think that this really helpful indicator of whether or not your idea is maybe viable whether the need is there and whether at least you could kind of capitalize on this initial momentum. I know it's a few different ways of approaching it and it can sound a little bit challenging but
00:49:28
Speaker
Really to kind of break it down, you know talk to people and ask if you're able to connect with someone who has tools that can measure share of voice around these topics, do. um Although I wouldn't say suggest allocating a lot of your budget initially towards that and really understand your total addressable market. um And if it's teeny tiny, you need to understand like if you need to get every single person in this market to make your project viable, maybe it will not necessarily work out because getting 100% of any segment isn't particularly realistic. Absolutely. That was an excellent answer. Sigma iron in the fire went through through my experience. It's usually been, so Tam, your total addressable market needs to be over a billion dollars.
00:50:16
Speaker
general Generally, VCs don't care if it's if it's not big enough, basically. Um, so there's, it's the, the town, some and Sam, so it's your, your serviceable addressable market and your serviceable obtainable market. And and that's what you're referring to there, which is how much of the market you can address immediately, which is the short-term just Sam or some is what you were willing to go after the obtainable. And then, uh, your total addressable market. But yeah, that is an excellent answer. um With that said, I'm going to accelerate a little bit. might We might do a bit a bit of ah a fast around, mainly because of time. But the next question is audience building. ah What strategies would you say you found most effective? Obviously, Richardium and CoinFund, you've seen communities grow, communities wane.
00:51:09
Speaker
um in in If we're looking at right at the beginning of our journeys, what what strategies have you found to be most effective and in growing a dedicated community? So so maybe not my NFT shilling community. thats ah We will avoid those, but um you're looking to build sort of a dedicated community and audience in the web-free space. Yeah. And obviously like we talked previously about when you started from zero, but I think what's really useful is a lot of people have at least their own personal networks that they can bring in. So once you've got some sort of you've you've got off the ground, how do you then grow it?
00:51:47
Speaker
Absolutely. um I always start with, again, outline it like we talked about earlier. you know What are you trying to accomplish? What's working, what's not working? And test and understand what success looks like from a community perspective every single
Recognizing Community Contributions
00:52:03
Speaker
week. So if you need 30% growth week over week, you need to understand like Is that happening? Is that not happening? But really kind of in a bigger picture piece, an important one is you have to recognize and foster sort of brand and community affinity. And by that, I mean, is there someone in your community that is really stepping up? Is there someone that's actually trying to answer questions for the other community members? Is there someone that is putting their raising their hand to organize meetups from a organic perspective?
00:52:35
Speaker
perspectives think about designing a program to really recognize those and ah individuals. Because the ideal thing and what you can do to sort of accelerate your community growth is you really want those evangelists. And people just on a basic level want to feel appreciated. So show your appreciation and figure out what way is appropriate for your community. um You know, I think this also kind of leads us into a conversation around like, intrinsic and extrinsic motivators you know where you don't want to just be like, hey, I'm recognizing you by sending you $10 or you know sending you some ether doing this or that. You really want to recognize by things that bring people in closer, whether it's like a really
00:53:17
Speaker
awesome curated box of swag that's actually useful and not just like an old t-shirt or if it's access to special events that bring the community in or side dinner. There's a lot of ways to do this, whether it's kind of first access or they are able to weigh in on the next etc wave of improvements or features. make people feel special and they'll keep really showing up for you. And I think that that's important to sort of weave in throughout. It has to come from a really sort of authentic standpoint, which is why it's great if it comes from a found and founder or founding member of the team, because they're in it with you and they're appreciating what you've created. So show your appreciation back. It can't be a one-way street. um So that's really important. ah Another one is I think sometimes we forget this, especially when we get wrapped up in
00:54:07
Speaker
marketing and you're representing a brand and you know people the end game is you want folks to connect with the the brand, the project, what you're doing is be a person. like Don't talk to people like they're the customer or they're the audience segment. it's a huge pet peeve of mine and you actually see numbers starting to drop off when even I've seen founders or CEOs publish community letters and it says, you know we sound that the customer is like this. And it's like, no, you you found that you all appreciate this or that the community is thriving as a result of this. don't
00:54:44
Speaker
act like you're above them or different from them or use overly complex or annoying marketing speak. I mean, that's reserved for internal for the teams. We're breaking down the audience segment. That is not something that is external facing. It just makes it seem like you're kind of a robot marketer or business person and not a real person. um And people want to engage with other real people. um So don't don't sound like that and I think connecting to that and have a little fun with it I mean, we're doing really big things in the space and It's really exciting that industry is maturing so it can feel Serious, especially certain projects, but that doesn't mean that you can't have a little bit of fun um And that can be through like colorful engaging branding. It can be through your conversational style it can be through memes but
00:55:35
Speaker
Really, if you're enjoying being there and having fun with it, even when it is a lot of work, other people will too. You don't want to go somewhere, like kind of if you think about a party or a room, you want to go to the party where people seem like they're enjoying themselves and the host is enjoying themselves. instead of the party where the horror host is running around clearly wildly stressed out and maybe just a couple people are having a good time. That's a very different tone and I think it's easy to forget that because often we're a little bit overworked and maybe a little bit tired at the end of the day, but you're really there for a reason and have a nice time with it and and don't forget, kind of lose don't lose sight of that piece.
00:56:15
Speaker
I think when you've got people like Franklin Templeton and VanEck posting on X with their DGen intern accounts um and sharing memes, I think when you've got institutions like that having fun, it kind of shows that, yeah, there's room to have some fun and find your audience. ah Exactly. It's not that suddenly no one is going to take you serious. It's almost like partially the language of Web3. And if you take all the fun out of it, you you're not really left with a whole lot when it comes to the community building or or people really wanting to come with you on the journey. All right. um On to question five, user acquisition. um Again, I know I'm putting you on the spot here, Kelsey, but could you share some successful tactics
00:57:03
Speaker
or channels for acquiring new users other than the obvious that ah our viewers might not have thought of. Yeah, um I think that user acquisition from a holistic perspective is really important and by that I mean show up as a person like we talked about. You can make some videos like this is great having some video content out there and then make the most of everything that you do so and I think you guys are fantastic at this as well, but it is that You can make video clips. You can then engage in conversations that are in line with the videos you make. So just get the mileage out of what you're doing instead of looking at each thing as a separate initiative. Everything should connect and flow together. And I think that that's really important. Another thing is something I was thinking about the other day is sticky is sticky. Like have a, like a fun shtick, maybe like a.
00:57:57
Speaker
joke or something colorful and interesting um that you can be known for. And that can mean something like at Consensus, we had a massive activation in a garden where all of the portfolio companies, which were called Stokes, had these giant colorful creatures that represented them. And it was this whole interactive experience. And that ended up being really memorable. Or at Chardium, we were working and and got part of a campaign out where We solve the trilemma. I won't get too much into that, but you know, security, scalability, decentralization. And we turned each of those into a creature. And we have the fun swag and the stickers. And the idea is you can catch all three almost like they are Pokemon because they solve the trilemma. And that sort of thing has just kind of
00:58:47
Speaker
stuck with people, even at times it can kind of feel a little bit silly or cheesy, but it works for the specific audiences and it shows that you could have a little fun and and that's really what sticks. And then I think also we can't emphasize enough, educate. So educate as much as you can um and understand that a lot of times people will have to see something seven, eight times before they become like a user of your project or whatever you're doing. So just keep putting things out there that are value oriented.
00:59:22
Speaker
um And eventually it will convert, but just have a little bit of patience too. I know we're all so excited to see those numbers bump up and we were eagerly checking on the number of website visits or or followers on Twitter, but it will take time before folks even sort of dip their toes into that part of the journey. So understanding that those initial efforts aren't in vain and really sticking with some ideas and concepts around what you're doing for a set period of time before kind of measuring and assessing whether or not to pivot. ah It's an excellent answer. I think um yeah this it's a page out of Steve Jobs' book, isn't it? Education is the best form of marketing and and absolutely I completely agree. Is sticky is sticky? sticky
01:00:11
Speaker
Yeah, I was like, like it now that was the idea. Yeah, he sticky is the sh sticky sticky yeah exactly. I was like, that kind of works. And I was like, oh, it's kind of stupid. And I was like, it it really actually just is exactly what it is also. So, I mean, it's stuck in my head for sure. And I was like, you know what? If it's ah kind of annoying, but easy to remember thing that can get stuck in someone's head. Yeah, you know. Then you can kind of use a little bit of that thinking when you're considering user acquisition because if you're just kind of, I see so much content, the websites, the educational materials, everything looks exactly the same. It reads the same, it feels the same, but just think about what is your little thing that you can be doing across all the channels that it shows that it's you and can kind of be a little more fun or humanize what you're doing to a degree.
01:01:01
Speaker
Well, that brings us perfectly onto point six, which is competitive analysis. So how should ah founders approach a competitive analysis? How do you look at the marketplace and then um identify where you're different? I think this ties into some of those other pieces when we're thinking about go to market and a lot of the steps that we look at there. I would look at folks that are projects that are really trying to solve a similar problem. I would look at projects that are
01:01:33
Speaker
doing a, taking a slightly different approach to the same problem. And by that, I mean, you know, there's groups that are gonna be trying to do it potentially exactly the way that you're trying to do it. And then there's gonna be projects and groups that are trying to do it, but with a little bit of twist. um And then I would look at any sort of larger, say in the L1 space, very well established, you know, L1s, if we're looking at like Bitcoin and Ethereum, versus some of these other different types of projects and understanding what's working well for them. um This is where though some of those tools can also come in in handy depending on how much you want to invest or if you have someone that has access to something like that, where you can determine a little bit more around share of voice for each of those competitors and projects. And that has been really helpful when I've done these types of assessments in the past.
01:02:23
Speaker
But I do think it really comes down to also whether it's ah one of those SWOT analysis is like I mentioned, or just clearly defining relative to each of those competitors, how you are doing something a little bit different and how you're going to reach the audience that they already have and convert them and really defining that. clearly on paper and to yourself um before moving forward too much because or else I think that you really are going to miss a lot of gaps when it comes to positioning yourself in the best possible way and you're potentially doing something that is already has like a fully saturated kind of done and done community and audience. That's not to say that trying isn't, you know,
01:03:12
Speaker
ah that you know is a bad thing, but I do think breaking it down in that way and having that kind of honesty with yourself before moving forward is really, really important. um I do think this is another way where you can kind of start digging through and identifying, since a lot of these conversations also happen at these larger Web 3 events, going through and understanding who are the projects that are also consistently listed as the speakers, who's spending money to get out there and really wrapping that into your analysis is really important because if you see that, Hey, it's a near is out there or even like a salon, whoever you're sort of looking at, um, making sure that you understand how they're addressing this type of audience and what type of really budget and everything that they're
01:04:03
Speaker
spending to be there um is an important part of the overall analysis. so Lastly, I would just make sure that this is an important step and just break it down clearly and don't run an infinite competitive analysis because I've seen that it's easy to get swept up because there's a lot of overlap, most likely with a lot of different projects, don't need to include every single possible one that you can think of. And in a perfect world, we could, but realistically, by the time you're done doing all of that, an opportunity might have passed. So I just recommend doing all of this with a little bit of speed and efficiency in mind and not getting too mired down. on
01:04:45
Speaker
Just think of it as like quick, precise understanding exactly the core pieces that you need to when it comes to this and and how these other projects are relating to your audience that you're after and then assessing from there. So once you've established that, um what are the key parts of a good value proposition for the key components? um I always like um our friend Ross talks about looking at what will be possible when for the for the user. but what What's your main of key thing you're looking for in a value proposition?
01:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that too. um The what is possible when approach I think is fantastic and really just starting with what are you, I mean honestly it's kind of that just phrased slightly differently like what are you doing for the audience and how um without getting too mired in the details. so you know What problem are you solving and quickly how? like What's the difference in what you're doing? Is it that you're solving for you know so a scalability challenge and you're using
01:05:55
Speaker
auto scaling or depending on the audience, you have to tweak things a little bit. But I say, you know, just really keep it very, very simple at that level and easy to articulate. Just like, you know, I think you said your friend Ross mentioned, I think keep the nail on the head there. So so you do you agree then that it should be less about kind of the the specific product or service that you have and what your users will be able to do once they're using your product? Exactly. it's It's what you can do with it. Like what, again, kind of the theme of our conversation, what value is it providing? So just like all of your marketing and and content and all of that should be providing value focused on a product level with the value that it is actually providing to your key audience and and can work from there.
01:06:45
Speaker
Okay, so steam rolling through the back end of this section. um Once you've got that in, sort of lay it out, and you know, okay, this is of the value that I'm bringing. What are the marketing channels that you think are the most effective in web three? um How should you prioritize them? And are there any that you should just avoid? Yeah, I think that Discord is really strong. I'll just sort of go through. So we have those social channels, you know, we're thinking Discord, you're thinking like Twitter X. There's lots of new, um I feel like channels popping up all the time, but I find that sometimes teams and founders can get stretched a little too thin when you try to saturate every single channel you could think of at the same time. um Another channel that I think is
01:07:33
Speaker
kind of sneakily impactful at times is LinkedIn, depending on your project. And then do not underestimate like YouTube and your blog. So ideally all of these connect together. So what I would say, and also a personal channel, I never want to forget that for the founder or someone on the team. So you need that human channel and you need your brand channels. Yeah, people buy from people. Absolutely. Exactly. So don't forget that, you know, as a founder, as a founding team member, whoever you are in the specific project, it is people want to hear from the founder. So it should really be a really fantastic interaction between all of the different core channels. And that means say you draft a blog post on
01:08:20
Speaker
the current state of decentralization you know in Web3. I'm not saying that you should write that specific one. It might be a little dry, but just as an example. um and Then you have a quick video clip that's a Q and&A of you and someone from the community talking about the state of decentralization. and Then on X or Twitter, You have little clips of the video. You have some pieces from the blog. It all feeds together. And this would be safe for a project that's focused to some degree, of course, on decentralization. And then you as a founder or team member would post your own thoughts or opinions and then be reposted on Twitter X by the main brand account. And that way you're pushing forward a unified perspective on something that is relevant to the industry.
01:09:09
Speaker
So it's really, to me, not even as much the specific channels, although they are important. It's how you can weave them together into something that feels cohesive across a few different ways that people attain and digest information. And by that, I mean blog long form. YouTube video and then whatever social channel, which is usually quick bites and repurposed pieces. And then of course that human element where it's an actual person on a team posting and commenting that then can be shared on the broader channel. And those sorts of connections are what I've seen the most successful when it comes to those ah marketing channel usage. There's a lot of times we just focus on one or another. Yeah, i I'd add make sure that person, whoever you choose to be the face of your business,
01:09:53
Speaker
is with your business for the long term? Yes, that is important. Yeah, it's helpful if that person is the founder because yeah they will be around usually. um But that's a really good point. Okay, well, the the last two sections we've we've got for this, um something that I see as being very important to work through, which is partnerships and collaborations.
Leveraging Partnerships Effectively
01:10:14
Speaker
I think we see probably more than in any other space I've worked in, the amount of time people are willing to give just to help connect to the projects together for the bit of the space. But then just in general, um partnering your project officially with another ah project. That seems to be something you see a lot. Does it work? I cannot emphasize the importance of partnerships enough.
01:10:39
Speaker
But when you're thinking about how to make the biggest impact out of these partnerships, there's that you know collaborative Web3 element that you mentioned where people do want to just connect and introduce each other. Do that. I think it's really important. um From a marketing perspective, if you have a partnership, I would say start building out a set of marketing activities when it comes to each new type of partner. And by that, I mean it's understanding the potential type of impact that each part each partner has and not just announcing it. I think I get really tired of the so-and-so is partnering with so-and-so, that's it. Like, well, what does this mean? So I would say making sure that you're always highlighting what that means for your community. And some projects, and I've seen this in design systems in the past, also will organize their partnerships almost into different types of tiers.
01:11:34
Speaker
where various marketing activities are allocated to each tier. So say you have a smaller, more niche project, and you always at least write a post, on publish it on on Twitter, and it's about what this partnership needs for the community. Say you have a giant partner, you're working with like a Google or Amazon or someone bigger, That's when, if they're legal department permitting, um you also have a video, you have the posts, you write a PR, you know an announcement, a blog post, all of those different pieces. So I think wrapping your head around and getting organized around these different types of also like collaborative marketing activities ahead of time is really important because one challenge I see time and time and again in our teams, not setting realistic expectations with partners.
01:12:24
Speaker
You'll have the non-marketing person telling this potential partner, yeah, we're going to make a video together. We're going to host events together. We're going to do so many meetups. And then the other person on the team or the marketing person, and these are small teams, these issues still happen, um is suddenly like, well, I don't have the the resources for that or we don't have the bandwidth for that. So kind of working across the teams and making sure that you're really buttoned up on what partnership marketing looks like for your organization and making sure that you make the most out of every single interaction. And then secondly, always being proactive about connecting people, even when it doesn't directly benefit your KPIs, just just doing the right thing and it helps the overall ecosystem.
01:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, I've definitely like the thing is as well the the dividends for those pay off over time and you don't know when it'll pay off. um I've definitely seen that as the case because it's one of my my favorite things about moving into journalism pretty much ah full time is I don't have anything to sell anymore. So I just connect people, um, and I'm more than happy to, and I do it just for the love of the space. And it's great. Be like, Oh, well, I need to give it. No, I don't care. Like just go and do good stuff together. I like to introduce good people to good people. Um, so if you're good people out there and you need some contacts, hit us up on a the, what the three after the dark shows where we can chat.
01:13:51
Speaker
and That's awesome. I do i think that that's probably one of my favorite parts about being in Web3 is when you know just the right person to introduce to someone else, and it just does something amazing for them, or they just have a really great coffee. It doesn't matter. It just kind of brings a lot more kind of energy and fun into the space, and I absolutely love it. Yeah. One of my, one of my best kind of meetings like that was just, it was over just a Google meet, but I was, um, I managed to take some time to, um, have a call with someone just to catch up. And because of being recommendation while I was out in the zoo. So I only had to get my laptop while I was at the zoo with elephants behind me and have this like 30 minute call with someone. Um, and the projects just done, uh, their first token generation event and it's doing really, really well. And I've seen them grow from like,
01:14:43
Speaker
literally just that first call to where they're doing now. And it's super exciting. and Um, and I've been with them on that journey because of it because of someone's recommendation. It's been super fun. That's so cool. You're in the elephants. ah Okay. Um, last one in this section is KPIs, uh, in emerging tech in web three, what are the KPIs that really matter? If you had to pick like, if you only, you only have three KPIs for some reason, what would they be? Yeah, I really like um one super solid one, which is if you're focused on you know Twitter X, website visits, one metric like that. Okay, we have X number of new followers. We have X number of website visitors for these different regions and have something locked in like that.
01:15:30
Speaker
And then to sort of balance that with our constantly fluctuating market, I like a market share metric, which is those competitors that you listed out early on, just understanding your share of the market relative to each of them, because it sort of hedges that hard number metric. You're going to see lots of ups and downs potentially, or some stalled out numbers when it comes to Twitter followers or website visitors. But with this hedge metric, and there's some relatively inexpensive tools for this, so I do recommend looking at it. You can understand if your market share is still growing. So maybe your followers are down, but hey, you gain 3% market share relative to your top competitors. You're actually doing really well.
01:16:10
Speaker
And I think the balance of those two can be really, really helpful. So if I had to pick three, it probably would be, I think website is still an interesting channel, one of your social channels, and then your hedge metric as your top three, and it's worth it. Because also when you're working even as a small team or even just as a founder, you need to make sure you're having that perspective of what's happening outside of just your project. So that hedge metric really helps you understand like, Okay, here's what's going on for these other types of projects. It's not just me watching, you know, painstaking like number by number growing on, um, in your community channels and website visits. There's, there's a bigger world out there and you need to stay connected with it to remain competitive. And surely that, I mean, I think it's absolutely fantastic answer. And I don't know, I've never thought of it that way, but that ties directly into knowing where you're at for reaching your addressable market as well. Exactly. It all comes together.
01:17:05
Speaker
Yeah. Just to make this a bit more practical and like what you do is that so website metrics, mouse, low hot jar, Google analytics, um social media has its own analytics on it. Market share metrics. Are there any platforms that you recommend or point people in the direction of? Yeah, ah we have SEMrush. It's SEMrush. It's fine. you know I feel like there's always these tools where you're like, oh, it's not the perfect tool, but that really has been helpful. um So we focus in on that and that looks at specifically the website traffic because we've identified that as a channel that
01:17:46
Speaker
We want to drive too, because it's going to be a home for a lot of resources. And and that includes, you know't it's not going to be as valuable if it's just like your homepage visits. We have a lot of educational material housed there. So it really is a great measure of how we're doing, driving people to our value you know-related oriented materials versus what's happening with some of our competitors. um you know, we don't want to just be in our little little bubble. So I'd say that as a tool works out well. um For social, I've liked Sprout in the past just because you can do social listening, um which I do think costs a little bit extra. So I don't always recommend it right off the bat, but you can understand what conversations are happening. um You can dig into a little bit more of those share of voice metrics, but I like to keep it relatively simple and straightforward and not too expensive to kick things off.
01:18:39
Speaker
I say SEMrush is a good starting point. I would like to shill the idea of Web3 Social as well, because I'm a big fan of Lens at the moment. You've obviously got Farcaster, you've got Desify. I think Socialify is a growing area. Like you say, maybe if you're going to pick a channel to start with, it's maybe not going to be the one. It may be. It depends where your community are. But the great thing about Web3 Social is there's open source like June analytics, it's just implemented lens metrics directly into it. um You have, there's a as a platform called Bello insights for lens as well, because it's all on chain, all this information you can get on chain. So I think as Web3 Social, social fiber, we want to call it.
01:19:23
Speaker
c grows, it's going to be really fascinating how easy you're able to um tap into these numbers and see what other wallets are interacting with other wallets and all this sort of stuff. So I think that's something I'd recommend people take a look at. I've earned a few thousand dollars this month posting on my three social from people collecting content. um Whereas I've paid X. like, what was is it? $20 a month plus how much on ads. So there's a big difference there between Web3 Social getting paid to do it and Web2 Social having to pay to do it.
01:19:56
Speaker
I think that's so cool. I would be thrilled if we just were like, hey, let's say goodbye to X, Twitter, all of that nonsense and convert over to Web3 Social. Not that there isn't a place for that and that I know that there's always a lot of pressure to post and engage because, oh, journalists are there. Journalists are there. They're going to see and ask you questions, but we could just kind of collectively transition transition over to more Web3 Social. That would be absolutely amazing. Which one is your absolute favorite if you had to pick one? lens because okay because the fact that you own your own social graph, and I mean, I use like i use Orb, I use Hey, that XYZ, I use favor and I use Kyra and I use tape. I use five different apps, but they're all lens. So it's the same social graph.
01:20:42
Speaker
So I use them for different things. so And because you can collect posts. So yeah, I'm making silly songs about Bitcoin and and people are buying them um and collecting them with tokens that used to be meme coins, but now have utility because we're buying and selling them. So there's a token called Bonsai that launched on Lens as just a meme coin. And now people are buying and selling posts with it. And now all of a sudden, well, it's a utility token and it's not a meme anymore. And for me, as someone who got into Web3 via Dogecoin in 2014, it's really amazing because that's the vision I had for Doge. I thought it would be a fun thing that we use online on MySpace at the time or whatever it was to buy and sell things with each other. Never happened. It's kind of happening with this bonsai token and I love it. It's great fun. That is so cool. I need to check that out now.
01:21:33
Speaker
i wrote and i pen about on cryto slate so ah check Check it out. So Kelsey, I know ah branding is something that you know a lot about and in web through we talks about the way of being able to stand out. Is there anything different about branding and emerging tech over sort of web two or sort of tradify areas? um And if not, what are the most important things regardless? Yeah, I think that a big difference is, for one reason or another, a lot of things are purple. um And that's fine. but um But I do think, though, it's so purpley. Purple, a lot of purple. But you know moving past that, and I'm not trying to say that if you have purple, that you're doing something wrong. It's just that Web3 branding, you have a little more room, I think, to get creative, even if you have a product that
01:22:25
Speaker
is focused more on the institutional side. These different groups are working with something that's a little more exciting and has a unique emerging tech element. So I just encourage teams and founders to really think about what their visual identity, what the visual representation of what they're doing truly is and enjoy using a little bit of color, enjoy employing like a dynamic experience on the website that still clearly communicates things. And really I've seen some incredible results from this where we just did, um, I think it was actually with shardium not too long ago from our old
01:23:06
Speaker
Branding to our new branding and didn't even really announce anything because usually it's it's not necessarily a newsworthy No, wait, you'll know that better than me. No one why would they care? There's a different color ah but just from the different design and sort of the flow of the website we saw double the number of Visitors on that day and nothing else was really happening that day So I would just encourage founders and teams to not undervalue that because it's still you're you're showing up as the whole package you have your voice how you're talking about things how you're educating who you are at events and also the colors and really look and feel of your project is
01:23:48
Speaker
very, very important. So don't get lost in the shuffle and make sure it actually means something to you instead of defaulting to the usual little tech figures um or some of the other things that we see across the board when it comes to brands. In a space where there's a lot of people a lot of imitators, how difficult is it to switch branding? Because obviously, ah we're in a space where every single Twitter X thread has to end with, this is the end of the thread because the amount of scams that are going to come after it. If yeah if you're moving from a recognized brand to a new thing, is there anything you need to think about about how you do that?
01:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, I would come up with, it as everyone probably knows at this point, a big stand of plans and outlines with goals around that. um So I just come up with an easy plan. It doesn't have to be too complicated around how are you can sort of let people know that you're going to change some things. You can let them know that you want to become something that better represents the community and who you are and what you're doing.
Community Involvement in Branding
01:24:51
Speaker
So that way it's just not, you know, no one's being blindsided. And when it does come out, you can be like, Hey, we created this to better serve you by XYZ. You can find the educational materials a little more easily. It's colorful and more vibrant, just like our project and who we are. You know, you don't have to be that kind of
01:25:09
Speaker
surface level, but it gives the idea of why you've done something and it all should be really for the community, um which is what the branding is all about. And then peter can go so i was and people go back and check that you've posted for months about it. Exactly. that So they have a ah point of reference there. And in terms of people kind of being shocked by something, or a lot of times communities don't necessarily handle change well, I think a key part of this and what we did at Chardium as well was take a number of opportunities to pull the community. So I had the overall kind of creative vision and direction for what made sense for the project. But there were key points where we asked the community, do you like this color or that color or this one?
01:25:55
Speaker
and they can weigh in. Or do you like this sort of outline with these types of shapes and logo or that one? And it was surprising. People just want to feel like they're a part of it, and then that way they are. it's you know They truly are shaping that part of your identity with you. And a lot of the brands that, from a starting point I've seen, are so neutral and looks the so similar to all these other brands, that once you innovate and create something special, I've seen it be very well-received, which is exciting. Really great advice. um Because it looks, and especially from like ah from a journalistic point of view as well, if you don't get that right, um it can be really disorientating. I remember when Aave introduced Avara as the new head company of the group. And I was really confused um for a good hour or so when I'm looking to whether it needs to be reported on or not, because I thought they'd actually changed they'd dropped Aave. I thought they were dropping the ghost. And I'm like, no!
01:26:51
Speaker
Don't drop the ghost. I love the ghost. Yeah. yeah like Because it kind of came out of nowhere. Like you said, like, I think if they had just like, yes, you want that shock value to try and get attention. But I think there's a lot to be said in this space of just, you know, creating that plan, teasing things out um so that everyone knows where they stand with it and the same getting people involved. I mean, how many parts of the space are involved with DAOs now? So if it's not a DAO, doesn't mean you still can't have a sort of DAO like mentality and trying to improve things. Exactly. Like if they had pulled the community, maybe they did, I didn't see it, but hey, here's our ghost. Should we keep him or not? I feel like a lot of people would have engaged and that could have been a bit ah big opportunity to not only tease that there might be changes coming, but show everyone how much they love the little ghost and have kind of Ave and everything top of mind for a little bit. But those are the types of opportunities I think you can really
01:27:45
Speaker
where you can involve the community and they create a process and build even more of that kind of excitement and feeling of camaraderie and of building something together, which you really are. And I think that's just really smart. Like even if you were never planning on getting rid of the ghost, if you can sense check through your plan, people might think we are, if we don't do it right, you play on that. Yeah, and then then you were like, oh, we now have a strong data point. So if one day a founder wakes up and is like, I hate the ghost day, you're like, no, we actually all love it. We actually have data behind that and the ghost lives or or dies or whatever. Yeah. um Okay. Brilliant. Well, let let's move on to our final section then. um Charlie, do you want to take away our desert island essentials? Of course. Of course. Okay.
Online Engagement Essentials
01:28:27
Speaker
So Kelsey, this is this is a component where we're looking for the most practical steps we can give our viewers.
01:28:33
Speaker
If you imagine back at the start of your career, no bags, no reputation, no connections in the space, no black book full of numbers that can help get you out of a tight spot in your entrepreneurial journey, what are the five things you would bring to that desert island in terms of the essentials to to help accelerate yourself on that journey? Absolutely. Outside of like a very strong s SPF. um I don't know if this one counts, but you know, your phone, i because telegram. So I don't know if telegram is allowed as a desert island one. So say, you know, no one. um
01:29:10
Speaker
But you have Telegram. You can go on and join all these little communities and groups and start talking. Start sharing your thoughts, maybe make some memes, um which you can also do on your phone if you're on a desert island. um But really start getting out there and building those connections because I have found that a lot of some communities more so than others. So ah it's a little bit of trial and error that folks like to engage. And if you're trying to to get started in Web3 and start building those connections, offer your thoughts. If someone shares something in the Telegram group that you're in that you think is interesting, respond and comment on it. you know Drop some fun like emojis on the different comments. there's Just start really consistently engaging, and that's a great way to build things up a little bit when you don't have that level of connectivity, when you don't have those
01:30:00
Speaker
connections that you already you know have later in your career. So that's a big one, I think. um Another one is if you can get your hands on a book that is focused more on broader almost psychology behind marketing and business. And it's not going to be a perfect application to all things Web3, but I think it's important for us to consistently get out of our own bubbles. And there have been they there are things that have already been done and thought through and researched that still work when it comes to Web3. And one of the books I do like is focused on behavioral science in marketing.
01:30:42
Speaker
And it just really digs into, so really that book, I think it's called Behavioral Science and Marketing, um or any of those more psychology Facebooks will get you a lot further than some of these hyper tailored, you know it's only good for 10 minutes because we're trying to capitalize on this type of NFT. you know explosion or something like that because there are certain factors that really drive people. And whether it's like we've talked about understanding that people want to be part of ah a community and really what drives that or understanding some of the interesting biases that people have around you know abundance versus scarcity, I think it helps you just
01:31:23
Speaker
understand your fellow humans a little bit better and really understand and reorient yourself consistently towards people time and time again. um And those have been really key
Pursuing Online Learning
01:31:33
Speaker
ones. I think in terms of online courses, I feel like I am on a constant hunt for interesting courses. And I don't currently have a absolute favorite. So I'm actually interested to hear if either of one of you guys have one. or I think I've touched on a number of them. I think that there's some really interesting courses for free offered by large like major universities. There's ones that are affordable from Sanford that focus on blockchain. But when I think about starting a project as a founder, those can be great background and great way to connect with people, but just don't currently have a favorite. Have you guys taken any that you thought were really remarkable? Me personally,
01:32:17
Speaker
um Generally understanding venture finance is probably one of the, like any course from any reputable school, do your two or three months in that, really going to help you. Yeah, absolutely. i't I don't do courses. I know everything. Then you need to make some courses. I'd say there we go from from that perspective, I would say, um, Read it. reading It's not really a course, but it is. Go back to somewhere like... I'm going to be biased, but go on to crypto slate because I genuinely think the way we report stuff, we only report things that are really important and maybe decrypt. I'd maybe recommend
01:33:03
Speaker
but there's so much fluff that other people report on. Like we don't, I looked at the news feeds every day um and there's so many stories that other, our competitors run that we just won't run because it's just fluff. and But if you go back through the last, last cycle and read one and just read the news for the headlines of all the stories for the last one to out from to now, that would give you so much insight into the space. Yeah, I think that that's awesome. I think I'd grab both of those if you have a lot of time on a desert island, be able to read through everything, be able to understand venture finance is really essential.
Finding Creative Inspiration
01:33:42
Speaker
um And then I would also look at something if you can grab or just something that inspires you that isn't directly necessarily Web3. So if you have a favorite
01:33:54
Speaker
you know whether it's a fantasy novel, historical fiction, whether it's an art book, something like that. Because I find that sometimes when you're laser laserfocused on a challenge or a problem or building a company, you sometimes lose touch with these other elements outside of that that would actually lead to something better. like I know I come up with my best strategies and campaigns sometimes when I'm out engaging with something else. Or even though you can't bring an art museum to a desert island, like ah art book or something that just kind of taps into another part of you that you're excited that gives you that energy to keep going. And I think sometimes we forget about that, honestly. And kind of in line with that is also something healthy. I know that's not directly a ah
01:34:39
Speaker
startup tool, but I think a lot of times we're building, building, building and focus, focus, focus. We forget to look after ourselves and you're not going to build something as great as it could be. You're not going to lead as well as you could if you're running on empty. And there's a degree of you know getting in everything that you possibly can, but I would really emphasize like a
Balancing Self-Care and Productivity
01:35:01
Speaker
little bit of balance. I mean, it's like this is so tired, but the whole self, you know, little bit of self care, whether it's like healthy eating, don't just try to exist on what was trendy for a while, like soylent, those drinks, don't just like eat protein bars, don't forget to like,
01:35:16
Speaker
you know, shower, do whatever to kind of take care of yourself because I think it's easy to get swept up in the excitement like we were talking about earlier, but bringing some sort of essential with you on this journey that makes you feel like a person who's taking care of themselves will actually go a long way and beautifully compliment all of the kind of harder strategic elements that we talked about and that behavioral science, you know, research and reading those headlines and understanding venture finance. um Make sure you're looking after yourself too, basically. One of my favorite business books is called Rest by Alex Soojong Park, and it's about not working. Oh, I love that.
01:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of it one of the most impactful books I've read. they say And it depends on all of those ideas. So it's well worth a read as well. Yeah, touch cross, as they say. Yeah, I like that a lot. So I think those are my essentials. Are there any essentials that I missed that you guys think you would take with you to the desert island? Oh, I don't usually get it turned around. Well, I need to know if I should be packing something else too. so I think like you said, I think your phone, I think like, and I think that's so much more pressing than it kind of sounds as well because 25 years ago, you wouldn't have thought that that would be like just a phone. I've seen call people like these mini computers we have are so powerful. Like it shows how, how much the world has changed. I thought it was a brilliant thing. I saw on Reddit that they were talking about like, um,
01:36:49
Speaker
Millennials think that um big purchases require big screens. So if you're going to buy like flights, it has to be on a desktop because you ah flights on a mobile phone. and Well, generations are doing that now and it's becoming more and more I think like it's not going to be the case for long. So you know, realizing you can do anything from your phone and and not limiting yourself by thinking, Oh, I need a computer for that. Yeah, I really like that. I think for me, it'd be the phones. The phones are good one.
01:37:18
Speaker
For me, it's just, it's, it's, this isn't something you can bring with you, but it's just reduce your costs as much as possible. I just, just ensure that you're, you're living as sustainable a life as possible. So when I was at the beginning of of my entrepreneurial journey, I was living in city in London, moved back home and that's just part of my story, but I'm not ashamed of it. It's just what happened when I could just about afford anything. I then moved to.
01:37:50
Speaker
much cheaper than central London, right? It just is. I think keeping an eye on lifestyle is important. To your point, Kelsey, around that you still need to have a life. And and you can get but can get pretty far in Estonia and Lisbon and countries like this on what you would spend on a night at like one dinner in London. I think people need to be conscious of that because you know, a lot of the bigger conferences are in these like city centers and um actually a lot of the building doesn't like doesn't need to happen there.
01:38:32
Speaker
I think that's something, I think it's amazing to hear Charlie saying that because um that's something that Charlie would only want to work when we first met. ah The idea of having a life outside of work wasn't something that you thought was conducive to good work. ah you Now you now you know know you're adding, and I was the same. I had my creative director, the my my company that I founded was the same. He believed in work-life balance. I just wanted his to work all the time. so me six years to realize that he was right all along. I met Charlie and the roles were reversed. And now you've seen the lights and know that rest is conducive to good work.
01:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, I, and that's great. I'm, I'm glad that you've had a transformation, Charlie. I had one too many, you know, nights where I'm just like, Oh, let me finish one more thing. Let me finish one more thing. That's three or four a.m. And you have to wake up in two hours. And after a while, just like, you know what? I'm not thinking of any interesting creative concepts on one hour of sleep, you know? So it's a really great, I think, push forward and we cannot you know continue to glorify the working 24 seven because The results just aren't as good. The hustle culture. yeah Yeah. I mean, yes, there's the whole mental, like we can argue for the mental health aspects and the worthwhile balance, but if you want to just look at it from the raw like facts, you will be more productive and you'll be better at your job but if you have some space from it. Exactly. That's not to say just about like you do have to GSD, like you have to get stuff done.
01:40:03
Speaker
That's plan. Yeah, do your stuff done, but also sleep. yeah there is There is an element sometimes of JFDI. So on that note, um Kelsey, before we we finish finish off, this is your time to talk about anything you'd like to plug. Where can people find you? Where can they learn more about shardium? The floor is yours. Thank you so
Stay Connected with Kelsey McGuire
01:40:26
Speaker
much. um So I would say shardium, shardium.org. Check that out. You can see some of the brand stuff that we've been working on and how we designed that. I think to find me, LinkedIn is actually pretty good. um Kelsey McGuire.
01:40:41
Speaker
Please send a note. I'm happy to answer people. I'm on Telegram at Hay Maguire, but please include that you heard about me from this particular conversation because there's also a lot of strange inbound messages on Telegram. as as well as i'm I'm not on Twitter X a whole lot, but I occasionally lurk. So that's another place, but you won't see a whole lot of what I have going on there, but mostly shardium.org and LinkedIn and hope to connect with you guys. We're also at a lot of different events. So if you ever see me live, please come up and have a chat. I like talking to you all.
01:41:17
Speaker
Kelsey, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I've learned a lot from this. um Remember, guys you and guys and girls, you can go onto the website and there will be a um got a tool that allows you to look at the transcript and interact with this. Basically, talk as if you are talking with us and with a special tool on the site there if you want to have a look. um Don't want to give it away in case we haven't announced it yet. um But yeah, go onto the website, check it out, um listen back, take notes. i've like i've been Before I got out of marketing, I've been in marketing for, I was in like for 15, 16 years, and I've learned a lot from this podcast episode, Kelsey. So thank you very much. I'm really up my eyes to some ideas, and which I'll be sharing with people for free because I don't have to pitch anything anymore. I sell anything. So thank you again. Charlie, you've been all right. and Until next time, guys. See you in the next one. Thanks, everyone. thank I love you really, Charlie.