Transcript
Speaker: Do you feel drawn to learn more about witchcraft and the occult but feel lost on where to start? then welcome to Get In Loser, We're Doing Witchcraft, a podcast all about what it means to be a witch and where to get started on your journey.
Speaker: Join us as we navigate through various witchy topics and share what we've learned about the craft. So get in, witches, as we talk about how magical practices can affect your mental health.
Speaker: Oh. Yesterday I went to a haunted farmer's market. Bye. So cute! I'm a - to go to a haunted farmer's market i think you would have really enjoyed it you need to come and see me in uh tacoma and we will go next year Yes.
Speaker: I wanna go. Yeah, it was cute. Get some spooky lettuce. Yeah. We didn't have, so I will say the. One of the scariest parts about it was they had this guy there who was.
Speaker: He was selling um like subscriptions for like a like a fruit vegetable and like meat delivery service. However, he was incredibly pushy. And so that was the scariest part. And I'm just like, no, it's okay. Like, well, why not? Like, I don't know. You just. I'd have been like, sir, are you part of the haunted house? Because you're really scaring me right now. Yeah. It was just.
Speaker: Like I'm intrigued by this concept and I really like it, but I'm completely turned off because you will not just let me go. um So that was frustrating, but.
Speaker: Everybody else was so sweet. There was this one company that does these it's like concentrate mixes for either mocktails or cocktails and so they try em all I got one that was like lavender honey and then another one like a spicy margarita one Anthony and I are sluts for like a honey lavender latte.
Speaker: it's so That like combination is so delicious. It really is. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And so I got that and then. There was this cute little candle um maker and she had the most witchiest like little candles. And I got one called Persephone and it smells.
Speaker: So good. um yeah I'm definitely coming out to go to that next year then yes and people are dressed up and like spooky costumes and stuff and it was just it was just so much fun it was cute Did you ever go to the occult night markets in St. Louis?
Speaker: No, I don't think I ever heard about it when we were living there. Jen and I went. At least once together. Maybe twice. It was so cute though. It was at like a little farm and they did it inside of a barn and outside they had like a fire pit going that you could sit around.
Speaker: And it had tarot reading and just all kinds of little witchy vendors. And it was the cutest thing ever. Yeah. I miss stuff like that. They don't really. do that they don't they do spooky out here which is weird to me Especially considering like Europe, like. is spooky just in general. In general, it's a vibe.
Speaker: Yeah. And that's how I felt when we were in England as well. I was so excited because I'm just like, oh my gosh, like. I bet the occult scene there is like really cool. And it's like. doesn't exist no it's like non -existent or if it's if it does it's very like below ground like i like i don't know anybody to obtain access to. this like it's not very It seems either very gatekept or it doesn't exist.
Speaker: I guess here it just doesn't really exist. So like occasionally. at the medieval markets. there'll be a vendor. Anyway, but we're not talking about that. No, no. What are we talking about today?
Speaker: we So I'm excited for this episode. We are talking about how magical practices can affect your mental health. Yeah, so kicking it off. If you are a longtime listener to the podcast, you already know this, but in case you are new here, we wanted to give a little bit of context before we jump into today's episode.
Speaker: Both Tiffany and I have backgrounds in mental health, I am a social worker, and Tiffany was a substance abuse counselor. So between the two of us, we have a lot of education and professional experience when it comes to behavioral health. And we wanted to make it very clear that we're not coming into this episode to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe or to diagnose anyone. We want to talk about something that is really important in both the mental health space and the magical community, and that is discernment. There is so much therapy language and mental health content online right now on TikTok, Instagram, podcasts, and everywhere else. And while increased awareness of mental health topics can be a good thing, we're also seeing people use psychological terminology without understanding.
Speaker: the nuance behind it. We see this with people self -diagnosing, diagnosing their friends, labeling other people's behaviors, or using therapy language as a weapon, which can cause more harm than good. And we've noticed that some of that language and those ideas are bleeding into magical spaces as well. So today we wanted to have a conversation about magic, mental health, and knowing your limits because we absolutely believe in exploring witchcraft, learn about it, research, experiment, ask questions. And we don't believe in gatekeeping your spiritual practice.
Speaker: But we also believe that part of practicing magic responsibly comes from knowing yourself. Some aspects of witchcraft can be beautiful and empowering and even healing, and others can be messy.
Speaker: Shadow work can bring up things that are uncomfortable or painful, and manifestation work can cause us to ask some pretty difficult questions about what we actually want and why we want it.
Speaker: Sometimes the magical work isn't the dramatic ritual you see online. Sometimes the work is incredibly mundane, like setting a boundary and going to therapy, applying for the job, leaving the relationship, or even apologizing. It's doing the uncomfortable emotional work that no spell can do for you.
Speaker: magic can be a tool, but it doesn't mean that we hand over all of our agency to that tool. This episode isn't about telling you where that line is for everyone, but it's about talking through some of those lines and recognizing what can be helpful, what can be harmful and reminding all of us that you should 100 % be taking care of your own mental health.
Speaker: Beautifully said. Episode over. That's it. No, just kidding. JK! So with that. We want to note that magic isn't inherently bad for your mental health.
Speaker: It's important to recognize here at the opening of this topic that your magical practice can be extremely healing and it can be a tool that you use to deconstruct past beliefs that were forced on you as a child even. And it can help you learn more about yourself too, who you are now versus who and where you want to be moving forward.
Speaker: It can provide community, meaning, connection to nature, opportunities for reflection, and comfort during difficult periods. And you should definitely lean into it when it's comforting or providing all of those feel -good moments for you as well. Yes. And I think like a huge elephant in the room when it comes to today is the TikTok therapist problem because it is so pervasive, not just in mental health spaces in general, but in magical spaces too. And so you see this a lot whenever you see like a specific behavior that a lot of us... have just inherently as human beings as flawed individuals just because you have a specific behavior doesn't necessarily mean you have the disorder order that is most likely tied to that behavior especially if it's like a super common one like walking into a room and forgetting why you're there
Speaker: Everybody on earth has that. That doesn't mean that... you have autism or something like, like it's just. you know whatever but and then having a trauma response and doesn't mean you have ptsd Someone being selfish doesn't mean that they're a narcissist and a disagreement between two people doesn't necessarily mean that one person is gaslighting you. Sometimes it just means that When you're having a disagreement, where you're so emotionally invested.
Speaker: both of you and the disagreement that you can say things that you don't mean. That doesn't mean that somebody is trying to manipulate you in this situation. I feel that like. especially today.
Speaker: having social media and having like content creators where it's like, oh, I make my money off of this. We get these keywords that become the it word for the time being. And gaslighting was definitely one of them where it was anything you said that was opposite of me, you're gaslighting me. Everyone used that. And I'm like, that is not even how gaslighting works. Exactly. Like you don't even understand where this term comes from. Yeah. And then on top of it too, you see this now, there is... a huge disagreement in online as we're recording this, which could be different now because this is September when we're recording this, but yeah there's like.
Speaker: huge discussion about this online as relates to trans women and women and everything and what makes a woman and feminism and everything and For a lot of people I've noticed because i've I've kind of been dropped off in that space where I'm...
Speaker: videos. where It's like if you don't agree 100 % with... the topic at hand or like with this specific argument then you must be transphobic or you must yeah it's Like, no, that doesn't necessarily mean that. And people need to understand that you don't have to agree 100 % on everything with someone. And if you don't, that doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. Not everything is. play
Speaker: white. Well, and humans, we're so individual. And I think it's important to remember that because Not everyone should be exactly the same. It's not like a cookie cutter world. We should be different and be able to have adult conversations. And you know if you disagree with some things, you share that you disagree. And at the end of the day, like that's what it is.
Speaker: You don't need to bring everybody to your side and your beliefs and your thoughts and the way you do something and and which we see that a lot in. Even just like witchcraft practices, if you go online, people will be like, you have to do it exactly this one way. This is the only way you can do it. And if you don't do it, it doesn't work. And it's like. No.
Speaker: Yep. No, now everybody's so different. Right. Obviously, this is just in general. Of course, there's left and rights. You know what I mean? Of course, like if you're doing something that is. harmful.
Speaker: To an entire group of people. That is one thing. And so, cause I can already see the emails coming in. Oh, I know. wow And it's like, no, calm down. room um yeah It'll be okay. Stop.
Speaker: But additionally, this is something that i I've seen a lot recently in conversations that I see parents having. And I've seen this this conversation happen on social media too. Feeling uncomfortable doesn't necessarily mean that you are being harmed. And anxiety doesn't automatically mean something is dangerous. and I think that...
Speaker: it's okay sometimes to feel discomfort because whenever you feel discomfort, that also is a sign that you're growing. Like for instance, when you're working out and you're putting your body under physical and mental strain, it is uncomfortable.
Speaker: it is going to hurt. You're going to be sore afterwards, especially if you've never worked out before. But guess what? like you are making yourself stronger. You're breaking your muscles down, your muscle fibers down to make yourself stronger in the long run.
Speaker: And people need to understand that just being in an uncomfortable situation doesn't necessarily mean that you're being harmed. Yeah. And going back to the anxiety, my body says the grocery store is is an anxious driver. Yeah. Picking out my vegetables is not dangerous, okay? Right. And it's one of those things where you can feel anxiety. And for some people, you may need to go on medication to deal with that anxiety. However...
Speaker: maybe reframe it into yes, I have anxiety about this. I'm still going to do this hard thing. My anxiety is coming with it. me. It is not going to control my life. I'm going to control it. And go talk to a therapist best if it's that bad. Jesus Christ.
Speaker: And then we also see on the TikTok therapist problem, the magical spiritual diagnosis. So you're either an empath or you're an energy vampire. Your ancestors are trying to tell you something. Have you ever seen those videos come up? Oh, yeah. And it's like, no, actually. if Especially if 120 ,000 people have liked and shared this. What are you talking about? Who's ancestors? which Which one of us 120 ,000?
Speaker: Yes. And then right after COVID, we would see this a lot where it was just like the witch talk community was just so, it just felt like people were. cosplaying as witches during that time. And like they were cosplaying as pagan. But the whole someone put a curse on you thing. oh It was like every everything was a curse too. It was like, oh, you woke up in a bad mood. You've been cursed. You got stuck at a stoplight. So -and -so cursed you. And it's like right we're sometimes these things just happen. This is actual very normal things. Yeah.
Speaker: Anything that like if you're having a bad day doesn't necessarily mean that somebody has cursed you. It doesn't mean it has anything to do with astrology. It just could mean. This is a human experience that we all experience. Well, and it was like at this time too, like everyone was doing egg cleanses on TikTok. Yes.
Speaker: I'm like I've never done an egg cleanse. Me neither. We'll never do an egg cleanse. I don't need to do an egg cleanse. I think it's also from like Hispanic witchcraft. yeah Like it's from that culture. So why would I be doing that? Right. That's not part of my culture. No. Not everybody needs to do it. Yeah. No. Yeah. No. And then the whole like your third eye is opening. And I saw this guy recently on.
Speaker: ah the interwebs talking about how pervasive this thought which for some people if you need to think about Okay, in order for me to connect with
Speaker: higher consciousness or with my spirit guides i need to visually see like a third eye opening that doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to work for everybody yeah it doesn't necessarily like just because you are visualizing it yeah it doesn't mean that it's happening yeah because you're like literally creating that visualization it's not like magically happening on its own Exactly. and Yeah. if you are not a visual person, that doesn't mean that you'll never be able to connect with spirit guides because you can't visualize a third eye opening. Yep. And you can experience things without like a lot of...
Speaker: times whenever I'm experiencing something paranormal. I have not sat there and meditated to open my third eye to experience it. So. um if it works for you it works for you but it's not necessarily this isn't like a cut and draw you have to do it step by step by step by step to get to this point. But yeah. and then
Speaker: The whole, you're experiencing a spiritual awakening, like as you're scrolling through TikTok. This person who is just trying to make money off of you. Yep. Doesn't know what they're talking about. No. just stop So stop it.
Speaker: but yeah so I also think it's important to talk about the importance of shadow work and how shadow work allows us to examine parts of ourselves we may avoid or suppress. And if you don't do the shadow work, not saying that you can't be powerful and you can't, you know
Speaker: manifest the things that you want. But if you don't sit with yourself and if you're not comfortable with yourself, then... how are you going to understand truly what you actually even want? And yeah and so with...
Speaker: Examining parts of ourselves that we may suppress or we may avoid, this can include feelings of jealousy, anger, insecurity, resentment, shame, fear, and it can also include
Speaker: control and unhealthy relationship patterns, childhood experiences, trauma, and our own harmful behaviors. And it isn't about self -punishment. It's not about sitting with yourself and being unhappy because you hate yourself so much. That's not what it's about. It's about what is this feeling trying to tell me and what part of myself am I avoiding? And I would recommend, and especially as somebody who has a background in mental health and or in behavioral health. and and being a social worker is if you have experienced very unhealthy relationship patterns, childhood trauma, or just trauma in general, it might be so uncomfortable for you to sit through shadow work without having a therapist involved in some aspect as well, because a lot of what we do in therapy can tie back into shadow work. But sometimes you may need a guide to help you navigate through this process, and there is nothing wrong with seeking a therapist.
Speaker: No. And with that too, if you say you schedule an appointment with a therapist and you go in and you're not vibing with that therapist, you can find a different one. You don't have to stick with the first one you get put with. Find the one that works for you. And I'm not saying find the one that lets you get away with things, but find the one that's going to.
Speaker: work with you if you're doing shadow work bring that up say I'm doing shadow work this is you know my goal for that. And then see how they take it versus, well, I don't really like this person, but it's who I ended up with. And so I'm just going to stick it out. Or like, and I'm glad you mentioned this too, or having a therapist that's, oh, you're such a victim. You've done no right. Everybody has harmed you. And it's like, no, you need a therapist who is actually going to challenge you as well. yeah
Speaker: maybe bring up some things that are uncomfortable, but how are you going to work through it if you... don't experience some of those things and sit there. Yep. You also don't have to open every door.
Speaker: So there's a lot of pressure in magical communities to explore trauma, communicate with ancestors, practice divination, do spirit work, explore past lives, work with deities, etc. Or even to define like what type of practice you want to do or what type of witch, you know, you're going to be like a hedge witch, a green witch, a kitchen witch, candle magic, plant and magic, chaos magic, etc. Like these lists can go on and on and the pressures to learn everything about them is very overwhelming, especially when you're new. You don't have... to do every kind of magic because someone else is doing it. And we all fall into this at the beginning because you feel like you have to learn everything, which is 100 % not the case. So try what you are interested in and see if that feels right. If it doesn't, That's okay. Try something else. Don't force what's not working for you and don't get down on yourself because it wasn't right either. Yes. clap through the screen. little
Speaker: And I think it's... Little baby snaps. Little baby snaps. And whenever you have like, you know, because obviously in in. magical spaces, manifestation is such a huge, huge topic of contention. There is so much personal responsibility.
Speaker: That comes with manifestation that we are not talking about. because magic doesn't remove your agency here. If you're wanting to manifest love, there are questions that you need to ask yourself.
Speaker: what kind of relationship am I actually looking for? Do I want one or do I just like the idea of one? Am I just lonely? Am I trying to escape something? What do I need to change about my own relationship patterns? All of these things. And this isn't an exhaustive list of questions that you should ask before doing some sort of manifestation to bring love into your life. But these are just a few. And then you still need to actually do the work of putting yourself out there and meeting people. You can't sit here and do a manifestation working for love and then continue on the same. path and patterns that you were doing without actually putting yourself out there. If that is downloading a dating app, I don't know any of the dating apps, Tinder.
Speaker: one
Speaker: We've been out of that game for a while. For a long time. Yeah. Or even just like going um and going to meet people, going to speed dating event, whatever it is, you can't just do the working and then not actually put any work into it. The magic is not going to do it for you. You actually have to have some agency here. The same goes for manifesting money. The spell doesn't do the work for you. You are still going to need to apply for jobs, negotiate that salary you want. Learn a skill, make a budget and stick to it and pursue opportunities. The universe cannot submit your application for you.
Speaker: You're going to have to do it. Come on, universe. Sorry, guys. Not going to happen. ah
Speaker: And then I've seen this a lot and um I have, I know people who have. specifically done this and i just think it's so infuriating whenever you see this but divination and the one more card problem is literally, all it is is reassurance seeking. And what this tells me, if you are the type of person who is constantly trying to Use divination.
Speaker: and not be satisfied with what you're getting so you're gonna do one more card or you're gonna have something else to okay well this is what i gathered from it what do you get then you don't know yourself first of all like yeah like you literally don't know yourself but this isn't about whether your preferred method of divination is real like i'm not saying that at all divination and tarot shouldn't be relied on because you can't tolerate uncertainty yeah
Speaker: pulling cards over and over and sending the cards to your friends for their interpretation, because you're hoping for reassurance or another answer, or even posting the spread on Reddit to get strangers to weigh in. You need to take a step away and do some reflection as to why you can't tolerate uncertainty and you don't like the answer you've received. And also get to know yourself because at the end of the day, divination is all about your. perspective and your intuition. And if You're pulling these cards and you can't trust your own intuition. That says more about you than it does about whatever answer you received.
Speaker: I actually saw a meme. The other day that just made me laugh and it was like. Tarot, you are the problem. Me, reshuffles deck. I was like, oh my gosh. It made me laugh. And it's like, can I take a screenshot of this and send this to one specific person?
Speaker: Please. Yeah. but Next we want to talk about when spirituality becomes anxiety. um
Speaker: So is my practice helping me to feel grounded and safe or is it making me anxious? So this can manifest in situations where someone is becoming hyper -focused on signs, omens, angel numbers, tarot pulls, synchronicities, messages, whether they've offended a deity, whether a spell worked, whether they're cursed or something is a spiritual warning. We are absolutely not saying that watching for signs is bad or that it will cause you anxiety. But what we want to bring to light here is that if this practice starts to consume you to a point that it is affecting your mental health. that you should probably take a step back and reset yourself because your magical practice should never be harmful to you as a person. And it should never cause your mental state to be anything other than calm, collected, and healthy. Yes, because at the...
Speaker: At the end of the day, when we're looking at magic and we're looking at witchcraft as a whole, it is a belief system and it is tied back heavily to some sort of spiritual belief. Whether you believe in deity magic or just manifestation or whatever the case may be, it's believing in something greater than yourself. And if this is causing you that much anxiety, you have to take a step back. Yeah. Must take a step back. and Please do take a step back. too yeah and so When you should take... as
Speaker: take a break and step away from your magic. Obviously, if you're becoming increasingly frightened over whether or not you're cursed, as Tiffany just mentioned, you're losing sleep because of magical or spiritual concerns. You're constantly checking divination for reassurance because you can't trust yourself. You're spending money you can't afford on magical or astrological services or products. And I've known somebody who's done this, who putting themselves into a hole because they can't trust themselves. They don't.
Speaker: Any magical workings, they don't end up trusting because they don't trust themselves. And so because they're constantly looking for reassurance, they are paying for things that they cannot afford because they're hoping that somebody will give them the magic answer. And that is no magic can't end up there. No. Astrology can't do that for you. Just like the universe can't submit your applications. Right. Sometimes you just have to do the fucking work yourself. And trust your intuition. like We all have intuition for a reason. And then.
Speaker: And on the same token too, like if you are isolating yourself, whether that's because you believe others are spiritually dangerous or you're so caught up with the reassurance seeking that you don't want to hear your friends or loved ones perspectives, that's a fucking problem. Also, if you're neglecting your responsibilities, if you are Not going to work because...
Speaker: You are. so caught up in whatever it is you're trying to manifest or you feel like you're being cursed. And so you, you don't trust yourself to drive to work or take public transport or whatever the case may be. That's a fucking problem. You need to. somebody.
Speaker: And then lastly, if you're using magic to avoid addressing the actual problem. If you're hoping for this magical answer that's going to come down and save you from everything without you actually doing the hard work. I'm telling you. That's not going to happen. This is not a fictional world, unfortunately.
Speaker: It is not. And you know sometimes you do have to grow up, go get some mental health, like an expert to help you with this. so Go get some mental health expert help.
Speaker: And maybe even apologize. to yourself, to you know the person you've harmed or sit with these feelings, sit with. the things that you're going through. or just apply to the job.
Speaker: Go on a date. Go. Put yourself out there. you It's okay. it's So as we mentioned, it's okay to feel the anxiety. It's okay to feel. fear it's okay to feel these discomfort like that's what makes you human is feeling discomfort so You've got to put yourself out there and you've got to actually do the work.
Speaker: That's a wrap on this episode of Get In Loser We're Doing Witchcraft. We hope you had as much fun as we did. If you loved this episode, we'd be eternally grateful if you left us a five -star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It helps more witches, seekers, and magical misfits find our show.
Speaker: Want even more get and loser content? Join our Patreon or Supercast Coven. As a member, you'll get early access to episodes, exclusive printable shadow work and grimoire pages, access to our witchy book club, promo codes for merch, and so much more.
Speaker: Just check the show notes for the link or search Get In Loser, We're Doing Witchcraft on Supercast and Patreon. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Get In Witches or email us at we'redoingwitchcraft at gmail .com.
Speaker: Join us next week for part two of our Symbols in Witchcraft series. Until then, stay magical, stay curious, and as always, Blessed be witches.
