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Ep 122: The Jack is Back! With Jack Guarnieri
54 Plays2 years ago
"Jersey" Jack joins us to talk about JJP's latest release, Elton John!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction: Episode 122 Highlights
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We're on episode 122.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain as always, Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, it is a wonderful day in pinball.
00:00:17
Speaker
There's been new games released.
00:00:19
Speaker
Things are looking epic as always.
00:00:22
Speaker
Elton John is wowing that topper.
00:00:24
Speaker
Flashing onto the ceiling is amazing.
00:00:27
Speaker
The gameplay is great.
00:00:28
Speaker
It's a richie.
00:00:29
Speaker
It's fast.
00:00:30
Speaker
It's flowy.
00:00:31
Speaker
Who are you going to buy it from if you
Pinball Needs: Christmas Deals Suggestion
00:00:33
Speaker
get one?
00:00:33
Speaker
Well, I would reach out to Zach and Nicole Minia, Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:37
Speaker
They have all sorts of your pinball needs, including some deals right now.
00:00:41
Speaker
So if you're looking to pick up something for Christmas, now's the time to reach out.
00:00:45
Speaker
Definitely.
00:00:46
Speaker
Scott, we got someone special with us today.
00:00:48
Speaker
We do.
00:00:49
Speaker
We actually have someone who's been in the pinball industry for a long time.
00:00:53
Speaker
And then he decided, you know what?
Guest Introduction: Jack Guarneri
00:00:57
Speaker
Pinball's easy, apparently.
00:00:58
Speaker
So I'm just going to build my own pinball company.
00:01:01
Speaker
So we have the guy who resurrected pinball from the doldrums of the two thousands.
00:01:07
Speaker
We have Jersey Jack pinball with us.
00:01:09
Speaker
Jack Guarneri.
00:01:10
Speaker
How are you doing, Jack?
00:01:11
Speaker
Hey guys.
00:01:12
Speaker
Good.
00:01:12
Speaker
Hey, Josh and Scott.
00:01:13
Speaker
Really good to be with you guys.
00:01:15
Speaker
Definitely.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's great to see again.
00:01:16
Speaker
It was different to see you now because you don't have your Elton John costume on from when you guys revealed the expo.
00:01:22
Speaker
It's in the closet in the other world.
00:01:23
Speaker
You know what?
00:01:24
Speaker
John's, uh, sorry.
00:01:26
Speaker
Josh's Elton John's costume is also in his closet for some reason.
00:01:31
Speaker
But it's not the Dodgers one.
00:01:32
Speaker
It's more the flamboyant with the peacock.
00:01:35
Speaker
With the feathers, yeah.
00:01:36
Speaker
Feathers, yeah.
00:01:37
Speaker
That one's pretty cool too.
00:01:39
Speaker
I was actually going to buy a pair of those feathers and give them to Steve Ritchie to wear at Expo.
00:01:45
Speaker
I would have loved to see him do that.
00:01:47
Speaker
I don't know.
00:01:48
Speaker
I must have gotten distracted because I had it in my basket on Amazon and I never checked out.
00:01:53
Speaker
But –
00:01:55
Speaker
I think Steve would have put them on.
00:01:57
Speaker
You know, he's always wears black.
00:01:59
Speaker
Would have had these white feathers on.
00:02:01
Speaker
It would have been pretty cool.
00:02:02
Speaker
Maybe I'll do that to him at another show that we do together.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, you'll have to ask Steve about the time he came out to Rocky Mountain Pinball Show.
00:02:10
Speaker
And he forgot his deodorant.
00:02:15
Speaker
So we actually took him on a deodorant, Sharpie, and booze run.
00:02:22
Speaker
What, a bottle of rum, a bottle of deodorant?
00:02:26
Speaker
A stick of deodorant and then some Sharpies to sign things.
00:02:32
Speaker
Oh, that's funny.
00:02:33
Speaker
Something else.
00:02:35
Speaker
So, Jack, I got to know, where did Elton John come from?
Inspiration: Elton John Pinball Machine
00:02:38
Speaker
What made you guys decide at Jersey Jack Pinball to do Elton John?
00:02:42
Speaker
Well, we wanted to do another music game.
00:02:45
Speaker
And we didn't really have a lot of different things in mind.
00:02:50
Speaker
We bounced around a few different artists and I looked into music for different artists and cost of things.
00:02:57
Speaker
And I was at a concert, an Alan John concert with my wife in like January, February, 2019 before COVID.
00:03:10
Speaker
And listening to Elton John, you know, I've been to a bunch of his concerts, listening to him just brought me into the zone.
00:03:18
Speaker
And I saw on the screen, the video of him,
00:03:23
Speaker
and he had these glasses on, like he always has different glasses.
00:03:27
Speaker
And the reflection of the keyboard was in the glasses.
00:03:31
Speaker
And I took pictures of it and it was just such like, I just sat there and I said, you know, this could be a great pinball machine if it's done the right way.
00:03:39
Speaker
I'm a big fan of Captain Fantastic from 1976.
00:03:42
Speaker
I remember opening a box with a brand new one.
00:03:47
Speaker
I remember what that game did.
00:03:48
Speaker
And I said, you know, here's somebody that's had a career all these years.
00:03:53
Speaker
So many young people were in the audience.
00:03:56
Speaker
There was everybody in the audience, younger people, older people, people from all walks of life are Elton John fans.
00:04:04
Speaker
So I said, if I could get this license, I think we could make a great game.
00:04:08
Speaker
And I think we did.
00:04:10
Speaker
I really do.
00:04:10
Speaker
I think Steve and the team really nailed it.
00:04:14
Speaker
I think you did as well.
00:04:15
Speaker
It plays really well.
00:04:17
Speaker
And the game, I feel like, encapsulates Elton John.
00:04:21
Speaker
It shows off the side of him.
00:04:25
Speaker
Well, we got an email from David Furnish, his husband, when they finally saw, you know, the cut of the promo video.
00:04:34
Speaker
And he said, you guys really nailed it.
00:04:37
Speaker
You got Elton's DNA.
00:04:39
Speaker
You really know what you did.
00:04:40
Speaker
And we really appreciate what you did.
00:04:42
Speaker
And I can't wait till they get their games.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker
they're going to really go crazy because they were, they were part of it all along the way, all the approvals, advice on using different images, different pictures, different colors.
00:04:59
Speaker
Um, they were part of it and to have him do custom speech, um, for me to stand there next to the game, as long as I'm in the industry and have a game in my basement and, um, hear Elton John do speech calls and,
00:05:18
Speaker
on a game that says Jersey Jack, it was just surrealistic for me.
00:05:21
Speaker
It just blew me away while I was playing pinball wizard.
00:05:25
Speaker
At the same time, it was just... I could have never dreamed that.
00:05:31
Speaker
I could have never dreamed that.
Theme Risks: Elton John vs. Wizard of Oz
00:05:33
Speaker
Now, this is a philosophical change, I would say.
00:05:38
Speaker
Most of the time when you think of
00:05:41
Speaker
rock and pinball, you're usually thinking of the things that you see at like a stadium or like a, you know, a football game or something where it has lots of guitar, lots of loud, that type of stuff, which basically guns and roses, right?
00:05:57
Speaker
Right.
00:05:57
Speaker
So were you concerned at all that Elton John, he has an amazing catalog.
00:06:03
Speaker
However, at least half of his songs are ballads.
00:06:06
Speaker
And when I look at all the songs that you guys selected to put on,
00:06:09
Speaker
I would say half of them are high tempo and half of them are more of your typical ballads.
00:06:16
Speaker
Were you concerned that taking a risk on that?
00:06:20
Speaker
You know, getting up in the morning, getting out of bed is a risk.
00:06:23
Speaker
Certainly starting Jersey Jack pinball was a risk.
00:06:26
Speaker
So I think I'm at this point kind of risk averse.
00:06:30
Speaker
I don't really pay attention to a lot of the risks.
00:06:33
Speaker
When I licensed Wizard of Oz, everybody in the universe told me it was a terrible theme.
00:06:39
Speaker
I'd never sell any.
00:06:40
Speaker
Nobody would want to buy it.
00:06:42
Speaker
It's not going to make a good game.
00:06:44
Speaker
So, you know, I think the team of people that we have,
00:06:48
Speaker
they could take a white piece of paper and make a great game out of it.
00:06:52
Speaker
You know, we've all played really great games that have terrible themes and we've played really terrible games that have great themes.
00:07:02
Speaker
And it's hard to put both of them together, you know,
00:07:06
Speaker
I had people that on the rumor of Elton John, let's go back a couple of months ago, I've had people that were, you know, 20, 25 year customers of mine and friends of mine basically, excuse me, text me and say, you know, if it's Elton John, my money is safe.
00:07:24
Speaker
I don't have to buy the game.
00:07:25
Speaker
It's not a theme I want.
00:07:27
Speaker
I like Elton John, but I can't see it.
00:07:30
Speaker
Those people were at Expo.
00:07:32
Speaker
And I stood next to them and they bought the game and they said, you know what?
00:07:36
Speaker
If this game was my little pony, I would buy it.
00:07:38
Speaker
This is just an amazing game.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:41
Speaker
Just an amazing game.
00:07:42
Speaker
And it is, it blew everybody away.
00:07:44
Speaker
And when the games get out there in the next few weeks that we're building, um, it'll just, the momentum will keep going on this game.
00:07:51
Speaker
It's just beginning.
Game Editions: Platinum vs. Limited
00:07:54
Speaker
So one thing I'm looking at is you guys made a conscious decision to change the
00:07:59
Speaker
the base tier from the limited edition tool and call it the platinum edition.
00:08:04
Speaker
Right.
00:08:04
Speaker
And I don't really see much of like a number to it.
00:08:07
Speaker
Is that just a conscious decision going forward?
00:08:09
Speaker
Like what, what made you decide to go with platinum versus the Ellie name?
00:08:13
Speaker
And are these just kind of open-ended on the number?
00:08:16
Speaker
Well, you know, everything's limited, right?
00:08:19
Speaker
I used to say everything's limited except aggravation.
00:08:21
Speaker
So, uh, I think that's probably still true.
00:08:24
Speaker
Although we get very limited amount of aggravation, thankfully these days.
00:08:29
Speaker
Um,
00:08:30
Speaker
With the Platinum, you know, we put more into it.
00:08:34
Speaker
So I didn't feel that the limited LE moniker belonged on the game.
00:08:40
Speaker
Platinum is also related to music.
00:08:44
Speaker
When the colors we picked were a platinum type of color for the body armor, it made sense to call it a platinum edition, you know, because you have a topper, you have the radcals with the sparkle and some added extras in the game to sweeten it up a little bit.
00:09:02
Speaker
And the art package, you know, we had three artists do the two games.
00:09:08
Speaker
So Franchi did the P.E.
00:09:12
Speaker
And Yowse and JP did the CE.
00:09:16
Speaker
And I tell you, I still can't decide today which one I like better.
00:09:21
Speaker
I like both of them.
00:09:22
Speaker
It's a difficult choice which odd package I like better, which is a good problem to have.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely, I actually, I still have my Wizard of Oz 75, and I wish that I had the rad decals to put on them.
00:09:38
Speaker
because I love the look of the rad decals.
00:09:40
Speaker
And so I am, I'm jealous that the, the new ones come with those because it is visually very, they stand out.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:51
Speaker
I mean, it's stunning.
00:09:52
Speaker
I mean, when, when I did the direct print cabinets on the Emerald city, limited edition games,
00:09:57
Speaker
Um, they were great until you walked up to it and you leaned over into the game with like a belt buckle and you scratched up the game and you couldn't fix it at all.
00:10:06
Speaker
And I kind of decided that, you know, we'll make these rad cows, which would kind of mirror or emulate what we did on the direct print cabinets.
00:10:17
Speaker
They would be easy to replace if they got damaged and that kind of thing.
00:10:20
Speaker
They'd be easy to install.
00:10:22
Speaker
You could put them on right over regular decals and things like that.
00:10:26
Speaker
So it's really a great, it's really a great item.
00:10:29
Speaker
We love them.
00:10:31
Speaker
Well, let me know if you have a spare copy of Wizard of Oz 75 and I'll buy them from you.
00:10:36
Speaker
Okay, I'll look into that.
00:10:39
Speaker
I was going to say this artwork is amazing too.
00:10:41
Speaker
It very much encapsulates what Elton John is.
00:10:46
Speaker
What made you decide to go with three artists instead of just – because wasn't Franchi the only one on Godfather?
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, he was.
00:10:58
Speaker
I like to change things up and having more people involved.
00:11:03
Speaker
Some people would say it's more confusing, but I think it organizes people better.
00:11:09
Speaker
And when you have people competing against each other, whether it's subliminal or intentional, they work better.
00:11:17
Speaker
They put in a better product.
00:11:20
Speaker
I think John Yossi is just a consummate professional all the years, all the games and all the things that he's done.
00:11:28
Speaker
And Chris is just...
00:11:30
Speaker
Chris just eats things up.
00:11:32
Speaker
I mean, he just loves to work.
00:11:33
Speaker
He loves to create.
00:11:35
Speaker
He loves to, uh, have, uh, he has a certain flair, a different style and John and JP.
00:11:41
Speaker
And that's what I wanted.
00:11:42
Speaker
I didn't want the two games to look like each other.
00:11:45
Speaker
I wanted them to look different and that's what we got.
00:11:50
Speaker
Obviously, there's going to be a question about Richie coming over.
00:11:54
Speaker
And I know it was pretty much he was gone from Stern like a week later.
00:11:59
Speaker
He was with you guys.
00:12:00
Speaker
And we actually picked up a rumor beforehand that he was he was jumping ship.
00:12:06
Speaker
And I'm like, I wow, that that would be a shocker.
00:12:10
Speaker
But it ended up being true.
00:12:12
Speaker
So was this kind of a pitch to bring Steve over to say, hey, we have this license.
00:12:19
Speaker
We want you to work on it.
00:12:21
Speaker
Or did he come over and you said, okay, here's what we have.
00:12:26
Speaker
What can we match you up with?
00:12:28
Speaker
So, you know, Steve and I being friends for many years, we talked about him coming to work at Jersey Jack Pinball from the days before I started the company.
00:12:40
Speaker
And we just couldn't, we were on the same channel, but we weren't on the same frequency.
00:12:45
Speaker
The fine tuning wasn't adjusted.
00:12:48
Speaker
And things just didn't line up.
00:12:51
Speaker
With him coming in on August 2nd of, you know, a couple of years ago,
00:12:58
Speaker
It really was not about what he was going to make other than he was going to make a great game.
00:13:03
Speaker
I don't think it mattered to him at the time what the license was, what it was going to be.
00:13:09
Speaker
He wanted to come to an environment which was nurturing, where a lot of people cooperate with each other and communicate with each other, where when I told him, Steve,
00:13:19
Speaker
You can do what you want to do and nobody's going to bother you.
00:13:22
Speaker
Nobody's going to be ripping stuff out of your game.
00:13:24
Speaker
Nobody's going to tell you that you got to finish the game next week.
00:13:28
Speaker
I don't really care if this is done or that's done or the other thing is done.
00:13:33
Speaker
And we stay true to that, to that form.
00:13:35
Speaker
You know, he, he usually makes a game in about 18 months.
00:13:38
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:13:40
Speaker
took them a little bit longer.
00:13:42
Speaker
We had a lot of assets dedicated to, uh, uh, Toy Story, um, to finish that up.
00:13:49
Speaker
And, uh, you know, while we have a lot of people in the company, um, you know, there's a limit to what you have in ability and, and bandwidth of people, you know, even Apple, even Apple is limited to what they can do.
00:14:02
Speaker
You know, every company is, uh, for how many things you're doing.
00:14:05
Speaker
So, um, you know, when we handed Steve, uh,
00:14:09
Speaker
Elton John, at first, he's looking for some high-power car or jet fighter or some kind of rocket ship or some kind of wacky title like that.
00:14:23
Speaker
And I didn't have that for him.
00:14:24
Speaker
Next up was Elton John.
00:14:26
Speaker
And he said, really?
00:14:28
Speaker
And we said, yeah.
00:14:29
Speaker
And he says, OK, I'll get into it.
00:14:31
Speaker
And he did.
00:14:34
Speaker
I think he liked it a lot at the beginning.
00:14:37
Speaker
And at the end of the whole thing where we are now, I think he just loves it.
00:14:43
Speaker
You know, I've said this many times before, too.
00:14:47
Speaker
I don't think you can have a vegan in the kitchen of a steakhouse making steaks.
00:14:52
Speaker
I don't think the steaks will come out right.
00:14:54
Speaker
So you have to have the people that are on the team doing something that they really love to do.
00:14:59
Speaker
And it comes out a lot better, just like Elton John came out.
00:15:03
Speaker
Well, and speaking of Richie, you know, this game shoots so much faster and the flippers just feel very snappy.
00:15:12
Speaker
Was that something he brought to the table as well?
00:15:14
Speaker
Because like I said, it feels the flippers do feel a lot more.
00:15:17
Speaker
They're a lot stronger than the previous iterations of your games.
00:15:20
Speaker
He did.
00:15:21
Speaker
And in fairness to earlier games, all you need to do is go in and punch up the flippers.
00:15:26
Speaker
go to a higher setting and they are a lot snappier.
00:15:30
Speaker
Um, some people, you know, some people like really, uh, strong flippers.
00:15:36
Speaker
Some people like medium.
00:15:37
Speaker
Nobody wants weak flippers, right?
00:15:39
Speaker
Uh, we do have the option of backwards or weak flippers on wizard of Oz and, and, and some of the modes, which is kind of funny or reverse flippers.
00:15:48
Speaker
But Steve, um, Steve makes fast games.
00:15:51
Speaker
Let's face it.
00:15:52
Speaker
He's the king of flow and he's, um,
00:15:56
Speaker
He's not the king of pinball for nothing.
00:15:57
Speaker
He made a lot of really great games.
00:16:00
Speaker
He made a lot of great games that on location when I was an operator, when I was operating Black Knight, when I was operating Flash, when I was operating all those games, Tomcat, Star Trek Next Generation, so many of his games.
00:16:17
Speaker
They just really play really nice.
00:16:19
Speaker
You're not hitting rubber where you're not scoring anything.
00:16:22
Speaker
It's not a clunk fest.
00:16:23
Speaker
It's not like chopping wood.
00:16:24
Speaker
It's just great.
00:16:26
Speaker
And there's so many things that Elton John does.
00:16:29
Speaker
Every time I would play it, it just surprises me by all the shots I can make, especially with the upper right flipper.
00:16:35
Speaker
I can't believe it.
00:16:38
Speaker
So with the flippers at the show, is that like turned up as high as they could go or is that just kind of the new standard?
00:16:45
Speaker
No, that's factory setting.
00:16:48
Speaker
Perfect.
00:16:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:49
Speaker
You could go higher than that.
00:16:51
Speaker
You know, it's funny.
00:16:52
Speaker
There's a little warning that comes up when we have the audio equalizer or you change coil strength.
00:16:58
Speaker
We put a little warning there that says...
00:17:01
Speaker
Be careful because maybe you can blow something out or break something or whatever.
00:17:06
Speaker
I don't remember the warning because I don't pay attention to warnings.
00:17:10
Speaker
I just go right over it and I said, I don't really care.
00:17:14
Speaker
And people just adjust them and they're happy with all the different adjustments we have in the game.
00:17:21
Speaker
When you deal with a license, a lot of times you're dictated by what is available and what they're willing to offer.
00:17:29
Speaker
You have 16 songs in this, which is a lot.
00:17:35
Speaker
How did you guys select which songs you wanted to put in?
00:17:41
Speaker
First go around, I asked my wife what songs should go in the game.
00:17:46
Speaker
because she's kind of an Elton John super fan and she knows pinball and we didn't pick, you know, some of the slow ballads that everybody loved,
Song Selection Collaboration
00:17:55
Speaker
but she did pick a song like leave on, which I probably wouldn't have put in there, but she explained why it needed to be in there.
00:18:02
Speaker
And I agreed with it.
00:18:03
Speaker
And then we went to Elton John's people and they had suggestions and all their suggestions matched everything we had.
00:18:11
Speaker
So it was kind of amazing right off the bat that they felt that we had the right mix of songs.
00:18:18
Speaker
And our design team felt we had the right mix of songs.
00:18:22
Speaker
And, you know, getting Pinball Wizard was really important to me.
00:18:26
Speaker
You can't have a pinball machine without Elton John, without Pinball Wizard.
00:18:30
Speaker
And we had to get permission from Pete Townsend to have that in the game.
00:18:35
Speaker
So that was pretty cool.
00:18:38
Speaker
It sounds like that Elton John's team was very cooperative with working on it.
00:18:42
Speaker
Is that fair to say?
00:18:45
Speaker
It's probably an understatement.
00:18:47
Speaker
They were, they were spectacular.
00:18:50
Speaker
They really were.
00:18:52
Speaker
Once we, you know, in the beginning, you really don't need them because Steve's drawn lines and circles and you're fleshing out mechanisms and you're doing stuff like that.
00:19:00
Speaker
But after you get into it for about five, six months,
00:19:04
Speaker
Then you need to have weekly meetings with their people, and you're showing them creative.
00:19:09
Speaker
You're showing them ideas for artwork, ideas for the play field, ideas for the rules, ideas for graphics, motion graphics, ideas.
00:19:19
Speaker
We're asking them, can we get concert footage?
00:19:22
Speaker
Can we get the cartoons that play in the background?
00:19:25
Speaker
Can we get... Me, I'm just...
00:19:30
Speaker
I'm kind of relentless in a way when I'm looking for assets for games, because I just feel the more I give the team the better game they're going to make.
00:19:37
Speaker
And I think we've proven that a number of times.
00:19:40
Speaker
So, um, I want to get the team more stuff than they even need.
00:19:43
Speaker
Uh, I want to get them things they didn't even know existed, which we did like with the cartoons, which were never used in a commercial product other than to run behind the screen when Elton John singing at a concert.
00:19:57
Speaker
Um,
00:19:58
Speaker
We licensed the footage from the movie Tommy, where Elton John is singing Pinball Wizard.
00:20:05
Speaker
And we had to license things that were in the background.
00:20:08
Speaker
We even licensed the Gottlieb pinball machines that are shown in the clip.
00:20:13
Speaker
So it's license on top of license on top of license is probably about
00:20:19
Speaker
There's probably about 12 or 14 licenses in this game that I negotiated and secured.
00:20:25
Speaker
So, you know, our songs and music in the game, it's always full use.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's worldwide, full use, full length.
00:20:33
Speaker
It's not 15 or 30 seconds because if I'm playing a song while I'm playing the game and it loops around, I want to just bang my head against the wall.
00:20:41
Speaker
I don't want to hear it anymore.
00:20:42
Speaker
So I want to hear the full length of the song.
00:20:44
Speaker
So that's really important when we do licenses too.
00:20:47
Speaker
So,
00:20:49
Speaker
Is Elton John a pinball fan?
00:20:51
Speaker
Because he's been in the Who's Tommy and stuff like that.
00:20:56
Speaker
I was curious with all this history and background in pinball.
00:21:01
Speaker
I didn't know if he has games himself.
00:21:05
Speaker
From what I understand, he has games.
00:21:09
Speaker
I would love to inspect them personally and find out, but I don't know if I will get that opportunity.
00:21:15
Speaker
But I know back in the day,
00:21:20
Speaker
He actually bought a whole bunch of games when Captain Fantastic came out.
00:21:24
Speaker
He gave one to his mom, and he gave a bunch of them to friends of his.
00:21:28
Speaker
And certainly, he's aware of the game.
00:21:32
Speaker
Obviously, he's aware of what the game is.
00:21:36
Speaker
He did the speech calls.
00:21:37
Speaker
We wrote a bunch of speech calls for him.
00:21:39
Speaker
He did all of them.
00:21:41
Speaker
And like I said, he's shared a lot of our...
00:21:47
Speaker
videos and all our links on his Instagram and social media, Facebook, uh, whatever he has on social media, which has been great.
00:21:56
Speaker
And I just, I just would love to be a fly on the wall when they get the pinball machines, um, and see the reaction because I think they're going to flip.
00:22:07
Speaker
Maybe you can set them up.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
Maybe you can go over there and set them up for them.
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah, we'll see.
00:22:13
Speaker
Probably when I go, he'll be on vacation somewhere in a warm tropical climate.
00:22:19
Speaker
So this game, you actually dropped the price a little bit.
00:22:24
Speaker
And I would say this is kind of the challenge that I would say with La Jersey Jack games is that they tend to be higher priced than the other games.
00:22:38
Speaker
Why is that?
00:22:40
Speaker
And what can someone who's buying it and paying the extra money, what can they expect from that?
00:22:47
Speaker
Well, you know, this is a lot to unpack.
00:22:49
Speaker
So I'll try to unpack it a little bit at a time.
00:22:52
Speaker
And I'll go to the videotape, as it were.
00:22:56
Speaker
I'll go to history.
00:22:57
Speaker
So at pinballsales.com, when I was selling games 20 years ago, I was selling games for like $35.95.
00:23:07
Speaker
And they were a lot of money.
00:23:09
Speaker
And people said, how come they're almost $4,000?
00:23:13
Speaker
You know, I could buy a pinball machine for $2,000.
00:23:16
Speaker
And plays, plays, and I could have fun.
00:23:20
Speaker
And I would sell used games.
00:23:22
Speaker
And I would say, yeah, you could.
00:23:24
Speaker
You know, we were selling Twilight Zones for $1,800 at the time.
00:23:28
Speaker
You know, so go figure.
00:23:31
Speaker
You know, fast forward a little bit.
00:23:33
Speaker
We started the company in 2011. 2011.
00:23:37
Speaker
Wizard of Oz, you know, early buyers were paying $6,500.
00:23:43
Speaker
Then it went up to $7,000.
00:23:44
Speaker
Then it went up to $7,500.
00:23:47
Speaker
Fast forward a little bit more.
00:23:48
Speaker
When you bought your Ruby Red 75th anniversary game, they were probably $9,000 or $9,500.
00:23:53
Speaker
That's right.
00:23:54
Speaker
People wanted to kill me because how dare I.
00:23:59
Speaker
have a game that's $9,000 or $9,500.
00:24:01
Speaker
You just bought a similar game a few years before for as little as $6,500.
00:24:06
Speaker
So how could it be up $3,000?
00:24:11
Speaker
And, you know, the answer is everything goes up, you know, and the problem is not much comes down.
00:24:19
Speaker
It's supply and demand, true, but it's also the economy and it's also the cost of carrying the product and developing the product.
00:24:28
Speaker
So, you know,
00:24:30
Speaker
I would get questions at pinball shows, let's say, I don't know, let's say five, six, seven years ago.
00:24:37
Speaker
And they would say, how come you can't build a game for $6,000?
00:24:41
Speaker
And my answer would be kind of idiotic.
00:24:45
Speaker
I would say, well, what you're really asking me is you want my game that's $9,000 to be sold at $6,000.
00:24:53
Speaker
I said, I'd love to buy a Lamborghini for 20 grand, but it's just not going to happen.
00:24:57
Speaker
You know, there's a reason.
00:24:59
Speaker
We have experienced customers.
00:25:02
Speaker
Not experienced.
00:25:03
Speaker
They are experienced too, but experienced customers.
00:25:07
Speaker
They're playing our games for an experience.
00:25:10
Speaker
And it costs a lot more money to develop what we're doing than if we developed a different kind of product altogether.
00:25:21
Speaker
There would be less development time, less cost for assets, less cost for licensing and royalties, less people working on it.
00:25:31
Speaker
When I added that huge video screen to the first game, I knew that we were going to have to program three games' worth of stuff into one game.
00:25:42
Speaker
Because just the choreography of all the lights, all the coordination and choreography of all the sounds and speech calls,
00:25:51
Speaker
all of the video animation, all the creation of the user interface and everything that went with that, all the movie clips that you have to pay for, all the rights to actors, all of those things add up.
00:26:05
Speaker
And that's where it comes to.
00:26:06
Speaker
And today, unfortunately, we're where we are.
00:26:10
Speaker
Now, I think the good thing is that
00:26:13
Speaker
When I sold games to customers 20 years ago and I sold them a fishtails for 2,500 bucks or a whitewater for 2,500 bucks, maybe it's not a, maybe whitewater and fishtails are not $10,000 games anymore.
00:26:26
Speaker
Like they were a year or two ago.
00:26:28
Speaker
Maybe there's $7,000 games, 6,500 or $8,000 games.
00:26:33
Speaker
They're not $2,500 games though.
00:26:35
Speaker
So the customer base that's existed in pinball, they have a big bank, um,
00:26:41
Speaker
And that bank is the value of their games that they bought years ago.
00:26:45
Speaker
You know, when we bought games years ago, as an operator, I bought a game for, you know, two grand.
00:26:52
Speaker
And I threw it away after a few years.
00:26:54
Speaker
I didn't expect to resell it to somebody and make money on it.
00:26:58
Speaker
It was a workhorse.
00:26:59
Speaker
That's what it was designed to be.
00:27:00
Speaker
It was designed to make money for me.
00:27:02
Speaker
on location.
00:27:03
Speaker
And then when it didn't have a life, you traded it back to your distributor and he tried to get rid of it to somebody.
00:27:09
Speaker
And that was the end of it.
00:27:10
Speaker
It wasn't a money-making proposition and it wasn't an investment scheme.
00:27:14
Speaker
It wasn't like I'm going to buy pinball machines.
00:27:17
Speaker
And one day I'm going to retire off of them because I could sell them each for 20 grand.
00:27:21
Speaker
I think a lot of us got spoiled.
00:27:25
Speaker
You know, I think a lot of us, what happened, um,
00:27:28
Speaker
when things were go, go, go, and there was not much supply and there was a lot of demand, people were buying two games instead of one game.
00:27:35
Speaker
They were buying one to play and one to flip like a few months or a few years later.
00:27:41
Speaker
I mean, I have customers.
00:27:44
Speaker
I have customers that still have CE Pirates of the Caribbean in a box.
00:27:49
Speaker
I have customers that have brand new Emerald City limited edition games in a box.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker
I've seen them.
00:27:58
Speaker
I've been next to the box.
00:28:01
Speaker
You know, so it's not just that they tell me this.
00:28:03
Speaker
There are all kinds of customers and all kinds of people.
00:28:06
Speaker
I guess the roundabout professorial answer is, you know, that we we buy these things because we love them and we buy them because probably life is too short.
00:28:19
Speaker
And I don't want somebody telling me what I'm supposed to buy or what I'm supposed to eat or what movie I'm supposed to see or what restaurant I'm supposed to go to.
00:28:27
Speaker
I'm adult enough to figure out what I want to do with my money because I work really hard.
00:28:32
Speaker
And if I want to buy a pinball machine, I'm going to buy a pinball machine.
00:28:35
Speaker
If I want to buy 10 pinball machines, I'm going to buy 10 pinball machines.
00:28:38
Speaker
I have friends that are car collectors.
00:28:41
Speaker
I got, I got one friend.
00:28:42
Speaker
He's got 60 cars.
00:28:43
Speaker
He's also got about 70 pinball machines.
00:28:47
Speaker
Wow.
00:28:47
Speaker
What he likes to do.
00:28:48
Speaker
It's what he likes to do.
00:28:50
Speaker
I, I, you know, I collect, I collect writing instruments.
00:28:54
Speaker
Okay, Montblanc pens.
00:28:56
Speaker
It's a weakness.
00:28:57
Speaker
You know, I have all different kinds of pens.
00:29:00
Speaker
Some of them are worth hundreds of dollars.
00:29:01
Speaker
Some of them are worth thousands of dollars.
00:29:04
Speaker
You know, but you know what?
00:29:05
Speaker
If I take the pen apart and I look inside the pen, my wife would say, you're right with a $5 cartridge.
00:29:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:16
Speaker
But you know what?
00:29:17
Speaker
I like it.
00:29:18
Speaker
It's what I like.
00:29:19
Speaker
So don't tell me that I can't buy a pinball machine and what it's going to cost.
00:29:23
Speaker
You know, everything today costs more money.
00:29:25
Speaker
Right.
00:29:25
Speaker
You go to the store and buy a little box of oatmeal and it's $6.
00:29:29
Speaker
A couple of years ago it was $2.
00:29:32
Speaker
You know, what changed?
00:29:35
Speaker
I don't know.
00:29:36
Speaker
The world changed, I guess, unfortunately.
00:29:38
Speaker
We put a lot into our games.
00:29:40
Speaker
I mean, I don't want to be biased, but nobody builds a game like Jersey Jack pinball.
00:29:45
Speaker
Nobody.
00:29:47
Speaker
You know, the level and the degree of detail, the effort, the energy, the time, the passion.
00:29:53
Speaker
I know everybody else in the industry that makes pinball machines.
00:29:58
Speaker
They're doing the best they can do and they have a lot of passion.
00:30:01
Speaker
And we're doing the best that we can do and we have a lot of passion.
00:30:04
Speaker
And we believe our product is what it is.
00:30:08
Speaker
And it commands that price because that's what we need to make to make the company be profitable and survive to make more games.
00:30:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:30:16
Speaker
I've always been on record as saying that the most immersive pinball machine that I've ever played is Guns N' Roses.
00:30:26
Speaker
Because it feels like you are at the concert.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:31
Speaker
And that's different than playing, you know, the, okay, we have a lot of great band stuff, band games, and it feels like I'm playing a pinball machine with the band soundtrack.
00:30:44
Speaker
Which is different when you go, when you play a guns and roses machine, it feels like you are interactive.
00:30:50
Speaker
It's almost like a, it's, it's, it's like one of those video games that you log in on and you're part of the experience.
00:30:58
Speaker
Right.
00:30:59
Speaker
Well, again, you know, because I'm friends with slash all those years and he wanted to do the game.
00:31:03
Speaker
He had to convince me to do the game.
00:31:06
Speaker
We got all the assets that we needed and more.
00:31:09
Speaker
We had a great team on the game.
00:31:12
Speaker
It has amazing light shows.
00:31:13
Speaker
It's bringing the concert home or wherever you have the game.
00:31:17
Speaker
And I'm just very proud of that game.
00:31:18
Speaker
To date, it's been our best-selling game.
00:31:23
Speaker
So it's something that a lot of people love.
00:31:28
Speaker
And again, a lot of assets make a better game.
00:31:34
Speaker
It gives the team a better shot to use more of the assets and implement them into gameplay.
00:31:42
Speaker
With Elton John, I love that you chose Elton John because it seems to be breaking the barrier that we have artificially raised on saying we're not going to do certain artists.
00:31:54
Speaker
I mean, I've always said that there's a lot of artists that would sell a crazy amount of games.
00:32:00
Speaker
You could do Pink.
00:32:01
Speaker
You could do Taylor Swift.
00:32:02
Speaker
You could do Beyonce.
00:32:04
Speaker
You could do all these artists that don't fit the 1980s rock band mode.
00:32:11
Speaker
And it's, it's interesting.
00:32:12
Speaker
So we, my wife had her friends over last, last Friday night.
00:32:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:20
Speaker
Right.
00:32:20
Speaker
And so of the 10 games that I have downstairs in the basement, do you know which one they all went to?
00:32:30
Speaker
Wizard of Oz.
00:32:31
Speaker
Wizard of Oz.
00:32:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:32
Speaker
That's the first one.
00:32:33
Speaker
They come down.
00:32:34
Speaker
They're like, I want to play that.
00:32:36
Speaker
And so that just shows that there is a market out there that is totally untapped from your stereotypical market.
00:32:43
Speaker
Now, I'm an Elton John fan too, but I'm also solidly in that demographic of knowing who all these 80s rock bands are that they're making pins on.
00:32:53
Speaker
But I would love to play Elton John, and I would love to play in an area where I can hear the music and the sounds.
00:33:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
I mean, with Wizard of Oz...
00:33:04
Speaker
I've said it many times, you know, I chose that because I wanted to appeal to young people and to women, especially.
00:33:10
Speaker
And I had operators in New York that said to me, guys aren't going to play that game if I put that in my bar.
00:33:20
Speaker
And I said, okay, well, let's put it in your bar.
00:33:23
Speaker
And I'm going to tell you every girl in the bar is going to be playing it.
00:33:25
Speaker
And every guy is going to be right next to her.
00:33:28
Speaker
And that's exactly what happened.
00:33:30
Speaker
And the big screen happened.
00:33:32
Speaker
It wasn't there in the beginning for the player.
00:33:35
Speaker
It was there to attract people to the game like a big bug light, you know, and to inform the lookers-on about what's going on in the game and so that when they play it, they get a little bit more information about what they're supposed to do.
00:33:50
Speaker
And I said in the beginning, you know, older players like me, you got to look at the ball all the time and you're looking down and you can't look up.
00:33:57
Speaker
But unfortunately, young people could take their
00:34:01
Speaker
young people could take their phone and they can drive and text at the same time.
00:34:06
Speaker
So if they walk over to the game for the first time and you see first time players, they're taking in the whole game.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:15
Speaker
Not just taking in the balls on the play field.
00:34:18
Speaker
They're looking at the screen.
00:34:20
Speaker
They're looking at the UI.
00:34:21
Speaker
They're looking at the monitor on the play field.
00:34:23
Speaker
If there is one, they're listening for audio cues and there's some really great younger players.
00:34:30
Speaker
Um,
00:34:31
Speaker
And I say, you know, we're building a game.
00:34:33
Speaker
It's not your grandfather's
Expanding Audience with Varied Themes
00:34:34
Speaker
pinball machine.
00:34:35
Speaker
And it's just a different kind of game for today.
00:34:38
Speaker
That's what I felt needed to be built in 2011 if we were going to revive pinball.
00:34:44
Speaker
And I would tell you that the licenses that we choose, they expand the player base.
00:34:49
Speaker
You know, if you were doing the same type of license, male testosterone kind of superhero game one after another, one after another, and there's nothing wrong with that,
00:34:58
Speaker
You're not expanding the player base.
00:35:00
Speaker
We've gotten scores of leads from Elton John's website for people that are Elton John fans that didn't know anything about pinball that bought pinball machines so far.
00:35:10
Speaker
And that's going to get bigger and bigger.
00:35:12
Speaker
It happened with Godfather.
00:35:14
Speaker
So many people bought Godfather that were never pinball people.
00:35:18
Speaker
In fact, in this month's issue of Replay Magazine that I happen to have over here, this is the November issue of Replay,
00:35:26
Speaker
the industry trade magazine, you know, we advertise on the magazine, a shameless plug.
00:35:31
Speaker
We got the back cover.
00:35:33
Speaker
Um, in this month's operator poll, which is based on operators across the United States earnings.
00:35:40
Speaker
The number one pinball machine on location is the Godfather.
00:35:43
Speaker
Wow.
00:35:45
Speaker
Not bad.
00:35:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:46
Speaker
Not bad.
00:35:47
Speaker
You know, so that's what we build.
00:35:49
Speaker
We build a game.
00:35:50
Speaker
That's great for a home customer.
00:35:52
Speaker
We build a game.
00:35:53
Speaker
That's going to work reliably on location.
00:35:55
Speaker
And make money for operators.
00:35:58
Speaker
I will say I am solidly in that white middle-aged testosterone crowd.
00:36:03
Speaker
And when I got into pinball, you only had Wizard of Oz.
00:36:07
Speaker
And I pulled up Pinball Map to find out where Wizard of Oz was because I wanted to go play it.
00:36:13
Speaker
Right.
00:36:15
Speaker
Well, you know, a lot of people in the beginning, they were curious about what it was.
00:36:18
Speaker
They heard about it and they didn't know.
00:36:20
Speaker
They knew immediately that they wouldn't like it.
00:36:22
Speaker
But what happened is when they played it, they loved it.
00:36:25
Speaker
So they were pleasantly surprised and they became converts and they bought the game.
00:36:31
Speaker
I will say I also, our friend Steve Covea made a witch mod and I don't know if you've seen it, but I bought that.
00:36:39
Speaker
The one with the wishing well?
00:36:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:41
Speaker
No, no, it's not the well.
00:36:42
Speaker
It's the smoke.
00:36:44
Speaker
And so it comes up and it has all the lights on it.
00:36:46
Speaker
And man, that is a showstopper.
00:36:49
Speaker
So it's fun to modify the game too, which like, like any pinball machine, right?
00:36:53
Speaker
If you, if you want to buy something expensive and throw it in there, it'll even increase the wow factor even more.
00:37:00
Speaker
You know, it's funny.
00:37:01
Speaker
You talk about mods and things like that.
00:37:03
Speaker
Wizard of Oz was the first game to have a topper on it in 15 years.
00:37:08
Speaker
So, you know, think about the topper market today.
00:37:12
Speaker
And what that's become.
00:37:13
Speaker
Right.
00:37:14
Speaker
Yep.
00:37:14
Speaker
And, you know, Wizard of Oz, as much stuff as it had on it, it encouraged a lot of mod people to make all kinds of mods for it.
00:37:22
Speaker
Right.
00:37:22
Speaker
So I think when you start something like we did, you're a catalyst to stir up the marketplace when the marketplace was like circling the drain and about to go down the drain.
00:37:36
Speaker
And.
00:37:37
Speaker
I think a lot of people came into the market to buy games.
00:37:41
Speaker
There was a lot of excitement.
00:37:43
Speaker
There was a horse race between two companies.
00:37:46
Speaker
Now there's maybe 22 companies or more.
00:37:50
Speaker
So speaking of toppers, on this Elton John, you've got two big displays.
00:37:54
Speaker
Are these the same displays you guys had in Toy Story?
00:37:57
Speaker
I think they're similar.
00:37:59
Speaker
We only had a few left over from Toy Story.
00:38:02
Speaker
We had to order them.
00:38:03
Speaker
But I think when Steve wanted it, he looked at the biggest one we could put on there.
00:38:08
Speaker
And I think that was the biggest one we could put on there.
00:38:11
Speaker
And so he wasn't just happy with one.
00:38:14
Speaker
He wanted the full concert experience, and he wanted two.
00:38:18
Speaker
Nothing wrong with that.
00:38:20
Speaker
Well, Steve's a man of extremes.
00:38:21
Speaker
Let's say that.
00:38:22
Speaker
It looks really cool with the laser going up and shining on the ceiling too.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:28
Speaker
And, you know, we had custom laser images with Elton John's logo and stars and the Elton John logo from the bumper cap, the old style.
00:38:40
Speaker
Maybe I got one up here.
00:38:42
Speaker
The old style bumper cap, you know, this logo.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:46
Speaker
And then Jersey Jack logo.
00:38:48
Speaker
And it's quite a light show on the top.
00:38:50
Speaker
It's beautiful.
00:38:52
Speaker
So are, are the actual lasers?
00:38:54
Speaker
I thought, may I misunderstood, but someone was saying there aren't actually lasers in the top or it's just the way that they project.
00:39:01
Speaker
No, it's, it's the laser light show.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:07
Speaker
So they go through, they go through, I think a glass prism that rotates, um, with the different logos and different, uh,
00:39:15
Speaker
And different effects.
00:39:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:20
Speaker
So has, has Jersey Jack changed?
00:39:22
Speaker
Has the atmosphere changed now that Pat Lawler is retired and Steve has now stepped in as kind of the senior figure of designers?
00:39:31
Speaker
You know, I think I'm not there every day.
00:39:34
Speaker
I think anytime somebody is added or moves or changes around, things change.
00:39:39
Speaker
You know, I used to say years ago, I had a fish tank and all the fish were happy and I would go to the pet shop and buy a new fish and put it in the tank and everybody would be fighting for territory and nipping fins and killing each other, you know.
00:39:53
Speaker
So I think every company has a delicate ecosystem in a way.
00:39:57
Speaker
And when people come and go, they leave a big hole.
00:40:01
Speaker
Pat was certainly a great mentor, and he was a great source of knowledge and a great...
00:40:09
Speaker
passionate person that loves pinball.
00:40:12
Speaker
So I think having Pat and me bringing him back to pinball back in 2016 was a great thing.
00:40:20
Speaker
Sorry, 2013 was a great thing.
00:40:24
Speaker
You know, he was able to do three games for us, which I think all three games were great.
00:40:29
Speaker
You can't mistake a Pat Lola game when you walk up to it and play it.
00:40:33
Speaker
But, you know, everybody...
00:40:36
Speaker
Like I said before about buying something, you know, life's too short, you know, do you want to work till you fall over inside a pinball cabinet or you want to spend some time with your family and travel the world and have a good time with your life, you know?
00:40:48
Speaker
So, uh, you know, we all can't do everything forever.
00:40:53
Speaker
You know, everything, everything changes.
New Developments: Three Games in Progress
00:40:57
Speaker
So with the games, this is a, it seems like you're accelerating your release schedule.
00:41:03
Speaker
And you have said on record that you want games, you know, one to two a year, which is roughly, I'm saying about 18 months or so.
00:41:12
Speaker
We're going to be getting, so how many games do you have in development right now?
00:41:18
Speaker
We have three games in development right now.
00:41:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:22
Speaker
We have three designers and three games in development.
00:41:26
Speaker
So Steve got off one horse and got on another horse already.
00:41:33
Speaker
No rest for the weary, right?
00:41:36
Speaker
He's not that weary.
00:41:38
Speaker
He's got a lot of energy.
00:41:39
Speaker
I know you spend time with him.
00:41:40
Speaker
He's got a lot of energy.
00:41:43
Speaker
He doesn't surprise a lot of people.
00:41:47
Speaker
People just see him as perpetual motion like his games.
00:41:53
Speaker
So I've noticed over the last couple of licenses, I mean, Godfather and Elton John, these are more 60s and 70s titles.
00:42:02
Speaker
Are you going to be, I mean, obviously it hasn't been all those kinds of titles.
00:42:06
Speaker
I mean, you've had Wizard of Oz, you know, to newer stuff.
00:42:09
Speaker
1939 title.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:14
Speaker
Are you focusing on a certain genre or is it just kind of wherever the wind takes you kind of thing?
00:42:19
Speaker
Well, it's really not however the wind takes us.
00:42:21
Speaker
We have certain things that we want to achieve.
00:42:25
Speaker
Licenses that we look for need to appeal to a wide range of people, ages, also...
00:42:34
Speaker
demographically.
00:42:35
Speaker
What plays well in Australia might not play well in Germany.
00:42:39
Speaker
So we have to be conscious of different markets around the world for different products.
00:42:45
Speaker
Something that might be well known in the US might not be well known in Europe or some other part of the world.
00:42:52
Speaker
So we'd be eliminating a lot of sales in different parts of the world with different licenses or different themes.
00:42:58
Speaker
So that's always something top of mind.
00:43:02
Speaker
So I guess the one question everyone wants to know too, Joe Kamen Cow, which is a big licensor for Stern and for other products outside of pinball, had announced that you guys have landed Harry Potter.
00:43:15
Speaker
I don't know.
00:43:16
Speaker
Is there something you want to say to that?
00:43:18
Speaker
Or I know you don't want to give away if you have a title or not, but it's kind of abrupt and we usually don't
00:43:25
Speaker
go after rumors, but with this being such a predominant figure of someone that is in pinball and licensing, didn't know if you wanted to clear the air on it.
00:43:33
Speaker
Well, I guess you have to ask Joe Cam and cow.
00:43:35
Speaker
I don't, I don't know him.
00:43:37
Speaker
I never had a conversation with him in my life.
00:43:39
Speaker
Um, why he said that, I guess you have to ask him if I didn't have the license, I wouldn't tell you.
00:43:47
Speaker
I don't have it.
00:43:47
Speaker
And if I did have it, I wouldn't tell you I did have it.
00:43:50
Speaker
So to, to, to be determined.
00:43:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's no secret.
00:43:57
Speaker
A lot of people want the license and have, you know, tried to get the license.
00:44:02
Speaker
And, you know, the rumor about what J.K.
00:44:05
Speaker
Rowling believes pinball is and all that stuff.
00:44:07
Speaker
I only know what you guys know about what's been out there in the public and what people have said.
00:44:12
Speaker
So I don't really have anything to add to it.
00:44:16
Speaker
I thought when I heard it, I thought it was unusual.
00:44:19
Speaker
Again, I don't know the person.
00:44:21
Speaker
I know who he is, but...
00:44:25
Speaker
You know, sometimes people have a reason for doing something and sometimes people don't have a reason for doing something.
00:44:32
Speaker
I don't know.
00:44:32
Speaker
I don't read much into it.
00:44:35
Speaker
Cannot confirm nor deny.
00:44:36
Speaker
Neither confirm nor deny.
00:44:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:39
Speaker
Telling you guys in the press saying you can't confirm it or deny it.
00:44:43
Speaker
Well, that's... Hey, you know what?
00:44:44
Speaker
We just talk about what people want to talk about.
00:44:47
Speaker
News report news.
00:44:49
Speaker
Okay, so what's your favorite song of the 16 tracks?
00:44:53
Speaker
And do songs correspond to different modes, such as hitting different shots?
00:45:01
Speaker
Okay, I'm actually going to go first.
00:45:04
Speaker
I love that you put Crocodile Rock in here, because that is my favorite Elton John song.
00:45:10
Speaker
I think in this game, you know, I love all the Elton John songs, which I know is not the answer, but
00:45:16
Speaker
My favorite when I played the game, you know, you can select whatever song you want.
00:45:20
Speaker
There's different light shows with every different song, which is just amazing to see what they've done.
00:45:27
Speaker
Bill Grupp and the whole team, they're just amazing what they've done with the game.
00:45:39
Speaker
You know, I think my favorite song has to be Pinball Wizard.
00:45:41
Speaker
I know it's not an original Elton John song.
00:45:44
Speaker
I know it's The Who.
00:45:45
Speaker
But I guess just when I play the game and I'm playing Pinball Wizard, it just takes me back to the day in 1976 that I opened up that Captain Fantastic game.
00:45:56
Speaker
It just does something for me.
00:46:01
Speaker
You know, I mean, I love to hear every song.
00:46:04
Speaker
A lot of times I'll play my game on four players.
00:46:08
Speaker
And I'll just shoot the ball and it'll pick, you know, whatever song at random kind of thing.
00:46:12
Speaker
And I'll just play through it.
00:46:14
Speaker
And I just love that the game surprised me all the time.
00:46:18
Speaker
You know, I walk up to it.
00:46:19
Speaker
I'm smiling.
00:46:21
Speaker
It makes you happy.
00:46:23
Speaker
The orbit shots, the just, you know, it's not difficult to follow the rules.
00:46:30
Speaker
I have to spell out and I have to collect wardrobe items.
00:46:34
Speaker
I have to try to lock three balls in the piano.
00:46:37
Speaker
I see Elton at the piano and he's, his arms are moving up and down to the music and he's turning his head to look at me and back and forth.
00:46:44
Speaker
I'm like, holy crap.
00:46:46
Speaker
You know, Steve, Steve thought of that thing and he made it real.
00:46:51
Speaker
You know, he made it real.
00:46:53
Speaker
Some people told him just make it a stationary thing.
00:46:56
Speaker
Don't knock yourself out.
00:46:57
Speaker
It don't have to work, but,
00:46:59
Speaker
Steve being Steve, he just doesn't take no, he just keeps plowing right through everything until he gets what he wants.
00:47:05
Speaker
It's a really cool effect.
00:47:09
Speaker
You know, you look at that and it's practical too.
00:47:12
Speaker
I mean, it's a three ball lock, you know, it's not just for the heck of it.
00:47:16
Speaker
Um,
00:47:17
Speaker
I like bashing the drop targets.
00:47:20
Speaker
I always love games with drop targets.
00:47:22
Speaker
And, you know, in the absence of a dedicated bash toy, I'll take three drop targets and if I hit them the wrong way, I'm going to drain right down the middle.
00:47:32
Speaker
So I got to be careful about how I'm going to hit those drop targets to collect my albums.
00:47:38
Speaker
I'm the same way with drop targets.
00:47:40
Speaker
If I have the option of buying a version of the game with stand-up targets or drop targets, I will pay more for the drop targets.
00:47:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think it goes back to me playing Jack in the Box and those games that had, you know, like 10 drop targets along the top that you had to complete three times to, you know, roll over A, B, C, D kind of thing.
00:47:59
Speaker
You know, rules were a lot.
00:48:01
Speaker
I didn't even know when I started repairing games that there were rules to games.
00:48:05
Speaker
I just figured, what the hell do I know?
00:48:07
Speaker
You're just shooting...
00:48:08
Speaker
You know, people ask me, what do I do?
00:48:10
Speaker
I said, shoot the blinking lights.
00:48:12
Speaker
You know, that's what you do.
00:48:13
Speaker
I mean, there were no speech calls in electromechanical pinball, you know, unless you had somebody standing next to you telling you what to do.
00:48:21
Speaker
That was the only speech call you had.
00:48:24
Speaker
So we kind of talked about this a little bit before the show, but how is it having everyone over in Chicago?
00:48:30
Speaker
Is it, you're still in Jersey, so is there any plans to move to Chicago or are you just happy where you're at?
00:48:38
Speaker
Well, just like we're doing now, pretty much every day I'm on Zoom calls and FaceTime calls with people at the factory.
00:48:44
Speaker
And I go there at least once a month.
00:48:46
Speaker
So I don't feel really any separation anxiety.
00:48:49
Speaker
I feel like I know what's going on there.
00:48:52
Speaker
So I don't have a plan to move to Chicago, even though it's a beautiful place to be.
00:48:57
Speaker
You know, JP still lives in Holland.
00:48:59
Speaker
He's not moving to Chicago.
00:49:01
Speaker
We have other people that work for the company remotely around the world.
00:49:06
Speaker
Having a team and everybody in one building is a benefit because, you know, COVID separated a lot of people.
00:49:14
Speaker
But now that everybody's back together, you have an idea, you have a question, you have a problem.
00:49:19
Speaker
You just walk over to somebody and say, hey, I got a minute.
00:49:22
Speaker
I need to talk to you.
00:49:23
Speaker
And, you know, you get your problem solved.
00:49:25
Speaker
You get your idea.
00:49:27
Speaker
across, you can brainstorm about a lot of things.
00:49:30
Speaker
It's really good to have everybody pretty much in one place.
00:49:35
Speaker
So you have, there have been a lot of people who are interested in some older games.
00:49:42
Speaker
For example, Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:49:45
Speaker
A lot of people keep asking about that because the buzz for the game happened after the sales had already trickled off.
00:49:54
Speaker
And so you had moved on to different games because that's just the market.
00:49:59
Speaker
Is it conceivable to consider rerunning some of these old games?
Focus on New Developments over Old Games
00:50:04
Speaker
You have run some old games like Hobbit.
00:50:07
Speaker
You did the Black Arrow edition.
00:50:09
Speaker
You've done Wizard of Oz.
00:50:10
Speaker
You did the Yellow Brick Road.
00:50:12
Speaker
Any other titles that are on the table to consider running?
00:50:19
Speaker
I guess that's why the rearview mirror is small and the windshield is big because we're going forward.
00:50:24
Speaker
And I think we really don't have time to go backwards and rerun things that we did in the past.
00:50:30
Speaker
Although, you know, you might make sales of those games.
00:50:36
Speaker
I don't doubt that you would, but we have so many things that we're working on and so much technology that we're adding to games now.
00:50:44
Speaker
I said, I think I said at Expo that Wizard of Oz had 139 RGB LEDs and it won all kinds of awards.
00:50:52
Speaker
And we're pushing 1600 RGB LEDs in the CE Elton John.
00:50:59
Speaker
And just everybody's head in the room when I said that, I could see a massive explosion of everybody's head like, really?
00:51:05
Speaker
Wow.
00:51:07
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:51:08
Speaker
I'm not looking at vault games.
00:51:10
Speaker
I'm not looking at rerunning things.
00:51:11
Speaker
I'm not looking at...
00:51:13
Speaker
I'm really not looking at that stuff.
00:51:15
Speaker
It's not on any short or long list.
00:51:18
Speaker
It's nice to have people say that they want you to do something over again.
00:51:22
Speaker
It's flattering and it's humbling in a way, but it's not in the plan of the company to do that.
00:51:30
Speaker
How has the company responding to sales of Elton John?
00:51:37
Speaker
Has the buzz been matched what you're searching for?
Collector Editions: Current Sales Success
00:51:41
Speaker
I think so.
00:51:42
Speaker
You know, it's a market that's different than it was a year or two or three or four years ago.
00:51:50
Speaker
We're pretty close to being sold out of the collector edition games.
00:51:54
Speaker
And we have good numbers on the Platinum Edition games.
00:51:57
Speaker
We're at a little bit of a disadvantage because this time I really wanted to get to Expo and show the game.
00:52:04
Speaker
So I took a page out of my old playbook where we used to go to a show and not have games in a box where the last few releases we had a few hundred games in boxes.
00:52:14
Speaker
We showed the game, typically not at a show.
00:52:17
Speaker
And then immediately we shipped hundreds of games and they were on location popping up in people's basements and everything like that.
00:52:24
Speaker
This time around, there's going to be a little lag of a few weeks, but there's still a lot of excitement with selling games every day.
00:52:31
Speaker
I have a lot of our distributors around the world setting up different open houses and parties.
00:52:37
Speaker
You know, I'll be in Connecticut at Automated Services on December 2nd.
00:52:40
Speaker
I'm sure I'll have an Elton John game there.
00:52:42
Speaker
I don't know if I'll be in my costume or not, but stay tuned.
00:52:47
Speaker
You know, and a lot of other distributors around the country are excited to get games.
00:52:50
Speaker
And I do think what's going to happen...
00:52:53
Speaker
is what happened in front of me at Expo.
00:52:56
Speaker
I had people that were non-buyers of Elton John, not interested until they played the game.
00:53:03
Speaker
And when they played the game, the pinball player in them came out and said, holy crap, this is a really great game.
00:53:09
Speaker
And it has really great music that I love and that I grew up with.
00:53:12
Speaker
And I have to buy this game.
00:53:16
Speaker
I agree.
00:53:17
Speaker
I'm excited too, that, uh, you guys have fresh blood that it's never done a game before.
00:53:23
Speaker
And, and I'm, I'm excited to see your newest designer.
00:53:26
Speaker
He's going to be coming up.
00:53:28
Speaker
If my math runs right, unless you got Eric up next, but, uh, your newest designer should be coming out shortly.
00:53:34
Speaker
Um, how has it been working with him?
00:53:37
Speaker
He's really humble.
00:53:39
Speaker
Um, he's really learning a lot from Eric and from Steve, especially, um,
00:53:46
Speaker
I think he's just like a sponge.
00:53:48
Speaker
I love Mark.
00:53:49
Speaker
He's just a great guy.
00:53:51
Speaker
He's got a great personality.
00:53:52
Speaker
He's got a great attitude.
00:53:54
Speaker
He's overcome a lot of obstacles and things.
00:53:58
Speaker
You know, when I told you that when Steve came in the company, a lot of the assets of the company were directed on finishing Toy Story.
00:54:06
Speaker
And...
00:54:07
Speaker
Mark had to do, you know, a lot of work by himself.
00:54:11
Speaker
And thankfully, he's able to do a lot of that in the beginning of his game to get it going and get it down the road a little bit before the cavalry came and joined them as the team.
00:54:22
Speaker
And I think his game is going to be great, too.
00:54:25
Speaker
I think it's going to surprise a lot of people.
00:54:28
Speaker
Well, I'm excited to see it, especially where Mark came from the homebrew.
00:54:33
Speaker
Right.
00:54:33
Speaker
He was a homebrew hatching.
00:54:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:37
Speaker
And his Metroid game is very impressive.
00:54:39
Speaker
And so I can't wait to see what he's cooked up with, with the, with the environment that's there at Jersey Jack and be able to lean on those that have been in the industry for years and push out a product.
00:54:50
Speaker
This is Mark Seiden we're talking about.
00:54:52
Speaker
Sorry, I forgot to announce his full name, but.
00:54:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:55
Speaker
You know, there's really a welcoming, nurturing, positive energy in the building.
00:55:02
Speaker
Everybody's working as a team.
00:55:05
Speaker
I think that's really important.
00:55:07
Speaker
There's not people working against each other.
00:55:10
Speaker
There's friendly competition, of course.
00:55:14
Speaker
There's people that have egos because that's not a bad thing completely.
00:55:18
Speaker
It's good to be proud of what you do and what you accomplish and what you want to accomplish.
00:55:23
Speaker
But it's also good to help each other and give each other advice.
00:55:28
Speaker
You know, if you see somebody who's going to go over the cliff, you should probably say something to them before they go over the cliff, not laugh as they're going over the cliff, bouncing around on rocks, you know.
00:55:38
Speaker
So it's good that the environment is that way.
00:55:41
Speaker
I'm very pleased with that.
00:55:44
Speaker
So you are over 10 years since deciding to jump into building your own company.
Reflecting on Jersey Jack's Early Days
00:55:53
Speaker
So when you're looking back in the rear view mirror, what are the things that you're most proud of and also the things that you were unexpected challenges or maybe happy accidents?
00:56:09
Speaker
Well, I think I'm most proud of the people in the company, the people that helped me start the company.
00:56:16
Speaker
But I'm most grateful to the people that believed in me and the people in the company when they first gave us money and they put down money on a game that they never saw from a company that had no factory and had no track record at all.
00:56:31
Speaker
And it was just...
00:56:33
Speaker
I guess there was a lot of hope and a lot of wishes that I would come through and the team would come through and they'd make a great game.
00:56:41
Speaker
And I knew one thing in the very beginning, you know, think about it.
00:56:45
Speaker
I didn't have this deposit system where you don't get your money back.
00:56:49
Speaker
If you wanted your money back, you got your money back.
00:56:52
Speaker
And there was nobody that didn't get their money back that wanted it back.
00:56:56
Speaker
And I knew one thing I knew if we made a game that wasn't good,
00:57:00
Speaker
when we make the first hundred, the other 900 people at the end of the list would want their money back.
00:57:06
Speaker
So I knew it was important to make a really great product and make something that people wanted and that they would stay in for and they had a lot of patience.
00:57:15
Speaker
So I think, I think, you know, the beginning, I'm most proud of the beginning because without the beginning, there's no continuation of the company.
00:57:24
Speaker
And I think one of the biggest surprises to me
00:57:28
Speaker
when I started the company, my mind was just, I wanted to make great games.
00:57:33
Speaker
I didn't really think of the personal side of it.
00:57:36
Speaker
I didn't think of social media where, you know, I'm going to get accused of all kinds of things, or people are going to put words in my mouth and people are going to say, I said this, or I said that, or I did this, or I did that.
00:57:48
Speaker
So much of that was just not, not correct and personal attacks.
00:57:55
Speaker
And we had a lot of people in the beginning who,
00:57:58
Speaker
that were wishing us well.
00:57:59
Speaker
And we had a lot of people in the beginning wishing that we'd fallen a wishing well.
00:58:03
Speaker
So I'm happy that we, that we made it through the difficult times, a little acorn that popped out of the ground that grew into a little sapling.
00:58:13
Speaker
And now it's a pretty nice tree that's going, growing pretty well.
00:58:16
Speaker
So I'm very proud of it.
00:58:18
Speaker
I'm also, you know, people say to me things like you guys said in the beginning, you know, that we revived pinball, things like that, you know,
00:58:27
Speaker
I didn't really think of that whole thing.
00:58:29
Speaker
I wasn't trying to be some kind of hero or, you know, somebody that was setting out to rebuild the whole industry.
00:58:39
Speaker
But it's been nice.
00:58:41
Speaker
It's been humbling when people say that to me at shows and things like that.
00:58:44
Speaker
I just take it in stride and I'm very humbled by it and appreciative of it.
00:58:48
Speaker
You know, we're all we're all trying to do our part to make pinball grow.
00:58:51
Speaker
And that's all I felt that I've been doing.
00:58:54
Speaker
Well, we had Larry DeMar on two episodes ago, and he even said, you know, the best thing that's happened to pinball in the last 10 years is Jersey Jack showing off Wizard of Oz.
00:59:04
Speaker
Larry's very kind, and he has said that to me in person, which is very, again, very humbling.
00:59:11
Speaker
You know, Larry's a real legend in the industry, not just the pinball industry, but the amusement game industry, you know, doing Robotron and all the games he did.
00:59:20
Speaker
And he's a really kind person.
00:59:22
Speaker
I appreciate hearing that.
00:59:26
Speaker
All right.
00:59:26
Speaker
Now your company has morphed.
00:59:29
Speaker
It used to be more of a, you know, you started with kind of a one man pyramid, but you've also brought more people in who are part of the company.
00:59:38
Speaker
And how has that affected the dynamics and the ability for Jersey Jack to move forward?
00:59:48
Speaker
Because the more people you have, I would say the more production power you have and maybe the more input you have.
00:59:54
Speaker
Well, you know, we're always hiring.
00:59:57
Speaker
There's never a time when we're not hiring.
00:59:59
Speaker
We're always looking for really great people, people that are motivated, people that are talented, people that want to make great pinball machines.
01:00:06
Speaker
So, um, you can't do these kinds of things by yourself.
01:00:09
Speaker
It's always a team.
01:00:11
Speaker
Um, I don't take credit for anything by myself.
01:00:13
Speaker
It doesn't happen without a lot of people involved.
01:00:16
Speaker
I give credit to God as well.
01:00:18
Speaker
Um, and, and, um,
01:00:22
Speaker
It's just, you know, every day putting one foot in front of the other.
01:00:25
Speaker
There's always a problem that pops up.
01:00:26
Speaker
There's always something you have to anticipate.
01:00:29
Speaker
The unknown unknown is the worst kind of information that there possibly could be.
01:00:34
Speaker
And there's plenty of that in pinball.
01:00:35
Speaker
So having more people, you know, I might know a lot because I'm in the industry a long time and I have a lot of experience.
01:00:42
Speaker
But I can tell you, me coupled with Steve Ritchie, coupled with three or four or five other people, are definitely a lot more brain trust than any one of us individually.
01:00:51
Speaker
So that's why cooperation and communication together are really important.
01:01:00
Speaker
That's all my questions, Scott.
01:01:02
Speaker
Do you have any more?
01:01:02
Speaker
No, I think it's great.
01:01:04
Speaker
Jack, we'd like to thank you so much for coming on.
01:01:08
Speaker
Your games are great.
01:01:10
Speaker
We love having them, and I do love playing them.
01:01:13
Speaker
They are awesome.
01:01:16
Speaker
They are awesome collector pieces in anybody's basement.
01:01:20
Speaker
So I'm wearing your hat today, but we're going to send you some of ours.
01:01:25
Speaker
So we'll get you some swag.
01:01:27
Speaker
By the way, I don't think you guys are losers.
01:01:30
Speaker
You guys are winners.
01:01:30
Speaker
Maybe it should be the Winter Kid podcast, you know?
01:01:35
Speaker
Well, we'll consider changing that.
01:01:37
Speaker
You're not a loser.
01:01:38
Speaker
I'm not a loser.
01:01:41
Speaker
It's not a Tuma.
01:01:44
Speaker
It's not a Tuma.
01:01:45
Speaker
Okay, two things.
01:01:46
Speaker
One, if they want to send you a message, how they get a hold of you.
01:01:49
Speaker
And two, if they are thinking of joining the Jersey Jack team, how do they apply?
01:01:55
Speaker
Jack at JerseyJackPinball.com.
01:01:58
Speaker
We'll get you signed up.
01:01:59
Speaker
We'll get you games.
01:02:00
Speaker
We'll get you swag.
01:02:01
Speaker
We'll get you whatever you want.
01:02:04
Speaker
Okay, I want rad decals.
01:02:05
Speaker
That's what I want.
01:02:08
Speaker
Rad decals.
01:02:09
Speaker
Rad decals for Wizard of Oz.
01:02:11
Speaker
I can't find that tomorrow.
01:02:12
Speaker
Tomorrow's Veterans Day.
01:02:13
Speaker
We're closed.
01:02:14
Speaker
In honor of all the veterans.
01:02:15
Speaker
Thank you all the veterans for your service to the country.
01:02:18
Speaker
We really love you and appreciate you.
01:02:19
Speaker
So we're closed in honor of Veterans Day tomorrow, but I'll find out on Monday if we have any.
01:02:24
Speaker
Excellent.
01:02:25
Speaker
Thanks, Jack.
01:02:26
Speaker
I get phone calls all the time from people that need help with their games, that have questions.
01:02:32
Speaker
If you get a Jersey Jack game, I'll just say this kind of funny thing.
01:02:36
Speaker
If you get a Jersey Jack game on every game box, there's a little warning there that says if the box is damaged,
01:02:43
Speaker
that you should refuse it and call this phone number.
01:02:46
Speaker
And there's a toll-free number printed on the box.
01:02:50
Speaker
It rings on my cell phone.
01:02:51
Speaker
Wow.
01:02:53
Speaker
That's awesome.
01:02:55
Speaker
Wow.
01:02:56
Speaker
Wow.
01:02:56
Speaker
I can't expect anybody in the company to answer the phone at all hours of the day and night and get somebody on the other end that says, somebody put a forklift through my box.
01:03:07
Speaker
All right.
01:03:09
Speaker
I don't know of any other president who puts their cell phone on the side of their boxes.
01:03:13
Speaker
You have to do that.
01:03:14
Speaker
You know, really our customers become our friends after so long.
01:03:18
Speaker
And really it's, it's not work.
01:03:21
Speaker
It's just something I do that I love to do, you know?
01:03:23
Speaker
So people are buying our product.
01:03:26
Speaker
The least we could do is help them out, support them and be there for them, you know, and, and take care of them when they need us.
01:03:31
Speaker
You know, if they, they remember what you do for them when they need you, when they don't need you, you could do anything.
01:03:37
Speaker
And nobody remembers anything.
01:03:38
Speaker
But in the bad times, when people have problems, you take care of them.
01:03:42
Speaker
They really appreciate
Closing: Gratitude and Contributions
01:03:43
Speaker
it.
01:03:43
Speaker
And you get the loyalty and friendship forever.
01:03:46
Speaker
Well, we wish we wish you all the best.
01:03:48
Speaker
And certainly you are a great asset into the pantheon of pinball makers right now.
01:03:53
Speaker
Thank you, guys.
01:03:54
Speaker
And I appreciate you guys spreading the word of pinball, too.
01:03:57
Speaker
Now I have to go listen to another 120 episodes that you guys do.
01:04:00
Speaker
That sounds good.
01:04:02
Speaker
It's a lot of fun.
01:04:03
Speaker
Before we stop recording, two things.
01:04:06
Speaker
First off, we're going to... So Jack said in this interview what their best-selling game is to date.
01:04:11
Speaker
We're doing a giveaway.
01:04:12
Speaker
Ken Cromwell's been nice enough.
01:04:14
Speaker
He's giving us some Jersey Jack swag.
01:04:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:04:16
Speaker
We're going to give away your poster, an Elton John poster.
01:04:19
Speaker
We're doing an Elton John poster.
01:04:21
Speaker
So if you know that answer, you can either email it to us at loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com or...
01:04:28
Speaker
Type it in the comments of this episode.
01:04:31
Speaker
If you are right, we're going to put you in a drawing and we'll do it next episode.
01:04:35
Speaker
And we'll do it live or well, recorded live, whatever it may be.
01:04:39
Speaker
We'll record it live.
01:04:42
Speaker
And then the last thing is, if you want to get a hold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:04:47
Speaker
Or if you want to get to us on the socials, we're at Loser Kid Pinball.
01:04:50
Speaker
That's Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitch, YouTube, all the socials.
01:04:56
Speaker
So hit us up on all those.
01:04:57
Speaker
I guess it's X now.
01:04:58
Speaker
I apologize.
01:04:59
Speaker
Formerly known as, this is Prince, right?
01:05:01
Speaker
Like X, formerly known as Twitter.
01:05:04
Speaker
Sure.
01:05:05
Speaker
Anywho.
01:05:05
Speaker
Everyone still says Twitter.
01:05:07
Speaker
Yep.
01:05:08
Speaker
Thanks again for coming on, Jack.
01:05:09
Speaker
We appreciate it.
01:05:10
Speaker
Thank you, Jack.
01:05:11
Speaker
I really appreciate the time.
01:05:12
Speaker
Thank you.
01:05:13
Speaker
And I hope I see you guys the next show.
01:05:16
Speaker
Sounds good.
01:05:16
Speaker
Go buy Elm John.
01:05:18
Speaker
Thank you.
01:05:20
Speaker
Thanks.