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How the Seattle Sounders Became a Dynasty (feat. Tim Ostlund-Foss) - Ep. 122
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Sounder at Heart's Tim Ostlund-Foss plays the role of guest host this week as we discuss MLS news, the recent USMNT matches, and of course, Agenda Check.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Quite the scorcher today. Well it's gonna be scorcher.
00:00:22
Speaker
What's going on, everybody? Welcome in to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers. up Got a big show for you here today with Noah in Hawaii.
00:00:33
Speaker
We have got Sounder at Hearts, Tim Foss, swapping in for co-hosting duties. ae And we're going to hit some news headlines and some Seattle Sounders with our classic agenda check.
00:00:47
Speaker
Tim, thank you so much for swapping in here. how are you doing? I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's, ah you know, an honor and a pleasure. It's a beautiful day out.
00:00:59
Speaker
Sounders are getting ready to get back to action. I'm happy to be on Lobbing Scorchers to talk about it. Yeah, that's right. We've got the Seattle Sounders returning to MLS play
Seattle Sounders' MLS Matches
00:01:10
Speaker
this weekend.
00:01:11
Speaker
l LA Galaxy, once again, Lumen Field, a familiar foe. And then Inter-Miami right after that. So yeah, there's been a little bit of a kind of a break here, which I think has been kind of nice.
00:01:25
Speaker
Uh, but I'm ready to get back at it, get back into the rhythm of the games again and, see what the team can do as far as this, uh, fight for home field advantage in the playoffs. Uh, at the start of the show here today, we are going to be reacting to the suspension from MLS that, uh, the crash out cry baby Luis Suarez was handed. Uh, last time we recorded, he had been given his six game leagues cup suspension,
00:01:50
Speaker
ah But we had not talked about the follow up punishment from MLS that got Luis Suarez got hit with along with Stephen Lenhart. ah So we're going to react to that. ah Christian Roldan is back with the USMNT. He was on vacation. He got called in.
00:02:06
Speaker
He played all 90 in their 2-0 win over Japan last night. We're going to talk about that. And then, ah yeah, a few more topics related to Seattle and this return to league play and then ah more kind of more broader topics as well. hu But before we do all that, I do have to let you all know that Lobbing Scorchers is a part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network.
00:02:28
Speaker
you want to get the best independent Seattle soccer coverage, can sort of consider supporting us by going to sounderatheart.com slash LS. That's sounderatheart.com slash LS. scroll down to subscribe and support to get 30 days completely free every sign up through our link helps support and grow the show ah thank you to everyone who got us to the triple digit how sounder at heart uh subscription milestone uh and shout out to our sponsors hacks and ferments podium menswear full pull lines my data removal ah If you have not done so yet, please subscribe to the channel and follow us on ah Instagram and TikTok where we've had a lot going on. The League's Cup saw us get a lot of growth on both those platforms. So ah go ahead and drop us a follow.
00:03:11
Speaker
We're always dishing the heat on there. All right, Tim, let's get into it. We got a lot to get to as as we look ahead to the Seattle Sounders getting this league season back going. But first, we are going to have to do some more Leagues Cup Brawl discourse,
Luis Suarez Suspension and League Disciplinary Actions
00:03:26
Speaker
unfortunately.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah. There's still the, there's still the fallout going on. And the latest development is that Luis Suarez has been suspended for three MLS games. In addition to his six game leagues cup band, which is going to, if he's back next year, he's not going to be playing in leagues cup, but he gets three MLS games in addition to that, which means he will not be playing when the Seattle Sounders go to Miami in about a week's time, is it?
00:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. They're going in about a week after this Galaxy game. That's the next game. su Suarez will not be playing in that. Tim, three games in MLS.
00:04:06
Speaker
What do you think? Is that ah is that so sufficient? I would argue it's a little light. What do you think? I think it's a little light, but it weirdly like splits the, the difference of not as much as it probably deserved. And as much as you could really expect the league to throw down, like it's pretty much in line with the way the league has punished spitting offenses in the past.
00:04:35
Speaker
Uh, somewhat famously Hector Herrera spit at a referee playing against the Sounders in the playoffs last year. i think he got a two game suspension that will never be served because he transferred to Luke. He left the league. He left. um He just slipped. Mason toy spit at guy. i The RSL center back spit at a guy like,
Christian Roldan's Impact on US Men's National Team
00:05:02
Speaker
Two games has typically been like two to three games has typically been what they've done as punishment for that in the league. I think as has been the topic of conversation a lot, like there is sort of a weird under, not that it's understandable to spit at somebody, but when it's within the confines of the field and the events of a game,
00:05:32
Speaker
There is that like heat of the moment. You punish it, but spitting at a team staffer, and especially the visual of Gene, who's like a small, older guy, fiting attempting to spit in his face,
00:05:47
Speaker
i think he did spit I think he did spit in his face. That is another difference. He spit on... got him in the face. Herrera and Mason Toy, I think, were like in the direction, if I'm remembering correctly, whereas Suarez actually spat on him. I don't know if that makes a difference.
00:06:02
Speaker
ah But... Yeah, I mean, the the three league lead games, you know, I would have given him minimum um giving him a little more, but I'm biased. The only thing I don't understand, though, you know, the three games, three games, I think that's ultimately fine. Like you said, relatively in line with precedent. So I'm not like too bent out of shape about that.
00:06:21
Speaker
I do not understand how Sergio Busquets doesn't get anything in league play. He got two games ah in from in from next year's League's Cup, right?
00:06:33
Speaker
But he does not get hit with anything in addition to and to that in league play. And, ah you know, he was one of the main crash out crybabying instigators, if if you remember. He's the one who hit Obed that kind of started inciting everything. And then Suarez also, he he instigated and escalated after that.
00:06:58
Speaker
ah But yeah, Busquets didn't get anything in the league. Aviles didn't get anything in the league. And Falcone didn't get anything in the league. I would argue that those guys should have been involved here. But I don't know. Why do you why do you think why do you think they didn't get any punishment? And then ah also, why are they so mad about Steven Lenhart? Like, I get it. Like, he's a...
00:07:22
Speaker
he He gets five games, his credential revoked, and like he shouldn't have been out there taken taking swings. I'm not surprised that he got disciplined, but it seems like ah they're like really, really throwing the book at Steven Lenhart, which feels kind of it like he was taking swings, but you know so was Busquets, so was Aviles.
00:07:45
Speaker
Is it just because he wasn't supposed to be on the on the field in their estimation? like why are they Why are they so mad at Steve? I have to assume that there's something about like the way that whatever his technical job title is, is not classified as like a game day
Seattle Sounders Player Updates and Lineup Speculations
00:08:08
Speaker
position, like that. He's not really a coach. He's not part of the technical staff. He's not part of the medical staff that like he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And the fact that,
00:08:22
Speaker
I think ah similar token to like the opposite side of the coin of Luis Suarez spitting at a team staffer is sort of different from spitting at another player or the referee as much as like, that's an important thing to do.
00:08:38
Speaker
A team staffer initially going into like break things up and then very genuinely getting into the scrap is like, you super can't be doing that.
00:08:48
Speaker
That is like, a parent starting a fight at a kid's soccer game. Like, you are an adult here. You really, really can't be doing this. And also, I think removing his game day credential doesn't impact his ability to do his job, really. need Like, think ultimately it's a a visible punishment that maybe doesn't have as much real consequence.
00:09:18
Speaker
The other ones, I think like Falcone, maybe you could make the argument that he's sort of trying to break things up. But and like.
00:09:32
Speaker
Not in a real way, like in a way that- putting Cody Baker in a headlock. but That was his de-escalation tactic. Right, like how dare you try to keep this guy who just punched your friend and teammate from punching him again.
00:09:46
Speaker
yeah you know, chokeholds are a normal way to de-escalate a fight. um i Some of the other guys, like Vuzkets, I think not getting any punishment is crazy.
00:09:57
Speaker
The other guys, i think if you start going down the list, you also have to start handing stuff out to, like there was the shot of Jackson Reagan going full like cartoon character fight, grabbing, think Aviles by the neck um that was going around. like John Bell tackled a guy that did happen. Yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
You know, I think the further down the list you start going, the more it's like, all right, well, if he's going to get a game or two, then we have to give this guy a game and this guy a game and this guy a game. Busquets should have gotten something. I think the punishment he even got for a Leagues Cup was particularly light. Like, I think that's crazy, but it is what it is.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, I don't know i don't know how Busquets skated on on that one. But, I mean, i think overall, Suarez getting hit with something was the most important thing that had to happen. The way J.O. was explaining it made some sense, which was that, you know, maybe they figure that with League's Cup being a ah separate entity that's in charge of its own discipline, the stuff that they had to punish in league play was the stuff that was sort of,
00:11:14
Speaker
beyond the normal stuff that that leagues cup would discipline them for. And I think like spitting on somebody falls into, into that category.
00:11:26
Speaker
um So, yeah, I guess on, on that note, like the rest of it is sort of, you don't see it in that volume, but you see happen in soccer game like yeah punching not so much but the other stuff is not a completely foreign thing to a sporting event the spitting is like above and beyond the pale like it makes sense for them to throw some additional punishment at that and let the rest of it kind of go as it's bad but it isn't necessarily bringing the league into disrepute
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, it was a little worse than your average post-game dust-up. Usually those are like, hold me back, hold me back, and then no one actually... But there was some swinging going on here, and necks being grabbed, and headlocks being being deployed.
00:12:19
Speaker
so ah But i yeah, I understand the logic. like it wasn't if If they're going to say that ah we're only going to punish the stuff that we feel goes like beyond that standard, then...
00:12:32
Speaker
Whatever. It's fine. I think for me, ultimately, like at first i was like, man, Suarez only got three games. that's that That feels a little light to me. But I think at the end of the day, I mean...
00:12:44
Speaker
They look like such doofuses in all of this. Like, not just in how badly they got beat on the field. That would be one thing. But then the reaction to that, everyone saw that that whole thing started because of how frustrated they were about how badly they got beat. And then you combine that with the spitting incident and then Suarez's statement and Inter-Miami's statement after the fact, which I thought were both...
00:13:12
Speaker
poorly poorly executed. Really, like see like Seattle wins just by how everything happened in that situation, regardless of what the discipline was.
00:13:26
Speaker
They look like circus clowns. So I think that's that's all the kind of victory I need in that in this situation. Yeah, they win by comparison and by beating Miami so bad that their crash out became like global news. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:44
Speaker
They made international headlines for their crash out. So I think that's ah hopefully we can put the brawl discourse. to rest after this i think we covered it extensively because it was it was merited it was like you said an international story but i think one way or another it's inevitably going to come up again next tuesday or wednesday whatever day they're right yeah you're right
00:14:15
Speaker
until the next Miami meeting. yeah Yeah. How many times do you think you're going to mention it on the, ah on the broadcast? It's, it's going to be a lot. Every time Busquets touches the ball, maybe. Yeah.
00:14:27
Speaker
Oh my God. Like, yeah, the fact that he's playing and going to be playing in that game. It's ah it's pretty funny. Tim, let's talk about some ah Christian rolled on. Ever heard of him? I have heard a lot of him and I love to talk about him.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah. ah So he, after the league's cup title, which, you know, he was one of the best players in that, ah in that whole tournament. And he's obviously having a fantastic season.
00:14:53
Speaker
He was on vacation as I understand it after league's cup ended. And then he got a little call from Pochettino and the gang. And they said, Hey, want to come join the USMNT for our September friendlies.
00:15:08
Speaker
And he was like, yeah. And, uh, The USMNT won 2-0 in their friendly against Japan. Last night, Christian started, played the full 90. I'm pretty sure.
00:15:21
Speaker
If he didn't play the full 90, he played for most of the game. And what do you know? The team looked much better than it has in a while. i'm not you know I'm not saying that's necessarily like causation or whatever.
00:15:35
Speaker
But i mean I do think that it's notable that as soon as he got in the 11, the team... beat a good opponent and like looked pretty damn good while doing it. And Christian had a, had a really good shift. You know, you had, you had the bots talking about obviously how terrible he is. They're always going do that. But I think anyone who is, was watching that game could see that ah he was, he was doing his thing. i thought he and Tyler Adams looked like they were working pretty well together.
00:16:04
Speaker
And then the, yeah the ripple effect, on the team as a whole seem to be there. Tim, what do you make, I guess, first of all, of Christian getting back in the mix? This had been something that, you know, was getting talked about in our type of circles as something that should happen, but not something that I necessarily expected to happen just because ah because of ah because of his age and he hadn't really been in the mix for a while.
00:16:28
Speaker
What did you think of him getting the call and then also ah the positive impact that it seemed to have on the USMNT midfield, which I mean, I think anyone who's being real about it should ah should be able to acknowledge that he the whole team did look a lot better. I'm just saying.
00:16:46
Speaker
On a personal level, for me, i was frustrated because I don't watch the U.S. s men's national team, really. And with Christian getting called in, it was like, well, I have to watch if he's on the field.
00:17:01
Speaker
Right. But... Great for Christian, very much well-deserved and earned. The move to making him a permanent part of Seattle's double pivot has been so good for him, so good for the Sounders. And for all that there's like a number of younger players in a similar role throughout the US system, you've got Sebastian Bearhalter, it's the Columbus Crew guy who moved to- Aiden Morris.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, Aiden Morris, like, and Tyler Adams, obviously. Weston McKinney didn't call get called in for this couple of friendlies, but I think Christian offers a lot that you don't get from those guys for all that, like, Tyler Adams has a lot of good qualities, like he's a good ball winner, and in short distribution, he can win the ball and give it to somebody else, but I think Christian offers...
00:18:02
Speaker
a kind of utility player is almost unfair and derogatory a little bit, but like he does all of the things you want a guy in that part of the field to do well.
00:18:17
Speaker
And it was funny watching him in the game against Japan where like playing with Christian Pulisic in front of him to the left, there were several times where it was A similar thing to when a really talented player comes to an MLS team and they're hitting passes or making runs and the guys around them just don't know what to do with it. There were several times where Christian either is involved in creating a transition opportunity or making a pseudo transition opportunity out of possession and has the defense running backwards and he gives the ball Pulisic and then he's like, what are you...
00:18:59
Speaker
do you not know what to do here? Like what are, what's happening? um But I think he looked really good. i think paraphrasing the God, Matt Doyle and his stock up stock down piece on major league soccer, soccer.com about the U S roster coming out of these friendlies that Christian looks sort of unspectacular, but was subtly heavily involved in most of the good moments for The US yesterday like was involved in all of the chances created basically and involved in the buildup for the goals in some capacity. i mean, I think increasingly the likelihood that he goes to the World Cup is pretty high.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was
Analyzing Christian Roldan's Influence
00:19:50
Speaker
it was funny. You know, you have the portion of people that are going to crash out about it anytime he caught gets called in no matter what. And there was I saw a few tweets flying around to the effect of like, like do you really think that Christian Roldan is better than Tanner Tessman and Aiden Morris?
00:20:09
Speaker
I'm like, Yeah. Yeah. ah I mean, at the very least, I don't think ah there's all that much of a differential and over you overall quality between him and those other guys. And, you know, yeah, we're we're biased. We're biased. But I do think he, ah having watched him play this whole year, i do think he's better than those guys. And what I think is great about the year he's had this year is, you know, so much of it is just dismissing him because he plays in MLS, which is nothing new But if you look at the games that he's played in this year, there was a game against Atletico Madrid where he was, i thought the best player on the field and the the rest of the quote club World Cup games against Botafogo and PSG.
00:20:53
Speaker
He was one of the better players on the field, the Atletico game in particular. He was incredible, but he was really good in the club World Cup. And then in League's Cup, where they're playing all these Liga and Mechies teams and then close it out with a game in the final against Lionel Messi and the Barca boys.
00:21:09
Speaker
He was still one of, if not the best players on the field. So it's like it just kind of it did away with that talking point like right away, which that was that was fun to see.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's always funny when someone is like, do you really think he's better than Tanner Tessman? Tanner Tessman played for a fashion label in the Italian second tier for a while.
00:21:33
Speaker
And now just because he doesn't have a team that you've heard of in France who you can't watch their games, good luck. I don't know how you think you know how he's doing, but like even if you can, I doubt he playing for Olympic Lyon looks better against PSG than Christian did against PSG.
00:21:50
Speaker
No. Yeah. the I mean, yeah, no shade at Tanner Tessman. There was some random names thrown out there. Like, even even when it was like, do you we really think he's better than Johnny Cardoso?
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, i would i would I would say so. It's at least debatable. But yeah, no, I hope he keeps getting called in. Credit to Pochettino, honestly, for... yeah i would argue it took a little too long. But i what do you think of just...
00:22:22
Speaker
the approach he's taken and how vocal he is about giving anyone a chance no matter what league they play in and how we need MLS players and the quality of the league is such that these guys deserve that he's saying all this stuff that I don't think Berhalter even went on the record to this extent probably because he knew that he would get skewered for it but you know doesn't care. Like outside of whatever you think of him as a coach, what do you think of that aspect of it? Cause I think it's, it's pretty, it's pretty funny from our perspective.
00:22:54
Speaker
I think it's pretty funny. i think it's also for all that, like the dudes who are the biggest pervs about the U S men's national team are going to be the craziest about, you have to have all of your best players playing in Europe.
00:23:10
Speaker
And I, you know, the U S is not, unique in that capacity of like the craziest fans think that you aren't a real national team unless you're calling players from big leagues in brazil like mexico have the same issue with their fan base but the way that you you know build a culture within your national team and reflect the country that you represent is to call players from that country and you want domestic talent doing well in the domestic league if that domestic league is good and you know i don't think that and mls is on the same level as the big five european leagues but it's not a bad league and it is competitive
00:24:03
Speaker
i think calling more players from andls to see how they stack up against the other guys is the right move. Like if you're not exploring the full depth of your player pool, then you're not really doing the job.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. i mean I it is just funny seeing the yeah reactions to it sometimes, because it's like every every national team in the world pretty much works like this, where you have a group of players that play in different leagues around the world, and you call in the best of those ones, and then you call in a lot of guys from the domestic league.
00:24:44
Speaker
So... i don't i mean I don't know. Maybe it's maybe it's that we you we only see the yeah the crazy U.S. discourse and it does work like that in other countries.
00:24:57
Speaker
To me, it's always felt like it must be more extreme here. But... I don't know. Either way, it was good to see Christian back out there playing well, contributing to a win, a badly needed win for the U.S. It's crazy how that works. Like the vibes around that team and that program were so terrible.
00:25:14
Speaker
All it took was sliding Christian rolled on into the starting 11 and the vibes the vibes are back. They beat a good Japan team pretty comprehensively. I didn't watch the full game, but I watched enough of it to see that they were playing well.
00:25:27
Speaker
So we'll see if they can keep that up and we'll see if ah Christian keeps getting called in. I mean, he yeah he's going to have a chance to keep excelling at the club level for the rest of Seattle season and into the playoffs. And, you know, based on the year he's having, I don't see any reason why he why he wouldn't do that and keep his name in the mix.
00:25:48
Speaker
Anything else on Christian before we ah talk some injury updates? I think the the one thing, and maybe this is a good transition into injury updates, is, you know, the not necessarily concern, but Christian had had a couple games where he didn't necessarily look his best going into the break.
00:26:07
Speaker
And it turned out he was working through an ass injury of some sort. um that probably the kind of thing that like a week and a half, two weeks off resting would have been really good. ah but instead he got a couple of days rest and then went and trained and played with the national team. You, I mean, he didn't seem to be having and any, any ill effects in that game against Japan. So maybe hopefully that's recovered.
00:26:38
Speaker
Um, we could, Could get into a tough space if that injury flares up, but nothing to worry about at the moment, at least.
00:26:51
Speaker
It's been an ongoing storyline this year, as we all know, that... ah that the double pivot has been playing pretty much every minute of every game. And I do think you're right that you saw some signs of potential fatigue in both members of the double pivot Obed as well.
00:27:08
Speaker
Uh, so, I mean, Obed was at U 20 camp and, uh, Christian was with the u S so it's not like they got, uh, full breaks, but hopefully there's some rest period for both of them in there and they can recharge at least a little bit to take on the stretch run
Sounders' Injury Update and Strategic Decisions
00:27:27
Speaker
of the season here. I think I feel a lot better about their cover there with Snyder Brunel coming up and looking really good so far. I was even saying before the league's cup final, there was some rumblings that Christian might've had an injury. And I was, I was saying, I felt
00:27:44
Speaker
Not the same amount of confidence if ah Snyder Burnell had to start, but I don't know about you. i i was I felt like, okay, if Snyder has to go, then he has to go. And i feel like the level is going to stay at least in the ballpark of what it usually is, which I think you know that's a i think that's just a testament to how good ah Snyder has looked that way.
00:28:05
Speaker
I would feel that confident. Like, before he got called up, if Christian, the possibility of Christian missing any time was, like, mortifying. Like, what is going to happen if he does have to miss any time? But now I'm like, all right. I mean, if he has to rotate out for whatever reason, they have more cover there now. And even Danny Leyva, I feel like he's been looked a lot better in the more advanced role. But,
00:28:29
Speaker
when they did run him in the double pivot in a substitute appearance recently, he looked pretty good too. So hopefully they don't have to dip into the depth there, but if they do, I don't think it's like the end of the world.
00:28:42
Speaker
All right. Let's talk about some of these injury updates that courtesy of J O from training today. This is, these are all per Brian Schmetzer. ah The first one, Tim, Albert Rusnak will be available this week.
00:28:57
Speaker
ah He is returning. He's been out for like three or four weeks at this point, right? With the hamstring injury. Didn't play in the last few games of League's Cup at all. Jesus Ferreira had been playing the 10. How are you feeling about...
00:29:12
Speaker
Albert's return and I guess sort of just the discussion of there was a there was a little bit of discourse going on of like, ah well, the the team and the offense been playing so well with Ferreira in there. Like, you keep riding the hot hand or do you just slide Albert right back in there ah for for my part?
00:29:28
Speaker
Like, I don't think there's really much of a question about that. I think you were you slide Albert right back in there because. ah The offense had been playing an even better level, honestly, when he was starting. I mean, he was the one who was out there running it for the 7-0. And then on top of that, i think Ferreira has figured out that why that wide role.
00:29:49
Speaker
Like he, before this happened and he had to slide over to cover for Albert, he had really looked like he had come into his own there. So, I mean, not that there had been... uh fervent calls for it but i mean i don't think there's any other outcome here than that you just put albert back at the 10 slide frere out and that's basically that's your first choice 11. yeah i think bert's been out for a little over a month the tijuana game was where he picked up his injury um
00:30:22
Speaker
And to your point, the attack was flowing even better during that stretch. Like, I don't think there's any real argument that he doesn't go right back in. And for all that I like Ferreira at the 10 in certain games and certain situations, but I think especially with Albert coming back from injury,
00:30:50
Speaker
it doesn't necessarily have to be like all Albert all the time from here on out. Like maybe sounds like he's probably going to start against the galaxy. Maybe he comes off the bench against Miami and Ferreira starts at the 10 against Miami, but is on the wing against LA and only plays 60 minutes or whatever. Like I really like Ferreira on the wing, especially with Russnack because Russnack likes to move to the left. And then you've,
00:31:22
Speaker
Like whoever overlapping from the right, whether that's Alex or you know Kalani, whoever might play there, like i think that's a good good option. And it just and just means you've got more good attacking changes you can make from the bench. like If Ferreira goes to the right wing, Rothrock becomes someone who's coming off of the bench probably. or like Right.
00:31:48
Speaker
And I think that's something that ah people might have been talking about is like, you know, how do you move Rothrock to the super sub role or whatever? I mean, the way I see it is you have your first choice 11 with Rusnak at the 10 and Ferreira out wide.
00:32:04
Speaker
And then... Rothrock is like your first guy off the bench in like a first choice scenario. But also, I mean, we know how these things go. There's fixture congestion. There's times where you're going to to rotate. Rothrock is going to get his minutes and he's going to get his starting minutes. I wouldn't worry about that.
00:32:20
Speaker
I'm also starting to feel like. Like where Ferreira is listed on the on the lineup graphic, I feel like it doesn't even matter that much. Having him and Rusnak playing together, it's kind of like having just two tens out there, just two all-around playmakers. Ferreira's not really playing that wide channel like a traditional winger at all.
00:32:43
Speaker
He's playing it more. He's just, he's just got this kind of skillset where you can put him anywhere and he's going to figure out how to make it work and give you a lot of the, the same positive stuff, no matter where you put him.
00:32:57
Speaker
That's kind of what I'm, that's what I'm realizing. That's like the beauty of the player. This is what we all hoped when they traded for him is that he would have that adaptability and versatility to sort of play in different positions and give you cover somewhere. If you, uh,
00:33:11
Speaker
if you need it. And right now I think that's working beautifully. And i have no kind of hesitation or qualms with him just sliding back out there.
00:33:22
Speaker
And i feel like he's going to keep doing what he's been doing at a pretty similar level. I mean, do you feel confident about that as well? Yeah, absolutely. Especially, you know, looking at going back and rewatching You know I've watched the final against Miami a few times. I've rewatched the highlights a few times on top of that.
00:33:46
Speaker
But like the way he moves with and without the ball, no matter where he's at, like if he's playing on the right, he's going to drift in sort of between where on a piece of paper, if you're laying everything out in between where the nine and the 10 and that right wing, like,
00:34:08
Speaker
are all laid out. He's going to come into that pocket and he's going to get attention from someone. And then he's going to drift a little bit away and he's going to get the ball and then he's going to carry it. And that's going to pull more attention. And that's how Rosario is,
00:34:23
Speaker
is completely unmarked for his goal. Like Herrera drifts towards the center backs and then drops back to receive the ball with the ball. He carries into further space, forcing more players to step to him.
00:34:39
Speaker
He plays the ball out cross and rolled on sends in the cross and De Rosario is not marked by anybody. Like, His movement and his ability to pick out and play a pass just creates so much space for other people to operate in It is only better when you have more guys who can pick out those passes and operate in those tight spaces. And I think the trio of De La Vega, Ferreira, and Rusnak as the three behind whoever your striker is,
00:35:13
Speaker
is such a potent mix of like movement and passing. It just makes the Sounders attack so dangerous. it's a It's a great call-out. He does so much of the yeah ah little things for this team, like the the details. Again, it's like stuff that I don't think I fully appreciated until I was watching him on this team week in, week out, as opposed to kind of watching him periodically when he was with FC Dallas. ah like Movement stuff like that, like you mentioned.
00:35:41
Speaker
And then his pressing is just so... so good. yeah I mean, he's been one of the big reasons why Seattle's press press has been so effective and why they've been able to put these teams under such relentless pressure and force these turnovers and start these dangerous counters.
00:35:57
Speaker
That's all stuff that he brings to the table at not just like a good level, but an elite level. So yeah, well-rounded, well-rounded player. in In addition to the positional versatility, two-way player, and you can just put him anywhere and he's going to bring it.
00:36:11
Speaker
Jordan Morris. He could be available for the Galaxy game, but I think what Schmetzer said was that it's probably more likely that he's looking at the Miami game, which is on a Tuesday.
00:36:21
Speaker
It's on Tuesday. as a i imagine that's just to get him back in the matchday squad and hopefully get him some minutes. off the off the bench. What do you make of this number nine depth chart with Jordan Morris coming back? Obviously, you have Danny Musabski, who is having a career year, 15 goals, all comps.
00:36:41
Speaker
ah And really, he's been a big reason why this offense has been able to stay afloat with the DP number nine getting hurt. ah But then you also have Osaze. I think like League's Cup was his full-on breakout. I mean, he had five five goals in the tournament, four goals, five goals.
00:36:59
Speaker
He had a lot of goals, four goals in the tournament, five goals overall, if you count. Yeah. When, uh, uh, the Atlanta one in league play. So he's got five goals over this last, a period of time where he's been getting a lot of minutes and it looks like they, Seattle potentially has a breakout star on their hands with Osase. So I think there's a sense that he, he has earned minutes as well.
00:37:24
Speaker
ah I guess the first question, Tim, with ah when I think Osaze being the depth component of this is pretty set in stone, but what do you think of the kind of choice between like, if you had a playoff game tomorrow, are you starting Moose or does Jordan get the starting job back? And let's, let's, for the sake of the hypothetical, Jordan is like fully fit and could play, could play 90.
00:37:54
Speaker
ninety Like, How do you think they're going to handle this? I think Jordan starts like for all that it is insane to look at, you know, Danny Masavsky could genuinely break the Seattle Sounders single season, both league scoring and all competition scoring records this season.
00:38:18
Speaker
He's got 15 points.
00:38:22
Speaker
15 all comps goals 13 MLS goals and they've got seven games to play
00:38:32
Speaker
he like has been outstanding Jordan has been so good when he's been able to be on the field and looked good before this injury and I think the The thing that is worth remembering, and I was thinking about this the other day, trying to think through how
Striker Position Depth Chart Debate
00:38:54
Speaker
like how should the Sounders handle this with him coming back, and you've got two good strikers ostensibly behind him.
00:39:04
Speaker
The injury is not to a soccer part of his body, really. Like, You use your whole body when you run, but this isn't like a muscle injury that you're worried about him re-aggravating or something. The concern is fitness.
00:39:23
Speaker
So maybe for the first couple games, he isn't starting and you're working him back up to like, maybe it's, he plays 20 to 30 minutes against Miami off the bench and maybe he can play a half in the next game.
00:39:40
Speaker
um But I think if, you know, in the hypothetical, it's the playoffs and he's healthy, you start Jordan. just as
00:39:53
Speaker
Danny Masofsky gives you goals and he gives you work rate, but Jordan can open... the entire field up in a way that no one else on the team can because no one had like right yeah nobody else has the speed that he has and he mixes it with strength and like a good shot he makes good runs he reads the game well like Jordan is your best nine in a big game you play your best players
00:40:26
Speaker
Yeah. ah i think I think you hit on it right there. Like it's, he allows you to create danger in just more ways than, uh,
00:40:41
Speaker
than Moose, which, you know, it's it's it qualifies as a good problem to have. It's kind of crazy that we're talking about a guy who has 15 goals, all comps, as potentially being the being number two on the um the depth chart. but I think one one other thing I would add with Jordan is that, like, for all that I think, you know, Osaze has...
00:41:07
Speaker
surprising speed like he is i was gonna say he's got some like he's got like more jordan-like qualities than i thought yeah and i think it happens with a lot of guys who are built like osaze where you look at them and you don't necessarily think they're going to be fast because they're big and they're pretty like sturdily built but he's got real long legs and he's a fit athletic dude he can make those legs move pretty fast and they cover a lot of ground but there still have been lots of times where like to their credit danny and osaze make the damn run each time when someone plays a through ball but
00:41:51
Speaker
you have several guys who, like especially going back to ah midfield attacking three of De La Vega, Rusnak, and Ferreira, all three of those guys really like to hit like a slip pass or a through ball or you know one of Christian's strengths is that ball over the top into space. like Jordan is just going to make more happen with those than the other guys and a guy who makes the most out of the strengths of the other players on their team is also a real value add that gets into the force multiplier thing that Garth likes to talk about.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, however they end up ah handling it as we move forward here, I think, you know, it's exciting to have Jordan back. He he's looked every time he's played this year.
00:42:43
Speaker
He's looked fantastic. So I'm excited to see ah with how well this team has been playing on offense lately, what it could look like with him getting back in there. We saw that. We said that when he was coming off. the hamstring injury and unfortunately he took a tumble busted his shoulder and was in his first game back uh so here's the help hoping he stays healthy and we can actually see what a healthy fit and informed jordan morris can do to this attack all right we're going to take an ad break real quick ah but we will be right back and dive into our agenda check
00:43:14
Speaker
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00:46:23
Speaker
Welcome back from the ad break that you definitely did not skip. We got Tim Foss, sounder at heart, writer extraordinaire, filling in for Noah on the show. And he's going to be going through this agenda check with us today. We've got five written down. Tim, are you ready?
00:46:42
Speaker
Absolutely. All right, let's do it. The first one we're going to check in on is the Andy T should be the starter agenda, which is one that we've been tracking for a while, kind of dating back to Andy T's initial emergence but uh this is relevant today tim because uh another tidbit that jo put out from training he's uh posted on blue sky today brian schmetzer isn't ready to say to name a starting goalkeeper for the rest of the season called it a quote unique situation since he's been in charge where there's genuine competition for the starting spot same thing at a couple of other spots although and obviously not as acute and then he says i suspect thomas starts on saturday which is the game against the galaxy uh what do you uh what do you think of this situation because it is ah like schmidt said it's a unique one you've got a guy who is not just the starter but like a long time starter and a club legend as the starter mls cup mvp
00:47:41
Speaker
won all the trophies, you've all the trophies you've won up until this Leagues Cup one. He's been the one who's in goal making these big saves and really become one of the best signings that this her trade acquisitions that this club has ever made for sure.
00:47:57
Speaker
ah But then you've got Andy T, the heir apparent who was absolutely huge in League's Cup, named goalkeeper of the tournament, won a penalty shootout for you.
00:48:11
Speaker
And but like it's everyone knows that the the transition great. looming at at some point soon. But I guess the question is with how Andrew Thomas looked in league's cup, should he be the new like first choice 11 starter or does that job go right back to fry? How would how would you handle this one?
00:48:37
Speaker
More so than I think any of the other like position players, Questions. This one is so tough and feel like each time there is a situation where it's sort of like, Oh, Andrew Thomas played really good. Should he be the starting goalkeeper?
00:48:56
Speaker
My sense is like, well, no, because you still have Stefan Fry and he's to your point, not only the starting keeper, he's a club legend. Like you gotta keep,
00:49:12
Speaker
rocking with Steph. And then the League's Cup run, the, you know, the shootout.
00:49:24
Speaker
The games against the Galaxy and Miami, and he started to show not just like He can do some of the spectacular things. He can win you a shootout.
00:49:38
Speaker
He can make the saves that a goalkeeper needs to make. And he makes some saves that you hope that a goalkeeper might make.
00:49:50
Speaker
And he's starting to, you know, with a run of games and more experience, he's better at organizing his defense. He's coming out and controlling the box more.
00:50:03
Speaker
I think especially with Steph's head injury and not that like he looks completely past it, but the last few seasons there have been here and there moments where it's like a goalkeeper in his prime probably makes that play or like doesn't make that error.
00:50:33
Speaker
It's it's such a tough call to make, especially because, you know, with like the scary scene around his head injury, you really want a player like Steph to. Kind of be the one who decides when he like steps back from being the number one and maybe the situation is sort of shared.
00:50:59
Speaker
sort of similar to like Albert Rusnak probably isn't going to start every single game from here until the end of the season. Maybe Steph Fry, when it's a two game week, plays one of those games and Andy T takes the midweek or like whatever cadence they end up rolling into. Like you kind of have to keep playing the hot hand and you at the same time have to
00:51:30
Speaker
give Steph credit for what he has done for you, not just over his career, but this season as well. Like, I don't think he's just going to get shelved, but I don't think Andy T is going to be directly handed the starting spot.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's going to be, ah I mean, Schmetz was alluding to it today. Like, this this is a tough one and for a coach. i don't ah I don't envy having to make that call. I guess what I would say is that ah if they if they want to go back to Fry as the number one for the rest of this season, that's fine. I have no issue with that.
00:52:09
Speaker
He's earned that equity. Yeah. But I think you do, if you're going to do that, you do have to find spots to give Andy T some run because ah he also has earned that. And you also, he's going to be the starter in the future.
00:52:29
Speaker
So you need to get him. Honestly, I think as many reps as it's feasible to get to sort of prepare him to actually take over the role. And then I think next year, like regardless of what happens, it should be Andy T's job with Fry's said he wants to play next year, which I mean, that's awesome. He should play as long as he wants.
00:52:52
Speaker
But I would say, think next year you, you actually kind of have to commit to the transition more and have it be a situation where Andy T is the starter in her first choice 11. And then when have, well,
00:53:07
Speaker
Like, ah you know, maybe you flip it so Fry's the one who takes it during League's Cup or something like that. I think an arrangement like that would be fine. But ah yeah as for what they're going to do with it for the rest of this year, where I guess we're just going to find out because I don't know. i don't know if there's like a there's not an obvious answer. You can make arguments both ways.
00:53:31
Speaker
Right. And I think for, you know, to your point, I think the conversation in three months is very different from the one right now. And I think it's possible that in three months, the conversation is like, Steph has talked about, you know, the work of having his body ready for training and for games and how much work that is. And,
00:53:54
Speaker
like he gets up X early because he takes the ferry over to then get to training and all of this stuff. And like, if they're saying, hey Thomas is the starter this year. you can have leagues cup and like whatever additional cups, like those are yours. Andrew thomas is the starter us.
00:54:21
Speaker
starter for us Is that enough? Does like that and a sort of not necessarily a goalkeeper coach, but like mentorship transition to a coaching role appeal to him? Like those are conversations I imagine are starting to happen now, but will happen and the off season. But yeah, for now, there's no, no clear, obvious answer.
00:54:50
Speaker
All right, let's check in on the um RBW agenda. There's been ah different junctures of this season where some have argued that he should take over the starting left back spot.
00:55:03
Speaker
I think that was more of a thing when the knew who antics were in full force and he was getting suspended all the time and getting a bunch of red cards. And we were like, is it time for RBW ah knew who?
00:55:15
Speaker
has ah has gotten back in Schmetzer's good graces and I think has been in good form and relatively good behavior for the last few weeks at least. And it seems like he's re-cemented himself as the starter.
00:55:28
Speaker
ah But Tim, I'll let you cook on this one. You brought it to the table. How are you feeling about RBW and should he be ah starter on this team? I personally think that Reed Baker Whiting is not like your ideal, perfect left back.
00:55:47
Speaker
But for this Sounders team for the rest of this season, i think he should be the starter. um
00:55:58
Speaker
I think even when New Who is playing his best... He just doesn't give you a ton truthfully in possession or going forward. Like you can see the way other teams defend when knew who is on the field. And if he gets the ball, the other team is more than happy for that to be the case because he just.
00:56:28
Speaker
Can't hit a lot of passes like the. Pass selection he is able to execute is pretty limited by the mechanics of the way he kicks the ball.
00:56:40
Speaker
He can't really pass with his right foot. He doesn't shape passes especially well. And when you watch him, he seems to really have to like, think and decide on the pass to hit.
00:56:54
Speaker
He doesn't wait passes, especially well where he doesn't really lead players with passes.
Reed Baker Whiting's Potential as a Starter
00:57:01
Speaker
He hits a pass that gets to their feet, which theoretically is a good thing, but generally when you're playing a ball to a winger who is attacking space, you want him to be able to run and then keep running rather than having to like stop to receive the ball and start again.
00:57:20
Speaker
um
00:57:22
Speaker
Other teams are more than happy to let him have the ball so they can close other passing options or wait until he inevitably passes the ball back and then they press the person that he passes the ball back to Reed Baker Whiting is not left footed.
00:57:38
Speaker
That creates some difficulties, but you don't have those same issues with him. When Pedro de la Vega started being played on the left wing and was...
00:57:50
Speaker
going nuts and looking like the kind of designated player left winger that the Sounders clearly thought and hoped he would be One of the things that Schmetzer said after one of those games was that truthfully with new who at left back, they didn't feel comfortable playing Pedro there one because With Nuhu at left back, you have to have someone who is going to cover a lot of his deficiencies out there, but also knew who just doesn't play in a way that utilizes Pedro as well.
00:58:27
Speaker
You play him on the right wing and Christian, or sorry, Alex can theoretically like play to his strengths a little bit more. With Reed on the field, Reed helps you get the best out of what might be your best player at his best position.
00:58:44
Speaker
And I think from that perspective, especially going into the playoffs where like, sometimes it is i like stalemate and you need a guy who can do something magical.
00:58:58
Speaker
Your best chance of having someone do something magical is Pedro de la Vega at his peak. And so I think like it it behooves the team to play the players in positions that allow that to happen.
00:59:15
Speaker
You present you present the compelling argument. I'd be curious to see if people have thoughts. Go ahead and leave them in the in the comments. With RBW, think the story this season has kind of been... He he certainly is a much more...
00:59:32
Speaker
dynamic attacking threat from that position than knew who ah but it's kind of it's been a give and take because rbw's issues this season have been stuff on the defensive side like his uh uh his positioning and his his 1v1 defending at times but i will say what was so encouraging about what we've seen from him recently is that it looks like he's uh getting better at that he's developed that that skill which i was i always thought that uh the type of stuff that he was struggling with when he was struggling with it is stuff that can be coached and improved on it's not necessarily stuff that's innate to him that he can't
01:00:14
Speaker
fix So I think if RBW continues to develop that two-way skill set and defensively, then you theoretically have a player who you know can give you similar to what Nuhu does defensively, but then also have the dynamic attacking threat on top of it.
01:00:34
Speaker
i do i mean I do think that ah in the last few weeks, since he's been on a Good Behavior, New who is kind of has demonstrated the value that Schmetz season him and why Schmetz seems like he's never going to remove him as the first choice starter. I think these matchups with the galaxy are kind of a good example of it.
01:00:56
Speaker
Like, uh, I know he got the red card in the in the League's Cup one, but I mean, he absolutely every time they've played the Galaxy over the last two years, he's owned Gabriel Peck. He's taken him out of the game entirely.
01:01:10
Speaker
Does RBW have the same ah aptitude to completely eliminate one of the teams other teams opposing attackers? ah he might He might, but we haven't seen that yet in the way that we have from Nuhu. So i I don't know. i'm i'm not I'm not fully there on what you're saying. I do think the De La Vega aspect of it is a good point that I hadn't really thought about that much as far as...
01:01:34
Speaker
how much how how you can kind of do more stuff with him when it's when he's combined with RBW as opposed to Nuhu. So I kind of see it as it stands as, ah you know, maybe it's like a matchup-based situation where if you're at home and really trying to get on the front foot,
01:01:54
Speaker
early and push for some push for some goals. You go with RBW if you're on the road and you have a matchup with a specific attacker. You go with Nuhu. I do think that ah we have enough evidence at this point to know that it is just going to be Nuhu. I don't think your agenda is going to come to fruition, unfortunately.
01:02:16
Speaker
but mean i like I think the Miami game would sort of be the... counter to that that like reed baker whiter whiting started at left back against miami and messi didn't really do much like no real threat came from reed baker whiting's side he won seven of nine duels like he had the miami right side in hell He did. He did. And that was very encouraging to see. Because, I mean, I think you're you're right. Like, in the Miami game, he was fantastic on on both sides of the ball.
01:02:53
Speaker
I wouldn't say that's necessarily been the case all season. Like, it's the it's sort of a recent development, the the strides that we've that we've seen on that side of the ball.
01:03:05
Speaker
So, I guess, I just want to see a little more before I fully... I think I think there's definitely like.
01:03:17
Speaker
Reed has not played a ton, and so. Without like goals and assists to draw a ton of attention, the thing that tends to draw attention are the mistakes at the same time, Nuhu plays a lot and makes a lot of mistakes that turn into either him getting sent off or the other team scoring goals.
01:03:39
Speaker
And people just sort of like pass those off as like, well, but he shielded the ball out from 35 yards and that was fun to watch. And he did a sort of bicycle kick to clear the ball for no reason. And I liked that and I could see that happen on TikTok.
01:03:55
Speaker
Like, I i think Reed for all that like, people will call me a new who hater and i like whatever but like people pay a lot more attention broadly speaking to reed's errors and mistakes than they seem to to new who's because new who is a cult figure like i if you go with the like a fuller view of what both players offer.
01:04:27
Speaker
i don't think you really are getting the bang for your buck with new who that a lot of people think they are. Regardless, that might not be like for all that I would love read to be the starting left back going forward this season. And then maybe they find a true left footed left back, but In the future, we might just spend a not insignificant chunk of the remainder of the season without Reid as an option, because it seems like he's probably going to go to the U-20 World Cup.
01:05:02
Speaker
And so, too, is Obed. yeah So how like how do you think the Sounders cope with... those absences in particular, especially in light of, we were talking earlier about, you know, Snyder Brunel's advancement and development in the team and Danny Leyva looking better. And if you have to cover for one of the double pivots, you feel okay. But if you're in a situation where Obed's away at the U20 World Cup, which at minimum, I believe those guys are going to miss three games and potentially five if their teams advance to the final.
01:05:41
Speaker
um That's a long time to be without either of those guys and it could and pose a real real issue for the back at half but or five games of the season because I think that runs through the end of regular season.
01:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, no, the U-20 World Cup thing is ah is a good point. That's something that's going to have to be reckoned with, dealt with. Supposedly, JP, that was another update from today. Supposedly, JP is pretty close to making his return from... ah but They thought he tore his ACL. Turned out he didn't tear his ACL.
01:06:18
Speaker
He's been working his way back to fitness. So hopefully they can get him back in the next like couple weeks. And that can, that can help a potential Obed absence.
01:06:28
Speaker
And then I think yeah also Snyder Brunel is going to have to step up. He's probably going to get a lot more run for however long Obed has gone. The left back one. I mean,
01:06:42
Speaker
like who I mean, who's third on the depth chart there right now? John Bell. Yeah, so I think it'll be a new-who-John Bell rotation for as long as RBW is out, which I think i think it's fine. It is... ah RBW is the best attacking player out of the bunch and that can, uh, that can add a whole new element to the attack.
01:07:06
Speaker
So yeah, I hadn't thought about the U 20 world cup thing that much, but that is, does that is real. And it will touch on this probably some more in a couple agenda items, but, uh,
01:07:22
Speaker
add some possible urgency to getting both of those guys signed to new deals. Yeah. Possibly getting them like, I mean, getting both of them on you 22 deals, maybe just if they both go to the U 20 world cup, U 20 world cup is a pretty big shopping window for teams. Like that's a, for all that playing in a League's Cup final against Messi is a big stage.
01:07:52
Speaker
It's a larger global stage, even if it is an age group World Cup. You know, wouldn't be totally surprised if offers come for either or both of those guys after the fact. And from a negotiating standpoint, Sounders want to be in the best position they can.
01:08:12
Speaker
They got to get those guys signed. um Something to watch over the next month. um ah Real quick for the people. I think you could explain this better than me.
01:08:25
Speaker
Why does it make sense for them to sign Obed as U22 even if there's all this transfer? I think people are wondering this. like There's all this transfer rumors and they're going to sell them. Why sign them as So it...
01:08:39
Speaker
so it helps for a couple reasons one i would have to look at exactly how much time is left on obed's contract but signing him to a new contract you have he's under club control for ah longer period of time the sounders are in a better negotiating position in terms of like the transfer fee they're able to receive because another team can't just wait until they can
01:09:10
Speaker
to a Bozeman deal with six months left on his contract and he moves for free or, you know, the Sounders take a lower deal because they don't want to run into that position.
01:09:25
Speaker
um it also helps to secure Obed's position in contract negotiations with whatever team he moves to, because if he's, you know, he's currently making contracts,
01:09:41
Speaker
150,000 like I don't know what his current deal is but if he was a U22 I think he could be making like close to 800,000 if you're making 800,000 and signing a deal with a European team in a big five league much easier to say like double my money where if you say double my money and you're making $200,000 the money you're making when you double that is a lot less and you know Taxes and stuff when you move to Europe are a substantial factor. And, you know, you want to make sure the player is taken care of financially.
01:10:19
Speaker
it also... has value from a player development standpoint because you can then turn to the players you are developing internally and show not only do we have this like well-established and effective pathway from academy to defiance to the first team that like if you are a player that could potentially reach the first team, you're going to have a real chance of doing that. And when you get there, to have a real chance of playing because we have invested in you and you've invested in this process. But also if you prove that like you can make it to the first team. And then once you're in the first team, you're not only one of the best players in the team, but one of the best players in the league, then we are not going to stand in your way
01:11:10
Speaker
to move to Europe, but we're also and going to make sure that like you are well taken care of, you are well paid, you are in a position that demonstrates how much we value you, that also makes sure that whatever team comes values you similarly. so there are logistical reasons as well as motivational reasons earlier in your pipeline.
01:11:39
Speaker
All right, we are going to take another ad break, but we are going to be right back to close it out with ah three more agendas.
01:11:49
Speaker
Welcome back from another ad ad break that you definitely did not skip. Tim, we got three more of these to get through, and then we'll call it a day. Thank you again so much for hosting and pinch hitting here.
01:12:02
Speaker
It's much appreciated. been ah It's been great catching up with you. I feel, you know, we're always popping off on the group chat, but I haven't like sat down and caught up with you on the squad in a while. So this is great. why don't Why don't I pitch this agenda to you and you can yeah okay jump?
01:12:18
Speaker
Brian Schmetzer's dynasty. ah We have had lots of conversations in the Sounders community at large about like where Brian Schmetzer stands in sort of the pantheon of MLS coaches, of American coaches, ah Sounders coaches. Like the man who preceded him has the MLS coach of the year award named after him, the Ziggy Schmidt coach of the year award.
01:12:47
Speaker
Brian Schmetzer has never won it despite the trophies and accolades he's earned. Where do you think Schmetzer's dynasty ranks among others? And where do the Sounders stand as a full-on dynasty? Do they have a genuine claim to that sort of title?
01:13:10
Speaker
Yeah. First of all, I think that This League's Cup should end the, whether it's a debate, if they're ah dynasty. i think you you ah it's a topic that's been broached before when they won the when one MLS Cups and then followed that up by winning Champions League.
01:13:29
Speaker
And I think there was one school of thought that it's like, Well, maybe it's not quite a dynasty yet because I think when people think dynasty three championships is what come to mind and they only had only had two and MLS cups.
01:13:43
Speaker
But I don't know. I mean, they had been to four in that span and then also winning Champions League, which I think is um that's a more. Higher degree of difficulty trophy to win than MLS Cup. And it had the historic aspect of well as well. So I think the 22 Champions League, in my opinion, cemented them as a dynasty. But there was more there was more of a debate to be had there.
01:14:07
Speaker
But I think winning this tournament, filling out the trophy case, which becoming the first team to win every trophy. And also I've been saying like,
01:14:19
Speaker
the The significance of the win over Miami, it was about it was about the trophy, tying off the trophy case and all that. ah But to me, it's like regardless of what significance you put on the trophy, the way they did it and who they did it against is what makes it such a kind of historic significant match.
01:14:41
Speaker
trophy i mean everyone in the fan base is going to remember that game forever it was a crazy spectacle spectacle you were literally playing against the greatest team of or the greatest player of all time and on a team that people thought was the most loaded and mls roster of all time and you worked them so bad in the final that they crashed out you caused a suarez crash out so uh all of that combined is to say i think this is definitely the uh and MLS dynasty of this era.
01:15:12
Speaker
I don't think there's any doubt about that at this point. And even, even if it only stays at two MLS cups for the next like two or three years, I think this, this decade, I mean, we're talking about almost a decade, right? Since they've won that first MLS cup over this roughly a decade, this is the preeminent and MLS dynasty and the, and the league's cup title cemented that ah as for As for Schmetz, I don't know. it's I feel like as long as he's coaching the Sounders, there's going to be this sort of undertone in some circles of like,
01:15:51
Speaker
you know, could he do it somewhere else? I saw pundits kind of debating this after they won League's Cup, like, and they were talking about where Schmetzer ranks in the Pantheon, and there was still, still that kind of, like, well, he's sort of a product of his environment, he's always been given these really good teams, and and but until we ever saw him do it in another setting, it's kind of hard to rank him, which I can understand, like,
01:16:17
Speaker
like where that thought comes from and to some extent. But I also think like when we're talking about the amount of winning that we're talking about here and we're talking about the type of trophy case that he has accumulated, which includes CONCACAF champions league,
01:16:34
Speaker
ah it's pretty undeniable. And then also, I mean, you and i we we follow it up close, but as far as his acumen with the with the fine points of coaching, i think I think he's probably underrated as an X's and O's tactics guy.
01:16:53
Speaker
I think that's something that gets talked about in a way that I... don't necessarily always agree with where people are like, well, all he does is run the four, two, three, one, and and he has these good players. It's not like he has to do anything.
01:17:05
Speaker
I mean, we've seen like ah some, some tactical game planning execution masterclasses from this team over the years. Leagues cup, there was, it was masterclass after masterclass.
01:17:18
Speaker
You have to give the whole coaching staff credit for that, but you have to give Schmetzer, credit for that as well and then also in terms of like man management and you know managing the uh the egos and the personalities and stuff that come with being the coach of a professional team i think he's second to none uh the The vibes you create are such an underrated, important part of being a coach.
01:17:46
Speaker
And he's a master at it. He's the best I've ever seen at it. like And, you know, part of that is part of that colored by the fact that he's the one that I've been covering for all this time. Yeah, but I think even from the outside, you would have to acknowledge like that what he's been able to do in that regard is pretty incredible.
01:18:06
Speaker
So, I mean, i think in the, ah in the Pantheon, Bruce and Bruce and Ziggy are always going to be up there in the, in the top of that discussion.
01:18:18
Speaker
But I think, I think Schmetz is right there. I'll say like at this point with this league's cup win and more than that, like who was against how they did it.
01:18:30
Speaker
Uh, it is a dynasty and he's also, he's in the top three MLS coaches ever. I I'll say that if someone wanted to argue Bruce and Ziggy for their historical impact and the amount of winning that they both did in their own right, I don't think it's like an outlandish take, but you gotta have Schmetz in there.
01:18:50
Speaker
Yeah. I think the sort of only like framing of the last 10 years for the Sounders where you can make an argument that they're not a dynasty is if you're putting like very narrow parameters on you have to have done like x Y, and z within.
01:19:13
Speaker
be like the last time there was a real conversation around are the Sounders a dynasty was the. Cocker calf champions league win the.
01:19:25
Speaker
that case people were making was that it has to be in a five-year window, which seems particularly arbitrary, but also, frank like, based on the amount of turnover most teams go through in that period. And one of the things that I think contributes to the amount of sex success that the team has had over this period is how relatively little...
01:19:53
Speaker
change and turnover there's been like there has been ah fair amount but there are so many like threads you can follow through the entire period whether it's christian and jordan and steph and you know since 2020 twenty 20 in 2021 you've had jackson reagan and jamar and knew who's been in there and alex rolled on and all of these guys who like lots of the team around them has changed but you still have this core identity and so much of that is a product of schmetzer and like
01:20:39
Speaker
kind of, i when the Brian Schmetzer coach of the year stuff was happening after the leagues cup final, I kind of was getting into it with Matt Doyle just because for all that, like Doyle absolutely gives Schmetzer his flowers and has throughout, even when he's giving his flowers, there is still this like, but he,
01:21:06
Speaker
really was in like a great position when he came into the role, which like, sure, true. He also took over a team in last place. And, you know, the adage of you can ignore everything that comes after the, but in a sentence, like if your case is like, well, everything I said before is all well and good, but he came into a plum situation and like,
01:21:31
Speaker
there is this seem to want to have it both ways. When people talk about Schmetzer that like him having been at the Sounders is like both a great thing and like set him up for success, but also devalues.
01:21:52
Speaker
He doesn't get credit for creating the, how much he created that good situation. And I, I think that like, him as a man manager. And I get frustrated about this all the time because like Carlo Ancelotti and Zinedine Zidane are praised and beloved for largely being successful at Real Madrid as man managers. It's the most important part of the job. That's when people say, Oh, he's more of a man manager.
01:22:22
Speaker
Like Zidane hasn't done it anywhere else. He's only done it at Madrid. but he's still like the man to take over for France and all of these things. And like, I think especially, you know, I had my piece come out this week about sort of how the Sounders way is built from a developmental perspective. And I talked to Wade Weber about this and realizing talking to him, like Schmetzer's man management is like,
01:22:52
Speaker
I think so often we think of head coaches or managers as like, it's a special thing when it's sports, but really a manager does the same thing, whether it's your boss in an office or on a soccer team. And that's making sure that like everyone is up in a position with the resources they need to like perform at their best.
01:23:20
Speaker
And Schmetzer doesn't just do that with the players in the first team. He is making sure that the guys coming up through the development system have what they need to contribute when he gets there. He's making sure that all of his staff, his assistant coaches, the technical staff around them have all of the information and have his trust that like they're going to do a good job.
01:23:44
Speaker
um Like the entire way the Sounders from a soccer perspective runs. is successful because brian schmetzer like makes sure that it is supported and like fostered in such a way that it is successful and even though he's not like the most rah-rah play the kids like i'm gonna play 27 18 year all season long like
01:24:15
Speaker
He is a key part of the Sounders development system because he plays the kids when they're ready to play. Like he is only starting to get credit for some of that now, but like Christian Roldan has been a starter for the entire time he's been a head coach. Like Christian Roldan was 20 or 21 when Schmetzer took over. That's still a young guy. Like I,
01:24:45
Speaker
Schmetzer's dynasty will live on eternally. He will be buried with terracotta statues of all of his players. Everybody go check out Tim's piece but on Sounder at Heart about a the Seattle way. I'll put the link in the description.
01:25:01
Speaker
It's really good stuff. And subscribe to ah Sounder at Heart. What about real quick? What about the argument, like, ah regarding coach of the year stuff? One of the arguments I hear is that he probably hasn't won coach of the year ever because ah for all the success and the winning and the trophies, Seattle, they haven't really had, like, one of those regular seasons where they rack, like, 65, 70 points, like regular season where it's like,
01:25:31
Speaker
65 plus points in a plus 48 goal differential Seattle. ah They're not, they're not typically in the shield mix like that. And that's probably because they haven't had a lot of spectacular regular seasons like that.
01:25:46
Speaker
That's why he's not, hasn't been in the coach of the year mix as much. do you, ah do you see any credence to that argument?
01:25:55
Speaker
I get the argument that,
01:25:59
Speaker
I think it sucks. I also think like, i don't know, an individual award for a job that is not an individual job is a little silly. Like part of the reason that Brian Schmetzer doesn't win the award is that like,
01:26:20
Speaker
He gives his assistants a lot of ownership of the parts that they are responsible for and trusts them. And so he's not like the tactics guy or whatever.
01:26:34
Speaker
And also his teams aren't bad. The infrastructure around him is good. So there's never like a really punching above their weight situation, even when like going back to Matt Doyle 2021, where the Sounders don't have Jordan Morris. They've got a couple other injuries. I think Nico misses a bunch of time that year and they change formation.
01:27:05
Speaker
They go to the three, five, to whatever or however they lined up, but they moved to a like permanent three back situation and play really well out of this totally different starting position.
01:27:21
Speaker
and he gets like some recognition as a possible coach of the year candidate in that one. i think coach of the year is just set up in such a way that either you have to coach a really bad team that then does better than you expect.
01:27:39
Speaker
Like Ben Olsen won it one year at DC because they had historic year over year points increase because the year before they had had a historically bad season.
01:27:51
Speaker
And then we're like mid and the one year where the Sounders have missed the playoffs. It was because they won champions league. And then stacked injury on injury on injury and just like crumbled as they headed towards the finish line outside of that year that doesn't happen and so they're like they're a team that is built to compete in MLS where you don't like almost any player you ever talk Schmetzer anyone else they will talk about like you don't want the highs to get too high and you don't want the lows to get too low and the Sounders really live in that spot where like
01:28:31
Speaker
They're trying to hit highs while making sure that the bottom doesn't fall out and the bottom doesn't fall out. And that means that they get to the playoffs and they put up a good fight when they get there. They have a defensible run in all the tournaments that they're in but they don't like outside of 2014, they don't stack points. And even in 2014, like,
01:28:57
Speaker
There's always some other insane circumstance for someone to either put up a crazy season or outperform a terrible expectation. Or i think the term Doyle was using was like, they have a meta shifting or paradigm shifting tactical change. That is the reason that like Wilfred Nancy gets the amount of love that he does. Mikey Varas at San Diego is in the conversation this year.
01:29:27
Speaker
For a combination of all of those things, like.
01:29:33
Speaker
you You have to hope that like someone else doesn't have a unicorn season and you do to win coach of the year.
01:29:45
Speaker
This year, I think, is arguably his strongest case yet. I don't think they're going give it to him. They don't have the and don't have the courage. But, I mean, i don't i don't think there's any other coach in the league who could get hit with the amount of injuries that he got hit with this year and still get the results that he's gotten.
01:30:05
Speaker
i mean, the League's Cup final, they're starting their third string striker. And their DP, number 10, is also injured. and two of the two of the like big exciting wingers that they brought in are unavailable due to injury one of them missed the entire season yeah all sorts of things I think the one like and think they'd have to go on some insane run where they win the next seven league games to close out the season and suddenly are in like I don't even know if that would put them in
01:30:45
Speaker
It'd put them in relative shield vicinity, but you know, maybe next season, if they like do a big roster overhaul and he's able to like just reload and go again without skipping a beat, maybe that gets them, gets him a look, which I think takes us to the next agenda point where,
01:31:11
Speaker
which is we know there could be some big outbound moves in the offseason, but agenda check, Georgie Manungu could be an underrated transfer target.
01:31:26
Speaker
Yeah, cook on this one. You were bringing it up when we were playing in the show. And I was like, you know, I have thought about that a little bit, but not ah not that extensively. and But I do think like when you're when you're talking about the physical gifts that are very evident and it's just like the end product that needs to get developed, if that end product gets there, I mean, scouts drool over the physical profile. So is is that kind of what got you thinking on this?
01:31:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think Georgie, like if you look at, you know, I think everyone is to some extent, I assume, especially if they're listening to this show or consuming Sounder at Heart, they're familiar with like the FB ref scouting reports and green bars are good. Red bars are bad.
01:32:16
Speaker
Georgie is just a green bar machine. Like I haven't looked at the at those in a while. I got to check it out. And there is a sample size issue here He's 751 MLS minutes over the last Like he's got just over five hundred this season five hundred and forty four minutes in mls um he's he's at like
01:32:43
Speaker
600 all comps minutes with the first team. And in that time, he's got goal and three assists. Like he's not lighting the world on fire, but he's got... He's 99th percentile for progressive passes received for touches in the attacking penalty area, uh, for successful take-ons for progressive carries, uh, 99th percentile for expected assisted goals, uh, with 0.4 X per 90.
01:33:17
Speaker
Like he gets a ton of shots. He takes or averages three shots per 90, um He does the things that you want attacking players to do. Like he's a very specific type of attacking player, but he has parlayed these performances into a trip to world cup qualifying for Burkina Faso.
01:33:46
Speaker
He appeared in both of those games, including like he played 20 minutes against Egypt and where they kind of like they needed to get a result, at least. That game ended 0-0, but he got a real look. He could really have a chance to play for them in October again during the international window, where they play their last two World Cup qualifying matches with a chance to either secure a position to play for a playoff spot to go to the World Cup, or if they can...
01:34:20
Speaker
miraculously climb above Egypt in their group. They could qualify directly. you could play AFCON. I think if he continues to show the promise that he has with the Sounders, and I know he's a frustrating player for lots of people for a number of reasons, but if he keeps creating chances when he's on the field, turning some of those into actual production,
01:34:50
Speaker
and goes to AFCON, maybe it's a like cash transfer in the league, or some lower-level European team comes for him.
Georgie Manungu's Transfer Prospect and Player Development
01:35:03
Speaker
like I don't think he's going to be a huge transfer, but I think the Sounders could conceivably turn Georgie Manungu into $2 million dollars dollar transfer. And again,
01:35:16
Speaker
that just shows for other players either coming through the academy or coming to defiance from wherever else whether that's like an asazete rosario or whatever that like the sounders are a team who will help you get to the places that you want to go George is, he's getting better when, when he hit that goal against ah Santos Laguna before he got the the Christ yellow and got, got sent off.
01:35:49
Speaker
Worth it. Totally worth it. And also I think it was just, a like it shows that he's got that end product in his bag. It's just a matter of tapping into it more consistently.
01:36:02
Speaker
And if he if he does start tapping into that more consistently, it's going to be it's going to be scary. I mean, we've seen it all season. Like guys can't really stay in front of him. Like if he wants to get around you, he's going to get around you.
01:36:18
Speaker
And, you know, he obviously, he made the biggest play of the league's cup final, I think when he drew that penalty. I think we're going to forget about it over time, but those 20 or 30 minutes in the second half before he drew that penalty, it was feeling dicey. I was pretty sure that Inter-Miami was going to equalize it, and and then he makes a huge play to draw the penalty and ice the game, which that was such another such a cool part of that game is how –
01:36:51
Speaker
he He makes that play to ice the game. Paul Rothrock obviously scores the the game winner. Obed, and who's ah who's a homegrown guy, and Christian, who's essentially a homegrown guy at this point, like teaming up to shut down Messi.
01:37:05
Speaker
ah Just how much internal development went into that performance was pretty cool, and Georgie was a ah big part of that.
Measuring Sounders' Success Beyond Trophies
01:37:12
Speaker
uh all right tim we got just one more here let's uh let's blast through this and then we'll uh we'll get out of here for this episode know i wanted to ask your take on one that uh noah and i talked about on the uh on the last show which i think is going to be something that is sort of talked about through the rest uh the rest of this season and into the playoffs here Uh, the 2025 season is already a success agenda.
01:37:37
Speaker
Uh, it's one we were thinking about and I know there's gonna, there's a lot of people who are going to say, you know, if you don't win every trophy, then it's an abject failure uh, or whatever.
01:37:48
Speaker
But I, I mean, the way I see it is, i don't know. I feel I'm not going to say house money, not going to say house money for the playoffs, but But if they got – say they have like a similar playoff run as they did last year where they make a decent little run of it but then get knocked out in the conference final.
01:38:08
Speaker
would that Would that be like the end of the world after you got a trophy that the way you did ah beating Messi on your home field causing them to crash out, start a brawl?
01:38:19
Speaker
and Like to me, that game was everything that I – want from, from doing this. And if they give me those, once a year, that's a great average.
01:38:31
Speaker
And, uh, we got a great one this year. And so I, I feel like there's a little less pressure on the playoffs in that way. Is that, am I, am I preemptively coping or do you think there's something to that?
01:38:44
Speaker
No, I think there's something to that. I think, you can always say like, we're not peating for the shield and MLS cup. It's not a success.
01:38:57
Speaker
And you can like hold yourself to that standard as a club and as a fan, like there's nothing wrong with being unreasonable to a certain extent. Like that's probably, I'm going to get annoyed at you and I'm going mute you and you're going to scream in my mentions without me ever knowing it.
01:39:14
Speaker
But like, that's your choice, whatever. but I think it's, you know, if you play like, don't call it by its real name. If you play FIFA and you have a like manager career mode, you have like tiered objectives that you want to hit every season. And if you hit a few of those, but you don't hit all of them, like you're not going to get fired. You're going to keep it moving. And hopefully you hit all of them the next season. And,
01:39:46
Speaker
You won a trophy. You...
01:39:52
Speaker
You know... CCC was a little frustrating. you showed well at the Club World Cup. And... If you make a good playoff run and you like fall at the final hurdle, it's going to be really frustrating. People are going be upset about it, but like that's still a good season.
01:40:12
Speaker
and especially if the trophy that you won was in front of a packed home stadium where you had the largest crowd you've ever had to watch a Sounders game.
01:40:27
Speaker
You won that game against Lionel Messi and all of his friends with Inter-Miami. And you did it with a way that like was not just like you held on and snagged a penalty goal to win it.
01:40:48
Speaker
Like you played good, exciting football on both sides of the field. Like you like holistically demonstrated your style and approach.
01:41:03
Speaker
You did it with a ton of internally developed players, like you were saying earlier. Like, it's not just the guys who came through the Academy and the guys who came through Defiance.
01:41:15
Speaker
It's guys who you drafted, guys who have spent their entire professional career playing for you, guys who played for you, one something, left, won a bunch of stuff, and then came back like Kim Keehee.
01:41:33
Speaker
You know, it is You won this trophy in the Sounders way. You have developed players.
01:41:45
Speaker
internally throughout this season and you have been able to then trust them when you bring them into big games like the reason there was concern that Christian might not be able to play or at least might not be able to start against Miami is that he was the mystery player who Schmetzer took off earlier than you would expect because he came off with like 20 minutes left to play against the galaxy they brought Snyder Brunel on because Brian Schmetzer trusts him to not just do his job, but like to help the team win a game.
01:42:24
Speaker
And he did because he's a good player. Like all of the boxes are being checked. And I think for all that, like in a theoretical world where they have an okay run through the playoffs, they get to the conference final and then they lose on a frustrating late goal.
01:42:47
Speaker
And miss out on the final like that would be frustrating, but I think this team with the way they're playing and the way they have been playing are much more likely to go on a run and fucking win the thing like.
01:43:03
Speaker
At this point, I think the season is a success so far with the chances to be an even greater success. Yeah, exactly.
Conclusion and Audience Engagement
01:43:12
Speaker
I think that is a good place to wrap it up right there. Tim, thanks so much again for hopping in. Appreciate it. That was a lot of fun.
01:43:22
Speaker
ah You can find a lot of Tim's writing on Sounder at Heart. We already plugged the Sounders Way piece. You got anything else in the works that you want to plug or just let anyone know about the type of stuff you're doing for her Sounder at Heart?
01:43:36
Speaker
i i you know, I handle most of our game recaps. I will be filling in for Jeremiah on Friday. At least that is the plan at the moment with Nico on Nos Adietes.
01:43:50
Speaker
Um, you're just doing the whole tour, doing, it doing the whole tour on network. I am starting to do some more training coverage to help lighten the load for Jeremiah. So I'm out at training on Fridays, generally speaking.
01:44:07
Speaker
Um, yeah, just, Keep reading Sounder at heart. Listen into Lobbing Scorchers. Hell yeah. All right, everyone, sub to the channel.
01:44:17
Speaker
ah Follow us on Instagram and TikTok. Rate five stars. Write reviews. LobbingScorchers.com slash sauce for the hot sauce. I think that's all the plugs.
01:44:29
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in, and we will catch you on the next one. Peace.