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The CEO of the PPA Has New Plans For Professional Pickleball
579 Plays1 year ago
Amidst the pickleball tour wars, the rule and equipment regulations and paddle testing, tournament operations, stands the man who makes the final decisions, Connor Pardoe. The individual who started the organization at 24, but not without the “family” he’s built to support it all.
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CHAPTERS 00:00 intro 01:15 beginning 02:06 trying to grow something 03:27 relationship between Tom Dundon and Connor 04:22 starting the ppa 07:09 new venue, matt wright 08:17 impact of entrepreneurship, his health, family 11:23 rapid fire questions 11:56 selling an idea to investors 14:44 conviction when everyone is doubtful 16:03 what is the PPAs mission 18:00 why vulcan 19:50 rule change with qualies and signed pros 23:55 outlook 3 years from now 25:55 paddle testing 31:05 paddle testing conflict of interest 34:04 pivotal for growth of the sport 34:28 his impact on pickleball 36:01 advice for entrepreneurs
#pickleball #tennis #podcast
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Transcript
Evolution and Challenges in Pickleball
00:00:00
Speaker
So the timing of this interview could not have been better amidst everything going on right now. ah One thing that we will be announcing soon, and I'm i'm fine to say it here you think about how many things have happened over those five years and how much has changed.
00:00:31
Speaker
years since that young man announced his dream, and now he's got some new challenges ahead of him.
Confidence Issues in Testing and Standards
00:00:37
Speaker
And unfortunately, we tried for a couple of years. USA Pickleball used to be out at every at every event. They tried to test. And the gap was just too big for the confidence level for both manufacturers and both for players. How do we let players, manufacturers, fans, and everyone have confidence on the court to say, everyone's playing this within the same legal limits?
Connor's Legacy and Personal Reflections
00:00:57
Speaker
you know First and foremost, when I think about like what do I want to be remembered for at the end of the day, I want to be remembered as one heck of a husband and one heck of a dad.
00:01:05
Speaker
This is a story of Connor Pardo, founder and CEO of the PPA.
00:01:15
Speaker
wasn't expecting this excited yeah dude there was i i got told this morning i'm like this is great Thank you, man. I'm a big fan. No, I appreciate it. There's like, I did like, I've only done like three interviews where I was the guest and one of the guys was like, who's the one person that you would want on the podcast? I was like, players are pretty accessible. So it's like, who else? I was like, probably Connor Pardo. Appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, dude, you're in such a tough position. It's hard. I think it's hard for people to grasp how difficult it is to be in your role because you have to play to so many sides. Like you have investors, you have players, you have,
00:01:51
Speaker
friends, you have family, you have so many people that, so many people so many people to take into consideration. it's Yeah, not not really envious of your role. It's tough, but I mean, super, super grateful for what you do.
Managing the PPA and Its Mission
00:02:08
Speaker
And I know that there's probably a lot of controversy of as far as the decisions that are made, but yeah, thank you.
00:02:14
Speaker
No, I appreciate it. I mean, um it's definitely that's definitely true. i mean Trying to grow something from the start, like you're going to make a lot of really good decisions that are really good and that really grow the sport and you try to make more of those and try to learn from the things that you do right. And then you're going to make decisions and you're going to mess up, you're going to screw up, you're going to figure out things that don't work and how do you get better each and every day. I think the most important thing is ah Everybody might not always believe that things should be done a certain way, but if you just try to do the best thing and try to do the right thing every day, that's all you can really do at the end of the day. Because you're right, there's there's pro players, there's fans, there's pickleball crazies, there's investors. And so sometimes it's hard for everybody to think that things should be done the exact same way. Most of the time it is. 90% of the time I think it's easy, but there's 10% of the time where you just try to do what's best.
00:03:05
Speaker
What do you factor in when you're making decisions? Because I know you have an entrepreneur entrepreneurial background with like real estate. So like maybe it started then, but how do you come to decisions?
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think for us, one, we have a ah great team of people. um One thing that I, you know, I think one of the most pinnacle moments in, yeah, I guess my pickleball journey is when Tom Duncan and I started working together, like having someone like that, that you can bounce ideas off. like I don't think people understand because he's not really a front facing guy. Like he's in the office with me every single week.
00:03:40
Speaker
i'm talking to him every morning i've already talked to him three times since today i talked to him at midnight i talked to him again at five am m but having somebody that cares so much about the sport that understands business understand sports and just someone that has so much life experience to be able to pick up the phone and say hey tom what do you think about this or i think that That obviously is is very important. I also think something that's really cool about what we've done, I mean, you know, I was 24 years old when I started the PPA tour. I'm only 29 now. um I think what's really cool is that a lot of these players that are here, like we've grown up doing this together.
00:04:15
Speaker
Like it really was very much a team effort. Like you look at our staff, we've got a lot of executives and people that are ranging from, you know, 25 to 35 years old. So the fact that we're kind of all doing this together, we're all kind of almost in life at the same time, you know, whether it be family, kids, when you graduated from college, life experience.
PPA Growth and Organizational Maturity
00:04:36
Speaker
So being able to have players that have been there from the very beginning and also the new players coming on the scene now, having them to be able to bounce ideas off of someone like a Ben Johns or Annalee Waters, or even someone like a Matt Wright, or even Zane Navratil. Zane and I spent some time talking about how we could make things better yesterday and talking about media and some other things. So I think all that all that stuff is very important. That's crazy to think about. that like I don't think people think about that. like Yes, Pickleball has been around since 1965, but the organization of the PPA, which is the largest organization that most of the sport is centered around as far as like the media, the players. and
00:05:15
Speaker
All the brands that are associated with it, it's only been five years. That five years that is a startup. Let's consider a startup. yeah And you think about how many things have happened over those five years and how much has changed and the start of MLP and the merger and Tom coming in. like I really feel like um this year, you know even the MLP PPA merger was only 150 days ago.
00:05:38
Speaker
You know, but I feel like right now we're finally getting to a spot where we're starting to be a little bit more matured as a business where instead of just looking at us and saying, hey, everything's a startup, we can be a little bit more process driven and ah be able to start thinking about what the future is going to look like.
00:05:54
Speaker
Damn, that's awesome. Yeah, that's yeah. Okay, that's super cool. Also this thing of like when you're talking about earlier is like you it's this kind of like typical entrepreneurship mindset. It's like fail fast and experiment and you just have to do that like this venues
Venue Experiments and Sponsor Promotion
00:06:09
Speaker
kind of an experiment. This is the first time it's been healthier. There's a three-year contract.
00:06:12
Speaker
And yeah, the great courts might not be ideal right now, but it's like, we have two more years. Like, and a lot can happen in pickleball years, like one years, like seven years. This is going to be an ad for my favorite sponsor, Viore. Right now they've released the dream knit. So they're getting ready for fall and winter. And they have a lot of awesome stuff that they recently released, just like new materials and new product lines.
00:06:34
Speaker
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00:06:56
Speaker
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00:07:26
Speaker
And the CFO love pickleball. They bought this hotel a little while back and the opportunity came to be able to run an event here. And so obviously it's something that we're not gonna say no to. I mean, what an experience to be able to be here in Las Vegas. These guys have spent you know millions of dollars to be able to provide an event that is awesome. Over a thousand amateur players, over 5,000 people buying tickets, all 200 of the best players in the world here. We're on Tennis Channel this week on Fox.
00:07:53
Speaker
Um, and if you look at the build out, it's like, it's something that we probably haven't seen before. Like it's pretty, it's pretty dang cool. If you're not here, everyone should check it out on YouTube, check out the Instagram, the behind the scenes, people following it. But you know, pickleball has never been played on top of carpet before. Yeah. So, you know, we ended up, uh, bringing in a bunch of staging and we, we know that it can get a lot better next year, but I still think that this year, you know, it was a huge success. Yeah, it's like that that phrase one step back two steps forward. Yeah Damn 29 years old What do you feel like the past five years has done to you personally? Relationship wise as far as your family and like the toll it might take on like your health because I'm always curious about entrepreneurship and how people are gained a little bit of weight, unfortunately.
Connor's Family Life and Work Balance
00:08:43
Speaker
You need to play more, man. Yeah, I need to play more. I think that's a great question. So the same year that I started the PPA tour, the way that I can know how old is the PPA tour is it was only a couple months after I had my first set of twins. So I have Grayson and Cannon. They're my first set of twins, boy, boy. They were born in October of 2019. Our first PPA event ever was February of 2020.
00:09:08
Speaker
um Yes. So ah some some what's really cool about the whole experience is a lot of the the players in that have been here from the beginning, they've watched my kids grow up as well. You know, they're now out on the pickleball court. We can hit the ball back and forth in a rally.
00:09:22
Speaker
but um you know like experience like Becoming a dad in the midst of growing a company like this, packing up, moving to Dallas, you know I think i it's been tricky. It's been tricky to balance that that life at home. you know like The reason I actually got into pickleball is because of my dad. and you know First and foremost, when I think about like what do I want to be remembered for at the end of the day, I want to be remembered as one heck of a husband and one heck of a dad, where my kids are like, you know what? i I'm so happy that was my dad. I'm lucky that that was my dad.
00:09:54
Speaker
And so, you know, that that has been really fun and unique and also challenging to do along with growing a business like this that started with eight of my friends and now we're up to 320 employees, all sorts of different companies now that are all rolled into pickleball ink pickleball central pickleball brackets.
00:10:13
Speaker
pickleball tournaments, you know working with Duper, the pickler. um But yeah, so I think that's been tricky to balance. And then what some people don't know is two years later, I actually had another set of twins. So another boy and a girl, Truman and Millie. And so at one point, you know we were running all of this. And I remember um right when I first did my deal with Tom is when Carly was pregnant and we were really close to um expecting our second set of twins.
00:10:41
Speaker
And so it was almost like when I think of my PPA life, there's almost been two lives. There was the life before Tom, and then there was the life after. But at the starting, at both of the journeys, there was a new set of twins to kick it off. Is there a third set, Colleen? No, no. i you know The other day I was sitting there, we were actually playing blackjack here with a few of the pro players. um I think it was ah Hunter Johnson, Roscoe, Anna Bright, and a few others. And I was like, you know what?
00:11:07
Speaker
I'll be 45 years old with my family out of the house. That'll be my third life. Right? So I think I've made the decision that it's time to go, you know, get the little snip. Yeah. Yeah. Call it quits. Yeah. You know, I mean, two sets of twins, like, yeah, we're going to do like a rapid fire. OK. First thought that comes to mind.
Quick-fire Pickleball Topics
00:11:28
Speaker
Rally scoring or side out? Side out. Tennis.
00:11:34
Speaker
Not as good as pickleball. MLP. The most electrifying format in pickleball. Vibe. Badass. APP. Feedertor. USAP. Incompetent. yeah UPA. The future. Damn, that was dope.
00:11:56
Speaker
This is like one of those things I feel like you've just learned in like five years is talking with you. Like, I didn't know you before you became an entrepreneur and took this on. So it's cool. Like, yeah, you're very, like, articulate, well spoken.
Overcoming Skepticism and Entrepreneurial Resilience
00:12:08
Speaker
Oh, thank you. Appreciate it.
00:12:10
Speaker
Something I think is always interesting in entrepreneurship is trying to get ah investors on board and sell an idea. so like how did you What was it like trying to sell the idea of pickleball to investors, sponsors, C-suite executives, and the thing you usually hear, which is like, it's not a spectator sport.
00:12:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. um One thing that I am so incredibly great grateful for, when you have something like Pickleball behind you, it does make it easier to sell. That doesn't mean that's how it used to be ah from the beginning. like When we first started, like if you actually really think about what did Pickleball look like in 2019, one, it it was hard to even sell myself to the endemic sponsors, the people that already believed in Pickleball. I remember my very first sponsorship ah negotiation or conversation I ever had was with Franklin.
00:13:00
Speaker
and I told them that I was starting the PPA tour and I got laughed at. right But it's it's funny, we know we're good friends now. I love Adam, i love I love Franklin, I love Chris, I love the guys over there. But one, you know it was hard to even start just in the endemic space. People thought, hey, this kid's 24 years old, he's not gonna be able to do this. How does this make sense?
00:13:17
Speaker
And so, you know, for me, it was just always about trying to be a little bit bigger and a little bit better each and every day. As pickleball started to grow, you know, um we quickly got all the endemic to say, hey, these guys, this is interesting. I think that these guys might actually have something happening here.
00:13:33
Speaker
And you know you started something where you started with zero sponsorship dollars. It was just an idea to where you got up to $3 million dollars of endemic sponsorships coming in. um And then it was time when Pickleball started to become more mainstream. like You feel grateful to be behind something where you have 40 million people playing.
00:13:49
Speaker
When you started, there was a lot of people that didn't know about it. So you were trying to sell the sport itself. Things got a lot easier when people said, I like pickleball. I enjoy pickleball. And we were able to say, well, this is how you can invest in pickleball. This is how you can be get behind the sport. So who are we the most grateful for? We're grateful for the game. The fact that the game is what it is and that everybody can play it, whether you're old, whether you're young, whether you want to play at the professional level, or if you're just looking for a hobby or something athletic to do.
00:14:16
Speaker
Selling pickleball really wasn't hard. I think it's more important for us to be able to sit to sell to people Why were the group that's gonna help make it grow? um You know show them that we're gonna work so much harder than everybody else. We're gonna wake up earlier. We're gonna work later We're willing to put the time and effort in and you're really selling yourself your vision your team And as long as you've got the right people behind you that are thinking the same way, you know, really this guy's the limit Yeah When you talked about trying to sell it early on and it was like tough, you probably got the door shut on you a few times and a common trade in entrepreneurs is like resilience. What do you believe in or like, how did you remain convinced that you'd be able to do what you're doing now back five years ago?
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, you know what? like um I never really looked at the PPA tour and said, this is what I wanted to be five years from now. I feel like every day that – and I feel like we're getting to that point now where we can actually sit down and we can have a plan and we can say, this is what it's going to look like. Here's our TPI. Here's what we need to do to be successful. Much like ah ah you know other entrepreneurs, we were in a spot where it's like every day there is so much opportunity and so much you can be choosing to spend your time on.
00:15:33
Speaker
How do you make sure you're choosing the right things to spend your actual time on so like we never let the lows you know There's tons of people that have said no or deals that I remember Our first million dollar deal we thought we had was with Hilton and the deal was done. It was on the one-yard line I remember reporting it telling everybody how great it was gonna be the deal never got done never ever got done But we we never let that you know get us down because there was always something else right around the corner Okay, okay, that's cool. What is the PPA's mission?
Professionalizing Pickleball and Partnerships
00:16:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think the PPA's mission is really trying to professionalize the sport of pickleball. When I think of the PPA tour and what do I want it to be, I want people to be able to equate it to the same way they look at what is the PGA to golf? What is the ATP to tennis? um But one thing that I never want to lose is I never want to lose that grassroots, Phil. I think something that's so unique about what we're doing is it's one of our taglines, play where the pros play.
00:16:29
Speaker
I'm going to do everything I can as long as I'm still here working to make sure that pickleball stays accessible. That pro players um are sure, do we want to help grow their brands? Do we want to help make ah them become celebrities? Do we want to help grow their following? Yes. And we're doing that every day. That's one of the things we're focused on.
00:16:49
Speaker
But we also want to continue the community. What makes Pickleball so special? It's the people. It's the lifestyle. it's It's changed so many people's life. It's changed my life. I'm sure it's changed your life. It's changed pro players' life. But it's changed everybody's life in such different ways. And the thought is, is like how do we always keep that going? And how do we keep how do we have this professional feel, but always have that community feel where you know it's we don't get bigger than the game itself?
00:17:15
Speaker
That's awesome, dude. I love the feeling of MLP where you're not like dealing with all the riffraff of like amateur players. I'm an a amateur probably myself, so I'm not like criticizing it. And it's great to just see the pros and know like where your attention can be focused. But I've also like realized that I feel like the thing that makes pickleball so great is because the players are, the pros are accessible is like, you can just run into them and they'll give you their time, like 30 seconds, like,
00:17:44
Speaker
i don't I don't think I can name a single person who can go up to LeBron James and talk with him for like 30 seconds. You can usually get a photo, but that's it. It's cool because it all traces back to the most synonymous word with pickleball, which is community. yeah um Why Vulcan?
00:18:01
Speaker
One, um it was a great sponsorship deal for us. First and foremost, I'm not gonna sit here and lie. like you're You're gonna be taking a chance on someone to go with with a company that had never created a ball before. um One, the number was way too big to pass up. It's a big, big number.
00:18:17
Speaker
um But number two Vince and the Vulcan team and dusty and Lucia They've always they have always done what they've said and they've always been a supporter of mine since they won So when we had the conversation and they promised me they would get the ball, right? I knew they would and they've kept their promise was it right the first time around? No, I think that the ball that's out right now is probably the best ball on the market in my opinion could the ball get better and Yeah, I think the ball could get better. I i definitely think they could get better. I think the Dura could get better. I think the Franklin could get better. um But the Vulcan ball right now, I think it's and think it's a great ball. um I do feel bad for them because any time there's a bad bounce or any time that, that you know, it's it's something easy to blame, something easy to fall back on. You don't lose a match. You're not playing as well as you used to play. um And, you know, we own a company called Jesch Courts Construction and we we build courts nationwide. We also build all the courts at the PPA tour events.
00:19:12
Speaker
And every court, not not every court is 100% perfect, especially when you're a traveling circus like us. yeah like I don't think people realize, like we're rolling into San Clemente, those guys only have eight pickleball courts. you know We're painting 40 pickleball courts that weekend, and then we're moving on to the next place. We're going to Atlanta here in a couple weeks, we're gonna paint 40 pickleball courts.
00:19:31
Speaker
And we're going to move on to the next place. And so it's not like we're going to these permanent venues. You can see what's happening here. um So a lot of the times, not always. Since this generation two ball has been out, the the first ball, it had its fair share of problems. yeah They addressed it. They fixed it. and um But ah yeah, this this new ball, it's it's really good.
00:19:50
Speaker
That's sweet. Oh, yeah. um Another controversial topic I would be great to get your insights on is why the rule change with qualities and signed pros. Will you clarify what the rule, what the rule change actually is? Yeah. Yeah. So if there's a signed pro and he plays with some, or he or she plays with someone that is not signed, they have to go through qualities. Is that correct?
00:20:13
Speaker
ah Not always, it depends on the point. So the way the way the process works to get into the main draw, maybe we can go through that. Yeah. on So criteria number one, and this is because our contract our contracts obligate us to do this. And it's one of the reasons that pro players signed with us in the beginning, you know, with four wars with everything going on. If we have two signed contracted players, they're going to be into the main draw. okay That's number one.
00:20:38
Speaker
Number two, what's the the second the second way for people to be able to get into the main draw? It is to have one signed player with a non-signed player. those That is the next qualification. um The third qualification, if there's still spots that are available, is that the teams with the most amount of points. Especially with everything that went on, we have to be loyal to the players that were loyal to us, the players that are putting this first, that are on contracts. It's important for us to have ah have them in the main draw.
00:21:04
Speaker
I mean, we're paying $32 million dollars to pro players this year. That's our annual payment to players. And we believe in those players and we think they're going to get better. And you might have someone like a Luke Wasson who doesn't have a ton of results right now, but we invested in him much like NBA teams or people take, you know, flyers on players that we think look at you look at Luke, he's tall, he's athletic, he has quick hands. He needs to work on a lot. And there's probably some players that played in the five o division that might actually be able to beat him.
00:21:31
Speaker
But we think Luke, he's young. We think that he could grow. We think that he could progress. And we want to make sure we're getting him as many opportunities as possible. yeah With that being said, we know that there is a gap with there's a lot of players that are really, really good pickleball players that are unsigned. And so for us, like what is the strategy to get those players signed? What is the way to be able to get them into the main draw? Those are conversations that we're having every single day.
00:21:54
Speaker
ah One thing that we will be announcing soon, and i'm I'm fine to say it here first, is we actually are going to be debuting the PPA Tour Challenger Tour next year. So we're going to have 26 stops. And to be able to play on the challenge, there'll be prize money at risk. And to be able to play on the Challenger Tour, one, you can't be on an MLP team. Number two, you can't have a top 25 ranking in any division.
00:22:18
Speaker
And so what we're going to do is we're going to use that at the end of the year. We're going to take three guys, three girls. We're going to offer them full PPA tour, MLP contracts. um We're also going to be using this to give wild cards into events. So you might have somebody like um Spartacus, who's out here playing singles right now. Great player. He was an All-American tennis player. He's in the round of 16. He upset someone yesterday. I forget who it was.
00:22:40
Speaker
This will give away for, you know, if he wins a challenger event or has a certain ranking and in his area, he can earn a wild card for the L.A. event. Right. So we're trying. We understand that this needs to be more accessible. And one, we need to make sure we define what does it mean to be a pro player? And two, how do I get there? how can i But I think we're well on our way.
00:22:57
Speaker
That's sweet. It's kind of like a small feeder to a degree. Yeah. Like our thought is, is like right now, um, you take a look at the APP tour. It's really served its way as a feeder for the most part. Like you look at people like a wheelhouse or a Mary Mari Humber. Those are players that we need to sign and we need to bring on to our tour.
00:23:17
Speaker
um You know, you look at someone like even a Jay de Villiers, a Pat Smith way back when, you know, they had a hard time winning on the PPA tour when they first started playing, but they went over there, they won a ton of matches, and that was years ago, but we knew, hey, we have to sign those players. The thought is now is we need that all in-house. We need them to come all through one program. We want to make sure that we're involved in the player's journey from the start all the way up to becoming a pro player, and that's hoping that's what we're hoping to do by the Challenger Tour.
00:23:44
Speaker
That's awesome. Damn. That's sweet. Jay won a big on the blackjack table yesterday. oh Too many heard him yelling that all day. he did Well, on that topic, what do you hope that the PPA tour looks like? Let's say like three years from now.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think ah one thing that we are very, very focused on right now is just trying to help tell the entire story of the PPA tour.
Storytelling and Community Engagement
00:24:13
Speaker
Why am I here? Why is this important why is this event important? Why is it different? Why should I care? Why does it matter? And so I'm hoping that the story becomes a lot more clear to people. Like, what what is a Grand Slam? you know What does a Grand Slam look like? Why do I know that this is such an important tournament for these players to be at?
00:24:31
Speaker
What is a cup like, you know, what is a cup? What does that mean? You know, and what is an open, you know, we have three different tiers right now. It's the slams, the cups, the opens. I want to be able to tell that story where right now it feels like it's another tournament. It's another week. It's another winner. And in three years from now, if that's still the answer, we really, we screwed something up. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I think it's very under well understood among the players, but like I don't I don't know the difference I know there's probably some points thing exactly and we want it to matter to you to where you're like, oh The Masters is going on this weekend These players are on all white and I want someone like the fact that you don't understand it. That means we're not doing our job, right? You're someone that actually cares about pickleball and We want to really focus on being able to tell that story. I would say that's number one. i Number two, and these are in no particular order, but another thing that's very important to us, we have 40 million people playing pickleball. We need more people to care about you know who is Tyson McGuffin, who is Kate Fahey, who is Ben Johns, who is Anna Lee, and that's important to us. we're trying We're thinking about those 40 million people. How do we get them to watch more? How do we get them to care more?
00:25:39
Speaker
How do we get them to um want to be involved in the pro pickleball infrastructure and community we're trying to build? Thoughts on... Alright, so we're gonna get to PEDs, line calls, and paddle testing. Here we got started. All the hard stuff's coming. Got all the easy stuff.
00:25:59
Speaker
Paddle testing, like what are your thoughts on it? And I see that you guys are trying to find a way to regulate, which makes sense, right? um Yeah, it's gotta be difficult to deal with.
Fair Play and Integrity in Sport
00:26:10
Speaker
You know, definitely. um So we recently hired ah Jason Aspis, used to be over at the kitchen, a great, great guy. Honestly, my ah my number one complaint on him would be he cares more about pickleball than our company, which which I think is a perfect person to put in a position like that. you know um And so really what we're focused on is, gosh, this last two years, talk about controversy with paddle testing. you know A new brand like us, again, we're five years old.
00:26:39
Speaker
um you know we The hope always originally was, can we lean on USA Pickleball to make that stamp and make that certification mean something? How do we let players, manufacturers, fans, and everyone have confidence on the court to say everyone's playing this within the same legal limits? and Unfortunately, we tried for a couple of years. USA Pickleball used to be out at every at every event. They tried to test.
00:27:04
Speaker
um And the gap was just too big for the confidence level for both manufacturers and both for players And we have gambling coming into the sport as well and it's continuing to grow a lot of people have gambled on pickleball this year a lot of people say hey when is gambling in a start like no gamblings going and it's up and it's going and it's it's growing fast and just like everything in pickleball, but when we look at um paddle testing and where we're trying to take it is The problem is is when you have 2,000 different paddle manufacturers that are all getting approval, it's very hard for one very small group to be able to actually govern the entire integrity. and so Really where we started, we we formed a company called UPAA. The hope of that is to make sure all players feel like, hey, I'm going out there and I'm playing on an equal playing field. And the first and most important thing that we and we decided to do this last November. And the first and most important thing is making sure that we're actually testing something that actually matters. So the very first thing that we've done is we have engaged with the lab and we're focused on dynamic testing. And what I mean by dynamic testing is what can the paddle do to the ball?
00:28:19
Speaker
One is there's really two things that matter the most. There's three things that matter, but two things matter the most. One is how fast does the ball come off my paddle? And number two is how much can I make that ball spin with my paddle? How many times can it spin? And so we now have the testing and allow millions of dollars of equipment to be able to test those two things. So now we have to put the rules in place. Those things are not going to be able to travel to events.
00:28:47
Speaker
So now what we're trying to do is paddles come in, they get tested, they get approved. How do we make sure that that paddle is the same paddle that's being used in play? And how can we have integrity through challenge process, static on-site testing that equates to variables that we're testing? But really where we got is like in order for us to get it to the point where we want it to be, we have to do it all in-house. We're going to have to do it ourselves. Right now, the way that we're looking at the sport, power, it's got to come down a little bit. Spin.
00:29:16
Speaker
If it was my preference, it would stay the same. I would say that most people think that that also should come down just a smidge. um What we don't want to get to is to where Pickleball was four years ago, where every point we were just pushing and dinking. Not ideal. Not ideal for sponsors, not ideal for TV. But right now, we're also getting to a point where people feel like they have to over-dink because they're so scared for the counter, the counter coming back.
00:29:41
Speaker
So if I was the one making all the decisions, which I'm not, my my preference would be power come down, spin stay about the same. I want to incentivize the speed up. I want to incentivize um taking balls that are a little bit lower and trying to be a little bit more aggressive. um But right now we have a ah paddle committee, advisory committee. We have a pro player committee. And then we have the UPA board. And between all three of those things, that's where the line is going to be set. We expect that line to be set in October.
00:30:07
Speaker
And then this will only govern ProPlay, but starting ProPlay in January, um there will be new rules and new specifications that everybody's playing by. How will it affect amateur players then? Like if one paddles pass through the UPA and then they happen to play like a local event?
00:30:24
Speaker
So um the UPA paddles, you'll be able to play with at the amateur level here, but we will also be letting amateurs participate with a USAP approved paddle as well. Oh, sweet. Yes. If you're an amateur, you can have, it could either be a UPA approved paddle or a USAP approved paddle. cool At the pro level, only the UPA. a I'm pretty ignorant and naive to sports organizations and how testing can sometimes be done. like The only organization I'm familiar with is like the UFC. ufc used The uses the Nevada State Athletic Commission. And then for dope testing, they use USADA, which was the same organization that did like the Olympics PED testing. So is there a conflict of interest when you do it in-house? As far as the? um Like UPA? Look, is there some kind of?
00:31:13
Speaker
Look, because there's some kind of conflict of interest. You know, maybe you could say that. Sure. um Where we're at right now is we have to get it right with the UPAA. If we say, hey, what is what is the UPAA going to be in a year from now? My hope is that we're going to take that and we're going to push it off and it's going to sit as a 100% nonprofit.
00:31:33
Speaker
The problem with making it a nonprofit today it would take a lot of capital and it would limit the resource that we're able to use from our other companies. Again, we're close to 300 total employees. um We need to be able to use our marketing team to stand up a website. I need to be able to use our finance team to be able to run the finances.
00:31:49
Speaker
I need to be able to use you know other various individuals that are inside the company to be able to help and stand this business up, get it self-sustaining. And once that's there, we'll go ahead and we'll push it off and we'll have it be a nonprofit. We're not looking to make any matter any money from the specifications here. yeah well I'm not going to do things inefficiently.
00:32:06
Speaker
We're not going to just say, hey, we're going to put a million dollars into a company and go start it all by yourself. Why? We have all the resource. We have the finance. We have the marketing. We have the you know backing of all of our other employees. Let's stand it up. Let's get it right. Let's get it self-sustaining. And then let's push it off. like Not one UPA board member is saying, I want to make money off of UPA. we want to like All we're trying to do is create fair pickleball. Yeah. And some people may believe it. Some people may not. Yeah. But if you, if anyone was in my shoes and was able to get the feedback from both manufacturers and players, the only thing that you want to do is to try to look, are you going to stop all the complaining? No. But if we can take that to a level where it's manageable and where people are confident in the process, that's what we're trying to achieve. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, only time will tell. What do you see as pivotal for the growth of the sport at this moment in
Media Growth and Legacy in Pickleball
00:32:54
Speaker
time? What's pivotal for the sport? I think, um,
00:32:59
Speaker
A TV deal is probably our next big thing we're eyeing. We're doing really great in attendance. We're doing great in ticket sales. We're doing great in sponsorship. you know We'll do about $30 million dollars this year in just sponsorship between PPA, MLP.
00:33:15
Speaker
So it's well on its way. ah What we're really going to be focused on is how do we get something that's more concise for a media deal? Media rights deal is going to be important too. like My goal is I want to be able to run a company that is profitable and does well without the TV deal.
00:33:32
Speaker
But if we get that TV deal, which I think we're all going to get, that's where it's going to become a really lucrative investment. And it's going to be a really great thing for, one, players, because salaries are going to skyrocket, and two, also our investors. So I think that that's something that's very important for us um at the at the pro level.
00:33:48
Speaker
But you know what also is pivotal for pickleball I think for pickleball to just keep being pickleball It's not gonna slow down like I'm just grateful to be a part of it I think a lot of different entrepreneurs and you've been able to interview a lot of different people We're all riding this wave this pickleball wave and I'll tell you right now No matter what I do no matter what you do No matter what a bunch of people do the sport is gonna continue to grow because it's just awesome the sports incredible and what it can do for people and the amount of people that can play it, and how addicting of it is and the fact that it's just one of the best games ever invented. And so I think, uh, you know, just trying to hone in that growth and trying to make right decisions. Yeah. What impact do you want to leave on the sport of pickleball?
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah, you know i'm a I'm hoping at the end of the day, i something about me is i I really don't care too much about what people think about me except for a few select people. you know So like a legacy and that type of stuff isn't as important to me.
00:34:49
Speaker
But it would be great to be able to look back one day and be able to look at the PPA tour and everybody that works for us and everybody that's grown this from the very beginning. What I'm very fortunate is I'm surrounded by such an amazing team and they all care as much as I care. And I want people to be able to look back at and say, I'm so glad that that tour started. I'm so glad all that hard work that got put in because look at how great Pickleball is, look how big it is, look how much exposure it is.
00:35:15
Speaker
And I think it's more, I hope that people can look back and look at the PPA tour and also look at Major League Pickleball and say, look at all the jobs that this created, look at all the opportunities that this created, and you know hopefully it's something fun that everybody can enjoy. At the end of the day, it's Pickleball. I hope that everybody can find a way to enjoy it and be able to have fun you know watching the best players in the world. you know They're pretty dang good. And so finding a way to have enjoyment through that, you know life's crazy. like It's one of the reasons I like playing pickleball. I like playing rec basketball. Why I like watching sports is it gives you that time where you can just focus on that one thing and nothing else. And I'm hoping that we can help continue to provide that for people. Yeah, for sure. What advice would you have for entrepreneurs?
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think one one piece of advice that I would have is if you have an idea that you believe in, to to I guess not let other people tell you no. Don't let other people tell you that you can't do it.
00:36:20
Speaker
um I think that that's something that I'm obviously ah ah super grateful for when I think about the PPA tour and what we've done is we've never let anyone really tell us no. If we heard how many people told us you can't do that, this is crazy. The sport's never gonna translate to TV. You're never gonna be able to make this a business. One of my really good friends is Matt Wright, and I remember having, after Mesa, talking to Matt Wright, and he'll tell you he's wrong now, by the way, so someone should go and talk to him.
00:36:48
Speaker
but i After our our very first tournament in Mesa, I remember talking to Matt Wright and he goes, this is it. This is the ceiling. This is where pickleball is going to be capped out at. And I remember going home that night and and talking to my wife and going, do you think this guy's right? Like this guy's smart. This guy's an attorney at Coke. Like, do we, do you think we're capped? Like, and I remember my wife saying like,
00:37:15
Speaker
I don't know. It's, it's whatever. What do you think? And I think, you know, never let anybody else tell, you know, if you believe that, if if you believe it's something that can be successful, go work as hard as you can. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to mess up. But each and every day, if you try to try your very best and try to be a little bit bigger, a little bit better, I think you're going to succeed. That's great. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you want to talk about?
00:37:38
Speaker
No, I don't think so. I just, I'm excited to be on this. I'm a big fan of yours. I love watching all these. Thank you, man. Nah, man. Thank you. You're, I know you're a super busy guy and you got a lot going on and this was totally unexpected and just getting to know you was super, super cool, man. I feel very, very fortunate and grateful. And I mean, it's, it'd be an understatement to say that the sport is also like very grateful to have you. Yeah. Thank you very much, man. you know Thank you. Thanks for all that you're doing. It's been but and fun to watch. I just hope that we can get more content creators to ah develop the skills and be able to produce content at the value you do it. I mean, it's a different level. So we appreciate it. ah Thank you. Yeah, hopefully we can continue. Hopefully we can continue to grow the sport with you guys. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. do fine Thanks, guys.