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Freeing Slaves
214 Plays2 years ago
Brandon McNace is a former finance professional who left his dream job to pursue a calling to free slaves in Pakistan. He is the founder of Exodus 5:1, an organization dedicated to rescuing and rehabilitating victims of modern-day slavery.
Brandon shares his journey from a successful career in finance to becoming a modern-day abolitionist. He recounts the pivotal moments and encounters that led him to leave his job and start working to free slaves in Pakistan. Brandon explains the process of buying slaves out of bondage and the challenges they face in reintegrating into society. He also discusses the impact of his work and the importance of raising awareness about modern-day slavery. Brandon reveals his vision for the future, including plans for a new campus and the goal of setting free millions of slaves worldwide.
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Transcript
Introduction to Uncommon Wealth Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Everyone dreams of living an uncommon life and the best asset you have to achieve your dreams is you. Welcome to the Uncommon Wealth Podcast. We're going to introduce you to people who are living uncommonly. We're also going to give you some tools and strategies for building wealth and for pursuing an uncommon path that is uniquely right for you.
Meeting Brandon: A Serendipitous Encounter
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome everybody to another episode of the Un-Commonwealth Podcast. I'm your host, Phillip Ramsey. Have a really fun one for you. This guy had been wanting to get on the podcast for quite some time. I met him golfing, and the way that I kind of introduced myself is like to the foursome, maybe fivesome, can't remember. Was it foursome? Fivesome. Okay, thanks. Fivesome was like, I will be the worst golfer. And Brandon was like, no, I'll be the worst golfer.
00:00:50
Speaker
And then right away I was like, he and I are going to be kindred spirits. Uh, and then sure enough, uh, we were, and the way that his uncommon roles is awesome. So, uh, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah. McNace. Yes. Uh, so one, I look up to you like
What is Brandon's Mission?
00:01:06
Speaker
crazy. I think one we've had how long interactions golfing takes way too long. So let's just act like that was an hour because we don't really get to talk that much, but we were cart buddies. So I felt like we were searching for our balls a lot. So yeah.
00:01:18
Speaker
And a lot of times if it was over like 30 seconds, we were like, and we've lost that one. Yeah. So, uh, first I ask you, Hey, what do you do? And you were like, I free silly ice. I free slaves. That was what you said. And immediately I was like, well, that's uncommon. You should be on my podcast, but I didn't say it at the time, but I was like, let's unpack that a little more. You haven't met anyone that so far that does that. No. Okay. Yeah.
00:01:40
Speaker
No. And I would say when you were in college, that wasn't probably what you thought you wanted to do either. Two years ago. That wasn't that. Yeah. Okay. So it's been kind of new. Yeah. But what I love about Brandon is one, he's authentic that you're going to probably come across to a fault. And then two, we both have whoop bands in a similar community. So I like that. Totally kidding. You don't even know what that is, but Brandon does. And so too, I love that he's
00:02:04
Speaker
Searching people one make an impact but also doing it for the kingdom and so a strong believer But authentic and so to me that's attractive. I hope it is for you and at the end of this I hope you have another best friend because he's a kindred spirit like me. So thanks for listening Brandon. Where do you want to start?
00:02:19
Speaker
Where do you want to start? Back to birth? I don't know. You decide. We can go there. We can go to 10 different episodes. You just tell me what you want. First, you're married to the love of your life. Yes. Probably been married 12, maybe 13, maybe 12. Yeah. Have three kids. Three boys. Super intentional with that. So let's get that out of the way. Yep. What were you doing two and a half years ago?
00:02:37
Speaker
So yeah, we'll back up.
Life-Changing Revelation
00:02:40
Speaker
So my dream job was always real estate. Like I want to go and do a bunch of stuff in real estate. Yeah. That was always my dream job. So I was, I was reading to do that. Yeah. Well, I did for a while. I was reading Robert Kiyosaki books, rich dad, poor dad. Yeah.
00:02:54
Speaker
My uncle at 12 was like, read this. We had the board game that we played. I mean, you name it, right? Yeah. Yeah, I have that board game. Yeah, of course. So that was me. Yeah. And so anyways, went to college, graduated, finance degree, all that stuff. And so got my dream job. Basically, what college? Just because I want to know. So I went to UNI for a year. We sure did. And then I graduated, though, from Iowa State.
00:03:15
Speaker
Oh, okay. Okay, so yeah. You're going to panther for a little bit. Just for a little bit, yeah. So then, so anyways, so graduated, did all this stuff, got my dream job, and what I would do is our clients, so I worked for a large insurance company, so principal financial group.
Career Shifts and Spiritual Guidance
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. We have a lot of probably shared things. Yeah, I did too. Okay. So work there. And basically what we would do is like the retirement side of things, they would come to us, they'd be clients say, you know, a hundred million dollars or whatever to invest in XYZ. And so I was on team, uh, they handled Houston and Austin, Texas, and we would go down and build buildings and work with people down there and then have oversights. You could travel down there, walk through skyscrapers. Okay. So a little bit different real estate then.
00:03:55
Speaker
It was big stuff. Yeah, big institutional investment stuff. It was amazing. And then one day, I remember being down in the basement or whatever after working out and getting suit back on, getting ready to go back up. And I heard so clearly in my spirit, this is your dream for your life, but this is not my dream for you.
00:04:14
Speaker
a Paul moment, a Saul moment. And I was like, that's not real. Because I've worked pretty hard to get here. This is my dream. So the following day, a mentor of mine at work came. He's like, hey, let's go for a walk. And so we're drinking coffee, going for a walk. And he says something along the lines. I was praying last night. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. And then he said something to the effect of, we love having you here. You're amazing. You're really great. He goes, but I was praying. And I really felt like,
00:04:42
Speaker
God said to me that this is
Faith Amidst Challenges
00:04:44
Speaker
your dream for your life, but this isn't his dream for your life. You stop that right now. Yeah. And he was a Luther. So it's like, even a Luther. Even better. So I was just like, this is crazy. So everyone always asks me, what's your thing? My thing that God's given me, all of us, he gives gifts and abilities. One of my things that I think has benefited me more than anything else is that I'll always give him a yes.
00:05:11
Speaker
No matter what it looks like, if I know it's him, I go, okay. Yeah. Which is the right response, by the way. It is, but it's really hard to do. And I don't know why. Especially when you're at the spot where you think like, this is it for me. So I literally turned in my two weeks notice. No. Talked to my wife. Yeah. Told her what happened. She goes, okay. And so. And you're married to an Aaron too.
00:05:29
Speaker
I am. We're basically the same people. Basically. And I would be dead if I didn't, I wasn't married to her. I'm assuming you said the same thing. So I left there and went to another- What was your wife doing at the time? Stay at home, Mom. Okay. So we got no safety net here. No.
00:05:46
Speaker
so left did that and then worked at another job and during that time things weren't going well all this type of stuff like it won't even get into it wait wait wait yeah I'm okay with not getting into that yeah but you put your two weeks notice in without having anything lined up um
00:06:04
Speaker
a brother-in-law reached out to me and said, anytime you want to work here, you can come work here. Okay. Cut type of thing. Okay. So I'm working there. That's a whole nother story. I'm not even part of it, but what I will say is during that time, my dad ended up getting sick. So he was diagnosed with ALS. Um, we moved him into our house and basically I quit that job. Like I knew I was supposed to, and I took care of him. Wow.
00:06:24
Speaker
And so quit that job, took care of him. He had some rentals and some things like that. And so he ended up passing away six months later, like diagnosis to death. It was like six months, roughly. One of the worst times in my entire life. That was the worst disease ever. He had dementia. We had ex-girlfriends coming in to try to marry him. I had two aunts go and try to change the will to take me to my sister. No. You name it, it was a more Povich episode. And during that time, I couldn't hear God.
00:06:50
Speaker
But what I realized is I had so much bitterness in my heart because I didn't really want to be doing, I didn't want to be walking through that. And I was. Even though I knew I was supposed to. So he passes away, fix up his houses, sell them, all that type of stuff. The church I was going to for a while, they were like, hey, you should come on staff. So I was basically an associate pastor.
00:07:10
Speaker
COVID hits. So that's why there's a lot of like little moving pieces COVID hits and we're doing the fake church thing or pretending we're having church. So everybody online thinks we're having church, but there's no one there. And so I remember walking from the stage, um, opening service and then walking and sitting down. And I remember hearing you don't belong here anymore. You need to leave. So I'm a, I'd walked away from corporate. And that's the first time you've heard this voice since you walked away from corporate. Uh, yeah, like to that extent. Yes.
00:07:35
Speaker
So literally I left corporate. Okay. Things finally are working again. Right. And I'm like, I was called into ministry. This is what I'm supposed to do. And so I was like, okay. So again, put in my two weeks and that started this process of, you know,
00:07:53
Speaker
Basically what God had to do is prune me down, and it was I think because of my pride. And he had to cut me down to size. And I spent time basically going to little churches, and I became an evangelist. But he told me to walk away from all the contacts I have, he would give me brand new ones. So I'm going and preaching at 30 person church in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't matter. He opens the door, I'll go to it. And because of that, old mentor of mine who led me to the Lord, you know, whatever, 12, 13 years ago, he invited me down to Brazil.
00:08:23
Speaker
So hey,
Vision and Guidance for Asia Mission
00:08:24
Speaker
you should come preach in Brazil. And let me know if you want to pause or ask other questions. No, no, no, keep saying your words, Flo. So I go down to Brazil, and this is where things get, I mean, there's like a billion stories I could tell, but this is kind of the highlights to get me where I'm at now. So I'm down in Brazil, and I preached my first sermon with an interpreter. It was amazing. I mean, just everyone down there was amazing. So we go to this new town. No one knows who I am. No one knows me. I'm not a big deal. Yeah, you're Brazil. Yeah, I'm in Brazil, mill in nowhere.
00:08:51
Speaker
And this church is really big. And I'm thinking, oh, here we go. I'm going to crush it. Like, I'm going to. You should have seen me in that last church. I crushed it. It was this thing of like, I didn't even realize it was in there. But I was like, thank you like that already. And I'm like, nobody. So all of a sudden, getting ready to preach that night, I don't get asked to preach.
00:09:11
Speaker
So I'm like, why am I here if I'm not gonna preach? And all of a sudden I heard the only reason you wanted to preach, because this is a big church. And until you get your pride in check, I can't use you. And so I started crying.
00:09:26
Speaker
Right there, the church. Yeah, and so I went to the altar, I broke down and I said, God, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't notice this, it's here. Right. Whatever it is you wanna do. Praise the Lord. Whatever it is, I'll do it, but I know it needs to be you. So church service is done, no one at this church, and this town has heard me, no one knows who I am. All of a sudden, a lady opens the door, she comes late, church service is done, she walks in the door and she points at me, and I'm like,
00:09:52
Speaker
You know, what's going on? Yeah. So she walks down, we get an interpreter to come over and she said, I had a vision this morning and I saw you and I was supposed to come to Enrija Metedita in Juiz Tafora. The man in my vision was supposed to be here. It's you. I have a few things I need to tell you. And I'm like, I'm listening.
00:10:10
Speaker
Okay, I said, well, what's the first thing? In the church world, it's like people are like, God, give me a word. And you're like, okay. But this was a single, a single guy will be like, God, give me a word. We're supposed to get married. And you're like, no, that was God. So I'm sitting there going somewhat skeptical. Yeah, I agree. And first thing she said is, why are you so worried about money?
00:10:32
Speaker
And I was like, what? Because the world I left was safety. And I left it for this. And I had a fear of not having enough. I wanted to be a big deal. And I wasn't going to be now. I don't know how I'm going to make it. Are we going to lose our house? That was got to provide. And she looked at me. She goes, every single dream that he's given you, he's going to accomplish. And I was like, OK. Well, it's the second thing. She looks at me. She goes, you don't spend enough time with God. And in my head, I think to myself,
00:10:59
Speaker
I write sermons. And she looks at me, she goes, and I know you write sermons. And I was like, what? And she said, in the vision, I saw you in your office. And she described my entire office. And she said, I saw you writing sermons. She's like, you're good. Like, you're good. But you actually get to know him for other people, not just for you and him.
00:11:21
Speaker
And he wants to get to know you and he wants you to know him at that level, not for other people. And at that point, after she described my office. He wants a relationship with you. Yeah. And when she described my office, I was like, okay. You're in. So then I go, so what's the third thing? And she said, the third thing I'm supposed to tell you is that he has called you to go to Asia.
00:11:39
Speaker
And I go, okay. Stop it right now. Like what? I'm good with one and two. Yeah. He's called you to Asia. He's going to use you to set his people free. He's given you a key to unlock doors that no one else can unlock. And through you, he's, you're going to change your region of the world. And I go, okay. I got way more questions. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, what's the country? Right. She goes, I don't know. Well, what's the key? What's the key look like? When do I get the key? Yeah. She goes, I don't know. That's all I'm supposed to tell you. And she walked out the doors.
00:12:10
Speaker
Unbelievable. So that's October of 2022. So first night, second night, we're at the big church still. Guess who didn't get a preach again? Me.
00:12:21
Speaker
And the service is done, and all of a sudden a young girl comes up to me and she spoke English, and I have a tattoo up my right arm. And she grabbed my arm, she looked at my tattoo, and I'm thinking, this is weird. And she goes, is your name Brandon? And I go, yeah. She goes, okay, good.
00:12:39
Speaker
I had a vision this morning. God told me to come to Nehem, at the Dista, in the Dista IV. And I said, wait, wait. Did you see me in the vision? She said, no. In the vision, I heard God say, there'll be a man at Nehem, at the Dista, in the Dista IV. There's going to be a tattoo up his right arm. His name's Brandon. You have a few things that you need to tell him. No. Promise you. I have goosebumps. Promise you. My mouth is wide open. I go, what do you need to tell me? Why are you so worried about money? Hit you with it again. You don't spend enough time with them.
00:13:07
Speaker
And I'm supposed to tell you that he's called you to Asia to set his people free. The same three. Same stuff. Same stuff. And I go, and the only thing that was different is she said, don't worry. The country you're going to might seem dangerous, but he said, he told me to tell you that he's got you. He's going to protect you. Oh my gosh. This is the best podcast I've ever had. Yeah. I've like got a billion stories. And so I'm sitting here going,
00:13:35
Speaker
Okay. Okay. That's interesting. Seems a little bit of coincidence here. Checks out. Yeah. Right. And so I fly back home. That's October. Sorry. That was August of 2021. So go back home. I'm still, I'm, I'm in my office going, God, what do you want me to do?
How Did Brandon Start His Mission in Pakistan?
00:13:51
Speaker
Like I've like something burned inside of me, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do. All this stuff.
00:13:55
Speaker
And so, because again, I'd left the church, and so I'm kind of on my own. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, and God's given me a thing, but I don't, like, OK. So at what point did you call Aaron? I was like, hey. I told all this stuff. Now, mind you, if we had 18 hours, I could tell you stories like that in different things that have happened previously. Sure. So you're trying to expedite the story. Yeah. OK. There's a lot of other stuff, like how I got saved. I mean, there's a ton of crazy stuff.
00:14:22
Speaker
But the one thing is we've always seen the fruitfulness of obeying him. We've never questioned who he is because we've never been in a position where we could question his character, if that makes sense. He's always provided. Always. Every step of the way. Like, hey, we wanted this house at auction, my first house, wanted an auction. This is an example. Middle of the financial crisis.
00:14:44
Speaker
Okay. No one has any money. And so there was this catch 22 where my wife was like, I think, you know, we're supposed to go there and put a bid on this house and buy it at auction. So we won the little bit of money we had. We put down for the down payment and it goes on this battle of the finance company was like, Hey, you have to fix these couple of things before I gave you the loan. And then on the flip side, the company that was selling to us like, well, you don't get access until you give us the money.
00:15:08
Speaker
So a couple months go by, it's in the middle of the financial crisis. Like everybody's freaking out, everyone's losing their jobs. On like Friday, they're like, if you don't have, it was like 71 or 72,000 or something to us on Monday, we're gonna take the house and we're gonna auction it. So I went back to that house and I said, God, if you want us here, you said this was the house. If it's not, that's totally fine. Help me understand it, but I'm pretty sure we're being obedient here.
00:15:37
Speaker
So anyways, I won't get into the names. My father and I said, you should go ask so and so. And so I went to this person that I'd never met, told him what happened. He goes, how much do you need? And he wrote me a check and paid for the house. And I paid him back. And I like paid him back like a month later. Like it was stuff like that. They would just happen. Always like it always happened. Okay. So anyways, so that was August of 2021. Yep.
00:16:02
Speaker
I go back home, don't know what's going on. Well, that church that had never heard me preach, the big one, said, hey, we wanna do a conference. We would love for you to come here and to do this for us. So I said, oh, okay. So I went back. Brazil you go. Yep, so I go back to Brazil.
00:16:22
Speaker
It was awesome, I have some amazing friends there now. It was definitely a part of my story and definitely gonna be a part of it going forward. So, but I go down there, nothing happens, there's no other words for me. And it rolls up on to... But you didn't teach. Yep, so I taught at the church that I wasn't allowed to before, because my pride was in a check. So I finally got it back. That's helpful. Yes. But then, I'm sitting here going, I still don't know what's going on. And we watched a series called The Chosen. Yeah, oh yeah.
00:16:49
Speaker
Anyway, so we watched this series, and in they do a show in the theater. And so they, prior to that, there was this guy that messaged me, and all he said was, Shalom, man of God. Now, when you get in ministry, people message you all the time and ask for money, like overseas, which is part of it. So I didn't think anything of it. And he would only just say, Shalom, man of God. So I'm like, hey, that was it.
00:17:11
Speaker
Little did I know this man didn't know how to speak English, okay? Don't know where he's from, don't, okay, whatever, doesn't, nothing. So we go to the theater, and they define the word shalom, and when they define the word shalom, all of a sudden I hear this guy's name, and I think back to this guy, shalom, and I go, man, I think I'm supposed to write this guy, and this might have been like December, January of, you know, December 22, or January, or sorry, December 21, or January 22.
00:17:38
Speaker
So I'm sitting there going, I think I'm supposed to write this guy, so I told my wife, anyways, I get home. Simon, who now runs everything for us in Pakistan, wrote me on this guy's thing. So he said, hey, we've been waiting for a couple years. God told us to wait that he would send us someone. We were on Facebook, and a sermon that you did in Brazil, popped into our feed, and God told us, this is the one you've been waiting for. I was wondering if we could talk on the phone. Holy cow.
00:18:07
Speaker
Asia. So I call him and during this time I'm sitting here going,
00:18:16
Speaker
I'm in the book of Exodus.
Founding of Exodus 5-1 and Initial Work
00:18:18
Speaker
I'm a one trick pony preacher. I can't get out of Exodus. You told me this. I can't get out of Exodus. So I call him. I said, Hey, what's up? You know, like, where are you at? And he goes, I'm in Pakistan. So it's Pakistan in Asia. Yes. Yep. Okay. And I don't tell him anything of the word. Nothing, right? Nothing. Right. And I was like, so who do you work with? Like, what do you guys do? You said you've been waiting for me. So what is it that you do?
00:18:40
Speaker
Well, um, there's roughly, you know, anywhere between, you know, three and a half of four and a half million Christian slaves in the country. And I was like, okay, wait, what? And he goes, well, you know, like Exodus, the story. And I said, familiar. And he goes, so how they made bricks for Egypt. Yeah. It's the same thing in Pakistan.
00:19:01
Speaker
And I was like, what? And so he's kind of talking and I'm sitting here like how many of the listeners are gonna be like, what do you mean they're slaves? I'm stuck on this. And I made the comment and I said, well, can you buy him? And he goes, yeah.
00:19:15
Speaker
So my wife doesn't know this part of the story. She does now. So I go upstairs, and I said, hey, babe, this is going to sound really crazy. And she goes, oh, back up. I was supposed to go to Peru and preach at a ton of churches, and it got canceled due to COVID and all this type of stuff. So I was really distraught. And my wife goes, I just have a feeling God's going to open up a door. And I was like, OK. So I walk up. I'm like, hey, I think God opened up a door. And she was like, where?
00:19:41
Speaker
She's probably thinking, Japan, something cool. And I go, Pakistan? And she's like, huh? Here you go. Come again? So she prays about it. And she's like, I actually feel at ease with you doing this. I was like, OK. I talked to my Bible study. I talked to all these people. And everyone's like, no, that is so dumb. But I'm at ease.
00:20:02
Speaker
I'm at ease and she's at ease, right? So I got connected to an evangelist out of Tulsa and a pivotal conversation. I called him and I laid out everything that I just told you.
00:20:12
Speaker
I said, man, and there's other little things, but so many things are lining up. I feel like this is the thing. And he goes, I'm gonna ask you a question, but don't answer until you know. And so anybody that's been in the church world has heard somebody say, have you made Jesus the Lord of your life? Lord of your finances. And that's fine, I get it. He asked me the same question, but he said it differently. He goes, I'm gonna ask you a question, but do not answer until you know. And I say, oh yeah, ask me a question, what's up? Are you willing to die for him or not?
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question to think about. You don't really want to answer that quick.
00:20:44
Speaker
That's a deeper, it's the same thing, is he Lord or not? Okay, so are you willing to die for him or not? And so I paused for like a minute. And I remember when I left my church, the church shop, I have a good resume. So I was applying for jobs, I was doing a lot of stuff, nothing. I was sitting there like, I'm applying for levels way below where I was at, nothing. And that Brazilian evangelist, I'd called him and said, I don't know what I was supposed to do. And he said, you'll never work a normal job in a day of your life. God's called you to something, get over it and go forward. And I was sitting there like, okay.
00:21:14
Speaker
And so I'm just like flabbergasted and I go, you know what? There's nothing else for me to do. And I go, yeah, I'm ready. And he goes, okay, good. He's going to protect you. You need to go. And that's all I needed. My wife was on board. I felt like I was supposed to, the one guy that I was reached out to, he's like, yeah.
00:21:30
Speaker
So I talked to Simon. Simon started sending me pictures of these people. I've never met anybody. Let's go back to the, let's go back to, wait, can you, can you buy them? Like, so let's, I'm sure you had a little bit more conversation about the finances because I feel like our listeners could really benefit from this part, right? So, yeah. So I was like, so what does this look like? Like, what do you mean you buy them? And he said, well, they're owned because there's a debt.
00:21:56
Speaker
Now, typically, it's like fourth, fifth, sixth generation. They're born into it. I would say high 90s, 98, 99% of the people are born into it. Wasn't even their debt. It was born into it. Great, great, great. And therefore, they are now working forever. Correct. We've only encountered one family that has known freedom and gone into slavery. And so we've now saved, so kind of like, spoiler alert, we've saved 1,599 people since April of 2022. We're now the leading organization doing this work.
00:22:25
Speaker
For sure, in Pakistan. For sure. Probably in a bigger area. What's the organization called? Exodus 5-1. OK. So Exodus, like the book of the Bible, and then 5 and then 1. Not spelled out the actual numbers.
00:22:37
Speaker
So Exodus chapter five, verse one, it says, it's the first time Moses tells Pharaoh, let my people go. Okay. Yep. Um, and so anyways, so I'm sitting here and I'm like trying to wrap my mind around this, but to go to the point, back to the point. So the one family we've encountered, a grandfather ended up going to the hospital, had some hospital that died. Couldn't pay it obviously, cause he's dead. The eldest son inherits the good or the bad.
00:23:00
Speaker
So this man inherits his father's hospital debt, has four or five kids, slave owner comes in, buys the debt from the hospital, says, he can work it out for me. That's the only family doing this work now for a year and a half. We have ever encountered every single other person who's been born into it. They don't even know what it's like to be free. So the gist of it, and he explains this to me, he said, there's this debt. Now what we've come to find, I said, well, you know, how much? I'm trying to figure out, it's like, oh, this is going to be like $10,000 a person.
00:23:28
Speaker
So on average, this is going to sound crazy. It's $250 a person. 250 bucks buys a human.
00:23:37
Speaker
out of slavery. Yeah, and technically, if I wanted to, it buys them. So we obviously release them. But that buys a person. But if you could, put them back into some kind of slavery. Yes. So $250 buys a person, and then what we do is for six months, we take care of them, housing and food. Now, we save money up, and we buy in chunks of family. So we don't buy out a single person. We buy out family units. But $50 covers housing and food for six months. So $300 a person, on average,
00:24:05
Speaker
covers the freedom and housing for six months. Okay. I got a couple of other questions. Don't you know, Brandon? What is the individual who has put them in slavery? How do they feel about this? So here's the funny part. By law, they have to sell them to us if we satisfy the debt.
00:24:28
Speaker
Unbelievable, but they can't be happy. They're not. Okay. Because they're worth way more to them. Oh, are you kidding me? Yeah. They're cash cowing. Correct. Okay. So what's their payoff? So like, okay, how are you for the whole life? Like, what are they getting paid? Like two pennies a day? So it varies, but the general idea would be, um, just to make like round numbers. Let's say it's a family of 10, you know, it's a lot of times it's like six, seven, eight, whatever. Let's say it's a family of 10 just to make it. Um, and they work 10 hours a day.
00:24:55
Speaker
Now, some of them work up to 18 hours a day because there's a quota of bricks they have to make each and every day. Last trip I was there was 110 degrees with 70% humidity. It's horrible over there. They work all day. But just for the sake of making things easy, 10 people, 10 hours, that's 100 hours worth of work. A day. They might get paid a dollar.
00:25:19
Speaker
But here's where it gets interesting. So they're owned by the slave owner. Well, they have to stay on the property. So there's a little tiny hut that they live in. They have to rent it. Yeah, they do. So he takes that dollar. Then food. Yep, food. Well, you can't go off site. So you're going to buy the food from me.
00:25:38
Speaker
Oh, you needed to get 80% of that dollar back to the homie. And during the rainy season, there's a rainy season there. They can't make breaks. They still have a quota. So I have to now lend you that money. Oh my gosh. And here's the fun, the kicker. None of them know how much they owe and none of them know how to read or write basically.
00:26:02
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Brandon, this is like the perfect storm. They'll never get out. Yeah. They'll never get out. Ever. So we've asked people, have you ever seen anybody get set free? Nope. Did you even know is it? Nope. Do you, do you know how much you owe? Nope. Brandon. It's crazy. It's crazy.
00:26:19
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Okay. That's helpful. I think it's helpful for the listeners because it's like, it's a lot so atrocious. Oh, this isn't true. I promise you. We have it. I mean, go to my website. Okay. Yeah. We gotta keep going. So this is so good. Yeah. So, so anyways, back to like going back over. So I find out you can buy him. Yeah. He tells me what I just discussed with you. Yeah. And so like doing the math, like, wait a second. That's cheap.
00:26:42
Speaker
Now, I'm also not making any money at this point, right? That presents a problem, but I do have a credit card. And so he sends me pictures, like I'm like, I wanna see proof of this. So he's sending me pictures and videos and all that stuff. I'm working out and I'm bawling. People think I'm having a midlife crisis at Anytime Fitness. And God wrecked my heart for these people. I don't know him. So I just started, I sent a bunch of money over there. So I had $12,000 on my credit card.
00:27:10
Speaker
but I couldn't not do it, I just had to do it. My wife didn't even know about it. It was one of those things. Here's the money, just here's the money. How many can we get? So I called somebody I know, hey, when I get back I might have to sell my truck, I might, whatever. Because I just freed a whole bunch of Pakistanians. So I sent them the money, but I went there to see, okay. You just freed 40 people.
00:27:31
Speaker
So, but I wanted to go see, is this real? So I'm gonna go, well, in 12,000, that also includes plane ticket and stuff. So I don't remember the exact, it might've been like 2,700 bucks, sorry, 27 people, maybe on my first trip or something along those lines. Because you had some expenses to go over there. So anyways, two or three days before I go, a church comes to me and they're like, hey, we wanna take up an offering for you. And the pastor, I love him to death. And the gist of it was they're like, he's like, can I take an offer? I said, yeah. And he's like, so where are you going?
00:28:00
Speaker
Can't tell you. What are you doing? Can't tell you that either. So he gets up in front of the church, says Brandon's going somewhere, can't tell you where, and I don't even know what he's doing, but I feel like we're supposed to take an offering. They take an offering, he said, anything you give us, we're gonna write him a check.
00:28:14
Speaker
I got a check two days before for 12,001 and God was just like, are you gonna trust me or not? So I go over there now with a ton of faith. I don't know anybody. I've talked to this Simon guy on WhatsApp a couple of times. I hop on a plane. Which doesn't know English very well. Simon does. Okay, he does. The guy that wrote me initially does. And none of the rest of the team does. Get on a plane. I land in Qatar. In that very day, their prime minister gets kicked out of office.
00:28:43
Speaker
And so I'm like, so I'm getting texts on my phone like turn around, you know, don't go. Yeah. And so I'm like, well, I'm already here. So I'm thinking I'm in guitar airport. And if anybody's ever been there, it's like this airport's like there's you can buy gold and it's beautiful. It smells great. Like the bathrooms are nice. It's nicer than any American airport I've ever been to.
00:29:00
Speaker
So I'm like, hey, it's not bad over here at all. We're good. OK, fast forward. I now land in Pakistan. Everybody shrinks. So I'm like a foot taller than everybody. I got tattoos. I got, you know, I stand out. Yeah. And so granted, the day before, the prime minister got kicked out of office. Yeah. So I land, and I'm trying to like, I'm walking up high, and I'm shrinking. Right. I'm the only American, for sure, in the airport. I'm the only white person. I mean, everyone else has a different shade than me. It's not like I blend in.
00:29:29
Speaker
And I walk off and this, this military guy goes, come over here. And I was like, I just got off the plane. This is crazy. So I go over and I'm going to tell this joke. This isn't a political thing, but it's funny. This is literally what happened. And so I get out the plane and he goes, are you here to overthrow our government?
00:29:47
Speaker
And I'm like, what the heck is happening? You called over here and now you're gonna get arrested? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Pakistan? This is crazy. And I said, I know I'm here to visit a friend. Where's your friend live?
Emotional Impact of Freeing Slaves
00:30:02
Speaker
I don't know how to say the city.
00:30:04
Speaker
How do you know him? I met him on Facebook. Like this story sounds crazy. You're hearing your story like this isn't good. This isn't great. So literally he looks at me again and he goes, our prime minister has kicked out of office. Are you here to overthrow our government or not? And now two other, three other military guys are getting closer. They're not like pointing guns at me or anything, but I'm sitting here going, this feels a little weird. Yeah. And so I thought to myself this.
00:30:28
Speaker
If God really called me here, and I'm pretty sure He did, then I don't have to be someone that I'm not. I don't have to be other people that I've seen in ministry. I don't have to do... I need to be branded. And I like to joke around a lot. And so, you know what? I'm gonna say something. So I'm gonna say, I'm gonna be branded in this moment, and not anyone that I've read a book about. And so I said,
00:30:49
Speaker
No, I'm not here to overthrow the government. I said, honestly, if I was, I wouldn't be working for Biden. I don't think he's a great president. And he looks at me and he scowls and I said, I didn't vote for him. I voted for the other guy. Okay. And he goes, and he looks around and he goes, we don't like him either. And I was like,
00:31:08
Speaker
Wait, what? Yes. And he goes, we don't like him either. And I was like, and he looks at me and he goes, oh, you are going to love Pakistan. Have a great time. And just lets me go. Shut up. That was it. And so I walk into the country, and then that night,
00:31:23
Speaker
I'm in a van with 10 people with AK-47s. None of them speak English except Simon. You've got to be thinking like this is crazy. This is the craziest thing in the world. And this is your life. Like this is real. Pinch me. Yes. And this, the joke is over there that the team is like, man, you always know where everything is. You know landmarks. Yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
Because when they were taking me out in the middle of nowhere, I'm trying to remember streets, bridges. Oh, yeah. Because I thought it was going to get taken. Right. It wasn't like I had a great memory. I was literally thinking, fighting for your life. I'm an idiot for doing this. Right. We've got a backpack full of cash. And if anyone's ever seen a Western. Yes.
00:32:01
Speaker
If anyone's ever seen a Western, you got the rows of like the main street thing with the tumbly. And there's a picnic table, a plastic like looking picnic table in the middle with some Pakistani men sitting at it that don't look very nice. And we literally are in the middle of nowhere. There's no lights, there's no nothing. I mean, it's, I don't even, it's crazy. Everyone gets out of the truck or the van and they say, stay here. And so they go up and they start exchanging the cash and I'm thinking,
00:32:31
Speaker
Am I getting sold? I don't know. So finally, they get the deal. We have the contracts, and we can get into that later, but there's contracts that get basically, and then we file them with the government. Paper trails. Yep, all that stuff.
00:32:41
Speaker
which is honestly kind of refreshing. Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah. It's like a, I tell people, it's almost like when you go buy a car, you get a title, right? It's the same type of thing. Right. And so like, and then once we turn them into the government and we found there, they get issued Pakistani security, uh, social security numbers. So I become people at that point. Wow. So anyways, the, the owner son wants to meet with me because he's probably never been an American. So he walks over and they're like, you know, Hey, he wants to, you know, talk to you. And so we started talking and I shake his hand and he says, does your government know you're here? And I was like,
00:33:12
Speaker
What do I, what do I do here? So I said, cause we're kind of an uncharted territory at this point. Yeah. Bin Laden was like two hours away from here. We're not in Kansas anymore. Yeah. You know? And so I said, yeah, there's actually a drone above me right now. Cause our for sure. And they all look up and they're like, looking in the sky. And I said, it's so happy. You'll never see it. Listen,
00:33:32
Speaker
You can't see it. Yeah. So just trust me. Yes. My God is looking out for me. And they're all like, this is all you've got to draw, you know, like they're acting crazy. So we get back to the van and Simon goes, you have a drone watching you? I was like, no, no, but they don't need to know that. So that's literally that's the first trip to, you know, like.
00:33:49
Speaker
I see it, God wrecks my heart for it, and then I've just never been the same since. The fact that they know the process of this is pretty fascinating, actually, Simon. Yeah. Because then probably the next day you had to go do the deal. Yep. And then did you get a witness who they let go? Yeah.
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, so I have a video of it. It's imprinted in my memory, the first family we ever set free. Now, we tell them now ahead of time, we're getting well enough known that we don't want anything bad to happen to them and stuff. But that first trip, it was all surprise. Oh, I bet. So none of them know what's happening. We tell them, oh, by the way, we have a van here. Here's some more. And we're going to take you.
00:34:28
Speaker
and we're gonna set you up, so this guy's crying, I hug him in this video that I have on Instagram and stuff,
Sustaining Freedom: Education and Legal Support
00:34:34
Speaker
and it was just the coolest moment, and so people are like, you know, is it sad? I said, yeah, it's sad. I mean, they get beaten, raped, killed, burned a lot, I mean, you name it, right? But one of the saddest things was they've never had hope.
00:34:45
Speaker
Right. They've never seen you when they set free. Right. They didn't even know what had existed. No, this is their life, which is kind of honestly a gift. Yeah. They don't know what it's like. If you think about it, which is so sad to say that. So we're doing like, we're sending these people free and imagine for, you know, as far as you can see, it's like brick kilns and people. And so like a hundred and some people start watching closer and closer and closer. They think they're next. Oh, Brandon.
00:35:13
Speaker
So what I always tell people is the saddest part was seeing a group of people have hope for the first time. And then not being able to help them. Right. So I literally went through every single person. I shook their hand, like letting them know I see you. But yeah, I mean, there's four and a half million. Like what are you gonna do? So you have to just do what you can. And then the other part is then I go shake a slave owner or manager's hand, knowing the stories and knowing what they do. Right. Thank you so much.
00:35:43
Speaker
Appreciate you for letting me on your property now. They have to legally but they can put up a bigger fight And so it's like because God loves them, right? Just as much as he loves me, right? And so and all they're doing is what they've grown up. They don't know anything. So doing it's a really like Interesting you become almost callous to the things that you see because there's no other really way to deal with it 100%
00:36:05
Speaker
And so that's literally like, that's from start to finish. That's how, you know, that's kind of how this all started. Dude, if, if the listeners are not like turning their volume up to a hundred percent, I don't know what else to do here. Okay. So that's where you and I hung out. Okay. Yeah. Then you were like, and I'm going back and it was like two weeks from the time we went golfing. Okay. So tell me about that trip.
00:36:27
Speaker
So, I mean, well, there's been quite a few now. Um, I, I probably met you halfway through. So maybe I'd done one or two trips maybe, and now four, maybe. Okay. So you've gone twice over there since we've hung out. When did we hang out? I felt like it was only like a couple of months ago. So then I've only been one. I feel like that. Okay. One then. Um, yeah, I mean, so here's the weird thing is like the government's been amazing to work with. Wow.
00:36:53
Speaker
They, I can't, I can't criticize. I mean, not like everybody's bending over backwards to help us, but we've encountered no trouble because there are laws to set these people free, but you know, no one has the money. How are you going to do that? Right. And so they've been honestly really good to us.
00:37:09
Speaker
And so everything that we do continues to get bigger. We continue to refine, you know, so basically, I mean, there's a ton of things that we do, but what I, what I've boiled it down to is we set people free. That's going to be the heartbeat of what we do forever. Right. So, and we take care of them for six months. We also have a school, so it's maxed out. We have 250 kids at our school teach every single day, um, because.
00:37:33
Speaker
they don't know how to read and write. And if you give them an education, things change. And then we also have a church. And so our church has, I don't know, somewhere between like probably four or 500 people that go to it. Unbelievable. Those are like the three kind of funnels, but we do crusade. I mean, they had a really big flood. So the first year, so 2022, most people don't know this. Pakistan is a country of roughly 220 million people. Like something like 60% of their country was covered with water.
00:38:00
Speaker
Like you could see it from space, it was huge. We ended up handing out 90,000 meals or something during that. We did, we saved like a thousand people off rooftops. We had a tent city, provided medical, like all this crazy stuff. And it's like these random connections that just always happen. And so like last, we did a Christmas crusade last year with 10,000 people. So like we've preached to, I mean,
00:38:22
Speaker
I don't even know 30, 40,000 people probably giving people hope in two different directions. Yeah. Right. And we do it sometimes in services. I mean, our smallest, I mean, we might go to a brick kiln, right? 50 people at it. Fine. Or we might do a service with 10,000.
00:38:37
Speaker
on anything in between. Okay, so who's boots on the ground for Exodus 5.1? So we've got like, I don't know, probably, I would say 70, 80 people that are all volunteer that work all the time. So when we do a crusade, they set up, they clean it, they get the site ready, they prepare. Anytime we do a service, I want to feed the slaves. And so that's important to us.
00:39:02
Speaker
The other piece is we've probably got, I would say like eight to 10 people that are like leadership, taking over things. And then the rest of the people will help handle security, do whatever. And it's the people that are, it's like our church, our church community over there does pretty much everything.
00:39:21
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So what's the one, okay. I'm sure the listeners are like, okay, how do we, how could they contribute to this if they want it financially? So one thing I'll say, and I always forget to talk about this, though, I always get asked this all the time. So knowing that they didn't choose this life, the second thing is, well, can't the slave owner come and get them again? Or, you know, I always get that. Right.
00:39:42
Speaker
There are very strict laws. We've done court cases now. We've won every single court case. And it has nothing to do with this. But I just want to say the laws are very strict. And if any slave owner even touched someone, they'd go to prison. They can't. And these people have never known freedom.
00:39:58
Speaker
They're not going to go borrow money from anybody. Oh, yeah. They know how that goes. Yes. And so they're never so far. We've never encountered anybody that even needed money from us after this. Well, I think this is interesting because there's only one family that you've encountered that has gone into back into slavery. Like that says something and it wasn't their fault. Right. It was the grandfathers. Right. So it's not like they're charging a credit card. It's not like in everything we've ever seen is it's typically related to hospital stuff.
00:40:26
Speaker
Ah. Because they don't have a bank that they can go to borrow money. They don't have health care. Right. So they have to go pay for the surgery. And that the debt doesn't go away when you're dead, which is a whole different. Correct. So that's really it. So in terms of giving, so.
00:40:37
Speaker
We're going to come out with a new website this year, which is super cool. I'm bootstrapping this thing. I'm trying to keep it cost low so everything can just go over there, right? So you can keep freeing slaves. So literally, we're going to come out with a new website, all that type of stuff. But there's a giving platform on the website. So you can give electronically. There's a PO box on there. What's the website, Exodus51? Exodus51.org.
00:40:56
Speaker
Okay. And then Exodus and then the number five, number one.org.
Expansion Plans for Exodus 5-1
00:41:00
Speaker
Yep. Okay. And then, um, you know, we have a PO box. So I have people, they're like, Hey, we don't really feel comfortable. I was like, yep, we accept checks and stuff. So those, you know, that's really what it is. And then, so now we've got like, you know, just kind of wrap it up, like dream wise, um, we're getting ready and we're kind of talking about a documentary. So we took a documentary filmmaker over there. That's what we were talking about last time. So we've, we kind of are figuring out what does this look like? Who do we want to work with? Um,
00:41:26
Speaker
the story everyone hears is like, this is crazy. So it's like, what does this look like? Get the information out. So we're trying to figure out the next process of that. And then the second piece is, this next year, the goal is, we want to build, or at least purchase land and build a new campus.
00:41:42
Speaker
the idea being our church and everything's maxed out. And what we do is these places they live, we rent places all around the city. So my thought process was, it's like, man, it'd be really cool to have a site and we build a 1200 person church.
00:41:57
Speaker
1200 person school. And then we have whatever, a hundred, 200 homes on site that instead of having to go rent all the time around the city, it's there. And we know where they're at. They can help us. And then we pioneer that concept. And my goal would be, cause it's really hard to get land there. It's expensive. It's really, so it's super cheap for everything else. But imagine this imagine. So United States is what three 30 or something. I don't know around there, 330 million. Okay.
00:42:23
Speaker
Imagine 220 million people in the size of like Texas and Oklahoma. Right, right, right. So just lands very expensive. And so, but my goal would be like.
00:42:33
Speaker
if we can pioneer this, if we can do wells for water and stuff. And I told him, everyone gets access to clean water. It's 98% Muslim there. So I talked to an e-mom and he said, who would have access to the water? I said, the city. Everybody. Everybody. Everybody deserves to have clean water. So I want to be like this point in the city where everybody's like, that's where I wanna go. We can clean water. Yes. And then my thought process is, if we can get this done, then there's gonna be other cities that say, hey, if we give you land,
00:43:01
Speaker
would you come and build this here? And my thought process is like, man, if you can interject hope and if you can love honest portion of the city, that changes everything. Teaching them to like, there's trash everywhere. So, you know what we're gonna do? We'll pick a street around us and we'll start making like circles around it. This year, we're gonna go one block out.
00:43:20
Speaker
So businesses, hey, can we paint the outside of your business? Can we, can we clean up this and show them what taking pride looks like in your city? That's how you like change things. And we just change a portion at a time. And I think as long as we're serving everybody, because it'd be cool to see that ripple effect. Yes. Truly ripple effect of like, Oh, the people there. Oh, I'm not kidding you. The people there are amazing.
00:43:43
Speaker
Everybody's like, Oh, I wouldn't know people there are amazing. The, the Muslims that we have met are amazing. Like I'm telling you right now that it's been a shocking realization. Wow. And I look at it as like, this could be like what South Korea was back in the day.
00:44:00
Speaker
They have amazing leather like they have amazing production capabilities, but it's like they have a huge port city There's all these things where Pakistan could just leap forward but because of this yes It's positioned that way, but you have to get people to take pride in it right right you've got to do that So who knows what's gonna happen right? I never thought I'd be doing this right things could change, but I
00:44:23
Speaker
The goal was, so we did 303 people in 2022.
Future Vision: Ending Slavery in Pakistan and Beyond
00:44:28
Speaker
1599 at this point. So I said, I said, man, if we could do a thousand people by the end of 2023, that would be crazy. There's no way we could get to them. We literally three or four weeks ago because of a court case. And I can't like talk about what we're doing. Right. We set free 546 people in one week.
00:44:54
Speaker
Holy cow. I'm just saying it's ramping up very quickly. Four million is really what you're going after. Four and a half or whatever it is.
00:45:07
Speaker
I really believe we're gonna see it. I don't think we'll buy them all. I think we're actually gonna change the laws there. Here's the crazy part. If you go down to India, they own Muslims. They do the same thing. Go up to China, they own people. Go to the Congo, all of our batteries have cobalt in them.
00:45:25
Speaker
They own those people. Yeah. So there's slaves everywhere. My fundamental belief, I don't care if they're Muslims, I don't care at all. At some point let's, if we get all the ones freed because they're only owned because they're Christian. Muslims can't own another Muslim. Oh, interesting. So that's a different wrinkle. But then you go to India, they own Muslims. Right. So I was like, how cool would it be if we said everyone free here and we go to India and we set all the Muslim free to show I'm not doing this because they're Christian. I'm doing this because you don't deserve to own a person.
00:45:53
Speaker
That's not on the table. And when people see that, my faith causes me to fight for humanity, but it's not like I'm just choosing them. I literally go watch the Ten Commandments, the stomping on the mud, that's what it is every single day. They do not deserve to be treated like property. That surpasses anything of people's beliefs.
00:46:20
Speaker
It's human. The community doesn't deserve it. That's it. No matter where you live, you should not be owned. So anyway, so I think it'd be super cool. Which could be a really cool resume builder. You know, just to go back into... Not to say it like that, but like truly like, no, I don't care who they are, Muslim, Christian, whatever, because I think you could get resistance because like you're only going after Christian. I'm going after human life.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah. Right. It just happens where we're planted. Yeah. So we've freed some Hindus. There's on like, as you get closer to like India, there's some Hindus and stuff like that. But the gist of it is if someone's owned, we're going to go after them. We're going to go after them. And right now this is where the team's at. Oh, that's so good. Like who knows what it'll be. But it's like, I never thought I'd be doing this. Right. Like, so who knows what will happen? Who knows? Like, right. What God will have you go to. It's uncommon. That's all I know. That's
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:47:10
Speaker
what I'm talking about.
00:47:10
Speaker
Welcome to the show. Well, you can see why I wanted you on the show. Thanks for your enthusiasm. Thank you for being a voice for the underdog. I think I'll say that. Dude, you're inspiration for sure. Super uncommon. I love the path you're on. I love the path that God has you on. And if there's any way we can help, I'd be happy to do so. So you've been listening to the Uncommon Wealth podcast. I've been your host, Philip Ramsey. Until next time, go get passionate.
00:47:37
Speaker
Impact the kingdom, go impact somebody. I guarantee you it's going to change your life. Have a great day. That's all for this episode brought to you by Uncommon Wealth Partners. Be sure to visit uncommonwealth.com to learn more about our services. Don't miss an episode as we introduce you to inspiring people who are actively pursuing an uncommon life.