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Extended Clip - Max Allegri Sacked: Did Juventus Handle This Badly? (Ep. 419)
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After Max Allegri was sacked by Juventus following his public meltdown after winning the Coppa Italia, Carlo Garganese and Nima Tavallaey discuss, debate and analyze if Cristiano Giuntoli and Juve handled this situation badly as well as what this says about the new Bianconeri management moving forward.
This is an extended clip from this weeks free Monday episode of The Italian Football Podcast which is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Google podcasts.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Italian Football Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast.
Why was Max Allegri sacked by Juventus?
00:00:05
Speaker
So before we discuss Juventus versus Bologna, which was a thrilling match, just a little discussion on Max Allegri because he was sacked on Friday while Nima was on his way to Milan. So Nima hasn't had his chance to have his say on this. I did do though a
00:00:25
Speaker
a short snap reaction on my phone on Friday of the evening where I gave just some initial thoughts really for this but I mean it's moved on since then now but I mean at the time I think there were two big talking points I just want to get your viewpoint
Critique of Juventus's handling of Allegri's dismissal
00:00:46
Speaker
on that. Number one was the way that it was handled by Juventus
00:00:53
Speaker
um even the most allegory out of people uh ranged from saying this wasn't the way to do things to it should have been done in a in a different way um so i want to get your first of all what's your viewpoint on that and secondly um where do you see this going from now it's gonna get really ugly isn't it never it's gonna get very ugly um because like i said last week um
Allegri's relationship with Agnelli and lack of support
00:01:23
Speaker
on Thursday after we, after the Copa Italia final, I said, look, you have to remember that Max Allegri is Andre Aniali's, one of his best friends. They're very close. They, you know, the legendary, you know, morning runs and breakfasts they had for all the years that Andre Aniali was in charge of Juva. We know that there is hardly any love lost between the Elkan wing and the Aniali wing of the family.
00:01:52
Speaker
So it's, you know, he doesn't really risk anything because his loyalty lies with Andrea Nieli. So there's that aspect of it as well. But it you would, you know, it would be ridiculous and incredibly disingenuous to sit here and pretend that this was not a this was well handled.
00:02:22
Speaker
uh by uva and the way that juntoli decides to take you know one of the first major decisions that he decides to take is to go to war with max alegri we're talking about someone who has won five scudetti five copitalia three supercopa two champions league finals that is that makes alegri by definition a uventus legendary coach
00:02:51
Speaker
And that he decides to go like this and starts talking about certain behaviors in that ridiculous statement. Certain behaviors are not acceptable. It's just on the one hand, it is very typical Juve because at Juve, you know, if they kick out Alessandro del Piero, they can unceremoniously kick out Max Allegri.
Juventus's feudalistic approach and disrespect towards Allegri
00:03:19
Speaker
Juve, Juve is the most important thing. And by that, you know, it's this kind of il padron, a chair, you know, this thing where I always talk about how in Italy, you know, psychologically, Italy is still a feudal country. It's still a feudalistic country. And that is something that we saw an example of again, but at the same time,
00:03:42
Speaker
It's very, very, it should never have come to this. It should never have become this infected. And the fact that it was, that it became this infected, that it became this toxic is also part on Juve. They should be, they are a club that usually doesn't allow for these things to happen. These things happen elsewhere, but not at Juve, but it did happen. And, and, and, and the fact that it did happen and that he exploded the way that he did,
00:04:12
Speaker
that, you know, it was, it was, you know, at the same time, it's Allegri, you have to respect him. And he was not respected. This was someone who was constantly for three years unprotected at Juve, which is very, very unlike, which is very, very not typical of Juve.
Media's role and Allegri's feelings of vulnerability
00:04:28
Speaker
And they're very good at controlling the narrative. And the fact that, again, the Tuto Sport director, the head boss at Tuto Sport, which is essentially Juve's paper, fancy,
00:04:40
Speaker
came out on the record and said all these things that he did, he would never have done that if Juve had not given the green light. And the fact that they gave the green light speaks volumes. And I think he was incredibly unworthy of of Allegri and his tenure at Juve. I think Juve kind of crossed the line here, this Juve crossed the line here that I don't think can be
00:05:06
Speaker
can be unwashed or it's a spot that will not out. And I think for as long as the Elkan and Juntoli era persists, this is something that will come back to hurt them politically, definitely, because Allegri is extremely well-liked in Italian football. He has very, very many, very, very powerful friends, not just in the media, but in Italian football.
00:05:35
Speaker
And this was not how they wanted it to end. What they wanted was for him to parade around in the last home game at the U of S stadium and say his goodbye to the fans. They wanted a worthy exit.
Political and media implications of Allegri's sacking
00:05:47
Speaker
They did not want this.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with quite a lot of that. I think it was very cold the way that they did it, and to deny him a kind of a goodbye as well, I think is bad. The only thing I can think of is maybe after everything that happened on the, after the Coppertalia final, forget the stuff with the Tutor Sport Director. I don't think that really played much into it, to be honest with you. I think what Juventus didn't like was, and we've had it confirmed now that, you know,
00:06:19
Speaker
He went against Jun Cili on the pitch, told him to go away. I mean, that's been confirmed now. So there's clearly, you know, we know that that relationship was, there was no relationship by the end and that they don't like to know whether they saw that there was going to be more of this in the last,
00:06:39
Speaker
two weeks of the season. And it was just no, that was not going to happen. And it was going to become a circus. No, no, no, that was not going to happen. That was that was a burst spur of the moment thing.
00:06:49
Speaker
by him and he, cause it was raw human emotion. There was nothing planned about that. That was completely him just being overwhelmed by that and basically, you know, saying, you know, damn you all. But. If that was, I mean, if that's the case, then I think it's cold, but I mean, we don't know that. But look, you can't do that. At the same time, you can't do that. No, no, we're not condoning what he did. I mean, obviously, you know, what he did, I don't think anyone's condoning what he did. That was wrong, but you know, but that does happen.
00:07:18
Speaker
But for me, no, no, but for me, the thing I I look at it is I think the mistake was happened earlier. I go to the root of the issue and the root of the issue is that ever since Juntoli took over.
00:07:32
Speaker
He's been alone, Allegri. He's not been protected. I mean, you can't really blame anyone. Well, I don't know if I disagree with that. After the previous... I don't know if I agree with that. Let me just finish. Let me just finish. I'm not talking about publicly. I'm talking about how Yuba operates. Yuba operates like the Mafia.
00:07:49
Speaker
They protect everyone who works at Juve, whether they like them or not. That's just how Juve has always worked. But since Juntoly took over, I'm not talking about the interim period before when the previous board resigned and disgraced after a SWAT team burst in. No, because that was unheard of. I'm talking about from the minute that Juntoly came in,
00:08:09
Speaker
the way it was evident that Jung Tully was going to get rid of Allegri. He was a dead man walking throughout all of this. All the rumors about him extending Allegri was nonsense and I said so on this part at the time. There's no chance of that happening. And that in of itself is not how it works at UVA. You are when you work there as the head coach from the minute you're there to the very end.
00:08:31
Speaker
you are protected, and he wasn't. He was not protected. I disagree about the protection from him completely. He was not protected by the club. I disagree with that. I think if you look at the media, he was very protected, very protected. Even by Tutor Sport, the criticism against Allegri in the Italian media was virtually non-existent, considering Juventus have set negative record off the negative record
00:08:51
Speaker
No, there was. It was not non-existent. It was very, very... It wasn't. I'm sorry. I completely disagree with that. Even 2-2 sport a little bit, but I'm sorry. It was, you know, until recently where it's becoming possible not to criticise a legroom because of the results.
00:09:07
Speaker
But most of these three years, and even since Junstly come, he's been so protected. And that's something that's been alluded to. I hate to use Antonio Cassano. That's one of the only things Cassano has ever said. You said yourself, Allegri has lots of friends within the media.
00:09:38
Speaker
he's been very protected in the media and publicly, publicly, publicly, publicly, let me finish, let me finish, publicly Junzli has always, has always defended. What happens behind closed doors is another matter, yes, I'm sure, I'm sure, behind closed doors, behind closed doors, he's obviously not... That's just not true, Carlo, though, because I've seen how Italian media have covered you, where there's different ways of going, you can go, you can do phare polemica to his face and throw shit at him, but I have watched
00:09:47
Speaker
He has lots of friends in the media.
00:10:08
Speaker
how Ravanelli, how Del Piero, how all of these JUVA icons have sat in sport media set in Sky Sport ever since Juntoli took over and have ripped shred by shred Juventus under Allegri for how they play it in the pitch. That would never happen
00:10:25
Speaker
If he was protected by the club, it would never exist in a million years. The Juventus icons will go out on TV and talk about how abysmal you are. I don't think Ravinelli and Del Piero have ever watched them. I have watched them week after week after week talk about how poor you replay, how poor they are. That's not an opinion. That is an empirical fact. There are different ways that you can criticize.
00:10:50
Speaker
Well, of course they're going to say that they're not playing well because you cannot say that. No, not playing well. Not playing well. They're actually ripping Allegri to shreds. Not Allegri. Again, listen to what I'm saying, the nuances in what I'm saying. In Italy, things sometimes, how you say and what you say, also what you do not say is just as important. They never criticized him by name. They never went against him when he was there doing interviews.
00:11:14
Speaker
But what they did do was rip Juventus, how they played under Allegri, especially since Giuntoli took over, limb by limb. Okay. That to me is very extraordinary. And that is what has pissed him off. That would never have happened in a normal situation.
Club and media dynamics post Juntoli's takeover
00:11:33
Speaker
It would never have happened. Yeah, I'm sorry. I disagree with that. I don't think I don't think that the football politics of Italian football dictate, especially at a club. I don't think that.
00:11:43
Speaker
I don't think that happened at all. I don't think it happened at all. And I think it's the other way around. But what I do think and what I agree with is I think he feels within the club that they haven't been open and honest with him. And that's what's come out in the last few days as well, that he feels that they weren't open. In fact, that's actually said that they've said publicly that they've backed him.
00:12:05
Speaker
like Jinsley, what he said, he's our coach, blah, blah, blah. Jinsley even said a few months ago, they were planning for the future with him publicly, but privately, he's been given no assurances over his future, but that's just natural. I mean, of course it's natural. I mean, it's obvious. It's obvious from the day Jinsley took over that these two people are completely different people. Jinsley and Lake, we work in completely different ways. We've seen that.
00:12:32
Speaker
That's fair enough. So I mean that's to be expected and this is what happens whenever. There's nothing unusual with that. No, no, but this is what's unusual. Again, if you do not have at U of A that kind of thing where throughout
00:12:50
Speaker
You know, historically you don't, you have them maybe criticized for one game. You have been criticized over today was not, they had a difficult game, but you do not have former club legends at that club. Come out and say that you were playing today, played incredibly poor. They didn't do this. They didn't do that. And then when Allegry comes on, they don't ask him about it. Like this is so demonstratively where they are showing respect to the club, but they are not
00:13:18
Speaker
You know, but they're making their points to him. They, he was not critically attacked by, that's not what I'm saying. Listen again to the nuance that I'm making. I'm saying the way that you are criticized is different to the way that other clubs are. And when you historically in Italy, and when you have club icons at these big TV stations, talk about you or the way that they have says juntily took over when the results have been bad. That has never happened before.
00:13:42
Speaker
not in this way. And the fact that is part of the things that he's pissed off about, that he feels he's not been protected at you, but that's not how it works. And that he is 100% right in. Now, the way that he handled that post-copitalia, where he threatened to rip off people's ears and punch them in the face and you, you effing a-hole, you go away. And that's not how you handle it.
00:14:04
Speaker
But the frustration was there and it was built up through this entire year, since Giuntoli took over, because Giuntoli made it absolutely clear from day one, he was not going to continue with Allegri. He was not going to protect him. And I said so at the time that I don't care what they talk about planning with the future. I don't care what he says publicly. I don't believe that he will continue past this season. And I think it was obvious. And that's what happened. And that to me was where the mistake or the
00:14:29
Speaker
abnormal behavior. I think I think what I think what you've done wrong is they should have just let him see out the season and they should have given him the chance to at least you know, help parade the trophy and say goodbye to the to like to the ultras, for example, who absolutely worship his feet, not that they the ultras deserve anything like despise them. But but you know, at least give him the chance to go out with some dignity, whatever you think of him.
00:14:52
Speaker
But it's not him going out with dignity. It's a little bit like it's also the optics of it. Like you would end the season on a positive note. Yes, everything. I agree. I agree with you. That is where I think that the Juventus, you know, and I think you said that Allegri acted hastily. I think maybe Juventus acted hastily as
Was Allegri's continued tenure at Juventus surprising?
00:15:09
Speaker
well. Why did they have to act so soon? Like it was already clear. I knew by Thursday morning. They had to do that. I knew by Thursday morning. Their hands were forced.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah, but their hands were forced. I mean, when he publicly, the way that he goes against the club directors and that way that he did and told people. And that's what I think was the key thing. That's what I don't think it was. I don't think it was the two to sport. I don't think it was the two to sport thing. I think it was the directors. No, I don't think it was the two to sporting. And I didn't say that it was the two to sporting. I use that as an example of.
00:15:37
Speaker
showing that the fact that it was leaked was because Juventus wanted it to be leaked. If Juventus did not want it to be leaked, nobody would have found out about it. Not in the way that the actual director goes out and writes it and says it publicly. This happened, he told me this. I haven't said that though, I have to give the other side. While I've said it, while I think Juventus should have done this differently and he should have been able to finish the season, I do also think that Allegri
00:16:03
Speaker
He can't complain too much because, as I said on my post-match, he's very, very lucky to have still been Juventus coach now. If he was any other coach, he would have been sacked long ago. And so for him to get to this stage and then feel bitter about not getting another season or bitter for getting sacked, yes, the way that it happened was wrong. It should have been done in a different way. But he's lucky to have got here.