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E119: Anita Knutson
2.4k Plays4 years ago
Anita Knutson had just finished her first year as an elementary education major at Minot State University. She was looking forward to summer and spending more time with her family. So, when her family called and called her with no answer, they knew something was wrong. What actually happened was everyone’s worst nightmare.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuth Hounds, Maggie and I have exciting news to share. We have our first sponsor. Yep, that's right. We do. But our success depends on you guys. So if it sounds like your cup of tea or rather your cup of wine, please consider giving it a try. We'll tell you more about it in the middle of the episode. So be listening for it.
True Crime Podcast Introductions
00:00:29
Speaker
Each week you guys know that Allison and I like to try to introduce you to new podcasts that we think you'll enjoy since we know that you share our true crime obsession. Yes. And this week, the podcast, just like last week, is coming to you straight from the UK. So if you love Accented Voices giving you your weekly dose of true crime. Just a very different accent from ours.
00:00:57
Speaker
100%. His is so much better. And you will love Persons Unknown. Here's a bit about the show from the host John Dobson himself. Persons Unknown is a true crime podcast dedicated to unsolved murders and disappearances. My name is John. I'm based in Wales and cover cases from Wales, the rest of the UK and the wider world.
00:01:25
Speaker
Each episode tells the story of a cold case, from the original timeline right through to recent developments. The content is based on thorough research, and all the evidence is presented in a clear and engaging way. There's no banter but a respectful narration of what happened and any theories. A new episode is released every other Monday, with occasional bonus episodes. There are already plenty of episodes to binge,
00:01:55
Speaker
Find persons unknown wherever you listen to podcasts.
FBI Insights on Crime Investigations
00:02:00
Speaker
Former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt said in a February 21st, 2006 article for NBC News, quote, motive is important because without an understanding of why people commit certain crimes in the way they do, we're left to begin at square one on every investigation, something we simply don't have the time or the resources to do, end quote.
00:02:27
Speaker
Motive can help narrow down the search area for clues. It can narrow down a list of suspects. It can help put everything about a crime into a more understandable and workable framework. It, at minimum, helps law enforcement know where to start.
00:02:45
Speaker
In a way, figuring out the motive of a crime can be like putting together all of the edge pieces of a puzzle. You don't know how all the pieces fit together yet, nor what the final picture will look like, but you have something of a guide. So when we have cases for which there's no clear motive, everyone is a suspect and nothing can be ruled out.
00:03:11
Speaker
When, in addition to no clear motive, that crime is committed against someone who had no obvious enemies, who seemed adored by all who knew her, her murder becomes even more of a conundrum. But someone out there holds the key. Someone knows the why, because that someone has never been identified. This is the case.
00:03:41
Speaker
of Anita Knudsen.
Mission of Coffee and Cases Podcast
00:04:18
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:37
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:04:55
Speaker
Allison, I'm going to be real honest, that intro sounded awfully familiar to the description of Eddie Brown in my case last week. So I don't know that I'm looking forward to this episode very much. I know. As soon as I was writing it, I was like, oh my gosh, this is just like last week. It's like deja vu. Yeah.
00:05:18
Speaker
I don't know that I'm looking forward to it, but what I am looking forward to is Patreon shoutouts. Yes. And you know what I was thinking about this week? I was thinking that instead of calling our Patreon supporters patrons, because, you know, I mean, that's technically what they're called. I think that we should call them partners in crime.
00:05:40
Speaker
Okay, I can get behind that. Yeah, cuz like we get together each week to discuss true crime and they are our partners Yeah, just not in the illegal kind of way. Yes in a yeah, we're not doing anything illegal here But yeah in a legal kind of way. They are our partners in crime
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think it has a good ring to it. So I think we should give a shout out to our partners in crime. Okay, so first up, we want to give a shout out to Sean Hayes, who wrote, quote, I've been listening since this summer and just recently caught up. I don't know how I'm going to deal with waiting for the episodes each week now, but I think Patreon will help with that end quote.
00:06:25
Speaker
Well, Sean, we hope you've been putting those coping skills to the test and we thank you for listening to all of our episodes. Yes. I'd love to hear actually which episode is your favorite. Me too. I mean, I love hearing from all of our listeners. I really hope that you also liked our first full length episode of A Solved Case that we put on Patreon too.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yes, now that we can actually get the audio to work. Oh my gosh, as a video, but still. You know, it is what it is. I know. We're working on it. We're working on it. That's right. Still. Our second shout out goes to Deborah. She says, I enjoy listening and recently found your podcast and have binged all the episodes. Thankful that you can tell their stories and not use vulgarity. You two are so sweet. Oh.
00:07:16
Speaker
And we've got another binger. I love it.
00:07:20
Speaker
And thank you for that sweet comment. Our final shout out goes to Natalie Frazier. Natalie said, quote, loving the CNC Patreon. Oh, CNC! I know. She said, keep up the great work, ladies. Thank you, Natalie. And we are happy to have you as a, you know what? We have a new, she's helped us come up with a new phrase now. CNC, partner in crime.
00:07:49
Speaker
I think you just like saying partner and crime. Yeah. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. But Sleuthounds, if you would like to get immediate access to bonus content, learn a little bit more about Allison and me and hear your name read on our show, be sure to subscribe to the Patreon that we've set up for you guys at patreon.com slash coffee and cases podcast.
Support and Community Engagement
00:08:11
Speaker
All one word with Ann spelled out.
00:08:14
Speaker
And if you are already one of our Patreon members or partners in crime, but you haven't filled out the shout out form, don't forget to do so because we want to announce your name, your nickname, your anonymous comment to celebrate you.
00:08:29
Speaker
Of course, you can support us in other ways as well by writing us a review on Facebook or on your favorite podcasting app. A couple of you have done that in the past week. But only if they're positive. If you don't like to get here, just keep scrolling. Yeah, just turn us off. Just move on.
00:08:47
Speaker
You can also support us by interacting with us on social media because we love that you guys, whether it's like a comment that you really liked an episode or if you are suggesting our show and one of those Facebook groups that you're in, it makes us so happy. And I just want to say a big thank you to those of you who have recently done that.
00:09:12
Speaker
And Allison mentioned something to me about having a very special shout out. I do indeed have one. This special shout out also includes a call to action. This shout out, yes, goes to one of our beloved listeners, Brandy Alcorn, who runs a successful hand poured soy wax candle business in Georgia.
00:09:40
Speaker
When she was listening to the Jeremy Bright episode, she was moved to try to figure out a way to help the families of the victims of the cases we covered by keeping people talking about those cases.
00:09:54
Speaker
And y'all, she came up with the most amazing idea. She linked some of her cases with scents related to the cases, like where possible. So like in the Jeremy Bright case, remember he disappeared from a carnival. So she made the Jeremy Bright candle and cotton candy scent. And the details about his disappearance are on the label, just waiting for someone to ask you about the case so you can help continue to spread the word.
00:10:22
Speaker
Right. And right now she has the Jeremy Bright candle that Maggie just told you about, a Cindy James candle, and a coffee and cases podcast candle that's coffee scented, of course.
00:10:37
Speaker
And for each of those candles, so Brandi has kindly said that she'll donate a portion of those proceeds to the podcast so we can keep getting these lesser known cases out there. So if you're needing a new candle and who isn't, because it's nothing better than a new candle when you play at a clean house, or you just want to support us and the mission that we're all on,
00:11:00
Speaker
please go to Brandi's website at flickerflamecandle.store and that's candle singular so no yes right or you can reach out to Brandi to find out all the details and ordering information by emailing her at flickeringf
00:11:19
Speaker
Candles, this time with an S, at gmail.com or calling her at 470-304-6228. So you can support a small business, you can support the podcast, and you get an amazing candle all at the same time. So it's a win all the way around. It's like win, win, win, win, win, win, win. Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
Okay Maggie, let's get into the episode. Okay, let's go.
The Life and Ambitions of Anita Knudsen
00:11:52
Speaker
Anita Knudsen, her siblings and her parents had the kind of relationship where they would call each other nearly every day. They were constantly visiting one another and catching up. Like every single article described them as tight knit, which is wonderful.
00:12:12
Speaker
It is and like you guys know, we're big family people and I love that.
00:12:19
Speaker
And you got your mama with you right now. My mom is with me right now. She's downstairs in my basement because she's afraid to make any noises. But we've planned out like movies that we're gonna watch and things we're gonna bake. So I'm pretty excited. Oh, that's super exciting. So the Knudsen family, like ours, was very close. And Anita's father, Gordon, who was once the mayor of Butte, North Dakota. We're in North Dakota this week.
00:12:46
Speaker
And her mother, Sharon, who is the owner of a restaurant and grocery store, had decided after their children were grown to grow their own family even more by adopting Anita and then adopting Daniel and Anna as well. Wow. Yep. So while both Daniel and Anna looked up to older sister, Anita,
00:13:12
Speaker
Anna herself almost idolized her older sister because Anita was three years older than Anna. And I think that age difference, there's that like,
00:13:27
Speaker
It's like everything you want to be is your older sibling. Anna told the Daily Beast, quote, we were really close. When we were really little, we always had matching outfits, which was really fun. Every single thing my sister did, I wanted to do it, end quote. That's precious. I know. Yes. But sister Anna wasn't the only one who looked up to Anita. So did nearly everyone else.
00:13:56
Speaker
If anyone who knew Anita were asked to describe her, similar adjectives were used. Full of joy, responsible, kind, beaming, magnetic, charismatic, social, welcoming, driven, and beautiful. So how old is Anita? She is 18 in this episode.
00:14:21
Speaker
And because of her personality, it made sense to everyone when Anita decided that she wanted to become an elementary school teacher. Yes, charismatic, kind, responsible, like all of those things.
00:14:37
Speaker
And given her closeness to her family, it made equal sense that she wanted to find a college that wasn't too far from home. I feel that. Yep. So Anita settled on Minot State University and promptly began the coursework that she needed to major in education.
00:14:58
Speaker
Well, Alison, I'm just glad that you're doing this episode because all of these names... I would just be... Adelos. Between us, I'm so glad that we have Google. Yeah. Because many of the names I would have mispronounced had I not watched videos. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm looking for, like, local newscasts. So they know how to... Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:27
Speaker
Anita's first year at school had been nearly everything she had dreamed. She did well in her classes, as literally everyone knew that she would.
00:15:39
Speaker
She made lots of friends. She enjoyed hanging out with them, occasionally going out for a night on the town, usually going dancing, which again... I feel like all people do that in college at some point. Oh, yeah. I was going to say, that's just like nearly every other young college student. And that's not just in the US. Like globally, college students go out to dance. We like dance. They like dancing. Yeah.
00:16:04
Speaker
But Anita knew the balance of work and play very well. So at the same time that she did well in her classes and she enjoyed her spare time with her friends, she didn't have a whole lot of spare time. When she wasn't in the class, you would find her at one or the other of the two part-time jobs that she held while trying to support herself during school. Yeah. She worked part-time at both a clothing store in the mall and at a local hotel, the Fairfield Inn.
00:16:33
Speaker
where she would help cleaning staff to clean the rooms and things like that. Wow. Busy lady. Yeah. Like I said, responsible. Now you know why everybody's like, she's responsible, you know? And when she wasn't at work,
00:16:47
Speaker
She's very likely to be found hanging out with her siblings, because remember, she didn't go to school too far from home. In fact, according to an article by Pilar Melendez for The Daily Beast that was published on January 14th, 2022, so just a few weeks ago, Anna stated, quote, where my brother and I went to high school was about 30 minutes from my not. So we went multiple times a week, end quote.
00:17:15
Speaker
So I mean, they're literally only 30 minutes away. Yeah, and they're saying close together, visiting. I like it. The only thing that hadn't been ideal was Anita's relationship with her roommate.
Anita's Troubling Roommate Experiences
00:17:31
Speaker
Oh, and that can be tough. It can be and Anita was living in an off campus apartment. So it's not like she could just be like, can you find me another roommate, you know, and move somewhere else on campus. She's living off campus with this roommate. According to Anita's mom, the two had not been getting along for a bit.
00:17:54
Speaker
Anita's mom Sharon reported that the roommate had sent Anita, this is what she said Anita told her, was that the roommate had sent Anita threatening texts and that their arguments had even gotten physical at least once.
00:18:13
Speaker
So Sharon alleged that Anita had told her about one physical altercation in which Anita had her foot slammed in a door. Yeah, Sharon even stated, and this was per an article with True Crime Daily, that Anita was scared of her roommate and had actually planned on moving out. Yeah, I want her to go back home.
00:18:36
Speaker
I mean, yeah, she's close, but I will say it is hard though. It's not all the college experience. Yeah. And even like, I remember in college, like when I would go home for the summer or even like spring break, like it's just weird to revert back to like telling your parents like, Oh, I'm like, I'm gonna go hang out with my friends. I'm like, what time will you be back? And I'm like, I don't know. Whenever, whenever. Yeah.
00:19:06
Speaker
So the other issue that Anita told her mom about with the roommate was that her roommate would often have guys over and then would like before the guys left.
00:19:20
Speaker
So like the roommate would leave and then these random guys are like can roam freely through the apartment and you know create awkward situations Yeah, you know walks out and there's like some random person there that happened to one of my good friends in college her roommate Would sneak boys into their room and she would like go do whatever and like my friend would come out of from the shower And there would just be a random boy just like sitting in their dorm room. Yeah, that's not awkward. Yeah. Yeah
00:19:50
Speaker
But according to one source, Anita and her roommate had talked through some of their issues and things were going better. Okay. Plus, now this was the beginning of June, the semester was over. So Anita was looking forward to summer break. Same, Anita. I know. We feel you. Yeah. On Friday, June 1st, 2007,
00:20:17
Speaker
Anita spoke with her mom Sharon on the phone. She had been over at a friend's house and she was about to head back to her apartment at 2420 4th Street Northwest in Minot, North Dakota. It was nighttime. Anita had parked her car just a few feet away from her apartment, had dropped off a rent check,
00:20:40
Speaker
in the night drop box and went inside. So again, responsible, paying a rent. It's the first, that's when it's due, right? Yeah. So drops it in the night box, goes inside the apartment.
00:20:54
Speaker
The weekend that followed, so remember that's on a Friday, so the Saturday Sunday, Anita's brother Daniel had a baseball tournament in Bismarck, North Dakota, which is about two hours away from Minot. So instead of being the normal only 30 minutes away, now the family's about two hours away.
00:21:15
Speaker
Okay. Sharon and Gordon tried to call Anita on Saturday, but those calls went unanswered. Which I feel like would be strange because like if I miss a call from like my mom, I call her back as soon as I see that I've missed it. Exactly. And that's what Anita would do too. So they're like, this is odd because either she answers or she calls back immediately, but she didn't.
00:21:41
Speaker
Additionally, Anita also did not show up for her shift at the Fairfield Inn. Oh, something is wrong because she's responsible. She would be there. Yeah, this is extremely out of character for Anita.
00:21:57
Speaker
calls made to Anita on Sunday, too, also went unanswered with no return call made. Somebody needs to go check on her. Well, and they did. When the weekend ended and Monday, June 4th, 2007 rolled around and still nobody had heard from Anita, Sharon, Anita's mom, asked Gordon, Anita's dad, to make the drive to Minot to check on her, which he happily agreed to do because they were worried.
Discovery of Anita's Tragic Death
00:22:26
Speaker
So they're back home now from that baseball tournament. So Gordon's like, yes, I will go check on her. Side note, I love the name Gordon. I don't know why. I just feel like his name is cool. Yeah, it's old fashioned. I like it.
00:22:41
Speaker
While Anita's siblings knew that they hadn't heard from Anita, the Knutson's on that Monday had actually dropped 15 year old Anna off at a friend's house with only Gordon going to check on Anita. And I feel like that detail alone, I think shows that Sharon and Gordon at this point had done a really good job at hiding their growing concern. Oh, yeah. And Daniel, like they don't want them to start freaking out.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah. Cause then they would like want to go and traumatizing and all that stuff. Yeah. Everyone would have insisted on going with him. When Gordon arrived at Anita's off campus apartment, he saw Anita's car parked just feet from her apartment. Oh, good. Yeah. I'm sure he's like, okay, well that's a relief, right? There's her car. She's obviously in there, but he knocks on the door. No answer. He knocks again. No answer.
00:23:39
Speaker
He banged on the door. No answer. He banged on the door and yelled out Anita's name. No answer. So no one's home, not even the roommate? No. And his worry at this point is growing. Like what is going on? Clearly she's at home because her car is right here. So he turns like jiggling the doorknob and realizes it's locked. Oh, I'd be besting the door down.
00:24:20
Speaker
Oh, Maggie. Maggie's not a violent person, but you might think so based on her comments. But I really know it. When Gordon finally found the property manager, he said, Hey, you need to let me into Anita's apartment. And at first the property manager was hesitant. Like she's not supposed to let people in who aren't on the lease. And she could get in big trouble if she did.
00:24:34
Speaker
Well, what Gordon Knutson did is he went to find the property manager. Oh, that's more reasonable.
00:24:42
Speaker
And I bet that dad's like, you're going to get in big trouble if you don't open the store. You're about to catch these hands. That's exactly what he, well, he didn't say you're about to catch these hands, but he did like a worried dad. He was persistent. He was persuasive. He said, you know, you'll be in bigger trouble if you don't let me in. And he kind of said it that way. During that conversation, the properties maintenance man, who was actually the property manager's boyfriend,
00:25:09
Speaker
interrupted to say that he noticed something odd about a window leading into Anita's apartment. The screen had been cut and was found in the yard. That was according to True Crime Daily's article from March 1st, 2016. And though I only read this in one article,
00:25:34
Speaker
that shards of glass were on the ground, like from the window having been broken. And the one article I read that in said that that was a detail that was reported to the Bismarck Tribune by another Minot State University student, Matt Murphy, who also lived in the apartment complex. So Alison, I know that you and Rodney manage rental properties. Yes. So I feel like if you saw
00:26:02
Speaker
like shards of glass on the ground and like a cut screen that it would be checked out quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Like my first inclination would be to think about a break in. Yeah, me too. So when the maintenance man points this out, the three of them, the maintenance man, the property manager and Gordon run to the window.
00:26:30
Speaker
According to True Crime Daily, Gordon saw Anita through the window lying face down on her bed covered in a robe. Again, why would they not have checked before now? All you had to do was look in the window. I thought it was like a second story thing and it was hard to look in her window. Nope.
00:26:54
Speaker
Okay. And when he saw her, the mattress and the floor underneath her bed were soaked in blood. Oh my God. Yeah. Yelling to Anita through the window evoked no response. And that same True Crime Daily article reported that the bed was actually close enough to the window that Gordon could reach in to touch Anita.
00:27:19
Speaker
He stated in that article, quote, I walked over and the window was open. I'm going to come back to that comment in a second. I walked over and the window was open and I touched her head and I said, you get that door open right now. End quote. Because when he had touched Anita's head, she was cold. Oh God, that gave me chills. Okay.
00:27:43
Speaker
So now, of course, the property manager agrees to unlock the apartment. And Gordon ran into Anita's room, but any effort to save her Maggie was too late. In addition to calling the police, Gordon Knudsen now also had to call his wife Sharon, who, remember, had already been worried to let her know that their worst fears that something had happened to Anita were true.
00:28:13
Speaker
But I don't think in that situation that like when you're going to check on her, I don't even, I would venture to say that even your worst fears don't normally go as far as what Gordon saw. Like I feel like normally you'd be like, oh my gosh, maybe she's sick, maybe she broke a leg and can't reach the phone. Or even like maybe she was abducted. Yeah, that's what I was about to say.
00:28:42
Speaker
Yeah but I don't think you ever let your mind go to murder. To murder.
00:28:47
Speaker
Gordon then called Anna to let her know that Daniel, her brother, would be picking her up. And he said, quote, don't ask any questions, just go home. End quote. Well, listen, as a kid from a family that has had way too much death to deal with, I knew if my mommy wasn't the one that picked me up from the bus stop,
00:29:14
Speaker
Or if I got checked out from school early, somebody died. Yeah, you know. And that comment stuck with Anna. When Daniel picked Anna up, it was clear that he had been crying. So Anna knew something was wrong. Yeah, then she really knows. In that same article in The Daily Beast by Pilar Melendez, Anna recalled that moment. She said of Daniel crying, quote,
00:29:43
Speaker
It was not a super normal thing for my brother to do and he wouldn't tell me anything. So I just started naming people like, is it mom? Is it our aunt Karen or uncle Joe? Is it Anita? And then he started crying and kind of looked at me and said, she's dead. I just remember the whole car ride. We sat in silence. It was about a 30 minute ride home, end quote. Wow.
00:30:12
Speaker
And sitting there in that silence, Anna told NBC News on April 17th, 2015, quote, it hit me that my sister was gone, like gone, gone. I was only 15 years old and I was just struggling to comprehend the magnitude of her loss, end quote. This is gonna make me cry. This is so sad.
00:30:38
Speaker
I know, like having to deal with that. And that is something completely unexpected. And it's also Anna's comment, like I said before, that told me that the Knutson's had tried their best to shield Daniel and Anna from their worry.
00:30:56
Speaker
You know, because even the fact that Anna gives a list of potential people, right, when she's guessing which family member something may have happened to, shows you that Gordon and Sharon had really shielded them the best that they could. Yeah, because Anita wasn't the first place her mind went. Right. Meanwhile, at Anita's apartment, the Minot Police Department responded immediately to the crime scene, and they noticed several
00:31:26
Speaker
interesting details. First, the majority of the apartment was in normal order. It was clean, not disheveled, and it didn't appear that anything of value had been taken. So like robbery doesn't seem to be the motive. Could we tell if Anita's roommate had been home? I'm going to get to the roommate. Okay. Okay.
00:31:55
Speaker
The only room where there was evidence of the crime that had taken place,
Investigation and Crime Scene Analysis
00:32:03
Speaker
kind of. There's one detail where there's two conflicting commentaries about, but I'll get to that. But the majority of the evidence was in Anita's bedroom alone. As I mentioned before, the screen had been cut and
00:32:22
Speaker
Potentially the window broken. There was the one comment that was made that it was broken. Her dad said the window was open. But the window was right beside Anita's bed. But there was something that stood out to law enforcement concerning the window.
00:32:46
Speaker
Maggie, I don't know if I've ever told you this, but when I was in my gifted and talented class in eighth grade, I remember we did this project where we were given fake money and we had to invest in the stock market.
00:32:58
Speaker
But when you talk to the super wealthy, it seems like they all understand how it works. They do invest in things such as stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. But the problem actually is that all of those things you just mentioned, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, they are vulnerable to the same market forces. But what if I told you,
00:33:22
Speaker
that you could invest in something much less volatile that continuously outpaces inflation and investing can be something that we can all do. Like it's not just for the super wealthy anymore, especially
00:33:41
Speaker
with Venovest. Investment in wine has outperformed the global equities market for the past 30 years with a 10.6% annualized return. And even if you don't understand the language of stocks and bonds, I think we all understand the language of additional money and that high percentage coming in.
00:34:07
Speaker
And if you go to zen.ai forward slash coffee and cases pod, all one word, you will receive two months of fee free investing. So be sure to mention that coffee and cases podcast is helping you save on two months of management fees.
00:34:33
Speaker
So here's what stood out to law enforcement. Okay, so first let me go back to the comments that I only saw mentioned in one source about the broken glass on the ground. Again, that comment was made to a newspaper by someone else from the apartment complex. But like I said, none of the other sources that I read mentioned anywhere broken glass. And so
00:35:03
Speaker
Either the window had to have been open, as Gordon Knudsen said, or it had to have been broken. Right, because he touched her right through the window. Yes. But many articles, like I just said, didn't mention the window either way. And I feel like, OK, let's assume that it had been broken. I feel like that's a detail that would have been mentioned. Yeah, because I feel like it changes the way you view the case.
00:35:32
Speaker
Yeah, and if it had been broken, do you remember the detail about where I told you the glass was from the window?
00:35:40
Speaker
Oh, if it happened broken, how would it be on the grass outside of her window? Right. Because the glass would be in her room. And nothing that I read, like no articles I read gave a detail that there were any glass shards that were inside the apartment, like on Anita or on her bed. So either the window was broken by someone inside, if it was broken, or the window were just open.
00:36:10
Speaker
But I'm gonna go back either way, whether there are glass shards or the window is open. I feel like the maintenance man should have worried a little bit more when he found a slashed screen from an open window. Right, and again, it's not like he would have had to get a ladder to check what's going on.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, dude can walk out her window. Yeah, and her dad if her dad can just look in and see Anita and see the blood soaked mattress Then so could this guy? Right and initially you're gonna think seeing screen on the ground someone broke into this house Yeah, I mean that's what I would think So here's what we know of the crime scene
00:37:01
Speaker
Anita herself had been stabbed at least twice in her chest. One article I read, which was a petition for justice in Anita's case, stated that Anita's fingernails had been broken in her attempt to fend off her attacker, but most of the other articles I read stated that Anita did not have defensive wounds. So what would that tell you? Which makes me think it would be somebody she knew.
00:37:30
Speaker
I actually tried reaching out to the in loving memory of Anita Knutson Facebook page. And I got lots of like support as in likes and hearts and things like that, but I didn't get any response back. I reached out to a family member as well, but I didn't get a response back yet. And I do want to say I understand
00:37:59
Speaker
even if they did have plenty of time to see it and not responding because there's lots of times as much as these families of the victims want to keep the story of their child or their sibling or parent or their loved one out there. It's an extremely tough situation to feel like you're having to relive those details over and over again. Yeah.
00:38:27
Speaker
And even the family members that we do talk to on the show mention how hard that is. So I completely understand. If they just can't, like mentally. Right. I also reached out to the Minot Police Department Chief, John Klug.
00:38:46
Speaker
to try to find out, you know, some of the answers to the questions that I had about the case. And he responded almost immediately to my request for an interview. However, due to scheduling conflicts, we were unable to make that interview happen. Well, maybe we could do like an update or something. Yeah, like a follow up. Yeah. So Maggie and Sleuthhounds, I will do my best to present the information that I have conflicting details and all. All right. So as I mentioned before, Anita was found face down.
00:39:16
Speaker
But her stab wounds were in her chest, which is odd. Right, so she fell or was placed there.
00:39:25
Speaker
Yes, those are the two possibilities. Yeah, she either fell that way or maybe she had been turned over so the stab wounds aren't visible, like if the killer didn't want to see what he or she had just done. Right, so similar to covering her up. Mm-hmm. And so with many of the things that we've talked about so far, you've said, oh, this would seem to indicate this was someone she knew.
00:39:54
Speaker
I didn't see any mention as to what Anita was wearing, if anything. I only saw the mention of the robe that was on her. Most of the sources said that she had been, quote unquote, covered by a robe, which implies that she hadn't been wearing the robe, but that it was just laid on her after the fact.
00:40:19
Speaker
So again, somebody she knew. Right. Yeah. The act of covering up Anita's body, just like if she had been rolled over, shows a personal connection to the victim. Like some sense of guilt or shame over what just happened. And you know, Maggie, you and I know that the connection, it doesn't actually have to be personal. Right. It could be a perceived connection to the victim.
00:40:46
Speaker
I don't know if you remember, this was probably one of the most gruesome cases that we've ever covered on the show. But the Dardine family murder. Is this the one with the mom that's pregnant? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the mom, her young child, and the newly born child were killed, and then they were tucked into bed after they were murdered. But in that case, we believe that the murderer likely
00:41:16
Speaker
was a serial killer. And so not even someone who knew the family. So that just shows you that that act of covering up or like those odd markers that normally show a personal connection that it can be perceived. It doesn't have to actually be a personal connection. Also, even though there was no evidence of sexual assault, which tells me that
00:41:43
Speaker
If police did find DNA, a detail that we'll talk about in a minute, that the DNA was not semen nor saliva, because those would indicate some sort of a sexual assault. But if that one article is correct and she had tried to fend off the attacker, then maybe we could get DNA from under her fingernails.
00:42:10
Speaker
Right. And we'll talk about the DNA here in a minute. So the fact that it's, they said there's no evidence of a sexual assault. That tells me that if there is DNA, it's not likely semen nor saliva, because those would seem to indicate
00:42:32
Speaker
the sexual nature. But just because those things might not be present or there's no evidence of a sexual assault also doesn't mean that the crime wasn't sexually motivated. Because I actually read an article that was talking about how a knife itself can be seen as like a phallic object and the stabbing as like non-consensual
00:42:57
Speaker
and it can actually reveal something of a sexual motivation. But- Wow. Yeah. That's very Freudian. It is, yeah. But I'm not sure that in Anita's case, since there are only a couple of stab wounds, that it necessarily fits that scenario. An autopsy revealed that Anita had no drugs nor alcohol in her system.
00:43:24
Speaker
The stab wounds themselves had been made by a pocket with a three to four inch blade. Oh, that sounds like what was that case that we did that she was taken to like that really remote Valerie Brooks. Yes. Yep. But here's the weird part, Maggie. That knife was actually found at the scene. So fingerprints. Well, I don't know.
00:43:54
Speaker
we'll get to DMA. But again, there are some conflicts in the details. So some sources like True Crime Daily and KX News say that the knife was found at the foot of Anita's bed. This is why I said most of the crime
00:44:16
Speaker
and the evidence are just in Anita's bedroom because other sources like the Huffington Post, Minot Daily Times, and NBC News say that the knife was found in the kitchen sink. But regardless, the murder weapon was left behind. I also find that odd.
00:44:39
Speaker
Right. Right. I mean, it's a pocket knife. It's not hard to conceal. Yeah, it's small. And I would it's in your pocket. Yeah, if it's well, if it's a pocket knife, you would think that I guess that does that mean they're all foldable? Yeah, I think so. Right. Because they would have to go in the pocket if you fold it up and you put it in your pocket. I was going to say like, I mean, obviously, the perpetrator may have left the weapon behind out of fear of being seen with it.
00:45:07
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, but I don't think that's the case here. But if it's a pocket knife, you could fold it up and stick it in your pocket, like it's tiny. And I feel like if you are leaving it, or if you're taking a weapon, which I feel is most likely what normally happens, most probably take it because there's this fear of their fingerprints being on it. Right, which would make sense if they found it in the sink though, because then they could have been washing it.
00:45:35
Speaker
I wonder how easy it is to wash off fingerprints. I'll Google it. OK. So the only thing I was thinking is if somebody is leaving the murder weapon behind. Right. Then obviously that fear of leaving fingerprints isn't there. If we ever get. Like wrongfully accused of a crime.
00:46:00
Speaker
It will be based on our search history. I know. I know. I say that to Rodney all the time. I'm like, oh, the things I googled today. Like not as phallic objects. Yeah. Well, can you wash my fingerprints? This says non-porous surfaces like glass metal, plastic, wood varnish and similar things can generally fingerprints can generally be removed by simply wiping the surface clean with a damp cloth. Oh, great.
00:46:30
Speaker
Well, now we know. Yeah. Well, so I was thinking like, if they left it behind, that that would seem to say to me because I would think, okay, even if I knew, even if I read that article that said that you can generally wipe them off, if I'm committing a crime, which I would never, but if I did,
00:46:57
Speaker
I still wouldn't trust that like my luck, I'd try to wipe something off and it wouldn't come off. You know what I mean? I would miss the one corner with my fingerprint on it. Right. So I feel like if you're going to leave a weapon behind, then it shows that you're not worried about people finding fingerprints. So then I'm thinking, okay, did the person wear gloves? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because that's the only reason I can really think of that you wouldn't care to leave the weapon behind. Especially if it's fall enough to be concealed.
00:47:24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And if the knife were put in the sink, which more articles than not said the sink, rather than in the same room as the murder, that indicates to me anyway, a comfort level with the apartment. Mm-hmm. Like, that's more of a natural reaction. Like, I'm gonna go take this and put it in the sink. Yeah, it's like that person that would eat stuff out of people's refrigerators after he killed them. Mm-hmm.
00:47:54
Speaker
Like I just, I don't know if a stranger after having committed murder would then just like walk around the apartment looking for where the kitchen is to drop the knife.
00:48:10
Speaker
Like a random intruder wouldn't come in a window, commit a crime only in one room, and then risk walking through the rest of the apartment potentially leaving other evidence and going away from that entry exit point just to put a knife in a sink. I just have to say I'm anxious to get to the theories because I think I'm going to have a lot to say when we get there.
Exploring Theories Around Anita's Murder
00:48:35
Speaker
Well, another conundrum for me
00:48:38
Speaker
is that the coroner ruled Anita's time of death as early Sunday morning or late Sunday night. And that's a detail that I struggle with. Like what happened to Saturday? Yeah. Why didn't she answer the phone that day? And also shouldn't that be relatively easy to tell if there's a lot of blood? Like was she maybe not actually
00:49:06
Speaker
Cause I feel like the blood would like, you know, congeal or whatever. So she'd been killed super early on like Saturday morning. I feel like they would be able to tell unless she was just like maybe held hostage there for a little bit. And that, that's what I was going to say. That's the only thing I can really think like that could have caused this missing day because otherwise she would have answered the phone with her parents. She would have shown up for work.
00:49:32
Speaker
You know, that's a whole day that we can't account for. And like, obviously, I'm not familiar with dead bodies, but don't you turn colors once you die? Yeah, no, I would think that they would be able to tell but
00:49:52
Speaker
I don't know. I also, I, there was one podcast I listened to recently and they were talking about like, sometimes the difficulty with rigor mortis, like different people's bodies will like, this is gonna sound crude, but like, I guess decay at different speeds and in different ways. And so like, sometimes that's a really, it's like hard detail to nail down.
00:50:22
Speaker
But law enforcement noted one final oddity about the scene that I also want to bring up here. And that is kind of related to the glass comment that I made in that if the glass had been broken, I mentioned that the glass, the guy said he saw it on the outside, which would mean that somebody had broken the window from the inside.
00:50:49
Speaker
Law enforcement, while again, I couldn't corroborate the glass or the window comment, do believe that the screen may have been cut from the inside. Oh, I do feel like that would be easy to tell though. I would think so too, but I've never found a 100% answer.
00:51:12
Speaker
So maybe did the killer go out the window? So I don't think that they think that's what happened at all. I think they say this because that like slashed cut in the screen, they found blood in that cut. So they're assuming that the person cut the screen after having stabbed Anita with a knife.
00:51:42
Speaker
which would mean if the screen isn't cut until after the crime is committed, then the killer didn't come in through the screen.
00:51:52
Speaker
So who let them into this locked apartment? Well, we'll get to that. So law enforcement is now, because of that blood, thinking that whoever did this actually staged the crime scene to make it appear that the window is how the killer got into the apartment. And you know, staging is all about misdirection. So if the killer didn't get in through the window, the killer came in through the door.
00:52:20
Speaker
Right. So let's delve into this crime scene for just a quick moment and then I'll give you the theories. Okay.
00:52:28
Speaker
So first, there is much about this crime scene that makes it appear personal. Anita's turned over. She's face down. In my mind, she was likely moved that way. This makes it seem like the perpetrator didn't want to look at her face after the crime. She's covered with a robe. And we, again, just as I said before, know that covering shows guilt. And, you know, it's often done by someone close to the victim, though
00:52:58
Speaker
devil's advocate, I brought up the Dardine family, right? That was committed by a stranger. So there are exceptions. But there are other details about the crime scene, Maggie, that to me seem very calculated and thought out. Like the weapon was left, which tells me that the killer believed that it couldn't be traced back to them. Yeah, kind of cocky.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah, so if they wore gloves or something like that, that's a very calculated thought out. The window is likely staged to make it look like the point of entry for the perpetrator, telling us that the killer wants the police to believe that he or she was a stranger, like somebody who has to break in, somebody without a key, somebody without access to the apartment.
00:53:51
Speaker
And you know, like sometimes if you are like all these like shows that we watch and podcasts we listen to, like if you're an inexperienced killer, like I don't think that you're going to think about
00:54:06
Speaker
Like, oh, I'm staging it. Yeah. Like I'm busing this window to make it appear that I came in this way, but by breaking it from the inside, the glass is going to be on the wrong side. Right. Yeah. But like that staging itself seems very calculated. Yeah. But remember when Gordon jiggles the doorknob, it's locked.
00:54:32
Speaker
So either the killer had a key to unlock the apartment.
00:54:37
Speaker
Right, because we assume by cutting the screen from the inside, because there's blood on it, that that is an attempt to draw attention away from the door, which has led law enforcement to be like, okay, they came in likely through the door, but the door is locked. So either the killer had a key to unlock the apartment, or was let in by Anita. So either way, exactly, she would have known that person.
00:55:03
Speaker
And then the perpetrator likely locked the door on the way out after the crime took place. And combine all of those facts with the fact that it seemed the only motivation for the crime was to hurt Anita. Right, because the apartment, nothing's gone. Everything is
00:55:25
Speaker
in order. Right. So as for theories of who the perpetrator could be, there are several that police explored, nearly all of whom Klug and his department have taken DNA samples from as well.
00:55:41
Speaker
So before I get into the real theories, I will say that there was one that was thought that it could be a possibility at the beginning. One witness actually called police soon after the crime happened to say that she had just recently seen a man running away from the apartment building and she gave like this detailed description of the runner. But the man actually called the police station himself after seeing his likeness and his description.
00:56:08
Speaker
so he's like oh that you know i saw this and that's actually me this is my running route yeah like i take this route often when i run and he willingly gave a statement and a dna sample okay so
00:56:24
Speaker
Now we'll get into the more drawn out theories. So theory one, construction workers. At the building across the street, an out of state construction company was doing some work and a local construction crew was working on the roof of Anita's apartment complex.
00:56:44
Speaker
So while those who were employed by the out of state company across the street could be questioned and DNA collected because they're on the payroll. Right. So like there's a list of workers. Yeah. Those who were working on the roof of Anita's complex were often day laborers.
00:57:03
Speaker
Oh, so like they're like, hey, we need people to help us. Yeah. Like lay this roof when they're at Lowe's and the random dude at checkout's like, okay, I'll be there. Exactly. Yeah. These are like workers who are picked up at a local hardware store or street and they're paid in cash for a day's work. So like no one knowing or remembering if you're asked days later a name or even where to find them.
00:57:29
Speaker
So could one of them have committed this crime? But then, if that's true, how had they gotten in? Since most assumptions are that the window was a red herring and that the scene was only staged to appear that the window was the point of entry. Well, I know that you know what I think happened. Yeah, I do. But I'm going to present some more theories, though. OK, so I just don't feel the construction worker. OK.
00:57:58
Speaker
I'll come back to it at the end and see if I can change, but right now I don't know. Okay. Theory two.
00:58:04
Speaker
was a dance club patron or a random attack. So I mentioned before, Anita loved to go dancing downtown and she was beautiful. So men would hit on her all the time, men whom she continually turned down. So could one of those men have followed her, maybe stalking the apartment, saw the opportunity when Anita was the only one home,
00:58:31
Speaker
and gone in and have committed this crime. But just like with the other one, I struggle because then I feel like the crime would have been different, like more angry than calculated, more sexual in nature. Yeah, I was gonna say, could this have been someone that she met and then willingly brought home to her apartment? But again, I feel like it would be a little more sexual. Right, that would be my assumption.
00:59:02
Speaker
Theory three is the roommate or someone who the roommate left behind. Many eyes went immediately to Anita's roommate. We're all thanking it. Okay. So after all, Anita had recently had problems with her. She had even told her mom that a roommate has sent her threatening texts. And since the crime seemed personal, was that why?
00:59:32
Speaker
Well, I do have to say, am I good? I know you're probably gonna talk about it. Am I good? I don't know that it was necessarily the roommate. Like I said, we're all thinking that. It's somehow related to the roommate. I don't think it was necessarily the roommate, but like you said, maybe someone she let in. Yes. Because as for an alibi, Anita's roommate said that she'd been home all weekend, a detail that her parents corroborated.
00:59:58
Speaker
That detail, however, wasn't enough for many people to discount the woman. She's never been publicly identified. And that's because she's never been named a person of interest. But she's also never been ruled out either. So the city of Minot, which is where they were attending school living in that off-campus apartment, is only 27 square miles. And the roommate lived in Minot.
01:00:29
Speaker
Oh, and the alibi. Yeah, and the alibi is coming courtesy of her parents. So those people who believe this theory that it's the roommate, they're arguing, well, there needs to be some more objective alibi source, right? Because of course, our parents are lottery. Yeah.
01:00:48
Speaker
And if she's still in the city of Minot and Minot is that small, then she could have snuck out in the middle of the night to commit this crime and then gone back home without anybody knowing. She could have said, I'm going to go to the store. Yeah. And been gone for an hour and then been back. Right. And there's that act of potentially subconsciously putting the knife in the sink.
01:01:14
Speaker
Plus, her DNA would already be all over the apartment. So if it were found to be careful, yeah, nearly anywhere, it could be explained away really easily.
01:01:27
Speaker
According to the article in True Crime Daily, the roommate's mom also caused a scene at Anita's funeral because she was upset that Anita's family was even accusing her daughter of such a crime. Okay, but Anita's family's upset her daughter, their daughter's dead, so your daughter's alive. Yeah, have some grace. Yeah.
01:01:48
Speaker
On the other hand though, cause I like to play devil's advocate, her alibi could be legitimate. Like just because no one else, like no objective source can corroborate it, doesn't mean that it wasn't true. Right. Like if you were at home and you were watching Netflix all night long by yourself, no one can say that that's true or false. Right. You know what I mean? Plus there are other possibilities related to the roommate.
01:02:16
Speaker
Like I said before, could the roommate who was known to have let guys in the apartment and then left them there, could the roommate have left to go home and left a guy in the apartment, a guy who was still there when Anita returned home on Friday night? That just seems weird to me though, like how, I guess she just locked him in there and was like, walk the door whenever you leave, bye. Maybe.
01:02:42
Speaker
But I feel like the roommate would have at least said to police the name of the person. Yeah. Especially if you think that person committed murder. Yeah. And especially if you're kind of being questioned about it, then I'd be like, um, no, I was at my parents, but Billy Bob was at my house. So go check on Billy Bob. Yeah.
01:03:02
Speaker
Anita's dad, Gordon, actually thought that there might be a connection, not with Anita's current roommate, but with the one that she was going to move in with, but didn't. Or rather, that potential roommate's husband.
01:03:21
Speaker
So in that same article for True Crime Daily, Mr. Knudsen intimated that Anita had backed out of moving in with that other person, because remember, she was thinking about moving out, right? But then she decided against it, that she actually backed out of moving in with that other friend because of that friend's husband, because that husband had been hitting on her. And she was like, yeah, I'm not going to stand for something like that.
01:03:47
Speaker
And so Anita's dad actually wonders if maybe Anita had told or had planned on telling that friend about the husband's advances. And then this is the result. Possible. Okay. Theory four. The maintenance man.
01:04:08
Speaker
This one is an interesting theory because he had keys to every apartment as a maintenance man. Many suspect him because he is the one who pointed out the cut screen.
01:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, but I feel like that's kind of his job. Well, I think you can see it either way. So those who believe this theory, they say, well, it's just too coincidental that he just so happens to point out the staging element, right, the screen. And he points it out right at the time when Gordon Knudsen finds his daughter.
01:04:46
Speaker
That's true. Like, oh, look at that screen over there. And we talked about, we talked about that earlier. Like, why did it take you so long to find the screen? Right. Yeah. Because if the crime occurred Saturday night or Sunday morning, then the torn screen wouldn't have just shown up on Monday when Mr. Knudsen arrives.
01:05:05
Speaker
Right. And if he did find it before Monday and the window was open or broken again, our first thought would be breaking and he would have checked it out. Like look in the window and you would have seen the crime. But like you said,
01:05:24
Speaker
Well, I'll add one more detail. So I will also tell you that in many of the sources, they mentioned that years later, the maintenance man did commit suicide. And we know that
01:05:40
Speaker
There are many times when those who commit crimes go on to later commit suicide because of guilt. But we don't know if that's the reason. Right. We don't know if he was struggling with something. Exactly. It happened years later. There are many people who sadly take their own lives for many other reasons other than it being an indication of a crime.
01:06:08
Speaker
And like you said, Maggie, he is the maintenance man. So noticing a torn screen would make sense, you know, because that's something that he of all people would pay attention to. Right. And I don't know his work schedule. Like maybe he was off on the weekends. I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah.
01:06:27
Speaker
And so, like, if so, then he wouldn't have seen it until Monday. Or, you know, maybe he didn't originally give that screen a second thought, especially like if it fell out of the window in a way that like part of it or even the cut itself was concealed. And was it like a lot of screen that was cut or just like enough for your hand to fit through, you know? Yeah, that I don't know. Right.
01:06:52
Speaker
Okay, one more theory. Okay. Theory five. A friend from the past named Tyler. Tyler and Anita had known each other in high school. They'd actually gone to senior prom together. After high school, they had both decided to attend Minot State University.
01:07:13
Speaker
Which again, like just because they're taking the same path, I don't necessarily think that is creepy or odd. Like there are a lot of people who stay close to home. Yeah, there are tons of people that I graduated high school with that went to the same college that I did because it was 30 minutes from our houses. Right. And my not.
01:07:33
Speaker
isn't that huge. It's 27 square miles. So it also isn't necessarily odd that both Tyler and Anita moved into the same office apartment complex. Right. Because it's probably limited options. Right. And we know that there are other Minot State University students there because the one who told the newspaper about the broken glass is one. Right.
01:07:57
Speaker
Tyler and Anita's relationship was not romantic. Tyler actually freely admitted that he had always had a crush on Anita, but that they were just friends and that they never dated. So when he saw law enforcement at Anita's apartment, of course he went over there to see what was going on, right? Because it's like, why are there people over there? The police asked him, when was the last time he had spoken with Anita?
01:08:26
Speaker
And he immediately told them a time down to the minute, which caught them off guard. Now, Tyler explained that the reason he knew the time down to the minute, and this makes sense, is that when he first walked over, the first person he saw was Anita's aunt who had asked him when was the last time he had spoken with Anita. So he had just gone back to his computer to check the time from their chat log.
01:08:55
Speaker
Okay. And normal. Okay. So then he's saying, that's why when the police asked me, you know, I could say, Oh, it was, you know, this time 11 or whatever, exactly. But it was enough that law enforcement immediately questioned him concerning any involvement.
Close Relationships and Suspicions
01:09:16
Speaker
Like, was this somebody who committed a crime, like trying to keep a close eye on the investigation to know what they discovered? Is that why he was coming over?
01:09:26
Speaker
You know what I mean? But I feel like it's like when you're on the interstate and you pass a car accident and you turn to look at it. If you see tons of police at your apartment complex, you're probably, especially if it's near your friend's apartment, you're going to walk over. Oh, yeah. And since he always had a crush on Anita, they're like, okay, was he jealous that she didn't return the feelings?
01:09:55
Speaker
He told True Crime Daily, quote, she was just so amazing. She just meant that much to me. Back in my first days of college, all my high school friends moved away, and she was my only friend I had then. I'm a quiet, shy guy, and I'm not that much outgoing. So at that time, she was my only friend. She was just the most amazing person in the world, and she didn't deserve any of this, end quote.
01:10:24
Speaker
So they're like, okay, are these the words of somebody who's obsessed with Anita? Or are these the words of a grieving friend? I almost feel like in this theory, they're like pulling at air. Like, I just feel like this is a grieving friend. Not a creepy person. And I will say that with every question, every request for DNA, everything, Tyler was cooperative.
01:10:53
Speaker
Plus, again, I feel like if this were an act of passion or anger, then I feel in my gut that the scene would have looked far different. Yeah, because if he's into Anita and wants to have a night with her and she says no, I think it would again be more sexual than what it was. Yeah, yeah.
01:11:14
Speaker
Overall, more than 40 people were interviewed, but each trail has gone cold until there's additional evidence to back up one of the theories to create a provable case. Now, I kept telling you I'd come back to the DNA, and here's why. I have to ask, is there DNA evidence to compare?
01:11:38
Speaker
even though law enforcement has taken it from nearly every person who they've questioned, they've taken a DNA sample. And the short answer is, I don't know. Because one article for the Minot Daily Times by Kim Fundingsland in 2017
01:11:56
Speaker
Law enforcement described the DNA as quote, kind of a tricky thing, end quote. And then they went on to tell the reporter, quote, there's been rumors on both sides that we have DNA or we don't have DNA. Maybe that's a question we leave out there, end quote. Yet, so that was in 2017, yet two years earlier,
01:12:21
Speaker
In the article, Family of Murdered MSU Student Demands Answers by David Lore of the Huffington Post that was published on September 28th, 2015, Anna Knutson told a reporter, quote, they are going to retest the DNA found at the scene. We are told that the test will take around two or three months, end quote. So that says there is DNA. Yeah.
01:12:50
Speaker
And I feel like them taking samples means there's DNA. Yeah. I just feel like that's super weird to me. Like why say there's DNA or tell the family that you're going to retest DNA, the results of which I haven't seen. Um, but then two years later be like, well, there's rumors on both sides. So we're not going to clarify whether we have it or not. So it makes me wonder if like,
01:13:19
Speaker
like how much DNA they have and what kind of DNA. And I mean, obviously those months and now years have passed since that article with the Huffington Post was written and there are still no further answers. So as a result, law enforcement have stated that even with DNA collected from various people who they interviewed at this point, they are not ruling out anyone
01:13:49
Speaker
which again seems an odd statement, if DNA comparison could rule them out, right? If they do have DNA, couldn't they rule people out? So that's what leaves it unclear if there is DNA evidence or I don't know, if there is, then that seems an odd comment to make, like we're not gonna rule anybody out. And it seems kind of weird to not say, yes, we have DNA or no, we don't.
01:14:17
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree. And when asked about whether law enforcement feel that they've spoken with the killer, Minot Police Chief John Klug made this comment to Kim Fundingsland of the Minot Daily News for an article that was published June 4th, 2017. Quote, it's a possibility that we've talked to the killer. I don't think you can ever say until we solve it that we have talked to him right out of the chute.
01:14:47
Speaker
I don't second guess what's been done. Technology, investigative tools, techniques have all changed a little bit. Ultimately, for every one of us, we ask, what else can we do? What can be done to solve this case? Not just for us, but for the family, to give them closure that they need for what happened to their daughter, end quote.
01:15:09
Speaker
Now, I don't know if you noticed a little detail in Chief Klug's statement, and I don't know if it's significant or not. Like, it could just be a slip up because men are generally the perpetrators in murder investigations, or if it's an indication to at least the gender of who Chief Klug thinks committed the crime. But he said, quote, talked to him
01:15:41
Speaker
So that seems, so I don't know if that was just like a slip up or if he said, or if he said them, you know, like talked to him. Yeah. And it sounded like him and the reporter wrote him, you know, like, I don't want to say that we've talked to him. Yeah. And it just sounds like you're saying him. Yeah. So given all the theories,
01:16:10
Speaker
Which do you think is most likely, Maggie?
01:16:14
Speaker
I think, I don't think it's Tyler. Like from the beginning, I didn't think that one was it. Um, the maintenance man for like the majority of who we were talking, I was like, it could be the maintenance man. But then when we were talking about like, we don't know his schedule, like that kind of made me question if it was the maintenance man, you know,
01:16:44
Speaker
Then when we get up to we'll skip we'll come back to the roommates one Okay, so like a random attack one. I wasn't feeling that construction worker wasn't feeling that like I said I don't know that it was necessarily the roommate it could have been someone that was left behind in the apartment, but to me that Theory three
01:17:05
Speaker
makes the most sense in a case that has a lot of things that don't make sense. Right. Yeah. With no motive. Yeah. That at least gives a motive. Nearly six years after his sister's murder, Daniel Knudsen took his own life on April 9th, 2013.
Impact on Anita's Family
01:17:29
Speaker
According to Anna, Anita's death had taken such a horrendous toll on her brother.
01:17:35
Speaker
It had changed him, as it would anyone. Anna told David Law of the Huffington Post, quote, I definitely think he took his life because of her death. He really struggled with it. I mean, we all did, but he took it especially hard. He never was quite the same after her murder, and I think it really haunted him because he wasn't there to help her, end quote. Similarly,
01:18:03
Speaker
Anna told Pilar Melendez of the Daily Beast, quote, whoever killed my sister had a hand in also killing my brother, end quote. And she's right. The Knutson's had two children taken from them by the same killer. That fact has made everyone even more intent on helping the Knutson family find answers. And someone has those answers.
01:18:34
Speaker
Chief Klug told the Minot Daily News, quote, there's not any information that's out there that's not worth our time. Anybody with information, if they know anybody connected with Anita, that might help us. Please solve it. We don't care who solves it. We just want it solved, end quote. And I leave you sleuth hounds with Anna Knudsen's words to Pilar Melendez.
01:19:02
Speaker
Quote, if anyone knows anything at all, I'm just asking people to have a little courage here and speak up. If you know anything at all, please say something. It's not lost on me how heavy that is. We've lost two people in our family. We're just asking for a little courage. End quote.
01:19:30
Speaker
Anita Knudsen was responsible, kind, and driven. Now it's our turn to be the same. Anyone with information about the case is asked to call the Minot Police Department at 701-852-0111.
01:19:54
Speaker
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01:20:24
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.