Transcript
Speaker: Greetings and welcome to another episode of This Sunday Podcast. I'm Pastor Matthew Hardaway. Alongside me is Pastor Philip Brandt. As always, we take a look at some of the readings for an upcoming Sunday in the church year as a devotional help for the church and also as a sermon help for those that will be preaching potentially on those texts.
Speaker: I'm taking a bit of a break for a couple of weeks. Happy to be back. I'm not happy for the reason why, but Roger Brant and Phil have been in our prayers, both mine personally and and definitely the church here in in Connecticut. But this Sunday we are going to mostly be looking at the readings for the 12th Sunday after Pentecost. Well, not the readings, but Romans chapter 11 from the 12th Sunday after Pentecost. This would be for August 9th, I believe. Also, we're going to take a step back for a couple minutes and look at the passage from Romans prior to that.
Speaker: It's just too good to pass up. So... With that, as I've been scrolling and lost the prayer, I found it. As always, I'll open up the call out of the day for the 12th Sunday after Pentecost, and then I'll let Dr. Brandt lead off our discussion.
Speaker: We pray. Almighty and everlasting Father, you give your children many blessings, even though we are undeserving. In every trial and temptation, grant us steadfast confidence in your loving kindness and mercy.
Speaker: Through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever. Amen.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: Well, Matthew, as you said, a difficult passage. um and and And in in a difficult time. um Thank all of the viewers and others who have heard about and who have been praying for me as I grieve the loss of the unexpected, very unexpected loss of my wife in July of 26 here.
Speaker: And so, but it's time to get back to this for God's people and God's kingdom and God's word go on and his comfort is great. um And and these these words are actually ah these words are actually really important words of comfort we have today.
Speaker: um we We missed last week, and I just wanna take just a minute to ah to to think a little bit about that, because it plays into what we're talking about right here.
Speaker: Last week, Paul talked all about promise, and that was in chapter 10. And it's that very iconic passage that so many so many of my of our viewers probably are are are are intimately familiar with. I mean, it's got there's there's confirmation verses in here. you know there's There's passages that that are that are just incredibly important for for the way we understand how the kingdom of God works and how things things work, particularly in in chapter 10, verse 14. How are they to call on him whom they've not believed? How are they to believe in him whom they've not heard? And and how are they to hear without someone to preach?
Speaker: And how are they to preach unless they are sent? How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news? They have not all obeyed, but they... ah But for Isaiah says, Lord is who has believed what he has heard from us.
Speaker: So faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ. um This part of it, and in particular the the verses that are right before it, are are so filled with this this this active presence, this this this promissory word of God that comes to us through the proclamation of the of the good news. you know Where somebody walks up to us, you know as so many people walked up to me over the last you weeks and have said, she will live again.
Speaker: and and spoke the promise to us. And and and what what what one of the things that I think Paul really sees in here is that that promise heard is itself a creative word.
Speaker: And it is a word which creates the thing that the the trust and the relationship, and it sustains that trust and relationship in the person who hears it.
Speaker: um and And Paul is really leaning into that because in this in these chapters 9 through 11, he's dealing with his pain point, which which is which is the rejection of his of his message by by the very people that are his home, that are his his his kinsmen according to the flesh, as he calls them, his his fellow um his fellow descendants of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, his brothers, sisters, cousins in
Speaker: in in in the flesh, and they've rejected him. They've rejected the the message that has been proclaimed. Not all of them by any means, so but so many of them have.
Speaker: that that you know And paul Paul is wrestling with that. and And I i really, you you you have to remember that what Paul is doing in the letter to the Romans is he's really making a ah case to the congregation in Rome of why they should support him.
Speaker: why they should allow him to use their congregation, their people in Rome as a launching point for a new mission into into Spain.
Speaker: and And what he really wants to, but and and so he has to wrestle with this most important question because they need to know how does he answer these questions?
Speaker: How does he deal with with ah ah with these issues? And I think in taken in aggregate, Paul speaks words of tremendous hope and and also words of of deep love and and affection, even for people who have rejected him and rejected his message. and And he has, you know, he says, I would gladly give my life if I could only get them to to hear and believe this. um this is These are words that are really rooted in love.
Speaker: and ah And And that's, I think, something that we as ah as a Christian community sometimes kind of forgot. you know um and And the words we're going to hear in just a few minutes from from Romans chapter 11 are context.
Speaker: And that has twenty twenty six in a completely different context you know and that that has that has a that has affected the way we hear and we read these things.
Speaker: Because oh you know you you can go back to Martin Luther and and and and he wrote some things about those about the Jews you know that that have been really unfortunate and how they've been read and heard by people and and And Luther himself was rooted in a period when there were these spasms of this anti-Semitic persecution, ah pogroms and and expulsions of the Jews and things like that that were going on. And and yeah and he was liable and susceptible to all of those things. I never want to excuse you know Luther's...
Speaker: um Luther's behavior and the words that he says on this. I don't need to defend him. I think I'm i'm perfectly willing to say he was wrong. Right. and And this is something Jesus needed to die for because Luther was a sinner, too.
Speaker: um But what's oftentimes happened with this is that that that kind of a. wrestle with the anti-Semitic part of of ah of that Western tradition, of that Western culture over the last several hundred years has ah really affected the way we read these passages here in chapters 9 through 11 of Paul's letter to the Romans.
Speaker: um And that's only become exacerbated in the years since World War two
Speaker: know when I think there's a lot of times where
Speaker: ah want us to say naysayers or are those that are unabent maybe is a better way of putting it, maybe there's not a good way against the gospel hello ah across the board. they They are quick to point out inconsistencies or or you know flaws within the church, flaws with God, if God was perfect, and this, and why not this? And, oh, Luther was the great reformer. Oh, well, look at what he wrote. What a great reformer he was. And they're pointing to, some ways, as an exception,
Speaker: to what Luther wrote, and they're missing the whole point. And somebody, they're actually arguing their own point for almost everything Luther was writing. that no the Yeah, Luther was sinful, and he made mistakes.
Speaker: All the more reason why he needed the gospel just like we do. yeahp so where Whereas they try to make the exception the thing that debunks anything Luther wrote or Nicodemus in Scripture.
Speaker: and Sometimes it's the exception to the world that actually highlights the very thing that they don't like. Right. Yeah. i it's it's a ah ah it It is really unfortunate that this has become...
Speaker: this this kind of ah of a of a football in ah in a political and culture war and and and and other things that has oftentimes really obscured the the much larger truth of what's going on with this. And, you know, Luther taken out of context is, is of course, going to say and do things that that you don't like. But I think even in context, Luther's words in some of his writings were were really believe sinful and wrong.
Speaker: But um but what's what's really happened really since, of course, the Holocaust during World War two is that that a lot of a lot of Christians have really taken these words from Romans 11, we're going to read in just a minute, um and they have, they have ah they they kind of bracketed them out and and almost almost refused to wrestle with them.
Speaker: Because they're they they that that shame, that um that reality of of ah of a widespread and deeply held antisemitism, which by the way, was not only European, it also was in the United States, um and remains, and there there remain antisemitic elements to this day. And you know and i i I reject them.
Speaker: yeah I think that's wrong. um ah but But because of that that reality and and almost the the ah the nature of anti-Semitism is kind of this third rail for people.
Speaker: They want to stay away from it. That they've They've really taken some of these passages and and they've almost refused to talk about it. Let's listen to what what Paul says here. This is the reading. Now, now this is this is an excised version. and And I would really encourage anybody who's doing this, read the whole of chapter 11.
Speaker: you You really need the whole thing. But our reading for Sunday is going to be, is it starts off in chapter 11, verse 1. And Paul says, I ask them, has God rejected his people?
Speaker: By no means. Notice that sounds so that's exactly the same thing he was doing in chapters 6 and 7. um By no means. I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
Speaker: God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. am living proof of it, says Paul. Right? God hasn't rejected me. Look at, I rejected him in in my persecution of the church, but he sought me out on a road to Damascus and turned me around.
Speaker: God hasn't rejected me.
Speaker: Verse 13, after several verses of kind of talking about how and and and and talking about the relationship of the promise, the people of the promise, the Old Testament people to to god He says now in verse 13, now I'm speaking to you Gentiles.
Speaker: So he turns to to address the the non-Jewish reader. That would be most of us. And as much then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous and thus save some of them.
Speaker: For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? and And so Paul says, you know, yeah, I'm going to really keep pushing into the Gentiles here because I know this really bothers them.
Speaker: And I know that that bothering them is going to make them, it's going to open their heart in a way. Because when your heart is roiled up, a lot of times it's it it allows you to see the world a little differently.
Speaker: Okay? It's when I'm complacent and I'm sure of myself and I have no challenge to myself, I don't learn and grow much then. But Paul seems to be saying, yeah, I'm going to do this because I know it's going to incite them. I know it's going to bother them.
Speaker: Then we skip a few more verses where he talks a little bit about this. and But then in verse 28, he says, as regards the gospel, this good news, this this this proclamation that Jesus is the Messiah, promised to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and David and the prophets, are that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament promise, that his resurrection from the dead,
Speaker: demonstrates that he is the fulfillment of those promises and that that is the answer to the human problem. Jesus of Nazareth.
Speaker: Regards the gospel, in their rejection of it, they're enemies for your sake. Okay, he gets that. But as regards election, as regards God's choice, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. You can't stop loving them, even though they kind of affect to be your enemy.
Speaker: I mean, Paul had a good reason to say they're my enemy. mean, if you read 2 Corinthians chapter 12, and he goes through that, or the 11th, he goes through that laundry list of all the things that he has suffered.
Speaker: You know, i mean, five times he was beaten with rods, forty tall with a staff 40 times, saved one by the Jews. You know, he's been kicked out of synagogues. He's been harassed and chased.
Speaker: it was It was a group of it was a group of of of agitated Jewish synagogue members who stoned him to and and left him for dead in chapter 14 of Acts.
Speaker: I mean, that's just not something you forget, you know? Oh, well, okay. Let's not quibble about who stoned whom, you know, to quote Monty Python there. yeah You just don't forget about that.
Speaker: But he says, I can never call them my enemies. They're always beloved. They're always people whom I love. and And he enjoins that upon us as Gentiles, too.
Speaker: The gifts, the calling of God, they're irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God, but have now received mercy because of their disobedience. In other words, you know one one way to read this is that that that they are...
Speaker: The reason Paul is out in among the Gentiles is because he's getting kicked out of the synagogues. okay that's That pushes Paul out into that Gentile world. of and That's brought about the this's the foundation of these congregations.
Speaker: So they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you, they may also receive mercy. other words, If you are, if if the gospel came to you because they were disobedient, but now
Speaker: being disobedient, guess what they are?
Speaker: You know, I mean, it's it's kind of, it's kind of that theme that runs through the gospels over and over again. Jesus came for the sinful losers. Right?
Speaker: yeah You that passage in Matthew 18 where Jesus says, yeah, you know, if your brother sins against you, can confront him. If he won't listen, bring a couple more people. And if he doesn't listen to them, take it to the church. And if he won't listen to the church, well, then you treat him like a like a sinner and a tax collector.
Speaker: And then when when you sit back and look at you, well, how does Jesus treat those sinners and tax collectors? He eats with them. He eats with them. He goes out and talks to them and he forgives them. And so so what they do is they they're they're putting themselves into the very path of the of the good news about Jesus Christ.
Speaker: And so it it it it it doesn't mean that you reject them, but it means that you love them all the more. Yeah.
Speaker: For God is consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. And that is a really interesting way for Paul to see that.
Speaker: You know, that i I got this actually from a friend of mine in ministry, but I've used it several times. and It's not so much true anymore, but it used to be when you would go to the grocery store,
Speaker: and And you would get there, there'd be all these magazines there, and they were all the tabloids. National Enquirer and all of these kinds of things. And there were always this, ah this um ah you know, all of the scandals.
Speaker: You know, this person's having an affair there. there All of these, you know, terrible things going on in the world. And my friend, you know, he'd go to sometimes have to go to the grocery store either before or after church and still have his collar on.
Speaker: All right. and And he said more than once he'd be in line and he'd be looking, he'd glance at the stuff and and the checker would look at him and assume he was a Roman Catholic priest and go, oh, oh, I'm so sorry, Father.
Speaker: didn't, you know, that you have to. And my friend, my friend by fred would say, oh, no, no, no oh no, no. Don't worry about it. Do you know what this is? And he'd point to all of those, all of the tabloids and he'd say, it's job security.
Speaker: a I'm never going to run out of sins to forgive. I promise. That's my job. I forgive sins. Look, I have job security. but I thought that was a great way to look at, you know, just the brokenness of this world.
Speaker: You know, that that as ah as ah as a Christian, and particularly here, here's these people who, you know, inexplicably should, you know, these are the people who had the word of God.
Speaker: They should have recognized who Jesus is, welcomed him, and said, you are Messiah. And yet their disobedience ultimately became the very mechanism of the cross.
Speaker: That's how Jesus ended up there, to die dying for the sins of the world. Even there they're they're their deepest antipathy, which resulted in this this horrible and horrific murder,
Speaker: of the one innocent man who ever lived. You know, this great breach of justice. you know
Speaker: Here's this man who's done nothing wrong. He's healed the sick. He's opened the eyes of the blind. So they killed him. you know um This is this horrible, sinful breach of everything that is right in the world.
Speaker: That's become the mechanism of salvation. and and And Paul is really, really good at applying that, I think, to to the you know to this really thorny problem of the fact that his is fellow kinsmen, according to the flesh, have not gotten on board with ah with ah jesus with the messianic Jesus,
Speaker: movement, you know, the the the the the the good news. They've rejected it. yeah and And all Paul can see there is, oh, look, more for more forgiveness for them.
Speaker: yeah Rather than saying, um oh, now, okay, they had their chance, now we cut them off kind of a thing. um He just won't do that. and and and I think that's that is just super, super important.
Speaker: reminds me one of my favorite well my dad would say this was his song to me and for most of my life love without end by george straight and it's the the last verse um oh where was it
Speaker: So, ah you know, the boy that goes to home from school one day and gets in a fight, as he's expecting his father to be upset with him, his father says, dude, yeah, you messed up, but I love you. Mm-hmm. And the very last line, last night I dreamed I died and stood outside those pearly gates when suddenly I realized there must be some mistake. If they knew half the things I'd done, they'd never let me in. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And then somewhere on the other side, I heard these words again, let me tell you the secret about my father's love. And daddies don't just love their children every now and again, it's a love without end. m Amen.
Speaker: and then And the reality is he knows everything you've ever done and more. Knows it better than you and loves you anyway. Right. and And we can't, and from an ASNA standpoint,
Speaker: what Another way of maybe looking at this that it relates to, but since you and I are Gentiles and not Jewish,
Speaker: it's it's still, you can't experience the gospel without your law or your sin, the law being knowledge, your sin. that They go hand in hand. That's why, as Lutherans, we're still big on law and gospel.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. You can't just have one or the other. And we don't like the law part. We don't like being called out on it. Definitely, you know, sinful Matthew doesn't like being reminded that he screwed up. Right.
Speaker: And he doesn't like and he surely doesn't enjoy the consequences of of that law visiting upon him. Oh, no, no, no, no. And that's probably most of the reason why we don't want to acknowledge it because we don't want to do the consequences.
Speaker: But, and even in doing so, acknowledging it, we get to experience God's grace, his mercy, his love.
Speaker: And so I can see where paul what Paul is in some ways doing. is Is, you know, yeah, okay, they're still my brothers. I still love them. My heart aches for me.
Speaker: Because they they they shouldn't shouldn't have gotten into the fight at school. they they They shouldn't have stolen the apple off the teacher's desk. they shouldn't They knew better. They had it all. And it has been given to them for 1,500 years.
Speaker: o These words, these promises, and and yet here they are. Okay, well, I can't force it on you. So no so there's... I just want to broach...
Speaker: you know i I think there's there's there's ah there's a couple of things going on. it and And one of them is that that in in the in kind of the modern interpretational world with ah with this is you know because of what's happened in the last 80 years of a of of human history you know and and more. you know I'm talking about World War II and the Holocaust here and and ah all all of the things that have gone on. is that that ah I think a lot of Christians have
Speaker: have um kind of adopted this idea that almost like there's like two pathways to heaven, you know that that the Jewish people kind of got their own. And if they follow the covenant and the Torah and all those things, that they also have a path to heaven that's kind of ah without Jesus.
Speaker: And that the Christians, the Gentiles, we've got this Jesus path. into the favor of God. you know and And I think a lot of people would cite this this line that was right here in this in this very piece is um ah that the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Speaker: and that they are and And so means that that that you know it's it's for a lot of a lot of Christians would really argue that it's it's inappropriate for us to evangelize to speak the good news of Jesus to a Jewish person.
Speaker: um and And I think there's a lot of Jews who would say the same thing.
Speaker: yeah I mean, I think they're that that's that's true. i mean that that that would kind of that And that there's sort of been this sort of of a detente in or ah or a ah a tacit agreement that a lot of people have reached in this is that I can go and and be a missionary to all kinds of different people. I can preach the good news and stuff. But as soon as I encounter them and and somebody says, well I'm Jewish, you know, then I have to be quiet.
Speaker: and And I don't think that's what Paul is saying here at all. I do not think that's what Paul is saying here at all. That that paul Paul is absolutely saying that, yeah is is affirming that the salvation of his kinsmen according to the flesh,
Speaker: happens ah happens according to happens according to Jesus. you know there There is only one name under heaven by which men might be saved, and that is Jesus of Nazareth. You can't get around that fact.
Speaker: um when But this passage is really interesting, Matthew. i I think I've mentioned this before, but this is the place where this...
Speaker: this book that I read not too long ago really plays out. And if somebody is is really interested, if you're ah if you're interested in a deep read into into understanding this, I just want to talk about this for a few minutes here. um It's this guy by the name of Jason Staples. He's an academic at the University of North Carolina, or North Carolina State, excuse me, and a religion studies guy.
Speaker: um And it's called Paul and the Resurrection of Israel. I think we've talked about this before, haven't Yeah, yeah. yeah this is the place This is the place where what he's talking about is um ah ah is is where he's... he's ah ah that This is the passage that that his thesis is really attempting to make sense of.
Speaker: yeah And and this this whole notion where... And I just want to read through this quick and show you a little bit about what that would mean. Right, right? Has God rejected his people? Well, what rejection are we talking about here? because um Because according to Staples' argument, that the ah in the ah in the first century, when when people use the term Israel, most of the time, they're not talking about that as a synonym for Jews.
Speaker: They're talking about Judah and Israel.
Speaker: And so Judah was that one tribe in the south where which which persevered, after which which lasted the longest, but Israel were the 10 Northern tribes.
Speaker: And of course, if you're a student of this at all, you know that the Assyrians come in in the eighth century and they take them off into an exile, but it's a brutal exile. They get scattered among the Gentiles.
Speaker: And they culturally and effectively disappear. They get just absorbed. And so you have almost none of those other 10 tribes.
Speaker: We get a little inkling there's still a handful of them around. I think ah ah um if you remember in in in the birth narrative when Jesus is brought into the temple with Simeon and then there's Hannah the prophet. The prophetess is there, Anna.
Speaker: It says she's of the tribe of Asher.
Speaker: um And Paul here even says, by no means, I myself am an Israelite. Notice he doesn't say I'm a Jew because he's not actually a Jew.
Speaker: Paul is a member of the tribe of Benjamin. Jews are of the tribe of Judah. So he he says, I'm an Israelite. I'm not Jewish.
Speaker: um I'm a member of that tribe. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.
Speaker: Is Paul making a statement there about the exile in the 8th century?
Speaker: In other words, is he is he saying something about that act of judgment, which from Paul's perspective is like 800 years earlier?
Speaker: um and And that's what Staples is arguing in this really interesting book. that um that that that's what Paul is actually talking about there.
Speaker: that That he's saying, oh, wait a minute, no. Did God actually reject his Old Testament people 800 years ago when he cast those 10 tribes into into exile?
Speaker: and And you can argue these all know there's a remnant, the Southern tribes are around, you got Paul, of course you got a little bit of Benjamin left, you got it you got some other other tribal people there, but are other members of the tribes, but but Paul would say no. or What Staples would assert is that Paul's saying no.
Speaker: That in fact, um what God was doing by scattering the Northern 10 tribes among the Gentiles was fulfilling through this act of judgment the promise he had made to Abraham that he would be a blessing to all the families of the earth.
Speaker: And that now that Messiah has come, now that Jesus has come, what God is doing is is fulfilling the promises he made through guys like Jeremiah, in which Jeremiah said that he would restore both Israel and Judah, clear references to north and south,
Speaker: And that what Paul is doing by bringing the Gentiles in is in fact restoring the lost.
Speaker: that that And and and there's there's a there's a little passage you can skip over right here. And I just want to draw your attention to it. um it's It's verse 11 and 12, right before the the that next verse, 13, that we have in our readings.
Speaker: I asked, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means. That wasn't the purpose of this. Okay. um Rather, through their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Speaker: Because in the days of, of of you know, Jeroboam and and Elijah and Elisha, all of these people stumbled and they ended up going into exile.
Speaker: Through their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles. God sowed them among the Gentiles so that in keeping his promise to those people to bring them home, he brings everybody.
Speaker: So as to make Israel jealous, salvation has come to the Gentiles who is to make Israel jealous. Now, if their trespass means riches for the world and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles,
Speaker: how much more will their full inclusion mean? And so it's ah it's a fascinating thesis. I am not sure, as I've said before, that I fully concur with Staples. i There's parts of it that ah don't quite work for me, but yet it is really something I've i've really appreciated because he's he's taken very seriously some passages from the Old Testament, Jeremiah 3, for example, if you want to look at it, that are that are, you know, it's really compelling in some respects.
Speaker: This idea that that that what Paul is is is has got more than simply his kind the contemporary rejection of Jesus and and and and Paul's message in mind, that he actually has in mind Israel's rebellion and consequential exile under the Assyrians in 722. You see that that's actually also part of this discussion, you know, and that and that when the disciples came to Jesus um at the Ascension and they said, are you going to restore Israel now, the kingdom to Israel?
Speaker: they They were asking this question. Now that you've been raised from the dead, are you going to bring back the northern ten tribes?
Speaker: and And Jesus said to him, the times for that are not in you. Yeah, you don't need to worry about that. That's not what you're going to worry about. But but that that Paul, that that one way to read what Paul is doing is that he actually thinks that he is um that he is actually doing that. it's a Like I said, it is it is ah it is a really interesting rereading of a whole bunch of passages. And I just find such things and in such ideas really challenging to me.
Speaker: Okay, they they really change some of the ways that I think about some things, but also really helpful to me because they really force me to look at what I've read and heard before and look at it in a new way. And sometimes and oftentimes that is really helpful to me.
Speaker: um'd I'd really encourage your our readers, listeners, to to really think about, you know, go to a library, see if they can they can get you this book or go buy it.
Speaker: um It's published by um Cambridge Press in 2023. So it's it's it's not an old text. It's pretty new. um And I thought he did or made a really interesting case.
Speaker: There's, I think, for a ton of Christians... There's so much of the Old Testament that just gets lumped into Old Testament.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. and and And what happens and the closest I've ever heard And
Speaker: and i would definitely not say that I could describe much of my own thought system or. you Was that when.
Speaker: Abraham's a blessing to many. oh it's actually through Ishmael. Mm-hmm. Which, i and and the where this author was coming from was way just cuckoo. Yeah. So I didn't keep reading.
Speaker: But. Well, I've always understood that Abraham is the blessing to all the families on the earth is that is that jesus then is that Jesus then accepts and welcomes the Gentiles.
Speaker: and And in fact, um you know if you look, the the gospel reading for this Sunday is the Canaanite woman. um And you know where where jesus Jesus is clearly teaching his disciples that, look, this woman has great faith.
Speaker: you know if you look If you look at at the at this at the yeah reading for ah the 9th, August 9th, which is the Sunday before this one,
Speaker: The Gospel reading is Peter walking on the water. And what does Jesus say to Peter when he starts sinking?
Speaker: Oh, you of little faith. yeah it's It's very interesting that that you contrast. Peter, okay, granted, in this sort of moment of doubt, Jesus calls him a man of little faith.
Speaker: But then turns right around after this after this conversation with the Pharisees about about what goes in and out of a person's mouth, all of these things, what what makes for Jesus comes to this to this Canaanite woman in chapter 15, verses 21 and following, and says, this woman, who is, you know, Canaanite, she's she is a person of great faith.
Speaker: and And And, you know, that's just a head scratcher for for all of Jesus' disciples. i mean, how can that be? i mean, she's she's a daughter of Jezebel, for heaven's sake. The very reason these northern ten tribes, you know, they're living in the space where the northern trend ten tribes used to be, but they're gone.
Speaker: And now Jesus is looking at this woman who is, you know, part of the culture which was the cause of that exile. And that destruction of those northern ten tribes and say, I found faith there.
Speaker: Jesus is it's really pushing our boundaries on so much of this. He's really causing us to, he's making us really uncomfortable. He's roiling up his own disciples. Right? Paul wants to roil up those Jewish people. he wants to, he wants to get, because this message of Jesus is so disconcerting.
Speaker: on all kinds of different levels that that you really have to kind of crack open that human heart to get it ah way to get in there.
Speaker: but But I think it's really important to remember that what Jesus says here, or what Paul says here is that that that that this is about about roiling them up so that the Jesus message can get
Speaker: And it's for them too. But but I also think it's, i love the way Paul does this. And when he says, they're not my enemies. They may affect themselves to be my enemies. They might pick up stones and throw them at me.
Speaker: But even then, they're not my enemies.
Speaker: Paul makes a point to, when he's done his missionary journeys, to visit the synagogues first. Yeah, that's that's a really interesting thing because Jesus says, I'm sending you to the Gentiles in chapter 9 of Acts.
Speaker: But he also says, I'm sending you to Israel in that same passage. And there's another one that Staples would talk about. He says, yeah, Israel and the Gentiles are the same thing.
Speaker: Yeah. and but But when he's looking at... but When when we we were talking about you know the the two different tracks and how you know how dare us as as Christians do anything with ah somebody who is Jewish because well they've they're they've got their own thing. Well, if if that was what Paul was aiming at then why would he keep going to the synagogues first? he would have There would have been no need.
Speaker: right You guys are good. You've got your own, you know, half the promises, the gifts that God has given. And and i i'm just don't don't mind me. I'm just here to to get to the Gentiles. So never the two shall mix. And you guys will be just fine doing your thing. No, he doesn't. that There's a direct contradiction there.
Speaker: I think, if anything, for us these days, it's...
Speaker: maybe it would you can consider it, I don't know, if on paper, if I have two different people that i'm wanting to share Christ with and one has a Jewish background, knows the Old Testament, knows enough, knows about the promise of a Messiah and somebody that just is completely agnostic, atheist, completely far removed, that the message is still the same.
Speaker: It's going to take on a different flavor with this person who's Jewish. The promise has been fulfilled. You're already the promise. I get to pick up on the promise that you know. and The other person, it's going to take me a little while longer to get to or a whole different approach.
Speaker: and But I don't, i mean, if anything, that's it the way I've always looked at it. Yeah. is No, it's a I'm not looking at you i want to look as them at anybody like your enemy m Well, not as a pastor sharing my faith.
Speaker: Temple Matthew. Okay, no.
Speaker: but But it's, hey, you I know what you know. I know a lot of what you know. You probably know it better than I do, but I know the promise fulfilled.
Speaker: That's all. I want to share with you the promise fulfilled. Yeah. Yeah, i i i do think I do think it's it's really helpful. um ah ah One of the things, if if you've ever done any work with ah the Jews for Jesus movement and things, they they never talk about converting a Jew.
Speaker: No. They always talk about completing. Yes. That this is a completion process. And I i think that's i that's why, you know, in my commentary that I'm writing on Acts, I try never to talk about the conversion of Paul in Acts 9.
Speaker: I almost always talk about it as, as you know his vocation, his calling, but, uh, I don't think Paul ever understood that he changed religions.
Speaker: oh I think he always understood that he was, he was uh, uh, uh, in, in that confrontation with Christ, he was brought into a far more authentic form of his, of his faith than he had before, but that it's the same.
Speaker: It was the same religion that he was. in I'll say Apple of Azari. Yeah. I got to work with Steve Cohen when he was in St. Louis at that point in time. And very much followed that same. yep That same line of thought. I mean, even to the extent, and I actually thought this was amazing. I wish I hadn't lost the Bible I was using at that point in time. But instead of using Romans as the roadmap to salvation, it's like, that's the dumbest thing to do with someone who's Jewish. You realize that.
Speaker: yeah like No, you need to use the text that they know. Right, yeah, you need to use the Torah. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, so he he he walks us through that, and and I get done, I'm looking through it, and i thought, well, why not start with this with everybody?
Speaker: Yeah. Because, again, the the Bible all points to Christ. And so we've got our different ways of delineating it and and whatnot. But if it's all pointing to Christ, eventually, even even if I'm using Romans, I would love for every Christian to know the Old Testament as much as they can, the totality of Scripture.
Speaker: Why not start from the beginning?
Speaker: Indeed. Fascinating conversation this week, Matthew. Yes. loved this Loved it. Look forward to it. We'll ah we'll pick it up again. Sounds good. we We will be able to get it right this time. That's my goal. We'll be on the 13th Sunday after Pentecost on our next show. I'll say it now. That way I must have to forget it before we get to that one.
