Transcript
Speaker: You guys know that Maggie and I love sharing the successes of our fellow podcasters and we have a great one to share with you this week.
Speaker: We have told you how humbled and grateful we are to be finalists in the Best Female Hosted Podcast in the People's Choice Podcast Awards. And we're super proud of the ladies from the Fresh Hell True Crime Podcast for winning that category. Annie, a host from the US, and Johanna, a host from Austria, get together each week for new true crime haunts and murder historical craziness.
Speaker: It's a true international podcast from some wonderful people. So please check them out, leave them a five -star review and let them know that Maggie and Allison sent you. Now here's a little about their show.
Speaker: I'm Annie from Boston, Massachusetts. And I'm Johanna from Vienna, Austria. We're the hosts of Fresh Hell, your international podcast that covers murder, mystery and the macabre throughout history. Are you interested in the 3 ,569 ways your household could have killed you in the Victorian era? Do you know how malaria and syphilis played a role in the John List family murders?
Speaker: And have you ever wondered what Prince Albert's sex chair had to do with the murder of Stanford White? Okay, nothing. It had nothing to do with it. We're still telling you about it though. It's a pretty great sex chair. If you're looking for another show that talks about Ted Bundy, this is probably not the podcast for you. But if you're looking for two women that cover lesser known cases from all over the world with a lot of background information.
Speaker: So much background information that you will rock your local pub quiz from now on. Then find Rachelle podcast on your favorite podcast app. We also have German cannibals. See you soon.
Speaker: As any short or long -term listener knows, I absolutely love October, November, and December. Those three little months are packed with so much magic and so many memories that I can't help but love them. Christmas, even for this now 32 year old, is still full of wonder and magic. My family didn't have a lot growing up, but somehow my mom managed to make every single Christmas special.
Speaker: She would always make such a big deal out of decorating the Christmas tree. She'd pack the tree with so many lights it was probably visible from space. Every ornament had just the right spot in that old Christmas tree she found at a flea market. The most important ornaments were at the top of the tree where they still hang today, though the flea market tree was replaced a few years ago.
Speaker: November was all about the food and the laughs around the table. As you all know, my family is massive. So oftentimes many of us ended up eating around the coffee table or using our laps as tables for our plates. Since my Mammy has gotten older, she no longer lives in the home that house so many of our family get togethers. So while it's less nostalgic, we still spend time with the family we have at my aunt's and laugh just as much as we did all those years ago.
Speaker: And while I love the magic of Christmas and the memories of Thanksgiving, nothing compares to experiencing Halloween. The thrill of dressing up, the candy, everything. But being from Kentucky means that Halloween's weather can be a mystery.
Speaker: You may want to be a genie. Well, good luck because some Halloweens are mild and that's fine, but some can be snowy, so be prepared. I remember layering sweatpants under so many of my costumes just to try to stay warm. It was strange to me when Anthony and I moved into a subdivision and figured out that there was a set time for trick -or -treating because growing up it was just always when the sun set because I remember I was not very proficient at the waiting process.
Speaker: Now that I'm grown, I live to recreate the same experience I had for children that are in my neighborhood. So Anthony and I go all out, turning our front yard into a haunted carnival. We give out candy to hundreds of trick -or -treaters, and I absolutely love it. On allpoetry .com, I found a poem called Trick or Treat that perfectly sums up experiencing Halloween.
Speaker: Every kid, watching the clock, hours pass by slowly until it's 7pm. Costumes are dawned, although many already have them on, and the streets are filled with ghosts and goblins and ghouls. Until the Halloween theme disperses, a Rubik's Cube, famous people, a kid dressed as a daisy, spooky and not -so -spooky mix. Marching down the sidewalks, there's a nip in the air, but you wouldn't have dreamed of covering up your costume with a jacket.
Speaker: Door to door, free candy gathered in your bags. You spend a few minutes at each party house. Moves playing with snacks galore. Pillow sheets filled up. Bags gang weight. Your mouth feels dry from candy. As the time itches closer to midnight, your eyes start to droop. But candy will always outweigh sleepiness. Duh.
Speaker: Finally, your parents force you home, costumes hanging over your tired figures as you give a sad glance at all those unrung doorbells, creeping houses, shedding costumes, sorting candy on the floor, tucked in bed, knowing way too much sugar awaits you in the morning. On October 30th, 1982, Marvin Brandland and his wife, Ethel, had spent the evening giving out candy to trick -or -treaters when another trick -or -treater knocked on their door. Someone wearing a pillowcase with holes cut out for eyes stood outside.
Speaker: Trick or treat, give me money or I'll shoot you, the trick or treater said. Sadly, Marvin wouldn't survive the night. This is the story of Marvin Brandland.
Speaker: Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold.
Speaker: My name is Allison Williams and my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
Speaker: With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week. Okay. Before we even get started. Yes. I don't know if I've ever said this before, but it is like my life
Speaker: goal to go to Austria. Like I know that people are probably like, that is really weird, but it is because I'm obsessed. Yes. Yes. I'm obsessed with that movie. So now I feel like I have a friend there and I know. And is it sad that I knew exactly why you love Austria?
Speaker: No, because I know we know each other that way. Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, you all may have noticed I sound like a frog is in my throat today. I don't know what's wrong with me. I feel like we're on fall break and I feel like as soon as I'm out of school for any extended period of time, my immune system is like, well, you don't really need us right now. We're going to take a break.
Speaker: Right. And like I always catch a cold or something, but I've taken no exaggeration, seven COVID tests within the past like five days, they've all been negative. I really just think it's allergies. So if you're listening to the show the first time, no, I do not normally sound like this. So bear with us. I just shared a meme on our certified Sleuthhounds Facebook group. And it said, if every day is a gift, then today was socks.
Speaker: So that just kind of sums up Maggie's day.
Speaker: Yeah. Today with socks. That's fun. Today with socks. That's fine. And so if you hear some clicking sounds, it's going to be because I'm sucking on a cough drop. But it's fine. And we're going to get through the episode and begin. That's right. And let me also add really quick here. I know we normally save all of this for the end. But I just wanted to add a quick note in here at the beginning for those who don't stick around for the love notes, which shame on you. But I get it. Some of us are busy.
Speaker: So next Monday, October 17th, we are actually going to drop a full episode from a true crime podcasting friend of ours. And she is doing the same for us on her feed so that we can help make sure that our cases are getting as large of an audience as possible.
Speaker: So please check out her case that will happen next Monday, but we will also have a regular episode on October 20th. And then instead of releasing a regular episode on Thursday, October 27th, we will actually be releasing two episodes.
Speaker: an interview with a film director about one of our cases that will happen on Tuesday, October 25th, and then a Halloween extravaganza special with more than 20 other podcasters who you know and love that will be released for Halloween and all of that before we get back to our normal Thursday weekly episodes starting on November 3rd. So I mean, we have been busy.
Speaker: Yeah. And I know I put on Patreon, like, sorry, this is late. We've been really busy. Like, it's not an exaggeration. In my calendar, there's something every single day. Oh, yeah. Some days, multiple things. I'm like, where will I eat in here? And sleep. Right.
Speaker: So yes, we have been busy. And so because we have been a little bit busy and it's nearing spooky season, I thought I would pick an episode today that centers around the peak of spooky time. So October 30th. So right before Halloween. This terrifies me though, your intro, by the way. Yeah. It's a little oops. Yeah.
Speaker: We'll talk about, we'll get there. Okay. Luckily though, for trick -or -treaters of Fort Dodge, Iowa, the weather was relatively warm that night with temperatures. So, you know, in the intro I talked about, like I specifically remember being a genie and I had like a little tiny belly shirt and it was like 30 degrees for trick -or -treat. Your skin turns blue. Yeah. And you really do look like the allowed genie.
Speaker: But luckily for them, the temperatures that night were right around 50 degrees. So pretty good for October 30th in Iowa. And Marvin and Ethel, what freaking cute names for old people. So adorable. Had spent the evening giving out candy at their home. They had seen the usual costumes, princesses, vampires, fairies, football players, all of that jazz.
Speaker: But the night was slowly starting to wrap up. Teresa, the couple's granddaughter, had been visiting with her grandparents that night, but left around seven because it was getting light and the steady stream of trick -or -treaters they had been experiencing was starting to dwindle down. So she's like, you know what, I'm going to go home. This party's ending early.
Speaker: I know, but I feel like it might be different in this town, but I feel like we start trick or treat too early. It's like not even dark and we've already given out like all of our candy. I'm like, this is not correct.
Speaker: I know you know what's sad to me though about Halloween side note is all the prepackaged candy and I totally get it because you know times aren't what they once were but my grandma would make homemade caramel popcorn balls.
Speaker: Every Halloween when I was really young and I remember I would be like, please let nobody come to my grandma's house. Please let nobody, because then I would get the leftovers. But I bet everybody was like, we're going to grandma's house cuz she's giving away popcorn. Right, that's right. We're giving away cookies this year. Okay. Cuz I have a kid that is dairy, like has a dairy allergy. And so I was like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm going to give candy that, or a treat anybody could eat. So we're doing these dairy -free cookies I found. Well, yeah. So if you're in the area, come get a cookie. But yes, the line to their house had started to dwindle, but Teresa was like, you know what?
Speaker: You guys can handle it from here. I'm going to go on home. And so she left the couple assuming that the other kids in the neighborhood were also wrapping up the night. And so as she's leaving, the two start doing other things around the house. And Anthony and I will do this too. Like sometimes if it's starting to get later, but there's like some scragglers, I'll just leave the candy bowl outside, you know? Oh yeah.
Speaker: But reports stated that another trick -or -treater actually rang their doorbell around 7 .30, so just 30 minutes after Teresa had left, ish, approximately. Ethel opened the door and saw someone wearing a pillowcase over their head with the eyes cut out, so a ghosty costume. But not even a whole sheet.
Speaker: A pillowcase. Just the pillowcase. Okay. And I don't know if you all get many trick -or -treaters in your neighborhood, Allison, because I know you're kind of out of the country and it's not a huge neighborhood. We always take my little sleuth hound elsewhere. Yeah. Don't blame me. But we get a lot in our neighborhood because there's sidewalks, it's really well lit, and it's a big neighborhood. So we usually get like a hundred trick -or -treaters.
Speaker: And I feel like there is a somewhat unspoken rule that once you get to a certain age, you aren't supposed to trick or treat. Oh, we've had this debate in my house. Yes, because like some of the people that I work with that have older kids in like sixth or seventh grade, they're like, well, this is our last year to trick or treat.
Speaker: You know, and I, okay, I don't think there should be an age limit on trick -or -treating. Me either. I mean, I get, if you're, you know, like me, you're in your 40s and you want to go, I get that. And it's weird. But my little soothe hound is 13 and Rodney has been like, okay, this is your last year. So, I mean, she wants to go all out, which, I mean, she's fine with it. I think she's a little bit sad though.
Speaker: You know, I think 13 was my last year too. And my mom, I dressed up like Miss America. That's awesome. But I think we, kids grow up so fast and we force them to grow up so fast. Just give them the candy. Let them be little as long as they can.
Speaker: five or six extra little pieces of candy is not gonna make or break me. Like, come to my house, I will give you candy. There's tons of other things that you could be doing that is not safe or good for you. So, come get candy. You know what? I totally agree with that. At least if they're walking around door to door getting candy, they're not out doing bad stuff. Right, exactly.
Speaker: And I think, or I would like to think, that Ethel and Marvin would agree with us, because despite the fact that this trick -or -treater looks older, because you know, when they're older, they come to my house with their basketball jersey on, or just a mask on. They don't put a lot of effort into it, but you know what? You're being a kid, so here's your candy. Right. And so the two open the door, and this trick -or -treater's there, and Ethel turns to get the bowl of candy.
Speaker: And I'm like reenacting this right now. I can hear you turning. To get the bowl of candy. And as she's turning he says, trick or treat, give me your money or I'll shoot.
Speaker: So he says this in response to the smiling, sweet, elderly faces of Ethel and Marvin. Oh my goodness. I know. I read though on medium .com that Ethel kind of laughed a little, like, you know, thinking it's a joke because she's like, you know, Teresa had just left, maybe her granddaughter or a friend was playing a trick on them or, you know, someone from their family. That's a pretty cruel trick.
Speaker: I know. Yeah. But I'm like, I guess as little kids, maybe we would say like, stick them up. Give me all your money. You know, right? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I wonder if she thinks it's maybe something like that. So they have a gun. Yeah. And I don't know. So maybe they're thinking though, it's a play gun. Like you just said. Yeah. A ghost costume pillowcase with a toy gun. Yeah. Doesn't really go together.
Speaker: Yeah. And so I think was thinking along the same lines. She's like, you know, this pillowcase with the holes cut out and this gun kind of freaking me out. So she actually tries to reach out and pull off the pillowcase because she wants to see who's underneath there, like who this jokester is. Yeah. But the person actually grabbed like the end of the pillowcase and held it down tightly so she couldn't pull it off.
Speaker: So instead of panicking, she's like, I'm just gonna play along with this. So she turns around, gets the candy, but as she's turning, the trick -or -treater quickly moves inside the doorway and gets behind her. Oh no. So now the door's open, she's there, and this man is behind her. Yeah, you do not walk into people's houses.
Speaker: That's taken the stroke a little too far. Yeah. Then I'm sure she's like, okay, this is serious. Yes. And by the time she realized what was going on, that this wasn't a trick. This wasn't a fake gun. This isn't a trick or treater. He had the gun pointed at her. Oh my.
Speaker: So the trick -or -treater ordered the couple to the basement where they kept the safe. And I don't know, I didn't read anywhere where he specifically stated, take me to your basement, take me to the safe. But if there's a safe in there, I think we could deduce that's why he wanted to go there.
Speaker: And if the research said that he ordered the couple to the basement, then that would mean this is somebody who knows it's there versus if he says, give me your money. And she says, oh, it's in the basement. And she leads him there. Yeah, everything I read was along the line of ordered them to the basement. So this is someone who knows them.
Speaker: Yeah, because very few people knew that the couple had a safe in their basement. I actually read that almost everyone that knew would have been family or a very close family friend. Though, I mean, if a family member knows, then you could always, I mean, that's the thing about information, right? So it could be somebody who has
Speaker: coerced a family member into telling them. So I guess it could be a stranger, but it has to, like you said, it has to either be a family member or someone connected to a family member.
Speaker: Well, like I'm going to be honest and a lot of my family, especially my cousins listen to our podcast and they are going to 100 % agree with me when I say this, but there are times that I will not tell my mom things because if I tell my mom, then she'll tell my aunt who will tell my other aunt who will tell my other aunt and then like everybody know.
Speaker: Right, so maybe the fact that they thought they had this somewhat Secret safe really wasn't a secret right? Yeah, cuz you tell the one wrong person and yeah, and then everybody's yeah and Marvin thinks along the same lines He thinks that the intruder has to be somebody that they know he was a World War two army veteran look
Speaker: love who owned a carpet service business and yes the couple did have a safe in the basement but it's not like they were wealthy right he wasn't
Speaker: charting yachts across the Mediterranean Sea or anything. Right, right. They don't own an island. Right. The carpet company did fine, but it's not enough that, you know, they wouldn't have to work or their kids had like a trust fund or something. Okay. They wouldn't have had millions of dollars in this safe. So Marvin is sure, despite the gun being pointed at Ethel,
Speaker: that this is just a joke. Somebody's being cruel, this is just a joke. Okay, so they're still thinking like, okay, people are showing up, they know from looking at us that we're not the people to rob. Yeah, so I kind of get why he's thinking that right here. I read that they made the journey from their front door into the kitchen and several things I read use the word, the wordage they were escorted into the kitchen.
Speaker: So they didn't willingly go there. Right. And by this point, Marvin was overplaying this game and as a trio headed towards the basement. So I think you had to go into their kitchen to get to the basement door, which is typical of homes. That's pretty common. Yeah.
Speaker: Marvin refused to go a single step further. Oh no. I know. Marvin and Ethel had been shoved into the kitchen. They were headed towards the basement and he is done with this. Still thinking it was someone they knew and it wasn't a real robbery. Marvin actually grabbed for the gun. Oh no, cause he's thinking it's fake. And so he's, oh, Marvin.
Speaker: And I don't even know if he so much thought it was fake. I'm wondering if maybe he did think it was real. But again, someone's just being kind of cruel playing this joke on him and he's kind of over it, you know? Soundingly, the mass trick -or -treater reacted in the opposite of what both Marvin and Ethel had expected. So I think when Marvin, who at the time would not have been super old,
Speaker: Grabbed with a gun. I'm sure they expected if this was a real robbery that the person would flee Okay, they would just run away, you know, yeah, I Do not think the two thought the masked man would actually remove his ghostly cover But that is what happened so he didn't remove it and they laughed because they recognized who the man was You know, okay
Speaker: But as Marvin grabbed the gun, the mass trick -or -treater actually shot Marvin, hitting him in the throat.
Speaker: He does. Oh my gosh. He does. So Marvin reaches for the gun. He turns, shoots Marvin in the neck. So as you can imagine, the scene quickly becomes bloody because your carotid arteries are in your neck. So blood's going everywhere. And it's at that moment, the murderer tore his pillowcase mask off.
Speaker: maybe in disbelief, maybe in a lapse of judgment, dropped the pillowcase and ran out of the Brandland's home. Okay, so let me say a couple of things. First, this escalated quickly, which I get, this guy who's robbing them is like, I'm not being taken seriously, right? Especially when Marvin grabs for the gun.
Speaker: I understand his mentality of getting frantic, which is probably why he shot. What doesn't make any sense to me is the taking off of the pillowcase, because here's Ethel standing in the kitchen who has now seen his face. Have you seen Ray Stevens? Yes, I know. That's all I think when I said Ethel. I thought the same thing. Don't look, Ethel. Don't look, Ethel.
Speaker: No, they called him the Streak. If you do not know that song, Ray Steven. You need to go to YouTube. But now she knows what he looks like. And she actually can give a pretty good account of his looks. But that also tells me he's probably not someone they know because then she could call him by name.
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Speaker: go to zencaster .com forward slash pricing and use our code coffee and cases all one word. You'll get 30 % off your first three months of zencaster professional. We want you to have the same easy experience we do for all of our podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. Okay, so Alison, we are going to come back to
Speaker: This idea of her potentially knowing this person. Okay. Marvin is actually rushed to the hospital and taken back into the operating room, but he died on the operating table that same night. To think that he had survived the attack, but he just didn't survive.
Speaker: When interviewed, Teresa told reporters, quote, you go numb. And I had to take my grandmother back to the house to get her medicine. And you walk in and you're just in disbelief that it's happening till you see the blood. And then it's real. And this granddaughter, oh, and then she's taking her grandma back and she sees the scene.
Speaker: And still to this day, I mean, I can't imagine that, but still to this day, I get sad when I have to walk or drive by the place where my brother had his accident. It's different, I think, when a death is far away from home, but when it takes place in or around the home, it's something that you just can't escape. And so the house or the road or whatever,
Speaker: serves as a constant reminder of their death, like a thorn in your side and it keeps reopening the wound. And I cannot imagine how traumatizing it would be to walk in on that scene. Oh, I can't eat there. In an article covering the case on iowacultcases .org, it cited that months passed and the killer remained free. There was not a lot that happened.
Speaker: But it said that loneliness took its toll on Ethel, which is heartbreaking. And it said on Thanksgiving Day, she was surrounded by her family and she just completely broke down. Oh, poor thing.
Speaker: And you know, I really think true love affects certain people this way. And I don't know if it's maybe a generational thing. I don't want to be one of those people, you know, that say that, but I just feel that my aunt and uncle, for example, are in their seventies and they have a love like this. And I'm not trying to say that they love each other more than, you know, you love Rodney or I love Anthony or are more devoted to each other, but it's like they live for each other.
Speaker: She takes care of him, he takes care of her. Her entire world, since they got married, has been focused around him and her children. She only worked for a short amount of time. She took care of him, her household. And I really think that they would be like this. When one of them dies, I do not think the other would be far behind. It's like they just can't go on. And Ethel couldn't go on without Marvin. She actually died a few months after that Thanksgiving.
Speaker: Her other granddaughter Jan said, quote, she was eating and she just quit eating and she broke down and she cried and cried and cried. And you know, I'll never forget when they carried her out in her chair. We always say she died of a broken heart because she didn't want to be by herself. End quote. Oh my goodness. This case is so sad. Always telling Anthony he has to, that I get to die before him.
Speaker: Oh yeah, I wouldn't want to feel that grief. So now obviously we are on the hunt for a killer. Okay. But we have a description probably, right? Yes, we do. Because he drops his pillowcase ghost disguise and Ethel gets a really good look at him. She's able to tell police that he was between 16 and 20. Oh, so he's young. Around five feet, eight inches tall and had blondish hair and blue eyes.
Speaker: So I think this is just a very, like, anybody could be this person, you know? Right. But to this day, I read the family thinks they know who killed Marvin. Well, because again, it was probably somebody, I mean, it had to be somebody who knew where the
Speaker: the safe was. So linked somehow to the family. And according to medium .com, Ethel's description actually matched with the person the family thought had committed the crime. And I don't know how they came to this conclusion like it was this person other than an acquaintance of the family. So not
Speaker: the family, but an acquaintance had been bragging to people around town about what he had done. So I think that's how they piece it together. And they turned his name over to the police. And even though the description Ethel gave matched this man, they like the police didn't believe they had enough to make an arrest. But there was Ethel who says like, here is what he looked like.
Speaker: Yeah. And there has to be DNA on that pillowcase. There had to have been a hair stuck in there or something. Yeah, or spit something. Something.
Speaker: I also read that, Oh, we'll talk about the pillowcase. I also read that at the request of investigators, um, per this article on who TV that the name of this suspect has never been released still to this day. Hmm. Police did confirm that this individual is a prime suspect, but that there just wasn't enough evidence to make an arrest.
Speaker: Okay. I'm calling author him. They need to get involved in this. They need to test this DNA. And this was also on the who TV article. It said, quote, everybody that was on the department, everybody in the town wanted the case solved. And at the time, at the time it happened. This was according to assistant Fort Dodge police chief, Kevin Dodie. He said this in an October 2010 interview, 2010 years after this was 82. Yeah. 82 took place.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. Wow. He goes on to say, and we wanted to get it to the point where not only can we charge somebody, but you can take that case to trial and get a conviction and not leave anything to doubt, end quote. Okay. I mean, I get that, right? Like you want to wait until you don't want to jump the gun. You want to make sure it's not just circumstantial. You want to make sure you got something solid. But 2010? That's a long time. I know.
Speaker: maybe investigate, I'm sure, I'm not gonna say maybe, I'm sure, investigations have, or the way investigations are handled have grown, you know? Because obviously what we can do with DNA is substantially different now. Yeah, even in 2010, it would have been in 1982. But you're right, we do have
Speaker: DNA in this case, and if we can get a DNA match, then we will have something that will prove without a doubt who is guilty. Right.
Speaker: And thankfully the pillowcase was submitted for DNA testing. I read that it was sent in 2010 and a spokeswoman named Courtney Green said this about the DNA sample. Quote, I think they're hoping in the next 30 days they might have some information. Again, this is 2010. Then again, if it's part of an ongoing investigation, it could be confidential. So even though we may know the results, we may not be able to release the information. End quote.
Speaker: Well, I guess until they make the match with somebody. Right. But hopefully if the family is saying a name of this acquaintance who was bragging about it, then fingers crossed they could compare. Yes. And you know, remember the case we did on Patreon where that woman stalked that employee until she got the Pepsi can. Yeah. That was a good one. That's what I would be doing. If I thought I knew I would be stalking this person. Yeah, exactly. Until they drop something with DNA on it. Yeah.
Speaker: Sadly, though, the DNA testing at the time found that there wasn't enough DNA on the pillowcase to get really anything. Yeah. And that same WHO TV channel 13 report
Speaker: Jessica Lone told Channel 13 in a story that aired on December 30th, 2010, quote, technology has evolved. And today we are able to extract some information. We didn't get everything we wanted, but who knows what will happen in the next couple of years? End quote. Well, I know what's going to happen in the next couple of years. You're going to have a family.
Speaker: still waiting to find out what happened to Marvin in 1982. It's now 2022. And we still don't have answers, but at least they're thinking ahead and they're saying, you know what, we've got at least something. And even if it doesn't give us answers now, maybe it will one day. And let's talk about potentially who we think it could have been. I didn't see a lot of theories
Speaker: So I'm going to talk about two, if you think of any more, please feel free to add. But obviously it would be this family acquaintance. Right. That's the obvious one. Right. So remember that no one but family or close family friends knew about the safe that was in the basement. So in my mind, the killer has to be someone close to the family, close enough that they would accidentally let that slip. Right. Right.
Speaker: Yeah, because if they're saying get down to the basement, then they know. Yes. On a blog called the Marvin Brandland case, the author had this to say about the family acquaintance, quote, so the first thing that caught my attention in this case is that the killer only shot Marvin and not Ethel, which is a bit suspicious. Maybe the killer got scared after he shot Marvin and ran away, but why take off the mask?
Speaker: I believe that Marvin's killer left Ethel alive for one reason. My first thought is that what if he kept her alive so that she could give a statement of what he looks like? But then I also thought, but considering she knows what he looks like, why wouldn't he just kill her? I mean, he could have gotten, he might've gotten caught. And they go on to say,
Speaker: they did some research on killers and that they apparently found that sometimes people commit murders to try to give someone that like a sign they need help and so their theory is that perhaps this is a family acquaintance but they're doing this in some sick to like twisted way to let Ethel know they need help. No.
Speaker: That's what I said. No. Now, do I think it could be an acquaintance? Yes. I think knowing that detail, but I think it's not obviously family member because Ethel would have said, oh my gosh, you know, George came in and did this. So if she didn't know him and he's young, so
Speaker: I don't know. It could be somebody who like in this carpet business, maybe family worked for them and maybe they thought they had more money than what they did. Or I don't know, but I don't believe the reason that this online person gave. I don't, I don't, it does. It seems odd to me that they didn't kill Ethel, which tells me that I don't think that they meant to kill anybody.
Speaker: in this. I think they meant to go in and get money and leave and thought that they wouldn't put up a fight. And then when, I think when the gun went off and was it just one shot? That's a good question. I don't know. Especially if it was just one shot, then I'm thinking that it wasn't
Speaker: It was they didn't go in with that purpose with that intent. And then they so they didn't want to kill somebody else. And that's why but why they pulled the pillowcase off. I don't know. I think that it was a robbery gone bad. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And
Speaker: I think that's definitely not a theory. I think that's the motive for sure, is that it was a robbery gone bad. Whether it was a family acquaintance who would have known about the safe or someone else, I don't know. But I do think, like you said, I think this was an inexperienced person. And I'm wondering if the shot was maybe an accident. Because why would you purposely shoot someone in the throat? Right.
Speaker: And I guess theory two would be obviously it's a random person. So either it's a family acquaintance or it's a random person. And I don't think this is completely out of the realm of possibility. A lot of people who I think will be against this theory may ask why he only killed Marvin and left Ethel. And I wonder, like I said, if it's just their first major crime. And he intended it to be a robbery. But when Marvin tries to take the gun, he kind of freaks out and shoots.
Speaker: and runs. And I think in that moment of panic, he could have pulled like, oh my God, what did I just do? Yeah. Right. And that's why he pulls it off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could totally see that happening. And I know some people are saying, but Maggie, how did he know about the safe? Hear me out. I think a lot of people have safes in their home for guns, for paperwork, for birth certificates, for whatever.
Speaker: Could it have just been a wild guess? And he just assumed that they had a safe in his home or he said it and then they started like, oh crap, he knows about it. And he was like, oh, hot dang, I was right. Or maybe he didn't even say, take me to the safe in your basement. Maybe he just said, go to the safe. Give me the money. Yeah, just give me your money. Right, and then they start talking. Right, that's true. I don't know. What are your final thoughts?
Speaker: Yeah, I think this was a robbery. I think that the killing was not the primary intent. I think that was just to get money. And I'm just sad that it ended up with two deaths as a result.
Speaker: As the Halloween season approaches and we start to decorate for trick -or -treaters, I urge all of us to remember our own safety. While many of us still like to see the good in the world, sadly, not all the world is good. Where we picture the kid being young for as long as possible, he or she may see you or me as an easy victim. It's important that this spooky season we remember to protect the ones we love and protect ourselves.
Speaker: Be vigilant be safe and continue speaking Marvin's name Teresa told who TV quote for the longest time We didn't pursue anything because we knew in our stomachs in our gut who it was But there was fear and grandma always lived in fear But I know they would want it solved. They'd want us safe. We owe it to them
Speaker: Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail .com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
Speaker: Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
Speaker: It's love notes for Maggie and Alison. Yeah. Again this week, we have so many love notes to share. We want to shout out our love to the following people for leaving us messages and reaching out to us on social media. The Murder Police, Melissa Christie, Jerry Lynn Marsha, Laura, another Melissa, Heather, Kathy, Ted, Nancy, Melinda, Amy, Mackenzie, Gail, John, Lucio, Tyler, Jasmine, Taylor, Elaine,
Speaker: Kay and Rebecca, Cody Kelly, Kenzie Heather, Julie Jolene, Amy Eva, Amanda, Rhiannon, Mandy, Heidi, and Tiffany, who said she was watching Cold Justice, her favorite true crime show, and just about flipped when she recognized my voice on there. So love, love, love to all of you. Plus, we got some new written reviews this week.
Speaker: So Love is going out to our reviewer from Wednesday whose screen name I could not possibly pronounce because it's me, but they said, quote, love this show. They are so funny and relatable while still keeping the stories interesting. Thank you. Oh no, that was so sweet. And to our review from Friday from Jen Sings who wrote,
Speaker: quote, I've really enjoyed listening to these ladies thoroughly breaking down some very interesting cases. Thanks also to hashtag Bob Ruff Truth. Yay for featuring them on his hashtag true crime binge podcast. Looking forward to hearing many more episodes. Thanks ladies.
Speaker: Thank you. Yes, thank you. And we may as well say thank you again to Bob too for having us on a show. Now, if you are a listener and you run out of episodes to binge, you can always check out our Patreon where for only $5 a month, you can hear some solved cases, my possessed doll story, Maggie's mannequin story, the worst day of my life and many more episodes. So just head on over to patreon .com forward slash coffee and cases all one word.
Speaker: Plus, if you are a part of the $12 or $15 tiers for the months of October and November, and you've just got a few more days left to get on this train, people, then you will be getting a swag box shipped to you at the end of November. And it is so freaking cute. Oh my gosh. You will want arm pump to send these out. Yes. With that said, all of our love is going out to each and every one of you. Until next week, Slu Founds.
