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Bring Your Own....Addicted Series Deep Dive (Part 2) | S1Ep5
301 Plays3 years ago
Part two of our deep-dive into the #Booktok favorite Addicted/Calloway Sisters Series series by Krista and Becca Ritchie. We’ll be covering the remaining five books in the series: Thrive, Addicted After All, Fuel the Fire, Long Way Down, & Some Kind of Perfect. Follow us on instagram @BringYourOwnPod to keep up on all things happening with the pod!
Time Stamps:
Thrive:07:39
Addicted After All: 33:38
Fuel the Fire 50:09
Long Way Down: 1:11:33
Some Kind Of Perfect:1:31:35
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Transcript
Introduction and Series Overview
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey guys, to bring your own and catch all most of the time bookish podcast. I'm Brandi. I'm Kendra. I'm Kayla. And today we are doing part two of our Addicted Callaway sisters deep dive. So if you have not listened to episode one,
00:00:24
Speaker
You should go back and listen to that and we'll see you in approximately 10 to 12 business days because that episode is fucking long. So long. But yeah, today we are picking up with Thrive and going all the way through some kind of perfect. But before we do that, what are you guys drinking?
Current Reads and Recommendations
00:00:39
Speaker
What are you reading? Kayla, why don't you start? Sure. I will go first. I'm having a Moscow meal.
00:00:45
Speaker
Can you guys hear that? Having a mask on the old tonight because it's 8 40 where I live so I'm having that and then when I'm reading I just actually finished a book. I just finished A Love Wager by Lynn Painter but I listened on audio. It's Zachary Weber
00:01:06
Speaker
And I apologize to the female narrator whose name I don't remember, but she also really good. Oh, it was not Kelly Dalton. I'm so fucking dope. I was like, no, it's not Kelly Dalton because I'm actually, it's okay. I'm actually not Kelly Dalton's biggest fan.
00:01:24
Speaker
But I think it's like Kristen something, but she was really good. The book itself, I actually really enjoyed. I thought it was super cute. I had not read Lynn Painter before, but I know that people really love her. I know they really love like better than the movies. And she's also a Midwestern girly. So that was fun. And it's just, it was super cute. It's a fake dating storyline, right? So it's about these people who actually meet at a wedding. She's a bartender.
00:01:54
Speaker
He's in the wedding party. They have a one night stand together, but they actually agree that they're just gonna be like friends, not even friends with benefits, just straight friends. And they're actually gonna help each other find love essentially. So they try and help each other find their like soulmate essentially. And they become really good friends. And then obviously through that, you know, feelings develop. Yeah, they fall in love. And then at like towards like the end, he like agrees to be here fake date.
00:02:22
Speaker
for a wedding, another wedding that she's attending. And so then that's really when things come true. It's on the back of the book. It is literally on the back of the book. So it's really good. I looked it up. The narrator's name is Kristen D. Mercurio. Okay, that's right. Kristen. Zachary Weber, our king. Yeah. Yes, Zachary Weber. And it was so cute. Highly recommend the audiobook. I definitely think that this is one where
00:02:47
Speaker
I think I enjoyed it more on audio than I would have if I had read it. There's also like a lot of text messages that they exchange and they're each read in the respective narrator's voice. So even if the chapter is in the girl's POV, they're read in the male or the female voice for each one. So that was really cool. What about you Kendra? I also just finished
00:03:11
Speaker
uh two books recently so i finished this book called that kind of guy by and now i'm forgetting the author's name oh stephanie archer it used to have it was some kind of guy no it's that kind of guy oh okay um by stephanie archer it used to have the world's ugliest cover you probably used to see it on your on your kindle as an ad um the ugliest cover but the story was really cute it kind of it's like slapstick happy
00:03:36
Speaker
It kind of gave me like hallmark vibes, but it was short to the point, fake dating. I loved it. And I also just finished listening to a book I had already read previously back in 2017 called The Light We Lost by Jill Centipolo, who I love. Jill Centipolo, she actually just had another book come out that I need to read.
00:03:55
Speaker
And The Light We Lost is just a beautiful love story that is also a tragedy. And I love that book so much. I was describing it to Kayla and Brandi earlier. Kayla said that I had no taste and that she would never read something like that. I did not say that. I said, it's a no for me. But I will never read that book in my life. Never. For them saying that it translated to Kendra, you have no taste. How dare you even read something like that? Yeah, that's exactly it. Well, don't speak for me.
00:04:24
Speaker
But sure. I get every book recommendation from Kendra. It has a trope that Kayla just detests, which rightfully so. But I love reading about it. I love messy people. Jill Santopolo writes about messy, rich, white women living in New York City. And if you just want to completely shut your brain off and go live in a very soap opera world, Jill Santopolo is your girl and her writing is beautiful.
00:04:50
Speaker
um i'm also drinking a pasta moscato tonight that i got from this total wine in my house so let's see how how on track i stay uh this episode you can do it yeah this is my second mosca meal so if i start to sound a little bit crazy then it's fine the last time that i got drunk i had like four if i could show the videos that i have her husband had to start texting me because she was too inebriated to text me herself
00:05:17
Speaker
It was bad. It happens. It happens to the best of us. Cool. I am currently, I actually just started the audiobook for Forget Me Not by Julie Soto, which I know Kayla was reading last week. Yeah. So she already talked about that one. So curious. So curious to hear your thoughts on that one. So that one is Callie Dalton and Teddy Hamilton. I don't mind Callie Dalton. I really don't mind her. But we'll see. I literally, I'm only a chapter in. So I will see.
00:05:47
Speaker
Uh, and I am currently reading The Front Runner, which is book three in the Elsie Silvers Gold Rush Ranch series, which is, it's been fun, having a good time. Amazing. Yeah, that one is, oh god, Kendra just showed the cover for what that kind of guy used to look like. It looks so bad, right? But now, it looks beautiful. It's so cute. That is so cute. That is so cute. And the writing is really good. So if you want something quick, easy, I would recommend it. It's on KU, isn't it?
00:06:18
Speaker
Hey, Randy, what are you drinking? Oh, I'm having a sun drift sparkling water. A what? A sun drift? A sun drift sparkling water lemon flavored. I'm addicted. Sun drift? Or did you say? Oh, yeah, sorry. I can't read. Wait, that is like, what's that effect called where you think you know something? Mandela effect? Yes, I swear on my life, I've been calling the sun drift my whole life.
00:06:46
Speaker
Christ. Wow. I usually drink La Croix, so I, that's... And I would say your whole life, it's only been out for a few years. I think Spindrift is like, maybe not... For all of Spindrift's life, I'm just saying words. Okay. Yeah. But anyways, we wanted to keep our intro pretty brief because we know that last episode was long. We're going to try and move through this one at a brisk pace, but like we said earlier,
00:07:11
Speaker
We love these books so, so much. So we'll do what we can, but we're making no promises. Before this episode, I was like, before we started recording, I was thinking about the books that we're going to go through. And I was just thinking we could literally, if we wanted to, we won't, but if we wanted to dedicate an entire episode to some kind of perfect, because there's just so many things we could talk about in that book, but we will keep it brief for your sake. We'll do our best.
Deep Dive into 'Thrive'
00:07:37
Speaker
So we ended last episode with talking about Hot House Flower and Kiss the Sky and Hot House Flower. We're the last two ones that we talked about the last episode. So we're going to start with Thrive with this episode. And if you are unfamiliar with the Addicta Callaway sister series, this is going to be riddled with spoilers, this whole episode. So if you're somebody like me who loves a good spoiler, stick around. Otherwise, maybe come back after you've read them. But Thrive takes place over the same timeline
00:08:04
Speaker
as Kiss the Sky and Todd Houseflower, but it's from Lily and Lo's perspective. So Thrive spans two years from Lily and Lo's perspectives. Yeah. And you know, a lot of people actually skip Thrive. Which is absolutely insane. It makes me sick to my stomach. And we talked about this last episode. We were like, stick to the recommended reading order. But yeah, so many people, they will skip Thrive because they're just like, why would I want to read about the same events? Which like, I get that fair. Sometimes they add nothing.
00:08:30
Speaker
But in this book, I feel like they're there. I don't know. I think it's half and half. Some of the scenes in this book, I'm like, we could have done without a lot of them. I'm like, like this. Yeah, it adds a lot of context.
00:08:42
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes the twins though would skip over something that I really wanted to see. And I'm like, why didn't we get that from Lillian Lowe's point of view? It covers a lot of time, this book. And so they're like trying to in all the chapters start with like, how many years or how many months or whatever.
00:09:01
Speaker
this book yeah like Brandy said in the beginning it covers like two years worth of events so it's a lot to get through because a lot happens within those two years right like it's covering all of the reality show it's covering the in between from the reality show to hot house flower and then all of hot house flower as well so it's covering a lot of stuff um the first thing that jumps out to me i just want to point it out in the when i was going through this book again right before this episode
00:09:29
Speaker
In chapter two, there's a quote that I had highlighted where Lo says to Lily, I don't want to live if you're not living with me. And do you know what the first thing, Kendra, what's the first thing that you can't do? It's not living, it's not waiting.
00:09:44
Speaker
I was like, is this where Maddie Healy got his inspiration for that iconic song? And I was like, yeah, you know, addicts see addicts. Come on now. Okay, before we go, I do want to rewind because literally page 15 punched me in the gut, because there's a part where low turns
00:10:08
Speaker
She said, I remember his words so clearly, this isn't working, Lily. He said, his eyes bloodshot. They were crying. And she thinks he's going to say we should break up. And they're just like laying there, this like, so broken, like, they're both in recovery. And it's just so fucking hard. And it's like, it's going bad. So two hours later, sunken with this immeasurable grief that just can't be explained, he whispered, be with me.
00:10:31
Speaker
And this is part of the reason a lot of people have beef with this book is because Lo says, no more rules, fuck the list. You're strong enough to handle sex when I'm aroused and maybe even in public too, which were things that were not on the list. They throw out the list that was recommended by the therapist in this book. And a lot of people are like, Lo's enabling Lily, Lo's enabling Lily. And you know what?
00:10:55
Speaker
maybe a little bit, but they're human and they're flawed. And I think that's a beautiful part about this book, like recovery for any addiction is not going to be clean. It's not going to be. It's not a straight line. Exactly. So but that chapter, I keep saying chapter, but page 15, I was like, Oh, yeah, a lot of this book deals with the fact that they basically have relapses, each of them in their addictions,
00:11:20
Speaker
And essentially the downfall of that because they had been doing quote unquote well for such a long time, but it's like Randy just said, it's recovery is not a straight line. It doesn't happen the same way for everybody. And so it, you see this book, they're starting to essentially spiral. And so Lowe is trying to help her in the way that like he knows how.
00:11:42
Speaker
which is trying to give her back control and that is, you know, it can be a mistake. I was still disappointed. Like I was disappointed though, because you coming on with Kiss the Sky and Hot House Flower, like the only thing that I knew going into Thrive was that Lo was going to relapse again, because we're told that in Hot House Flower, but I wasn't expecting the list to be thrown out. Like I was very like,
00:12:07
Speaker
uh disappointing because this came up in Kiss the Sky like there was a big conversation about like whether or not Lillian Lowe were like following like wasn't it like with them following the rules it was something with with their sex lives and they they lied essentially and I felt I felt just very awful to be honest but that but that leads me to this other part that I have highlighted where like somebody walks in on Lillian Lowe I can't even remember exactly the context but Poppy said
00:12:33
Speaker
You both realize they have no privacy outside and inside their relationship, right? They're this huge public spectacle now. They're on a reality show. They're famous because they're just like rich people or whatever.
00:12:45
Speaker
But on top of that, everybody is hyper-analyzing their relationship at all times because they want them to be healthy, right? It's out of love, but it's still like, imagine, like I can't. Like somebody knowing the details of your sex life and your like every move, like your siblings watching that stuff and being like, no, you're having sex too much. Or you're doing that, like, oh my God, I can't imagine.
00:13:07
Speaker
Yeah, I was I was really torn with this one because like Kendra said like obviously I was very disappointed because like you it hurts like you don't you don't want to see them going to bat these like back into these bad habits, right? Like you want them to get better. So it is it's disappointing, but it's you can see why and how it happened, right? Yeah, it's just very it's a very sad situation. And I think that was like the point like you like you're you're meant to feel sad like Lily and low kind of get like
00:13:34
Speaker
beat up. You get like glimpses of it in Kiss the Sky and Hollisflower. But this is like being in their head for some of these scenes. It was a
00:13:44
Speaker
The way before, like I said this in the last episode too, but I'll say it again, like I was like, hehehe during the first two books, I'm like, oh, I love Lo. I want a Lo perspective. No, being in Lo's head during Thrive, fucking ouch. Like, he's in so much pain all the time. Oh my god. But you guys, the fact that their relationship, like them loving each other was never
00:14:06
Speaker
like up for debate like them not being together was never an option oh i love this so much i i love the switch in brandy because last episode we ended talking about rike and daisy and she was miserable she's like oh my god these fucking and now we're talking about lee lo again and like her just entire personality change and it's like it's nice to see it's like
00:14:28
Speaker
Like her wanting to spend so much little time with like these little details with Rike and Daisy. You're like, all right, let's go. So jumping to a little bit more of a
00:14:46
Speaker
fun and light-hearted scene, we find out that the gang is gonna go to Comic-Con. And Lily is so excited about this, by the way. There's, at the very end of chapter five is when we learn that they're gonna go to Comic-Con. And she says, at the very end of the chapter, it says, I just have one question. And then in her head, she says, they wait for me to ask the room calm and quiet, unlike before. When I talk, they all try to listen. And that means,
00:15:15
Speaker
A lot. A whole lot. And then she asks, who is everyone else dressing up as? But I just thought that was so sweet. What she said. I was like, Oh, Lily. But the Comic Con is so much fun to read about. We get Lillian Lowe going as X-Men characters, whose names I don't remember. And I sincerely apologize because I'm not really a big X-Men person. Hellion and
00:15:40
Speaker
What's her name? He's always hell yeah. She's got a blonde wig or something or like she's like all like icy looking right or something like that. Someone please go to Instagram and comment what they were because we do not remember. Um the ones that of course what's the one that I remember you guys? Do I even need to say it? Rose and Connor. No. Rose and Connor. Batman and Catwoman. Are you kidding me? That's the most iconic thing.
00:16:09
Speaker
Well, I knew that from the fan art, because there's a really popular fan art piece of them dressed up in their costumes. And I was like, oh, that's hot. So I knew this scene was coming before I even. You know what? I do remember Daisy's costume. Daisy's costume is the girl from the fifth element. I do remember that.
00:16:24
Speaker
I don't remember Rikes. But I remember his green arrow. Rike was green arrow. Oh, green arrow. Oh, that's not. Because he already dressed up as green arrow in the front right. Oliver Queen. And he gives him shit about it. And Rikes, that's the only thing I fucking have. Of course, Rike wouldn't go out and buy him an outfit. It's just one of the times where Connor calls Rike a dog, which I think is one of the funniest running jokes in the entire series. He doesn't let up.
00:16:49
Speaker
and every time it was so funny oh my gosh 20 years never get told the quote in question is connor says now i'm questioning our friendship good rick says because i question it every fucking day i remember now why we're friends every man needs a dog lassie taught me that
00:17:10
Speaker
he says, right? Connor says, I thought it was a compliment. Everybody loves Lassie. I love him so much. Like, it's, there's like, shit goes wrong at Comic Con there, switch outfits. It's just like, so fun. It's, it's just a fun, like reprieve, you know, because he
00:17:31
Speaker
it's just yeah because you don't really get you don't get much of much reprieve in this book but this is this is one of the few scenes that we didn't see in Kiss a Sky and Hadha's Flower like we didn't even know it's happened until it came to Thrive. The other thing that I think about a lot with Thrive and I forget where it takes place exactly but it's when they all go bowling when I think of bowling now I think of that's really low going bowling with like Corsica and then I also think of what's the book called You Deserve Each Other
00:18:00
Speaker
There's a big bowling team. And there's, I love bowling and it's just such a cute date and seeing them. Yeah, it's so cute. And like have a good time and like be a friend group out in public and like relax.
00:18:16
Speaker
that are just really nice um are they during that bowling scene are they film i think they're filming their a scene for the reality show aren't they i yeah but the part that like really gets to me in that specific bowling scene because it's all six of them that are out bowling
00:18:33
Speaker
but it's just really cute because right oh my god low is looking at lily low is just like looking at lily and she's like trying to practice bowling essentially like practice her stance and she's you know she's she's always described as and this is chris and becky becca's word gangly she's just like the skinny little thing right and so like like the ball causes her to like you know
00:19:01
Speaker
Kareem back on her feet, right? And so she's like trying to keep her balance and everything. And he's just like watching her struggle with this bowling ball. And he just thinks, I love her. You know what I mean? It's just so cute. He literally says, the world seems to empty whenever I watch her. It's a peaceful existence. But I know a life with just the two of us alone is a future better as a fantasy, friends, family. They're not as easy to leave behind anymore.
00:19:29
Speaker
it's i just love that line from lo and that was such a big thing for them because they would used to just only hang out by themselves so like seeing them yeah like seeing them embrace like being around other people because i used to be like and i get like my relationship with like my own personal family is just so different from like other peoples but i'd be like i would never want to live with my sister like i can never live with my family the way that they live with their family but for them like it's so necessary it's where i was like okay
00:19:55
Speaker
It's cute. It works. And then I think we may have like skipped over this part, but you get New Year's in this book as well, or a New Year's because this book does cover two years. And you have the catch me I already have moment. And when that came up, I thought of Demi Lovato, I posted on my Instagram, sorry, I remember Demi Lovato's song catch me, it just fit so perfectly. Oh, they're so cute. In that scene, they're reminiscing, essentially about like what they
00:20:25
Speaker
would do when they were little and like she would just essentially like run around and wait for Lo to chase her around before midnight and then he's like you always would run out of breath but Lily is like well I want to do to catch me and so then that's where the catch me part comes from and it was just it's really cute. They're so nice. Because I feel like since so much of this book is a recap of like
00:20:51
Speaker
what happened in Kiss the Sky and Hot House Flower. The biggest thing in this book I think is Lowe's Relapse that because we didn't get to see those in either of those books. But before we get there, one thing that I wish that we would have gotten in this book, which does kind of irk me looking back on it, because again, like they left, there were scenes that I thought we would get Lily and Lowe's point of view on that we just like didn't and I don't understand why. But it was when they're in Colorado for the ski trip. And like Scott is there.
00:21:17
Speaker
And in Kiss the Sky, that was such a big moment for Lilian Lo because Scott is being so antagonistic towards them both, like really trying to like push them to relapse. And I remember, I was like, oh, I can't wait to just like see how they react to that. Like, I want it to be in their heads for that. And then we get to thrive. And it's like, all right, we're back in Colorado. And I'm like, KBR, what do you mean we're back in Colorado? Like, I wanted to see that so bad, like,
00:21:43
Speaker
If I could trade in a scene and thrive, I would to get that moment from the point of view. I know it would be painful, but I'm like, I want it. To be fair, we did get the scene, I mean, I'm not one to defend Kristen, but we did get the scene where Scott's hands, low bourbon.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah. And then Lily, she like what like she bats it out of his hand or something like that. Like really sick. And she says, she says, don't you dare give him alcohol. Like it's nothing. I was like, Lily. And then he says, Lily Calloway, did you just defend me by throwing a perfectly good booze at a douchebags head? She's like, Yeah, I did.
00:22:26
Speaker
I was like, I love low being like, it's still good. Like, could lead us to like, like Kendra said, like a lot of the plot points that are happening in this are obviously recaps from kiss the sky and ha ha's flower.
00:22:38
Speaker
But the biggest thing that is left out that happens between these books that we don't see in either of those books is Sweet Baby Lo's relapse. It's just like really, really fucking devastating to read. I felt sick to my stomach while I was reading it. Yeah. So at this point, Lo gets a call that
00:23:01
Speaker
In the morning, the news is going to be reporting that Jonathan Hale, his dad, has been verbally, emotionally, and sexually abusing him since he was a kid. And the only thing that's not true about that is the sexual abuse. But his dad and him have just like a really, you know, tense and strange relation. It's strange, right? Because Lowell loves his dad so much.
00:23:25
Speaker
And he wants his dad to be a good dad so badly. Like he desperately wants his dad to be a good dad. And Jonathan is just not for so long. There's this moment on page 23 and Thrive I underline. And it's Jonathan. He goes, sometimes I wonder if one of my fucking nannies dropped you on your head when you were a kid. Like that is Jonathan Hell, ladies and gentlemen. Shut up. Like, oh. And then Logos, my childhood nannies that he claims he banged, all 10 of them. Jonathan.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah. Jonathan. So Lo's just already having a hard time. The reality show is really tough on him and Lily. Like things are just not great anyways. And this news just like pushes him over the edge. He starts digging through cabinets and finds a bottle of Glenfidditch. Three fourths full. And then he says, I pop off the crystal stopper and put the rim to my lips. I hesitate for only one second before the sharp liquid slides down my throat. Bro, have you guys heard the audio of this book at all? Yeah, it is devastating.
00:24:25
Speaker
It's devastating. I remember I was walking, I was literally just walking my dog and I was listening to this and this scene came on and I was like crying in the middle of the sidewalk. Which dog? Which dog were you walking? Casper. Okay, good, good. And then the next chapter is equally as fucking devastating because we watch as Lily finds him and is like begging people to come help. She yells for Rose, Rose yells for Connor.
00:24:55
Speaker
And then Connor's like shaking. Connor's trying to get him into the car and he can't even drive to the hospital. I can't even think about that part. It like makes me so... Bro, why am I gonna tear up right now? It was Connor's alcohol. Yeah.
00:25:12
Speaker
And so Connor just, of course, feels like so painfully guilty, but oh my God, I'm gonna start crying too, because Lilly says, you wait for me, Lauren Hale. She thinks it's just a callback, obviously, to the first book when Lauren was like, I need you to wait for me, Lilly. So they're on the way to the hospital because Lauren's unresponsive, and she said, you wait for me, Lauren Hale. Promise me. Yeah. When they're in the hospital, Connor and Wright get into this huge fight,
00:25:41
Speaker
which I'm trying to remember whose side I was on. I definitely was mad at right. I was so mad at right. The fight yeah is essentially that Connor, I mean Connor still feels a massive amount of guilt but he says that he trusted Lo to have that alcohol in the house because they're living together at this point right and so he has alcohol in the house and so when he hit it but obviously not well enough
00:26:07
Speaker
and so he's saying that i trusted lo to not do anything with this alcohol if he did find it one day and then right as rike says you can't trust an alcoholic and he said i trusted my friend is what connor tells right that's one thing i really like about connor and lo's relationship versus rike and lo's relationship and i think he needs both of them in his life at all times because
00:26:27
Speaker
Reich would have been too overbearing with Lo and then Lo would have so relapsed regardless like he needed Connor to like level him out and Connor says I look as if Reich is like tell me I'm wrong tell me you're not destroying him and Connor said I love him I would never intentionally harm Lo which honestly we know is like a huge step for him but it's just like so oh my god he wakes up and
00:26:53
Speaker
And Lily gets into bed with him and she said, Lo, I just want you to know that if you leave this world, I won't be in it for much longer.
00:27:01
Speaker
He's a piece of me. You cut it off and it's like going through life with no lungs. Oh my God. No, they're so suicidal at times. I'm like, y'all need to calm down. Oh my God. You could be like in the bathroom for too long and Lily would be like, if he doesn't come out right now, I'm going to kill myself. You have a lone Kendra. No, but like it's scary because I believe them.
00:27:28
Speaker
Lily and Lo, the only way they could die is together. Like, truly, it'll be a notebook moment, like, same day, same time, peacefully in their sleep. Because if one of them went without the other, oh my god, neither of you, one of y'all have read A Little Life, but it would be a Little Life situation. Like, they would not last long. I'm never on this book. I'm never on this book either. Well, that's why I said you're not gonna read it, but...
00:27:52
Speaker
For those of you who have. Before we move on from like Lowe's relapse, like one more like final thing that made me really sad was that Lowe and Lily during this book decided that like, because we know that in Kiss the Sky, their fake engagement turned out like they didn't have to get married because Rose O'Connor got married. But they decided together and at the beginning of this book that they wanted to get married on June 16th, which is a reference to the Marvel comics that they love Earth 616.
00:28:23
Speaker
but love relapsed and they couldn't get married. Yeah. Yeah. Which like honestly, they shouldn't have gotten it. Exactly. You know what? This is the payoff. This is the next book. Yeah, exactly. This is also the book where we get their POV from Connor asking them if he can. Yeah. And Rose can get married instead of Lily and Lo. And you also get a little bit of Connor and Rose's wedding in this
00:28:49
Speaker
Oh, not enough. Yeah, that this is what the evil side it was like good enough for the Kabbalah way stands like we'll give you a little snippet of the Kabbalah way wedding. Take it or leave it.
00:29:01
Speaker
But I did just read Connor and Rose's first date, which is included in the new edition of Addictive for Now. And it was perfection. Like, I got to give it to the twins. When they write Kabbalah way, they write Kabbalah way really good. It was great. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'll bring it over. Yeah, same. Perfect. So, of course, all the events that are happening in Hunt House Flower, we see from Lauren's point of view, but the one that like stuck with me the most was definitely the fight with Reich, obviously, because you're in Lauren's, Lauren's head when he finds out that
00:29:29
Speaker
Reich and Daisy are caught kissing and he's just so pissed like he's because everybody's they've been lying to him he knew like he was just like so in his head and I think the biggest one for me the biggest quote was Lauren thinking I don't need him to be a 24-7 silver coach I need him to be my brother
00:29:53
Speaker
which like, yeah, like we're just saying like he, Reich is a sober coach to him all the time. Like he, I think this is a huge turning point in their relationship for sure, because he does transition into more of a brother role after their fight. It's not only the sober coach thing. It's also, there's also a line during that fight where he says,
00:30:17
Speaker
I have a goddamn human being, when will I ever be worthy of the truth? I think it's just because he feels like things have been hidden from him in his life in general for so long. He just wants to be told the truth. He's tired of not knowing things. He started being kept in the dark. And so I think that's another piece that's really hard for him. So much less about Daisy and just about the circumstances of his life in general.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, but this this book ends with Lauren finding out that Lily is pregnant. Having a baby. One of my all time favorite quotes is when they're talking about whether they think they can do it. It's just the two of them. And they're like, so terrified, but they're like, we can do it. And the quote is, you and me, I smile against his lips, Lily and lo, and then he Lauren says, and someone else.
00:31:15
Speaker
This is also I mean a part of this book also too is him like coming to terms with whether or not he wants to be a dad and how he would be as a dad because like in his POV
00:31:26
Speaker
He talks about how he can't bring another human into this world, right? And Lily, when she's keeping a secret about herself being pregnant, she's hearing him say all this, and she's like, oh, I can't tell him. I can't tell him. Like, Lo was very fuck them kids. He was. He was not about it. All of them? And he's like, yeah, all of them. He did not want to be a dad. But I couldn't even blame him.
00:31:54
Speaker
In the last episode, I told you how, yeah, how I was telling how Kayla gaslit me. And I was able to believe her because I was so in Lowe's, I was in Lowe's corner with him not wanting to have a kid. So I was like, yeah, like maybe they, maybe they want to have a kid and that'll be good. Like I thought, I thought it made sense for them not to have a kid. I mean, obviously I'm glad that they did have a kid, but yeah. Now we're going to have parents.
00:32:21
Speaker
And one of the lines that the twins, I'm sure, are real proud of themselves for is when Lo says, I just don't want our kids to be damaged like us. And then, of course. We are not like us. We are not like us, man. We're serious sorts of damage like us. We're not. But anyway, I just wanted to point that part out. Because I bet they're patting themselves on the back about that one.
00:32:47
Speaker
I used to like Mafie. That's crazy. Mafie is what they eventually named their first child. Mafie as a kid beats Mafie as an adult any day. We don't have to get too far into like us. We will. On to the next. On to the next. The best one. The best one. The best book in the whole series. Well, let's, let's quote. Push the brakes on that. Tell the world. This is the best book to you. I would say the
00:33:17
Speaker
The run from Addicted After All and Feel the Fire is pretty stinking phenomenal, I will say. Like those two books together back to back, like KBR, they were on fire. They lost it with The Long Way Down, but then they regained it.
00:33:30
Speaker
with some kind of perfect.
Key Moments in 'Addicted After All'
00:33:33
Speaker
But yeah, I think after all, it's my favorite book in the series, excluding some kind of perfect. Mine too. It's just such a good book and such a good ending to Lilian Lo's story. Like this is the last time we're officially in their heads for the like original books, excluding some kind of perfect. And it's like, I was just so sad.
00:33:54
Speaker
like going in, even though a lot of what happens in this book is actually kind of happy. There's a lot of happiness in this book. There is, there is. You know what, according to Snapchat, I had just finished this book maybe like two days ago. Aww, that's so nice. Happy anniversary to me. Yeah.
00:34:11
Speaker
This book, like Kendra said, there is a lot of happy moments. Obviously we have a lilo wedding, you know, we have babies being born, but another big part of this book too is that Jonathan Hale reveals that he has
00:34:26
Speaker
Is it kidney or liver failure? One of the two. Definitely. It's definitely his liver. What did I say? Kidney? Oh yeah, liver. Because of all of his alcoholism. He has liver failure. And so he needs somebody to take over a Hail Baby company. And basically he like tells all of the core six. Oh yeah. Also he tells all of the core six that basically you're all in the running to take over this company.
00:34:49
Speaker
Is it all of that? I think it's just it's just Oh, not Lillian Rose, but it's Daisy Rose and Connor. Yeah, Rose and Connor. Oh, so she's his friends and their girlfriends. Yeah, that's right. Thank you. Because yeah, Rose and Connor already have their own stuff going on.
00:35:05
Speaker
that conversation with jonathan and the kids i think it's just so iconic because he did not tell a single lie he's pretty much just telling them like how privileged they've been their entire lives how they need to like learn how to work for something i was like damn not jonathan speaking facts like jonathan's yo-yo so much because like in i would say from hot house flower threw a dick after all me and jonathan we were chilling we were cool fuel fire jonathan and i were boxing once again but uh yeah jonathan and dick after all like
00:35:32
Speaker
He was Scottish. And like, Reich's a bum. He's right. Reich is doing nothing. Reich climbs mountains. I'm so sorry. I'll chill. Oh yeah, Reich with no job. Reich is the only one. With no job. I'm like, he got a degree in journalism. What is he doing with it?
00:35:51
Speaker
nothing quick not a damn you would think with how much that these people are in the media right could be like oh let me put my journalism degree to use and like maybe combat like he could have started like a buzzfeed type situation like a stable stream of income did nothing sat on his ass and climbed rocks he got all those sports sponsorships or something oh yeah so you mean people are turning into watch free solo climbing
00:36:21
Speaker
Like all of the corsets Lily and lo have their own businesses, right? They got their own business. Yes. And then obviously Rose and Connor, you know, have their own business literal billionaires. Daisy has a summer camp. Even Daisy's doing more than rake now. Yeah. I guess Daisy's thing. It's mostly like, well, the summer camp is where we're not there yet. Yeah. Yeah. So I think after all, like.
00:36:45
Speaker
The plot point of them fighting for the hail coat, and they're all doing it for each other because like, everybody's like, nobody wants this fucking job. So they're all trying to win it so that the other person doesn't have to deal with it. Like, Daisy's doing it for Rike, Rike's doing it for Lo, Lily's doing it for Lo, Lo's doing it for everybody. Like, it's actually pretty fun. And I just love the conclusion of it is that, because Lo already has his comic book company, but it comes down to him and Rike when all is said and done.
00:37:13
Speaker
he's like he and Reich have a heart to heart and he's like Reich I can handle this I can do this and I want to do this like let me do this and that just like shows how much their relationship changed in the thrive that Reich was like he can handle this he can do this so Lauren and also Reich does the liver transplant
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah, he does give. Wait, isn't that late? That's not in this book. No, that's not in this one. That's in the last one. Is that? No, no, yeah. No, no, it is in this one. It is the long. Yeah, the Long Way Down Hospital is after the other stuff. Oh, yeah, he doesn't go through a liver transplant and solace death and in Long Way Down. Listen, Long Way Down, if you told me having a Long Way Down, I believe you so much. Yeah.
00:38:05
Speaker
We'll get to that one eventually, but that one does happen in this book. Okay, okay. Can we talk about the full-circle-ness of Lily and Lo's relationship? In this book, we have a beautiful full-circle moment between Lily and Lo on a yacht. And in the first book, their relationship officially started on the same yacht. And after all, it's just so beautiful. Someone else can describe it because I will fuck it up.
00:38:32
Speaker
Yeah, no, they're in the same room that they always stayed in when they would go on this family yacht. And Lo is talking to Lily and he's like, do you remember? They're actually reminiscing about this is where we started. Yeah, and then they sleep together and Lily's like,
00:38:51
Speaker
not compulsive about it. And it's just like they have this like really, really beautiful moment of just reflecting on how far they've come and they're pregnant. And it's just, it's so beautiful. And she's like, you are enough for me, Lauren Hill, something like that. And then he surprises her with a butt plug.
00:39:10
Speaker
And Lily is so excited. She's like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be completely full. I was like, yeah. Like, why was I crying over her butt plug? I was like, this is the sweetest thing. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Because my girl loves double penetration. She does. But basically, I have a scene ends with, yeah, essentially her saying that Lauren is enough. And I think that that's really a high point for Lily in her recovery.
00:39:38
Speaker
It's just really beautiful to see. Yeah. And on the same trip, doesn't Lo and Connor have this really nice heart to heart where they're talking about fatherhood because they're both expecting. Isn't that on this trip? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe. And it's because it's when Connor gives that speech when he's like, I know my kids will be better than me. Is it on this? I don't remember when it happened. I want to say it's on a boat. I know it happens on a boat. Is it? Yeah. But also on this trip.
00:40:07
Speaker
We have an iconic, a very fun moment. This is one of the ones that I think about all the time when they're playing truth or dare in a club. And are you open to that one right now, Randy? I'm open to the truth and dare part, yeah. Okay, yeah. And it's so fun. And I think it's Rike. Is it Rike who dares Connor to kiss Lo? Yeah, he said dare or fucking dare.
00:40:35
Speaker
Is it dare or fucking dare? And Connor said, I only pick the choices you're giving me. So that's kiss Lauren for 30 seconds. He's like, all right, deal. And you know, right? So homophobic ass was probably like, yeah, let's see if Connor's gonna kiss. Yeah, dude, like, yeah. Oh, my God. And Connor's like, Ben. And? And Lauren's like.
00:41:02
Speaker
yeah I thought you forked because like they already have this running joke of like them being boyfriends and like low will always call Connor low it's just their relationship in this book is just so cute their friendship just blossoms like so much in this book especially after how traumatic things were in thrive for them so it's nice to see them have fun and be happy and since since we're already talking about Connor and low in this book we can skip ahead a little bit we'll come back to the births but we can skip ahead a little bit to the part where Connor
00:41:30
Speaker
has a big heart to heart with him, not about the kids, but he basically is talking to low about how his relapse affected him. And he basically just comes out and says, you know, I love, I love you low, you know, like, he's just
00:41:43
Speaker
Oh, that scene is so good. That's big for Connor. I was so mad for Connor made a really, really like, oh, shitty joke. Yeah. Because they were like, talking about how they're worried about low and he was like, Oh, we like we need to celebrate blah, blah, blah, like, Connor bring the Glenn finish. And Connor just like gets up and walks out of the room, which is like, obviously very much not like him, like he would
00:42:08
Speaker
usually fight people or like joke around with people or whatever, but like, and yeah, then they have that like beautiful heart to heart. I just, I love their relationship so much. It's my favorite non-romantic relationship in the series. And then Barry quickly followed by Lily and Rose. Where are I? You know, you, well, you know mine, but mine is, I got ringed on Twitter when I said my, and not Twitter on, I don't have Twitter, on TikTok when I was like in another universe.
00:42:35
Speaker
Yeah, I know, I know, I know. Low, low in rows would be the hottest couple in another year. Their relationship is so good. Perfect enemies to lovers. People ate me alive. I don't say we're right. I totally agree. No, they weren't. Because then some other person made a TikTok about it like months later, and people were hyping her up in the comments. And I was like, also, when I said it, it was an issue. But when this person says it, it's like, oh, yeah, I totally shipped them on the low, blah, blah, blah.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, you're not wrong, but I mean think about it in another universe Lily has to not be alive. Yeah, we're gonna treat those like fanfiction alternate universe a you fake Rose and low hot the way they banter and spar with one another hot they would have fucked so well
00:43:25
Speaker
Um, anyways, going back to Connor and low for just a second, I don't disagree with you, Kendra. I fully agree with you. I'm just saying, but that specific scene when Connor tells low that he loves him and his, we love to really affect him. Like low is like shook. Right. And he says, like, I don't love many people. He says, but there is no manipulation in what I feel for you. And then keep going a little bit. He says, you're my liability because I love you.
00:43:55
Speaker
And he tells him about the night that he relapsed and how it truly affected him. He couldn't drive. I care about you. What happens to you? And it's a weakness any way I look at it. Like your father was asked, what do I get out of it? I told him the truth. I get your friendship. And that's all I want. And then Lo is thinking back on that. And he's like, it's like he took off some of his armor for me just to say that he loves me.
00:44:23
Speaker
says um i feel like i can breathe more easily knowing from connor not from rose that our friendship is real and i just i love them boyfriends they're so cute boyfriends also i think their relationship i looking back on it i think kbr did something so smart making them have all these like iconic heart to hearts in this book because it really sets up the plot of fuel the fire which we'll get to in a little bit but i just thought that was so smartly
00:44:51
Speaker
done on their behalf, which I feel like I read somewhere that once they did like Ha Ha's Flower, I think it's in the back of that book they said that that's when they started to plot out like the rest of the series because they had a lot more stories to tell with like Rike and Daisy and Rose and Connor. So it's interesting. I would love to see their outline of the series as a whole. And then circling back to what Kayla mentioned, the births, the babies.
Exploring 'Fuel the Fire'
00:45:19
Speaker
iconic Jane's birth and a limo Connor and they keep that limo and they keep the yeah and yeah Connor delivering the baby and then mafia being born was just like so beautiful and after mafia is born
00:45:40
Speaker
Lo says, maybe some people don't deserve second chances, but I'm worthy of this moment and this girl and this life I live and the one I created. That is literally a 180 from Lo's thoughts about himself and his life through the whole series. Like up until now, like he never felt worthy of Lily. He never felt worthy of like the life he had or love of any kind really. And it's just, oh God, it hits me in the heart.
00:46:07
Speaker
I think too we obviously talk a lot about Connor and Lo's relationship but I think Connor also really helped Lo get to a place of that because he's you know so nervous about being a dad and during Jane's birth he basically like asks him you know how how he's dealing with this because he doesn't know how he he himself Lo is going to and
00:46:26
Speaker
Um, Connor basically tells him they won't be my kids essentially won't be perfect, but they will be steadfast. And then Lowe's thinking about that. He says steadfast, a word that I would never describe myself as dependable, loyal, a constant in a world of unstable variables. It's something I die for my own children to be. And yeah. So like that quote.
00:46:51
Speaker
combined with the one that you mentioned, Brandy, I think is the character growth for Lo to think that about himself and Lily as a whole, I think it is incredible. So sad, Mafi doesn't live up to it. Anyways. The wedding, anyway. Yeah, and then the wedding is just so amazing. Their vows are incredible. I just like
00:47:17
Speaker
I hear that audio on TikTok all the time. Oh, this is so good. I tear up every single time in every alternate universe. I know I'm in love with you. Oh my god. Stop. Yeah, she says you have the purest parts of my soul. Oh my god. I love that it's Connor who marries them. I love that like mafia is at the wedding. Like, it just felt very core 60. Like, yeah, I love the moments in this series where I feel like I'm a part of the family.
00:47:46
Speaker
but they've created it and the wedding I think is the ultimate, like, where I built that the most. And this is a wedding that was done on their terms. And I love that. Their initial wedding wasn't really going to be when they wanted it to be. It wasn't going to be because that's when they really wanted to get married. It was because other people told them. But this is the day that they picked, you know, and so it was just
00:48:13
Speaker
So, so happy for them. Wait, oh my god, you guys, we also skipped over two iconic characters joined the cast full time in this book. We have Miss Willow, who we originally met and addicted for now, who is Lo's little sister. And now how old is she when she is in this book? A few years have passed. I think she's 17. I think she's a senior in high school.
00:48:37
Speaker
okay yeah she's entertained in high school and she has like ran away from home essentially and is now in lily well now in lauren in lily's life and we also meet garrison
00:48:49
Speaker
who at the beginning of this book you learned that these teens have been like pranking the house where everyone's been living and like wreaking havoc like just not being friendly or kind to the core six and they have been like trying to figure out who and Garrison is one of the teens
00:49:09
Speaker
who has been messing with them. And he ends up, Lo kind of like kind of takes him under his wing and ends up mentoring him. And I really see a lot of himself in Garrison because Garrison's just so angry out the world. He just wants to call. Garrison's just like so over Lo. Like, yeah. And he like doesn't have the best home life either. So we meet Garrison in this book. And it's the beginning of his and Lo's relationship and honestly Garrison's relationship with everyone.
00:49:33
Speaker
And I love Garrison so much. I love Willow so much. They are my third favorite couple out of the entire... Mine too. Mine too. Their duet's really good. It's great. I love it. Garrison, getting inside Garrison's head is... And Bad Rep Duet tells the events again from Addicted After All, but from Garrison and Willow's point of view. So you get to see pretty much Core Six again from a different point of view. I just repeated myself twice. Love that.
00:50:03
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's pretty good. Do it. I think you should read it if you haven't. Yeah, definitely. So next is fuel the fire and you guys, you guys can just like meet yourselves for like the next however many minutes. I'll just talk the whole time. It's fine. No. Uh, when we were creating like outlines for this episode, I wrote down way too much, you guys, but I won't talk about all of it, but there is so much to talk about. Essentially in this book, Rose and Connor are trying to create
00:50:30
Speaker
distractions for the media. They basically teamed up with the media to create distractions to combat some of the rumors that are going around about Mafi's father. A lot of people are trying to say that, you know, Rike is the father, not Lo because, you know, Feliz is a sex addict and she sleeps around, blah, blah, blah. So that's going on. And also a massive plot point to this book.
00:50:57
Speaker
is that Connor's sexuality is outed to the media. And not only that, it also puts Rose's ability as a mother into question. Basically, the whole story is that they're only in this for a business relationship, and they don't actually really love each other. And that's the big part.
00:51:20
Speaker
Yeah, they thought that Rose was his beard, essentially. When was Connor's sexuality first discussed in the series? Was it addictive after all, where you learned that he liked both men and women? He and Lo have a conversation about it. He and Lo actually have a conversation about it in Addicted after all. And that's when Lo learned about it. And Lo also asks Connor during that same scene if Rose knows, and he's like, well, Rose has known since we were 16.
00:51:48
Speaker
Yeah. So she's known the whole time. This book, for me, it's my personal favorite in the series, because I think, don't laugh at me. You're like, Oh, here she goes. Listen, for people who don't know, Kayla loves this book so much. Like, she to me is like, when I think of Rosen Connor, I think of Kayla, she annotated fuel the fire for me.
00:52:12
Speaker
um which I thought was like it might have been like the first piece of mail you ever sent me to be honest um and you like I remember you were just so excited to reread it and like you were reading it when I was like so early on in the series and I didn't like I it makes me really happy with how much you love this book and them um you are the expert in it so
00:52:35
Speaker
Yeah, I that's why I'm smiling because I'm like, this is like Kayla's book. This is yeah. This is well, I just I don't know what it is about this but I think it's just the
00:52:48
Speaker
The thing with Rose and Connor throughout the whole series, and I think the way everybody views them, is just these pillars of strength, right? And they never waver. Nothing can break them. Nothing can shake them or anything. And in this book, that isn't true, right? Like there's so many things that actually do break them.
00:53:12
Speaker
And you see them be incredibly vulnerable with not only each other, but with the rest of their friend group, the Core Six. And there's just so many scenes that I think about that show their vulnerability. The ones that come to mind immediately are the, I think the big one for everybody is the closet scene when she says,
00:53:39
Speaker
I can hear our hearts breaking, right? Like that's a massive one. And that scene for context happens, I know the chapter, it's chapter 35, I think. And for context right before, the chapter right before is when we learn that Carter has been outed and Rose just like needs a minute because again, at the same time,
00:54:06
Speaker
people are basically calling them a business relationship, not a real relationship. And so that like breaks her, right? She hates to not only see Connor. What are you laughing at now? Oh. I remember this so clearly. Kayla wrote on chapter 35, AKA buckle up. Truly. Keeping in mind that chapter 34 is when I really need it to buckle up. So I was like, she set me up.
00:54:35
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. Um, but it's, it's Rose just like me the second because she's seeing all of this unfold. Right. And she's being told by PR people and everything of what they should do and why not. She's just like, I just like the Mila. So she just goes to the con or the closet, excuse me. And she just breaks down.
00:54:56
Speaker
the closet and she's like screaming into these coats of hers and also this is also a callback I can't remember which book it is but you know I don't recall which book it is but it's mentioned in the series that Rose whenever she needs a second to herself
00:55:11
Speaker
just to gather her thoughts and be vulnerable and scream. Essentially she goes to the closet. And so that's like a thing for her that she does. And Connor is trying to reassure her, you know, that you're safe with me. And the whole quote is, she says, I can hear our hearts breaking. And then he says, I'll shield your ears from the sound of heartbreak. She says, and what happens when I ache to hear your voice? He says, I'll whisper beyond every English sound.
00:55:39
Speaker
you will always hear me no matter where I am. I think this book has the best writing in the series, to be honest, like the way that Connor and Rose describe each other describe their feelings. Oh my god, yes. It's just like on 10. Like it's just so beautiful. Like that scene that quote you just read came like that's beautiful. And I could just picture them perfectly in that closet together like in the dark, like holding each other. Yeah, it was just done so well.
00:56:10
Speaker
And then the quote that's like on that same page when he said, I will die with you when we are old and withered and gray, and I'll live with you every day until then. This is what I'll always choose. See the twins were writing down like they have it in them. I don't know where it goes sometimes, but it's there. What does she say next, Brandy? Yes, darling, I will die with you, but not today. Yes.
00:56:38
Speaker
So cute. I'm not just cute. They're more than cute. But anyway, you get me. So that's like one major scene like that I think of that shows their vulnerability. Another one for me, this is more Connor is he has been trying to essentially lure Scott into admitting his wrongdoings. I got a big character is a massive character in this book. Unfortunately, he's now their neighbor in this book. And
00:57:08
Speaker
A big part of O'Connor's doing like I said is trying to basically like and getting him to admit somehow the wrongdoings that he is, he's done the things that have occurred, trying to get him out of their lives.
00:57:20
Speaker
And so he does this by kind of shifting his personality. Connor's kind of a chameleon. He can kind of shift his personality to whatever suits. He's like, he can, he's a genius. So he's like pretending to be this like big frat bro, you know, whatever. And so one thing that Scott basically does to essentially test him
00:57:42
Speaker
is to get him to watch him and Rose's tapes that Scott got illegally. And during all of these things that are happening with Scott, we have this internal monologue continuing with Connor where he's like constantly thinking about Rose and he's thinking about what Rose would do and making sure that he has her voice in his head, right? So he knows, he's constantly reminded why he's doing this.
00:58:11
Speaker
And so when he finishes doing that with Scott, he like comes to Rose and he's just like full body sobbing, like crying. He's just like, I'm so sorry. Like I did this and I'm, it's a really sad moment. And Rose is always like, she's just basically just reassuring Connor, right? Like, you know, I will always love you essentially. And then he says, I've been spilled open. I've been spilled bare. I've allowed her spirit to seep inside of me, to remind me.
00:58:39
Speaker
remind me why I love. And again, like going back to Kiss the Sky, he's constantly pushed against admitting love to anybody. And so now in this book, we see him fully embrace love, basically. And so he's constantly, with having Rose in his head, he's just like, she always reminds me why I do this. And I love, like, I just am obsessed with that. At the end of that scene,
00:59:06
Speaker
She asked him like, what else do you need? And he was like, a break, which leads them to the cabin for the first time. That scene is so fun. That's just like, again, a nice reprieve. Yes, it's so nice. They do anal for the first time at that scene too. This book is like very sad.
00:59:22
Speaker
like it's a very sad book but there are so many fun scenes in this book like you have Connor's birthday which is really fun there are a lot of great like smut scenes in this book and oh my god one of the things that makes like full of fire really stand out to me is you really get like an insight into like
00:59:39
Speaker
their marriage and like how it works and like them as parents. Um, cause I feel like in, in Addicted, after all, it was like the buildup to the marriage and like the buildup to the babies. And like you get like a little glimpse of them being parents, but like they're so small. But in People of Fire, like you really sit down with them like in their marriage and as parents now and like seeing those little moments are just so good. Yeah. Um, one, another fun scene that comes to mind, just like, I guess this is more like heartwarming.
01:00:06
Speaker
is Christmas when Connor gives everybody books that he annotated for them because he asks them he like asked them in a previous book their favorite book and then he gives them those books back but annotated and I think when he gives it to Rose I don't have the quote right in front of me but I know this so he's like he says to her like here my he writes in the book I should say like here my soul speak or something like that and I just
01:00:34
Speaker
Oh my god. What a thoughtful king. And one thing that is so big and full of fire, which I think makes it such a painful, I mean, I'm like, Oh, there's so many happy moments, but like, no, it is very painful. But it is like the discussion on Connor sexuality, which I thought was handled with a lot of care. Because he is out into the media, and they're like pressuring him to kind of pick a label for himself. They're like, What are you like,
01:00:59
Speaker
are you gay are you bi are you like just explain yourself and he's like why don't fit into any of that um and there is a moment where he's talking to rose and he's like well i think i'm gonna just get go to this press conference and i'm gonna say that i'm queer like i think that
01:01:14
Speaker
would be if i had to pick one that's what i would fall under and um i don't remember exactly what rose says but she pretty much is like no like if you don't feel that like don't go up there and lie like you need to be yourself um and unlabeled people don't get a lot of representation and oftentimes when they do they're told that they are invalid like we are so quick to put people in boxes when it comes to their sexuality i don't know it just makes me very happy that connor at the end was still able to
01:01:44
Speaker
stand true in his sexuality and be like no like i am unlabeled and that's valid and it just it made me very very happy because i've only ever read about one other fictional character give getting to who was also unlabeled and getting to stand tall in that um and connor was the second so the first one was is simon snow but um connor is i don't know the way they handle sexuality just meant a lot to me and
01:02:10
Speaker
I gotta give the twins that. They ate down. Also, they do anal in this book like Brandy mentioned earlier. Yeah, exactly. It was such a good scene. What does, Kayla, what does Rose say when they're doing anal? Mount the fuck out of me. Mount the fuck out of me. So you get
01:02:27
Speaker
You get Dom Connor mounting the fuck out of Rose while doing anal. And you know what me, I'm hyping up the twins. No, now I'm about to cuss the twins out because they go to a sex store in this book to like buy, was it a plug that they bought? Yeah, they buy a plug. Why don't we see them use it? We don't. We don't see them use it. We're just told in retrospect. They do talk about using it. Yeah. They do. I don't want to talk about it. I want to see it.
01:02:59
Speaker
The way that they think about each other, the way that they describe each other, the way they describe their feelings about each other, it's just so stunning. And those evil twins, as mentioned, talk about how hard it is to write Rose and Connor for them. It's so difficult for them to write Rose and Connor. I was like, why did you write them so fucking good, then? They write some showings. Almost too good. That's why I want to sit down and have a conversation with them. Show me your outlines. Show me how you build these scenes. Because it's really beautiful.
01:03:20
Speaker
Don't deprive me.
01:03:29
Speaker
And it's like, just perfect. Yeah, I'll keep this portion brief since we're already going long. But I also love in this book, seeing Rose and Connor parent, Jane, and the amount of love, like I just not only like the amount of love that they have for each other, I think is in equal parts the love that they have for their children. And Connor, as a dad, is like something that I never really like
01:03:56
Speaker
I first started the series never really knew that I needed like he wishes only the best for his children and better than him better than what he has you know what I mean like there's a scene with Jane in the elevator where he's just like whispering to her she's just a little baby you know she doesn't understand a word he's saying and he's just like talking to her like saying like you know one day Jane you will surpass me in all ways I hope all of you do and he's talking about all of his kids and it's just
01:04:25
Speaker
That is also a massive plot point in this book. It's like Rose and Connor want more kids, but they don't know if they feel like they can bring kids into the world that they live in now that they know what it's like to try to protect Jane from the media, from people who want to know too much about her, but want to be part of their lives and uncomfortable and
01:04:47
Speaker
you know, gross way. They're like, can we, can we do this? Like, is it ethical almost is what they're asking themselves. Yeah, Rose literally gets her hair ripped out. Okay. Which leads to one of my favorites. I know. I was just gonna say that. I know that's your favorite one. One of the last scenes in this book is Conner's press conference to the media. And again, like Kendra had said,
01:05:15
Speaker
You know, Rose is basically telling Connor to say really what he wants to say, not what people are telling him to say. The press conference begins with him talking to them about Rose and how much he does love her. The quote that sticks out to me there is, he says, every day of my life, I am enamored. Every day of my life, I am bewitched. And every day of my life, I spend with her. Like, if that's not like love, bro, I don't know what is, right?
01:05:44
Speaker
And then again, to kind of addressed his being unlabeled, he just says simply, I am, I am, I am. And it's a quote from somebody else, but he uses that to kind of just say, I am what I am. Right. And that's, I think just really sums up who Connor is. And then again, at the very end in his head, he says, I don't need their understanding, but my daughter will, and I hope
01:06:11
Speaker
the minds of her peers are wide open with vibrant hues of passion. I hope they all paint the world this color." And that's kind of how that portion of the book ends. And I don't know, I was just really proud of Connor in that moment. I don't ever expect Connor to be anybody else but himself, but with the pressures that he was facing to do what he thought might've been better for his family in that moment and shield them from
01:06:37
Speaker
different media attention that he didn't want, but he was still, he still chose to do what he knew was right for him. And so that's why he's like my king. Being out it I think is one of the worst things that a person
01:06:52
Speaker
can go through so where like the events of this Long Way Down is the next book in the series and there are a lot of traumatic things that happen in that book um but I still think Connor being out it is by far one of the most horrific things to happen in this entire series
01:07:08
Speaker
Yeah, and then you learned that it was actually Jonathan Hale who felt so threatened by Connor's presence in Lauren's life. Jonathan was the one who outed him, which again, and I think after all, I'm like, Oh, like me and Jonathan are chilling and then feel the fire. I'm like, Jonathan can literally choke.
01:07:24
Speaker
and like pretty redeemable for that one yeah yeah and then also i do want to say i know earlier i was like oh rike homophobic i know he's not it's just fun to show that because in this book i actually do really appreciate rike's character because if there was someone who i was worried about who would react to connor negatively it was rike but then we actually see rike's rike was just there for connor when connor really needed him in this book and one thing that i love about rike so much is that
01:07:52
Speaker
we've talked about this a lot where Lo always tries to like see the good in Jonathan and like it's always trying to like, but he's my dad, or even like with Rose and Lily, like, oh, but she's our mom, like, Rike is very like, no, these are fucked up people. They did fucked up things, you guys need to like hold them accountable. And I love that and feel the fire when they're like all having that dinner with the families. Rike is like, no, like, I don't want to forgive him. Like, I don't want to like accept him back in my life. Like, he was just so steadfast in that and I
01:08:21
Speaker
I don't know, I got to give Wright flowers when flowers are due because he's just such, even though him and Connor go back and forth all the time, he's such an incredible friend to Connor and there for him. Yeah, absolutely.
01:08:35
Speaker
Just like, we talked about this in the last episode, every single relationship that can possibly exist in the Core Six is so great. And this is also the book where the hot temper triad is born. I think it's always been there, but I think that's where it's officially given a name. Lily name, Rose, right. Amazing. We love them. We love them.
01:08:58
Speaker
Um, this book ends with Rose and Connor moving out and getting their own place. And it's a very emotional scene because all the girls are crying and all the guys are like, we're moving down the street. They're literally moving down the street. And so they move out and then in the epilogue, or maybe I switched those two around, but in one of the last chapters that they do agree that they will have, uh,
01:09:23
Speaker
more children and basically at the end when they do move out Rose is essentially like asking Connor what do you hear in this house like what do you hear happening and he basically just like runs through what he sees in their future which is like alarm clock beeping during school days in many rooms they keep ringing ringing at different intervals and he's like well you know who wakes them up me or you and they just kind of talk about like what they see in their future and then
01:09:53
Speaker
At the very end of the book, he says, I hear alarm clocks beeping, laughter in the kitchen, yelling by the pool. I listen to the vigorous pulse of our future roaring with life. And so it basically just affirms that they are just going to be one massive cobalt empire. And that they, you know, screw essentially like what this world is going to do to them as long as they know what's good for their family. And I think what they really want for their family is just more.
01:10:22
Speaker
more in their family. They want more kids, more laughter, more noises, more everything, which is crazy because like, you know, look at Rose and Connor from when they started. Rose didn't want kids at all. And now she's like, yeah.
01:10:37
Speaker
Oh, gosh, she pops out. So, oh, and you know, another, a character that has a lot of big moments in this book is actually Daisy.
Challenges in 'Long Way Down'
01:10:46
Speaker
So, at the beginning, yeah, it's not really at the beginning, but Connor comes out to Daisy in this book before he comes out really to anyone else, which I think sets up how their relationship plays out through the rest of the series really well. And then also in this book, you learn that Daisy actually is struggling with, is it, what does she have, endometritis?
01:11:07
Speaker
i forget if they actually give it a name but it'll be hard for her to have a kid it's very unlikely i don't remember what it is i what is it endometri because i she has like period pains like or she like doesn't get a period it's something with her period um and it's when they're all fertility issues yeah she has fertility issues and when they're all at the cabin she like breaks down and it's actually very very sad when it happens yeah yeah and that does lead into the long way down which is the ninth book
01:11:36
Speaker
Rike and Daisy's last book and I asked myself
01:11:41
Speaker
Why did they choose to end it with Rike and Daisy all the time? I ask myself that every day. Yeah, basically this book is too long, but in our opinion, but essentially this book Raisie, yeah, Raisie just goes through a lot. Daisy has PTSD, she's got fertility issues, and if she gets pregnant, it's very high risk. And then meanwhile, Rike is, I guess Rike is still in the beginning of this book, he's just chilling trying to free solo. Yeah.
01:12:10
Speaker
He's just like fucking busy in the woods recording it, which I thought was actually very high. He like records and then hands her the phone so she can watch in real time. That is a good one. I'll give him that. I'll give him that.
01:12:26
Speaker
Um and so we learned that Rike and Daisy do want to try for a baby but again it is high risk and so the people that learn about it are not pleased and they learn that Rike and Daisy are going to try naturally to have their own kid and uh specifically Connor. Connor is not happy he's like um you guys
01:12:47
Speaker
You know that we love you, that your lives have value, you have other avenues that you could take to have a child, why aren't you choosing those? Because Rose had already offered, right, to carry the baby. The reason why they keep testing Rike about this is because Rike is a free solo climber. He has what is arguably the most dangerous sports profession in the world, can die on any climb and he's like, I want to have a kid.
01:13:12
Speaker
you need to go get a job, go sit in an office, and then we can talk about you having a baby. Oh my gosh, he frustrates me so much sometimes. But Daisy and Rike also get engaged in this book pretty early on, I wanna say. It's such a sweet engagement. Yeah, I really liked it. Yeah, they're free solo climbing, they're dealing with this infertility, and then they're, I'm actually so pissed at how
01:13:39
Speaker
amazing their wedding was, especially knowing we didn't get a Caballo wedding. You didn't have to throw that last bit in there. I don't need to be reminded. Yeah. I really don't. I just can't believe that their song is Sweet Disposition. That is like one of my favorite songs. Like I love it so much. It's so good. Yeah. Honestly, like one of my favorite Rike and Daisy scene in the whole series
01:14:06
Speaker
is them the night before their wedding, practicing their wedding dance to sweet disposition in their hotel room. And they're just like swinging around and laughing. And Reik is like, I'm so fucking in love with you.
01:14:20
Speaker
They do love each other very much, I will say that. I think during the rehearsal dinner, it's during that wedding time. It's a great round of chapters around their wedding. Yeah, it is. I think it's Daisy who says, it's impossible to forget the kind of love that rattles my bones and screams, I am alive every single day of my life.
01:14:45
Speaker
And then on their wedding day when she comes down the aisle with her blonde hair because she's realized that that is what suits her like that's what she feels and like that's how she feels the most herself and that's how she wanted to feel on their wedding day. I love it.
01:15:01
Speaker
Bro, didn't they get married at like sunrise? Did they get married at sunset or sunrise? It was very them. They had a destination wedding. They did. Yeah, they were in South America because Rike was also going to go on a climb shortly after the wedding. What a dummy.
01:15:19
Speaker
And then we get Reich's, during the wedding, we get what is arguably Reich's most controversial moment, controversial moment in the entire series, which turns a lot of people off of it. It's in my brain. And it's in the vows. And so during Reich's vows, he admits that he has been in love to the whole wedding. He goes, I've been allowed, since you were 16 years old. And when I first read it, because, okay.
01:15:48
Speaker
There's a big allegation with Reich on the internet that he groomed Daisy. So with that allegation in my head, I thought that we were going to get something very much worse than what that was. So when I first read the vowels, I was like, that's it. Like, it's still creepy. He shouldn't have said it. But I don't agree with people when they're like, oh, Reich was a groomer because he does not fit. That was not a grooming relationship.
01:16:11
Speaker
whatsoever like that, like look up what a groomer actually is. That's not right. They just have a large age gap that is questionable at times, but it's not a grooming situation. So when I got to Ross, I was like, Oh, okay. But now looking back at it, I'm like, right, sweetie.
01:16:30
Speaker
you could have just told Daisy that in the comfort of your own home with no one else around. Why did you admit it in front of all your friends and all your family with Lo standing right there who used to like antagonize you for he used to think like, oh, right, must be embarrassing. Yeah, I'm not I was not in love with her blah, blah, blah. No, he said that he was in love with her since she was 16. And
01:16:55
Speaker
The people who really hate Rike, that's a reason why they hate him so much. I blame that on the twins because I'm like, why did they put that in there? It didn't even really fit his character. It didn't add anything. Yeah. It didn't even really feel like something Rike would say given what we learned in House Flower and Thrive and everywhere else. I was just like, why did they?
01:17:16
Speaker
say that, especially because it's not that type of, he's not Zeus Garo, right? He can't be like, I was in love with you since 17. So it's just not the life of the book. So I was like, why'd you say this? And like, it's just so crazy too, because like, A didn't do exist, B had added nothing. Like, we already believed that they were in love. You didn't need to tell us that.
01:17:38
Speaker
And yeah, I don't know. He could have even said like, if they wanted to put something in there about how long their relationship has been going on, like before it was even like sexual or whatever. Like he could have said like, I cared for you so deeply and I fell in love with you. Yeah. Whatever at this time. Like he said, I was, I've been in love with you from that day. And he was rejecting a memory when she was fucking 60. It's crazy. It's crazy.
01:18:05
Speaker
But after their wedding, he does this huge climb in Peru with one of his groomsmen, Sully. Fortunately, this is where the good times stop.
01:18:21
Speaker
Rip Sully, obviously tragedy strikes during the the climb and Sully dies and Reich is like very very very badly injured. And Daisy is pregnant at this point. Oh yeah we learned it. She got pregnant I think before the wedding. Which is a miracle, happy for her. It is a miracle. She
01:18:48
Speaker
And Connor and Lo, I think literally hear about Rike's accident like on the radio or like they turn on the radio or something like that and then they hear about Rike's accident and I think he was even pronounced dead at one point but they were dead. Yeah on the radio they pronounced it dead. Yeah and then you see Connor and Lo react to like oh god and that's why I'm just like Krista and Becca like I hate fake outs and books so much when like they're not
01:19:16
Speaker
are so many fake outs in this fucking book and that one really just like grinds my gear so much because to see Connor I love pain we've established that but that pain was not fun seeing them think that he was dead because I knew he wasn't gonna know so it's like why yeah make us sit through that yeah there's so obviously right he's not dead and I remember distinctly thinking that Daisy was gonna miscarriage but she oh I thought the whole book I was yeah
01:19:42
Speaker
There's a great moment though in the hospital where we've always talked about how there's always one like relationships in the course six you can connect each one of them to each other but Connor and Rike I think is a really underrated one and Connor is basically just telling Rike listen like I know who I am like I'm an extraordinary man with so many talents blah blah blah he's like but I need I need you you know what I mean and I think that that
01:20:10
Speaker
again, is a really vulnerable moment from Connor, especially like Rike doesn't see that too often. And I think in that moment, Rike is also realizing what Connor is telling him. He's telling him that he needs to be selfish in his life and think about himself and think about, or excuse me, he's telling him to be, yeah, he's telling him to be less selfless, so selfish. And he's telling him to think about
01:20:40
Speaker
really how this what he's doing is affecting him and could affect his future family that he now has he has Daisy he's married to Daisy now and he has a kid and so he's telling him to really think about that and um he's about to have a kid he's about to have a kid yeah because rank just wants to fucking die like he's just so incredibly upset about losing one of his best friends of all time yep and he's just like so injured and
01:21:10
Speaker
obviously traumatizing you know watching like Sally died in his arms so yeah it is really like it's traumatizing in this book um Connor and Rose's world is expanding a little more because you learn that they're expecting twins and I don't know when this happens but isn't there a conversation where happens
01:21:30
Speaker
Well, you learned that Connor would trust his kids, like if something were to happen to him and Rose with Rike and Daisy over Lily and Lo, which I thought, I mean. And Lily and Lo were like, cool. And it was a conversation because Lily and Lo were like, we would want to leave them to Rike and Daisy. Rose and Connor were like, we're going to leave them to, no wait, sorry. Rose and Connor are like, we're going to leave them to Rike and Daisy. And then Lily and Lo were like, we're going to leave them to Rose and Connor.
01:21:59
Speaker
And then Daisy and Rike were like, if something happens to us, we want to leave our dog coconut with.
01:22:05
Speaker
oh my god wait before the wedding all that we got to talk about the most embarrassing moment from this oh god they're at a news party i think it's christmas is it it's they're at some holiday party it's a holiday in december yeah everyone's all caked up like having a grand old time together and i think lo wanted to take like a photo or view something on rike's phone
01:22:32
Speaker
so low unlocks rykes phone goes into his camera roll to get whatever he needed to get and what does he see and play out for the whole room the video of rykes fucking in the woods from earlier in the book and when i tell you that was the most embarrassing thing
01:22:50
Speaker
KBR loves to do it. Why was that necessary? Do you think for KBR? Bro, because they get off on embarrassing their characters. They do. It was so embarrassing. And like, I just I felt kind of honestly bad for Daisy, because it's just like this girl has been through. First, you have you have Connor walking in on her getting a facial, okay, that she did not plan for. And then you have her brother in law seeing her having sex with his brother.
01:23:19
Speaker
She can't catch a break. Poor girl. So Sully died. Rike almost died, was in the hospital. When does Daisy... What happens to Daisy and the baby? Because that was really scary too. Another fake out when Rike is having a panic attack thinking that Daisy's gonna fucking die and be left alone to be a single parent.
01:23:41
Speaker
Well, so her birth is very high risk and it goes really poorly and she's losing a lot of blood. They have to rush her in. And I have this quote tabbed where Reich said, I finally talk, my voice low and raw and he's talking to like baby who they've named Sully.
01:24:00
Speaker
they're talking to the baby and he's like I'll never love you any fucking less whatever happens she wouldn't want that even if and then he said I can't fucking say it even if it's just you and me oh oh that is good in conjunction with all of that like with Daisy's birth being high-risk it the the period between Sully's death and
01:24:26
Speaker
Daisy giving birth. Ryke is also struggling, not only is he struggling with Sully's death, but he's also like, you know, he also got really injured, right? So he's having to take all these painkillers. And there's also a point like in this book where Lo is having to play the role that Ryke played for him when he was going for recovery.
01:24:48
Speaker
and um he's basically low is basically ensuring that that low or excuse me low is basically ensuring that reich doesn't get addicted to painkillers which i thought was just so not handled with care or like not enough care like this book takes place over like almost two years in reich and daisies and like the core six is life and seeing
01:25:08
Speaker
Reich struggle with addiction I thought would have been such a good storyline to like really spend time with like old roles reverse and then it's like oh it's I'm pretty quick what it almost kind of was like the narrative that like Reich was strong enough to deal with it and low wasn't when that's not addiction works at all definitely not I will say though that this the the things that Lowe said I guess just like as a brother I really loved like when he's telling him like
01:25:37
Speaker
um you were patient with me right so like me doing this right now is me being patient with you and like because he's basically like trying to get him to just like get up and do something that's literally what i think that happens during that scene and so i while it is resolved quickly and i wish it was explored more even though this is already a long enough book as is um
01:26:00
Speaker
I do think that the moments, the brother moments that come out of that are still really good. But yeah, Sully's birth is like super traumatizing. Obviously Daisy lives. Yeah. And she is fine, but she can't have another baby on her own. Oh, they gave her like a full hysterectomy. Yup. Yeah. So, but they were like so happy with their little family of three for the time being.
01:26:29
Speaker
Um, and they're just so happy in the end of this book, honestly, like really punched me in the gut. Like, oh, it's so good. It's so good. Like there are so many good quotes at the end of this book where like Daisy said, I want to say in the end, but maybe this is still the middle in the middle. I've watched low become sober. I've watched Lily curve a relentless addiction. I've watched Rose blaze her own trail and put fire to stereotypes. And I've watched Connor fall in love
01:26:52
Speaker
with more than just himself. I watched Reich Meadows unclip his shackles and rise again, and me, I discovered who I am." That is such a good quote.
01:27:02
Speaker
and then that epilogue really I was not expecting the time jump I was really no neither was I I think that that honestly because again this book was too long I think there are a lot of random plot points in this book like you had Rike and Daisy like they kept getting flower bombed the core six this was like a plot point in this book so they wanted to like figure out like who was flower bombing them I thought it was kind of stupid to be honest
01:27:25
Speaker
you had them like staking out and then it was just like a lot of these random moments I think like KBR was just trying to stuff in as much as possible because this technically was supposed to be the end of the series and that's why we get that amazing epilogue at the end where they jump forward like 13 years and you see everyone like established and their families um and so many
01:27:48
Speaker
So at this point in time, I only knew that Rose and Connor were gonna have seven kids. That's all I knew about the kids. So when I get to this epilogue and I learned that Lillian Lowe had four, no, they have four kids? Yeah, four kids. I was shook. I was like, no, no, you're a kid. He's come so far. And he's 13 years old. So this epilogue is from Rike's point of view. So Rike's pride in his brother,
01:28:18
Speaker
filled me with so much pride because you getting that moment of like lows been 13 years so we're like i felt just so happy and you just see all the families together at the cabin and it was just so like if we never got some kind of perfect i would say that epilogue was just like a really good way to end the series as a whole yeah thank
Family Dynamics and Series Conclusion
01:28:40
Speaker
Thank God. Oh, and then in the epilogue, you learned that Rose carried a baby, or she actually did carry a baby for Daisy and Rike, which again, Rose, sister of the year. She's truly the best. Truly. Sister of the year. Oh my gosh. Also, circling back, with Sully's death, did you guys know Sully was going to die going in? Because I knew, or like, I didn't know how he was going to die, but I had a feeling that he had to have died because I knew that they named their baby Sully from the Like Death series.
01:29:09
Speaker
And my friend, when I was reading this book, cause Sully is a very controversial character in the Laika series. And I was reading the baby Sully. Yeah. Yeah. The baby Sully. Oh, when I was reading long way down, my friend Carrie goes, the wrong Sully died. The wrong Sully died in the long way down, which like I thought was so funny. Um, very dark, but yeah, Sully is a very controversial, controversial kid.
01:29:38
Speaker
Um, yeah, so yeah, I knew so I feel like when he died, his death didn't have that big of an like, it was still sad. But I wasn't like, thrown off guard or anything. I gotta be so honest with you. I was not having a great time in this book. I was like, a little bit skimming. And then I was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I had to go back and I was like, Yeah. So funny. That's funny.
01:30:09
Speaker
Oh my God. Brandy, I want to get you a shirt that says number one, Raisy Hater. I think you should put that in your bio on Instagram. Like I'm not trying to get attacked in the DM. You know how Lily would try to like hype up Rike and Daisy like she would support them online? Crazy thing, Raisy. You, Brandy, were the people online like talking shit. Lily was combating you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
01:30:39
Speaker
Logan, if you're listening, I am so sorry. I can't think of any of my other friends who are amazing. Sahara, I'm so sorry.
01:30:48
Speaker
Actually, yeah, a lot of my mutuals are crazy people which like respect but I don't I personally I'm so I love that for you. I really do. Yeah, I really do and I I love it and respect you and your opinions. Um, I think right as a character Aesthetically, it's like he's a good man like Yeah, honestly, I wonder if a lot of the love comes from the fan cast because I will say
01:31:15
Speaker
the best one cast is an original two right like that's one that maybe are picked out and he stuck around the whole time low has gone through a few fan casts I personally love the fan cast that is currently the low fan cast Xavier is a perfect fan cast but yeah I really love a lot of the fan cast for this one but yeah
01:31:34
Speaker
All right, so moving on to the last book in the series, which is technically like an epilogue novel. This book spans 10 years essentially from the end of long way down all the way to 10 years later. And the epilogue in some kind of perfect is the same epilogue that's in a long way down. And we could spend, I said this before, I think, but we could spend an entire episode
01:32:04
Speaker
going through like all the chapters in this book, but we're not going to do that like we did with the previous books because there's not really a specific overarching plot in this book. It's really just about the core six
01:32:17
Speaker
raising their kids basically and it's just like you could pick out something from literally every single chapter of this book to love and like we all have our books with us right now like just here it's like the amount of tabs and highlights that we all have is actually insane um like i'm just like scrolling through and like i swear every single page has something in it
01:32:41
Speaker
But I think we're just gonna go like each talk about like our favorite kids and maybe like a couple specific moments. Because like I said, there's just not really an overarching plot. And you could pick out something from everywhere. There are 13 cousins, which is crazy, right? So like Kendra mentioned, when we were talking about the long way down in that epilogue, we find out that Lily and Lo had four kids, which of course, they were terrified when they got pregnant to even have one. So the fact that they intentionally went and like
01:33:09
Speaker
felt like they could bring more kids into the world and be good enough parents for them. Oh my God. So there's four for Lily and Lo. There is Mafi, Luna, Xander, and Kenny. Kenny. Kenny, yes. So cute. And then the Cobalt's have seven. Oh, Kayla, name them.
01:33:32
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay. I'm gonna look like such a fake fan if I don't. Okay, okay, I got this, you guys, I got this. We got Jane, the twins, Charlie and Beckett. We have Tom, we have Elliot, we have Ben, and we have Audrey. You did it, yeah. We're going in age order too, we're saying these all in age order. Was that an age order? I think I messed up.
01:33:55
Speaker
Did I? Okay, cool. Cool, cool, cool. Thank you. Someone's gonna be like, no, that was wrong. And then again, we mentioned this when we were talking about the long way down. Of course, we saw Sully be born in the long way down for Rike and Daisy's child. So Sully was born. And then in some kind of perfect, we watch Rose carry
01:34:18
Speaker
their second baby Winona as a surrogate. And it's a very beautiful plot point in this. So they have two kids. They have Sully and Winona. Yeah. And that's- Well, technically, I guess there's 14 cousins because we got to count Willow and Garrison's baby too. Oh my God. You're so right. How dare I? Why am I forgetting her name? Vanna. Me too. Vanna, you're right. You're right. Thank you.
01:34:45
Speaker
Oh yeah, just my girl. That was their thing. I can't remember if you learned this in the bad rep duet or in some kind of perfect, but the reason that they only have one kid is because Garrison had a horrible relationship with his brothers.
01:35:01
Speaker
And they agreed that they were just going to have one child. So they just had Fanna and that was their family. And same with Willow, like she didn't really have the best relationship with her sibling either or outside of Lowe's. So I really like that they made that decision. Because everyone else around them is like, baby, baby, baby, baby. Like it was a lot. You know, one thing about this book is you hardly ever, if ever, see Rose not pregnant. She stays pregnant.
01:35:29
Speaker
She stayed pregnant. You know how people were like, Aesop Rocky, like, you need to get off Rihanna? Like, if Rose and Connor were real people, we would have been like, Connor, like, get off of her. Like, give her a break. She's never not pregnant. Like, it's scary. Yeah, there are some great moments of her pregnancy and her, like, the births of all the kids. And yeah, but let's, you guys have, let's talk about favorite kids. So, we're talking specifically in some kind of perfect. We've read some like us books.
01:35:59
Speaker
Um, no comment, but let's talk. Okay. We are commenting. We do not like the, like a series. We like Jane's books, but, um, I also really like charming like us. I'm sorry to stay on track, on track for your guys favorite kids in some kind of perfect. Kayla, you go first. Okay. Well,
01:36:21
Speaker
I mean, I don't think it's really a big old shocker to anybody, but Jane, I think like if I have to pick like my top like two, it's Jane and Charlie. I love Jane. I just, I think what I enjoyed about Jane was that they didn't try to make her a mini Rose or a mini Connor. They made her her own person and Connor and Rose really allowed her to be that. She's kind of eccentric.
01:36:49
Speaker
especially when it comes to like fashion and whatnot. And I also love the relationship that you see between Jane and Sadie, their cat. That scene when Sadie dies, she finds her in the closet, love that scene. And then Charlie, I really love, I mean, Charlie is kind of like a mini Connor, but I, there's a scene in some kind of perfect when Charlie is having trouble with people at school and
01:37:18
Speaker
the thing like that you kind of learn about Charlie is that while Connor is like a chameleon and able to adapt to different people, Charlie's not really able to do that. He just always is who he is all the time. And people, lots of people don't like that. And so Connor kind of has a conversation with him about that. And I love the relationship between Charlie and Connor. And I think you even see that a lot through the white guest books where Connor is just kind of like guiding him and
01:37:42
Speaker
Charlie's constantly leaning on him. I won't spoil too much of that series because there's a lot. Well, we don't even have Charlie book yet. But anyway, and so those are my favorite kids. But I also love in this book, I love Xander. I love Beckett. I love I do like mafia in this book, but not in the rest of the series. I love I love the two troublemakers Tom and Elliot. Yeah, those are
01:38:12
Speaker
I basically just like named almost all the children. Yeah, you're like, I love every single kid. Yeah. Yeah, I think my favorite kid in this book is probably well, the kid that I connected with the most is Luna. I think Luna
01:38:30
Speaker
i think of the scene with luna going to that sleepover what was that bitch's name that little kid she has an awful name she does what is her name i'm gonna go find it so she goes to sleepover with this like horrible kid from her school and they prank her and they like make her pee herself and they write um what do they write on her head
01:38:48
Speaker
It's weirdo. It's weirdo. They're weirdo in her head on Sharpie. On Sharpie. Are you kidding me? She's like a five, six year old kid. And at this moment, like Lowe's like struggling with his sobriety because Jonathan just died again. So he will again. Jonathan just died. I think about that scene all the time, too. The mom of this girl realizes that like they bullied Luna. So she calls Lowe and Lily and Lowe goes to like pick her up because they all live in the same neighborhood.
01:39:18
Speaker
And it is the most like heart wrenching scene in low. It's just like, he feels so bad for his daughter. And I just was in so much pain. Um, so I think about that scene all the time. And then you get like the twins showing up. Uh, and they also know Elliot and Tom, Elliot and Tom. Oh yeah. Well, I, you know, it's so crazy. I view them as twins because they're so like, what do they call it? Like Irish twins when they're born in the same year?
01:39:43
Speaker
Cause they're only like nine months apart or something like that. Yeah. And they're, they're like best friends as brothers. They are the troublemakers. They're not the actual twins. So that Rose and Connor have, but they show up and they're like, they're for Luna and they're like such good, uh, friends to her. I thought that was so cute. So I love Luna, um, a lot. And then I also really love Jane as well. Like I think she was such a great, just such a great character.
01:40:13
Speaker
Oh, her name was Jeffra. See the bully, her awful name. Awful name. She sucks. And she comes back. She's a bitch there too. What are the other I think there's I had another kid that I also really Oh, I really love Charlie in this book too when they go to Disneyland, when
01:40:31
Speaker
Brandi and I went to Disneyland together for the first time. We like kept picturing like the Corsics and all their kids there because that's such a big moment in this book because I'm like spending all this time at Disney. And it was just funny to be like, oh my gosh, like they went here, they went there. Yeah. And I was talking about them like being escorted like around backstage because they would have drawn too much attention. And then we saw Sterling K. Brown there and like literally that's what was happening. Like he was being escorted. Oh yeah.
01:40:59
Speaker
ride. But yeah, my favorite kids, also Luna, like immediately Luna was just like so quickly my favorite. I think just because like she is so sensitive. She's the parts of Lily that I really, really love. Like very sensitive and odd and like her own person. And that scene, that scene where Lo picks her up from the sleepover that Kendra was just talking about, I, that's probably my favorite scene in this whole book. It's the one I think about the most.
01:41:27
Speaker
But yeah, it's definitely my favorites are Charlie Luna and Kenny, who is the youngest hail. She's just so funny, which I don't know. Have the same birthday. Cute. I wrote that in my book when they like get to her birthday. I was like, Oh, Kayla's birthday. So, um, as far as like scenes that stick out to me in this one, like I just said,
01:41:51
Speaker
that sleepover scene is definitely the one. And then also just like the goodbyes at the end, like the hail goodbye, Lillian Lowe's goodbye. The way I was gasping for breath when I was, I was reading this at like 1am. Daniel was asleep next to me so I was trying not to wake him up and I was like
01:42:14
Speaker
Oh my god, I don't know. I just didn't wait until the next morning, but yeah the hail goodbye We're Lily and lower like we deserve this. Oh Because like they're just like looking at their kids and they're together and they're like we deserve this life. Oh
01:42:30
Speaker
that oh my god. We often talk about how this book is very much just like Caballoy and Lilo's. I mean you have like you have Rose constantly giving birth throughout this entire book and then you have Lily and Lo having like such just great moments like of them navigating parenthood and like running their businesses. Yeah I also was like just flipping through my book
01:42:58
Speaker
you guys know I'm a big Rose low alternate universe person. I would write hashtag Rose low forever throughout this book. Anytime Rosen low would have a good scene because Rose low really good scene in this book. They do. Also, Rose and for each other and loving each other. Yeah, Rose and right have a good scene where they're like out to like lunch together, which is like it was like so like awkward for them. So I do
01:43:21
Speaker
I think it's this scene, or there's another scene where Jane gets in trouble at school for kissing a boy. Yeah, and so one day at lunch, and then they go. And both of them go in, and they're like, what? He's going. They're like, kids. And it's amazing. Yeah. Because like, imagine if Lo would have showed up too. Like, everyone at that school would have been aired out. Oh my gosh. So good. Also like, Rose and Rike, they would have had a great time together. My god, Kendall. You just want all of them to fuck each other. You do.
01:43:50
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my god, yeah. But there's just like, I'm just like flipping through my tabs and just every single thing that I have tabbed, I could just talk about forever. But I am going to say one quote, and then I'll stop talking. But there's from Lowe's perspective, this is before they have Kenny. But the sentence is, mafia Luna and Xander fill this deep place in my heart that only Lily could ever reach, which is like, so big because
01:44:19
Speaker
They're so codependent, Lilly and Lo, through the majority of this series, right? And Lilly's like the only person who can reach that part of Lo, that like the best part of him, and for so long. And then yeah, his babies!
01:44:35
Speaker
Oh my god, there I can say a lot about those evil twins, but I'm giving us this book. I know. I can kiss them on the lips. I want so many authors like after you read this, you're like, why aren't more authors doing this? Like just writing those moments, because you know, a few episodes ago, Kayla was like, I read about, you know, John and Calla doing all these like mundane, everyday life things. And you actually like get this, get that in this book, like,
01:45:00
Speaker
Like it's them like picking out a movie to watch. It's them going to school. It's them just like running their business. Oh my God. What's your favorite scenes, Kayla? Well, I already talked about a couple so I won't, I won't say too many. I could say so many, but I will just say, cause you mentioned the Lilo goodbye and obviously I have to mention
01:45:19
Speaker
because it's the Kamala Way Wednesday family dinner. That's such a good one, the Wednesday family dinners. Like I would be absolutely remiss if I didn't mention a Wednesday family dinner, but the very end, the whole scene is basically like Ben is essentially saying that he's going to run away. So they're comforting Ben, but the thing that I think about when I like think about the Wednesday dinners in the farewell is it's the very beginning of Connor's POV chapter in the farewell.
01:45:49
Speaker
And he says, there are many truths in my life, but as I stand opposite rows across the table with our many beautiful children, I wield one that I condemned for years on end. I'm in love with so much more than just myself. This truth will never fracture. So again, it's always coming back to, you know, old Connor would have never said anything like that. And then the ending of the chapter is all of the children, you know,
01:46:15
Speaker
talking about how they're a family, how they're all together. And he says, every child meets our eyes, smiling as though they've obtained knowledge and secrets of the world, each individually unique, each with a mind of their own, each proud and in love with who they are, I expected no less.
01:46:35
Speaker
And then of course, it ends with their, their Kabbalah way. Ensemble. Yeah. Wait, I actually I found a Rose low moment. It's actually my iconic one. And what chapter is this? It's chapter 18. And Rose, they just like went back and forth. They're bickering.
01:46:57
Speaker
But then Rose ends it and she goes, it's so easy to hate Lauren Hale. And it can be just as easy to love him. She goes, Lauren might not have been a Callaway sister, but he's more of a brother to me than any other man in my life. That I love that quote so much. Oh my god. See, you guys, we can just talk forever. We're like, oh yeah, and this scene and this scene. Oh, there's something written on every single page. Like there's not a single line in here that I was like, I would have cut that I would have cut that like,
01:47:26
Speaker
Obviously, I'm not the huge, like the biggest Rike and Daisy fan, but like even their moments in here, there are so many great moments for them in this book. And then of course, the iconic last line of the entire book. And then we end, we end where we started just us, all six of us.
01:47:45
Speaker
Oh, when when as it was by Harry Styles came out, I think like people like took that and they like were making all these core six edits because it fits like the vibe so well. Oh, what a series you guys look like there is just no way that we could have done this in one episode because there's just so much to talk about. There's so much to love about this book or the series rather.
01:48:10
Speaker
yeah yeah and it's been fun being a part of like well i don't know if i'm a part of the fandom but it's been fun like watching people talk about this series now that i am on the inside because for so long i was just like why are people like obsessed like why like i don't get it but now i do get it because you feel very at home by the time you get to the end of this like you know them as characters so well like kbr with plot you know they're not that great at it let's be honest they can use some work but as
01:48:38
Speaker
Character like they write some really good character driven stories. Like I think they're cold the cobalt kids Amazing how they gave them each their own personality Like you know the kids so well by that you by the time you get to the end of this book every single last one of them and that even getting to like a series of cobalt kids are like the best part of the entire series like everyone's like wins the cobalt empire series coming out and
01:49:04
Speaker
God, like us, what a fumble. It makes me so upset when I think about it sometimes. Like, I don't remember if we talked about this in the first episode, but that is the series that like solidified our friendship because we, the three of us and our friends, yeah, we were like buddy reading and we were so excited. We were like, oh my God, we're starting tomorrow. Like I can't wait to talk about it. And then we were reading and we were like,
01:49:28
Speaker
We were like going through the first one. We were like, oh. It's a book. It works. And then we all concluded, we were like, this is like not. This is amazing. Yeah, I think by the second, we knew that we were going to love it. Krista and Becca Richie have a Patreon where they write extended scenes, bonus scenes, all this stuff. There are scenes on that Patreon.
01:49:56
Speaker
that are 10 times better than anything that they put out with the Like Us series. Like I don't get it. I really don't. I think that series is so sloppily put together. There are like three good books that I that I would give that series. Other than that it's just so
01:50:14
Speaker
disappointing. And it makes me so sad because there'll be moments with like core six, or I'm like, I don't think core six because like, I just spent 10 books knowing these characters, I don't think they would have reacted that way. Because in like us, there's a whole incest plot line. Like, think Jane and mafia like believe it. They like yeah, and I'm like over their kids.
01:50:32
Speaker
I'm like, that would never happen. Also, I hate that like it was cute in this book that like, oh, all the cousins are friends. But then unlike us, they only have you don't have any other friends, like no other friends like that way. And y'all went to like school with like other people like, you know, other friends like so many things about like we can do a whole other episode on like us and like, but that we refuse to let that diminish our love.
01:51:00
Speaker
for these books. And we really do, you guys. I think about them all the time. Lily and Lo are my favorite book couple of all time at this point. Like I love them. All time, really? Oh, yes. Like are these my favorite books of all time? Absolutely not. Lily and Lo, though, are my favorite couple. Like who would come second after them? Not in like Addictive, but like overall.
01:51:26
Speaker
It's like it's hard for me to think about couples because when I think about characters I love oftentimes they're like individual like apart from their other couple like I love Knox Eden but like and I love him in Memphis together but it's not like I'm like they're my favorite couple you know what I mean like yeah and I like I love Nora and Charlie but I love Nora you know and there's all that but I mean probably Christian and Daisy as like an entity probably Christian and Daisy yeah but final thoughts
01:51:56
Speaker
I'm glad that I read this series. Yeah, RCC, this is love. What is the thing that all the kids say? Cobalt's never die. Thank you. Cobalt's never die. That's my final thought. You know what my final thought is?
01:52:16
Speaker
in another I keep saying in another universe this series would have been maybe a slightly more interesting if Reich fell in love with Lily in Ricochet and it was a love triangle that's what I think about all the time. If you want to love if you want to love triangle just read Magnolia Parks. Well yeah yeah yeah I mean that's not really a love triangle but
01:52:39
Speaker
Yeah. Think about it. You want more messiness. You want more messiness. I love messiness. And I think this series just needed a little bit more sometimes. I think there should have been some consequences for some of these characters' actions. And there aren't a lot of consequences for their actions. Or they're not consequences that I think there are a lot of fakeouts. Yeah. But again, I think, but back to what I was saying, falling in love with Lilly, I think, would have made for a great plot line, especially because Lo would have been at rehab.
01:53:10
Speaker
Imagine it, sit on it, think about it, marinate with it. And again, low and rose. Perfect enemies to lovers. I don't think they would have a romance. They would have just a very good, like they would end in tragedy. Not like low and rose, but it would be hot. Somebody write the fanfiction for Kendra so that she can live happily pleased. I have all this mapped out in my head. Like I can give you all the plot points. I just need someone else to write it.
01:53:39
Speaker
My final thoughts are, are these the best written books in the world? No. Do they have the best plots? No. Do they have the best characters even? No. No. Do I love them with my whole heart? Yes. They have some of the best characters, not all of them, but they do have some of the best. Yes. I love these books so bad. Are they gonna be for everyone? No. Do they have their problems? Yes. Do I love them? Yes.
01:54:06
Speaker
i'm so glad you're going into it yet thinking you're gonna get some amazing technical writing then you're going to it for the wrong reasons you're going to it for the wrong reasons also be prepared to have a very interesting parasocial relationship with the authors of this book i call them the evil twins they don't even know that i exist and you're gonna see them at book bonanza and lie to their face about how much you love them oh yeah i'm gonna be like oh my god hi i'm your biggest fan then i walk through me like twins
01:54:32
Speaker
Kristin and Becca thank you so much for writing these books like they changed my life. I can't believe Kristin and Becca had the nerve to sit there and write XYZ ABC like it's so funny. I mean you're gonna call them evil again because they're not even reading any of the Addicted Books too. Again like why? Wait actually I think I know why because I think it's because Addicted Books are now picked up by a publisher and I think that these can only sell
01:54:58
Speaker
I guess that makes sense. I mean, I'm bringing all my books and I want character signatures. I want everything. Yeah, hopefully. I will hunker down in their eyes. We're fake as fuck. We're like, they're so evil. We're so and they're like, we are going to be staying in their line. We need to get our returns for them. Please, please, please.
01:55:22
Speaker
Yes, we think you guys should read the Addicted Callaway Sister series and let us know all of your thoughts, message the podcast. To be fair, the people that have listened this far have probably read this series. If you've listened this far and you haven't read the series, good luck.
01:55:38
Speaker
We love you. We hope to do more deep dives soon. Absolutely. While we were recording this, we just thought of so many other series that we would love to do this kind of deep dive with. It was so fun. Yay. We did it. Wow, that was long. Good job, guys. Good. All right. See you next time. Bye. Bye.