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This Sunday Podcast S1:E:15
13 Plays3 days ago
Romans 8:12-27
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Transcript
Introduction & Focus on Romans 8
00:00:03
Speaker
Greetings and welcome to this episode of The Sunday Podcast. I am Pastor Matthew Hardaway. Alongside me is Pastor and Dr. Phil Brandt. Every week on this show, we take a look at readings for the upcoming Sunday in the church here. this on Today, we will be looking at the...
00:00:22
Speaker
second The last part of Romans chapter 8 for the eighth Sunday after Pentecost or proper 12 That was my one goal today it was to get that out completely correct After a few episodes of confusion at the beginning So I will open up with a word of prayer and then we will dig right in Almighty and everlasting God give us an increase of faith Hope and love that receiving what you have promised. We may love what you have commanded Through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, at now and forever. Amen.
Challenge of Loving God's Promises
00:01:01
Speaker
Amen.
00:01:04
Speaker
That we may love what you have promised. and I always find that that such a's there's kind of two ways to to to to to to to understand that that prayer. um yeah It's like, would we find it hard to love what God promises us?
00:01:22
Speaker
um And I think sometimes we do. yeah I think sometimes we want to tell God what to what to give us. and And God says, that that isn't actually good for you. That isn't actually what you want. and And so it's hard to imagine that we we actually have to have our hearts shaped and changed so that we would love what God gives us.
00:01:49
Speaker
you know, that that that we would we would be we would we would say, i want that, and that I'm glad God gave it to me. um and And that naturally, normally, of of our own accord, we we might really struggle to say those things.
00:02:07
Speaker
I don't want vegetables with dinner. that's that's kind of the that's kind of the the thing. and yet and But but even even something like, you know we we we want the heaven that God, yeah we want to define what heaven is.
00:02:22
Speaker
And we want to tell God what it is that he's he's he's giving us, or or at least define what it it looks like. and And I'm not sure that, i well, I am sure that I do not have the capacity to define a life that would be an eternal bliss.
00:02:42
Speaker
um every Every attempt I would do would truly run off the rails within a hundred years, if not well before that, and and turn rather hellish, I would imagine, in the in the near term. And so I i need this prayer. i need god to I need God to help me to love what it is that he's promising us and giving us.
00:03:07
Speaker
It's almost like when the genie in the bottle is welcomed out, and you get three wishes, and I wish for this, and don't recognize what the ramifications are going to be for it to always played out or frequently played out and in that uh storyline trope yeah well yeah and and i mean you you just look at you i mean look at the you know just do a google search on the narratives of people who have won the lottery you know they they think this is going to answer all of their problems because they have real financial problems but
00:03:43
Speaker
This infusion of cash to their to their bank accounts oftentimes simply reveals that, oh, no, there was a lot more and deeper problems underneath that that you were unaware of and um and and And the money actually ends up simply becoming this kind of this catalyst for this bigger destruction to work out in their lives.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah. So we need a little help to know what to ask for. Yes. like Like the right winning lotto numbers. Yeah, yeah, right. it may That may not be the exact thing you need. Right, okay, okay, okay.
Predestination Through Love vs. Power
00:04:22
Speaker
So we're on the very last section of the of the eighth chapter of Romans. and And like I said, I think it was two weeks ago maybe, that You know, i I really think that the reader of this chapter, wherever you are, really needs to kind of read through the whole chapter and then preach on the verses that are in front of us.
00:04:44
Speaker
You know, um give us those, those ah set those words into their context. And if you remember, the very first words of the chapter are, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
00:04:57
Speaker
you it It all kind of flows out of that justification, ah that alien righteousness that God gives us in Jesus, that that that that this comes despite us.
00:05:09
Speaker
And and then it then we saw how it flows out through this whole, and it it encompasses the whole creation last week. And we talked about the the whole creation is groaning, waiting for the for the revelation of the sons of God, and and that that this is it it's it's an enormous thing that God is doing. And then at the very end last week, we talked about how ah the Holy Spirit prays for us in our weakness, with these groanings that are just too deep for words. You can't you can't even articulate this. ah And that that he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
00:05:51
Speaker
and And that will of God is is, of course, the salvation of people. God's really clear about that. He wants to save people. you know, I would that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. um and and And so God, that you know, that's the will of God revealed is this saving will. And that's going to be super important to remember as we come into this next little bit.
00:06:17
Speaker
So we start at verse 28.
00:06:21
Speaker
We know that for those who love God, all things work together for good. For those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
00:06:38
Speaker
And those whom he predestined, he also called. And those whom he called, he also justified. And those whom he justified, he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things?
00:06:51
Speaker
If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will you know how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
00:07:05
Speaker
Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It's God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died. More than that, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
00:07:23
Speaker
Who shall separate us from the love of God or the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written. For your sake we are being killed all the day long. We are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.
00:07:40
Speaker
No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers nor height nor depth nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our
00:08:05
Speaker
There's just so much right there. Where do you start? Well, I think the place to start here is with our own human frailty. We were just talking about we were just talking about how you know we we we probably don't don't even ask for the right things when we come to God. Yeah.
00:08:25
Speaker
And I've purposely moved my chair today in my office so that you see you see good Dr. Luther leaning over my shoulder here, looming back there over me, um because he's super important for getting this passage right.
00:08:41
Speaker
um and And we just got to kind of wrestle, I think, initially with with the ah with the words that Paul uses right here that are really part and parcel of all of the all of the Christian history that that preceded that, but but especially some of the stuff that's happened since Martin Luther and the Reformation.
00:09:04
Speaker
um And that's that that wonderful word, predestined. no Yes, that word. Lutherans typically avoid that word because it seems to be owned by a particular branch of the Protestant world known as Calvinism. And they are frequently um big proponents of this of of an idea which they label predestination.
00:09:36
Speaker
And As a result, I think we have sometimes um we have sometimes sort of seeded that word to them in much the same way that we sometimes don't talk about the Holy Spirit because we don't want to sound too Pentecostal. Sometimes we don't talk predestination because we don't want to sound or we don't want to get confused with ah the the the hardcore Calvinist double predestination people.
00:10:03
Speaker
theology. and and And I
Comfort in Predestination for Believers
00:10:05
Speaker
think that's a mistake. It's always a mistake to let somebody else own your words. um we We need to claim them. But how do we talk about predestination?
00:10:15
Speaker
How do we use that word in a in ah in a way that doesn't end up with, with as Luther would say, a God who's indistinguishable from Satan?
00:10:27
Speaker
Because if you really look at double predestination, what it says is, god's oh oh, God saw people going, I'm picking some people to go to hell and some people to go to heaven. And, um you know, you get on and up or a down escalator at the end of time based on this this sort of sovereign choice of God. And ah you you really have no say. You you are completely ah ah you're you're completely outside that. You are simply flotsam and jetsam on this this current, and God is dividing it.
00:10:57
Speaker
um ah And that you know that that really ends up with a God who who is deciding people should go to hell.
00:11:08
Speaker
um Which to a lot of people looks really unfortunate. it looks It really doesn't look like the Jesus that they know.
00:11:20
Speaker
So how do you talk about about this? Well, I think the really important thing is, is again, here's one of those places where Context makes all the difference. um ah First of all, you know you if you just back up a couple verses before this, it says the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
00:11:42
Speaker
But then also that last passage we just read is really important. you know not you know I'm sure that neither death nor life, angels, rulers, things present, things to come, all of these different things,
00:11:56
Speaker
Nothing in all creation will separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. And and and the the the really hard thing is that when you talk about predestination, our our human inclination is to start with the power of God.
00:12:17
Speaker
And if you start with the power of God and start running that that predestination idea, you will end up in youia in you know in a God who is who is a ah a monster.
00:12:38
Speaker
um But what Paul does here as he uses this word, and and I think is is critically important wherever else the word is used, particularly the Ephesians one passage,
00:12:50
Speaker
um
00:12:55
Speaker
Paul always roots it and embeds it in love.
00:13:01
Speaker
And there's just something that that changes the character or the nature of that word when you use it in that context.
00:13:12
Speaker
Love is is by its very nature, and I think the the proper word to use here is, love is disappointable.
00:13:24
Speaker
Power is not.
00:13:28
Speaker
Um, yeah, I know, I,
00:13:39
Speaker
I can, I can, if if I think about it in terms of power, i'm I'm always going to get what I want, or I'm going to run into something that has more power than me and it's going to deny me what I want.
00:13:52
Speaker
And, um, you know And of course, God's almighty. He's he's omnipotent. he is He's God. And he has there's no one who has got more power than him. And so you come to this inescapable conclusion that that that if predestination is run through power, this must be what God wants. And so you end up with this inescapable conclusion of double predestination.
00:14:18
Speaker
But the but the the if you run it through love, well, yeah, I mean, i can want things, you know, for my children or for the people whom I love and, and they can disappoint me.
00:14:40
Speaker
You know, they can, they can profoundly disappoint me. That doesn't mean my love wasn't strong. That doesn't mean my, My love wasn't valid. it it just, that's the nature of love. Because if I, if I try and, you know, force that issue, you know, if I, if I, if I really want my, my children to behave in a certain way and, and if they, if they are unwilling to do so, and if I you know kind of chain them up in the basement to a radiator and get that behavior, ah you know, from them that I'm looking for, I've long since lost, love left love
00:15:15
Speaker
And so um it's it's really important, I think, that as we read this first part, that that we understand that this is this is something in love. And this is where Luther comes in.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yes. Because very early in Luther's career, he started kind of down the power path with with predestination. And his good friend, martin Philip Melanchthon,
00:15:43
Speaker
pulled him aside and said, Martin, let's think about this. And and he sort of drew out that that idea of what it means to to take predestination through power. And ah and to his credit, Luther went, oh, you're right. and and And really by the end of his career, Luther would hardly talk about predestination.
00:16:05
Speaker
and And he insisted that it really is a beautiful doctrine which belongs in the conversation inside the church. It is a consolation for people who already believe.
00:16:19
Speaker
But as soon as you start talking about people who don't believe, or you start talking to people who don't believe, the concept of predestination will almost immediately slip into the issue of power.
00:16:35
Speaker
And And at that point, he says, you've left the scriptural content. Right, because if we're going to take power as a filter, then it helps in some ways because yeah because love can be discouraged. So bad things happen to good people, o you know how how is that how is God love if he allows those bad things to happen?
00:17:01
Speaker
Right. It's like, okay, well, he doesn't... So it's a whole, I find it, this is, correct me if I'm wrong here. i wasn't, this is more taking a concept and knowing how to apply a systematic thought to it as opposed to a hermeneutical principle solely based out of scripture.
00:17:25
Speaker
And I'm trying to, I'm trying to remember like, is this the whole concept of like grace and forgiveness all throughout scripture? Mm-hmm. um So if i if I've got a question i'm gonna you know about a passage with grace and forgiveness, I can go use scripture to interpret scripture, and I've got a wealth of things.
00:17:44
Speaker
Predestination, there's not really a whole lot there. we can make some pre-supplications or some notions in our head, you know, about how God might think.
00:17:55
Speaker
um But this is where, am I missing something as far as like? Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think i think when you when you've come to this word as ah as an interpreter of scripture, what what you what you want to notice is, okay, one, the word is not super common. Okay, predestination is not a... is not a primary thematic piece of of of scripture.
00:18:23
Speaker
um It's nothing like you get in terms of describing God's work as as family. You know, it' got the love of parent for child or the redemption language or salvation language or atonement language, any of those things. are there You got so much more out there about in in those other metaphorical spheres or those semantic fields of of those terms. um you You don't run into a lot of it. And so you do have to exercise a little bit of humility about it and just say, I'm not going to turn this into a primary lens by which I'm going to read this. So, I mean, there's one hermeneutical principle is that you you just do pay a little attention to how much did God did god actually talk about and And that circles around and goes back to where that thought came from was when you were quoting Luther saying that this topic of conversation is best suited among believers. Yeah. Yeah. But but i instead of like an outreach thing or trying to engage the community or or, or you know.
00:19:35
Speaker
You have we've talked about this before you have to have law in order to have gospel. And so sometimes we do have to speak the truth and isn't just the God loves you it's you did something wrong. But i've for me, I guess, just in the circles, I've grew up in the places I've grown up in. Predestination on has almost always been a ah warning.
00:19:57
Speaker
yeah or You don't want to be that person. You might, so you get to live your life in limbo yeah Well, yeah, and and and and what Luther says about it is that that this word was given to us as as a word of comfort, but when you when you run it through power, you're right, it it leaves you in this, am I really one of the chosen, or am i one of the... one of the ah ah one of those predestined to hell. and and And I might just be kidding myself when I go to church and and you know what I feel and believe in my heart, maybe not, might not be at all what that person next to me is feeling and believing and they're really going to heaven and I'm just kidding myself.
00:20:40
Speaker
and And so you you that that that power-based predestination piece is is is really, you know, potentially, I don't think everybody does it this way, but potentially becomes a ah really terrible thing for people.
00:20:57
Speaker
if it's if If my faith is already doomed, then why does any of this matter? Which then takes us back to when we're preaching on Romans 8, have all of Romans 8 in front of you because Paul already talked about this. Yes, yes yes it's exactly. You've got have that whole piece in there. And ah and that that this word is is if taken in isolation from the rest of the chapter ends up becoming really, really almost saying the opposite of what Paul is trying to say.
00:21:32
Speaker
it ends up It ends up becoming a word which is is malleable or twistable and it becomes you know it becomes sort of at ah you know at at a 90 degree angle to what he wants. It it it just doesn't fit.
00:21:45
Speaker
and um And I think the other hermeneutical principle to apply to this is the fact that that this whole thing, this word is is embedded into this conversation, which is all about love.
00:21:58
Speaker
and and when and And so now predestination um really becomes, you know, if you think about ah ah yeah your beloved saying, I've always loved you.
00:22:15
Speaker
and And I knew from the moment I saw you. yeah If you think about predestination in terms of those sorts of phrases, that I knew from the moment I saw you that I was going to marry, you know or or I knew from the moment I saw you that that that that my you had my heart.
00:22:37
Speaker
the those are not the Those are also really kind of predestination sorts of words. but they don't feel scary You know what I mean?
God's Unbreakable Love Amidst Suffering
00:22:50
Speaker
and And they really work best in kind of that hindsight kind of a kind of a way. and And that's what Paul is really trying to do with this word is he's really saying to these people in Rome and really to all of his readers who, I mean, Paul understands his reader is is somebody who already believes in Jesus.
00:23:10
Speaker
He's saying, God has known you and known about you forever. and And he's always had this in mind, to do what he's doing in your life right now.
00:23:22
Speaker
that is That has always been God's mind. God didn't stumble into this. ah God had this in mind. Paul is not talking about.
00:23:33
Speaker
that person out there who does not believe, who is alienated from God, who is, who he's just not talking about that person. He's talking about you as, as somebody who believes. And, and, and, and this is, again, I think the, the most, the, the, the clearest example is sort of that, you know, that, that, ah that, that husband or wife who, who, who, who looks at their, at their spouse and just says, I, I knew from the moment I met you that I was going to marry you. And that is that is that that that is ah a really beautiful thing to be able to say or a really wonderful thing to say. And, um and and you know, it may not even...
00:24:19
Speaker
in In human terms, it probably isn't entirely true, but it feels that way when you say it, right? Right. You definitely don't want to say it the first time you met someone. Yeah, yeah. If you say it the first time, you walk in and say, oh, I'm going to marry you.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, you're going to get, they're going to call the cops. Right. And they should. you know somebody said that to my daughter, walked up to her right now and said that to my daughter, I'd say run away.
00:24:46
Speaker
yes but But yet I would hope that when she's been married for 20 years, her husband would look at her and say, you know the first time I saw you, I knew i I wanted to marry you. And I knew that you know that that you would be me that you would be my spouse.
00:25:04
Speaker
I would hope that. that she would have that kind of a loving relationship. And I think that's what Paul is really doing here with this word on predestination. it's It's really rooted in and sort bathed in this idea of of God's love, um you know which which then really comes to really cast all of these other things that oftentimes flow in here. This this passage, um when you read it in power, really becomes a terrible passage.
00:25:35
Speaker
But when you read it in love, it becomes a completely different in and glorious passage. I mean, even just these first words, we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good.
00:25:48
Speaker
Now, that. in love is is is a is is a confidence that, oh, you know, if I've been if i've endured a tragedy, if i mean if I'm in the midst of of some moment of suffering in my life, I know that that I have not, you know, been cast outside of God's loving care.
00:26:11
Speaker
um But for for the person who runs this through power, you know, all of a sudden you're either saying all things work together for good. Well, this didn't turn out good. Does this mean I'm not in God's love?
00:26:25
Speaker
Or, you know, you you you have this you have this horrible situation where, or this horrible thing where, and and I've seen people do this and I i just want to yell at them, please don't. But, you know, you're at a you're at the funeral of a child or you're at you're at some, just this moment of deep human,
00:26:47
Speaker
Passionate suffering. And somebody will come up and say. It's all in God's plan.
00:26:54
Speaker
You know. ah that That this is all according to God's plan.
00:27:00
Speaker
And. You know.
00:27:03
Speaker
and when When I've been there. And people have said that to me. i kind of want to say. Well this plan sucks. ah This is a terrible plan. um and and And I think when you when you posit the idea that, no, God is disappointable,
00:27:20
Speaker
that that god is that God's love means that he he he is he is ah he is able to stand with you at the grave of your child and weep over death with you, just as he wept over the death of his son.
00:27:39
Speaker
That changes that. All things work for the good of those who love Jesus. That that now um that now you you have this God who who in the midst of your of your worst moments of your life, he hasn't he hasn't abandoned you.
00:27:57
Speaker
which is Which is oftentimes the the great temptation that Satan throws at us in those moments is that God has left us. That this is a sign that God doesn't care.
00:28:11
Speaker
potentially It feels that way. Yeah, it feels that way. yeah It really does. It feels that way.
Trusting God Through Challenges
00:28:16
Speaker
And and i think and i I think what I don't want to do is say to somebody, well, you're feeling is illegitimate.
00:28:22
Speaker
It's not. It does feel that way. But I think what Paul is talking here is saying is saying is really saying um that that, hey, you know god is God is still with you.
00:28:36
Speaker
And he loves you nonetheless, despite what has gone on right now yeah and so and And I think that's exactly where he's going with this, starting at verse 31 and following these next these next lines. you know's This is Paul saying, okay, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. He has loved us from the very beginning. he has always been He's committed himself to us.
00:29:00
Speaker
So now you'll let the world throw at us its worst. you know Let the world do whatever it can. You know, if God is for us, yeah who is really going to stand? Who's going to be against us?
00:29:12
Speaker
You know, who could imagine, um you know, somebody resisting God? You know, who who could imagine somebody, somebody ah ah ah you know, opposing? you know So if I'm on team God,
00:29:30
Speaker
who who can be against us? I mean, he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. Will he not also with him graciously give us all things? But notice what what Paul does right there. He says, okay, God's on your team, but please notice something. How does God work?
00:29:47
Speaker
He gave up his son for you. God works through a cross. That isn't Paul saying, oh, if God's on your team, that means everything's going to go really well.
00:30:02
Speaker
No, what that means is that that thing that is right now feeling so overwhelming to you, that will not have the last word.
00:30:12
Speaker
Just as Jesus being God, being the Son of God, and and being holy and pure, that didn't mean he didn't die. it meant he rose. He still he still suffered the cross. And And the and the Christian doesn't doesn't read this properly and say, oh, that means I don't suffer.
00:30:37
Speaker
No, that means my suffering has been transformed. And if you go all the way back to the beginning of chapter 5, that's what Paul said. know, we rejoice in our sufferings.
00:30:50
Speaker
Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? Remember, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. It's God who justifies us. I mean, if God declares you innocent, who's going to who's there is no Supreme Court.
00:31:04
Speaker
to and There's no there's no court of appeals in Supreme Court to ah to to to contradict that.
00:31:13
Speaker
know, who is to condemn you? it's I mean, Jesus died for you. Who can condemn you now? More than that, he was raised. And he's at the right hand of God interceding for you. you that that that that Who's going to make a charge stick now and when the one who died for you and rose again is wielding all of heaven's power and is personally praying for you to God? Who's going to accuse you now?
00:31:51
Speaker
You know, not even the devil himself can lodge an accusation against you that's going to stick. That's going to stick. Yeah, that's going to stick.
00:32:03
Speaker
Nothing can stick. You know, I mean, ah I think we oftentimes um ah confuse what a judge does and what a jury does.
00:32:16
Speaker
All right. Um, In fact, um we we tend to think of a judge as somebody who who who is um who is declaring guilt or innocence.
00:32:28
Speaker
and And that's not actually what a judge does you know in a try in a criminal case trial. It's actually the evidence that does that. And if it's a jury trial, it's the jury that then reads the evidence and says, this is what the evidence says.
00:32:45
Speaker
The role of a judge in that context is always to mete out a measured punishment.
00:32:55
Speaker
That's what judges do. They make sure that ah the punishment fits the crime. you know and And so I always think about, you know, the devil comes and, you know, and and and you if you imagine this scene, you know, you're kind of in, It's the last day, and and it's this very long court proceeding because everybody is on trial. And, you know, the the the devil comes in as the prosecutor, and he sort of throws on the screen every sin you've ever done.
00:33:28
Speaker
and And Jesus looks at you, and he rolls up his hands, he rolls up the sleeves on his robe, and he puts out sticks out his hand here, you know, and he says, you see those holes? That looks like punishment enough. What do you think?
00:33:42
Speaker
And um yeah and and that that, you know, there's no no sin which the devil can throw there that is going to be bigger than the holes the judge has in his hands and feet.
00:33:55
Speaker
and And so, you know, what who's going to condemn? You know, the the judge himself, the one who sits at God's right hand, is the one who died for you, who was risen for you. And and today he's praying you.
00:34:14
Speaker
Be confident.
00:34:18
Speaker
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? You know, what's going to stop? What's going to come between that? And you see, here's where where I say you've just got to read that predestination word in love.
00:34:31
Speaker
Because that's where Paul goes with who shall separate us from the love of Christ.
00:34:43
Speaker
It's just not going to happen.
00:34:46
Speaker
um
00:34:50
Speaker
Shall tribulation? ye Shall a really bad Shall distress? Persecution? what if what if What if the whole world falls apart and that we don't have enough to eat there's a famine?
00:35:02
Speaker
no what What if we lose everything? and Some tornado rips everything from us. What if there's a war? And there's soldiers running around with swords.
00:35:15
Speaker
Paul says, you know for your sake we're being, this quote was the one that when I was a kid, always threw me. It's like, for your sake we're being killed all the day long. We are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.
00:35:30
Speaker
um But I think what Paul is really saying to us there is that, you know what? You can't measure God's love on your circumstance.
00:35:42
Speaker
You can't measure the love of God on some scale of how many blessings you have today.
00:35:50
Speaker
You can only measure God's love in a cross when God himself suffered and died for you. That's the only place um you can you can ever measure God's love.
00:36:06
Speaker
And oh, he says, in all these things, no. danger, famine, sword, all of this stuff, death itself. i'm more than a I'm more than a conqueror.
00:36:18
Speaker
and And here's another place where I think we sometimes kind of mess this this passage up a little bit. we we we are We're just too content to ah were just too content to to to be a conqueror.
00:36:34
Speaker
the Paul says, yeah don't settle for being a conqueror. Don't settle for conquering this thing. a being of you know conquering danger, famine, and so living in in in plenty and in security and and and conquering those those enemies. Don't settle for conquering those things.
00:36:53
Speaker
You're more than a conqueror.
00:36:56
Speaker
You're something better than that. and And I'm sure that neither death nor life, okay,
00:37:07
Speaker
These essential things. like So not only death, but also life itself. Not an angel. Not some ruler. um Whether that's earthly or or spiritual rule. I don't know.
00:37:22
Speaker
Things present. So the things going on right now around me. Things to come. Not things that I'm worried about that are going to happen tomorrow. I mean, you know.
00:37:35
Speaker
Some nuclear war or global warming or whatever.
00:37:42
Speaker
Not height nor depth. I mean, there's nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
00:37:55
Speaker
From the very beginning, God looked at you and said, I've always loved
00:38:03
Speaker
I've loved you since the day I spoke you into existence. Yeah. yeah I've loved you since that moment. And yeah, this this this passage is is the source of, i mean, i don't know do you read this often at funerals, Matt?
00:38:21
Speaker
That very last part. I know it's in our... In the funeral liturgy, right? Yeah. yeah And it's oftentimes one of the optional readings that you can can read as a scripture reading that day.
00:38:35
Speaker
Yeah. i mean it's it' yeah i ah when When I was at the seminary, um I was advised, you know, they said, if you ever want to know what a church really teaches, what they really believe, attend a funeral.
00:38:54
Speaker
Because if you go on a regular Sunday, it could be, i don't know, education Sunday, it could be, you know, could be, you know, the the you know part seven of a 12-part sermon series you know and you're only getting a little bit of it um but go to a funeral um you know and and and that's where you really discover what a church believes when you when you are in when you and the people of that you were there with you're confronting death and the in the reality of
00:39:28
Speaker
of of of of the cross taking shape in your life, that's when you really get what people believe.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yes. I'm trying to think how many funerals I went to before. it was just my mom's funeral. Now that I think about it, it's the only one I ever attended before becoming a pastor.
00:39:57
Speaker
So i'm obviously not a whole lot of experience. And my mom's funeral wasn't done within the LCMS. I had no clue what the LCMS was or a Lutheran even at that point in time. yeah But having officiated numerous funerals since then, the number of times that we get guests coming up, reacting to that last thing that you were just sharing yeah because for for us the goal in every single sermon is Christ crucified that's just plain and simple but for that funeral message especially when you have a whole wealth of world views on what happens with death and and we've been to all those different types of funerals and and there's there's it's not just that they I mean if they conquered something it's just that simple
00:40:48
Speaker
was a triumph over it, but not the eternal triumph. Yep. And yeah, that so many times, just's wow, I've never heard Jesus preach that way before, Pastor. Right.
00:41:03
Speaker
Oh, we've got services at nine o'clock on Sunday. They're not all funeral messages, but
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah, when i but I'm feeling particularly, oh, I don't know, um cynical about these things i when I arrive i will I will oftentimes set my watch if yeah if I have a digital my digital watch on and and I'll just start the timer and I'll hit stop at the first mention of Jesus
00:41:40
Speaker
it's shocking how long sometimes it takes yes it is shocking how long that can sometimes take
00:41:51
Speaker
um now And and that's that's really that's really too bad because when people come in grief, you know, talking about how good the person is or talking about, you know, um what whatever you else you might want to talk about, you know, it just seems like,
00:42:16
Speaker
that those aren't answers to to what I'm feeling right now. They're not they're not actually they're not actually addressing the the the ragged hole in my heart that that this person's death has created. and
00:42:30
Speaker
And i need i need to hear i need to hear that good news. And in this passage is is just ah an incredible summation of it. And it's it's unfortunate that some of the words in there, you know it's kind of like really powerful medicine if you misuse it becomes really powerful poison.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yes. And it's it's unfortunate that some of the words in there can do that. And so, I mean, I think if you're preaching on this text, you just gotta, you just gotta to approach it with care and you, and you just have to be aware of those things and, and, and just let, let it be, let it be known.
00:43:08
Speaker
Everything Paul says here is geared toward that last phrase. Nothing, And all creation is going to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus.
00:43:20
Speaker
well and then and And in the meantime, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. Yeah. Going back those first two verses from the end of the last one. Right. if If I'm double predestined to hell, then why would Paul be telling me the Spirit's helping in my weakness?
00:43:35
Speaker
It doesn't matter at that point point, right? Yeah. that's Yeah, yeah. My weakness is is immaterial to to the real to the real problem here. Yeah. well
00:43:50
Speaker
There's a lot here. There is. No surprise. There
00:43:57
Speaker
there is. Yeah.
00:44:00
Speaker
but What are you thinking about? you preaching this text?
00:44:06
Speaker
i'm I'm debating preaching this one. Leaning strongly for towards it because it would be the first...
00:44:16
Speaker
First time I've had a chance to do it with this congregation. And so I see it as a, I mean, hopefully it's not, well, no we want to be a funeral service on Sunday. We'd separate those two out.
00:44:30
Speaker
But that part of of who who are we as the body of Christ gathered in this place? you and And Paul just describes it, that.
00:44:41
Speaker
But i i think I think it's actually really good to preach these funeral these kind of funeral typical texts in in the regular rotation because that kind of lets you come at it maybe because, i mean, funerals are are times and places where grief is is really just foremost in people's minds. And and sometimes that that changes the way you hear what's being said a little bit, that when you can kind of take a step back from it,
00:45:08
Speaker
And you can you can look at these things. You're you're almost almost inoculating people for the next time they go to the funeral so that they're able to hear these words maybe the next time. i think i'm I'm really thinking that I might do something on on that phrase more than conquerors.
00:45:24
Speaker
you know And and my my few my my my sermon text, might I'm thinking might be, you know um don't settle for being a conqueror.
00:45:36
Speaker
Don't settle for for being a ah ah merely somebody who has conquered the that list of problems, but rather be be settled but but rather be filled with Christ and be something more than that.
00:45:56
Speaker
What exactly that is, I've got to pray about, think about. you know but that's that's That's kind of my my my handle I'm thinking about working with this on that one. I might just have to take a trip that weekend and work at St. Mike's. I'm working at St. Mike's. Thank i you, Ben.
00:46:18
Speaker
Cool. Well, hey, you can always catch it on. We live stream the service. You can always catch it. Not true. True. And technically, I could live stream it probably by the time I'm done with my morning activities.
00:46:35
Speaker
Cool. so All right, Matthew. It's good to talk to you. As always, a great joy and blessing. I look forward to doing this again next week. All righty. God bless you. Take care.
00:46:46
Speaker
You too. Bye-bye.