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Most Controversial Player? The Story of Zane Navratil
690 Plays1 year ago
Latest podcast episode with champion pickleball player Zane Navratil. Learn his winning strategies, training routines, and life off the court. Discover his thoughts on the PPA & MLP merger, content creation, and more.
#pickleball
Zane's social links:
Zane's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zanenavratilpickleball/ Zane's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ZaneNavratilPickleball
Zane's website: https://zanenavratilpickleball.com/
**please excuse the technical difficulty. To all the viewers, I apologize for this mishap.**
Chapters
00:00 intro trailer
02:04 pre-live
06:54 beginning
08:09 losing to Riley & Thomas 2 days straight
10:07 winning strategy with Erik Lange
13:34 ppa mlp merger
19:20 MLP titles and experience
21:43 zane's youtube videos
22:16 zane's most popular video
29:28 most heated matches
31:27 what makes a championship mlp team
37:10 zane's daily to-do checklist
39:48 zane's morning routine
46:58 managing his business
49:46 family
54:44 moving to austin
57:25 zane's practice partner list
01:02:20 zane's wikipedia page
01:06:31 tips on turning pro
01:11:20 how does he generate ideas
01:19:56 his relationship with proxr
01:26:31 vulcan ball, progressive draws, serve rule
01:32:41 pickleball and its rules
01:42:44 alzheimers non-profit
01:53:43 closing
#pickleball #podcast
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Transcript
Pickleball League Merger Discussion
00:00:03
Speaker
I think most of the players at this point just want to play pickleball and know what's happening, whether they are or aren't merging. The largest payout ever in pickleball at that point.
Competitive Matches and Strategies
00:00:13
Speaker
They almost swept us 3-0, but we came all the way back and beat him in a dream breaker. I think I hit a winner on Riley and I got it down low on him and James yells out. And like if I'm being smart about it, I probably shouldn't, but like sometimes you just got a dunk on a Karen.
00:00:29
Speaker
I think we gotta start, like, miking up some of the practice sessions or something, like, for sure. You want me to read you the list of people? I would say if there's advice that I have for players, it would be experimenting with new stuff. So yeah, we'll have a new line at some point in 2024. It sucks.
00:00:49
Speaker
controversial, innovator, shit talker. What words would you use to describe Zane Navratil?
Player Personal Stories and Insights
00:00:57
Speaker
One of the most interesting aspects for me in these conversations with these players is the chance to hear these backstories from their perspective.
00:01:05
Speaker
especially championship matches like winning MLP titles, which Zayn has 3 of. What goes through their mind? What's said behind the scenes? Who is behind the person we see on the court? Find out in this episode with Zayn Navratil.
00:01:22
Speaker
Real quick, I just want to say something regarding this video. First off, I just want to say thank you for clicking on this video and giving me the chance to share with you what Zane and I created. I just want to give you a heads up that during the filming of this podcast, I experienced some camera issues. Thankfully, between the two cameras is the one that's pointed at me that had the issues. So the one point at Zane is perfectly crystal clear. Everything looks good. The audio on both sides is great. It's just that the camera that was pointed at me
00:01:49
Speaker
just got out of focus in and out throughout this video. Again, thank you for being patient and understanding. Without further ado, my guest, Zane Navratil.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting too. Cause my mom is Indian and my dad's white and like me and my dad are, had that just like friends relationship. And then my mom was like the more of like the discipline area and like Asian like parent. I think there are, there are, there are, you know, there are plenty of differences, but there are some similarities between, you know, uh, like different types of Asian, like the
00:02:30
Speaker
I think the parenting is, is somewhat similar between Asian cultures. Like, um, yeah. That's so funny. Like disciplinarian for sure. Is your mom like straight for, does she come from India? So she's, is that first generation? Yeah. So yeah, she, she came over when I think she was like 23 or something like that.
00:02:53
Speaker
Oh, damn. So she's like cultured, like has an accent. She can probably cook the food real well. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. She's got a, she's got a little bit of an accent. She's been here for, you know, since probably the late eighties, early nineties.
00:03:09
Speaker
Um, and you know, they speak, they speak English and in India. So like she knows the language really well, but there's still a little bit of the, the Indian accent. And it's funny when she talks to her family on the phone, then it just goes like straight up who accent, like she'll be speaking English, but, and she doesn't, she doesn't have very much of an accent, but then she'll be talking to them and she'd be like,
00:03:32
Speaker
Oh, Zenner had the very best marks in school today. Like, it just comes back out. You want any of these? I'm all good. Thanks, dude. Jack and he probably tore him up. This is weird. This is crazy.
Pickleball Practice Evolution
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah. I think I've told you before, but I remember just watching your videos on YouTube, like, yeah, I guess like three years ago, you Sancola, that Asian guy with the glasses.
00:03:59
Speaker
Asian guy with the glasses. Yeah, it was when you guys were, I think you were in like Minnesota. Oh, Jerry. Jerry. Yeah. Does he, does he like play competitively on a high level? He does. Uh, I mean, he really only plays around like the Midwest area. So yeah, that guy's cool. Yeah. He was solid. And I remember that like before people even knew about Coop, like she was in those videos too.
00:04:22
Speaker
Oh yeah. I remember those ones. Yeah, we would always have some good highlight points back in the day. Altaf would drive in, we'd play with like the Badger. Yeah. Those were sick. We would watch those videos and just be like, oh man, like pick a part like this and that. And it was cool because
00:04:41
Speaker
it was like indoor facilities weren't really a thing especially like dedicated facilities like three years ago which is kind of crazy to say and you guys had like your own little like it looked like a bunker and you're like where the is this no one knew where it was yeah that was Cincola's lab
00:04:57
Speaker
Back in the day, his mother-in-law rented it out and they put in a pickleball court. It was in the middle of this office park in Crystal Lake, Illinois. And I would drive an hour and a half each way to go over and play. I put on some serious miles on my car back then.
00:05:15
Speaker
God damn. Yeah, dude. Those would be like Seven hour round trips. I'd I'd I would drive an hour and a half go play for four hours drive an hour and a half back. It was brutal
00:05:30
Speaker
Damn. Got to do what you got to do. That's so, those stories are so cool though. When you're like early on in your career, like you do, like you are like just grinding away and doing that. Not that you aren't grinding away now, but I guess like the grind was like more tedious and like you had to do things like that, like drive an hour and a half one way. Damn.
00:05:50
Speaker
Dude, that wasn't even the worst of the grinding. That was when I went full-time. Before that, I was at Deloitte and I was working from 7.30 in the morning till about 7.30 at night because it was our busy season. In order to get pickleball practice in, me and Kyle Slinko, the guy who runs Boxcar Productions,
00:06:14
Speaker
we would go practice at the YMCA from 5.30 to seven every single morning, and then I would go work 12 hours and come back, get home at like 8.30, because it was like 45 minutes away. And we would go, we would play with a Franklin ball on a gym floor, just the two of us. And that was like, that was the absolute worst, but we made it happen. Looking back at that, I'm like, damn.
00:06:44
Speaker
I hate playing on those like basketball floors. It's terrible. Yeah. Well, beggars can't be choosers. It's better than not playing any pickleball at all. I suppose.
Spotlight on Zane Navratil
00:06:54
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Building Pickleball. I'm your host, Brian Lim. Thank you to my sponsor, Viore. My guest today is Zane Navratil. Zane turned pro in 2020. Has over 100 medals. One holds three MLP titles. Has had two signature paddles. Zane, welcome to the show, man.
00:07:15
Speaker
What's going on, dude? I didn't know you were sponsored by Viori too. Yeah. I'll take off this. So I'll take off the squeeze sweatshirt. That's a dope sweatshirt though. Thank you. They, I love it. I love myself some, some crew necks, but I got the Viori pants on. I got the Viori shirt on. This wasn't even planned. I just always wear it. They're sponsor of the, uh, of the pickle pod too. Hell yeah. When'd you guys, how long have you guys been sponsored by them? Um,
00:07:44
Speaker
probably at least nine months or so, I would guess, but it was easy. I just like wore all the same stuff. I pretty much always wear. So yeah, it's like a no brainer. Um, is that the strato tech tee? You lost me there. I don't know. They all feel great. I don't know. I don't know the technical terms, you know, but, uh, it's, it's good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their stuff is awesome.
00:08:09
Speaker
What have you been up to recently? Okay. Actually there was, I was at the Paula Flamingo classic tournament. I forgot who I was talking to, but they had met, they were talking about like the pickle pod and when, um, Riley was in town and then Riley and Thomas were playing with someone at the lab against someone. They went undefeated against this other team. Were you on the other team? Yeah.
00:08:32
Speaker
So yeah, Riley and Riley came to Austin. This is probably only like a week and a half ago. He came to Austin to get some reps with Thomas. And we also, we filmed the pickle pod because he was announcing his Pro XR deal. And me and, me and Deckel played against Riley and Thomas for two days straight. We probably played like seven or eight games each day. And me and Deckel lost every single one. And we were like, damn.
00:08:59
Speaker
Dude, this is the team that's going to beat, that's going to beat Ben and Colin. Like they were playing unbelievably together. So yeah, unfortunately that was, that was me and, and Deckel. But since Deckel's not here, I'm going to go ahead and say that Deckel was the problem because this past weekend, me and Eric Lang beat Riley and Thomas two out of three. So Deckel's the problem.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. And I made no hesitation as soon as we won that match, as soon as I saw Deckle the next time, I let him know that he was the problem in that match.
00:09:36
Speaker
That's so funny. Yeah, dude. Uh, desert rich. That was sweet. See you and Eric Lane get third. I mean, first would have been nice, but yeah, well, we'll take it. It's been a while since I've been on the metal stand. And I don't think, uh, I don't think Eric's ever actually been on a PPA metal stand. So, uh, he played unbelievably. Uh, I think we, you know, we deserved it. We took out some good teams and, um,
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, dude, Eric's a beast. He's playing unbelievably since he quit his job. So yeah, that's like the secret ingredient.
High-Risk Strategies and Player Performance
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, I've, I always thought Eric was like super good. I was like wondering why before you and yeah, even before you, I don't know who he was partnering up with in men, like in men's doubles, but I was just like,
00:10:22
Speaker
Why isn't this guy getting better partners? I thought at MLP, I think they just didn't play as much together like him and Ben. So there's some miscommunication. But overall, as a player, his shots, his instincts, his hands, super, super good. And it was proven in the match. The match I saw that you guys did in this past weekend was against Christian and Julian. That was dope. Dude, you were hitting some clean attacks.
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah, we decided we weren't going to dink a whole lot. We just decided, you know what? We're going to rip some serves. We're going to rip some thirds. We're going to rip pretty much every other shot, too. And when it works, it works. It's high risk, high reward. And I do think with the new ball, you can get so much more spin. I think that the game is speeding up, even in men's doubles. Oh, really?
00:11:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think the first game against, uh, Christian and Julian, you guys want to let you guys win 11. Oh, we won 11 one. Um, yeah, that was like a five minute game tops. The next game was 13 11 and that was probably a 10 10 minute game. Like it still was, it was a close game, but just a lot of scoring on serve and not a lot of tremendously long points. Yeah.
00:11:46
Speaker
Damn. That's sweet. What, um, and then like who knocked you guys out? We lost to, uh, decal and Tyson in the, in the semi-finals. Oh, damn. That was a fun, that was a fun match too. Lots of body bags in that one. Really? Oh, I missed it. I'll have to look back and watch those.
00:12:05
Speaker
That's an entertaining one to watch. Eric tagged Deckel like four times. Tyson was shooting a bunch of them like Eric. Deckel got, uh, Eric once I managed to not get hit the entire time. Small guy. Again, again, it was his fault that Riley and, uh, Thomas beach all.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'll go on the record. Now you're going to get deckle as your next podcast guest. I know it and be like, Zane said this, like, yeah, that's fine. See, I just own it and I'll say it to his face too. So this is what I'm doing. I'm trying to create like some tension. Yeah. Create some beef. Um, did you guys use the same game plan against deckle and Tyson?
00:12:46
Speaker
Pretty much. There were like, you know, there were some strategy changes, right? Like, you know, we didn't really want to get into a long cross court dinking pattern with Tyson.
00:13:02
Speaker
You know, we had, we had different places that we were looking to attack, but the main strategy was the same, which is we're going to rip third shots. We're going to rip serves and we're going to play aggressive. Yeah, it worked out perfect for y'all. You guys plan to play anymore together?
00:13:18
Speaker
We should. There's still a lot of confusion up in the air about MLP, PPA stuff, but if the merger happens, which it's looking like it might, I think Eric and I are definitely going to try and find some more together.
00:13:34
Speaker
What are the players ultimately like, what's the consensus that they want? Do they want the merger to happen or not?
Major League Pickleball Challenges
00:13:40
Speaker
I think most of the players at this point just want to play pickleball and know what's happening, whether it is or whether they are or aren't merging. I think they just want certainty. It's kind of like the markets, right? Markets can react to good news, markets can react to bad news. Uncertainty actually moves the markets more than anything.
00:14:00
Speaker
Right now, we have a state of uncertainty. People don't know what to schedule. People don't know what their pay is going to look like. You know, I think no news is scarier than bad news. You signed with MLP though, right? I did. Yep, yep. I signed back in whatever that was, August.
00:14:21
Speaker
Speaking of that, I remember, okay. So I looked at your Twitter and on August 28th, 2023, Connor Pardo tweeted about their money being in the bank and over 5 million of it upfront money was going out. And you replied, I'll let you know when the money you guys owe me hits the bank account has the money from the PPA hit your bank account yet.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, we got that figured out. Okay. It was, it took some, some back and forth, but we ended up getting that figured out. Hell yeah. So got paid. That's good. We'll take it. Yeah. Do they have any like MLP events scheduled for this year?
00:15:03
Speaker
There are a bunch of them on the calendar, but I don't think they can really effectively run a Major League Pickleball event for probably a couple maybe months after a merge. Like, you need a little bit of a...
00:15:19
Speaker
you need a little bit of preparation time to run one of these events like well. Like is there any chance that vibe would come back? I'm assuming if the merger doesn't happen, like the day that the merger doesn't happen is the day that vibe is again announced. Um, that's, you know, that's their basically counter to, uh, MLP. Do you think the MLP is going to like get to that point? Like how,
00:15:46
Speaker
Like I feel like the problem or like the main issue with that people had with Kuhn was that he couldn't figure out how to generate revenue from MLP aside from like teams and like ownership changing. Like have you looked at that at all? Well, I mean, I don't necessarily, that's true, but I feel like they're not full in context, right? Like MLP so far has hosted.
00:16:17
Speaker
like not even 10 events, right? They did one in November of 2021. They did three in 2022. They did five and a half in 2023. So what does that mean? That puts us at nine, right? Nine and a half.
00:16:33
Speaker
So yeah, no, they didn't have very many revenue streams, but it's still very much like a startup. And the model was to move the teams to their regions, right? Like I was on the Orlando squeeze and have actual sort of home in a way matches and allow the teams to sort of promote Major League Pickleball in their local areas.
00:17:01
Speaker
So I think it's it's a startup like I think the idea is is sound Do they have any revenue not really um, but you know
00:17:15
Speaker
You can always go back to the fact that if it's a good idea and there's a desire to invest in it, which there was, profits, I'm not gonna say don't matter, but there are different metrics of success that you're going to use. A perfect example is I think Amazon turned their first quarterly profit ever in 2019. Even by that time, it was one of the most valuable companies in the entire world and it had never been profitable.
00:17:44
Speaker
because it was just growing and acquiring market share and people knew that it was gonna be a very legit company, right?
00:17:55
Speaker
It's interesting. You mentioned that. I think Uber just posted their, um, their earnings report and they just were profitable for the first time since like 2019. Really since pre pandemic. Interesting. I think so. I hope they're profitable now. They're so much more expensive than they used to be. Are they? Yeah. Seems like it. I own, I own Uber shares. So, okay. There we go. Yeah.
00:18:20
Speaker
Congrats. I mean like more expensive, not the shares, but just the rides.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting. But they got us hooked. At one point they're going to have like those flying. Do you remember those? It's like call like Uber air and they had like four propellers facing down and it was like this like air taxi. Oh no. I don't remember that. Oh, they had like concepts and they had it like in one of the museums in DC and this just, I just don't understand how that was ever going to be prop practical. I guess like now, but.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah, who knows? Sounds kind of, I mean, it sounds cool, but it seems like they should let somebody else do that test and then just like, like they didn't invent the car, right? To use for Uber. They just let people use their own cars. So it seems like it was a slight departure from their, from their model to start like trying to invent something completely new. Speaking of MLP, you got your second.
00:19:25
Speaker
We have three MLP titles. Is it one or two with BLQK? We did two with BLQK and got one with the squeeze this year. Which one was like the most satisfying one?
00:19:37
Speaker
I mean, the first one was awesome, right? Because it was the largest payout ever in Pickleball at that point. I remember it was here in Austin. It was at Dreamland.
Memorable Wins and Matches
00:19:53
Speaker
It was at night. The atmosphere was awesome. So the first time, I feel like there's always something special about it. But then this year in Atlanta,
00:20:06
Speaker
was pretty special as well because you know in the first half of the year I was on the Frisco Pandas and we didn't win a single match the entire time and so to be able to sort of rebound and go back and win was awesome because again the crowd in Atlanta was unbelievable
00:20:25
Speaker
We were actually down two games to zero and they had multiple match points to finish the match. They were, they almost swept us three zero, but we came all the way back and beat him in a dream breaker to take that win. And then also, you know, this year, everybody was playing right in 2022. It was just the MLP players this year, you know, Ben and elite.
00:20:49
Speaker
Riley, all of the top players were, were playing. So to get that, that win and MLP under those circumstances is was, was sweet as well. I didn't even put that into like consideration. So the one in 2022, is that the one that Chris and Will filmed?
00:21:05
Speaker
Uh, they filmed the second one that we won. So we, we, we won in Austin and we won in, in Columbus. And yeah, they, uh, they came over and they filmed a bunch of like the preparation going into it and stuff. Did a pretty cool little documentary. Um, which turned out well. And, uh, yeah, they put in some work. Yeah, dude, that documentary is awesome. This is like probably like the 20th time I've talked about it because I'm just like.
00:21:32
Speaker
that document is so cool, but then you look at the view count and you're like more, maybe more people just don't know it exists because like when you watch it, you're like, Oh, this is awesome. This like is capturing the moment so well for sure. They did such a good job and yeah, it didn't like perform. We were just talking about YouTube before we even got on here. It's like,
00:21:52
Speaker
no idea what people are gonna actually sort of want to watch. You always think like oh dude this is gonna be sick and then it gets like no views or you throw out some shitter video and it goes like viral and it's the one that just randomly crushes. It is always the opposite of what you think it's gonna be. You have two videos I was like watching I was looking at your channel before this you have like one the
00:22:16
Speaker
the one with the highest views is like 200 something thousand views that is that the one about the serve weaponizer serve yep yep the second one is oh that one's about returning the serve which is interesting did you think either of those were really gonna be like
00:22:34
Speaker
we're gonna pop off.
Content Creation and Social Media
00:22:35
Speaker
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00:22:53
Speaker
I've seen it quite a bit, not only on the courts, but just walking around here in Austin. You can usually recognize Viore on any of the shorts because it is that circular logo with a V on it. So if you want to get that discount, go to viore.com slash building pickleball. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but also free shipping on any orders of $75 or more, as well as free returns.
00:23:20
Speaker
I didn't think that the serve one was going to pop off, but yeah, that's the one that's got like 200,000 views on it. And it wasn't even any of my serve videos about like the chainsaw, right? Cause we did the chainsaw stuff in 2021 and 2022, but it was just a video called the newest way to weaponize your serve. And I was talking about how you want to make your opponent hit on multiple axes.
00:23:45
Speaker
where rather than just hitting it hard or hitting it deep, you want to have some loop to it was the essence of the video. And I was like, yeah, it's a fine video. I didn't think it was going to pop off like that. I did think that the return video was going to do well.
00:24:02
Speaker
because it's something that's contrary to common pickleball knowledge. Everybody thinks slice your returns, but with the current paddle technology, if you're slicing your returns at the pro level, you're gonna get absolutely eaten up. Because if you are slicing your returns, it's basically just giving your opponent
00:24:22
Speaker
topspin. When it comes off of my paddle, every revolution of slice that you're giving to me is a revolution that I can send back. Now, it's not actually a one to one ratio, but like, that's the logic. The more slice you give me, the more topspin I can hit back to you. And it is so contrary to like, pickleball for forever, or even tennis. In tennis, people know like, slice your return to come in because it keeps the ball low. Well,
00:24:51
Speaker
In tennis, you can take the ball, pocket it on your strings, and send it back, and wipe the spin-off. In pickleball, you can't. So, I did think that that one was gonna do well, and I think it's my second best performing video. And the comments are just phenomenal. It's just random old 3-0 dudes being like, I slice, and I have a lot of success. I'm like, I'm not talking to you, homie. It says pro pickleball players never slice.
00:25:20
Speaker
If you're slicing and it works, you can keep doing it. That's cool. But like, if it doesn't work, maybe this is why. So that was exactly what I was going to talk about. Next was like the comments because I love going into the comments section, especially on other people's videos. I don't like it necessarily on mine. I don't like it, but like I went into yours and I was like, what could people possibly be saying like negative about this? Like, and then I was reading like one guy, he had like the top comment and like 35 likes. He was like, it's exactly what you're talking about. I was like, Oh, well,
00:25:47
Speaker
at the level that I play at, this works perfect. And I was like, well, what are you aspiring to? If you know that you're trying to play against the best people or you want to be your best version, you know you're eventually gonna meet the people that will just return that with topspin. And it's just gonna dip that ball right over the net into their feet or just pass them and it's gonna land in. Do you read the comments on your videos?
00:26:17
Speaker
I usually skim them. I go through phases where I do reply to everything and then recently I've published so many videos it's hard to keep up with everything because people will be commenting on something from a year ago and it just continues to accelerate the amount of comments that I get. So I try to reply to people who leave thoughtful comments on the video.
00:26:43
Speaker
Um, so yeah, I skim them. Um, honestly, maybe I'm just a weirdo, but like I find the, I find like the negative comments more entertaining. I'm like, this guy really, really took the time out of his day to write up four paragraphs about how much of a dumb ass I am or something like that. I'm like, all right, dude. Like, so.
00:27:06
Speaker
I actually kind of find the negative comments pretty entertaining. Yeah, I think I might be a weirdo for that. It really doesn't bother me. Do you ever snap back at them? Yeah.
00:27:19
Speaker
And it's honestly more, it's not like an anger thing. It's like, uh, all right, you want to play, we'll play. Like I, I talk so much shit on the court and this is just my version of talking shit off the court. Right. So like, if somebody is going to call me like Dom or whatever, like that's fine, but like you started it, fair game. Let's go. You want to play, we'll play.
00:27:42
Speaker
I don't do it too much, and if I'm being smart about it, I probably shouldn't, but sometimes you just gotta dunk on a Karen.
00:27:54
Speaker
It's so awesome because like I've seen that recently like at the lab when I was like there to just like film Jack and then like all four of you guys was like using Cola Jack and Carlos just like the shit the shit talking that people don't know that happens during practice like it's so funny it changed it changed my view of y'all I was like oh these guys are so much cooler now
00:28:20
Speaker
I think we got to start like miking up some of the practice sessions or something like it's just it's fun like we're all such good buddies and we also know like sort of when to stop like we're not really like trying to be assholes out there like we're trying to have fun and if somebody is having a bad day like we're not gonna ride them like
00:28:40
Speaker
So like just today I was playing with or I was sitting out a game and like Jack and John were playing against Declan Carlos and for some reason I just decided that like I was gonna rag relentlessly on Jack.
00:28:59
Speaker
Which like Jack is such like an unbelievable friend like such a good dude and And so yeah, basically like every point I found a way to just make it Jack's fault every point that they lost and even points that they want I'd be like dude I was lucky or sinkola bailed you out or whatever. I was doing this for like five minutes straight and
00:29:21
Speaker
Yeah, it was fun. Got to keep yourself entertained. It pays off. It's like tough. It's like thickening his skin for sure. There we go. Perfect. Yeah. Honestly, I'm doing him a favor. You're right. Thank you. I need that justification. Honestly, he should Venmo you. 100%. I'll coach him up. That's mental toughness training right there.
00:29:44
Speaker
What was like you can kind of sometimes see like some of the on-court antics like during events what was like The most heated match that you've been in like was it against DC pickball team in the MLP like against Riley There's like some chirping there
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah, I would say that was probably one of the most intense.
Team Dynamics and Challenges
00:30:06
Speaker
I would almost classify heated differently like animosity, like maybe there was something chippy or like...
00:30:16
Speaker
Um, you know bad call or something. So I wouldn't say it was like necessarily heated I would say that it was intense and there was definitely like some some back and forth on that and like James Ignatowich and Jericho were just like yelling crazy stuff from the crowd like I think I I think I hit a winner on Riley and I got it down low on him and James yells out
00:30:40
Speaker
It's not too late to change your grip, Riley. And I think Riley said something like, I'm going to kick your ass or something like that. I'm going to see you in the parking lot afterwards. So that was Atlanta was definitely like the most intense, uh, the most intense match. I'm interested in like the team dynamic. I meant to ask this earlier, but like, since you've won three MLP titles, I guess like Irene has won like five.
00:31:05
Speaker
She won one She won the very first one. She won two last in 2022 cuz I was on her team I knew that one with mad drops and then yeah one with the mad drop. So she's at four I think four. Does anyone else have more than her? I don't think so. So you're at so she's at four you're at three like Ben might be at three and
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah. So that's like not many people who have like MLP titles is, is, have you thought about that? Like, is there like a formula that you think is a catalyst to a good team? Yeah. I mean, definitely. Like I think.
00:31:44
Speaker
having a group of people that have, you know, like all of us on the squeeze had played college tennis and we're good teammates, like Andre, Rachel, and Anna all played really high level tennis. I played very, very high level division three tennis at Wisconsin Whitewater.
00:32:03
Speaker
But like at the same time I learned good skills like we were intense we weren't like we weren't the best players in the country that's for sure but like we learned how to be really good teammates and and whatnot and so that goes a long way and I do think being a good teammate has a
00:32:21
Speaker
like a strong effect on your success when there's a group of four of you as opposed to just, you know, yourself out there in singles or you and your doubles partner. Like it's a skill and it is a tangible skill that I think affects your rating, essentially. Like I do think being a good teammate can boost the duper level of yourself and your teammates in Major League Pickwall.
00:32:51
Speaker
So we meshed well. There weren't any like crazy personalities that, you know, wanted it to be, you know, all about themselves. Like we were, we were a team. Um, we all cheer each other on like the styles meshed pretty well. And I think that's super important. Um, and just players who like, like energy, um, I think is, is huge in MLP. Whose fault was it on the first scope pandas then?
00:33:18
Speaker
Who's fault? Who do we have to blame? Well, I would say I mean, we can blame me, I suppose. I'm not a first round pick. So, yeah, I'm not a first round pick.
00:33:36
Speaker
So as Tim Parks has said, that was the the cardinal sin of the Frisco pandas was taking me in in the first round. And I would say that's that's probably accurate. I would have to agree. Damn. Yeah, that was.
00:33:52
Speaker
That was interesting, because DJ was the other male partner? For the last event, yeah. We had traded Matt, Matt Wright. So Matt was originally the second pick. And then we had Yana and Linna. Oh, OK. OK. Gotcha. Damn. Yeah, I don't really remember watching too much of that. Yeah, we weren't on very many streams.
00:34:20
Speaker
Our days ended Saturday at about 9 a.m. Damn. Oh, shit. That's awesome. You know what? That's the crazy thing is I still had fun on at MLP and those like you just bring it. You try your best. Like the matches are still close. Like the actual games themselves are close. Like we didn't put together three wins in any in any match. But like. You know, there weren't
00:34:50
Speaker
It wasn't like we were embarrassing ourselves out there, right? It's not like the, the Detroit Pistons or something like that. Although I guess you can say the Detroit Pistons have more wins than the Frisco pandas did. Detroit Pistons of pickleball. Uh, yeah, I imagine those events are pretty fun though. Cause it's like, just like as a spectator, they're great. Cause you don't have all the, like, all the antics of all like the amateur players and
00:35:17
Speaker
all the riff-raff going on is just like just the pros. And then you know exactly what you're like kind of watching. It's great. Yeah, and I think it's good because you can schedule matches. That's probably the biggest thing. Like when I go to a normal tournament, people ask me when I play, I'll say our bracket starts at 11 a.m. I don't know if they'll have a court for us at 11 a.m. I don't know which court it's gonna be at 11 a.m. And after that, I have no idea whatsoever.
00:35:43
Speaker
Um, so here you actually have matches scheduled. Like you can get people to show up. They know when to show up. And, um, I think that's, that's important for the player experience and for the fan experience. Yeah. Are you still playing any singles matches? Um, I will every now and then I am. I'm going to go for it. I'm thirsty. I need, I need some energy. I'm going to send it.
00:36:12
Speaker
This episode is brought to you by MTE. Hell yeah. It's not actually, but I just need some MTE. I partnered up with these guys almost a year ago, actually. And I'm definitely pretty into health and wellness. And a lot of these energy drinks and whatnot, they got a bunch of crap in them.
00:36:38
Speaker
so this is really just like this gives you energy without like hardly any caffeine actually there's a little bit of it in there i think it's sourced from like green tea leaves but it's got stuff like ashwagandha and like different types of functional mushrooms
Zane's Personal Growth and Routines
00:36:57
Speaker
and whatnot like it's sweet i like mushrooms
00:37:05
Speaker
What type of mushrooms are we talking about? We had talked about that briefly and what your like day looks like. And you had talked about how you have this list of every day, you have this list of 25 things to do. You wake up at five 30 in the morning. When did you start being like so regimented and then
00:37:30
Speaker
Where have you gotten like some of your inspiration of how to optimize your day? Well, first off, I would say like something that I've identified about myself is.
00:37:45
Speaker
I like improving and even in my pickleball game, improving is my north star. It's the most important thing to me and results are byproducts of that. Honestly, I have fun getting better at stuff.
00:38:04
Speaker
I think that's a good growth mindset for pickleball because it allows me to take pressure off of individual matches and rely on the systems that I put in place to improve in the long term. So that's sort of an overarching thing for me. I like to get better, I like to get more efficient in whatever it is that I do.
00:38:27
Speaker
A lot of these things are just things that I've started adding over years. I started waking up at the exact same time every day because I listened to this Andrew Huberman podcast, which he probably recommends getting a little bit more, maybe sleeping in a little bit more.
00:38:48
Speaker
But if you wake up at the same exact time, your body adjusts, right? So regardless of whether I go to bed at 7 p.m. or midnight, I feel pretty good when I wake up at the exact same time every day.
00:39:05
Speaker
You know when you wake up and the alarm like just totally jolts you and you're just so groggy and whatnot Like even if I am for whatever reason out till 1 a.m Which I'm never out till 1 a.m But if I were I'd still wake up naturally at like the same time because my body tells me to and I'll be not gonna lie I'm gonna be tired, but I'd more tired less tired than if like my alarm went off and
00:39:31
Speaker
So I wake up at the same time every day. Um, and then I have the L just a list of things that I try to get through on a, on a given day. And, um, a lot of that just came from, from trial and error and trying to get more and more efficient and make sure that I do certain things that I want to have done during the course of a day. When you wake up at five 30, do you wake up off the alarm or just naturally?
00:40:01
Speaker
I wake up off the alarm, but I'm sort of starting to stir a little bit. I also have my thermostat set. It's got automatic timers. I love it cold, so we sleep at 66. 66?
00:40:23
Speaker
Oh my God. You're supposed to sleep in cold. Yeah. Yeah. I'm at like 69. That's like, and I think it's cool. I see you. Yeah. But what temperature do you sleep at? Sorry. I'm actually like a 12 year old. I don't know how to follow that up. That was just good.
00:40:54
Speaker
Damn, okay. So, you know, I like it. I like it cold. So when like your thermostat changes, does it go back up when you're like ready to wake up? Yeah, so like I start to sort of like feel as the temperature rises, like somewhere in the back of my head as I'm sleeping and that sort of starts to like wake me up. So I don't have like a sun alarm or anything, which I think is pretty cool, but I wake up.
00:41:22
Speaker
to the alarm, but I'm like in Light sleep at that point. Yeah, that thing is like technically you could use it as like a sunlight It's just like a Philips hue light but you can set in like the app you can set an alarm for it Just like it's completely different from waking up to sound you like you just wake up to light and you're like it just feels way more natural and seamless and you're like
00:41:46
Speaker
What the fuck just happened? Why am I awake right now? You're like, oh, the light's on. And then it's so less jarring than when you wake up to a sound. But I guess now that some of those sounds can be progressive. It starts off slow, low, and then increases in volume. But yeah, the light has been interesting.
00:42:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're, I mean, like from what I've listened to and podcasts and whatnot, that's like kind of how we evolved to wake up is, is with light and whatnot. So I would definitely do that if I didn't wake up an hour and a half earlier than my fiance. So, um, I gotta keep it dark and quiet while, uh, while she's sleeping. Well, you're just not going to make it to practice. Like we won't ever hear from you again, probably.
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, we'd be in for a rough marriage. When are you guys getting married? Well, we're less than two months away. So what are we recording on? February 7th? February 7th. We're getting married March 30th. March 30th. Where are you all getting married? The Arlo. It's on the west side of Austin. As soon as I heard west side, I was like, oh, that's probably nice.
00:42:59
Speaker
It's nice. Yeah, it's very nice Yeah, we we didn't rush anything like we've been together since since high school high school. Yeah Yeah, this guy's traditional
00:43:14
Speaker
I don't know about that, but we've been together for 10 years, right? So we didn't want to rush and we wanted to have like a nice wedding and you know, we've been engaged now for like 18, 19 months. So we've had plenty of time to plan and everything. And yeah, I knew she wasn't.
00:43:35
Speaker
I knew she wasn't running away. She knew I wasn't running away. So yeah, but date's coming up soon and the nice part is we're prepared. So it's more like excitement than it is like anxiety and nerves.
00:43:48
Speaker
That's a good way to put it. That's, that's sweet. That's super cool. Um, yeah, dude, you don't get nervous if you're prepared for some stuff too. Like it's, it's like a Goggins mindset, right? Did you read his books, both his books? I read his, his second book. I'm reading his first book. Damn. That's so funny that you say that because when you're talking about your checklist, it reminded me of when he was, uh, talking back, talking about.
00:44:14
Speaker
his time with his grandpa, like Sergeant Jack. And his Sergeant Jack always gave them a checklist of things to do every day. So that reminded me of actually like when you were talking about your checklist, I was like, wow, this reminds me of Goggins. Interesting, that must have been his first book. I read Never Finished. Second one. Yeah, so I read the second one. Oh, this is that one? Yeah, yeah. Oh man, I'm a shitty reader. Maybe I have them mixed up.
00:44:42
Speaker
I don't remember the checklist. Was it when he was on like a farm or something or like working on a farm? With Sergeant Jack. Yeah. Okay. Now I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I haven't finished that one. It wasn't like, uh, as, I guess like, I wasn't as eager as like the first time. Like can't hurt me. Like, man, I finished that book like super quickly. It's like great book. Interesting. Yeah. I read, I read never finished first and I just like tore through that thing.
00:45:12
Speaker
Oh, really? And then... What's the first one called? Can't Hurt Me. Can't Hurt Me is... Oh, yeah, you got it over there. Yeah. It's like I haven't... I've been reading some other stuff before that. Yeah, that's dope. Yeah. He's a psycho. Everybody's got to have a little psycho in them to be like, great for sure. Have we seen your psycho?
00:45:37
Speaker
I think we're seeing my, my psycho in the behind the scenes with like the checklist and, and yeah, I think that's my, my psycho. What is it just like obsession?
00:45:48
Speaker
I think it's for me, like I've got these, you know, 20 some things that I have to do. And like, if I don't get those things done, it's like in my mind until I do. And then it's a way of, for me to basically like relax, like, okay, once I've gotten these things done, like I can do whatever the hell I want. But like until then, like it's going to be on my mind.
00:46:15
Speaker
How often do you go through the entire list? I get everything done that I say I'm going to get done pretty much every day. I try to be realistic about what I can get done on a given day.
00:46:32
Speaker
You know, the, I don't remember the last time I didn't get through my, like, my like sort of morning routine daily checklist thing. Yeah. Uh, damn, that's interesting. Cause it was just like, it'd piss me off if I didn't. What's the one thing that you dread doing on that door? Like that might take you the longest to do.
00:46:51
Speaker
I don't enjoy answering text messages. I get a shit ton of text messages. I prefer email. Yeah, it's just for me, it's easier. I can just I type it out on my computer and stuff. You know, I can have I can have my team help me out if there's something that that
00:47:08
Speaker
I can get off of my plate, basically, because I try to, I have my hands in a million different things, so I try to not do anything that I don't need to. I do a few things very well. I play pickleball, I create the content, and really, other than that, I want to punt to people who are better than me.
00:47:33
Speaker
Um, so I try and have my team help me with basically everything, everything else. Um, and I've got an awesome team that does help me with that stuff. So I have two who helps me with the most amount of stuff. So she does some like assistant type work, like calendar and, and whatever, uh, you know, travel and stuff.
00:47:55
Speaker
but she also does a ton of stuff on the business side, like she sits in on all of my calls and whatnot, and she's involved in just general strategy and whatnot. So I have two. I have Ariel Butler, who helps me out with clinics and whatnot, some of the admin there. I have Aurora, who runs the newsletter, which takes a decent chunk of time.
00:48:23
Speaker
I have Maddie who does my social media and now she's doing Cincolas, she does Ben's, she does Connor Garnett's. So she's awesome. I have Spencer Laurent who's helping me with YouTube stuff. So he films and edits everything. You know, hopefully we should be able to get three months of content in a single day of shooting. So we do it all pretty much at one time.
00:48:50
Speaker
And then I have my agent, my agency who helps me out with all the sponsorship stuff. So yeah, there's a lot going on and it's much more than I can do by myself. So I'm really, really lucky to have a good crew. Wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. I forgot, I forgot two people who are gonna be really pissed if I forgot them. My mom and dad ship out all my paddle sales.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah, they have a store in Racine, Wisconsin. It's called Dimples, named after my mom. And they sell unique clothing and jewelry. And so they have a big store, and I have like a 500 square foot apartment. So I keep all of my paddles and whatnot over at their place, and they ship them to people as they order them from my website. So I gotta shout them out too.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yeah, you can't forget about mom and dad. I can't forget about mom and dad.
00:49:47
Speaker
Your parents, I remember you were telling me that your dad used to play tournaments with him, and that was one of your most memorable events. And then I'm trying to connect a couple of thoughts here. I know that you had talked about something that you want to optimize for in the future as becoming a good father. What do you think that you've learned from your dad that you would want to take on
00:50:13
Speaker
and carry on into your role as a father like in the future? Yeah, that's a good question. So I think something that sticks out to me about my dad was that like
00:50:32
Speaker
This is maybe a function of them owning their own business and having flexibility, but my dad was always there to play, whether it's tennis or throw the baseball or play board games or whatever. We just did so much stuff together and he had the flexibility to be able to do it.
00:50:59
Speaker
So I would say there's a ton of hard work that went into that and they do these jewelry shows where sometimes they're gone for a week at a time and they're waking up at 5 a.m. every day and working all day long and there's definitely times where they have to grind.
00:51:23
Speaker
But that allows them the flexibility to make time for important things. So I'd say that's probably the biggest thing. He was always there to throw around a baseball, play tennis, whatever. And so we got to spend a lot of really quality time together. Did the same thing in pickleball too.
00:51:45
Speaker
So damn, that's cool. So like interesting, like what you kind of remember about like your childhood and like kind of like what you're talking about there. It's just like them being present, like your dad being present. Um, even though they're entrepreneurs, which entrepreneurs during their time, which isn't like that that long ago, but like then it wasn't that easy as compared to now with like technology, like things weren't as like streamlined, but.
00:52:12
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like back then being an entrepreneur meant you really had to be like present, like in, you'd like physically be in a lot of these locations in order to like conduct a business as opposed to now you can kind of be like virtual, but that's cool that even with like the hours and like the effort that they put into entrepreneurship, they still made, he still made like time for you and stuff.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm, I'm fortunate. You know, my mom grinded a ton on the, on the business too. And, um, and yeah, I'm, uh, I'm lucky that they are both able to be around for, for whatever. Yeah. Cause you're an only child, right? Yeah. That's interesting. Damn. Did you guys have pets growing up? Yeah. We had one dog buddy, buddy. He was a goat, goat dog. Were your parents always entrepreneurs?
00:53:00
Speaker
For the most part, I mean, they worked a few jobs, but they've, I don't know exactly when they started Dimples, but...
00:53:13
Speaker
for at least five years before I was born, they were doing that. So as long as I've known them, they've been entrepreneurs. Has that carried over into how you conducted your life? For sure, yeah. So even when I went into accounting, I worked at Deloitte for some time. And my objective there was to work, get some experience, and then
00:53:41
Speaker
understand an industry pretty well and either work in the executive side of a company or start my own thing. I'd seen the lifestyle that they have and I've always been somebody that's up for betting on myself and trusting myself to make it happen.
00:54:08
Speaker
The biggest thing that enticed me was I saw the fact that they work hard, but their hard work pays off in the form of flexibility and being able to be there for important things. They came to every one of my sporting events. They even come to some of my sporting events now when they're all over the country.
00:54:32
Speaker
So every single one of my Whitewater tennis matches, all my high school tennis matches, middle school basketball games, soccer games, all that stuff. Like they were always there able to be there. Yeah. That was actually something I was going to ask. Like, uh, how'd you guys end up in or why did you guys end up in Austin, you and your fiance?
Life in Austin and Practice Priorities
00:54:51
Speaker
Yeah. So we, uh, we grew up in Racine, Wisconsin and we kind of always knew we wanted to like, go try something else and go explore a little bit. And so 2022, um, well, actually we were potentially going to move and try something out in 2020.
00:55:12
Speaker
one but Jenny won the Miss Wisconsin title so she had to be in Wisconsin basically and so she spent a full year touring around Wisconsin doing appearances and that was her full-time job so it was a pretty cool job I got to go to a bunch of cool stuff with her
00:55:29
Speaker
So that pushed things back a little bit and we decided that during that period that like we definitely wanted to go try something else out. Needed to do like a couple of things to be there. It needed to be like a cool place. We wanted to go somewhere cool.
00:55:48
Speaker
and it needed to have good pickleball. Check and check, I think Austin's pretty good at both those. For sure. Austin was the natural sort of fit. I think the cool places that we were thinking of were maybe California or San Diego, Denver, Phoenix, Florida, and then
00:56:16
Speaker
You know, somewhere Northeast, maybe also there's Austin, but Austin was the best spot for both cool and good pickleball. Yeah. Yeah. I guess in 22. Yeah. There had been like quite a few pros here. Yeah. How's it like impacted your career so far?
00:56:40
Speaker
You know, it just makes it easier to, it makes there less roadblocks to, to success, right? Like, you know, it puts the burden on you. Now there's no excuses, right? Like back in, in Wisconsin, like it'd be so hard to get four guys together to play a high level game. And so.
00:57:09
Speaker
It didn't happen a tremendous amount. You had to drill, whatever, but now there are no barriers to getting a good game. You just gotta set it up. You can have a good game every day. Makes it more convenient. Damn, that's sweet. Yeah, it seems like you guys have good training partners. For sure. You want me to read you the list of people? I go down the list. Oh, yes. I've got it in a spreadsheet, surprise, surprise. Do you have it like...
00:57:40
Speaker
This is my first call or first text. No, no, no, no, no, no. Um, but we got these, we got a bunch of really good players that you might not have heard of. There's Thomas shields on this list. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Under no circumstances. Maurice the grease is on this list, but not Thomas. No.
00:57:58
Speaker
Where's JT? Is JT on the list? JT's not quite on the list yet. So we got Austin O'Reilly, Adrian Ahmed, Maximo, Pete, Carlos, Etienne, Grant, Wyatt, Lauren, Vivian, Lina, Julian, Sincola, Stefan, AJ. Although I can basically take AJ off this list. Where's he at now? Who knows? Yeah.
00:58:23
Speaker
Thomas, Colin, Deckel, Ben, Leia, Jack, there's Hunter and Yates, Wyatt, I think I said already, like, they're just, and that's not even including a bunch of the, like, good 5-0 plus players around. So it's like, you can get a game whenever you want, basically. Yeah.
00:58:43
Speaker
Do you get to play with Colin? Not a tremendous amount. I maybe play with him like once a month or so. Like I think they mostly just drill with each other, Ben and Colin. When you get to play with him, does he just come out for like a foursome game or is it like you and him practicing?
00:59:01
Speaker
I've drilled a couple of times with those guys. Um, I'd say more regularly, it's like, we get a game, me, deckle, Ben and Colin, something like that. Oh, okay. That's interesting. When you look at that list and like, when you prioritize who you want to practice with.
00:59:19
Speaker
What do you look for at this point? Cause like this thought had come up like earlier in this conversation, but man, it's crazy cause you've, you've only been pro for three years. I know you had talked about how in the past you were like playing tournaments with your dad from like 2014, 2018. So you've been a pro for three years, but it feels so long.
00:59:41
Speaker
that long ago that you were doing the chainsaw serve you were like successful in singles and then also in like of course like other uh the other formats too but like when you had the franklin uh deal and you were like a sponsored franklin player so like yeah what do you what do you look for now as far as like optimizing your game
01:00:06
Speaker
in terms of like who I play with or who you play with and like what you look for, like how you can get the best like bang for your buck, if you will, like, uh, it from practice.
01:00:20
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, practice, maybe this isn't the best answer, but I wanna play with people that are fun. So you saw, we were having fun. And at the end of the day, yes, pickleball is absolutely a business and a job for me, but if it wasn't fun, I would quit. Deloitte wasn't fun, so I quit. If I'm not having fun, I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna go find something that's more enjoyable.
01:00:48
Speaker
Yeah. So, so, uh, you know, I love the games that we play, Cincola, Jack, Stefan, uh, decal, like, you know, just fun, fun dudes where we can like talk a little shit back and forth and, and have a good time. Um, cause they're all at a good enough level, right? Like there's a certain probably minimum requirement. If it's shit, pickleball, it's not going to be fun. Um, if it's shit people, it's not gonna be fun.
01:01:17
Speaker
Good people, good pickleball, you don't have to be Ben Johns to be able to practice with Zane. That sounds so douchey. If you're a good dude and good enough at pickleball, or good gal, good enough at pickleball, let's go.
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah. Like Carlos. Carlos is a perfect example. Dude was a shitter like, like nine months ago, but he was a cool dude, so we would hang out with him. And now he's gotten so much better. You gotta send me this clip. I'm gonna send it to Carlos. Yeah, yeah. Carlos and I are like, are good buddies. He's the one who runs the lab, as you know, and he was pretty new, but I was like, yeah, this guy's getting better. He's just a cool, cool dude. He's grinding. Like, let's play.
01:02:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That lab Carlos. Yeah. Of course. Cool dude. Um, yeah, I guess I'd never really get to see him like in a competitive setting as far as like playing. So I haven't seen his like progression, but that's cool to hear that he's just gotten better. I guess, man, if you surround yourself with Zane Navratil, Zane Gucci, dude, what?
01:02:21
Speaker
What's up with that? Who I've been meaning to ask this, who honestly updates your Wikipedia page? There's some ridiculous shit on there. There's something that says, you go by the name Gucci. There's also stuff that says, in quotes, tremendous skill in the sport, able to return shots from opponents that against most players would be winners.
01:02:48
Speaker
I don't know, I think anybody can get on Wikipedia and make a profile. Yeah, I couldn't tell you. Where did the Gucci thing come from? Is that actually true? Nobody actually really calls me Gucci. So in high school, I was, believe it or not, kind of a little shit.
01:03:10
Speaker
Um, so I like to stir the pot. I liked to, um, you know, just, I liked to poke and prod and, and whatnot. And, um, but.
01:03:24
Speaker
I went through a phase where I thought I was really creative and funny and I made all of my different accounts based on rappers or dictators.
01:03:40
Speaker
Like my Snapchat account was like Kim Jong the illest. And like, and my, let's see, I had an Instagram. So I know I had, I had something or another where I was Waka Flocka Zane. Cause like for Waka Flocka Flame.
01:04:00
Speaker
And then I also did Gucci Zane for my Instagram because I thought it was just like hilarious. And then nobody ever really called me that. I just thought it was funny. And then Kyle Slinko from, from boxcar, um, when we started playing pickleball together, he was, he found that old Instagram and he started calling me Gucci Zane and he started calling me Gucci. And so it kind of caught on for a little bit in, in pickleball. Let's bring it back. Can we get t-shirts? Gucci.
01:04:27
Speaker
There we go. What is boxcar productions?
01:04:32
Speaker
It's just his little, it's his media company. They did the live streaming for a bunch of majorly pickleball and APP events. Okay. That's where I like, I was like, I feel like I should know this or they've like done something in pickleball. Okay. So they did the, I remember the MLP events. That's cool. Yeah, dude. He's a, he's a smart guy. Like he just saw, he's a great entrepreneur back in 2019 or 2020. He saw that like.
01:04:59
Speaker
people are just live streaming these events from their phone. Like Scott Golden was this guy who would just go to like 50 tournaments a year and literally just set up a tripod and record from his phone. He's like, oh, there's a need for people to live stream these matches. And so he is a completely self-taught guy. And now he's like in charge of like live streaming some of these pretty legit events. Dude knew nothing about cameras at all, like three and a half years ago.
Pickleball Media and Teaching Career
01:05:27
Speaker
Four years ago. So that's awesome. Yeah, it's a cool story
01:05:32
Speaker
Get them on the pod. You'd have a fun time talking with them. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. That would be cool. Yeah. I haven't really gotten like people from the creative side. Like I wanted to get this guy named Jake Lewis. He was like the creative director for the PPA. Uh, super cool dude. Like I think you could credit him for some of the transformations that happened in like the past year, just like modern like aesthetics and transformations of how things look. But then I think some think just like the terms changed. Um, just like with other people, like the hype guys.
01:06:04
Speaker
No comment terms changed Yeah, I'll have to check him out but Like we keep going on the topic of like entrepreneurs and when I look at your career
01:06:20
Speaker
It's pretty different from everyone else. If you look at the players, then you look at how many of them have YouTube channels, not that many. How many are at the top in the top 10 or have been in the top 10 for at least more than a year or more than one event? How many of them are consistently up there? Then how many of them have a signature paddle? How many of them run clinics?
01:06:47
Speaker
What advice would you have for players from the entrepreneurial perspective of how to really optimize the opportunity that you have as a player? Because Ben, when you look at your career,
01:07:02
Speaker
Which is not that you're anywhere close to like it being done But you've had good sponsorships. You even look at your website. You have like plenty of good sponsorships just like seems like You're the type of guy who just actually doesn't have enough time in his day anymore
01:07:19
Speaker
Well, I mean, I would say if there's advice that I have for players, it would be that this does come to an end for everybody, right? No matter how good you get, no matter how much money you make in Pickleball, like it comes to an end. And so, you know, you want to prepare for that inevitability, right? It's either you get old, the game passes you up, you get hurt, like it's going to end at some point.
01:07:50
Speaker
I really didn't want to go back to being an auditor, so I'm making sure that I can make ends meet in Pickleball if I don't touch a paddle ever again. That comes with building assets like the YouTube channel, it comes from promoting on social media, it comes from working closely with partners and whatnot.
01:08:12
Speaker
and networking, creating good relationships. So I'd say acknowledging the inevitability that pickleball as a player is going to end for everybody is not fun, but I think an understanding of that helps you to plan for it. If you just don't think about it,
01:08:36
Speaker
then you know you're at some point it's gonna happen and you're not gonna be prepared so i would say like find something else within the industry that you enjoy and is income generating and start building what came first like among the things that you had.
01:08:55
Speaker
that probably brought you revenue like the signature paddle the clinics youtube channel like what seemed like the best option when you were first trying to figure all that out of like being more than just a player
01:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, so actually this came from, I worked a ton of hours in my job and I was gonna get reassigned to a different client over the summer in Wisconsin. And so I was already working like 12 hour days and I was gonna be working even more. And so I decided to quit in June of 2020.
01:09:30
Speaker
And the plan was actually to just teach some pickleball lessons over the summer while I look for a new job. And the lessons really took off. It quickly turned into group lessons, quickly turned into small clinics, quickly turned into larger clinics than multiple clinics per day. And so it started out with teaching and clinics.
01:09:59
Speaker
And that was something that I did a ton of through 2022. I created the APP Academy, which partnered up with the APP to put on clinics every day, every Monday after a tournament.
01:10:17
Speaker
Um, and so did a ton through 2022, um, not as many through 2023 and 2024 as I focused on things that don't require me to be there that are a little bit more, more passive, right? Because I would always be a bottleneck in a Zane Navratil clinic. If Zane's not there, the clinic doesn't happen, right? So I started shifting more towards things that
01:10:42
Speaker
I can do and sort of farm out and scale. Like YouTube production, obviously I need to be on court there, but in a clinic I can be on court with
01:10:56
Speaker
16 people at a given time. Like you saw that one video had 200,000 views. So I can help 200,000 people, you know, by filming a 10 minute video or whatever scaling is crazy. And that can be repurposed, right? Like a clinic, you could film it, but like a clinic, you're only really doing that like once. And like you said, it's like the limitation is how many people it reaches.
01:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, that video like give one video. It's like 20 I think your average is like honestly like anywhere from like 30,000 views to like 60,000 which is like huge and Another benefit is like most people don't really have to pay for it either Which is like you're also like providing like a free free content free service for free product to people that's dope and
01:11:44
Speaker
you don't have to try and squeeze everything into like one clinic too. You can like come out with different types of content. How do you ideate on the content? Like the topics and like ideas? So historically it's come from just things that I've worked with people in person. So Sally's having trouble with her forehand ink because she's using her wrist. Like I figured out a lot of it's come from working with students. I'd say more recently,
01:12:13
Speaker
I've probably been going a little bit more into the high level changes in the game, like players not slicing, returns, some of the newer shots and tactics that are just coming from... Banana shot? Banana shot, yeah. At the high level of the game.
01:12:32
Speaker
So, and then, you know, some of the creative stuff, like we just started, uh, filming pros versus five O's, which I'm super excited about where it's more entertainment. So myself and other pros from Austin play against very good players that just aren't quite pros. So we have really high quality of, of play, but we're also changing some of the rules. Like a couple of weeks ago we filmed one where the five O's had a wider court to hit into.
01:13:02
Speaker
We made the sideline 18 inches wider. We had one where Jack Monroe and I had to play one up, one back, so I couldn't volley.
01:13:15
Speaker
Um, we had one where the, the five O's where we had to stay further back from the kitchen. We were two feet further away from the kitchen. And then the last one was the pros couldn't dink. We weren't allowed to hit the ball into the kitchen. If we did hit the ball into the kitchen, it was a point for the other team. So the kitchen was out if we hit it.
01:13:41
Speaker
So like I've been doing some of that stuff and just like the ideas just keep flowing. Like those are just so much fun. Cause yeah, it's just, those are just genuinely fun to do and definitely going to do a whole lot more. They're fun. You're probably learning like they won't.
01:13:59
Speaker
There's this idea from the ecological approach of how to, using constraints in practice, and there's that idea of you don't necessarily need to practice things that you would do exactly in a competition setting, but the fact that you're solving problems is actually what you wanna be doing because it creates an adaptable problem solver rather than you're adjusting a skill set or a technique. That is interesting.
01:14:27
Speaker
Something that sounds the most interesting is that not being able to dank, then you just become more creative and you try to like figure out how to solve the problem, whether or not that problem would be realistic in the competition setting. They say like still helps because you just learn how to figure things out.
01:14:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think the problem solving is obviously super important and you're doing it in a regular pickleball match as well. There are more well-defined metas in a pickleball match, a normal one, but being able to solve problems leads to be able to do it in real matches. And so I think some of the interesting part about this is I'll come up with an idea.
01:15:09
Speaker
And like, you know, we have to stay eight feet away from the net instead of seven. And I, even I don't know how much that's going to affect things. Like even I don't know who's going to, who's going to win that, right? We, we bump out the sidelines 18 inches. I'm like.
01:15:31
Speaker
I don't know whether Ryan and Ahmed are going to win or me and John are going to win. And that's, I think part of the fun, cause I'm participating in it. I'm creating the ideas, but also like, I don't know who's going to win and like figuring out, okay.
01:15:48
Speaker
you know, if we can't dink, what do we do instead? Or one up, one back. The one up, one back video I think is gonna be so good. It's gonna be the first one that's released. So one up, one back. Is it just a one v one or like your team, there's one person up and one person back. So my team. Okay. So we played against Adrian and Maximo, a couple of Austin guys who are good. They've had good results in some of the pro stuff. But they're, you know, they're not like, they're not like deep run main draw pros.
01:16:17
Speaker
Um, but we decided, we decided that it was one up, one back, but the way that we defined it was I couldn't volley. So at no point could I take the ball out of the air. Are you the person up front? I'm the person in I'm staying back. Okay. Right. If I could, so I can't volley at any point and.
01:16:43
Speaker
I had to take every single third shot drop. So Jack wasn't allowed to touch the ball off of the third. So we ended up in like sort of a stacked position where like I was staying back, Jack is up at the net, but I'm playing left side, he's playing the right side. And they started to try and like dink me, I would come up, I would get the dink, I would run back because I can't volley.
01:17:08
Speaker
and like there was some there was so much strategy changes throughout a three game match that like that one was so much fun damn that's another thing too though it's like you're also mixing up what practice can look like and like making it fun which that in in itself just makes pickleball and like the fact that you're in a pro career like more enjoyable right like
01:17:31
Speaker
You're just making it more fun because it could become monotonous. And some sometimes like the creativity is, is like lacking a little bit because you're in that same structure, but damn, that's so interesting. Yeah. I mean, like for that one, Jack got a ton of work on like poaching, right? Like, so he's up in the net. He's like poaching everything. I got a ton of work on, on dropping and driving and setting up somebody who's going to poach. Right. So it was some good sort of cross training, right?
01:18:02
Speaker
So yeah, I'm super, super stoked about, about those videos. Yeah, that's going to be sweet. I think they'll crush, but like we talked about before, we have no idea what's going to crush and what doesn't. Yeah. Cause there's a video you have about like bangers use this or like use this against bangers and you watch like other channels and like historically the videos about bangers have very high like, uh, view rates and like retention rates. But then you look at the video you post, I think it's only like 30 or 60,000 views, which.
01:18:31
Speaker
good but it's not like as high as those other channels where it's like oh do this against a banger when the video is like 400,000 views you're like what it's it's weird if you like try to hit on a very similar and relevant topic yeah if somebody is a YouTube expert like hit me up is yeah I mean like I've got good ideas but I am NOT
01:18:56
Speaker
Like actually that's a pretty legit request. Like if somebody's a YouTube expert for sure, like shoot me a DM or something. Cause like, I try to surround myself by people who are smarter than, than I am like.
01:19:09
Speaker
I would say unless Ben or Colin is listening to this, I'm probably smarter than you at pickleball, but I'm sure you're smarter than me at YouTube and a million other things. So like, yeah, I have good ideas for content.
Pro XR Partnership and Paddle Technology
01:19:23
Speaker
Like, I feel like I know what to teach Sally or, you know, some good ideas for, for fun match-ups, but like, I'm no expert in titles or editing or any of that stuff. That's for sure.
01:19:38
Speaker
What I saw like, they seem good. Like the thumbnails seem good. It's like straightforward using kind of like an arrow to help like grab attention. The colors are like a complimentary and there's like decent amount of contrast and it's pretty consistent. You're always in the thumbnail too. Um, yeah. It's interesting. I got some of the basics down. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the basics. What has been like the difference between Frank when you were with Franklin versus like now with Pro XR?
01:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, so I would say with Franklin, I was very much a sponsored player. It was kind of a user paddle, make some posts, and that's more or less it. But the cool thing with Pro XR was when I started speaking to them,
01:20:30
Speaker
they were really interested in bringing somebody in who was an expert in the field and had business knowledge. And so I'm actually an employee of the parent company, the private equity firm 35 Capital. So I'm the director of Pickleball Strategy for 35 Capital, which their whole strategy was to, they started out with Pro XR, but they're looking to acquire and merge with a bunch of different brands within Pickleball.
01:20:59
Speaker
whether that's clothing or shoes or whatever, you know, the best example here is they just announced UPP, the United Paddles partnership or Pickleball partnership. And that brought together PaddleTech Pro XR and Boundless Pickleball under one umbrella.
01:21:22
Speaker
These guys wanted me not only as a as a player but for my like I guess industry expertise whether that's designing paddles or knowing knowing people's preferences or connections or whatever they wanted me on the business side of things and so it's been an absolutely unbelievable partnership because like
01:21:43
Speaker
you know, they pay me to give certain advice to them. And as a result of that, like they listen when I have some two cents. But yeah, no, they're unbelievable partners to me. Like they make me feel like a true partnership rather than a, you know, a sponsorship. And yeah, I mean, I'll be with ProXR 35 Capital for forever.
01:22:09
Speaker
So that's another huge thing. It's like, man, you just like figuring out how to be an asset in so many ways. Like you're not just like, yeah, you're not just trying to think of like things on the surface level or just like a one time off thing. Like just being a sponsor player. It's like, okay, like how can I actually be an asset to the company?
01:22:28
Speaker
Damn, that's sick. Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty fortunate throughout all of this, right? Where like there's a bunch of chaos in pro pickleball world, right? Like I'm very fortunate where I have a paycheck coming regardless of what happens. It takes some of that.
01:22:44
Speaker
stress out and yeah, I just can't say enough how awesome those guys have been. It makes me want to promote them more too, right? They listen to me and it just makes me feel better about them.
01:23:00
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's you know, that's those are the best partnerships right where like both people are in it for good reasons That's awesome. That is like something so big though, right? It's like you're not just Making a name for yourself. It's like an image but like your knowledge is
01:23:17
Speaker
it's like knowledge is really like what you ultimately kind of want to be compensated for or make like a living off of like knowledge like we just talked about doesn't require you to be physically in a place you could like write books there's so much like passive income streams but also people like seek you out because like if you have knowledge that puts you in like a niche in a way because you have your own independent way of thinking and your way of approaching things which is clearly like been working out for you like i can't
01:23:47
Speaker
Really can't think of many other players that are kind of doing what you're doing I think Ben because he has that lifetime deal with Yola Like I'm sure he has a lot of influence on what their direction of pickleball like goes in the direction they go Yeah, that's super cool. Yeah, I guess he has like pick won't get away isn't a lot of other like small ventures, but Do you guys have like?
01:24:08
Speaker
Anything that you're able to like talk about as far as like releases or like maybe paddle technology Jack had like Briefly said that there's like some they're working on paddle stuff, but he didn't go into like any detail about it Yeah, I mean if you're a good paddle company you're always working on on stuff like R&D never stops and and you know They've branded themselves as a tech company and they we are constantly like, you know
01:24:35
Speaker
experimenting with new stuff. So yeah, we'll have a new line at some point in 2024. There's not a whole lot that I can say. But, you know, 2023 was a really good year for Pro XR. Like we sold a ton of those paddles, not without a little controversy, but hey, you know.
01:24:58
Speaker
Nah, it's good. Am I the most controversial player in pickleball at this point with serves, with paddles, with opinions on tours, like, you know?
01:25:10
Speaker
I got to be up there at least. That's a good, I think that's a good brand for yourself. And I'm like, I'm not even like a confrontational guy, like at all, really, but you know, you're like one of the nicest guys. I appreciate that until you really get to know me. Then like you saw how nice of a guy I am over at, over at practice. Like once you get to know me, I turned from nice guy to like asshole, but like I'm a nice asshole.
01:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good way to put it. I don't know how many of those exist, but, uh, yeah, dude, your paddle was a hit. Like, yeah, your paddle was hit. I'm excited to see like what y'all also work on. Um, that's pretty crazy that they also acquired paddle tech. I hear good things about Annaliese paddle.
01:25:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm. That's poppy. That's poppy. It's, um, merge. So it's not like fully like an, an acquisition. Oh, it's a little bit different. Yeah. So. Yep. Yep. Um, speaking of, every time I hear a merger, just think of PPA and MLP. So now my brain is going to like PPA. Yeah, but this one happened. They signed the deal. Like they're good.
01:26:23
Speaker
Um, what have your thoughts been on the like recent changes of probably just like, well, I guess like the past month, but the, I think progressive draws have been happening for like a few months now, but mo main two things also because Tyson posted about it, but the Vulcan ball and the progressive draws.
01:26:41
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, I've been, I've, I think I first mentioned progressive draws probably, and I didn't say it with that wording, but I was talking about alternative formats to, to the current or to the previous one day tournaments for probably since the beginning of last year. And so why?
01:27:06
Speaker
Because you need to solve the problem of not knowing when players are going to play like players need to have a schedule and they need to be able to do that for for fans they need to be able to do that for the player and they need to be able to do that for
01:27:20
Speaker
television and gambling like You can't really do any of those things without a set schedule Or at least like a followed by schedule like right so I like the progressive draw a lot and
01:27:37
Speaker
It just makes sense. You play a men's doubles, a men's singles, and a mixed doubles in a given day. You got three matches and you're done. And then you play the draw over a couple of days. I think it makes a ton of sense. This past weekend was not a progressive draw. So that was like tough on the body. The progressive draw you're limited to like
01:28:00
Speaker
In the early rounds, you might have multiple matches, but in the later rounds, you are only having like three matches per day if you're in all the different events. So I think Tyson likes the progressive draws. He says, one, serveral needs to go, two, Vulcan ball needs to go, three, progression draws need to stay. My body was so trashed after 10 individual games of singles. I was 60 to 70% at most during mixed
Serve Rules and Controversies
01:28:25
Speaker
day.
01:28:25
Speaker
Not fair to fans, my mixed partner, or myself that players are all beat up and suffering. No way this 34 year old dad can handle stuff days like that. Progression draws is the answer.
01:28:42
Speaker
That's another guy who's done really good with like Brandon. Yeah, he's done. He's done stuff for sure. Um, yeah, he's got all the same avenues, YouTube camps, um, you know, all that stuff. So yeah. So I think progression draws are good. Um,
01:29:00
Speaker
The new server rule I don't think solves anything. It's still an impossible to enforce rule, which I think means it's a bad rule. It makes sense. I thought the whole point was to keep it below someone's belly button because at some point, or their hip or whatever, there's some area, but now you still can't really tell
01:29:28
Speaker
Yeah. They just moved it from one point where you can't enforce it to a different lower point where you can't enforce it. Right? Like before it was your belly button and nobody knows where the belly button is. Now it's the top of the hip and like, Oh, we changed it. We made it better. No, you just changed where the problem occurs. Do you think they should just not have like a serve rule? I think if you want a rule that is
01:29:56
Speaker
If you want to continue with the way that pickleball has been played, I think that the best way to do it is to utilize the drop serve because there's one thing to enforce. It's, are you simply dropping the ball? And then the refs don't have to look at anything.
01:30:14
Speaker
I think any changes to loosening up serve rules would I think need to probably add additional dimensions to the court. So like what I was thinking of is, you know, if you really wanted to say, okay, you can serve however you want, you'd probably need to put in a service line or, um, or
01:30:40
Speaker
like make the person serve from further back behind the court. But I think a big part of pickleball is the fact that we're not serving overhand. I think the overhand serve is probably the biggest barrier to entry for tennis players. It's really hard. And I think eliminating that barrier to entry is huge for pickleball.
01:30:58
Speaker
So I don't think Pickball would want to go to any sort of like completely free service rule just because I think it's great for amateurs to be able to come in and play.
01:31:14
Speaker
But I think the drop serve sort of does accomplish it, right? If you utilize the drop serve, you are free to swing however you want once the ball hits the ground. Like the height that you drop it from it's because it's like a pickle ball and it's also landing on like the court service. Have you noticed like a big difference if you're like, like is one more advantageous than the other in terms of like the height of where you drop it? Or are you like usually trying to drop it like,
01:31:43
Speaker
from as high as you physically can yeah um
01:31:49
Speaker
Yeah, you wanna drop it from as high as you can, but it's not like, if your goal is to make the ball bounce as high as possible, you wanna drop it from as high as possible up to a certain, probably, there's probably an upper limit to how high a pickle ball can bounce. But yeah, you wanna drop it from higher in order to, in order to like get the ball to bounce higher.
01:32:15
Speaker
make your contact point higher. But it neutralizes things a little bit because even if you're seven feet tall, the ball isn't bouncing all that much higher if you're six feet tall.
01:32:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean like as much as I'm in favor and always have been in favor of like letting the serve be a weapon, I really dislike unenforceable rules. Sounds on par with someone who enjoys creating controversy.
01:32:47
Speaker
Does it though? I'm gonna read the rules and I'm gonna use the rules to my advantage, like 100%, but the rules are the rules. I don't try to play outside of the rules, but if something's written, it is the way that it is and I'm gonna play by the rules.
01:33:06
Speaker
You're going to get as close as you possibly can. 100%. Like the pro XR paddles. Absolutely. If there's a limit, there's a limit. Like, but don't change the goal posts once. Like if we found a way to, to like get to that limit. Yeah. God, do you know how many people you pissed off with the chainsaw serve? Yeah. Yeah. I'm well aware. That was such a like iconic time though. Like the,
01:33:35
Speaker
Like in the pro scene, of course, it was like very interesting. But even like an amateur scene, like I had a guy who like became very good at doing it and he was like doing it to like three O's and three fives and people were just so, so sour. Yeah. Um, you know, I have plenty of opinions on the, on the chainsaw serve. Um, yeah, it sounds like that guy, this is, this
01:33:59
Speaker
Reading this chainsaw serve was just as much of a skill as doing the chainsaw serve. So like there was, there was never a single unpredictable chainsaw serve. You can absolutely always 100% anticipate which way it's going to bounce. It's just unfortunate that that tip didn't come out until after people were so pissed.
01:34:23
Speaker
Well, I mean, it did. And I think a big part of the reason why I was upset by the rule change was that the rules committee used, the USA Pickleball Rules Committee just used incorrect logic. Like some of their logic was that the ball bounces unpredictably and that's just, that's not true. Like let's have a conversation about the fact of the matter and then we can decide whether we want to ban this or not. But like decisions were made based on false information.
01:34:54
Speaker
Which like, if we want to ban the chainsaw serve, let's ban the chainsaw serve, but let's have an informed conversation about it. It's weird that they, I don't have anything against them. I just think it's weird that there's no like other governing body and that like the pros, and I guess it does trickle down to the amateurs. Just, you just have to adhere to whatever they say. Like, like you said, there's no like conversation about it. There's no like informed, you know, like decision or like argument against it. It's just like,
01:35:23
Speaker
This is the reason why and if it doesn't make sense then it still gets enforced. Well, I think there's like, you know, there's some comment periods and whatnot.
01:35:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, I've said this on the Dink podcast as well, but like we're at the point certainly where we need different governing bodies for different objectives. USA Pickleball does a great job of growing amateur participation. The objective of the PPA is not to grow amateur participation, right? It is to create the best product, pickleball product for television.
01:35:58
Speaker
In every single sport, there's different rules based on different objectives, right? Like, you know, little kids soccer, they use a tiny little goal, a tiny ball, and a tiny field, right? They don't play soccer on the same field that the World Cup is played on.
01:36:19
Speaker
If you're playing for kids, use these set of rules. If you're playing in college, use this set of rules. Adult soccer, use this set of rules. Professional soccer, use this set of rules. You need rules for the objective that you're trying to accomplish.
01:36:37
Speaker
Right. And so I think that USA pickleball and professional pickleball are going to continue to diverge in a few different ways. That would be hilarious though, to see like kids playing on. Can you imagine with a ball that's like half the size of them?
01:36:57
Speaker
But that's what we're doing right now. We have professionals playing the game pretty much the exact same way that like, you know, 90 year olds are playing the game. It doesn't make sense to do that. Yeah. Yeah. It's.
01:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, I guess they're not outfitting it to the specific context. They're just kind of using a broad generalization. Do you have any influence on them? You probably don't based on the way you tweet. Any influence on rules or regulations? Do any of the pros, really?
01:37:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean like our opinions I think are certainly considered. You know, several of the different things that we had talked about on the podcast got implemented by MLP. Whether that was switching sides at the end of every game, you know, a challenge system. I think we had talked about a progression draw, we had talked about changing out the balls every game, you know,
01:37:58
Speaker
Pickleball is absolutely not a solved sport at the professional level and so if there's good ideas kudos to the people who who take good ideas at this point and implement them so there's gonna be I think we've been responsible for some others have been responsible for others and You know kudos to the leagues for Acknowledging that this is a very new sport with new problems and there might be a better way. Yeah for sure
01:38:25
Speaker
Speaking of a better way, the Vulcan ball. How do you feel about the Vulcan ball? I think that Vulcan is going to make some changes to their ball. I'd have to imagine. What a polite way to say it sucks. It sucks. So it sucks for
01:38:47
Speaker
in for pros I think but like I'd say for amateurs it is probably a very good ball it solved the big problem of Dura's that they break at our level they go out of round too quickly which creates a lot of bad bounces when they're round they play pretty well they go out around quickly so
01:39:11
Speaker
They seem to generate a little bit more spin than Duras did. They seem to play...
01:39:23
Speaker
They play pretty differently based on the conditions and temperature. So in cold temperatures, they seem to play faster than Adura. In warm temperatures, they seem to play slower than Adura. So the variation between temperatures seems to be larger with the ball.
01:39:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's, uh, there are a lot of, a lot of bad balances with this ball for sure. You know, I think Eric, like in our semifinal match on center court, like he whiffed a return and like dudes, a pro athlete, like he's not going to just whiff a random ball. Like there, there are a lot of bad balances.
01:40:06
Speaker
So like the Vulcan is like going out of shape versus like the Dura is oblong, right? Like I feel like they're naturally like some of them are just like oblong and they like have weird bounces. But I guess you're kind of saying that the Vulcan comes like. Initially, it's a standard like what you would expect, but then over time it starts to like morph.
01:40:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say that they just, you hit them a couple times and they go out of round relatively quickly. I'd say the Dura's seem to hold their shape better, but they also crack, right? I've never cracked a Vulcan ball. Oh really? Oh damn. It's interesting. Uh, I always probably throw them away because they go out around first, but, Oh, so it's like, uh, whichever problem comes first.
01:40:56
Speaker
Yeah, I would say the interesting thing is the useful life of a Dura and a Vulcan is probably a better conversation because Dura's problem is they crack, Vulcan's problem is they go out of round. And so for an amateur, if it's slightly out of round, it doesn't matter quite as much. An amateur is more concerned with whether their ball cracks or not.
01:41:20
Speaker
For a pro, where we're going to change out balls every game, or we're going to use new balls every practice, it's not as important to us how long the balls last, but the quality of the ball as we're playing with it. So I have no doubts that the Vulcan is a very good ball for most players. It needs some improvements at the pro level.
01:41:43
Speaker
Hopefully they do like change that like the early they're just able to like move quickly on like iterating if they think that that's a like a critical component. I think like the Selkirk like I was like I was practicing with my buddy yesterday and we're just like checking out the Selkirk we're at like East Side Paddle Club. They just have a bunch of like Selkirks and
01:42:05
Speaker
Initially it was great because you're like, Oh man, the durability and like the half life of these balls is great. Like we don't have to keep buying like multiple walls. But then once you realize like over time, like, Oh, this sucks. The ball just gets soft. And then you're like, Oh man, like the durability has its, uh, as it's like drawback because it just gets softer. And you're like, Oh shit, this ball is like super soft now. And yeah, it's interesting.
01:42:33
Speaker
I mean, it's like tennis balls going dead, basically, right? Like pickle balls kind of go dead too. And they might not ever, a tennis ball might not ever break, but it becomes unusable. Um, one thing I wanted to talk about is like Alzheimer's now. Uh, can you go into like, how did that start?
Nonprofit Work and Personal Connections
01:42:55
Speaker
I know you raised you and I guess you could say, uh, the organization and everyone who like contributed to it, like raised nearly like $200,000, but like, how did it, what was like the inception and like, what is like kind of the future for it?
01:43:11
Speaker
Yeah. So thanks for asking because I love to, I love to shout these guys out when I can. Um, so, um, Alzheimer's runs in, in my family on my, my, my dad's side. Um, my grandma passed away from Alzheimer's and she
01:43:29
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie, it was rough. She was the nicest person and she turned into the most confused and cranky and nasty old lady, which she was somebody who
01:43:47
Speaker
just when she was her, she's the nicest person I knew. And when the disease took over, she didn't know what was going on and she was just awful. And so it really changed her and had a, you know,
01:44:05
Speaker
It was not fun to watch. As I started to grow some of my platforms and have more success in Pickleball, I started to look for a non-profit partner. And Alzheimer's was something that came to mind because of my family experience with it.
01:44:25
Speaker
And I looked at some of the national, um, big, you know, the Alzheimer's association, Alzheimer's foundation, like the big, um, nonprofits and the accountant in me took over and I looked through their financials and I was seeing that they weren't giving a tremendous amount of their revenue to the actual research. And so I didn't end up doing anything with any of these, these companies and,
01:44:53
Speaker
I taught this clinic in actually just the beginning of 2023 at Sage Hill Inn here in Austin. Have you ever been there, by the way? Dude, it's sweet. They got four pickleball courts. Is that where some of those videos are filmed? I haven't done any videos there.
01:45:11
Speaker
Yeah, it is the perfect little pickleball getaway place. So shout out to those guys. Me and Jenny do staycations there all the time. I did a clinic there, and there's this guy who emailed my team, and he was like, hey, I hurt myself, but I still want to come and watch. And the guy was in a boot, and so he was just sitting there while I was teaching the clinic.
01:45:36
Speaker
And he had this thing on his chest that said, stop Alzheimer's now. And I was like, Hey, what is that? He's like, Oh, this is a nonprofit that I run. We give a hundred percent of all of the revenue that we take in to Alzheimer's research. I was like, Oh, dude, sweet. I've been looking for somewhere to work with that actually gives the money to research.
01:45:57
Speaker
And so I looked through their financials and sure enough, actually they have one expense. You legally have to run your accounting and tax preparation expense through the nonprofit. So basically like every year they spend like $500 on that. And then the guy Sean who runs it covers that himself.
01:46:21
Speaker
So really a hundred percent of of what's given to them is sent to to research and so I was like, you know, there's no better way to give back to that cause and Sean's been an awesome partner in that and
01:46:37
Speaker
I think it's something that we can continue to grow and I think it's pretty cool to be able to use a platform to raise $200,000 for a really good cause and make a difference in that way. So the money goes towards research?
01:46:55
Speaker
Who's running it? Is it like a nonprofit organization or is it like a single individual? That's who runs stop Alzheimer's now or the research stop Alzheimer's now. So I think they have a board. Um, I would say Sean McDuffie is kind of for the most part in charge of it. He lives here in, in Austin. Um, he's actually the guy we play at his court. Um, and that's where a bunch of the highlight clips come from. So that might be what banner. Yeah.
01:47:21
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yep. So he's kind of in charge of it, but there's a board and whatnot. And then the board decides where the money is going to go. So, you know, they've funded different sort of high risk research programs at different universities, like Temple University, um, and, and several others. Um, so yeah, basically the money that they raise goes to different research programs at universities.
01:47:50
Speaker
Damn, that's interesting. Yeah, focused on finding a cure.
01:47:54
Speaker
Yeah. That's crazy that they're able to give a hundred percent of the proceeds to, uh, the research. Yeah. I mean, Sean did it for a similar reason to, to me, like his Alzheimer's runs in his family, both of his parents passed away from it. Um, and so he really runs it and fronts the costs because for him, it's either like donate to the.
01:48:21
Speaker
American Alzheimer's Association which only 10% of his donation is really gonna go to research or he does it himself runs it fronts the administrative costs and Gives the money directly to to research and does his own thing. Yeah, so Yeah, I'm very very fortunate to have found that and I think it's a really great partnership and
01:48:45
Speaker
Yeah. Like the, the percent that they like give back is very interesting because I remember I like read a post on Reddit of all places. Uh, this actually does have some credibility. Um, but they were talking about that. They're like, how do you find like, uh, like an organization that's willing to like, uh, give up more of like the, the contribution and like the total percentage. And then someone else is commenting and it was just like,
01:49:13
Speaker
We'll see. It's not that easy to, uh, to just like give everything up because there's like, it's kind of like a double-edged sword. If you, if you do, then you tend to not get the highest quality talent. And like typically the people in the role that like, one, like how many people really want to work at a nonprofit? And then like the two is like.
01:49:33
Speaker
how many very skilled people want to be able to do that level of work because it does require a lot of work if the pay is low. So they're like, they're saying like, they're just kind of like making the argument that if you wanted to draw the best talent to help this cause or like any cause you usually, you know, you want someone who's very like proficient at this, uh, the desired skill needed.
01:49:56
Speaker
And that typically requires a higher like pay or salary. So it's like, that's interesting. For sure. Well, you got to spend money to make money, right? And so Goodwill gets in trouble like every year because their CEO makes seven figures. He's making millions of dollars, but.
01:50:13
Speaker
but at the same time like is it worth it and so the percentages were bad in my opinion for for the uh for the national uh foundations but it's it was also they didn't have phenomenal scores on like charity navigator which is a it's a site that sort of
01:50:37
Speaker
evaluates how efficiently they use donations. So if I'm trying to put together an event and there are, so if I put together a crappy event and I can raise $100 and give it all to charity, or I can raise $10,000 and spend a thousand, my ratio of donation is going to be worse, but my overall contribution is going to be better if I spend money to make money. So the percentages isn't
01:51:05
Speaker
the only thing, of course, but they're, they also just weren't using the money as efficiently as I would like. So I oversimplified to use the percentage, but, um, you're absolutely, you're absolutely correct. Yeah. No, I get what you mean though. Yeah. Yeah. The Alzheimer's is like tough. I don't know if my grandma had Alzheimer's or dementia. My mom had said dementia, but like, I don't know if she was like a hundred percent right, but
01:51:30
Speaker
it's definitely weird like as a progression happens because my grandma would be like oh like how was class and she like thought I was like in high school and I would see her like it was maybe like four years ago and she like just thought I was like still in high school um and like the conversations are short or like repetitive and you're like it's also like tough because she's like damn like is what we're like talking about or the time that was spent the moment
01:51:56
Speaker
really going to be like savored or like on her end I guess or like on whoever's end it is so yeah it's definitely interesting
01:52:08
Speaker
Yeah, they kind of have the same stories that they sort of go through or their own mental things that stick out to them. Sean actually put it a really interesting way that I had never thought about, but Alzheimer's and dementia are diseases of the memory.
01:52:27
Speaker
not only do they take your the affected person's memory but they take everybody else's memory right because it would be really easy for me to remember my grandma as like a cranky old lady which she absolutely wasn't but for the last five years of her life that's what she was it wasn't her but that's what she was and so it like
01:52:49
Speaker
It almost makes you remember that family member in a negative way, even though it was the disease and not really them. So he mentioned that it takes away your memories as well as theirs, which was a way that I hadn't really thought about it before, but it makes so much sense.
01:53:07
Speaker
yeah yeah that also makes sense because like typically our memories of people are usually like of the last time we saw them or spent time with them and then also like the negativity part like humans in general just naturally gravitate towards negativity so that's tough i mean i think that's also like a lesson or like something to take away is like if you have if you know someone with alzheimer's or dementia then
01:53:32
Speaker
Try to remember them in like who they were maybe before it all happened Damn, that's interesting. Yeah, not easy to do obviously but yeah, so anything I haven't asked you about that you wanted to talk about
01:53:46
Speaker
No, nothing, nothing in particular that like that stands out to me. I mean, I love just kind of the, the free flowing conversation. Yeah. So this is, uh, this has been interesting from watching your videos on YouTube like three years ago. And then, uh, being able to sit down and have a conversation with you has been like super cool. You've always been, uh, despite what you may have said about being a nice asshole.
01:54:12
Speaker
You've been like super nice even before like this. I would always like randomly see you and you're like super cordial. So I appreciate that. Um, you, it's kind of similar to Jack, which that episode hasn't gone out, but I was like, we were kind of talking about how he's like kind of an ambassador since he's like kind of on that younger side and on the, uh, like collegiate side too. And I think like you're kind of in that same vein, like
01:54:36
Speaker
I think we can be grateful that you touch on a lot of different aspects of the sport, that you're not just a player, but you bring a good image to clinics, YouTube, to the business side of things. I'm not a pro, so I maybe can't say this confidently, but I think you generally have the right or the best intentions for everyone and wanting to have a fair and consistent and good playing experience. So it's been cool, man.
01:55:06
Speaker
Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, dude, thank you so much for having me on. And I like doing these longer form type of things. And it's not an easy thing to sit in your chair and ask this. And for the people listening, we had a good, what, 45 minute call beforehand going through some of this and doing some research. So you really do your background work, which is why I think this is such an interesting podcast to listen to and also
01:55:35
Speaker
Interesting conversation for for me to have yeah, right. I'm sick of the the surface level like How do you get into pickle? Yeah? Yeah? Oh god if you asked me that I probably would have walked out I Wanted to open up with that just to be like just with you
01:55:52
Speaker
You would have got me. I got scared. I was like, nah, just don't do it.
Interview Reflection
01:55:58
Speaker
Are we doing this? Why did you ask me 45 minutes of questions if you're going to open with how'd you get into pickleball? What's your favorite tournament? What's your favorite shot? That's an immediate no. Immediately no.
01:56:12
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, no, I appreciate you saying that man. I try to create an experience, something a little bit different, but also just show the side that people don't get to see, right? Like I think with like the, it kind of started with the founders. We always get to see the product, but we don't get to see like who's behind it, who's making it happen. And I think it's the same thing with players.
01:56:29
Speaker
There's so many of this very similar story that's talked about. It's like, Oh, like I used to play this professional sport and now I'm in pickleball. It's like, okay, well look, there's clearly more about more to you. I think like your daily checklist stuff and how you operate. Hopefully people take a lot away from that. I mean, especially with how many people are aspiring to be pros. There's just so many, so much more opportunity than just being a player. Yeah. Um, where can more people find out more information about you and like things that you're working on?
01:57:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'd say, you know, the thing that I enjoy the most is definitely YouTube. So I'm on YouTube at Zay Navratil Pickleball. I'm on basically every social media as Zay Navratil Pickleball and there's some good, good nuggets throughout, throughout all those things. I've also got a website, zaynavratilpickleball.com or ZN Pickleball if you can't spell my last name, which is understandable. So,
01:57:25
Speaker
I'd say, yeah, check, check me out on, uh, on socials or, or YouTube. Yeah. That's main thing. Yeah. I forgot to mention, uh, you're also the co-host of the pickle pod and no offense to the previous hosts, but you're a, you're a great, uh, addition or replacement. Yeah. I'm texting Tyson right now.
01:57:46
Speaker
Cool, man. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me on do yeah. I hope you liked it I feel if you like it. I'll uh, I'll get you hooked up with with Scott and Jeff. They're they're cool dudes Yeah, I didn't chug it. So like I was like able to sip on it. So it's not that bad boy Well, sweet. Thank you, man. Yeah, I really do I