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Locked Room/Closed Circle Mysteries (part 1)
332 Plays2 years ago
A group of friends on a holiday retreat. A crime nobody could have committed. Sarah and Brook discuss closed circle and locked room mysteries and the links between the two.
Short stories, novels, authors, shows, and films discussed"The Murders in the Rue Morgue" (1841) Edgar Allan Poe
"A Terribly Strange Bed" (1852) Wilkie Collins
Murder on the Orient Express (1934) Agatha Christie
And Then There Were None (1939) Agatha Christie Death on the Nile (1937) Agatha Christie
The Woman in Cabin 10 (2016) Ruth Ware
One by One (2020) Ruth Ware
A Dark Dark Wood (2015) Ruth Ware
The Hunting Party (2018) Lucy Foley
The Guest List (2020) Lucy Foley
Death in Paradise (2011-present)
The Mysterious Affair at Styles (1920) Agatha Christie
John Dixon Carr
The Black Lizard Book of Locked Room Mysteries (2014)
The Mystery of the Yellow Room (1907) Gaston Leroux
The Invitation (2022)
Knives Out (2019)
Knives Out 2 (2022)
References
http://crimebythebook.com/blog/2021/2/18/cbtbs-recommended-locked-room-mysteries https://crimereads.com/locked-room-mysteries-a-beginners-guide/ https://crimereads.com/the-great-locked-room-mystery-my-top-10-impossible-crimes/ https://somethingisgoingtohappen.net/2019/09/04/eqmm-and-the-locked-room-mystery-by-brian-skupin/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluedo
For more informationInstagram: @cluedinmystery
Contact us: [email protected]
Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers - www.silvermansound.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Topic
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. Hi Brooke. Hi Sarah, I'm so excited to talk to you today about this really fun topic. Yeah, we're going to talk about locked room mysteries. Now I'm looking forward to this.
00:00:29
Speaker
All right, I'll start us off with just a little background on locked room mystery and a sister trope closed circle mystery. And I like to think about these two like sisters, those sisters that are so similar and related that they often get confused with one another.
00:00:48
Speaker
Both of these mystery tropes have been around literally since the beginning of the genre.
Historical Significance of Mystery Tropes
00:00:54
Speaker
You'll remember that we spoke of the murders in the room org in our episode about Edgar Allan Poe as being a seminal piece in the beginnings of detective fiction. And not too far behind, we find closed room mysteries being a key component in many of the Golden Age favorites.
00:01:12
Speaker
So let's take a look at each one of them separately in order to understand their differences and similarities. The locked room mystery is a term used to describe a story in which a crime takes place in a literal locked setting, making the committal of the crime seem impossible. It typically involves fewer characters, perhaps just the victim, the killer, and a patsy.
00:01:37
Speaker
These puzzle stories are often how done it's rather than who done it's because the sleuth has a good idea who the murderer is but must prove how the killer managed it in order to ascertain guilt. Other names for this type of mystery is an impossible crime or a miracle problem.
00:01:56
Speaker
The term miracle problem is the idea that there is no earthly way for the crime to have been committed. This opens up the possibility for characters in the story to suspect a spiritual or supernatural explanation for the crime. Until the Savvy Sleuth comes in to crack the case, that is.
Key Elements of Locked Room and Closed Circle Mysteries
00:02:16
Speaker
The sister trope of closed circle mystery, on the other hand, includes a number of people isolated together when the crime occurs in their midst. They are somehow cut off from the rest of the world, perhaps by an avalanche, a plane crash, or being stuck on an island together.
00:02:34
Speaker
It becomes clear very quickly that one of them must be the perpetrator. No doubt, many Agatha Christie novels are springing to mind. That's because this was a very popular setup in the Golden Age of Mystery and heavily used by Christie and other writers of the time. And so we have locked room mysteries in which a crime takes place in a closed location and a closed circle mystery involving a limited number of suspects confined together.
00:03:04
Speaker
confusing, right? For me, examples really help. I've already mentioned the murders in the Rue Morgue as a great example of a locked room mystery.
00:03:14
Speaker
In it, two horrific murders are committed in a locked bedroom on the fourth floor of a Paris home. It seems completely impossible that a murderer could have gotten in and gotten out because the doors are locked from the inside. Another early example is A Terribly Strange Bed by Wilkie Collins, where an English visitor to a gambling house in Paris stays overnight in the building and is nearly killed by a specially constructed bed.
Classic Examples of Mystery Tropes
00:03:42
Speaker
For examples of closed circle mysteries, we must look no further than Dame Agatha herself. Whether a train car in Murder on the Orient Express, a creepy house on a private island in And Then There Were None, or a Nile cruise in Death on the Nile, the Queen of Crime knew how to put together an interesting cast of characters, isolate them, have a body drop, and let the fun begin.
00:04:09
Speaker
It's easy to see why these two related tropes get confused and also why the catchier term, locked room, has become shorthand for both styles of story.
00:04:20
Speaker
And maybe in the end, it's all just semantics and we should simply enjoy the stories. But this is what we'll discuss together next. Great. Thanks for that introduction, Brooke. Yeah, there's definitely some overlap. I really love that analogy of two sisters who get mixed up.
00:04:40
Speaker
When you were researching this, did you come across anything about why they are so often confused for each other or referred to together?
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, I think it's just a lot because of the similarities and also because that they were both popular, kind of rose in popularity at the same time. And they do, like you said, they do have a lot of similarities. I actually think another one of your great Venn diagrams might be in order once we discuss this, because there are a lot of things that are the same.
00:05:21
Speaker
And I also find that sometimes in a closed circle mystery, where of course sometimes there's multiple murders that happen, there's sometimes a series of locked room mysteries within the closed circle mystery, making it even more complicated.
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'll give some thought to a Venn diagram about these. I think that might help figure out where the differences are. So you mentioned a terribly strange bed. I read that to prepare for this episode. And I thought it was, I actually really enjoyed it.
00:06:01
Speaker
But I found it interesting that, and maybe it was just the way that I was researching, I couldn't find a lot of examples of modern or more recently published locked room mysteries.
Modern Interpretations and Media Adaptations
00:06:17
Speaker
Did you find any that were more recent? Because like you said, really popular in the golden age of crime and before that, but did you find any that were more modern?
00:06:32
Speaker
No, and oddly enough, it's it's kind of what we're saying. Like now, if you look up locked room mystery, you're going to find, for instance, Ruth Ware writes a lot of like we just recently discussed the woman in cabin 10. One by one is a group of people cut off by an avalanche in a dark, dark wood. She's confined to a home.
00:06:58
Speaker
But there again where they're referring to them as that catchy or locked room. But in a sense, if you look at the true definition, they're probably more closed circle mysteries. So I think that maybe we're dealing with just a An issue of semantics where kind of the
00:07:18
Speaker
definition of that term has morphed to incorporate both kinds. I can definitely think of modern day or more recent releases that are the close circle type, right? Lucy Foley's books, The Hunting Party and The Guest List are both a group of friends go to a remote location and then there's a couple of deaths, one or two deaths.
00:07:48
Speaker
And it's got to be someone in that group of friends who did it, right? I can think of some TV episodes that are locked room. I think Death in Paradise has a lot of episodes that are locked room style murders. And I'm sure there's some other examples of television programs that
00:08:14
Speaker
that use that trope as the mystery. And I wonder why we see more of that on screen than we do in the books that are being released now. It dawned on me in this exact same way that I see those stories, the locked room. For instance, the person gets on the elevator, the doors close, and when it shows up on the next floor, they're dead.
00:08:43
Speaker
I think that they are stories that are easy to translate visually, and maybe they're harder to tell.
Popularity and Reader Preferences
00:08:50
Speaker
It's also, I think, maybe our contemporary reading preferences, because they are such a puzzle mystery. The Mysterious Affair at Styles is a locked-room mystery.
00:09:05
Speaker
Sometimes those puzzle mystery stories when reading are very intricate and didactic and you have to follow along. There may not be a lot of dialogue. It's difficult to portray visually, I think. Our tastes in reading maybe have changed to where we want more of that interaction between people. I don't know. That's just a theory.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah, I wondered the same thing if it was just a shift in kind of reader preference. I did read a number of locked room short stories. Yeah, there's definitely more of those stories even that I read that were written by authors writing 50 years ago, 70 years ago, 100 years ago.
00:09:57
Speaker
And yeah, I wonder if you're right, if it's partly a shift just in terms of what the what readers are preferring to pick up. And so that's just reflected in what gets written and what gets published.
00:10:12
Speaker
I learned through my research that the critics consider the master of the locked room mystery, John Dixon Carr, who wrote apparently a one after another of these stories in the 1930s and 1940s.
00:10:27
Speaker
And so that's something that I've put on my list to look into. And as an interesting side note, he is one of only two Americans to have been inducted into the prestigious detection club. So he definitely did a good job with those locked room mysteries.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, I read one of his short stories to prepare for this and I definitely want to read a couple more because, you know, I thought it was quite good. There is, you know, some of the Sherlock Holmes stories are locked room puzzles that, you know, he comes up with the brilliant solution.
Notable Authors and Stories
00:11:09
Speaker
And you mentioned Agatha Christie, so, you know, several of her novels, but also she wrote some short stories that were locked room puzzles, and they're great as well. I read The Mystery of the Yellow Room by Gaston Le Roux, who, so he wrote The Phantom of the Opera.
00:11:29
Speaker
as well. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think the Mystery of the Yellow Room, I think that was before, or that was written and published before Phantom of the Opera, which I might actually check out that book, The Phantom of the Opera, because apparently it is different than the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical that most people would be familiar with.
00:11:57
Speaker
Anyway, that was an interesting book to read and definitely one that I would put in the locked room category. Another point I wanted to bring up today about the differences between the two is that in the closed circle mystery, there's a lot of high emotion in the characters.
00:12:23
Speaker
There's a lot of suspense and fear and tension, so it's a high emotion story. And in the locked room, it's usually not very emotional, a pretty low emotion story. It's a lot of times post-crime, like we don't see the crime or aren't in fear of another crime happening.
00:12:43
Speaker
And which is pretty typical of those puzzle stories, right? It's more intellectual, the sleuths going through and looking at the clues. And so we have the, maybe that's another way to differentiate a story is, is there a lot of suspense or is it more of like a detection story?
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really great observation, Brooke, because when I think about reading, even reading, and then there were none, that is very suspenseful. Who's going to be next? Who's doing this?
Detective Roles and Emotional Tones
00:13:21
Speaker
Same thing when we read The Woman in Cabin 10 or Lucy Foley's books.
00:13:33
Speaker
Who's telling the truth here? Everybody has secrets, but they're not necessarily secrets that have led to the murder, right? But you have to kind of figure out, okay, which is the most relevant. Whereas, yeah, with the locked room, the murder has happened and it's less suspenseful and more observations that the detective is making.
00:14:00
Speaker
And I would say it is also that there's a detective, right? In several of the other books that we've been talking about, it's not necessarily a police investigation that's happening. It's just a regular person who's trying to figure out what's going on. In the other examples, it's a detective that is doing the investigation. So I wonder if that kind of
00:14:26
Speaker
contributes to some of the difference between those types of stories. I think it definitely does. And I have a true confession to make. It's true confession time, Sarah. Until this week, I had never read and then there were none.
00:14:44
Speaker
I know, I know. I had watched movies, seen film adaptations, and so I just kind of felt like, oh yeah, I mean, and I loved it, don't get me wrong, but I thought, okay, this is the right time, this is the right time, and it was so good. It was just fantastic, as I knew it would be, right?
00:15:00
Speaker
But that's where the notion came that it is sort of locked room within closed circle. I mean, it's so masterful as anyone who has read it or seen it knows. But yeah, I like that comparison or that point that you made that there is no detective in this story. It's just the people that are put in the situation.
00:15:26
Speaker
And that's, as many as I can think of, that's kind of the case for a closed room. So I like that as another way to, it's another point for our Venn diagram. Yeah. I'm just writing that down. So do you have a preference, Brooke, for if you were, you know, if you had an option of reading a closed circle or a locked room mystery, do you think there's one that you would choose over the other?
00:15:53
Speaker
I really like the, I like the closed circle concept, you know, um, I love the personal interactions, you know, and you want to know, you know, who maybe has a secret alliance or who's telling the truth and who's, um, you know, I really, really enjoy that. But you know, if you want to throw in some of those other elements, I'm all for it. What about you?
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm the same. I think I enjoy reading the locked room mysteries, but sometimes the solutions are a little far-fetched.
00:16:31
Speaker
Whereas with the closed circle, I don't find that, you know, maybe the reason behind the murder is a little bit like I'm not sure that that would bring me to to to kill someone. But the, you know, the method isn't isn't often as convoluted as it sometimes seems in in some of the locked room mysteries that I've read.
00:17:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Games and Mystery Tropes
00:17:03
Speaker
Definitely Well, you know, I don't I think we're in good company and the closed circle mystery got so popular in the 1930s and 40s and it's actually the reason Not surprising where the game clue or Cluedo Came from I looked into this and Anthony Pratt is the inventor. He's a Brit who in
00:17:31
Speaker
I believe 43 actually invented the game while he was holed up in his home during the air raids of World War II. And largely because of everyone's love for reading Christie novels. And he was like, well, it would be really fun to play this game. And so he created it. And in 1944, it was released in the UK. And then in 1947, and of course in the UK, it's Cluedo. And in 47, it became Clue in the US.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I know it's still one of the family favorite board games at my house. Oh, here too. I actually have two versions of it. So do we. So Sarah, do you play Clue or Cluedo in Canada? Clue, I think, are both of my versions. Yeah, it's known as Clue here.
00:18:24
Speaker
Yeah. I would love to get my hands on one of the earlier additions that Anthony Pratt made because some of the weapons included a syringe, a bomb, a walking stick, a fireplace poker. Yeah. Really fun murder weapons there in the original version.
00:18:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's such a great, great piece of mystery trivia. Brooke, I love it. And I think it's fun, you know, lately at this recording, it's fall of 2022. And we've seen kind of a resurgence of especially mystery film.
00:19:02
Speaker
And there's a great release coming up next called The Invitation.
Enduring Popularity of Mysteries in Media
00:19:08
Speaker
In fact, it may have already been released at this recording where it is a closed circle mystery. A number of people get invited to come to a swanky party at a house.
00:19:21
Speaker
And when they get there, it's not at all what they expected. So I was really happy to see that and know that this trope is still popular. We still love to watch that story play out.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, excellent. Your comment makes me think of knives out, which I think is a good example of that. It's actually a combination because there is a detective who comes to figure it out. But it's definitely a closed circle. I can't remember. Is it a locked room as well?
00:20:01
Speaker
I believe so. I believe so. It's the culmination of it all. Great reference, Sarah. I'm going to have to rewatch it because then they just announced the release date for the second Knives Out movie, right?
00:20:19
Speaker
Oh, that's great.
Conclusion and Further Exploration
00:20:20
Speaker
Brooke, I think this was a really great conversation and I think there's some really great books and stories for people to check out if they're interested in either locked room or closed circle mysteries or, you know, if they can find something that is a combination of the two and kind of get the best of both of those great subgenres.
00:20:41
Speaker
Absolutely. And we will include some links to some articles that I referenced and resources if you're interested in learning more. But for today, thank you so much for joining us on Clued In Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery.
00:20:58
Speaker
Clued In Mystery is produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers at Silvermansound.com. Visit us online at CluedInMystery.com or social media at CluedInMystery. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or telling your friends.