Transcript
UKRunChat: Well, welcome both to Danny and Isabel. It's so nice to have you here just a week on from the race. and Thank you so much. how How are you both recovering? It's only been a week, so how are the legs feeling?
Isobel: Done it, you go first.
Danny: Yeah, good. Thanks. Thanks a lot for having us, Michelle. um Yeah, recovery is getting there. um Picked up a little bit of a knee injury the last couple of days, which is still... still still bugging but probably probably a good thing to keep me from going out running too too early but yeah and takes a little bit of time but definitely still also kind of on quite a high from the race i don't know if you're the same isabel
Isobel: Yeah, again, thanks Michelle for having us. um My, yeah, I'm. I struggled a lot the first week. after I actually started a new job which was quite stupid so and I moved house so I had a week of...
Isobel: madness so I don't really feel like I've necessarily properly rested up yet and my body is um, letting me know. that so still resting um definitely not been out for any runs yet just trying to Kind of.
Isobel: let my body tell me when it's ready and then probably add a bit of time to that
UKRunChat: Yeah, so so how how do you know kind of when it's what when you're fully recovered? Because we were just saying, Danny, before we started recording, weren't we, that... It can be tricky to know. when that you feel okay but but you're not so like How how do you both judge that, really?
Danny: Yeah, I think Isabel's just right. Like you you have to... I'm... Listen to your body and then give it more time and than you than you think as well.
Danny: Obviously, yeah. like there's any sort of injuries or specific things that that you've picked up. um And then certainly for me, there's been like. I've been eating triple i've been like catching up feeling really hungry for sleep And then I think there's also like the.
Danny: Almost like. not the psychological, but um yeah, there is definitely a mental side to the recovery as well, sort of coming down off the massive adrenaline. high of the week and um yeah and try and like reflecting on it processing and then going back to in my case like a bit of normal real life or in in isabel's case um yeah going straight into some some big changes
Isobel: Yeah. um I think. kind of echoing what Dani said. <unk>ve I've got a bit of inflammation still, so. that's a clear sign that my body's still like in recovery mode.
Isobel: Um... And... I think. that that's a clear sign for as long as that kind of hangs around that I'm definitely not ready to do anything. kind of running related or otherwise.
Isobel: But yeah, the mental side also massively. um I felt... it took me It took a few days for it to kind of sink in. like i was I kept waking up. I was kind of having nightmares. that I was like on a trail and I was never reaching the checkpoint.
Isobel: It's like this really bizarre. tricks that my mind was just playing on me. and so I found it ah um took a... some time for my sleep to settle down again That was probably the main thing.
Isobel: And now I'm getting ah back into a bit of a routine with that, which is great. um But yeah, it does all sorts of things to you that I could never have kind of. anticipated, I think.
UKRunChat: Yeah, you're nodding along there, Danny, as well. I guess sleep is kind of ah an indicator that you're... you're fully recovered once that goes back to normal, is it?
Danny: Yeah, I don't know. and I'm not one to like track or monitor my sleep with any. tech or anything. um ah Just, ah yeah, I didn't sleep the night before the race.
Danny: I was lucky, I think, to sleep like relatively okay um during the race. But then, yeah, indeed, like it's been kind of... Yeah. It's been... like quite intense sleep almost since the since the race and i think yeah there's It's the the kind of fight or flight. um Uh, yeah mode isn't it i think that like is also... like impacted by. the intensity of that, of of six days of of what we did.
Isobel: Mm hmm.
Danny: and And I guess that that's kind of one of the things that's still trying to settle down your sleep, still trying to to work out. but
Isobel: Yeah.
Danny: But I'm i'm hopeful or it will get better and and settle down.
UKRunChat: Yeah, well, congratulations to you both. like It's an epic achievement to to even be on the start line of Dragons Back. Like what? But to win it is just, it's it's incredible. how How are you both feeling about? being the kind of the first man and first woman home
Isobel: um Yeah, I don't know really. i't I think I'm primarily just really. really happy to have completed it and Obviously the circumstance in which I came to...
Isobel: Be first, women. um was slightly different I guess because Bethann was leading by quite a significant amount until towards the end of day five.
Isobel: And then unfortunately she dropped out. um which just, like, I can't really... Considering my... primary kind of goal was to finish. I think just... Coming so close to the end of such a massive challenge, you're still going to experience basically everything in terms of kind of.
Isobel: the pains your body's going through the mental so everything that we've just talking about but without kind of finishing it off so i really really felt for her um I mean, obviously, it did mean that I moved up into first, which was an added bonus. but Um.
Isobel: Really, I'm just, yeah, I'm so. I never. I've never done anything quite like that before so I'm just so happy to have finished.
UKRunChat: Yeah, I mean it's... it's where you kind of Because I watched all the videos it's really exciting because we could see that Bethann was like the first lady back until was it day was it day five that she
Isobel: Day five. Yeah, it's right towards the end of day five.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
UKRunChat: yeah so where were you kind of in the course before before then were you were you always second or were you kind of gradually moving up the fields.
Isobel: Yeah, so I was second from day one. um and kind of increased. the gap between between second and third. um Until. maybe day three or day four and then just kind of maintained because my body was quite broken by that point.
Isobel: um so yeah I know I so I think i'd I'd got quite happy with the thought wow I'm gonna come second that's definitely not something I ever expected and then so I think my brain hasn't really um kind of registered actually I did come first in the end.
UKRunChat: Yeah, no, it's amazing because I was just hearing from Sam that...
Isobel: Yes.
UKRunChat: Not a lot of people even finish on the first attempt. so So to to finish and and win is is quite amazing. Yeah, you should be really proud of yourself.
Isobel: Yeah. Yeah. That's great.
UKRunChat: Yeah. but Did you go in to win it, Danny? Because you you've you've previous form with the Kate Rath. Ultra. um were Were you expecting a win or is is it not the kind of race you go in expecting anything from?
Danny: No, i'm absolutely not. And again, to I think echo some of Isabel's sentiments about like. the feeling of Yeah, it feels amazing and it's... And it's wonderful to... to win but um and also been discussing a bit with you know some of the friends that you make along the way and people i ran with and you know people i was He was in the in the top. top five with and for sure there's an element of competition but actually the strongest feeling
Danny: coming out of this race is is more is more the togetherness and the camaraderie that you have with the with the people that you're you're... both like sharing a lot of.
Danny: the trail with and even those that you're you're you're running past day by day or the people supporting in the camp and and everything so um no i i i didn't i honestly didn't believe i could i could win um i i I had a look at the start list and. um and and ah Matt and Alistair and others who came second and third are amazing.
Danny: um you know amazing runners with with incredible pedigree. um But yeah, and it was it was, yeah, obviously a great. a great um a great feeling to win but yeah strongest feeling coming out was like just sense of sense of togetherness with the other people that you that that you run with and experience um such a yeah such an incredible kind of six days with together
UKRunChat: yeah you do Do you make friends for life on that kind of event? I can imagine you're quite close in in camp as well, eating and and sleeping.
Danny: Yeah, I mean, it's... um Yeah, you you have to be careful not to sort of... um over like overdo the hyperbole of it but
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Danny: Like truly, truly you you do. And as you say, I ran the Cape Wrath Ultra a couple of years ago, which is my first. it was my first ultra it was my first experience of of this and i i did and make.
Danny: friends who I've kept in touch with um all the way through, a number of who were volunteering and and a couple who were running. um in in dragon's back as well and yeah the intensity of the the the experience um Yeah.
Danny: It does really like. really make amazing bonds I've been in touch with. with, you know, a lot of the people i who are who I shared. um shared time with during the week and you really feel like you've yeah you've gone through something together you've built amazing amazing trust and uh and And yeah, so um it's it's pretty special like that.
Isobel: Yeah, definitely. um I. feel the exact same I think it's kind of You really felt it in the evenings, like when you went into... that tend to... E.
Isobel: you kind of sit down and feel quite sore and you know that everyone else feels exactly the same you don't really need to kind of discuss it you there's just that kind of mutual feeling of we both know what we've been or we all know what we've been through today it's really really hard um But we're all in it and we're all in it together.
Isobel: Um... And it's just like. you can and i've also along the trails when you kind of say words of encouragement to each other. It's just... it's always well received and you know that more than likely you saying it's someone else is going to mean a lot to them as well because you know how much you're all struggling And. obviously having fun at the same time.
Isobel: um That, yeah, it's just. A really unique kind of bond that's made incredibly quickly. I mean, because the race itself is only six days long. um Yeah. It was just.
Isobel: really special i couldn't Yeah, yeah, it's really great. Hmm.
UKRunChat: Yes, so so i mean I'm interested in what it takes to kind of... to even stand on that start line. so what What attracts you to race like Dragons Back? I mean, Danny, you said that you've... you kind of only did your first ultra. a couple of years ago.
UKRunChat: Bye. what What attracts you to to these multi -stage races and how how do you know you're ready?
Danny: Yeah. um No, it's a good question. And it's one you have a lot of time to... to think about um whilst you're like deep into the the sixth seventh eighth hour of of the day um in the in the rain traipsing through yeah traipsing through the world of mountains um I think ah for me, it's a couple of things. um the first is like is is curiosity it's about um
Danny: It's about trying to find out Um, Find your your your limits and explore. new places. um Explore, yeah, explore how you... Yeah. how how you how you feel how you react in different in difference you know, amazing situations. and um And in a way, it's like the... The process in itself of trying to.
Danny: Work out. why you do it. is um is kind of an attraction in in itself. you You toy with that question, like, why am I putting myself through this? um sometimes kind of deep into it into a race um I do as well for the I mean,
Danny: the the setting we were in the being out in in in nature and uh um yeah and in this case incredible whales in cape wrath a couple of years ago and in the beautiful northwest of of scotland um is a massive privilege to be out and um and and i'm running and feeling you know feeling feeling free and um in in these beautiful areas, landscapes. You can see a lot of that from and the videos and the photos. of
Danny: of Dragon's Back, which only does it justice to to an extent. um but i think yeah for me the main the main reason then why i reflected why i i do it is is really like to is the people and So both. Bye.
Danny: Yeah, sharing. as we've just talked about, sharing the miles, sharing the experiences. making friends, having ah having a um there's obviously the people that you do it for the or i certainly feel i do it for the people who support me and your family, your friends, and the people who who send you these dragon mail messages during during the week and
Danny: it's a selfish sport sometimes um ultra running and the time it takes to prepare You're putting yourself through pain. um and uh yeah and to be able to like make the people who support you proud is is um is a pretty is a pretty big part of it.
Danny: um So, yeah, that's. That's my reflections on why I do it.
Isobel: Mhm. Yeah, I definitely. agree with the kind of curiosity part of things like trying to find my limits I think. I'm quiet.
Isobel: attracted to those kinds of activities um and I definitely knew signing up to this that I Habnaba. done anything like it and probably never will to the same degree I think. um So that was it. That was a big. factor I'm kind of, yeah, drawn to.
Isobel: Big. um big challenges which I know are going to Take a lot. Out of me. Um... I think yeah, obviously. the people that you meet and the The scenery is a big thing. i i I mean, I now live in London, so. don't have many mountains around here.
Isobel: um So these races. I... taking me to wonderful places and I particularly love going around the UK because I just think that there is so much variation I mean in one single country going through Wales it was just amazing. day one to day two.
Isobel: the change between. kind of Crib Gawk, Triffin. to then the rhino because it's just It was just amazing. and you do have to kind of maintain that perspective when you're really Parting.
Isobel: just to look around you and think like. I'm in the middle of... Bye. beauty right here I need to just kind of take that in as well as being so absorbed in.
Isobel: whatever my mind is telling me right now. um So yeah, those are kind of the main things.
UKRunChat: Yeah, I mean, it it the videos of... of the race just that It just looks beautiful. does it I mean, it must be kind of amazing to actually be there. And.
UKRunChat: and just be traversing the whole of wales it's just yeah
Isobel: um
UKRunChat: It looks really beautiful.
Isobel: I think. Yeah, I think the drone The drone footage particularly, I think there's some really cool shots of you, Danny, actually crossing Kripkok.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Isobel: And that, I think. Or be like... looking at that footage. of us like scaling this crazy ridge. just really puts it into perspective and makes you.
Isobel: kind of reflect further on how it felt to be doing it. kind of a week and a half ago. And. When I was I don't know if it was the same as you Danny because you were there a bit earlier than me But when I was there it was quite windy um and you could kind of feel the weather closing in a bit it was very atmospheric but also I'm petrified of heights so I was so scared at the same time um But yeah, I think that's that's probably for me is like the the most epic.
Isobel: Paw of the Week. is Yeah.
Danny: Yeah.
Isobel: criticalb
Danny: No, definitely definitely agree. It was... I was... I was so like hyped up on adrenaline that day, that first day, no sleep. Um,
Danny: and um I mean yeah. uh The... Thanks for the call out of the video, Isabel. I also look a bit of a mess because I've got like my jacket.
Danny: i sort of tucked into my... um into my into my race vest which is like flapping around in the in the wind behind me i definitely don't um don't don't look like um I'm going to particularly say for should be doing this um and of my polls. like hanging around out of the back of the back of the pack as well. So I'm sure there's people who have looked much, and much slicker coming over Kribkoch over there.
Danny: over the years. um and I mean, it is, and obviously it's, yeah. the The videos do like... It's great. to you know. reflect and and look back. I have to admit. um one thing, which is.
Danny: at the end of the race um i I did. think did i actually look up during this race did i actually Did I actually? taken the surroundings that that i was i was in i'd like to think i did but um but See ya.
Danny: uh when you're yeah when you're so sometimes when you're so focused on on you know just the next checkpoint or or just trying to like execute your race if you if you want to put it in in that way and I... I need to go back to Wales basically to appreciate, I think, some of the landscapes that we ran through because I'm not sure I actually looked up quite enough.
UKRunChat: but either of you like wrecked the course before or any parts of it or did you you just kind of go in and and see what it brings.
Isobel: um I'd recce day one and day two.
UKRunChat: and
Isobel: I intended to do more but I got injured in June which kind of... um ah yeah affected my recce process.
Danny: Yeah, I hadn't. um and I live in Norway, so it wouldn't wasn't so easy for me to to get over. and Obviously, there was ah or there was a change in in the way the race was organized this year, which was um pre in previous years, maybe Sam talked about it.
Danny: um it was ah a point to point and you were able to an extent to choose your choose your own lines and whereas this year we were we we had to follow um a specific gpx um ah much more closely, which I think probably benefited people like me who hadn't been able to recce the course to an extent. and And I was also very lucky, particularly on...
Danny: the the third and fourth days which go through some really quite remote terrain running with with matt hamilton who who came second is amazing um runner and he'd he he actually been able to rec a couple of couple of weeks before so i was hanging on to his his coattails for for a couple of those days. and as as well um but it is yeah it is possible to do um to do without without wrecking but maybe wrecking also helps you appreciate the
Danny: the the course, the landscapes a little bit a little bit more too.
UKRunChat: Yeah, so when you're out in front there, of course, you are relying on your own navigation. So you just are you following kind of the GPX on your watch at that point?
Danny: Yeah, exactly. exactly um ah Yeah, or trying trying your best to. I did turn the wrong way off the top of Snowdon on the first day, went about five minutes down the wrong the wrong track until my watch and peeped. But generally, you're you're trying to follow trying to follow as well as you as you can there. the watch but it is um yeah it is Not an easy route to follow in in a lot of in a lot of cases. um
Danny: you know there's there's a lot there's unmarked that's sort of unpathed And there's there's sudden turnings off. off roads into random fields. So you have to yeah you do have to keep your keep your wits about you.
Danny: um but that's a kind of yeah a fun part of the or i found a fun part of the challenge as well
UKRunChat: So what what was your favourite? day would you say Overall.
Isobel: I need to think about that.
Danny: Yeah, I think. um Easy answer is... the is what's One of the things that's amazing about the race is the combination. um of the the different days every day.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Danny: in and of itself is is is a really tough ultra. um and yeah and every day has its um yeah has its different has its different elements. um And so it's, yeah, it's the combination both on each day and then of the of the race progressing from generally the more technical, rocky. Snowdonor in the first couple of days through.
Danny: and so sort of some of the more remote terrain. and Day three, four, day five. is is the Brecon Beacons, um which is like the rollercoaster day.
Danny: um and then day six you know day six they they talk about day six being you know the the easy run in. It's a 60 -kilometer ultra with, yeah, with 1 ,500 meters of ascent on. a lot of rough ground as well.
Danny: um so
Isobel: Also a lot of tarmac, which by that point...
UKRunChat: oh
Isobel: is Brutal You kind of get through through the week and... it gets in places everyone kept saying like these bits are Um. this this day is a bit more runnable or... This section's a bit more runnable, but...
Isobel: i mean what is runnable when you've done like three days of consecutive ultra marathons i just um yeah things were not feeling runnable by day four or day five I can tell you
UKRunChat: i mean how How much do you actually run on? on the the whole room. anyway like it because it's it's a long way isn't it and as you say a lot of it's technical like How much are you actually running in reality?
Danny: You probably should have checked this before before you invited on us on to a ah run podcast, Michelle.
Isobel: All right.
Isobel: Yeah.
Danny: I'm... I mean, yeah, you you try and run the, or at least for me it was trying, you know, you try and run the flats. um the the downhills where you where you can and if possible the the gentle and the gentle up hills Um, and But then, yeah, there is so much elevation that. that you're inevitably walking and hiking and and yeah big part of the the the the training and being successful i think is being able to Yeah.
Danny: being able to hike uphill.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Danny: um efficiently as as well but it um I don't know. I think it it still classes as ah as a running race.
UKRunChat: Definitely. Yeah. What about you, Isabel? Did you find yourself kind of power hiking lots of it as well?
Isobel: Yeah. Um, I was a kind of aim for the same as what Dani was saying, so.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Isobel: um I think. the faster you can get your uphill hike. and try and maintain it consistently. The batter, I think that's... Probably one of the things that served me well was. even into kind of the latter stages of the race.
Isobel: I... i was at i'm still pretty strong going uphill and like fitness wise was feeling in control um So I was able to kind of make quite a lot of progress, I think, with the uphill. but um Yeah, i was I struggled on the downhill towards the end. my ankles were kind of feeling it and so it just became quite painful but In theory, yeah, run run the...
Isobel: Run the runnable downhill. Run the runnable uphill. and then run all the flat.
UKRunChat: And does that does that kind of strategy change as you go through the week as well, as you get more tired? or Like how does your body adapt?
Isobel: Uh. I think. Yeah, I mean. The... this sort of incline that becomes acceptable to walk gets flatter and flatter and flatter or it did in my case but I think.
Isobel: towards the, in the... kind of day five and day six particularly on the tarmac it was a case I kind of just had to make myself. Run, otherwise you I... you kind of get to a point of feeling so exhausted that your mind can tell you it's okay to walk wherever basically and you do need to get it done so Um,
Isobel: kind of had to set limits you know like I'll run until this point walk until this point um And then you kind of like stop. Just getting a bit carried away with the games. that You're playing with yourself and you get through it.
Danny: I guess it's a bit back to the question you asked about why you do it as well. and michelle and i guess like that the the
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Danny: the the training and preparation and sort of. trying to um work out how best to yeah both like train the different types of running and movement that you're going to need and also like train the train the endurance that and that you'll need to... um yeah hopefully try and resist injury and and resist fatigue over the over the course of week of the week That's kind of, I guess, one of the
Danny: yeah, the fun things to try and. to try and like work out during the during the training. to try and, yeah. minimize or yeah minimize fatigue over the week or be able to like practice.
Danny: Yeah. um your uphill hike or or yeah. somehow practice, you know, running your your your 10k on the road at the end and when you're when you're on tired legs
UKRunChat: So so i mean how do you train then? What what do you prioritise for training for a 380? kilometer. event like this i mean are you are you self -coached have you got coaches who are helping you.
Isobel: Done, eh? You guys.
Danny: Yeah, no, I don't have a i don't have a coach. um Yeah, I guess. um I guess I've kind of geeked out on this sport um a little bit, like more and more in the last in the last couple of years since Kate Rath.
Danny: to be honest. And yeah, and... and yeah again that curiosity point of like trying to learn and work out like how you do like what training machines. for something like this should should look like and it's so yeah it's so diverse so varied that that's kind of why yeah partly why why i like it and i mean yeah there's um the kind of but building blocks that that i used at least were trying to
Danny: just like maximize your your your time on feet and for for a start the just the sheer you know volume um often at low intensity and is obviously yeah is obviously a key a key building block building the the the sort of aerobic base.
Danny: and and then and trying to get as much specificity. as possible obviously particularly with um with elevation with with uphill practicing that uphill hiking practicing downhill the downhill running, practicing repeats of that to to do each of those when you're on.
Danny: when you're on tired legs. um trying to like build a little bit of you know um core stability and and and strength to be able to to resist as well. and So yeah, it's ah it's a combination um combination of things.
Danny: um at least that was that was how how i approached them i'm definitely not uh definitely very much an amateur still trying to work it. work it out but i think even some of the pros that you listen to and ah sort of in in this sport and you know experimentation and and curiosity and and trying different ways of training is.
Danny: for for such diverse, complex races. as is kind of um also i think in many cases what What? what makes them motivated as well i don't know how you did it in london isabel to be honest
Isobel: Yeah, it was it was quite challenging. um So I actually. I have a coach. ah My coach is actually Holly Whitton, who won the... women's race last year which That was kind of my intention going into this race. I hadn't had a coach before.
Isobel: the beginning of this year and then when I decided to do this challenge I thought well I actually would quite like a coach who's done this race before because it is so Unique. I'd like to know that my coach is kind of speaking from experience so Yeah, we started working together in January and it's been really...
Isobel: Really great. um because she's offered so much more than just like a training plan in terms of like the knowledge shared um tips whatever um But in terms of my actual training, it has been a challenge.
Isobel: I spent a lot of time in the Chilterns. but the max climb there is about 100 meters so um It's limited. Um, Lots of hill repeats. um And. I think yeah maybe reflecting on my own race had I been closer to um mountains rather than hills and are also mountains with the terrain.
Isobel: um They're kind of mapped directly onto the dragon's back. I think I probably... would have. um kind of conditioned my legs my muscles tendons everything to deal with the terrain a bit better.
Isobel: Um... But yeah, I think. it's you've like people People from the South need to... um that Yeah, I have to make it work because there's just there's not many mountains down here.
Isobel: um and also I did spend a bit like as I said I did the recces um And I also did a few practice races. um or not practice like races to kind of test out different things like nutrition also get more exposure to a racing environment um So. I did.
Isobel: a few back in kind of the earlier stages of this year which is definitely helpful. um Unfortunately, you can't plan a race. you know back -to -back days to mirror the dragon's back but it was still yeah still good good and very useful.
UKRunChat: yeah It sounds like you've both kind of... got the balance right though obviously and you know managed to be successful.
Isobel: Hmm.
UKRunChat: not only finishing, but winning. So yeah, good good job. Is there anything anything that either of you would would change if if you did it again about training, do you think?
Danny: or I don't know. um I think you could yeah You can probably never do um never do too much up and down. um for it So, yeah, probably would have. would have tried to have done.
Danny: um even yeah even more i I did yeah. My bad. my knee have ended up sort of giving away a little bit on on day five so I think even more like up and down and kind of Yeah. endurance would have um for this.
Danny: hopefully helped but you need i mean yeah i mean one thing um you need massive in this race is luck as well um is is luck to to to avoid yeah to avoid injury. um to yeah to not to not miss a Miss a checkpoint, miss a turning.
Danny: And there's so many things that have to go. that have to go right and what you see as well in in um some of the... in in so many like of the great runners who don't who don't manage to...
Danny: And to finish it is if if one thing sort of. it comes out of kilter if you're if you're food if you for some reason Calm. taking taking what you need to to eat and drink either in camp or during the race then it's so difficult to like to to kind of come back from that or um rebalance it so um So yeah, you definitely need a a dose of a dose of luck. There's only so much.
Danny: so much. training i guess that you can you can you can do
Isobel: Yeah. Definitely agree with Danny there, I think. one kind of um Kind of simple answer would be more strength training. because then I wouldn't have got injured, probably.
Isobel: back in June which wouldn't have. Meant that I spent the months leading up to Dragon's Back on a bike rather than in trainers. um But then. Also, yeah, I completely agree with the...
Isobel: the luck thing, I think. It's... so easy to think that it's just about running. that this race, but there were so many other things going on. you' you get back to camp and it's not like you just collapse and you can just rest until the next day. there's So much admin. Got to immediately like...
Isobel: pump up your thermo as roll out your Um, Sleeping bag. get food in ASAP. and towards the end of the week i don't know about you danny but i was not really feeling like eating as much but you know that if there's if you want to get to the finish line you're just going to have to force it down you because again as danny was saying one thing comes out of kilter and And maybe you'll be able to sustain it for a day, but this is not like a...
Isobel: one or two day race this is six days and you've got to be able to kind of manage all those different variables um at the same time, which in itself is quite tiring really, I think.
Isobel: um That's one thing I probably... would be to my strength you know went back and did it. another time not saying I'm going to. at least anytime soon, um is just...
Isobel: you kind of just have a better idea of the general kind of flow of the day and your kind of routines and habits you want to be in when you get into camp because I've never done anything. like that before and um it's not to be kind of underestimated.
UKRunChat: Yeah. So, I mean, practically, what does a day look like then? Not the first day when you're kind of setting in off, but having woke up. in the morning having been at a camp.
Isobel: Hmm.
UKRunChat: what does a day look like then for you kind of what are you what time you're setting off do you decide that yourself and then what are you eating and drinking on on route. How does that work?
Isobel: Yeah, so there's kind of a window. um You can start between six and eight. So obviously. depending on how long you think the day is gonna. kind of take you. would determine when you would set off so you see um kind of people more towards the back of the pack starting at 6am on the dot and then um I think, the at least for the men, they're much faster. guys Danny, we're sort of given a time.
Isobel: um that they had to kind of they couldn't start before that time basically um So, yeah, it's kind of. Wake up. have breakfast, sort out your camping stuff and then...
Isobel: set off and then um Yeah. obviously Yeah. you eat before you start and then um for me I was kind of aiming to get yeah it's about 60 grams of carbs an hour for me but it was topped up by an energy drink so We'll have been over that. But I...
Isobel: I made a bizarre decision of... uh doing the race with a lot of nutrition I never tried before. It all worked. Miraculously.
UKRunChat: There's that look we were talking about.
Isobel: but I was just really disorganised.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Isobel: And I knew some things in the past hadn't worked for me. Um... So I was like, I need to make some changes if this is going to work for me in the race. So then just. It got closer and closer to the race, by which point I was... two weeks out.
Isobel: ordering. completely new fuel that I'd never tried before but and anyway yeah it worked and then you get back in um to camp at whatever time. and kind of set up everything that you put away in the morning.
Isobel: But you had quite a lot more time than me in camp. Danny, because you got back in much earlier. one One day we came in and it was... I think it was like day three or day four. and um though The sun was out and all the...
Isobel: men and finish really early we just sat on like sun now and just just enjoying the sun
Danny: Yeah. um Yeah. whether whether Yeah. I don't necessarily, that's not necessarily the... the full picture it definitely doesn't feel like you've got ah low loads of uh
Isobel: No. yeah
Danny: loads of time. and And no, as you say. as well like that i think the biggest respect amongst the runners. um that that I came away with ah for those. um If it does... towards the back of the...
Danny: the pack who are who are up at... up at four. um Like. breakfast, getting getting ready, getting sorted. um and out at six on the dot.
Danny: and then you know some out till um to to cut off. You know, each evening in the last... sort of Um, if you're in bed by sort of lucky enough to be in bed by then in sort of the last 10 minutes of between 10 to 10 and 10 pm you hear a number of like a number of cheers of people coming in who have just beaten the cutoff But those people then. are are coming in often dripping wet.
Danny: after a huge long day out on the hill and then they have to then go and um get their tent set up. um sort out any injuries. and get clean, get their food in.
Isobel: yeah
Danny: and then try and sleep and then up at four again and so like the biggest respect to to to those and in fact the biggest trophy goes to the person who
Isobel: Yeah.
Danny: who is out for the the longest um in in in the day. but I don't want to paint also too like negative a ah picture of it. It is... Yeah. back to the camaraderie point and as well mentioned like sharing the yeah sharing dinner together with with with people um and uh yeah and and
Danny: yeah spending that time together chatting chatting through the through the day even if it isn't Bye. hours on end sitting on beanbags in the sun is still like it's still pretty pretty magic and amazing part of the the day along with of course like sharing the sharing the time on the on the trails with people
Isobel: Yeah.
UKRunChat: Yeah, that's lovely. So we've we've talked a little bit about the highs. There must have been low points as well. I know watching the Dragons Back videos, I know you certainly had.
UKRunChat: a couple of low points didn't you Isabel? And.
Isobel: related. i My day three and day four were my low points. um I just... Yeah, I I mean, I've kind of said it.
Isobel: before but um I think the day three was the kind of mental low point and maybe day four was the physical low point. Because day three, you're just...
Isobel: If still... so far off the end. You're already two ultras in and you've done a hell of a lot of elevation. And. It's just... And you're still kind of.
Isobel: In the... very much in the first half of um of the week. uh so i think mentally I did struggle with that a bit and Um...
Isobel: Yeah, I spent quite a lot of time on my own that day I think which does make it a lot harder as we've spoken about before. even just passing people gives you a boost and it gives others boost and it therefore gives you a boost because you know you've given. other people abused.
Isobel: um so therefore spending extended periods of time on your own it just It just gets a bit lonely, really.
UKRunChat: Yeah.
Isobel: um when you're so When you're kind of... Your energy stores are depleted. um you know you're physically tiring um your your body is kind of...
Isobel: telling you it's it's quite tired um and sore. It just is. it's just it just intensifies any emotion that you feel you feel it kind of times 10. um and that was kind of what my day three and day four were like but then kind of pull myself out of that ram with um Another. runners sarah uh on a lot on day five and a lot on day six and that massively massively helped. um yeah what about you Danny because I feel like whenever you passed me you seemed
Isobel: You were so good, really. kind of yeah I remember specifically every time you passed me. kind of said Keep going, Isabel. and you kind of addressed everyone by their names which I just think made such a difference I don't know why I didn't adopt that myself
Danny: No, um no, it's just such a nice. Yeah. i So with you is like. going past or or or being passed by or running with people.
Danny: is just such a ah massive boost um during during the race and so yeah to like be able to reciprocate and um on yeah on like sharing a sharing a boost and getting boosted by that is is is um is huge. And yeah, low low points. um For me...
Danny: probably like 3am. on Monday morning. and before the race started. ah not having slept. s slept at all.
Danny: thinking i've done all this training like my my family and friends have sacrificed all this. all this time for me and and i'm i'm going to be running trying to run this thing on on nicely what what am i doing um But I was so lucky that. this is i think as we step almost like as we stepped into the castle um it i sort of felt really i did feel really calm and
Danny: after that there's kind of nothing more you can do now and so you just you you crack on but yeah um sleepless the night before wasn't great i ran um Kate Rath and then ran the first half as well of this race with with my best friend and Adam and um yeah at low point unfortunately he had to drop out um part way part way through the race as well and yeah an example of
Danny: just like his he he got a stomach bug and and sort of was unable to take him more more food and yeah like Sharing sharing this this experience with him was like one of the one in the motivations and one of the things. so not having um not having Adam to share my temp with the last few days was a low. And then, of course, yeah, during the you know during the days physically.
Danny: mentally you try and you know you try and you try and lock in and break it down and down piece by piece but um Yeah, i my knees started to to give in the last couple of days. so um So that.
Danny: yeah that was that was painful um and then Just like... Although we've talked about you know the competition earlier. it being a little more camaraderie than than competition and the middle two days in particular i ran with i ran with matt who is incredible um incredible fast runner and yeah certainly there is like A feeling of, yeah, a feeling of.
Danny: of of of pressure to try and to trying. keep up with and keep up with him and and um Yeah, and and sort of a little bit the... the the stress of the...
Danny: the competition as as well but um But no, I guess. yeah again i was really lucky not to Get it. seriously injured not to and be able to like get all my food and food and drinking to sleep sleep during the during the week um Which, yeah.
Danny: are obviously some of the key blocks.
UKRunChat: So are you thinking about when when you've kind of physically exhausted, what are you saying to yourself? Are you thinking about the finish or are you just kind of in that moment and just trying to get to the next, I don't know, the next kind of landmark or?
Danny: Yeah, I don't know about you Isabel, but I, yeah. I definitely, not necessarily a kind of deliberate thing, but I am just sort of intuitively. feel like breaking it down um into chunks is... that is just felt like the way to to go about it so if you feel if you're feeling a low a physical or mental low it's um It's okay. like yeah getting to the next getting to the next checkpoint or
Danny: getting to even, you know, the next section, if you're feeling if you're hurting on a on on on the flats then okay there's a climb coming up where where yeah Yo.
Danny: be able to rest some parts of your body. and and so yeah breaking it down was definitely the way that um that that I... sort of intuitively tried to to overcome it.
Danny: um not thinking too much about like how many hundreds of kilometers or or or yeah or meters of uh or um or hours of bog we had to still traverse.
Isobel: Yeah. Completely agree. I mean, I think you're kind of letting yourself in for a week of hell if at the start line all you can think about is the finish line um you have to break it down like at the very least day by day but even then i think maybe in the first few days that feels like kind of a doable task but for me as we've discussed from day three onwards it was much more about breaking it down further my dad
Isobel: um was kind of supporting me the whole week so um Thinking about when I'd next be seeing him was massive. um And then... kind of alongside that the aid stations um the water points because the volunteers at those um
Danny: Hmm.
Isobel: The agitation and the water point were just phenomenal.
Danny: Hmm.
Isobel: and I feel like. Yeah, they saw me at such high points and such low points and just. just like the words of encouragement. hugs at times, just everything.
Isobel: everything in between, like, it was just amazing. and um that could that I really kind of. Is it? My body go. progressively more tired and my mind as well that that was a key thing for me to kind of get to those points each day and it really helps the the miles kind of tick over.
UKRunChat: Yeah. Oh, lovely. so Congratulations again. on on winning such an iconic legendary race it's incredible um just to finish have you got any words of wisdom or any tips for somebody who's thinking of taking on The dragon's back.
Isobel: I think if you're thinking about it, do it definitely. Um... That's kind of... I think if if you're the kind of person where it's even... kind of crossed your mind or it's like come up on your Instagram algorithm or you knew about it already and you're feeling Slightly inclined.
Isobel: I mean, maybe Maybe. maybe Maybe I'm mad to say do the whole thing, but... I probably would as I did. But. I think... You're only going to know. It's all about that curiosity thing that Danny was talking about. like You're only going to know if you can do it by doing it ultimately, or the training can only get you so far.
Isobel: And if you're... If you're intrigued, then I would say try it.
Danny: Yeah, i i couldn't I couldn't agree more. and It's obviously a massive privilege to be able to, yeah. to even to be able to, you know. think about um think about doing doing this race and and then to... um to run it and and yeah. um that definitely definitely do it it's um it's it's an amazing an amazing experience um and yeah um you you you won't regret it and you'll...
Danny: I doubt you're here. um anyone in the in the field really saying that. that that they... that that they regret trying, it's... um it's It's pretty um pretty amazing. um And yeah, i just I'd just like to share two two more and quick things as well. and kind of yeah. Also, you know
Danny: ah reasons to reasons to do it and and reasons to be to be grateful basically um the first is is just um echoing what isabel said about how amazing, the volunteers and um and the staff. and the organization of the of the races.
Danny: um it Yeah. it truly It truly is an incredible feat to to put it on. um and yeah the number of people who turn out. for you to to support, and you know.
Danny: people to to live this. this weird dream um is is amazing so like um yeah so for any of the volunteers and staff um yeah listening to to this just like a massive thanks to to all of you.
Isobel: Yeah.
Danny: Again, it's is it's pretty amazing. um And then, yeah, just... um also just like to to remember as well and the the winner of the race from from last year and david parish who um yeah who sadly sadly passed away and during the during the year and raising money for mountain rescue on the on the cape wrath at trial.
Danny: And yeah. He was... um kind of embodiment of of what what's great about this this race and this community always smiling and always always smiling the photos you see always always positive and a really and a good friend of of a lot of the the volunteers and and um and the race and the and the people who who organized it and i think yeah um
Danny: i I was lucky enough to meet him when I ran Cape Wrath and was certainly inspired. um by him and uh yeah Bye. And just to all his all his friends and family, he was he was he was well remembered during the during the race.
Danny: so
Isobel: Yeah.
Danny: um So yeah, just like to. to to share that as well.
UKRunChat: Oh, yeah, beautiful words there, Danny. Thank you very much. Yeah, very sad circumstances losing losing David. so And I think those words are just... They just go to show what a community.
UKRunChat: the ultra running community is and you know. So, yeah, thank you very much both. It's been really lovely chatting to you both. and I wish you all the best with recovery.
UKRunChat: and with future running endeavors. and Where can people can people find you online to follow? your running adventures.
Isobel: um I'm quite an infrequent poster on Instagram. um To the point where I think. My Instagram handle is... Turner underscore trails.
Isobel: but Something along those lines.
Danny: I don't think I've ever been asked that question.
Isobel: yeah and you knew that it feels so natural.
Danny: i don't i don't have I don't have Instagram. um I think my Strava is ah is is public. um but um all right Yeah.
UKRunChat: Oh, fantastic. Well, we we will keep an eye on the ultra running community in general then and wish you all the very best. and in the future so thank you so much for joining us both Danny and Isabel it's been really great talking to you both
Isobel: Thank you.
Danny: Thanks for having us, Michelle.
Isobel: Thank you.
