Lost In You Can See Everything

Transcript

Speaker: Why would I deceive you? There's no reason for me to deceive you. You are listening to Lost in the Frame. And I'm your host, Malik.

Speaker: I'm your host, Hachi. And I'm your host, Alex. And today, the biggest movie of the year? question mark A discussion on You Can See Everything. How are you guys doing today? You ready for the movie? Movie? I'm not ready. for I actually don't think I'm ready for this.

Speaker: Yeah. You ready? Same. Sure. Good. Well, let's warm up. We'll do a rapid review. We'll talk about some movie news, and then we'll get into the new Nathan Fielder, Lance Oppenheim documentary.

Speaker: You can see everything. I'll kick us off today for a rapid review. um I just saw Ken Russell's The Devils in theaters. um I think we discussed this a little bit over text, but i'm not familiar I wasn't familiar with Ken Russell's work.

Speaker: Essentially, this movie had been cut and it came out in 1971. The movie had been cut and scenes had been lost. And so this is a first time restoration of the actual full vision of Ken Russell for his movie, The Devils.

Speaker: ah This movie is an absolute banger. It's so good. I need to see it. You I think you're really going to enjoy it, Alex. Tachi, I I don't know. If you would enjoy it, but I would still recommend you to watch it.

Speaker: I wouldn't classify it as a horror movie. It's really not scary. But I also don't know how else you would kind of like market this movie or what genre you would put it in. It's very much like a religious political drama.

Speaker: um And it's set in 17th century France and it centers around a pastor who's accused of ah basically possessing some nuns. And so there's witchcraft and and demons involved and in the conversations at most. so that's like the most horror element, but there's nothing actual like.

Speaker: supernatural that happens. um I don't want to give a lot of away, but there are excellent performances, amazing set design, a great score. and It's just such like a ah gripping story and very provocative in the scenes that were cut. So this was heavily censored in the UK and in the US. And so it's fully uncensored now.

Speaker: And a couple of the scenes that were originally cut and lost now in the movie, watching it, even I was like, holy shit. He should be cut again. i can, like this movie was protested amongst religious communities, banned in countries and states like, and I can see why.

Speaker: And I think that's all I'll say for that. But I gave this a four and a half out of five. I thought it was a, an excellent movie. Um, I also said hi to my first celebrity.

Speaker: I wasn't scared this time. Um, one of the guys from the pit, the doctor who got, kicked out of the the hospital for like Dr. Langdon? Yeah, Langdon. I walked into the AMC and I saw him standing there on the wall and I scanned my ticket and I just leaned over and I said, big fan of the pit, by the way, and he smiled and he went, oh, thank you so much. And i was like, oh my God, I did it.

Speaker: I talked to somebody. And then he walked in with his girlfriend and he also watched The Devils. So I hope you enjoyed the movie Langdon. Yeah.

Speaker: Um, I'll go next. I'll do something really, really low budget. Um, kind of a nice dichotomy with the movie we're talking about today. And then, you this, this epic Ken Russell movie that has been banned, recutting over everything.

Speaker: Uh, the Blackwell ghost. Um, this is a 59 minute found footage short. Uh, and I wouldn't even classify it as found footage, but this was part of my spooktober run.

Speaker: um, It's about this guy who is making this ghost documentary and it's like billed as all like real footage. um But it's not.

Speaker: But like I said, it's 59 minutes long and I'm like, you know, it has like decent ratings and there's somehow nine of them. So I'm going to give at least the first one a try.

Speaker: And I liked it. There's definitely like a lot of like boring, dead space in it. um From what I can understand, this is like... He pretty much made this thing like alone. There's three people in the movie. He wrote it, directed it, edited it. The director Turner Clay.

Speaker: And he starred in it. But the movie, it had a lot of heart to it. it You're watching it, and you know even though this isn't something super high-budget,

Speaker: Turner Clay still put in a lot of care here and it actually culminated into what I thought was a pretty good little scare and in the final minutes. So I gave this a three out of five. It's less than an hour long. I think it's on like the Roku channel or Tubi or one of those. So you check it out. Like what's the worst that can happen?

Speaker: And there's, yeah, there's nine of them. Are they all an hour or do they get shorter? I think they're like all around like an hour long. Like maybe one of them 120 minutes or I mean an like an hour 20 or something, maybe an hour and 10, but they're all like around that length from what I can see. And they all divert. Like it seems that some of them are not about like the Blackwell ghost anymore. Hmm.

Speaker: Like, it's something else, but it's just part of the same series. So, I don't know. Those don't seem to be easy to find. So, don't know. What did you hear of it? I looked it up on Letterboxd, and, like, the nine of them, like, the poster, speaking of low budget, like, the poster for all nine of the movies is relatively the same with just the number changing. So, not much creativity there.

Speaker: So, i A while ago. This had been on my list for a while, and I finally was just like, I don't want to watch a movie, but I don't want to watch like an episode of something, so going to watch this.

Speaker: I want to say I found it by finding a found footage list on Letterboxd, like one of those giant um compendiums of like different genres of movies, one of those wanted to make, and searched by...

Speaker: like rated highest to lowest and was just scrolling through. And it was like, i think at the time it was close to the top. I want to say it was like a three, five, and now it's down to like a three or something. But,

Speaker: but it ah I remember finding it, seeing that it was less than an hour, and I added it to my list, and I had forgotten about it until um that night when I was scrolling through like horror movies that were on my watch list, and I saw it and I was like, great.

Speaker: It's less than an hour. like I'll try this one out, and I liked it. Nice.

Speaker: Cool. Uh, I'll go next. Uh, I watched catching fire pretty recently, which we'll actually be talking about and just a little bit. And I don't think I'd seen it since it came out in theaters, but I was having a really good time. I gave it a four out of five stars.

Speaker: Um, kind of surprisingly well done movie given that it's like a, an adaptation of young adult series, but no, I, I think it still holds up and It's a pretty dramatic, but pretty fun.

Speaker: But to kick off Spooktober, I have not yet started anything or I haven't finished anything yet. But I did the thing where I started a movie like at or after midnight, which was Alien Romulus.

Speaker: So I didn't finish it, but there are like 30 minutes left. And um from what I saw, like they were cooking. i was having a great time. Really, really fun movie. And I am looking forward to finishing it.

Speaker: People shit on and Alien Romulus. And like, I get it because it is just kind of rehashing a bunch of like highlights from past Alien movies. I get it. I had a good time with that movie. I was like, this is fun. This is great.

Speaker: It is. Yeah. Yeah. People do much get over it. Yeah, too much flack. Yeah, way too much flack. And it was nice to see David Johnson outside of the long walk. Yeah, he's he's really good in that movie.

Speaker: The Hunger Games, I don't think I ever finished the series. I haven't yet. i haven't seen Mockingjay. Movie. i haven't seen I think I've only seen the first two Hunger Games movies. I think same, actually. Yeah.

Speaker: is So is Catching Fire the third one or the... Second. The second. And there's Mockingjay part one and two. Yeah, man, I can't, um um like, I'll be honest, I don't even know if I can recall catching fire.

Speaker: i didn't but I didn't know anything, really. I didn't remember much. But i will say the fifth movie that's coming out, I think next month, Sunrise on the Reaping, I did read that book.

Speaker: And that's been one of my favorite books in a long, long time. Interesting. It ah has to do with Haymitch and his story. And I was like actually blown away. look i didn't realize that that was coming out next month. Are we covering that?

Speaker: Maybe we should. Maybe we should do a Hunger Games. I think we should. I got to catch up the Hunger Games. I could not recommend that book more. All right, we'll talk about it. We'll get into some movie news and then the movie.

Speaker: Did we talk about the Narnia trailer? I just put Narnia trailer here. It came out this week. We didn't talk about Did you guys watch it? Yes. Okay. You didn't. Oh, damn it. um Probably should have made sure. um What are your thoughts, Alex, on the trailer?

Speaker: Greta Gerwig's new Narnia, the the magician's nephew? Yeah. It's been a while since I've read The Magician's Nephew. I'm very intrigued. Very colorful movie. It was really nice to see how...

Speaker: whimsical it looked. I'm a tad worried it's going rely too much on CGI. There seemed to be a lot of yeah that in the trailer.

Speaker: And I'm still cautious on Meryl Streep as Aslan the lion. So we didn't get a voice reveal.

Speaker: I'm not holding my breath. um But I am willing to be ah you know willing to have my mind changed. But it's been a while since I've read The Magician's Nephew.

Speaker: i really, really i'm curious if she's going to do all six books because The Last Battle is so like unadaptable, I feel like.

Speaker: Interesting. And if she were to do it just straight up, it would be

Speaker: It would be brave. I'll put it that way. There's a lot in it that, um yeah, I mean, it might cause a a lot of drama if she does it straight up.

Speaker: Which will be interesting to see. i haven't read the books since middle school. So I basically haven't read the books because I don't recall any of it. um I'm also worried of how CGI heavy it looks. It kind of feels pretty opposite to Barbie in yeah and in that sense.

Speaker: So that worries me. The movie comes out in February on Netflix and in theaters. That release date also worries me because it's usually like dumping grounds kind of month.

Speaker: I don't know. um They did use Stairway to Heaven in the trailer, and I was surprised. ah little heavy-handed. Heavy-handed, but I was surprised to learn that Stairway to Heaven's never been used in a film or trailer, ever.

Speaker: that That was the first time. Never? Never. That was the first time. So heavy handed for sure, but they had to have paid buku bucks to get that. They got that for a reason and heavy handed. Yes. But like, that's the first time that song's ever been used in media and in that way.

Speaker: Maybe the hand was supposed to be heavy. Maybe watch the trailer. Those bags were heavy. Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll watch it, but I've, I've got hesitations.

Speaker: I'm a big Narnia guy, so I will be watching. I didn't know that. same Same. You're also a big Narnia guy. At least for the first movie that came out 20 years ago. and That's like one of my favorite Christmas movies.

Speaker: I think so. That movie punches so far above its weight. It does. yeah The next two are bad. The So good. It's incredible.

Speaker: Tilda Swinton as the White Witch. Yeah, really good. they were cooking. Yeah. I don't think the next two movies are that good, but the first one is very nostalgic and I like it. I remember Prince Caspian being okay.

Speaker: I don't really, I don't think I ever watched Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Same. Voyage of the Dawn Treader, that's right. Crazy. Which is one of my favorite books in the whole series.

Speaker: ah I would love to have an adaptation done right for it. Mm-hmm. All right, well, we'll see. What got next?

Speaker: This is hard for me to talk about. Yeah, hard for all of us. Steven Soderbergh is set to direct the remainder of The Batman Part 2. Him and Reeves will work together and remain in communication until filming has ended, with Reeves taking over post-production duties when ready.

Speaker: A quote from Steven Soderbergh, the goal here is to work with Matt and his team to generate footage that will integrate seamlessly with what's already been shot so Matt can properly finish his film.

Speaker: Matt Reeves quote, just to be clear, I'm not leaving the Batman part two. I am profoundly grateful to Steven for coming to my aid during this challenging time to help me finish principal photography. Thank you to all for your concern and well wishes.

Speaker: I hate Everything about this. Yeah. um It's so unfortunate that the movie had been delayed so long for reasons.

Speaker: And now that we finally had it start to be made, there's... What I'm going guess is some sort of either family health concern or personal health concern. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.

Speaker: and the The most rumors I've seen on it, and I don't want to rumor monger on this podcast, but I think most of the rumors I've seen have about been personal health concerns. like This isn't the first time something like this has happened apparently.

Speaker: um There was something with one of the Planet of the Apes movies, apparently. So, um I don't know. But, I mean, I'm gutted for it. i you know Hopefully Steven Soderbergh stays true to the vision here and we don't end up with a disjointed mess. Yeah.

Speaker: Because that's what I'm worried about from a film perspective. But obviously that's not the the priority here. yeah Yeah. I wish the best for, for Matt Reeves and and whatever he's going through. um Interesting that it's Steven Soderbergh. That is the last person I think I would have thought to, to pick something like this back up.

Speaker: um Bro was just available. What were his last two? ah Presence and black bag. God.

Speaker: Yeah, that's why he was available. Yeah. ah For context, Black Bag was the last movie I fell asleep in um in the theater. And Presence, Alex and I laughed at the end as well as the credits were on.

Speaker: Black Bag was so bad, I almost turned it off on a plane. That's how mad I was with that movie. And it didn't help that like I was on a plane and the sound mixing was like, we're go to put I can barely hear what was going on.

Speaker: I wish I didn't actually. ah Maybe would have improved the movie if I thought of it as like an avant-garde, no-talking, silent kind of movie. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it would have been better. but you Might have added to the experience.

Speaker: Presence has, and I know we've talked about this before, but I'm going to reiterate it. Presence has, I think, the funniest line. And it's so unintentionally funny.

Speaker: ah The last line of the movie just pretty much explains the entire movie. i I was pissed. It is one of the worst examples of breaking the show don't tell rule I think I've ever seen.

Speaker: Like, the movie was already... It had already lost me. And then the line happens, and I went... Wow. I laughed. I actually laughed. Yeah, I was like... and then and He's not making that up. We were with... There four of us there, I think. I think so.

Speaker: um Anyone who liked it, i was like, you people are under spells. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, that was that was tough. So I'm hoping that since he won't be left to his own devices, Steven will produce something good here.

Speaker: Yeah, I think it'll be fine. That'd be great. Yeah. Because he has cooked in the past. He has. I genuinely really like the Solaris remake he made.

Speaker: And I like the original, the original Tarkovsky, but the George Clooney Solaris I think is really good as well. So, and that's an adaptation. And it... And worked. You know? I guess we'll see. In 2035 when this movie eventually does come out. We'll celebrate. We'll be in our 40s. Well in our 40s by the time we see the Batman Part 2.

Speaker: Gonna have to skip my high schooler's graduation because the Batman Part 2 is out. i've been waiting for this way longer than I've even known you. Yeah.

Speaker: right, next bit. Zendaya will star in a new untitled sci-fi film from director Alex Garland. Filming begins next year. Pretty exciting. Two thumbs up for me.

Speaker: Yeah, but this is the thing that's hold part of the reason that it's holding up 28 years later, part three. m Well, then it better be worth it. It better be worth it because I'm itching. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: I'm sure it'll cool. Uh, last bit of news. A red rising movie is in the works at Paramount. Francis Lawrence, the director of the hunger games, catching fire is set to direct.

Speaker: Now we talked about this a little bit in our group chat earlier this week. Um, I read the red rising series last year and I fucking loved it. And T money is now reading it.

Speaker: You've read the first one. You've got the second one in queue. Yeah. I'll be starting golden sun very soon. Yeah. Um, I don't want this. I'm just going to be honest.

Speaker: don't give this Don't give this to me. Keep it keep it in the vault. I would rather an animated series. You can make the first one a movie. The first one is like the most YA of them all. Yeah.

Speaker: And then it gets nuts and completely departs from the tone of the first. um So Francis Lawrence for the first movie directing, that makes sense to me. I'm just worried about the rest of it is kind of where where I stand.

Speaker: Should I check this series out? I really like it. I apparently a lot of people hate it on Twitter that I've seen this. People are like, it's gotta be a vocal minority because it's, it's really well received and it's really good because people are like,

Speaker: don't like the way Pierce Brown writes, and I'm not well-read enough to like differentiate really good writing from like really bad writing. but i mean i can like Red Rising is very... It is YA. It's not hard to understand. Very approachable.

Speaker: Very approachable. that's That's a good word to put it. But like the rest of the series just gets so... like like politically charged and intense and fun that I'm just like, I'm having a great time reading this. I'm crying at a book.

Speaker: So I'd recommend it it. It'll be interesting, but I think at least for this standalone movie, as we know of um I think Francis Lawrence will do a ah good enough job.

Speaker: Hmm. um Give it at least a ah B plus type of movie. I'm so scared to see that initial casting announcement. I don't. Yeah. I'm going to cower away. i don't know if I could do it. I really hope they nailed Darrow because he's pretty he's pretty cool.

Speaker: That'll be a thing. All right. That wraps up movie news. Let's get into the movie. You Can See Everything, directed by Nathan Fielder and Lance Oppenheim. Here's the synopsis. 34 days before she's sent to prison, notorious Silicon Valley founder Elizabeth Holmes invites a skeptical film crew to document her every move.

Speaker: What begins as an intimate portrait of an enigmatic felon becomes a mind-bending three-year journey into the abyss. We'll do our Letterboxd Love Like Loathe, get our thoughts on the movie. I've got a five-star. Alex has a three.

Speaker: And Tachi with the one-star. um This five-star comes in from Jasmine. Everything is wordplay. Everything is miscommunication. It feels like a game of chess, except somehow it also doesn't because no one even seems to be playing by the same rules.

Speaker: Thanks, Jasmine.

Speaker: Our three-star comes in today from Carrie New Yorker. a crazy last name. No hyphen, one word. When they said you can see everything, I didn't think it would mean a penis.

Speaker: I wish we could see the missing scene in which the executives from A24 had to negotiate with Hulu to get this film made. Not a Nathan Fielder fan. He seems very insincere in his sincerity, but this was a fun and cringy and a bit of smoke and mirrors.

Speaker: I can see why Lance Oppenheim was interested in doing this and primetime at the same time.

Speaker: I'm intrigued about that Hulu bit. I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, that does sound interesting. The one star today comes in from Ambra. I saw nothing. i fell asleep multiple times and woke up at the mention of Charlie Kirk.

Speaker: What were some of the other one-star reviews you found? Yeah, yeah. Sure. yeah some interesting submissions here. um this half-star comes in from David.

Speaker: Where Megatron? ah Another half-star comes in from Griff0001. Where Optimus? What is happening? Do they follow each other? i don't know. Imagine if they didn't.

Speaker: I can't even begin to describe Griff 0001's picture. um Why don't you just put it to the camera? Okay, I'll do that. but Yeah, i want to see this.

Speaker: ah Says the guy with no... What is this? With no fine friends. It looks like a smiling friends character. It looks like a combination of that smiling friends guy and Spongebob.

Speaker: It looks like you they combine Charlie and Pym. And put them in a suit. Whatever it is, I don't like it. um I kind of like it.

Speaker: Yeah, seemed like it was a little bit hard for you to get a ah a one-star review. Yeah. i don't know I don't know if we should talk about the Letterboxd rating curve before. No, we absolutely need to because...

Speaker: for For those unaware, like this movie's existence was only confirmed to the world at Telluride Film Festival. Like 50 days And that was, what, two months ago? Yeah.

Speaker: So, it's had a very, very short marketing campaign. And just... is just

Speaker: blowing it out of the water right now um i saw that it did like two million dollars in previews as a documentary which is crazy because it's not playing in that many theaters right now but its letterbox rating curve right now is pretty much a sheer cliff from five stars and to four and a half. So there's 96,000 five-star reviews at the time of recording. This is is October 18th.

Speaker: um This is the Sunday after it came out. There's 96,000 five-star reviews. There's 22,000 four and a half-star reviews. There's 9,000 four-star reviews.

Speaker: And it's less than a thousand pretty much for everything else. It's less than 3,000 ratings for anything 3.5 and below.

Speaker: Like, not even yeah does not pass 3,000.

Speaker: It's at a 4.8 out of 5 on Letterboxd. And if you're wondering that this is just, like, the Letterboxd fandom loving this thing, and it's, like, really skewed and biased, it's at a 9.4 on IMDb right now.

Speaker: God damn. That's nuts. I think it's the highest rated. movie on the service for both?

Speaker: IMDb, I'm not sure. Letterboxd, yes. It is currently number one. Well, it's not a fish it's it's yeah it's not officially number one. and They haven't put it on... I don't think they've let it get put on any of the the official rankings yet because it hasn't.

Speaker: There's like a certain day limit. I think that when they changed the rating algorithm to to prevent like recency bias from skewing the top 500. Yeah. Yeah. yeah but either way it's going to get you very high yeah how do you guys feel about that entire conversation of a movie like this and recency bias and then because of numbers that it ends up on the top 250 movie list of of all time i see that it annoys some people um

Speaker: I kind of don't care, to be honest, because Letterboxd is not the final say. it is a fun social media app, but this gets people pissed. But I'm curious how you guys feel about it.

Speaker: i I agree with you. and the other thing is, it usually sorts itself out. I mean, so let me try and pull up the list right now. Because there were a couple things that debuted, and they were so high, and everybody was like,

Speaker: Why is this up here? i think the biggest offender was um Everything Everywhere All at Once was like a top five movie of all time on Letterboxd. Yeah. And now it is down to...

Speaker: You know, this probably would have been smarter if I had just, like, looked up the movie. but oh well ah So this is another example because it's it's i I found it first. Across the Spider-Verse was top five as well. Hell yeah. When it came out, it's down to 64. Okay. Okay.

Speaker: it's down to sixty four okay So still very highly rated, and it is a very, very good movie, and I rated it very highly. But, you know, is it as good as some of the things in the top five?

Speaker: You know, as as like a piece of art? Like, no, but like you said as well, it's this list isn't the end-all be-all. I use it as a good, like, barometer for a movie. and Yeah. But I'm talking about, like...

Speaker: if If you really think about it, like out of five stars, there's not a lot of options to put thousands upon thousands and thousands of movies. And I don't know, just it just makes sense to me. Like, does it can it look ridiculous like on paper?

Speaker: For sure. Yeah, it can look crazy, but it's like it doesn't mean anything. But does it bother you at all, Tachi? no and and like how it said like things will shake out let the dust settle but yeah the shawsheng drops today ah like it's it's gonna be very well received immediately exactly it doesn't really matter yeah in the grand scheme things 100 agree and then i think with older movies too like Letterboxd has only exploded more and more in popularity as like the last few years have gone by. So you've got people of all ages downloading this app.

Speaker: And if you have a big group of younger people who haven't seen something like Shawshank Redemption, and they're also not going to go back and retroactively like rate those movies, but everyone is rating, you can see everything today.

Speaker: It's obviously just going to reflect that. yeah.

Speaker: All right. Let's get into the actual movie. What was... so many this is a this is a This is big. This is this is really big.

Speaker: It's a very loaded movie. Yeah. um We should probably start with talking about who she is the filmmaker and the subject. Okay. I don't know which one we would prefer to start with. Let's do Elizabeth Holmes. Okay. We'll we'll start with Elizabeth Holmes.

Speaker: The year is 2018, 2019. Do you guys know who Elizabeth Holmes is? Yeah. I didn't. have heard about it. I also did it until this movie. I had remembered hearing the story as it progressed through the news that this self-made billionaire was actually maybe a fraud.

Speaker: And then I remember when she got convicted. And I think I remember when she went to jail as well. Tachi, where were you? Because I've been questioning myself, and i'm like, how did I never hear of this woman? Like, I legit had never heard of her.

Speaker: I don't know. I have no answer. I just didn't know about her. I didn't know either. And then, like, whenever this movie was announced or played at Telluride, which, by the way, i could only imagine...

Speaker: the energy in that room. Like it was a secret screening. Again, no one knew this movie existed until like two months ago until it premiered. i So people knew it existed because I remember when it was announced, there was a secret screening at Telluride. People were thinking it may be this. Okay. Like there, but no one could say for sure, but people were thinking it might be this Elizabeth Holmes documentary that Nathan Fielder had like allegedly been working on. Hmm.

Speaker: But no one had... like and Nothing had been officially confirmed about it until Telluride. I wonder if they knew that it was three hours.

Speaker: Yeah, I wonder what time it even premiered. um Yeah, so whenever we found out about this is when I was like, who the fuck is Elizabeth Holmes? like I was immediately... intrigued by the trailer of the deep blue eyes staring and into Nathan Wheeler's face and I was like who is this woman so that's kind of what I found out but yeah basically she founded a company named Theranos um and was convicted on counts of fraud which kind of brings us here Nathan Fielder what is you guys's relationship with Nathan Fielder

Speaker: I don't really have one. I've never watched Nathan for you. I've only seen bits and pieces like I've seen individual sketches, but I've never actually sat down, watched the show.

Speaker: um So I'm well aware of who he is, but no, no actual history. I've watched Nathan For You. Not like every single episode, but enough at where I'm like, I know this guy. I know who this is. i know the rehearsal's supposed to be like something else entirely.

Speaker: I do need to check it out. I'm just bad with television. I have been a Nathan Fielder fan for a long time. I love Nathan For You. I have seen every episode multiple times, and it's always something that I love showing people.

Speaker: um I really love his show The Curse with Emma Stone, and I think the rehearsal season one two are excellent. he's ah he's ah He's a funny dude. I'm a big fan of him. And as we got to like the rehearsal, it was interesting to see his... like hit the The route he took from an artistic standpoint, like going from something as ridiculous as Nathan for you, like, i mean, you guys have seen clips, like that's just a a ridiculous concept of a show.

Speaker: And for like a person like him, he's just very unreadable, very like monotone, just kind of pivoted in this very interesting direction. And then now to get involved with a movie like this kind of just puts him at ah such a different level that I wasn't fully expecting.

Speaker: um which we'll get into. But what were your guys's thoughts once the credits rolled on? You can see everything. How did you feel?

Speaker: So confused. Yes. Yes. Confused. Yeah, but happy.

Speaker: Oh, I was blown away, but I was just like, I don't know what to think. Yeah. I had prepared for this documentary by reading ah John Carreau.

Speaker: I think that's you pronounce his last name. His book called Bad Blood. Okay. um If you don't know who he is, he is the Wall Street Journal reporter who broke the story on Theranos.

Speaker: and kind of kicked off the whole investigation um based on some tips he had— got And this is something i want to bring up as because there's many points in the movie where things are said or things happen. You just have to shake your head.

Speaker: um But the reporter you know received a tip from someone he trusted that had gotten into contact with multiple people who were affected from the Theranos debacle, whether they be employees or I think there was a patient involved in that in as well. And then um a family member of an and employee who had taken his own life.

Speaker: um And so the book details kind of what led up to, you know, what was the road to this tip being sent to the Wall Street Journal and then what happened after.

Speaker: And this was the after she got convicted edition, which had a whole afterward about her trial and how that went. So that's how I prepared for this, because I wanted to learn a lot more about the case. I knew that she had...

Speaker: you know, made this product that didn't actually work or do anything um and had taken a lot of money in doing so. That was the real extent that I had seen of her. I had never read any of her profiles in the Wall Street Journal or the New Yorker, and I had never heard her speak before the You Can See Everything trailer dropped.

Speaker: So... I definitely walked out of this feeling way different than I expected.

Speaker: Yeah, and I've been nonstop thinking about this movie since walking out. that it's It's a really long documentary. It's three hours, and it just absolutely flew by.

Speaker: And there's just there's like so much to digest and also so much that's just... not answered and i just left with more questions but like i was absolutely like buzzing out of the theater like the theater was having a great time albeit i think maybe a bit too like boisterous with the laughter at times um he has been guffars the theater it was a fa theater ah that's um

Speaker: um'm I'm getting a lot of reports of Gafars in this room. Yeah, like completely. Two guys behind me were Gafars. Yeah. We had a lot of Gafars at mine. i Yeah.

Speaker: So I'm recording this from home. If you're a YouTube watcher, you can tell that the background is is very different. so I'm recording this at my parents' place up in Rhode Island. And so I saw it at the Showcase Cinemas in Warwick.

Speaker: Same place I saw Marty Supreme, actually. But um different crowd, different kind of theater from you know my usual haunt at Alamo. um There was a lot of laughing, a lot of guffawing, but there was one part in this movie where it was like someone threw a grenade into the theater and it was just going crazy. Oh my God.

Speaker: It was one of my favorite theater moments of the year. um it it felt like a really special place to be in at that moment. I can't wait to hear what that scene was.

Speaker: No one was ever like a super obnoxious or everything. We just, there's just a lot of people laughing. Yeah. And there were points, there are parts where people were laughing where I was like, are you laughing? Cause you think this is funny or cause you're really uncomfortable? Because I was laughing a lot of points cause i was really uncomfortable, like a nervous reaction. But there were definitely many moments in this where I was laughing. Cause like, that is hilarious. yes Yeah, for sure.

Speaker: And to to harken back to the. I guess the the sudden interest in this film, because everything's kind of exploded out of nowhere. Um, I wonder if this is going to have, not that it's going to have the same commercial success as obsession, but the way in which like word of mouth is spreading because there was pretty limited marketing and like my theater, I think there were maybe two empty seats in the front row.

Speaker: i was on the second row. it was actually hard to get a ticket from me. Um, and I watched this Saturday early afternoon. Yeah. So like where, your theater's packed?

Speaker: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Packed. i think Very, very packed. Yeah. Sold out like my brother Nathan. I told him to to watch it because he also wasn't aware of this like up until like a few days ago.

Speaker: And so I told him on Thursday night or Friday morning. i was like, go watch this tonight. He's like, OK, we're going to try to watch it tonight at 10. He watched it on Saturday because he was like, oh, yeah, we couldn't get. Tickets because all of the everything was sold out. And I'm like, OK, like I do think this movie is going to have legs. It has a budget of seven million and a box office of 15 million.

Speaker: We'll get to the money of it all. It was under at some point. um This. It's under a thousand screens, apparently, to right now.

Speaker: Oh, yes, it's nothing.

Speaker: I'm going to go ahead and put a spoiler warning right now. So we could fully get into exactly what happens. So spoiler warning. You've been warned. Three, two, one.

Speaker: um So the movie begins with. Billy, Elizabeth Holmes' boyfriend. They're not married. um Kind of on the phone talking about a few things. And then we're just getting shots throughout the house. And then we see and we see Nathan. And then like immediately like that's already kind of playing for laughs.

Speaker: Because if you know, just the presence of Nathan Fielder is already kind of funny. Just with the context of of who he is. um But we're in Del Mar, California in Elizabeth Holmes and Billy's home. Again, 34 days before she's sent to prison.

Speaker: And Nathan and his crew are there. And we're kind of just seeing the beginnings of these conversations and the why of why they're there. And why did Elizabeth Holmes and Billy let these people into the house to get this intimate look?

Speaker: And it... Already off the bat kind of feels like. i don't know. I'm already like questioning. I'm like, what is the reason? Like, what is the reason for them wanting to do this? Like, what do they want us to see that the public is not getting or misunderstanding about Elizabeth Holmes?

Speaker: And just right away, like you watch any interview with this woman, you're like. What's up with her? This movie has like three of the strangest communicators i've ever seen.

Speaker: been subjected to, it was so bizarre. So unsettling sometimes. Yeah. And the thing that's interesting is Nathan, they sit down at the table and then Nathan asks, he's like, basically like, why me?

Speaker: And neither of them are familiar with his work, which I thought was really interesting. Billy was, but Elizabeth really wasn't. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about that. But is that even true? That's a little later. I don't know. Like, and it's like,

Speaker: the Their decision to get an unknown. So going back to what was his name? John Carreau, the author of Bad Blood. I read his New York Times article, his review on you can see everything this morning right before we recorded.

Speaker: and oh I didn't realize he wrote one. Yeah, yeah, it just came out yesterday. Oh, that's like yeah incredible. I'm going to need read this. Yeah, it came out yesterday. I'll i'll send it to you guys. um But he opens the article saying how he's like a little bit jealous because of Nathan Fielder and Lance Oppenheim because he's like, this is the access that I asked for eight years ago.

Speaker: And so like he was just talking about his experience of watching the movie. But so he's already skeptical and curious as to like why now and why let these people in. And it is interesting that Elizabeth Holmes, she says she's like, oh, Billy showed me one clip of you in a gas station.

Speaker: And and that's about it. Do you guys know which clip she's talking about? I think do know.

Speaker: I think he's like, I drink my grandson's pee when I'm scared. He's like, what are you talking about? It's like one of the few times you see Nathan Fielder, like kind of get out of his character and can break. um But what are you guys thinking? Like at this point of of the story, like where, where, where's your head at?

Speaker: I'm enamored, right? Because. The only thing that I've seen... and I also didn't watch the dropout. I did not watch the the show about Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos.

Speaker: So my whole image of her basically comes from Bad Blood and like the Wikipedia article on her.

Speaker: And so...

Speaker: the The only way i can i can like ah think the only way I can describe this is growing up. you know Everyone had a picture book with animals and animal fun facts and like that and you you know you have your favorites to the pages that you usually go to, but there's always the like the tiger.

Speaker: You're like, wow, like tigers are really dangerous. Tigers are scary. Look at all the bad things tigers have done. And then you go to the zoo. You go to the zoo and you see a tiger.

Speaker: And it's there. It's in the enclosure. It's walking around. It's laying there. It's doing everything like very nonchalantly, very chill. And it's like, that's a tiger.

Speaker: That's the thing that I've heard all this this bad stuff about. But it's like right there and it's it's not doing anything. And... that's kind of the similar vibe that I had watched this. I'm like, I've heard all the evidence about Elizabeth Holmes. I've read, you know, the, the documentation, like the text messages, the exchanges, what was reported to her, you know, what she said, how she responded to certain things. And, you know, i walked out of that book thinking, I'm like,

Speaker: wow, she is not a good person. yeah I don't think she set out to defraud people, but she's absolutely culpable for what happened. And then he here she is in this movie, and she's just sitting there being silly and goofy. I mean, I don't i don't know how to describe it.

Speaker: i don't know i don't I don't know if I would define it as silly and goofy. She's... She wants Very bubbly. Yeah. Yeah. She wants us to perceive her as this, like, wide-eyed, almost innocent figure.

Speaker: Aloof. And the whole time, like, the whole question is just like, are you And... This is like why Nathan is also interested in this. Like, I think Nathan Fielder is an excellent, like, I guess I'll call him like host ah to do this because he is very, very good at living in that uncomfortable space of the awkward tension that can happen between people.

Speaker: And he makes that space. Like he'll make something awkward. And then he'll push and then he'll just keep asking questions and like ask you to like, to like dive deeper into it. But the two opposing forces are two of the opposing forces in this movie between like Nathan Fielder and Elizabeth Holmes is she doesn't really while well-spoken,

Speaker: doesn't really know how to communicate normally. Like she does not think the same. She does not process things the same.

Speaker: And so as Nathan continues to figure out who she is and like, what's going on with this family? Cause this family is just like weird. Like, She's strange.

Speaker: Billy is strange. Billy like mirrors Elizabeth in in tone and look as well. And it's like, oh, two of them found each other. And so Nathan's like, what the fuck is happening here? I'm just trying to figure it out. And any question he asks, it just like goes deeper and deeper and deeper where he's like, what is happening here in this house?

Speaker: It's usually like answered with like, well, I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker: That was what struck me the most from the first 45 minutes of the movie was whenever he would ask her anything about like her life and her thoughts, she'd like, yeah I don't really know.

Speaker: like what do you mean you don't know? Yeah.

Speaker: it's so strange and uncomfortable. just never getting a straight answer out of someone, even if you press them over and over and you you'll, you'll see this time and time again. And, and I guess the, the political realm where someone is, um,

Speaker: I wouldn't say on trial, but they're being questioned. And they just talk around an answer and never giving one. And um it's frustrating. And you want more. You want something concrete.

Speaker: And this movie, it just like continually like has the the bait right in front of you, like the carrot. And you're just never able to bite it.

Speaker: it's But it's so... It's so frustrating and it's so interesting and fun at the same time. I don't really know how they pulled this off.

Speaker: The shots, the the way this movie looks, the way that they they shot it and set up looks amazing to the point where it's like I saw people questioning. They're like, is this scripted?

Speaker: Because this looks really good. like This looks like a narrative feature. I had the same thought multiple points in the movie where was like, this is too good to have been like a one take. Yeah.

Speaker: Just candid in the moment. Not that I'm accusing it of anything, but yeah it felt like that.

Speaker: Uh, variety had this quote on how they filmed. Um, they had a seven person camera crew that basically covered the entire house. Um, in quotes, Lance Oppenheim said, we had three cameras, two operators. One would sometimes be on Elizabeth or Billy.

Speaker: One would be on Nathan. And we basically pick zones of the house and have these extremely long zoom lenses. Then I would be hidden behind the wide camera. We were trying to do that in an effort to try and take all the pressure away from any moment.

Speaker: They would shoot 16 hours a day. So we wouldn't really know what we were interested in necessarily.

Speaker: this they're They're very close to everybody's faces throughout this entire thing. I'm going to talk about like specifics of what's happening while we're in the house.

Speaker: um We're getting a lot of Billy. Billy is talking a lot for Elizabeth. um The first notable scene is as they're having a conversation with Nathan about like what they're planning to do throughout the day.

Speaker: elizabeth is their Elizabeth and Billy are making breakfast and she's making the eggs. she's She's whisking the eggs around, beating the eggs, but she's doing it kind of softly and the camera lingers on this and then Billy takes the bowl from her And does it instead. And then Nathan goes, wait, why did you take the bowl from her? Why'd you do that?

Speaker: And then my audience is laughing and stuff. And then immediately you're already getting this like sense of control almost from Billy that he's got this like presence over Elizabeth and she just kind of lets it happen.

Speaker: She wasn't doing it right. She wasn't doing it right. I would i would' have also said she was doing it too soft. I was like, all right, billy Billy's kind of vindicated here, but I was like, you're still you're still a little bit weird. um That really, like, the heebies were GBing. Yeah. yeah It feels so intentional that that was such a prominent, or for some reason, just it feels so...

Speaker: I guess important. It feels so prevalent through the whole story of the film and and the way that the the film opens up on Billy. Like he is the first person you see, the first person you hear.

Speaker: And I think it just really sets the tone for what we're going to be in store in for the next two and a half hours. Yeah. if Well, the the other thing I picked up almost immediately was like hostility from Billy. Yeah.

Speaker: Like it's like he did not want them here. And there are so many moments in the first 30 minutes where it's like, why did you agree to this? If you did, like, what did you think this would be like? Yeah. Elizabeth um elizabeth and Billy felt like two opposing forces together because she's like, I want to be as open and transparent as possible. But yeah, like you said, Billy just is like pissed that they're there.

Speaker: The Wi-Fi bit comes to mind with me as like the first instance of like true hostility. He's like complaining about... um You guys, oh, every time you're here, the Wi-Fi breaks. It's never, it's not us. like you know.

Speaker: You do this. And then you know they're on the Zoom call with the some law student. I guess so. Who just has an interest. And they're like, oh, like we think she's going to take the case. And it like breaks up. just like She could have been saying something really important there. That was really funny.

Speaker: Call her on the phone. We never go back to that law student. That was just the end her. That was like, what do you think that this law student is going to do? don't know.

Speaker: Because my understanding of that conversation was like, this student was going to re-examine the case or something. Yeah. um And the other thing I picked up was that Billy had... Well, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker: He had... tried to convince us the audience that he had convinced himself that Elizabeth was innocent. Because when he even acknowledges with Nathan that um

Speaker: he knew who Elizabeth Holmes was, but didn't realize it was her. When they first met. ah so weird. he was I don't believe that. And then he was just like, oh, actually, but if you if you really read the the case, like, she didn't do it.

Speaker: Yeah. they're They're both kind of convinced. Let's talk about that conversation with Nathan and Billy. Nathan's asking about like how they first met...

Speaker: um And yeah, and how Billy didn't know who she was for like the first hour, but also at the same time fell in love with her in that first hour. She was wearing a hat, sunglasses and a bandaid. So he didn't realize he was talking to Elizabeth Holmes. And it's really funny. And it's the first like kind of instance we get of Nathan kind of poking the bear of like, okay, so after you found out who she was, like, did that give you a hesitation? And he's like, no, not at all.

Speaker: And he's like you're good with the ladies, aren't you? And then he's like, yeah, sure. Why? And he's like, were you dating anyone at the time? And Billy reveals that he was like dating three other people at the time. And he's like, and at this point, like Elizabeth is like convicted and you, you still wanted to to be with that. And he goes, yeah.

Speaker: And you're like, what are you? Why? why Like, what is the reason? And then Nathan's like, Maybe it's for money. So he's like, you come from money, don't you? And then Billy's trying to tiptoe around. and He's like, there's different levels of wealth. And then goes, okay, I don't want to talk about it um if If you're unaware who Billy Evans is, his parents own like the Evans Hotel Group or something that's like a look like a regionally in Southern California. There's some conglomerate of of hotels.

Speaker: So they have money. Like he is a family from of money. But he's not like, I don't know. He's kind of an under radar Nepo kid. Yeah. I really know his parents are.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, I'm very confused on like how their relationship started and the whole dynamic. It's just... It's so weird.

Speaker: It's weird. It's so weird. Like, it and it it feels like there's just something sinister underneath the surface. And so you're just like hoping, you're like all right, I really hope we get to to what's going on here. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, there is something sinister. I mean, in the first 30 minutes as well, the scene where they forgot to turn off the mics and he's talking to her and the yeah the side thing. And she's like, stand up for yourself like that.

Speaker: Like, don't give him that. Like, Yeah. The first big miscommunication, and this happens a lot that we get, is with a quote that someone had made from the New york Times about Elizabeth Holmes. The quote says, this they're claiming the New York Times ah article is claiming that this is something Elizabeth Holmes said, in quotes, they're not playing me, they're playing a character i created.

Speaker: when discussing the dropout. And they harp on this quote many times throughout the movie. And then Elizabeth Holmes doesn't really know like what to make of it. She's like, I didn't say that. like That's not what I said.

Speaker: And then Billy kind of comes in and he goes, yeah, you probably said they're playing a character they created or something like trying to rephrase it. And when he we have it all recording. It's like, yeah, we have everything recorded. So can you see the record? Can you hear it? Like, no.

Speaker: Yeah. He's like, no, I haven't finished reviewing everything, but yeah, we have everything. Yeah, but we never hear it. so it's like do So it's like, do they?

Speaker: I don't know. And then we follow Billy at the gym and we get a shot of him in the shower, which I know we wanted to talk about. A very revealing shot.

Speaker: um We'll put a pin in that because I want that to come later when we're diving deeper into the movie. Okay. Okay.

Speaker: is this Is this when we get to the Abbott and Costello bit? Because this is, I think, like the first really big milestone. Yeah, i mean, we're probably going to bounce around a lot. Yeah. But the Abbott and Costello is, is I think, the the biggest moment of the first the first act, so to speak.

Speaker: I was just going to say, so they so Nathan has, he he thinks of the ah the Abbott and Costello bit of the who's on first, what's on second, whatever, don't know, is on third, that whole comedy routine that I'm sure everyone is aware of.

Speaker: He thinks of that basing off of an earlier conversation he's having with Elizabeth and asks her if she had seen it. She says no. The conversation for context was about Elizabeth's claim that the the device, the Edison device, could do...

Speaker: like 270 tests. Uh, that was a claim she made, so it can't do it. Yes. But then she starts like explaining that what she really meant was that it can be programmed to do it, that it's just a platform that you need to teach it the chemistry to do these tests. Um,

Speaker: It could barely do the the test that like the chemistry was there for. It never really could get a test right. um That's another conversation. But she starts arguing like semantics.

Speaker: Yes. And that's where you really like understand that this woman does probably does not view the world in the same way that we do.

Speaker: Because she really just didn't understand what the difference was between what Nathan was saying, that you understand how someone could construe this as this device can do all these tests, where it's like, well, it can, but it hasn't been trained to. Which is basically just the argument of like,

Speaker: Yeah, like I can go on a date with Anne Hathaway, but I've never met her and haven't asked her out. And she's married, so she wouldn't say yes. yeah But like I could.

Speaker: i could do it. And in that part of that conversation, it's just like, how much is this like true about her personality or her?

Speaker: the way that her brain functions, like how much is it just that you can't comprehend the messaging being confusing or how much is it that she's playing this version of herself that quote unquote, cannot tell the difference.

Speaker: Like how much is it willfully being ignorant and how much is it just true? And that is just one of the most central themes of this whole movie.

Speaker: Like we, we, we get the same feeling the whole time. It's just like, what is actually real? What does she understand? What is the truth?

Speaker: Because when you learn about everything that happened with Theranos, the first thought that I had was like, how did you trick this many people? That was the thing in the book. I don't know how she got as far as she did. Yeah. Because pretty much...

Speaker: There were people along the way in like the, event like she met with investors and they asked her like, they would ask her like, okay, how does this work? How did you solve this problem?

Speaker: And the book makes mention of the fact that she would like, those meetings would always end in like a nightmare because she could never answer it. And i don't know how she got as far as she did.

Speaker: A lot of the people that she had on her board were not from that industry. The two most famous examples are General Mattis, ah Mad Dog Mattis, Trump's, in his first term, his former sec def.

Speaker: He quit, I think, or probably got fired. it but And the other one was Henry Kissinger.

Speaker: Like that Henry Kissinger. Yeah. And then there was another former secretary of state on the board as well, whose son or grandson was actually one of the people, the OG whistleblowers.

Speaker: That's right. because Yeah. Yeah. um Crazy story. But these were people who I don't think had the.

Speaker: The. experience to call her out on her nonsense and so she was able to really like shield it and uh you know really really shield the bs from them because they they didn't know about like you know the types of testing and you know the different values and percentages and like the ranges and the that's they just weren't able to call her out on it but like she was she was called out on it but I don't know because these are all smart guys too. Yeah.

Speaker: Like, no, these people are stupid, but I mean, that fact is something that Nathan says approaches her and says, this is an insecurity of mine in doing this documentary is yeah. You're very well read. You're very smart. And he's like, I'm not a science guy.

Speaker: And he's like, but sometimes I'm not so great with my words. and he's like, are you like that? Are you not good with your words sometimes too? And so like the things that he can pick up on going back to the, this machine can do everything.

Speaker: That's what he picks up on. He's going to get lost in all the science jargon, but he's like, why is she, why does she talk like this? And then that's when he's like you, this conversation reminded me of this very famous comedy routine.

Speaker: I want to show it to you. And so he puts it on the TV, connects the HDMI to the TV from his laptop and they watch this comedy routine. And you can see it's also framed very interesting.

Speaker: there it's It's Nathan, Elizabeth, and Billy on the couch. But Billy's out of frame. His arm is around her. But we can't see Billy. So it kind of looks like it's an extension of Nathan's arm around her, which is something I noticed. And that was the first thing I picked up on. Because, like, in the initial trailer and just in the title, I'm thinking, like,

Speaker: does something happen between like Nathan and Elizabeth? Like does something happen? Like that was the first question that I had pre the showing. And so I thought that frame was really interesting.

Speaker: And Elizabeth is laughing during the comedy routine and then it ends and Nathan asked her, did he's like, did you find that funny? And then she just goes, and then he goes, why did you find that funny?

Speaker: And that was like, oh yeah, that was a very uncomfortable like laugh amongst the theater because she can't explain it.

Speaker: She doesn't know why it's funny. She can't pick up on like why she's laughing. She literally, yeah, she literally just says, he he goes, who was on first base? And she goes, I don't know.

Speaker: What was his name? Yeah, what was his name? She goes, I don't know.

Speaker: uh billy sums it up great when he in the conversation about the can that difference was uh he's like you know i understand what you're going through nathan because you have no idea i'm going through like no you don't the most expressive he's been in the whole documentary was this it was so funny that got a real big laugh out of the theater you're just like no you don't yeah

Speaker: And then Billy, as like Nathan is pressing Elizabeth, I think can see that she's getting like uncomfortable and almost like malfunctioning. And Billy goes, actually, Nathan, I'm so glad that you showed this to us. I'm so happy that you showed this to us because this perfectly summarizes how different she thinks. She's not like other people.

Speaker: This is what I mean when I'm like, she's different. It's hard to explain. Thank you for showing us this. This is what we mean. and then i hated all the therapy speak from him. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't I couldn't stand him.

Speaker: There's a lot more to be divulged about Billy, but he sucks. He sucks. And and and one of the main things that gets explored mostly later on is how much he sucks, how much he speaks for her. But yes, how much he says. yes Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: They also Nathan also shows scenes of the dropout. To both Elizabeth Holmes and Billy.

Speaker: which seemed like a lot for her and him. I couldn't do that. They're just sitting on the bed together. i was like, get out of this room. I don't want to be in here. i don't want to see this.

Speaker: that was ah That was a hard scene to watch. Yeah. Do you guys believe her tears when she cries? She tells Nathan, it's like, one thing that was hard for me to like get past was ah crying in front of people.

Speaker: And then she immediately starts crying, like on cue. She does it a lot. Yeah. At like weird times too. I mean, this, this wasn't a weird time.

Speaker: Seeing the dropout, watching it. That was not a weird time. Especially that scene. Yeah. The scenes they picked. um Though it was real, like, I mean, it was just very, uh,

Speaker: Very weird hearing the let's get the money thing. um And she's like crying because it had just like finished like a really tough scene. Yeah. um So you're hearing like this most ridiculous bit from the show and it sounds like Jerry Maguire and she's like in tears about it. um I don't I don't know.

Speaker: I think those were real. Yeah, I can't say for every tear shed in this movie, but I think a lot of them were. um Maybe fake.

Speaker: sixty realel or sixty fake 60 real. Okay. I can see that. Because the only, like the the other times that I can really remember her crying are like the day she goes to prison. Yeah. Which that's pretty, yeah.

Speaker: but Yeah. We need to fake that one. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to there. um The text message that she sends him as they go out to the beach. the beat Yeah. What do you, what did you think? What is, what it was that?

Speaker: What? just another example of her being one of the strangest communicators I've ever seen. She, so for the listeners, she is at the beach, um, like in the water with her husband or boyfriend and their kids.

Speaker: And Nathan's just kind of chilling by the, their little cottage. And, He gets a text from her and it says, FYI, you can see, you can totally see everything dot, dot, dot.

Speaker: Like, Hey, big boy, you could totally see everything right now. And I was like, huh? was confused. I was like, is that, is that Elizabeth? Like how did, when did she text him?

Speaker: And he Nathan shows that at confusion on screen. He's like, what? He's like constantly looking back like, how did she send this right now?

Speaker: And then he just thumbs up the message. Yeah. And then she looks at it and just moves on. And I was like, what? What was that about? What does she mean?

Speaker: especially when there's a beach scene later on, like pretty much towards the end in the movie. That is a flashback, but you're like, Hmm. Oh yeah. we What is going on? Yeah. We will get there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Um, okay. So he shows the dropout scene and then what else, what else kind of happens? The, the countdown is, is getting sooner and sooner into her time to go, to go to prison. Um,

Speaker: And it we're kind of just floating around. Like, there's nothing really, like, really happening. Like, Nathan is now living at the house full time with them.

Speaker: um Asks them, like, are you worried that, like, I'll see anything? And they really seem like they have nothing to hide. Billy didn't.

Speaker: Is this what you want to talk about it or still later? No, later. um What am I missing here ah that ah that happens at the house? Any other like important conversations or breadcrumbs regarding?

Speaker: The very strange conversation between Nathan and her dad. Oh, my God. Yes, I want to talk about that guy. Okay.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: One of the analysis is that I've heard the analysis analysis. I've had a very long week. i had a wedding this week. I I'm still recovering. Another wedding, by the way, another wedding, another wedding. um

Speaker: One of the reads that I have been told about Elizabeth Holmes is that she is very deeply on the spectrum, that that's one of the possible explanations for it.

Speaker: And you watch it, and but i i agree to some level. I'm not a psychologist. I can't even pretend to be. But you watch her, and

Speaker: You get that vibe. Yeah. um And I mean that like from a very, like I'm not trying to, you know, be mean to her or anything like that. I'm not trying to use that as like a, like a gotcha or anything, but she does seem to me like someone who is on the autism spectrum to some capacity.

Speaker: However, however, her dad comes into this and, is is delusional about the whole thing. Because, like, let's say Elizabeth, and I don't know if she's ever been diagnosed or anything, let's say she, you know, truly does not understand what she did wrong, which it is a thing that can happen.

Speaker: Like, you just don't, like, quite get it. But everyone around her is enabling this. And I think her dad is enabling this. Nathan asks him, like, you know, like, what did she do wrong? Where did she go? Well, she never really did.

Speaker: Nothing went wrong.

Speaker: At least as far as, like, Theranos. It was like, she was railroaded. And I think, is this the conversation where they bring up, like, the press railroaded her? Her competitors? Yeah. Yeah, which is hilarious considering that yeah the press railroaded her because Theranos employees reached out through like a— a um it was like an intermediary. This this guy who had a blog and was friends with John Carreau got in touch with these people, and he acted as like an intermediary until they were ready to like divulge themselves and speak to the press.

Speaker: Um, so no, like it wasn't his, there are Theranos competitors that went after her. Yeah. It was the conditions of this company and the things that were happening under her watch that she was aware of.

Speaker: So sure. Maybe she genuinely sees the world differently, but like her dad, who was an Enron employee, which is a really funny line. Yeah. You would think that he would be like, Oh man, like, you know,

Speaker: I need to take the lessons I learned in my career and imbue them on my daughter. And doesn't know it's delusion. It's complete delusion about it. Like there's some, there's something in the air. There's something in the, in the family's blood. I don't know what it is.

Speaker: They just, they can take zero accountability. Yeah. They just are seeing this through a complete, they're, they're just living a completely different life than, than any, than any of us.

Speaker: And then again, Billy's comes in as more framed as the villain at this point and is trying to control the conversation between her dad and Nathan saying, this is not what you're here for. Like you're here to spend time with the family. Why don't you guys get shots of that?

Speaker: And like it just feels like Billy is like this weird like that's this puppeteer almost. And the dad is just very like like sunken about it. He's like, oh, I think Billy wants me to go over there. I'm like, why are you listening to him?

Speaker: What's happening here?

Speaker: Yeah, that's a I think that's a really important conversation. And then we, like Billy, okay, so at this point, we learn that Billy and Elizabeth are essentially trying to create Theranos 2.0.

Speaker: right and And I was like, oh is this is this where the the documentary is going? Like... Like they actually at the end of it, like, did they actually do it? And then the the parents aren't saying anything about it. Like they're talking about like how they're going to communicate from prison and when they're going to like launch this product, like have a ah workable demo in less than 365 days.

Speaker: And then we're getting shots of like the mom holding the dad and like obviously anxious, like tapping her finger and tapping her leg. And you're just like, they're not doing anything about this. They're just like letting it happen.

Speaker: And we never fully get like what the parents think about Billy or their relationship or the fact that they're trying to do this Thanos 2.0 or the fact that their daughter is being sent away to prison for 11 years.

Speaker: Well, I found it really interesting that Billy hopped in right after her dad divulged that Elizabeth was raped. Yeah. Like he did not want that conversation. That very uncomfortable timing. Yes.

Speaker: And it was not really prompted because Nathan was the, the line of questioning was like, where did it all go wrong for her? Like, when did it start yeah with, you know, her, her problems? and he's like, well, it wasn't started with Theranos. was actually when she was like a teenager and got raped or something. then we're like, yeah Whoa, the whole thing went, huh?

Speaker: Yeah. Just nuts. like I want to say, i remember right, the book touched on it a little bit because it was brought up in her trial. I think it was college.

Speaker: it It was before Theranos, but i don't it wasn't super long before the whole saga started. But um that did happen, yeah. Yeah. But its it sucked the air out of my theater, too. Yeah, 100%. I didn't expect it to be brought up that way. It was kind of very matter-of-fact.

Speaker: right um and the word I think she's about to like get to prison. They do like the body three d scan to have like an avatar of her. It was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, like like like while she's away.

Speaker: um Which then gets to like the whole AI Elizabeth later on, which which we'll get to. um But she goes...

Speaker: They moved to Texas, which I did not know this was part of the story. Like I was, i was surprised. i was just like, Oh, like we're in California and now we're in Austin, Austin, Texas jump scare. I cannot believe Billy Evans walks among us. Yeah. They literally had the shot on a, whatever that freeway is passing the, the gigafactory. Oh my God.

Speaker: They're so close. Um, they're really close to me. Yeah. They're really close. All those roads look familiar. Yeah, they are. So can touch on a couple of locations because I figured out where like the WeWork was. I know where the WeWork is. know exactly which one it Yeah, me too.

Speaker: um I need to know what neighborhood Billy is in because I need to avoid it with my life. Yeah. ah Yeah. It's that serious. He has resources or whatever. Yeah. He's walking amongst you guys. We'll get to that.

Speaker: It's so, yeah, Elizabeth's about to go to prison. ah Nathan, very awkwardly and funnily, says, can like, want me to leave you guys alone? Like, I can take the cameras so that way you guys can have sex. Yeah.

Speaker: because we're gonna honestly i thought

Speaker: i thought because of the rating of the movie and what was rated for i thought they were gonna be like no you can leave them oh that would have been nuts i genuinely thought that was about to happen i was like scared yeah he was about to say leave them i i was really concerned yeah what is the most go ahead I was going to say just real quick that at this point, like she's about to go to prison. Like it's the day before.

Speaker: And I think we're like only an hour, 45 minutes into the movie, somewhere around there. Yeah. And so I'm left wondering like what else could possibly happen?

Speaker: Yeah. And I'm so like anxious and and excited to see like what else there is going to Yeah. Cause we, it's a, it's a very emotional real scene and back to like the, the tears of her that she's about to leave her family. Like she says like, Oh, like I left milk in the fridge for the baby and she just breaks down in tears.

Speaker: And like, this is the first time that I'm feeling like really like sympathetic towards just her as a person. I felt really bad because it's like, despite everything that happened, like this is like a family getting ripped apart.

Speaker: And I'm like questioning, I'm just like, does this like need to happen? Like, does she need to do all of this? Like, it's it's just very, it's very heavy, very emotional. Yeah. Um, her and Nathan have like a moment outside of the car almost.

Speaker: Oh, there's There is something between these two. I'm going to make that claim right now. I want to touch on that later. yeah but like There's something in the air.

Speaker: I thought he was going like... i was like, are they going to kiss? I thought that. i like, there's no there's no fucking way. I'm like, Billy's right there. What's happening here? Because it's like they're they're almost like wobbling towards each other. if They're not moving.

Speaker: Yeah. It felt like a pre-kiss tension. Yeah. Like my entire theater, I don't think anyone was breathing.

Speaker: And it's interesting because she's like, she's consoling Nathan too. She's telling him it's going to be okay. Yeah. And she's doing that wide-eyed, non-blinking thing where she's just like nodding, like, it's going to be okay.

Speaker: Yeah. I think something of' also important to note is earlier, Nathan asks her, before he talks to Billy about like how they met, he asks her like her point. And i was like, oh, yeah, I was trying to be flirty. And he's like, oh, are you always flirty? And she's like, oh, look, I try to be. He's like, oh, what do do when you're flirty?

Speaker: And she's like, maintain eye contact. And he's like, oh, like you're doing now? And then you're like, oh, what? And that's why we get so many shots of her just like, un like just not blinking. and you're like, okay, is this a flirt type of thing? I don't know.

Speaker: Yeah, and then she goes to prison. Yep. I thought the sequence ah of her getting dropped off, like the music that was playing, That whole bit, I thought it was just like, whoa. The music is so good in this.

Speaker: So good. Oh my God. So good. Yeah. The music was by Ari Belusian. Sorry for mispronouncing that last name, but I think he's worked with Lance Oppenheim on his previous work on his documentaries. I think he did Primetime. I think he did Primetime, if I'm not mistaken. Great, great, great score.

Speaker: Same cinematographer as well. yeah Yeah. He's got his team. He's got his guys. No, the scene at the the scene of her getting dropped off in Brian. I mean, it felt so real. Yeah. And it was so, like, anticlimactic. It's like she just drives into this complex and she gets out of the car and then walks into prison. That's it?

Speaker: And that's it. She's in prison. That prison, by the way, also where Ghislaine Maxwell got transferred to. oh What? Yeah. The one that caused all the stir. It's like, why is she being moved to minimum security? She's a sex offender.

Speaker: Like, that's they're not supposed to be in there. She is in the Bryan work camp. Wow. I was kind of hoping there would be a ah like a little cameo. but okay That's crazy.

Speaker: Yeah. Halfway done to the movie at this point. And I'm sure, yeah, we're all thinking, now what? you you You lost your subject. And there's still an hour and a half of movie.

Speaker: So, like, now what? And then it fast forwards two years later. um Do we see Billy first?

Speaker: I can't remember. Or do we see our actress first? Our surprise guest. I thought we... I think it's the surprise guest. I think it's the surprise guest. It's a shot of...

Speaker: Or maybe it's like a quick Billy, like a little Billy check-in. Yeah, I can't remember if it's if it's the Billy where we see him like at the shooting range. Yes, it's that. that We see like the lizard in the house and he's at the shooting range and obviously he's like

Speaker: Being more accustomed to to to living now in Texas, he immediately is giving like the Elon Musk tech bro. um Yeah. His face is also super puffy, and he's sniffling a lot, which suggests some ah extracurriculars that maybe he's been getting into.

Speaker: and then when our special guest, Amanda Seafree. Spoilers. We already said spoilers. It's here. Double spoilers. Double spoilers. ah Nathan is showing Amanda footage of what we just watched. He shows her the first hour and a half of of You Can See Everything, basically.

Speaker: And if you're unaware, Amanda Seyfried played Elizabeth Holmes in The Dropout. In The Dropout. And you're like, oh, why is she here? Why is he showing her this? And it's like a... It's a very...

Speaker: I sat up in my seat. i did I did that meme of her like now processing watching the person that she played and we're getting like that conversation. It's very introspective and really interesting and really like human.

Speaker: from like a big A-list actresses perspective of now watching this real person, she's like I've never like interacted with her and anything like that. like So I was just like, that's so weird.

Speaker: It's gotta be such a weird like inception type feeling. But I mean, what do you guys thinking at this point? She specifically calls out her only interaction with her was the deposition tapes, like 10 hours. Yeah. What are you guys feeling when you see Amanda Seyfried on screen? Like, are you like like what's happening?

Speaker: I'm all in. Yeah. I was like, this is about to get weird. It's about to get real weird. um And then so we get, we we're following Amanda and then Billy. Billy becomes like a very big point in this documentary.

Speaker: um We see that he's still trying to work on Theranos 2.0. He's talking to Nathan and

Speaker: Bro, I hate Billy. he just This is when he just really becomes something else. this the scene where they're with the third guy? Yeah. The technology dude and Billy shuts down the interview? Joe, I think is his name.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. He looks like a Joe.

Speaker: Very uncomfortable. Nathan's just asking Joe questions of like of what is like the work that they're doing and are they worried about like the history with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos and theinoid are being attached to that.

Speaker: And Billy's yeah trying to control the narrative. We're not doing this anymore. We're not. Turn the cameras off. i'll be I'll be happy to talk to you if you turn the cameras off. Yeah. And Nathan's also pissed, like, like anger that I hadn't seen from him before. And i was like, oh, that's kind of scary. I don't want to see him get mad.

Speaker: I would have, if I was Nathan, I would have, if I was the sound guy, I would have left the sound on. Yeah. Like turn, they turn the cameras off and you just like quietly like lower the mic then.

Speaker: You just hear everything. It's like the, uh, in pop star Tachi with the the queen bee, like turn the cameras off.

Speaker: That's exactly what they should have done. for sure.

Speaker: And then Billy is also, I guess, in conversation with some other guy who's putting on some weird like pseudo play. about What was that? don't know. That pro looked like the king of cannabis. Yeah.

Speaker: What was that about? i don't i don't know. The founders? i don't here i want to I don't remember him ever saying a name. i think they were only alluding to the guy. Yeah. But this this guy was just putting up random ass billboards, advertising something with her likeness, like her her image, this like very specific pose that she's uh, did not like.

Speaker: Yeah. And yeah, admitted that she didn't like. Yeah. And it just adds more to the conversation of, of people like, yes, she's being taken advantage of, um,

Speaker: But then on the other hand, is there's that ah question of like how how much does she know? like How much is she actually be guilty of? But yes, um I think it can be confirmed pretty confidently that people do take advantage of her repeatedly.

Speaker: And it feels like at this point that we're 100% like, okay, Billy's the villain, obviously taking advantage of the entire situation. Because Nathan's like, do you tell Liz about any of this?

Speaker: And he's like, i mean, not directly. Like, he kind of is bouncing around. He's like, he's like not really, but like, we trust each other. And everything that I do is in the best interest of her.

Speaker: And Nathan's like, but she doesn't like that picture. And she... She said she doesn't like that picture. And he's like, I don't recall her saying that. And Nathan's like, we have it on camera. yeah He's like, probably not.

Speaker: We literally have it. And we can touch on the ah the X stuff. Because that was also very weird from Billy. If you've been on Twitter and you're in this like you the movie space and you've been interested in this movie specifically, you've probably seen or heard that the Elizabeth Holmes Twitter account has been pretty active. Yeah. i was like, how is she tweeting?

Speaker: It's Billy. Yeah. It is. It's revealed that like everything that's tweeted is Billy. And I remember seeing some of the tweets, especially the ones that are like expletives. And it's just, it's all Billy. Like, it's crazy. And he's like, what do mean? Like, how did you get her account? And he's like, oh, I know some higher ups at, at X. And i was just like, Hey, I need the account. And they gave me the password.

Speaker: And then he reveals that even though she is alive, he has power of attorney. Yeah. And I don't think still they are married. Like he's not even her husband and he has power of attorney and can do, which is crazy. and Leading up.

Speaker: Yeah. Leading up to this, Nathan asks Amanda and Amanda is becoming more and more involved in this story. And I'm like, Oh my God, just she along for the ride? And sure enough, she's along for the ride. And they come up with a plan to try to like,

Speaker: just get information out of Billy. Like it's very clear at this point, like we're just going to follow Billy and what is happening with him. And they kind of want to use Amanda to get him to talk in a way. well we're missing some context as well.

Speaker: we're getting ahead of ourselves because there are two scenes. Amanda is along for the ride here, partially because Nathan is having her play Elizabeth in scenes that he experienced, but we're not on film. Yeah. So the first one is when he first met Elizabeth. And that's when we learned that Elizabeth really had no idea what Nathan for you was or any of his other stuff.

Speaker: um And then, you know, she, That's when she meets him. The second scene is one that happened between Billy and Elizabeth, as well as Lance and two other A24 producers. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: ah producers Where Elizabeth is there with them. um she She goes upstairs, and then Billy is like, hey, actually, I want to sign, like, like we'll release ourselves to this if you we can profit off this, which is crazy for a documentary. Yeah. um He brings specifically up the the Meghan Markle, Prince Harry one. He's like, well, they got paid for their documentary. And it's like, well, that's not a documentary. Yeah. um

Speaker: And so the the question was, does Elizabeth know she's making money off this? Because there's a scene that um was captured where she says, like I am not making money off this documentary. Yeah.

Speaker: Like, we're doing this because i want people to see the real me. And so Nathan was like, i it does she know that they that Billy is is like signed this and that money is being made off of this and so that's what they were going to try and ambush him for and figure out about you know does a man or does does Amanda know does Elizabeth know clientants get blurred whether or not they are making money off this I think this is the best

Speaker: Okay. We're getting a message now for the first time. This is the first time in pot history I'm being handed a note. Someone just walked into Alex's room. All right. can leave now. You can leave. All right. No, this isn't funny anymore. Get out.

Speaker: Now you're doing this on purpose. um Okay. ah Lovely.

Speaker: um So they're going to ambush Billy and see, does Amanda know? or i did it again. Does Elizabeth know that they are making money off this documentary? Yeah.

Speaker: This is where I want to bring up the meat shot. Okay. Because

Speaker: it all tied together.

Speaker: Billy is probably, well, so we know that Nathan like heard that these two were like wanting, like there was a rumbling that these two wanted to make this documentary.

Speaker: And um they so like they wanted this made. They were not approached. They ah softly approached probably numerous people about this. Yeah, they did.

Speaker: This, they wanted this to be Elizabeth Holmes propaganda. And you can see that from, you know, what Billy wanted them to film, which was like, oh, we're interacting with the family, like all these like random B-roll shots.

Speaker: Look at how like domestic and normal we are and how innocent and cute and bubbly we are. But this guy has a heck of an ego.

Speaker: Heck of an ego. yep He brings up how he's good with girls, how he's good at sex. and um He, i guarantee you I guarantee you, and this is you know speculation, but I guarantee that this speculation is real.

Speaker: um He asked for it to be in the movie. he He probably went out of his way to ask to filmed naked and have this put in the documentary because he wanted to show off you know that.

Speaker: He's very much the gym montage as well. Yeah. all You guys can come watch me work out. Why the fuck would we want to watch you work out? This guy is So self-centered. Yeah.

Speaker: Narcissistic. um

Speaker: Definitely probably a little sociopathic. And that's that was really when it all clicked. I'm like, I almost don't even think this is an Elizabeth Holmes documentary at this point. I think it's a Billy documentary. Yeah.

Speaker: this This dinner scene was electric. This was the grenade in the theater. This makes sense. Okay. This is the grenade. especially Specifically, one man is named, and that was the grenade. Is this the first Charlie Kirk mentioned in film?

Speaker: I think so. I think so. Nuts. um Yeah. When they said Charlie, like, oh, a man is not doing so good on social media right now. like oh why like She said something bad about Charlie Kirk and I was just like, oh! like My theater erupted.

Speaker: And then he went, his voice is going to carry on much longer than yours. And everyone was like, oh! Just screaming. Dude, i that's so... It makes so much sense.

Speaker: Yeah. and but he's a book you all of that Even before this, the crazy bit. like i we're this i feel I feel like this is one of our most ADHD episodes. yeah Because there's so much that happens. so much this movie yeah Five minutes before the grenade is thrown, Amanda gets put on the phone with Elizabeth. Oh my God. That was the craziest moment and for me for the whole thing. She gets ambushed by the phone. It's like, Billy's like, oh, I'm with, you know, I'm with ah you know Nathan. I'm with Lance. And, oh yeah, Amanda's here. Amanda, here's Elizabeth. And it's like,

Speaker: hey like yeah she's like Hey, queen. She's like, did you know I was going to be here? And then Elizabeth Holmes just goes, I don't know. yeah Yeah, I guess didn't know. What do you mean you don't know? That's all you ever say.

Speaker: And then Amanda's just like, oh, like I couldn't even imagine. That's got to be like skin crawling. She's like, I don't want to take like the time away from your family. like I hope it's okay that I'm here.

Speaker: It's a two-minute phone call. That's all they Yeah. i I thought this was this scene was going to kind of go somewhere else, but then it gets into the very heated dinner argument. And obviously, like a man like they've had some drinks together, and Nathan's kind of just in the middle of this watching these two like fight. And I'm like, the audacity of of Billy, like just nasty person.

Speaker: just a nasty person Yeah, very demeaning, always talking down to Amanda. Yeah, um it's it's rough. It's really fiery.

Speaker: I think she holds her own well. I think so she does. She does. She's the people's champ. Yeah. um Yeah, but the first reveal of Nathan pulling the rehearsal, so I know you guys haven't seen it, but this is essentially what he does for for both seasons, both just different situations. But he makes up situations to rehearse for real-life scenarios because he's he just wants to be prepared.

Speaker: So i'm like I'm watching this, and I'm like, oh, my God. All of that led up to this. The rehearsal season one and two led to Elizabeth Holmes and this whole thing happening. And i was just, I was just insanely locked in to see where else, where else the story was going to go.

Speaker: um

Speaker: They meet Billy at the WeWork. And he's like paranoid and talking about like a video he made just in case people get them. Cause his car has been tailed. He's always carrying a gun on him.

Speaker: Um, and this is fall. This is Nathan trying to get more, I guess, information about the deal and as to why. And like, he's trying to ask, like, does Elizabeth know? Because they don't really get that from him at the dinner scene, like at all. Cause it just goes a completely different direction.

Speaker: Right. Um, But yeah, that he can't make, like Nathan's trying to explain like why he can't make that deal. And does Elizabeth know?

Speaker: Or he's he's recommending that they don't take the deal because would pay her in a very bad light. So he's trying to defend Elizabeth to Elizabeth's boyfriend who's getting pushed back. And you're like,

Speaker: what why is billy like on this side of things it it has to be completely fueled by greed and and again you're wondering how much does she know yeah how much was planned like how much was coordinated between the two to act a certain way and say certain things and at this point in the movie it feels like she's like the damsel in distress without a voice that we can't talk to and nathan is like i need to talk to her Like I have to talk to her and he's trying to set that up and Billy is, is like cock blocking that just making it not happen.

Speaker: And he's like, does Elizabeth want that or do you want that? And he's going through like all these efforts of trying and then Billy kind of confronts Nathan over the phone and is like, okay, well, what do you want to talk about? Like you can talk about it with me.

Speaker: he's like, no, I want to talk to, I want to talk to Liz. Um, He eventually gets in contact with her with one of my favorite like editing sequences of Nathan in the room in the hotel room waiting for Elizabeth to call, but they can't record it.

Speaker: And the music is like swelling. And right when he like the the the automated operators like press one to accept the call and the music just like building up. And as soon as he pushes it, the silence cuts out.

Speaker: You just hear him out. And I was just like, I had chills. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I need it. i was like, I need to hear this conversation. And sure enough.

Speaker: He recites it with Amanda.

Speaker: So good. So good. And it's such like a nothing of a phone call too. Yeah. It's just edited so well. But they they don't really talk about much.

Speaker: But she wants Nathan to visit her in prison.

Speaker: So he eventually does, and that's very intense and like thrilling because they have it's like a visitation hour, and he can he knows when Billy shows up, so he tries to show up earlier.

Speaker: And it's very it's very suspenseful because you don't know if he's going to walk through through the door. And Nathan has all these questions, and it wants to tell her, he's like, you're being taken advantage of, like Billy's taking advantage of you.

Speaker: And it's like the most like gut-wrenching, heartbreaking scene. And also I think a source of a lot of confusion. So I'm excited to talk about it. Because at the end of the day, how accurate is the depiction? Nathan goes to the prison, but he obviously can't bring any recording equipment or cameras or anything like that.

Speaker: Can't write anything down. Yeah, didn't write anything down. So he's reciting the conversation that he had with Liz to Amanda via script so they can act it out.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And my God.

Speaker: What a scene.

Speaker: Yeah, that reenactment was pretty powerful. And towards the end of it, there's this takeaway that Nathan has where he's just like, she, when, when Billy walks in with the kids after, you know, their, their conversation is about to wrap up, but Billy walks in and interrupts and,

Speaker: um He's like, a man or not not Amanda, I just put an Alex. Elizabeth looks at Billy with so much love and like there's like no conflict or friction between the two. like She like appreciates Billy so much and that's just, he he takes away that as like the truth of the relationship is that she actually loves Billy.

Speaker: Like he thought he was like saving her and just isn't getting the reaction he was hoping. Maybe he's like, I don't like, I don't know what it is. Cause it's like, are you complicit? Like, did you know?

Speaker: and forget exactly what she says, but they, uh, you guys remember what the quote was? Amanda even like asked Nathan about It's like, well, did she say this or did she say that? And then they scratch out the word. It's like, okay, well maybe she said this. It was it and something, but I don't remember the lead up.

Speaker: it It had to do with the deal. It was like, oh, I i don't know. I that's

Speaker: i usually let Billy handle that. or yeah that She was like like i like, I knew about it. And then Amanda's like, oh, wait. I knew he was talking to you about something. But his original thought was, i knew he was talking to you about it.

Speaker: And then he he thinks about it with Amanda. He's like, oh, maybe she said something. yeah So it's like, what what did she say? like What is the truth? that Memory is a very fickle thing. yeah Yeah, and that's the whole miscommunication thing because that word between it and something changes the entire context of the conversation.

Speaker: And so now we're just like, okay, well, what are we supposed to believe? And then Amanda questions Nathan at the end of it Yeah. Oh, did you leave anything out? Yeah. I think would hurt Liz. And he's like, what are you, what are you talking about? He's like, and she's like, trying like insinuating, like, are you trying to protect her for something? And, and then it cuts to the beach where Liz got Nathan in the water.

Speaker: Real quick though, the reenactment with Amanda during the visit, she was excellent. So good. So good. yeah so good Excellent. But yeah, the way that that beach scene from earlier that Tachi was talking about in her cut.

Speaker: um Because she asks him way earlier in the movie if she wants to go, if Nathan wants to go to the beach with with her. Do a cold plunge. Do a cold plunge. And he says no. He declines the invitation. um And then we don't see it again.

Speaker: Until we do. And there's footage of Nathan and Elizabeth Holmes in the ocean together, frolicking. Like playing together, touching each other.

Speaker: Also, he's like kind of jacked. I was not expecting that. He's a very muscular dude. He kind of is. i was wearing sweater. prize Yeah, because at first I'm like, who is that?

Speaker: I know. And the camera's just like slowly zooming in and you're like, oh my god. And so you're like, is he compromised?

Speaker: Could be. And the movie ends.

Speaker: I went to the bathroom after I out of the movie because, you know, I had a soda, like a jumbo soda, and I held it for three hours because i'm a trooper. And there was like four dudes in the bathroom like screaming about how

Speaker: Nathan is in love with Liz. What are you guys' thoughts?

Speaker: um it It is really hard to tell if his affection for her, which I think we can say with a decent amount of certainty is real.

Speaker: He does care for her. And I think that shines through the movie.

Speaker: But whether it's romantic or not, i don't know.

Speaker: I kind of want to lean yes, but I don't know Nathan. And I don't know him outside of his character that he likes to put on camera. um So it's it's really hard to tell.

Speaker: It's very interesting that like the end of it, he was going through a breakup IRL. And he makes a point to tell her that too in the note. Yeah. And I go back and forth. I think there's some sort of level of affection there.

Speaker: I don't know if it's caring. i don't know if it's like, I feel bad for her I'm like, she got me. I'm i'm stuck in her little. Elizabeth is the goat thing that she convinced everybody on, but he cares for her on some level to, you know, but he cares for her. be I think maybe it's just he doesn't want to see her get hurt any more than she already has, whether you think that hurt is justified or not, right?

Speaker: Like, I mean, she did a bad thing. She has to feel the consequences, and her life is being torn apart. She's massively in debt. She, you know, has been away from kids for years.

Speaker: But she also has, you know, had a lot of trauma happen to her. um You know, the the rape that was brought up, um truly an awful, damaging thing.

Speaker: Her relationship with Sonny Balwani um is an absolute mess. Yeah. And clearly, the last three years here, Nathan has been watching Billy be a maniac and control like every aspect of Liz's life, like almost like he's her in-house personal PR machine trying to save her.

Speaker: Um... And so for me, I think the affection and like the love isn't in a romantic sense, but like from like, I do care about this person sense.

Speaker: What do you think Malik? The, I agree. So there are some episodes of Nathan for you. And then season one of the rehearsal uh, like Nathan's very transparent about how he's just like not good with talking to people or talking to women and sets himself up in these like very strange and like funny situations, but to the point where you're like, oh, I feel bad for you.

Speaker: Like this is a person like he's a person who seems like he wants those relationships and wants like that love and care and just doesn't get it. And he's very private about his love life. And i don't know who he was dating or who he broke up with or I don't know if much people know like information about that. um I think the breakup is important.

Speaker: Because it points us to that he that he does have these like romantic feelings. But at this point, he's completely compromised and an unreliable narrator to the point where Nathan is interviewing the subject and in that last hour also becomes the subject.

Speaker: And now it's Lance and Amanda kind of pointing at Nathan. And so I don't really know... what to believe, which is like the whole message and point of this entire documentary and the miscommunication of it all. Cause it's like, did he fall for it?

Speaker: Is Elizabeth being real? Are we falling for Elizabeth? There's just so many questions. Like, I just, I literally just don't know. and it's And it left me with such like a crazy feeling, like the last shot being Billy and Elizabeth on the prison grounds sharing the turkey jerky that she likes, that being like the very last shot.

Speaker: And then it goes to black. And I was like, wow.

Speaker: There's, it feels ongoing. And I'm like, how does Nathan feel about Elizabeth? I don't think we'll like ever know. And I'm mad about it. I want to know.

Speaker: I don't know. There's so much. There's there's just so much there that I, it's great. I don't know, man.

Speaker: What was your guys' is like conclusion of it all? If there is one. It's hard to form a conclusion after, you know, really just only getting more questions from, from what we just watched. And personally, i think,

Speaker: yes, she is completely guilty of several things. And yes, point part of the movie is, is pointing to the fact that she is a victim and in some way.

Speaker: But at some level, and and Amanda talks about this as well, when when they're talking about the production of her show, and she's portraying Elizabeth in a certain way, where there just there has to be a point where she knows something is wrong,

Speaker: but she just steams forward anyways, where they're, they're failing these tests. Like it does not work. It clearly so clearly does not work. So how can Elizabeth just say, uh, I, I didn't deceive anyone. I'm innocent, but it's, that's the message that we keep getting from her, Billy, the family that she is not responsible for anything, but that just can't be true.

Speaker: We're like in her clutches, like all of us, Nathan included. And it's just like, how? How did this happen? How did she get so far with this? Why are we under this spell?

Speaker: To become someone worth more than a billion dollars, whether it lasts a long time or not, at some level, you are taking advantage of someone along the way.

Speaker: So I don't know.

Speaker: What about you, Alex? i I mean, the the the takeaway I got is it's like, look how complex people are. know, we've been conditioned to think one thing about Elizabeth, and but now we have this whole other side of her, like the the tiger in the cage. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Speaker: Although i don't know, don't think Billy's very black and white. mean, guy just sucks. That's a bad dude. Yeah. But um no, I mean, i loved how confused I felt walking away. I think that was like, well, you're right. Part of is like, what is the point? Right.

Speaker: um It was three hours. None of it felt wasted. And yet I like, I'm not even sure what conclusion I came to. hmm.

Speaker: Yeah, is one of the few times i I left very happy with an ambiguous ending, which I typically don't like, but this was just incredible. Just incredible all around, like the way it looks, the score, the performance aspect of it as well is insane.

Speaker: Um, Yeah, man, um this is like movie of the year for me so far. Higher than Disclosure Day? Yes, higher than Disclosure Day.

Speaker: Do we want to talk about its Oscar chances before we get to our ratings? Yes. And where we think this kind of will land or stand.

Speaker: I think.

Speaker: It should absolutely, I mean, it should just carry the the the documentary category. Yeah. But the the real question is, does this become the first nonfiction movie to would get nominated for Best Picture? And I wrote this in my Letterboxd review.

Speaker: I think if this doesn't, nothing will. Yeah. And I'm to stand by that. um It should. This should be nominated for Best Picture. Yeah.

Speaker: I don't really see how you don't include it. Same. Same. Do we think Nathan and Lance for best director? oh If it gets nominated for best picture, they they do. Yeah, they get a nomination for best director. They're co-directors?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's both it's both of them. um Amanda for best actress. No, no. If anything, it'd be supporting.

Speaker: Okay, supporting, yeah. yeah But I don't think she does. You don't think she gets nominated? No, I think this gets nominated for, like I'd say, soundtrack, cinematography, BP, and Best Director.

Speaker: That's going to be some crazy history if it's the first documentary nominated for Best Picture. I agree with you, though. not this, nothing else. Yeah. Wait, moli did you give your takeaway at the end when you walked out? He he kicked us off, right?

Speaker: but well Yeah. Yeah. I kicked us off with that. Okay. Yeah. um I've just never seen anything like this. And I was completely mesmerized for the entire three hour runtime.

Speaker: And while not a traditional documentary in any sense of the word, I think it questions like documentaries, like as a whole, from like a truth standpoint and like an objective standpoint. and like we can only We can only believe so much like as the audience. like The very presence of cameras and money just questions it all.

Speaker: And while there's no answer to anything really it's just a very interesting ah look at like the human psyche and and i loved it and i just can't believe like if you would have told me 10 years ago that nathan fielder would have been doing something of this caliber i'd be like oh wait the guy who who hooked himself up to a claw machine that was going to take off his pants in front of a group of children um with police on standby and if he didn't get out in time he was going to be registered as a sex offender that nathan fielder I wouldn't have believed you.

Speaker: But here we are.

Speaker: If you you caught it then, that could have been your second Robert Pattinson. yeah Yeah, I would buy lottery tickets if I did. Sorry, what did you say, Ox? Yeah, this is something else. I mean, the closest thing I've ever seen to it is Abbas Kyrostami's close-up.

Speaker: Like a very similar like documentary film. acting mix very hard to describe just blends reality and fiction you put that in your letterbox review and i added it to my watch list yeah i think it's a must watch if you like this all right final readings sure i walked out and this was the easiest five out of five for me that that has ever been i think this is my first five of the year if i'm not mistaken and um i believe it is as well yeah you're coward i am a coward but this is it like just just all around great job this is this is this is something special

Speaker: don't be scared guys join me the water's fine

Speaker: I want to. i want to give it a five, but I feel like right now my heart says a four and a half. Okay, that's fair. It's the second best thing I've seen this year behind the big dig.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Um, Malik, I got to join you. It's gotta be a five star, but it it is, I will, it is the most confusing five star I've ever had. yeah That's for sure. It's so strange. It's such a strange movie, but man, is it so well produced.

Speaker: I mean, this this really shows the ceiling for for documentaries and and nonfiction ah productions moving forward. Like those things can be so gripping and enthralling and and.

Speaker: I don't know, it's just incredible. Yeah, i don't even know how you begin to to make something like this. Like just crazy, like they like kind of stumped. They stumbled into the story. i don't know. It's it's just crazy.

Speaker: um I wanted to play the this clip that Alex shared of Elizabeth Holmes' real voice versus her fake voice. see For context, this is the voice she would put on around like business people and work, and it's called out by everybody who knew her. It's like, wow.

Speaker: This deep, strong voice, and it was really striking. Yeah. right, here we go. looking around on the web in which he sounded quite different. this It turned out he had a nub on his elbow and we talked to our lab team and they said okay you can do the draw and so they did this what would have been a finger stick on this little nub on his arm and sure yeah i'm Over the last 11 years, we've reinvented the traditional laboratory infrastructure.

Speaker: in a 2023.

Speaker: She had an obsession with Steve Jobs. She did. Yeah. I mean, the the turtleneck, the look, but it's called out in bad blood. This is the funniest bit of the whole book was one of the former employees said that he could tell what chapter of his biography, the very famous biography she was on because she would just like be reenacting like whatever he did. Wow.

Speaker: Like she would be doing whatever the thing was. That's hilarious. I mean, there's a part in the movie where when they're watching the dropout together and she's it's the scene of Amanda like like dancing with music like in front of a Steve Jobs poster. And Ethan turns to her and goes, did you do that? And she's like, no, like um maybe she did.

Speaker: There are actually several points through the movie where I, I, I feel, or I hear her voice like inflection going high and low. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of all over the place sometimes, but.

Speaker: Like she couldn't decide exactly where to land. Hmm. Very interesting person. i don't know if we'll ever get the answers that that we're looking for. She's moving to a half house August of 2027, I believe, and then she'll be released in 2030.

Speaker: Her sentence was shortened um a couple times, and then, yeah, she'll be free February of 2030 as of right now.

Speaker: So I wonder where else the story will go.

Speaker: Do you guys think Amanda and Nathan had a ah little ah little fling together? That's something I've seen floating around. Nah. I don't know. I didn't get that. I got like bestie vibe from them. Yeah.

Speaker: I could see it. Any closing thoughts? Go see it. Yeah. Go see your own conclusions. Yeah. Go see everything. Let us know when you do see everything. um Don't forget to like and subscribe on YouTube. Five stars on Spotify and follow us on Letterboxd.

Speaker: We'll be back next week with our Halloween episode, which we got to discuss exactly what that's going to be. All

Speaker: right. Well, we'll get to it. But thank you so much for listening. and We'll see you guys in the next one. Peace.