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E105: Crystal Spencer
1.5k Plays4 years ago
Crystal Spencer’s body was so decomposed when it was discovered that not many answers about her death were feasible. Did she die of natural causes? As the result of foul play? Who might have wanted her dead? Explore various theories with Allison and Maggie this week as we examine the details of Crystal’s case.
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Transcript
Starting a Podcast with Buzzsprout
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuth Hounds. Have you ever considered creating your own podcast? Have you been inspired by listening to some of your favorites and thought, I'd love to try this out on my own? Whether it's a true crime podcast like ours, a motivational podcast, or maybe one filled with tips and strategies for those interested in the same activities you are?
00:00:19
Speaker
When Maggie and I first decided to start our podcast, we knew absolutely nothing about what podcasting would entail. But when we found that the platform Buzzsprout was one for which we didn't need any special equipment, just a computer microphone, some quiet space, and each other, we knew that this was the way to go. It is intuitive to use, fun to play around with, and so helpful in getting analytical data about our number of downloads to track trends,
00:00:44
Speaker
and from where our listeners hail. Best yet, Buzzsprout is affordable, even by our teacher salary standards. Buzzsprout will get your podcasts listed on every major podcasting platform. So, what are you waiting for? Fulfill that dream of yours and start today. If you use our coffee and cases referral code,
00:01:03
Speaker
709-643, linked on Facebook and in our show notes. Not only will you help support our show, but you will receive a $20 Amazon gift card after your second month on a paid plan. It's that easy. Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners. Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. Now, it's time for the world to hear what you have to say.
00:01:32
Speaker
It is time again for our podcast suggestion of the week.
Recommended Podcasts: Defense Diaries
00:01:37
Speaker
One of the most infamous serial killers in history is John Wayne Gacy. There's a new podcast that will give insight into his violent history and detailed information about his victims. If you are looking for a podcast willing to dig deep into a case and reveal details that you've never heard before,
00:02:00
Speaker
This is the podcast for you. Check out the podcast Defense Diaries, support our friends Bob and Darren, and write them a review on Apple Podcasts. Tell them Maggie and Allison sent you. Here's a little about the podcast from Bob himself.
00:02:23
Speaker
What's up, guys? I'm Bob Motta, a recovering criminal defense attorney turned podcaster, and I host the True Crime podcast, Defense Diaries, which is a serialized deep dive into some of the most prolific cases in the history of criminal jurisprudence.
00:02:38
Speaker
Now there are deep dive podcasts and there are deep dive podcasts and we are the latter. And in season one of the defense diaries, the Gacy tapes, we feature 15 hours of never before heard pre-trial interviews between Gacy and his lawyer, my dad. Intertwined into a mind blowing narrative, chalk filled with the interviews of those involved with the case, culminating with the trial of the century. So if you think you know the Gacy case,
00:03:07
Speaker
Think again, because we literally changed the narrative of the case that everyone thought that they knew. So give Defense Diaries a listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Flip through any psychology textbook, and you'll likely see a section on the bystander effect. It refers to the likelihood that seeing or hearing a situation arise, we feel compelled to intervene to address the situation.
Case Study: Kitty Genovese and the Bystander Effect
00:03:37
Speaker
For example, if a person clearly wounded and bleeding in front of us were to yell, someone call 911, what is the likelihood that we ourselves would feel compelled to call for that injured person? Well, Maggie and I would like to believe in the good in everyone and that the decision to help wouldn't be a difficult one. As it turns out, psychologically speaking, we would be wrong.
00:04:06
Speaker
as illustrated by the case of Kitty Genovese. On March 13, 1964, 28-year-old Kitty was murdered outside of her apartment building. While we now know that the originally reported 37 witnesses who failed to call the police was greatly exaggerated, there still were many who saw the initial attack and heard Kitty's pleas for help.
00:04:33
Speaker
They turned on lights, threw their heads out windows, and yelled for it to stop. They witnessed the perpetrator leave the scene. Had the police been able to respond immediately? Had someone called? Kitty might have been saved. However, as soon as the windows were again closed, the killer was able to return to the scene to rob, rape, and kill Kitty Genovese.
00:05:01
Speaker
asked why many of them didn't bother to call the police. They gave various explanations for their behavior. One man was intoxicated yet saw the murder happen. He called a friend to ask what he should do and his friend advised him to not get involved. Others assumed it was a domestic dispute and again believed it best to not intervene.
00:05:24
Speaker
As a result of the Genovese case, the bystander effect, sometimes called the Genovese Syndrome, was studied by psychologists John Darley and Bibb Latane, who found that the more witnesses present who might report a crime, the less likely one individual will feel responsible for stepping in to help. It isn't apathy that drives the behavior as much as it is the belief that someone else who knows better how to help
00:05:54
Speaker
will take charge, leaving us free of responsibility. Yet what we know now is that the single most important step in stopping wrongs perpetrated around us that we allow to continue is for an individual to finally and vocally step up, step in to act.
Mysterious Death of Crystal Spencer
00:06:17
Speaker
However, in this week's case,
00:06:20
Speaker
We have a woman whose death has been fraught with mysterious circumstances and mired with questions. Could this be another instance of the Genevieve syndrome? Or was her death natural and not the result of murder at all? These are just some of the questions we'll explore this week. This is the case of Crystal Spencer.
00:07:22
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:07:31
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the case will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page.
00:07:47
Speaker
Coffee and cases podcast and to follow us on instagram at coffee cases podcast and on tiktok at coffee and cases podcast Because as these families know conversation helps to keep their missing family member in the public consciousness Helping to keep their memories alive. So sit back sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week Maggie do you know what is almost here?
00:08:16
Speaker
Christmas. Yes, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Yes. And one final thing. The launch of Patreon. Yes, I am so excited. Me too. I'm pumped.
00:08:33
Speaker
Be on the lookout in December for our launch and be ready for all the fun stuff that Allison and I have planned. Our mini episode we recorded today, I promise you guys, Allison and I laughed so hard that I thought I was going to pee on myself and I can't wait for you guys to listen and laugh along with us. I was crying in a good way. Plus we are working on the full length episode that we will post once we get to 100 subscribers and it is a doozy.
00:09:04
Speaker
But what we do is for you guys. So if there's a popular case you'd like to hear, or like a case you would like to hear our take on or a design you'd like to see for merchandise, please let us know. Reach out to us at our email, coffeeandcasespodcastatgml.com, or you could just send us a message on Facebook and we'll get right back to you because we're honestly all ears. Yep. And speaking of ears, Maggie, are you ready for this week's episode?
00:09:32
Speaker
Not really, but let's go. It was the summer of 1982. Television shows like Cheers, Family Ties, and Knight Rider were popular on the television screens and family living rooms. Stars like Harrison Ford, Chevy Chase, and Sylvester Stallone were gracing the big screens. And Spielberg's summer hit E.T. had just been released. Which I have never seen. You are missing out.
00:10:02
Speaker
I just never it's never really appealed to me like I've never looked at it and thought I want to watch it. Oh Maggie sluess hounds can tell please tell Maggie what she is missing out on ET is so good. It's so it's just such a good movie.
Crystal Spencer's Hollywood Dream
00:10:17
Speaker
I'll make Anthony watch it with okay and
00:10:21
Speaker
In our case this week, Crystal Spencer, who was 23 at the time, was ready for her own big break. As is true of most dreamers, she looked to Hollywood. She saw the glitz. She saw the glam of those who quote unquote made it. And she focused on Los Angeles as her ticket out of her small town and out of her struggles. But Maggie,
00:10:45
Speaker
What she failed to acknowledge is just how many people are rejected. Those scraping by barely just enough to pay rent and have enough food until the next check came. Those who didn't quote unquote make it. Yeah. And her story really reminds me of a case that I covered. What was that girl's name? Uh, Beth Ellen Vincent. Yep.
00:11:08
Speaker
Same kind of thing. Yes, because it was so similar, like you wanted to make it big and all that. And those who are willing to paint a fuller picture realize instead that, you know, reality is kind of more like what Charles Dickens says in his opening line for A Tale of Two Cities. It was the best of times and it was the worst of times. Like you have to acknowledge both.
00:11:29
Speaker
However, with bright eyes and a hopeful heart, Crystal set off alone for Los Angeles, and she's 23 at the time.
00:11:40
Speaker
she's much braver than I would be yeah she well she knew that she would be someone who would make it as an actress like she could feel it in her heart that she would be a star and that's what drove her to pack up her belongings and move from her hometown of Ukiah, California
00:12:00
Speaker
with a population of only around 12,000 and drive the nearly eight hours to Los Angeles, which has a population around 9.7 million in the metropolitan area. And this was in 1982. Oh, so it's even bigger now. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. How do you go from a town of 12,000 to a town of almost 10 million?
00:12:27
Speaker
I could, I don't think if I moved to like a really big town or city like that, like I don't think I would ever really be able to learn my way around. I can't learn my way around a city with 300,000 people. Yeah, I can either. I literally use my GPS basically anytime I leave my house.
00:12:49
Speaker
Ronnie always makes fun of me and he's always like, yeah, Alison has to put an address in her GPS like 50 times before she knows how to get there on her own. And I'm like, don't mock me. Yeah. Yeah, sure do. Yeah. So I can't imagine making this move because again, I mean, that is drastic.
00:13:10
Speaker
Plus, I mean, I can imagine how easy it must have been to feel lost and feel alone in a city that vast. Yeah, for sure. But Crystal had pluck and maybe because she'd already endured so much, she was confident that she would find nothing but success.
00:13:32
Speaker
See Maggie, when Crystal was eight, she had lost her father, leaving her mother to care for her and her two siblings. And when Crystal was only 17 years old, she dropped out of high school to instead get a job to help support the running of the household. Wow. She had to grow up really fast. Right. Exactly. And I can only imagine that, you know, running through her head was this idea that, well, if my small job helps out a little,
00:14:02
Speaker
Imagine how I'd be able to help if I made the big money. Oh, yeah. Plus, I mean, I'm sure there was a little bit of the selfish desire to be looked up to and idolized that comes with being a Hollywood star. Yeah, definitely. I feel like at some point in every person's life, they want to be famous. Oh, I definitely agree with that. And she tried, Maggie. For years, Crystal attempted to become that star.
00:14:29
Speaker
However, other than booking a couple of commercials, nothing else panned out for Crystal. How long did she live there? Well, our case this week is in 1988.
00:14:44
Speaker
OK. And she moved there in 1982. OK. But other than booking a couple of commercials, I mean, that was that was pretty much it. So instead of, you know, picking out the latest designer gowns that she might don on the red carpet, Crystal was forced to find another job so she could pay rent. And while most sources say that Crystal was not proud of this job, it did pay the bills. Did she become an exotic dancer? She did.
00:15:15
Speaker
So she took a job as an exotic dancer at the Wild Goose nightclub, which is an odd name for a nightclub. Like, how is that sexy or cool at all? The Wild Goose. I don't remember where we were driving, but we passed a strip club and it was called Spearmint Rhino.
00:15:38
Speaker
So bizarre. And I was like, that's the weirdest name. Like if I was interested in finding a strip club, that would not be like, that's not a strip club. You buy gum there. Yeah. Like fruit strip gum. Yeah. It's a gum factory.
00:15:58
Speaker
They make hubba bubba in here. Yeah, like wild. I don't know. But that's where she works. And Crystal would dance topless at this nightclub to make ends meet.
00:16:09
Speaker
But accounts of how she felt about the job varied. Like some people said that she accepted the job as simply that, you know, a job where she could make money to pay her bills. But other sources stated that she felt ashamed of her job as a dancer and that she would often cry about it in addition to not opening up about her nighttime career to many people. And this particular nightclub Maggie was right by the airport.
00:16:36
Speaker
And so it seemed to have like fresh faces cycling through, you know, those who were in town on business, those trying to pass the hours waiting for a flight, like it was always new clientele coming through. And while the guaranteed pay wasn't the highest around, it was only $40 a night. That was all her wages were.
00:16:58
Speaker
Does that include like tips or no? No, that's like the baseline. But on a good night, Crystal could bring in around $400 in tips. Wow. And like on an average night, around $150. So she would often work three to four nights a week. And you know, if she works four nights a week and she gets $400, that's $1,600 a week. That's pretty good money. And we're talking in the 80s. Yeah.
Challenges in Crystal's Life
00:17:27
Speaker
Now, whether or not Crystal's job as an exotic dancer haunted her, Crystal Spencer did have other demons. According to nearly every source I read, Crystal struggled with drug and alcohol addiction. Several of Crystal's friends and her family have indicated that with Crystal gone all night and her days often filled with binge drinking and drug use,
00:17:54
Speaker
Her apartment was often in like complete disarray and it was quite filthy. And it often seemed that she kind of lost sight of that Hollywood dream and instead often lived for the moment.
00:18:12
Speaker
I mean, which living in the moment isn't necessarily a bad thing. Right. I think, and you know, we say this all the time. I'm glad when we cover cases of victims who have substance abuse issues or
00:18:31
Speaker
or mental health issues, because I think there's such a negative stigma, and I'm glad that we get the opportunity to cover their cases as well. Yeah, because I feel like their drug addiction or their mental health issues are like scapegoats a lot of the times, and I'll be like, well, they had bipolar disorder and were addicted to heroin. Right. I know, as if, yeah, somehow we can then dismiss what happened to them.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah. And it was in that state, Maggie, that Crystal often found herself. She was often depressed and she would frequently threaten suicide. So we kind of get a sense of where she is mentally, where she is along her journey of addiction. Yeah. During this time period. And all of that was until May 1987,
00:19:29
Speaker
when some friends invited Crystal to a barbecue. There would be individuals there who worked in or had connections to Hollywood and this might be her chance. Yeah, her big break. Exactly. So Crystal went and while she didn't get a Hollywood contract that night, she did meet someone she would grow very close to.
00:19:55
Speaker
a man. She got a boo. She got a boo. 37 year old Anton Klein. He was a PhD student in history and was an aspiring screenwriter.
00:20:11
Speaker
so like also interested in, you know, making it in Hollywood. Right. And both Crystal Spencer's beauty and her confidence are what attracted Anton to her. According to Anton, they quickly fell into like this loving relationship. Well good for Crystal. But there's always a but crystal
00:20:38
Speaker
didn't reveal everything to Anton. He knew about her childhood. He knew that Crystal hadn't had much experience with the, quote, finer things in life.
00:20:49
Speaker
Um, but she never revealed to him her means of paying the bills. Okay. So her days and her nights off were now filled with Anton taking Crystal to museums and classical music concerts and art galleries. That sounds so fun. It does sound so fun, but she was afraid to tell him that on the other nights, she was dancing for men at a nightclub.
00:21:18
Speaker
She was afraid he would judge and afraid he would leave her. I mean, I can't really blame her for, I mean, not solely because she's a stripper, but because like, I can't blame her for being too scared to tell this guy that she loves something that she's afraid he would leave her for, you know? Or that he might not understand. Yeah.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, so she kept her secret and lived what she must have felt was a double life. There were, according to Crystal's friends, many times that she thought about quitting the nightclub, but then like logic would stop her because how would she make ends meet then?
00:22:01
Speaker
And I'm wondering, like, if she had been honest with him, like, if he would have been like, you know, we can, that's fine, like, don't worry about it, we can work towards getting you another job, like, everything's gonna be fine. Well, and at this point, she didn't know how he would react, right? So she, like, continued playing a balancing game.
00:22:24
Speaker
But eventually she kind of had to come clean because four months into her relationship with Anton, when one of Anton's neighbors was at the wild goose and saw Crystal dancing and told Anton that he had seen Crystal there. Probably not the best way for him to find out. Rob's not. Per an account from Anton,
00:22:49
Speaker
He admitted that he was initially shocked, but that he eventually accepted it and even told Crystal that it was okay and she shouldn't be upset about it. Good job, him. Right. Anton said that after this slight bump in the road, they continued their relationship as normal. He noted that he continued to push her toward her ultimate goal of becoming an actress by doing things like
00:23:15
Speaker
encouraging her to do activities like taking acting classes and things like that. So super supportive. Right.
Last Days and Unanswered Questions
00:23:25
Speaker
It was now Maggie May 1988.
00:23:30
Speaker
Anton said that his relationship with Krystal was going well and she had been talking to him recently about a potential job opportunity through the nightclub to work as a hostess girl. I don't really know what that means. It was in quotation marks. So I'm putting it in quotation marks. A hostess girl for three months at a nightclub in Japan.
00:23:54
Speaker
That's kind of cool. Yeah. According to Anton, Crystal had been talking up the idea because like she thought it would be interesting to be immersed in a whole new culture. But I mean, at the same time, she was kind of scared of being that far away. Yeah, it makes sense. But she's brave. I mean, she moved eight hours away from home. Mm hmm. Well, and that's what I was gonna say. Like other than that move to Los Angeles, Crystal
00:24:19
Speaker
She's not really a traveler that I gathered from most of the research that I encountered. It sounded like when Crystal saw her family, they were the ones to come and visit her. Got you. In the days leading up to Crystal's death, which we think is somewhere around May 7th,
00:24:39
Speaker
Her mother, Vernadine, had come to see Crystal. And while Crystal's mother was in town still, even after she'd visited Crystal, her mom stayed in town visiting with some friends. She had told Crystal's sister, Julie, not to give Crystal the phone number of where she was staying.
00:25:03
Speaker
Why? Well, the sources didn't clarify with 100% accuracy why Vernadine didn't want Crystal to have the number, but Crystal's sister Julie said that it was because Crystal was known to be kind of overly dramatic and that she would do things like
00:25:24
Speaker
call continuously at all hours and that their mom knew that about Crystal and she didn't want to wear out her welcome because her daughter was calling at all hours.
00:25:37
Speaker
of the house where she was staying. Because remember, there are cell phones. There's just a landline. And so specifically, Julie said that if Crystal had the number, she was likely to quote, get on the phone and just ring it off the hook, end quote. That's kind of weird to me, but okay, whatever. And I don't know if that has to do with her mental state, if it has to do with her addiction.
00:26:05
Speaker
Or what? Yeah, it's really random. And I feel like wouldn't her boyfriend have voiced the same thing? Right. And I never saw that he said anything like that. So their mother said for Julie to only give Crystal the phone number if it was an emergency. Well, on May 5th, 1988, Crystal felt like there was one.
00:26:31
Speaker
Per Anton, Crystal had come down with the flu on May 4th. He said he had stopped by to see Crystal at her apartment and that she had talked about how sick she was feeling and they'd also talked more about like that hostess job in Japan. So that was basically the content of their conversations, how sick she was feeling and this potential job in Japan. He said that he brought her milk, eggs and orange juice
00:27:02
Speaker
And that, per an interview with David Farrell with the LA Times, when Anton left around midnight though, quote, she was active running around the apartment making coffee, end quote. That's kind of weird to me.
00:27:19
Speaker
Is she like super sick and then all of a sudden super not sick? See, yeah, it seems kind of weird. Yeah, because she's feeling better. Right. And so I guess he kind of got the feeling like, okay, she's feeling under the weather, but it's not bad, bad. Anton said that he spoke with her again on May 5th and that she both verbally stated and sounded as if she were feeling better.
00:27:50
Speaker
He recalled that they spoke for about 15 minutes. Okay. But in quite the opposite fashion, Crystal's sister Julie also received a call on May 5th from Crystal. But in that phone call, Crystal was saying just how sick she was with the flu and that because of that, she needed their mom's number of where she was staying. So I wonder if she's like,
00:28:15
Speaker
trying to act like she's feeling better for her boyfriend's sake or if she's acting like she feels worse or like the tension maybe. Well, and that's kind of what her sister thought because her sister was like, this is not, this is not a real emergency. You know,
00:28:34
Speaker
Cause she's like, oh, I feel sick. I need mom's number, you know? And so I can't really blame Julie for not giving the number, but she, so Julie refused to give Crystal the phone number. Okay. I can't blame her really though. Honestly, I can't either. The next detail we have about Crystal isn't until three days later on May 8th, Anton said that he tried to call Crystal, but he kept getting a busy signal.
00:29:01
Speaker
Okay, but I feel like should he not know the phone's off the hook? Like that was a telltale sign before cell phones that your person's phone was off the hook if you got a busy signal.
00:29:13
Speaker
Well, and yeah, well, but remember, she's kind of prone to continually calling people at all hours. OK, yeah. So most people did agree, though, with you, Maggie, that getting a busy signal and trying to call Crystal was not unusual. So either she was calling and calling and calling people at all hours or Crystal was known to often think that she hung up the phone only for it to be like slightly off of the receiver and not fully hung up.
00:29:43
Speaker
Okay, I can't really judge her because my school phone is so finicky and I do that at least once a day. Hey, at least you avoid the calls. Right. So Anton continued trying to call until eventually he called the operator to ask if Crystal were on the phone or if the phone were off the hook. And I've never heard of such a thing before. Yeah, I didn't know that an operator could tell that.
00:30:11
Speaker
I mean, I didn't even know you could still call the operator. Well, well, this is in the 80s. So that's our only way. But I actually looked it up. And sure enough, the operator could tell. I know. So the operator told Anton that the phone was off the hook. But Anton didn't go over to her apartment to check on her. Anton. I know.
00:30:36
Speaker
Instead, he reported that he went to the nightclub to see if Crystal were there. Anton said that- Yeah, because that's where you would go if you had influenza, carry on. I know. So he said that when he asked about Crystal, that one manager told him that she hadn't been there for a couple of days, but that the doorman told Anton that he was fairly certain that Crystal had left to go to Japan. No, no, no. I don't want to leave that room again. Yeah, and Anton said-
00:31:06
Speaker
Oh, and Anton said that after hearing that, he felt crushed that Crystal would leave, like leave him for that long without saying goodbye first, and then just kind of went home. I don't think that she would leave without telling him goodbye. I don't think that she would either. So days go by without anyone seeing or hearing from Crystal until Friday, May 13th, 1988.
Discovery and Investigation of Crystal's Death
00:31:34
Speaker
when law enforcement from the Burbank Police Department reported to Crystal's apartment complex to investigate a smell coming from her apartment. When police entered, because of the messiness of her place, remember I mentioned that?
00:31:53
Speaker
Like it was just in a state of disarray. Yeah, they couldn't tell if the place were just messy like this all the time or if someone had come in and ransacked the place. That's probably what they would think if they walked in my home as well. I mean mine too. But what they were able to identify was the fact that the foul odor had been coming from a decomposed body found in a corner.
00:32:19
Speaker
Anton said he received a call from the Burbank police on that Friday letting him know that 29 year old Crystal had been found dead in her apartment and that she'd likely been dead for around a week at the time She was discovered putting her death sometime around May 7th. So I'm assuming since we're talking about her case that she didn't die from like complications with the flu well
00:32:50
Speaker
That's kind of what the medical examiner rules. Lord, is that one medical examiner do? No, it's not Fami Malek. Yeah, that's a different one.
00:33:01
Speaker
So Anton admitted that he was immediately questioned, right? Because he was the last who had seen or spoken to Crystal that they knew. And so they're like asking him questions. Like, when was that? When can we know for sure she was alive? He told them about going over to her place on the 4th.
00:33:23
Speaker
and calling her on the fifth, and he told them that she had been feeling sick and that she believed that she had the flu. He said that law enforcement told him that they believed Crystal had died from natural causes. Now, while it is true that around 35,000 people die each year from flu-related deaths,
00:33:46
Speaker
The details Anton later provided, along with the specifics of how Krystal was found, make this quote-unquote natural causes ruling feel a little bit off. But the autopsy reportedly showed no signs of trauma, no, like,
00:34:09
Speaker
wounds from a weapon, no signs of rape, and also no signs of drugs or even aspirin in her system. Okay that's what my next question was going to be if she could have overdosed but never mind. Well I'm going to come back to that detail too because I think that's a bit odd.
00:34:28
Speaker
But I honestly believe that her death was ruled as a result of natural causes, mostly because her body was in such an advanced state of decomposition that they couldn't determine a cause of death. Yeah. Like I'm wondering how long are you decomposing like before you get to the point that you smell so bad, your neighbors start to call. Well,
00:34:57
Speaker
I mean, at least with her, we know roughly a week. And with this decomposition, though, Maggie, according to the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology, cause of death is actually unknown or undetermined even after a complete autopsy and roughly 5% of cases.
00:35:17
Speaker
In Crystal's case, her body was so deteriorated that one source said that not even her race was discernible. Wow. But here's what's weird, Maggie. Crystal was found in a corner of her apartment, right? She was nude from the waist down. That is weird. Why would you be walking around only naked from the waist down?
00:35:46
Speaker
Right. And die of natural causes. Yeah, in the corner of your kitchen. Right. The phone that had been off the hook for days now, the cord was found wrapped, wound around her body. So like how could those things be explained by quote unquote natural causes? I mean, unless she's like the one case that we covered where people thought she was doing that to herself.
00:36:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah, like Cindy James. Yeah. Well, after police began speaking with others in the building, a clearer narrative began to emerge, especially when two neighbors reported hearing odd sounds on or around the night of May 7th, the night that we assume Crystal died.
00:36:33
Speaker
The two individuals lived below Crystal. They were former Miss America, Susan Aiken, and her boyfriend, Jet Taylor. There she is, Miss America. Miss America. And this is the detail Maggie that made me think of the Kitty Genovese case that I mentioned in the opening, of like people hearing things or seeing things, but not taking action. They said that around four in the morning, the two were woken, well,
00:37:03
Speaker
First, Susan was awoken, but they heard strange noises that reminded them of wailing, that were coming from the direction of Crystal's apartment. That's weird. Susan woke to the sounds first, and just like I would have done, she then woke up Jet, so he could hear them also. Right? Like, tell me I'm not crazy, you're hearing these too.
00:37:27
Speaker
Jett noted to police that he first thought it was some kind of like sexual situation, like S&M, sadomasochism, you know, I don't understand that, but that's what they thought it was at first. I've heard that, not that I really know what it is, but you know. And so they just kind of decided to let it go. But Susan thought it was something different. To her, it sounded like the sounds of torture.
00:37:54
Speaker
She actually detailed that it was almost rhythmic-like. Like kind of, this is what Susan kind of imagined, like someone was having a lit cigarette repeatedly held to her body. And the two heard other sounds too, Maggie, like choking and moaning. Okay, listen.
00:38:21
Speaker
actually know that I've ever told you this story but Anthony and I okay I went outside one day and there was a dog just like randomly came up to me because I am apparently the animal whisperer and all the stray and abandoned animals in my neighborhood come to my house because they know I'm a sucker and we'll take them in and feed them and find them homes anyways
00:38:43
Speaker
So this dog came up to me and he was really friendly, like immediately licked me, which I thought was kind of weird, but he had a collar on. So I promise this fits in with this. So I was like, Oh, okay. He's got a collar and it had like his address on and it was like two streets down from where we live. So I called Anthony. He was in the basement and I said, Hey, bring up the leash. Let's walk this dog back. Well, we walked the dog back and there the house front door was literally wide open.
00:39:13
Speaker
like wide open and I could see like we were like hello we have your dog hello like rang the doorbell nothing yeah and I could see like there was another dog inside and like it was like alerted at something with like its foot up and like staring at a corner in like where we couldn't see like it was like a round corner
00:39:36
Speaker
I'm freaking out. Yes. And like so we just like put the dog in their house and like shut the door. And like we walked back home and I was like I think I'm going to call the sheriff to do a welfare check because they can have like maybe they slip and fail and they have like a baby you know like anything.
00:39:58
Speaker
And so I did, I called the sheriff and they did a welfare check. And they actually were really great. They called me back like two times to ask me questions. If we knew who they were, like where they could have possibly been, where their cars in the driveway when we were there, like a bunch of different questions. And then they were like, if we don't get it resolved, we'll call you back. And then they never did. So I'm assuming they figured out what happened. Wow. Yeah. But good for you for calling.
00:40:24
Speaker
So call people call. Yeah. I was like, I would want someone to do that for me. Right. Well, and that's, you know, in hindsight, Susan and Jed, I mean, now they say like, obviously they wish that they had called the police, but at the time they decided it was just probably best not to get involved. Yeah. But again, like none of that sounds like quote unquote natural causes to me. No. Like you're not going to hear sounds like that.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, unless she's watching a really disturbing movie. Right.
00:40:57
Speaker
According to an article in the LA Times, that one that I mentioned earlier by David Farrell in 1992, Burbank's detective Kevin Kraft stated, quote, believe me, I'd love nothing more than to have somebody make a ruling as to the cause of death on this. In this instance, the coroner's office was not able to say that it was or was not a homicide. We don't know why she died, end quote.
00:41:26
Speaker
Which I think is even like more disturbing because you're left with the what if. And there's gonna be even more questions. You just wait till you hear this part Maggie. Then there was the viewing of the body and the autopsy. Crystal's family repeatedly asked to view the body but they were continually denied the ability to do so with the coroner's office noting you know quite honestly that her body really wasn't in any condition to be seen by the family and Maggie we have seen that before.
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah, but I feel like, I mean, I understand both sides, right? Like no, you don't want that to be the last memory that, yeah, a family member has, but then like with the family too, like that's my person. Like you can't tell me if I can or cannot see my person. If I can't handle it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:19
Speaker
And Anton said that then, after they were denied seeing the body, he and Crystal's family requested police records and that they were denied those as well. Well, that's weird, especially she died of natural causes. Anton was finally, in September 1988, able to get his hands on a copy of the autopsy though. And he didn't quite know what to make of what he saw.
00:42:47
Speaker
First, the autopsy showed no traces of drugs or alcohol in Crystal's system. And I'm not saying that that can't be true because it obviously can, but that did seem odd knowing Crystal's addictions. Like had she gone, like had she stopped using because she was like in this happy healthy relationship and like things were looking up.
00:43:12
Speaker
I didn't read one way or the other, but I don't think the kind of addictions that she had well I know, and this is crazy to me but like with alcohol you can't stop cold turkey. Yeah, because you could literally die. And so weird though, and I just thought of this.
00:43:32
Speaker
is how would she not have like aspirin or cold medicine or cough syrup or Tylenol? Cause she had the flu. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. Because she didn't even have an aspirin in her system. And Anton says like, I know that she had been taking aspirin for her flu symptoms. So how does this autopsy not even show aspirin? How long does that leave your body? Or like how fast does that leave your body?
00:44:01
Speaker
The aspirin, I would think that whatever's in your bloodstream, once your blood stops flowing, it would stay there. It just stays there. I would think. That's weird. Even though Crystal stood only five foot tall and weighed barely over a hundred pounds, the autopsy had her listed at five foot seven and weighing and quote, well nourished 140 pounds. So like neither of those matched.
00:44:31
Speaker
What could she possibly have weighed more because she was bloated with decomposition? Well, they're going to give an attempt to give an explanation that I'll tell you about here in just a second for the discrepancy, but I don't know. The weight, I think I can understand the explanation more than the height discrepancy. Yeah, that's weird. But another oddity is that even though they had done a full body X-ray,
00:45:03
Speaker
that the report said nothing about the metal pins and plates that Crystal had in her ankle from a previous reconstructive surgery. Like it didn't even note that that was found in the x-ray. So how could so many things be wrong? Like were they performing the autopsy on the correct person?
00:45:28
Speaker
And that's what Anton thought, Maggie. He became like convinced that this wasn't even Crystal's body at all. Yeah, she grew seven inches. Right, you don't do that. Exactly. So in an attempt to explain, Deputy District Attorney Robert Cohen said that the weight and height differences, first of all, could have been clerical errors. Yeah, just, you know, mistalking something.
00:45:55
Speaker
or due to other reasons. According to retired coroner investigator Kitching, body weight can be miscalculated if the worker forgets to account for the weight of the gurney, for example, because that can alter weight by 40 to 50 pounds. So that's why I said, okay, I get the weight discrepancy if you forgot to subtract the weight of the gurney.
00:46:22
Speaker
But he said that height is sometimes, quote, just a guess, end quote. Like so they don't own like a tape measure. Like what?
00:46:35
Speaker
That seems crucial information, especially I don't know. And he said it could be thrown off by something even as small as like the toes being pointed versus like not by seven inches. I know. So, yeah, I'm not so happy with the explanation.
00:46:56
Speaker
But Deputy District Attorney Cohen assured Anton that the body was indeed crystals because while they hadn't verified their dental records, they had surgically removed crystals fingertips and sent them to a lab to verify fingerprints, which is how they identified the remains as crystal Spencer's.
Questioning the Ruling of Natural Causes
00:47:19
Speaker
Oh yeah. So while law enforcement stand by their claim of natural causes,
00:47:26
Speaker
Anton and, according to him, Crystal's family believed that her death was a result of foul play. In fact, Anton claimed that one officer said to him over the phone, this is what Anton claims, that an officer said, quote, bad things happen to bad girls. And Anton said, he replied, do you mean bad girls die of natural causes? And the cop responded with, quote, you know what I mean.
00:47:57
Speaker
end quote. I would have been like, no, I don't. I know. Why don't you explain it to me? Yeah. So now Anton wonders if something were being covered up. And that's why the investigation into Crystal's death was like shoddy police work, according to him. Because as proof of a poor investigation,
00:48:17
Speaker
Anton pointed out that in Crystal's apartment, there was a camera in plain sight that had a roll of undeveloped film in it. And Anton knew about the camera because on that day that he had come over to Crystal's apartment on May 4th when they had talked and he brought her like the milk and the eggs and the orange juice, he said that she had taken several photos of the two of them in her apartment. And so Anton wondered like if this camera could hold a clue
00:48:47
Speaker
So he went to have the film developed. And he said that when he did, he found the pictures of him and Crystal goofing off, right? Those were like the first eight. But the ninth picture showed a man that Anton had never seen before. And he was sitting in Crystal's apartment.
00:49:06
Speaker
So Anton basically took the investigation into his own hands. Like he was somehow able to get Crystal's phone records and he called people one by one until he was finally able to identify this man in the photo and give police the tip to his identity. But when that man was later investigated and interrogated by law enforcement, he was cleared.
00:49:29
Speaker
And Anton no longer feels that that man was, was the one responsible, but he wonders how law enforcement didn't find that clue themselves. Well, if he believes he's not responsible, I will also believe that. But yes, how did they not? How did they not do that? But okay. Right. I digress. Only two weeks after Crystal's body was found, Anton joined Crystal's family and other friends for a small memorial.
00:49:59
Speaker
after which they scattered Crystal's ashes underneath the Hollywood sign. But if Crystal Spencer did not die of natural causes, then by what means, and at whose hand still has to be determined. But there are a few theories. Okay, so before you get into the theories, as my friend,
00:50:24
Speaker
If I die before Anthony, do not let him cremate me. That scares me. I know I'll be dead. I know I won't know, but I will know and I will haunt you all. Do not. I'm, I'm with you on the cremation. Like I, nope. Don't want to burn in my afterlife. Right. Don't want to burn in my death. Yeah, exactly. So let's talk about some of these series, Maggie. Okay.
00:50:54
Speaker
First, let's briefly acknowledge the possibility that she did die of natural causes. Okay. Other than saying that it's natural causes from the flu. That's about all I've got. And what's, I think what's hard with this theory for me is the idea that number one, she was, according to Anton, running around her apartment. So like not ill enough to die from the flu.
00:51:23
Speaker
and her sister didn't even think it was an emergency to give the phone number. Exactly. So I don't know how your health declined that quickly. Yeah. And number two, if she did get that sick that quickly, why didn't she call Anton or somebody else? Or 911. Or 911. So that's why I'm not feeling the natural causes. Especially because if she can be what they said overly dramatic, I feel like if she got the least little bit
00:51:52
Speaker
more ill. She would be calling everybody. Yeah. Saying how sick she is. Yeah. So I'm not feeling that one. No. Second, rumors have circulated that Anton himself could be at fault. Nah, I want to lie. Well, let me tell you why people believe this theory. Okay. Those who believe this theory would argue that he was the only one who would profit from her death.
00:52:21
Speaker
because of the news interviews and the coverage of her death and this desire to interview the distraught, loving boyfriend. So they're basically seeing him as somebody who is using her death as an opportunity to gain recognition for himself. Those who follow the theory also have a barrage of questions concerning Anton's activity after the last time he saw her or I guess spoke with her on May 5th.
00:52:51
Speaker
So when he heard that Crystal's phone was off the hook, why didn't he go to her apartment to see her? Yeah, that was a question that I initially had as well. Like if you're trying to get up with her and she lives within, you know, a distance that you could reasonably drive and you know, she's sick, like why wouldn't you go over there? Right. Yeah. Like why did he go to the nightclub instead? That makes no sense. Also, unless maybe he thought like she left the phone off the hook and was at work. Maybe.
00:53:20
Speaker
But also, they question the length of time before he even called. Because if you know your girlfriend is sick, right, even if she is, as you report, feeling better, you're gonna wait three days before you call her again? I talked to Anthony every single day when we were dating, even if it was just for like 15 minutes. We talked every day. Absolutely. Yeah. And so he went from May 5th to not calling her again until May 8th.
00:53:49
Speaker
And also if I would have been crystal, if my boyfriend hadn't called me in that many days, then I would have turned into a psycho and constantly called him. And when told that she wasn't at work and that no one had seen her, that they think she may have gone to Japan, like there's no follow up. You don't just think somebody left and you're like, well, oh, well, like, and when they know that, like when her past, like when they have a record of her getting on like an airplane.
00:54:18
Speaker
Exactly. One quote unquote friend, and I'm only giving you this information. It was, I read it in comments of an article of someone who said that they were Crystal's friend, argued that he didn't believe any of their relationship was even real. Like he found it hard to believe that
00:54:44
Speaker
this sophisticated PhD candidate and screenwriter would fall in love with a high school dropout and addict.
00:54:52
Speaker
whose life was filled with chaos and disarray. I don't believe that. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I'm with you on that one. Love is blind. Exactly. Yeah. And this friend also, though, claimed that Crystal never hated her job as a dancer. In fact, that she loved it. Well, she made bank. And they wonder whether it was actually Anton who hated the job.
00:55:17
Speaker
I mean, like you, Maggie, I'm not willing to go that far. Like, I feel like your heart falls in love and that differences of background and lifestyle don't always play a role. Yeah, agreed. And I'm also not willing to go as far to assume that even if Anton hated the fact that Krystal was an exotic dancer, that he would do something to hurt her as a result. I feel like he would help her find another job, not be like, my girlfriend's an exotic dancer, I must murder her.
00:55:46
Speaker
Exactly. And it was Anton who pushed police to consider foul play instead of immediately ruling Crystal's death as a result of natural causes. Yeah, because then if it was him, I feel like he'd be like, okay, she died of the flu. Bye. Right. Exactly. Oh, oh, okay. Natural causes. All right. Well, yep. My sister, the family and move on. Yeah. And in that David Farrell, LA times article that I mentioned a couple of times earlier, he notes
00:56:16
Speaker
that law enforcement found a journal entry of crystals that said, quote, I feel stuck. I'm going to get unstuck. God guide me. Get me out of the wild goose by the end of May, end quote. And that doesn't sound like someone who loved her job to me. No, me either. So with all of that said, I mean, I do think that some of their questions were valid ones, but I'm not convinced
00:56:46
Speaker
that it was Anton. Yeah. I mean, the questions got me thinking, not going to lie, but I want to like him. Yeah, I know. So let me tell you the third theory. Okay. Anton has focused the blame on various people and organizations, everything from the Japanese mafia to a jolted lover to likely his most accepted theory.
00:57:13
Speaker
that Crystal's death had something to do with her associations with a highway patrol officer named Horace Mack McKenna. Word on the street was that Mack owned several topless bars, including the wild goose where Crystal worked, and that he often used the dancers and strippers who worked for him to entertain other officer friends,
00:57:39
Speaker
in addition to using them as entertainment at an illegally run casino.
00:57:45
Speaker
Well, huh. And the root of this theory comes from the fact that after Crystal's death, the family discovered that the FBI had a file on Crystal. Wow. So then, of course, I'm Googling, like, why might the FBI have a file on you? And not only, Maggie, did I discover that you can actually check to see if they have one on you under the Freedom of Information Act.
00:58:15
Speaker
Well, I feel like they don't because on me or Anthony, because we were cleared to tour the FBI and they do like extensive background checks before you can go there. I gotcha. But it did, it did say that if you have a file, it could include information like if you have, if you're employed by the federal government, if you have a military record, if you have any arrests.
00:58:38
Speaker
if you've ever been involved in an investigation and things like that. And so since Crystal had a file, Anton wondered whether she had been giving law enforcement information about max activities.
00:58:54
Speaker
Oh, like an informant. Exactly. And that her death was a form of retaliation after Mackey found out. So Anton's focus seems even more interesting when combined with Jett Taylor's statement. Remember, he's the boyfriend of Miss America.
00:59:13
Speaker
that he made on unsolved mysteries. And he said that the officer who was taking his statement, and again, an officer, so somebody who could potentially have been linked in Anton's eyes with Mac, right? Here's what Jett said, that he just, quote, took my statement and my name, asked me for my driver's license, and that was it. He was just very nonchalant about it, end quote. That's weird.
00:59:43
Speaker
And of course, none of Anton's suspicions have been confirmed. And we also can't ask Mack because soon after he found out that his activities were being investigated, there was a hit put out on him by his business partner and he was shot outside of his home in March of 1989. Okay, so what is your gut telling you, Maggie? Door number three. Yeah.
01:00:13
Speaker
I think I'm with you on that one. And I think like the torture part makes sense if it's like a hit and form and thing.
The Importance of Intervention
01:00:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. If there's something I've learned by being a teacher, it's that sometimes showing you care means making decisions that will anger others. Sometimes showing concern means putting our nose into issues where we might not feel it's any of our business.
01:00:43
Speaker
Sometimes showing compassion means not just accepting the easy answers. Instead, it's pressing again and again for answers until we force others to really examine every detail. While we don't know whether Crystal Spencer died of natural causes or the result of homicide, she and her family deserve for us to press for answers and to push
01:01:11
Speaker
until we can answer with more assurance. Let's not be the textbook passive bystanders we saw with Kitty Genovese. You've now heard Crystal's story. Now it's your job to go out and talk about it.
01:01:29
Speaker
Again, please like and join us on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and to see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Instagram at Coffee Cases podcast and on TikTok at Coffee and Cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to Coffee and Cases podcast at gmail.com.
01:01:50
Speaker
Please tell your friends about our podcast so that more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to write our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon. Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.