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Waitlist: Marvel Land
876 Plays3 months ago
On This Episode
On this episode of the Waitlist, the guys discuss a rumor that Universal Studios is actively developing a replacement for Marvel Super Hero Island and what that may mean for Walt Disney World.
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Transcript
Introduction to Welcome Home Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
This is Skipper Albert A. Wall, the voice of the jungle, broadcasting on the DVC to all points unknown. If you're within the sound of my voice, you're listening to Welcome Home Podcast on the DVC.
Hosts Introduction and Show Format
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the waitlist. This is, uh, you know, I got Trevor with me here. And for those that don't know, this is, uh, like our little topic based show that we do every once in a while when we're not around for one reason or another, right? It was a good reason this week, I think. Yeah, I was, I was busy. So Tom was busy. And, uh, because of that, we are.
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't anything bad. He had a good time. I'll let him decide if he wants to share with you what it was.
Delayed Recording Due to Concert
00:00:58
Speaker
No, I just I went to a concert. That's all. Yeah, let's just say that. No. Yeah, let's just say that I went to a concert, had a great time. It was a good time. But and you know, it's it's always hard to do this show ah when any of us have like something going on during the weekend because you know, it can make it a little bit difficult to get availability together. So um and yeah. And this is a Sunday night thing now that we're recording. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, it just it worked out that we none of us could get together because, you know, yeah, there was that thing going on and then, you know, work schedules and all that just didn't work
Speculating on Rumors: A Disclaimer
00:01:34
Speaker
out. So so we're getting a wait list this week. And I think I think this is a good one. You know, I think this will be a good yeah topic of conversation. So I have to thank Dan Kay for this one for spotting this one because ah
00:01:47
Speaker
You know, this is this is an interesting topic. And listen, you know, this is I wish I had my reckless speculation song created because this is this is that's all we're going to do on this on this waitlist is recklessly speculate. So I'll say on the front end, everything we're about to discuss is a rumor and not, you know, confirmed. ah You know, there's no there's going to be we're taking a blog and you know recklessly speculating on the blog post. To that point, ah who I don't know who said it in the Discord. Oh, as Jason said it. um It's WDWNT. Okay, never mind.
00:02:27
Speaker
yeah i listen yeah that was it i have a hidden little bit out there yeah I have a history with those people, right? And and they do have legitimate sources with within Disney. That doesn't mean they're right all the time, but they're not always wrong either. They do they do get things right sometimes so and this is sometimes. Sometimes the stuff that they post, it does spark enough discussion that you do actually get an official response from it. so even though That's true. Yeah.
00:02:53
Speaker
even though it doesn't necessarily have a basis. In fact, sometimes it's just a good jumping off point to see things happen. Yeah, actually years ago, I remember that they had reported that there was going to be like a Toy Story show replacing country bears and Disney came out and was like, not true. Squash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. they They squashed it pretty quick, which was kind of nice to see that, you know, they, they responded to it instead of letting the rumor run rampant.
00:03:15
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. So maybe we'll get some pull because of this rumor. So never know. So what I this is really an interesting one because it's it's you know, it's it's a rumor that it kind of expands out outward and you'll see what I mean in a sec.
Universal's Rights to Marvel Discussion
00:03:29
Speaker
So ah the rumors indicate that Universal Creative, which is, you know, their version of Imagineering, is currently developing plans that will replace Marvel's superhero island at Islands of Adventure.
00:03:41
Speaker
So what does this mean? right So I think everyone knows. right oh not i Maybe not everybody knows. I don't know. I was actually talking with this my family ah ah with this you know with my family about this. and And they weren't aware of this whole thing where you know you can't have Marvel at Disney World. So those that don't know, right years ago when Marvel was very desperate for money,
00:04:04
Speaker
Um, they signed a not great, but that they made a pact. They, they made an agreement. yeah Exactly. Uh, they made an agreement with universal, uh, to provide their characters for their parks. And one of the, uh, caveats of that was that they could be the, they would be the only, uh, amusement park allowed to use Marvel characters east of the Mississippi river.
00:04:34
Speaker
ah And I mean, literally I'm looking at the actual contract right here, East of the Mississippi, any other theme park is limited to using the characters not being used by the MCA. So if if like, you know, part of the reason why we have Guardians of the Galaxy at Disney World is because it's not part of like this contract, right? It's not part of like the, they're not part of the Avengers necessarily from the comics. They're not, you know, part of any of those groups, those kinds of things. So Disney was kind of able to get away with that.
Why Disney Wants Marvel Rights Back
00:05:00
Speaker
But, you know, East of the Mississippi, and it's obvious, listen,
00:05:03
Speaker
Obviously, Universal put this in here specifically so Disney could never do this. right ah yeah they i mean they They obviously did this for that for that purpose. so um Interestingly enough, ah the other part of this too is this deal was in perpetuity, right so meaning it it it never expires. it like It's there as long as Universal wants to make use of it. Exactly. yeah Yeah. Exactly as long as they want to do it. I've been saying for a long time now that I think that Disney will try to get these rights back.
00:05:35
Speaker
because Marvel is way too big of a property. ah We were talking about this on the Discord. um you know that it's I think it's probably Disney's most valuable IP at this point. right like i mean If you look at it, the MCU by itself is is valued by by some ah over $50 billion dollars just for the MCU. So I think Disney wants these
Rumor: Marvel Superhero Island Replacement
00:05:58
Speaker
rights back.
00:05:58
Speaker
right ah So this rumor says to me that and in this if this ends up being true and they do decide to remove the stuff and and change it, and this is in the contract, that if basically if they remove all of the Marvel-related characters from the park, it terminates the agreement automatically.
00:06:20
Speaker
So if there's no Marvel left. Yeah. And I believe that's because of the the wording. There's something about the wording in it. Yeah. That they have to keep using the characters in in the scope of like.
00:06:34
Speaker
They can't just like have like a ah booth somewhere in the park and go, well, we're using them, so it's fine. it They have to be like used to an extent where it's like, hey, this is like a land, and not specifically a land, but like a a high quality ah theme park experience.
00:06:51
Speaker
so yeah So, you know, knowing that, you know, as soon as, you know, if Universal suddenly decided to stop doing that or, you know, you know, take out this whole land that they have towards it, that does break the contract because. Yeah, I think. god Sorry, Trevor. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the the thing, ah the thing about that is that it's.
00:07:15
Speaker
um I also kind of see this as um like you know that that part of the contract kind of stuck for me when I was reading that. that yeah you know it's that It almost sounds like you know it might be hitting a point where you know you know they're talking about replacing because maybe they can't keep maintaining it to the level that they're and interpreting the contract at. like yeah you know we're we're ah We're always thinking about this from like you know you know Disney wants it back, Disney is going to take this, but maybe Universal is also getting tired of it too.
00:07:46
Speaker
Like that it's kind of a a weird yeah angle to approach it from, but maybe they're realizing that, you know, you know, the stuff that they have in there is incredibly dated at this point. Well, and they do have to they do have to pay Disney for this, right? So there's a there is an annual fee that they pay to Disney to have these, you know, they're paying it to Marvel, which goes to Disney.
00:08:06
Speaker
So yes yeah they they are basically paying Disney. I don't know how much it is. It doesn't say in the agreement that you can see here, it's kind of marked off. But, you know, it ah I'm assuming it's the in the millions of dollars, right? um And, you know, that there's a couple things now, you know, because Disney owns the Simpsons, too, and and the Simpsons are are in in their parks. and Yeah, they're they're just handing IP money to to Disney for to keep the park running. which Pretty much.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, it is kind of weird. yeah The thing the interesting thing to me though, like, I don't think there's any way that Universal just gives this up, right? Like, like, they're gonna, they're gonna agree to cancel this contract for some, you know, amount of money from Disney or, you know, maybe they'll do like what they did with Oswald and they'll ah pull off a trade, you know, like they they traded out Michael's ball player for He's a football announcer. It's worse. It's a football announcer for Oswald. Now, this is a lot bigger, right? So it would really have to be it have to be something big. And I don't know if there's really anything that Universal wants that Disney has, right? And that Disney will want to give away, you know? So, like, the swap scenario to me is not something I would see. I think this is going to be like... I disagree. Oh, really? Okay.
00:09:26
Speaker
so disney So we just finished hearing about you know how Imagineering is kind of ramping back up at Disney. ah and And I know that Imagineers move back and forth, but maybe that's actually an angle that um Universal could be approaching for this, is that you know they could say, fine, you want this IP back, or you want you know you want this Marvel stuff back. We want somebody from your side to help us to create something to replace it.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. that That's kind of an an
Financial Impacts of Universal's Deals with Disney
00:09:56
Speaker
interesting way to say, you we'll give you this, but you help us replace it. now here's the What's even more interesting, would would Disney agree to that? I don't know if they would.
00:10:06
Speaker
I feel like they would ah yeah because because it it's actually in their best interest. Yeah. To to play ball on that level because um it is mutually beneficial, even if there's some even if um Imagineers are developing something for universal. um I think I think there is some leverage there that universal could use like I like I yeah I don't I don't believe that Universal is entirely like, well, we're doing our own thing over here, and you you know, if it's not, you know, monsters or Nintendo or whatever, we don't want to talk to you. Yeah, I know. I don't think they're they're like we we like to believe that there's like this, this old school, like, you know,
00:10:53
Speaker
like West Side Story fight going on between Disney and Universal, I don't think it's like that. I actually agree with you because they they will often, ah you know, I've heard Disney say many times that Marvel, I mean not Marvel, I'm sorry, Universal doing well helps them.
00:11:11
Speaker
and them doing well helps Universal because the the people that they're bringing into the area, it's most of the time they're both benefiting in some way, shape or form, right? So like maybe, maybe not like, you know, I go on a trip now and I, you know, just go to Disney, but maybe next time I go to Universal, like it's you, you end up, you know, helping everybody, I think. But the interesting thing about this though too, Trevor, so according to this rumor, right? So, um,
00:11:37
Speaker
It says that Universal Creative is is developing developing plans for a Pokemon themed land. And they ah they currently work with Pokemon at Universal Studios Japan. And the Universal Studios Japan version of The Amazing so Adventures of Spider-Man is rumored to, it just closed recently for refurbishment and it's being rumored that it's gonna be re-themed to Pokemon. So that's part of this too is like, okay, well, if they're gonna do that at Japan, they could re-theme the Spider-Man one in the United States to Pokemon as well.
00:12:13
Speaker
um This also mentions too that you know this other rumors point to Pokemon taking over this the Simpsons
Universal's Pokemon-Themed Land Rumor
00:12:20
Speaker
Springfield. um and you know so And this article points out correctly, the Simpsons is another property that university Universal has theme park rights to, but is but has to pay Disney for, right? So you know it's with looking at that, you know maybe they just don't wanna pay Disney for this stuff anymore and maybe you know maybe that's what it is. But I still think,
00:12:43
Speaker
I just feel like the for the Marvel one specifically, Disney's going to have to buy them out. I just think they're going to have to give them a stupid amount of money for it. you know well but But hold on though, if this rumor is true though about them, again, you know the whole premise of the rumor is they're building something to replace marvel or yeah the Marvel Heroes Land, right? yeah So so if if that was actually going on and and it was this known at this point, or you know if if this information got out, that greatly diminishes
00:13:19
Speaker
the value of Disney buying it out because if Disney knew that they were building something new, they would just go, well, we'll just wait until you replace it. And then as soon as you replace it, either the contract code becomes null and void and we get it for free or you know they're able to negotiate you know pennies on the dollar, so to speak. I know they're still probably talking in millions of dollars, but yeah they get to to negotiate it at a much cheaper rate because there is leverage saying, you know well you knowre we're taking the or you're dumping it anyway, so it's not of any value to you, so you should give it to us for a reasonable price. right like like that yeah That's where my head goes with it, is that you know if this rumor was true,
00:14:04
Speaker
You know, it that would really hurt the the bargaining power we were just talking about that, you know, Universal would have. with Disney because they would, yeah, like I, I, I, I'm, that's not to say that it's not happening, but I feel like, I don't know. I feel like you, if this was happening, I feel like the whole universal Marvel thing would be further along or maybe, you know, let's play into it that, you know, maybe this has already happened and we just don't know about it. Maybe there, but there is something happening in the background so and you know we're we're going to start seeing it, you know, once,
00:14:40
Speaker
maybe the agreement is that once they announce whatever this new thing is, all of a sudden you'll start seeing, you know, Marvel merch popping up in Epcot or something. Yeah. Um, so it's, it's interesting though, like, cause I, I agree with you, Trevor, like we, we kind of said this, right? Where,
00:15:00
Speaker
even though we had, you know, D23 and we had all these announcements, Disney's still gonna announce more stuff and they already have announced more stuff and they're gonna continue announcing more stuff, right? And so, like, whatever this is gonna be at some point, it doesn't really mean that it, like, it doesn't need a D23 to announce it, right?
00:15:18
Speaker
um But you know what I think here is, you know to your point though, if they're smart, and I think Universal is probably pretty smart, they're going to get as much value out of this as they can, I would think. like i don't I don't think they would just give it up for nothing. you know unless But here's the other thing I don't know the answer to. like If they're paying Disney hundreds of millions of dollars for the license to this,
00:15:41
Speaker
then I mean, maybe it is just worth it to just give it up because they're pay paying so much out that there's, you know, Disney doesn't need to pay them yeah to break it. They're just going to save that money of, you know, paying for the license for it. I mean, because again, they're also paying for the Simpsons, too. But one of the things I have been talking about on the show for a while and those, you know, pay attention to business news,
00:16:02
Speaker
ah you know, a couple years back, ah Disney, when they bought Fox, they bought, they got a two thirds of the Hulu service, which I know you don't have Trevor in Canada. um And when they did that, they, they agreed to buy the last portion of it from Comcast, which is universal.
00:16:23
Speaker
So, and and they're in that that process right now. Disney already paid them for part of it, but there' there's a dispute of how much that last third of Hulu is worth.
00:16:34
Speaker
And I ah tend to believe, and like I said, I have no sources on this or anything. I just think that while they're having those kinds of negotiations that maybe they talked about this. you know Maybe this came up. Maybe you know Iger's wheeling and dealing over there. you yeah like Listen, hey, we'll pay a little bit more for the for Hulu. You got to give me the theme park rights back though.
00:16:56
Speaker
Or, you know, but it's it's interesting that I really wish I knew how much they paid them per year, because I think that really is what makes it right.
Disney and Universal Negotiations Speculation
00:17:03
Speaker
If they're paying them like, you know, $100 million dollars a year, it might be worth it for Universal to just cut it off, you know?
00:17:10
Speaker
And that's a fair point, too. So, you know, you know, thinking about that income flow that they have, you're right. You you know, you know, maybe this is why, you know, we we've also been looking at this as, you know, you know, mar ah Disney wants to buy or they should want to buy back Marvel because they can make money off it. And maybe Disney said they're going, yeah, we're making money off of it. You know, yeah, you know, whatever, yeah you know, they they don't have to do anything with it. And they're just getting, you know, income from it.
00:17:40
Speaker
Maybe this is the you know maybe the the new park being announced maybe that's actually not what disney wants which is kinda weird like you know if you think about it. That you know this now becomes an equation of you know they've been focusing on. The marvel IP stuff in all their other parks and they've been leaving florida pretty much alone because they haven't had to do anything with florida yeah. but if this suddenly stops being a thing at Universal, then they have to do something at Florida, and which they've already got a bunch of other stuff slated for Florida. So then it becomes, you know, yeah, then people are gonna go, when are when are we getting Avengers Campus East? yeah And they're gonna go, ah.
00:18:22
Speaker
Well, so ah but got ah sorry, Trevor, are you still going? I'm sorry um'm just I'm just laughing now at how like if you know after everything they announced, if suddenly it was like, and you've got marveled stuff to do, too, like that like that moment of panic. That blows everything up. Yeah. You don't have anywhere to put this. right Yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
Well, so I'm reading through the contract here too, right? So this is really interesting. ah Universal pays Marvel a certain amount, right of obviously. They pay them a certain amount per year. ah They also, and this gives them exclusive rights to use Marvel characters in Islands of Adventure and ah it also you know has an option for additional Marvel universes and other Universal theme parks.
00:19:03
Speaker
ah And is so Universal pays an annual fee to Marvel. And then also though, this is interesting, right? So um they pay an annual guaranteed merchandise advance. So basically there's a guaranteed amount that they get every year for merchandise royalties.
00:19:25
Speaker
That's a guaranteed amount, so it could go over that, and then they still get more, ah probably a percentage of some sort. um But- And even if there's no merch being sold, they're still paying. They're still getting a guaranteed amount. Yeah. And then, this is interesting too, all sums to be paid ah will be increased for each year after 1998 using the US national CPI. So they're actually increasing the fee every year based on inflation. So, which again, so this could be getting is is getting more and more expensive for Universal. This is why Universal wants out of it. And it's not. It's not that Disney can't afford to buy it off of Universal. It's that they've probably been milking it.
00:20:11
Speaker
Oh yeah, I'm sure. Universal as long as they could. ah that yeah i i know it's That's an interesting angle on this. yeah That's why I wanted to dig into this because I mean, I can i can dig into to ah to Disney's um you know to their to their annual reporting to the SEC and see if I can see. I mean, they they bury stuff, right? So like I doubt there's any way that I can see how much Universal's paying them. you know yeah The problem is with like contract licensing and stuff. you know you're You're never going to ah get a clear picture of like they're getting exactly X amount of dollars from Universal. It'll be more like, you know oh, here's all of our park investment. like They'll use like a fuzzy umbrella to say, like this is what we're getting from a bunch of different places. or like Yeah. like license It just falls into a bucket. yeah Because that's the thing. is you know This falls in, like this is in the same capacity as like, there's lots of companies that do, you know you'll see like
00:21:04
Speaker
You know, Disney Stanley
Challenges in Marvel Merchandise Sales for Universal
00:21:06
Speaker
mugs, right? And it's like you have a licensing deal with Disney for Stanley mugs. And so that this is in that same bucket. So yeah, you'll never see, you'll never see exactly what that percentage is that's coming from universal.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, so every time that Universal sells a Spider-Man something, a percentage of that goes to Disney. like you know here's Here's something else to think about with that too. is you know you know We talk about sometimes how the merch is bad in the parks right you know at at various points.
00:21:40
Speaker
the merch is not great i yeah and you know i guess to be fair i you know i am also kind of operating in a bubble that i'm mainly focused on disney stuff i don't i can't remember the last time anybody talked about merch coming specifically from the marvel area of the the universal park right yeah sure so it's like they're they're probably producing a whole bunch of merch there trying to sell stuff but the part that makes it even harder is because it is disney now and disney kinda has you know they reinvented the brand of marble.
00:22:13
Speaker
you know, with with the Avengers and all that, you know, people going into into Universal, it's like, oh, here's like an X-Men shirt or whatever. And it's like, unless you were like into X-Men back as a kid, which like, like you know, for for people my age, you know, definitely, yeah, I like, you know, the X-Men was a part of of my childhood and all that. And if I saw some X-Men merch, i would I would seriously consider looking at it.
00:22:40
Speaker
but they're not so that's not selling at the same volume as like an Ironman anything at this point or or just a vendor stuff. so so you know The fact that they're paying flat like minimum royalties even if they're not selling it and and they're actually like the the grounds for competition there Are way harder now because of all the work that disney's done you know try to sell what people would probably perceive as like this is like off brand merch even though it is official like and normal merch but it's not you know it's not as good as the disney stuff.
00:23:17
Speaker
that but That's all going to be hurting ah Universal's reasoning to keep this land around, right? It's it's an interesting thought. i You know, Disney's been kind of testing them on this for a while, right? Where they've been trying to see if they can push the limits of the contract and see if Universal will complain. You know, like they remember they did like a Doctor Strange meet and greet for like a month and then they like backed off of it.
00:23:41
Speaker
um and then yeah sorry disney lander did disney world no they did in disney world for like a month and then they backed off right i don't know if like universal said i'm like a cease and desist or something but i i also remember too that they were they tried to sell some marvel merch at disney springs thinking you know it's not part of the theme park but and then they didn't use like the names right it was i forget what it was it was like you know there's like a spider-man action figure and it was like you know spider guy, you know, like it's on the tag, like it just, you know, they had to make it like, dirt guy yeah this is a guy with shield. um you know um But and I don't remember if that how they actually put that. But, and you know, they also wrapped the monorails and in superhero stuff at one point. And, and you know, this article even actually mentions that and how silly that was, because they could only wrap the monorails that were going around them the Magic Kingdom loop.
00:24:36
Speaker
Because if they went on the up-cut loop they were technically going inside the park.
Disney's Guardians Use Through Loopholes
00:24:42
Speaker
Which is just silly. it's just silly yeah yeah I guess that's the funny thing is that yeah the the whole thing or the whole stipulation of this is.
00:24:53
Speaker
Marvel inside of a theme park. And yeah, like you said, Disney has been stretching that by, you know, we're not in the theme park. I'm not touching you game. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, no, it's 100% what it is. Like, I think they're just waiting to get a cease and desist. Like, let's see. Well, and interestingly enough, you know, they did Guardians of the Galaxy and I'm assuming they had to have cleared that with Universal first, right? Because eight Or at least established that it was far enough removed from the yeah main Marvel universe. that The same way like like big, like they kind of touched on that with Big Hero 6 and stuff too. That these were like non mainline IPs that were exempt, right?
00:25:37
Speaker
And it shows also in the merch, like if you go into the where you come out of Guardians, the the merch area in there, it's very clearly Guardians merch, not not Marvel.
Marvel Characters in Disney Parks Potential
00:25:49
Speaker
church Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, from what I've read, and i I actually don't see this necessarily specified in this contract that I'm looking at, but um because Guardians of the Galaxy are not part of the Avengers or part of X-Men or, you know, Fantastic Four or, you know, any, any of like the groups they- Although funny enough, they are in the main movies now, right? That's true. But I mean, are they technically Avengers? I don't know. No, they're not. Well, they're not really. They established that in the movies that they were their own. They're not Avengers. Yeah. They're their own thing. They're their own thing, right? So that's how Disney got away with that one. So I think where we should shift this now though, Trevor, is what happens if they do get it, right? Because you kind of alluded to this, right? Like what happens if they do get it? And I was saying this on the Discord.
00:26:39
Speaker
I think they go hard on this because, listen, Marvel, they're going hard on Marvel everywhere across the world. right And like I said, Marvel is maybe their most valuable property. right and And it's going to continue to be. right like you know They just look at how successful Deadpool and Wolverine just was. right like you know And i I think the MCU overall has like I think it's more than $20 billion in box office. I mean, it's incredibly successful, right? And I think, you know, having Marvel stuff in the parks would immediately be very popular. Like you would, a lot of kids will want to come, a lot of adults will want to come. I mean, you know, we talked about this before. I'm going on the cruise ship and they have like that superhero Academy for kids on there. I kind of want to go. But you know what I mean? I wanna hang out with the superheroes. Move, kid. Yeah, get out of my way, child. So, but I mean, I think what would happen personally, and this is what I think, Trevor, I think that the first thing you would see is characters popping up in the parks. And I'm guessing Hollywood studios. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that's where they fit the best, right? Like you'd see them pop. I think Hollywood studios would make the most sense. And you'd start seeing meet and greets and little shows and stuff, right? Like that's just the start, though. That's like step one. That's new Star Wars launch bay. Yes, exactly. That's the phase one. It'll be Avengers launch bay? I mean, maybe. Listen, I want to think that they just go with a land like they did at Disneyland, but I don't think they do. I think they go bigger than that.
00:28:19
Speaker
And the only reason I'm, and I'm not, I said this in the discord and I didn't really mean it. I was just kind of being silly.
Speculating a Marvel-Themed Disney Fifth Gate
00:28:26
Speaker
Uh, you know, fifth gate of just Marvel, make it a Marvel park, right? The whole thing. I don't think that actually is a terrible idea. I think that would be really popular. Just more, you want Marvel, the Marvel campuses, you know, second exit on the way to, you know, boardwalk.
00:28:44
Speaker
like yeah yeah that's i mean Like, listen, we so so and I mentioned this, right? Remember when we were looking at the Disneyland forward plans and you saw that there was a it was it was small, but you could see where they had built in the in the concept art Wakanda, right? Like they literally had a whole Wakanda section. Like if you think about Marvel as a whole, it is one large IP. And there are so many characters within that you could do different lands within the park of all these different superheroes. You can have a whole Spider-Man land that's, you know, just, just New York, just New York. Yeah, you can have Wakanda there. You could have Asgard. I mean, you could, you could do all of that. Yeah. And I think, and I, yeah, an Avengers campus. I mean, and I just had this idea right now, Trevor, you could turn the the former Galactic Star Cruiser into an Avengers hotel. Boom. Like,
00:29:36
Speaker
How cool would that be? and I mean, what would would it fall into the same mistakes as the Star Cruiser? Maybe? Probably. yes ah But well the problem with that is has always been that it's too small. And because it's so small, it costs too much money to run, right? Yeah. yeah Well, ah yeah, the cost was really the the biggest.
00:29:55
Speaker
ah Prohibitive thing about it was a what they were doing was way too ambitious. But no, the the the point still stands. I I I see where your line of thinking is on this and i and I don't disagree that, you know, you know, a fifth gate devoted entirely to Marvel would be an interesting prospect. And again, you know, based on the fact that, you know, everything else that they announced to 23 has been um improvements to the existing parks and, you know, adding on I don't see how they could, you know, you know, if suddenly it was, you know, Marvel was starting to pop up in the parks. Yes, there would, there would definitely be that, that demand. They're going, you know, yeah, we've got the meet and greets. That's great. When are you doing the Marvel ride or, you know, whatever, whatever the big thing is. Right. And I mean, the, I agree with you that, you know, a fifth gate would be, you know, that would definitely blow everybody's mind, but,
00:30:52
Speaker
In lieu of that, I also could see them like, you know, we're we're getting an expansion to Magic Kingdom. I actually think um Hollywood Studios could do with a ah big expansion too. And then the weird thing about that is it becomes a, the the the debate is then, you know, Marvel or Star Wars.
00:31:14
Speaker
right? Which Disney's kind of put themselves in that position where like it feels like you like you know you enter I only have so much energy and time and I have to kind of pick, you know do i want to do I want to look at Marvel stuff or do I want to look at Star Wars stuff? And you know right now, i'm I am more interested in the in the Marvel stuff, particularly but like you know to your point about even um You know you know lands and stuff like i'm i'm very interested i'm waiting until the couple of the episodes come out but i'm i guess i heard the new i got along yeah is coming out here and i you know i want to kinda get a backlog of it so i can binge watch. You know a bunch of them but it's like hey that plays in with villains lands pretty nice and so yeah there's there's all this.
00:32:01
Speaker
there's all this pent up potential. I think that, you know, you know, they, they haven't even touched on it, but like you said, it's, you know, you know, could there be enough momentum there for a fifth gate? Maybe like, like I, I, I wouldn't say it's a, it's a sure like slam dunk. I think it's a maybe, but, but I, the way I see it is, you know, I agree with you. You know, the, the, the characters would be the first thing. I think the next thing you'll see is the merch will be everywhere. Like it will it'll be just like,
00:32:29
Speaker
You won't be able to go anywhere in any park being without there being ah yeah a Marvel section. right like yeah so They'll find a way to put it in you know a momento mori.
00:32:39
Speaker
I mean, no you yeah, they'll have a Spider-Man theme to Memento Mori. It'll be an Agatha all along section of Memento Mori. It's so easy. like right if if If they put Marvel in Hollywood Studios, they should just rename that park to the park of acquired IPs because Pixar, Star Wars, and then and then Marvel all within the park.
00:33:04
Speaker
ah If you think about it, right? like that and no since but it do yeah up there an acquired i p two that yeah higher and yeah That entire park is literally IP that they they have bought, right? Um, which is fine. You know, I mean, I guess with the exception of Mickey mini and, you know, probably called a few other things, but, and frozen, you know, the shows, the other, there's beauty christ and the beast and fantastic. I call that right. But, um, yeah, yeah, winner. Yes. I've said this for a long time. I don't think a fifth gate's happening. I've i've said that, and I still kind of believe that. At the same time, I feel like somebody, you know, somewhere, if this is going to happen, is going to be, you know, like, just can't help themselves, right? now Because, again, this is, it's I think they want to do a whole huge Marvel park. The only reason they didn't do it at Disneyland is they don't have the space.
Implications of a Full Marvel Park at Disney
00:33:52
Speaker
Right i mean like they just don't have a lot of space there and so i mean that that's that's why they they fitted into where the the bugs land. Yeah area was which you know people you know people even say this is no you know the avengers campuses is okay but it's not it's not as good as it could be and i think that yeah you know space is the big.
00:34:12
Speaker
limit Well, and now they're going to build that e-ticket attraction. So that's going to help, right? So like they they needed to put that in. But listen, and I'm not saying they're going to build a whole fifth gate around Marvel. I'm just saying they could. Like I think it would work. And I think even though the movies have been not as, I mean, it's so funny because you look at some of these movies, right? And it's like, oh, like Ant-Man was, the last Ant-Man was like a failure and it still made more money than like pretty much every movie. like yeah so like They're still very popular and it's still very popular franchises. and you know I think there you know if you if you look at it, they're they've taken the feedback ah that they've gotten about it and they're pulling back. right They're going back towards quality as opposed to quantity right and that's like a big agar thing. right so
00:34:58
Speaker
um yeah i I do think that the MCU can be you know the thing again. ah It's just going to be interesting to see if this were to happen. Again, this is all rumor, right? like we have This has been rumored for a long time, too. So this is not even like new news at this point, right? But um if this is actually going to happen, I will be very interested to see how Disney reacts. And I also do want to mention, too, they you know when they just signed that recent contract with the ah district, right?
00:35:27
Speaker
like And it just got reported in a lot of weird ways where they said, oh, Disney's opening a fifth park. Some people did. But that's not what the contract said. It said that they have the option to build a fifth park if they want to. Right. Yeah. So, you know, it's possible they could. I mean, but you're talking it's going to cost, you know, four or five billion dollars and be, you know, a long time down the road if they were to do it. But um yeah, I don't know if this does end up happening. I'd be interested. And like you said, hear me out. They cancel Simpsons. Do they do something with Simpsons? I don't know. Probably. Right.
00:35:58
Speaker
ah hear Hear me out on this. okay that that i just you know Talking about all this, I don't think ah it would be crazy if we didn't get a fifth gate, but we actually got a gate 4.5.
00:36:12
Speaker
OK, so like a half park. So so yeah, so so here here's my thinking with this, you you know, thinking about, you know, you were talking about Hollywood Studios and the, you know, repurposing the star cruiser and everything.
Smaller Park Concept Linked to Hollywood Studios
00:36:23
Speaker
What if they built a land that actually it had its own entrance, it had its own gate, but they kind of did it how um like the Hogwarts Express functions in Universal where it connects between the two parks. Right. Like because there's the the Harry Potter stuff in both parks.
00:36:41
Speaker
And they use that as a bridge between both of those parks. What if they built something that was technically standalone, technically had its own gate, but wasn't wasn't an entire park per se? like Like, you know, we think of a park as like, you know, like Animal Kingdom or, you know, Epcot size park. But you know, what if this allowed them to build something smaller, but then had that connection back to Hollywood Studios, you know, via a, you know, something like I said, something similar to a Hogwarts Express kind of thing, because they have that in, you know, with the the Star Cruiser, they were kind of doing that, right? Well, that's how Peppa Pigland is set up at Legoland, right? Like, it's yeah it's next to Legoland, but it's it's separate from Legoland, right? But it has a like a connector to it, right? so Well, I mean, it just has a walkway in between the two, but yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah, but but that that's my point is, you know, maybe maybe it's not that, you know, Hollywood Studios, maybe maybe Hollywood Studios gets a second gate,
00:37:36
Speaker
because you know it's just a Marvel land thing. And and you know that would be, like you said, it would be big enough that it would justify having, you know instead of instead of Hollywood Studios being completely buried by it, you could have it like a section cut out of Hollywood Studios that then connects into this other space and it's kind of its own thing. yeah but it But like I said, that I think maybe we're we're all thinking gate five, maybe it's gate 4.5 that actually does happen.
00:38:06
Speaker
That's my crazy take on this. If I got anywhere close to right on this, I i don't know what i mean i need to go buy lottery tickets. ah but there was i mean There was something in the agreement around that, though too, where they they could um where Disney had the right to develop, I think, two smaller parks is what it said.
Exploring Disney's Smaller Park Options
00:38:25
Speaker
right? So like, this is kind of what you're talking about a smaller park, right? It's not a full on new fifth gate. It's a a smaller standalone park land, whatever. I mean, and you know, you maybe they even do it the way that Peppa Pig does it, right? Where I don't have to pay to let for Legoland to go to Peppa Pig, I can pay for both or I can pay for one. ah You know, so and I mean, you could maybe you could do that too. Maybe you make that as an add on to the ticket, you get access to Yeah, isn't that the case with the Harry Potter thing that if you want to go between them, you do actually have to have tickets that tickets will both. yeah Yeah. Yeah. So so, you know, there there is precedent for this. It's not out of remote possibility.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, I don't disagree. I'll be interested to see how this shakes out. Like I said, we have no information on this. We are reading this off a website. It is pure rumor, but I do think it's an interesting conversation because I would, i i if Universal really is planning on dumping, you know and I've said that, i you if you remember, I've said it's like for a while now that I find it very weird.
00:39:26
Speaker
that two of Disney's biggest pieces of IP are sitting in Universal Parks. It's weird. I mean, Marvel's there. Even though the Simpsons is not what it was. We weren't thinking about them getting paid for it either way. I didn't think about that angle for Yeah, so yeah yeah I and that once I saw that in the contract now I'm thinking like okay well maybe Disney doesn't have to pay them to buy them out because maybe Universal wants to stop paying them. Maybe Universal is tired of paying them all these licensing fees and it's not worth it to them anymore and they can bring in Pokemon which is also an extremely popular franchise right and. yeah I mean, the worldwide audience for Pokemon is insane. Yeah. like Well, they still have to pay for that, though, too, right? They don't own Pokemon. Yeah. Because it's it's not even owned by... It's not a Nintendo IP. It's owned by... What is the company? um Why am I blanking on this now? I think it actually is the Pokemon company. i'm goingnna I think it's it company. It's owned by the Pokemon company. I'm pulling this up very quickly. ah it is Yeah, it is the the Pokemon company.
00:40:33
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Gotcha. So yeah, so they're the ones that actually own Pokemon not. um So sorry, I was thinking the parent organization, I was thinking it was Game Freak is the original developer. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:46
Speaker
So I was thinking of Game Freak, but yeah, the Pokemon company is who they would be. Like, yeah, you know, it's, it is a big license thing. And yeah, of course they would have to be paying them money for it. But, you know, again, it's like, I'm not paying a competitor. Yeah. And also that they're not, they wouldn't be competing against the company in their own.
00:41:06
Speaker
Exactly. um In their own backyard, basically. Because that's really what Universal is doing right now, is that that that whole land is them competing against Disney with their own IP.
Universal vs Disney: IP Dynamics
00:41:17
Speaker
Which, you know, that that's got to be tough. It's just weird. You know, it's just a weird thing. it's like But it was an evolution, right? It it wasn't, yeah it wasn't a you know, that's the way it was from the get go. It was, you know, they had their their whole Marvel thing and then it was it gradually morphed into this.
00:41:34
Speaker
I think it's finally hitting the point where it's no longer sustainable for them. It makes sense that you know you know the rumor about this makes sense. you know yeah Again, you know none of this has any factual basis yet. We're we're just kind of speculating. but um you know i kind of I'm very curious to see you know if Universal does announce something around this.
00:41:57
Speaker
I'm like you said you know you know i want to see what the next steps are that disney takes on this because this is the that will be the exact moment when they have to start. Acting upon it and you know doing more than just you like you know throw throwing the um the basic merch around that. I'm you find a walmart wherever like they're actually gonna have to start getting some park merch and they're gonna have to actually start getting like characters and and you know doing stuff with it because.
00:42:26
Speaker
You know, I think as we've been saying, you know, a lot of people are kind of staring and going, you know, Disney, you know, you've got this everywhere else except Florida. When are we going to get it? Well, and it's like, as soon as they bought Lucasfilm, it was like, OK, well, when is Star
Marvel vs Star Wars: Popularity and Strategy
00:42:40
Speaker
Wars Lane coming? Right. like Because it's.
00:42:42
Speaker
ah no There's not a single person that saw that they bought Lucasfilm and was didn't think that they were going to put that in their park somewhere. It just had to happen. It's too big. and i you know I'd almost argue at this point that that Marvel's bigger than than Star Wars. right i mean star wars how hey I think it is. see people People are going to come at us for that. but No, I think it's true though. The thing about Star Wars is that I feel Star Wars is very niche, but whereas Marvel has managed to touch upon, like the but just the breadth of characters and storylines and stuff appeals to a lot more demographics then yeah yeah and and theyve they've just managed to like
00:43:27
Speaker
They've set it up in such a way that it's like, you know, even if you say, you know, I don't like Marvel, I can guarantee that there's one character somewhere in the Marvel universe that you're like, yeah, he's cool. Like, even Deadpool, like Deadpool is like the the anti thesis of of standard superhero characters and people love it. And it's, you know,
00:43:47
Speaker
like Like, but it's still Marvel. Like they can go, ha you know, that that's not like Captain America and all those other guys, but it's still Marvel. Like, yeah exactly exactly you can't get away from it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
00:43:59
Speaker
Alright, well we should, let's let's end this, yeah, and and I hope everybody enjoyed this. I actually really enjoyed talking about this, and again, a huge thank you to um to Dan Kay for alerting us to this, because this was ah really an interesting and interesting thing to talk about, and i will um I'm looking forward to actually seeing if this happens and seeing if we get an announcement of something in the future here and uh you know if it's if it's something i mean here's the thing right if it's an early development with universal we're probably not going to hear anything for a while right so but but but you know if if we hear something next year you know hopefully we remember that we did this wait list and we can go back and see how off base we were on it i will always remember chever
00:44:44
Speaker
course I think you guys know all the places you can find us, right? Facebook, Patreon, all that fun stuff, right? Do we want to do that whole thing? I can't remember all that right now. All right. Well, this is a way to email us and welcome home pockets at gmail.com. You can find us on YouTube, all those other places. ah You know, you can email us. I think everybody knows this. Find us on Facebook. i Yeah. Facebook, Instagram. Yeah. All the usual places. All the usual places. I would love to hear from everybody else too about this too. What do you think is going to happen? I want i want to know what everyone else thinking thinks going to happen. Like tell tell us what you think. So
00:45:22
Speaker
Alright, well this has been The Weightless. this is skipper alber a wall the voice of the jungle signing up from welcome home podcast on