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A Life In Ruins Anniversary - Ep 22
306 Plays6 years ago
Our first two episodes released on May 13th, 2019. Since that time we've released 21 episodes and have become one of the most popular podcasts on the APN. In this episode, we talk about our utter amazement to not having been forced off-air, how the podcast came to be, and how each of the hosts was inspired to become archaeologists. We would like to thank our listeners and followers for all of their support and look forward to another year of A Life In Ruins Podcast.
Contact
- Email: alifeinruinspodcast@gmail.com
- Instagram: @alifeinruinspodcast
- Facebook: @alifeinruinspodcast
- Twitter: @alifeinruinspod
- Website: www.alifeinruins.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 22
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. Welcome to episode 22 of A Life in Ruins Podcast, where we investigate the careers of those living in a life in ruins. I'm your host, Carlton Gover, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, Connor Johnen and David Ian Howe. Hey, guys, do you know what this episode is?
00:00:33
Speaker
No, is it a prime number? I don't, I don't really understand numbers.
One Year Anniversary Reflections
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah. See, there you go. Oh, is it this, is this the thousandth year anniversary of someone getting straight murdered in the archeological record?
00:01:01
Speaker
Well, uh, possibly. I mean, I imagine it is not a two day call. I have no idea what it is. Uh, no, actually today, this episode will come out, uh, almost a little after a year of our first episodes premiering on the archeology podcast network. Oh.
00:01:25
Speaker
Wow. We made it a full year. Who would have thought? Yeah, who would have thought? We didn't get fired. We didn't get shut down. China didn't ban us. Hashtag free Winnie the Pooh.
00:01:40
Speaker
Wait, why free him? Isn't he in prison in China? I thought that was the big deal, that he's locked up in a labor camp. No, it's that Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh, and he's pissed off that people compare him to Winnie the Pooh, and now you just said hashtag free Winnie the Pooh. Oh boy. In which case they're probably reinstated though, so we're good.
00:02:05
Speaker
a whole fucking year. Yeah. We haven't had a cease and desist from our, uh, our normal people. We hate Jane Goodall. Um, as re as re hasn't shut us down. We're probably going to get a letter from her soon. 22 episodes. This is our 22nd episode. We've done 22 episodes in a year. Jesus.
00:02:33
Speaker
We've covered a lot. That's 22 hours. That's too short of double. I mean, but that's not even counting the Instagram, the meetings. We've done God knows how many grad students we have with whatever Bernie Taylor is on the show. Interviewed, not done.
Guest Announcement: Robert L. Kelly
00:02:56
Speaker
We've been doing God knows how many in a finite amount. There's 22 of them. So we can break this down.
00:03:03
Speaker
I mean, you know, when we first started this and we were talking with our now producer, Chris Webster, you know, he wanted to make sure we could at least do 10 episodes. And, God, this is our 22nd. We have six more already booked into, I don't even, I think our earliest opening is in September now for a slot.
00:03:32
Speaker
You're forgetting or, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point. And not that you're, you're not forgetting anything to add to that. We also got the interest of a very special party. Very special. So can, can we say it? Can we announce it? I mean, it's not Megan Fox. So like, whatever we say now is just going to be a low blow.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yes, it's not Megan Fox, it's not Giorgio Succolos. No, I do know her agent. I have, we email. No one. Oh, we're getting the world-renowned archaeologist and wizard Robert L. Kelly on the podcast and wizard.
00:04:23
Speaker
Not only are we getting him, he asked to be on. Well, I don't know if he, I don't know if he didn't like asked it. Like he said, when are you having me on the podcast? He said, when are you guys going to interview me?
Podcast Journey and Future Plans
00:04:40
Speaker
Exactly. That's we made it like that. Well, that was the moment. Like that was like, okay, we got Bob's, we got Bob's blessing.
00:04:51
Speaker
Very true. Yeah. It's beautiful thing. I mean, I hope so. I mean, we've marketed the fifth beginning. God knows how many times. Like every podcast I've ever done. Let's talk about this. I think it's the second beginning. I can't remember. I haven't read it. I actually haven't finished it. It's like a three page book too.
00:05:12
Speaker
That is the only book my parents have read. They haven't even read my thesis, but they've read Bob's book. They know his stuff. They don't know mine. Did I tell you guys at the time I went to Bob's house to pick, I think I was picking up a deer hide, which I never tanned for him. That's why he hates me. But I went to pick it up and I was like, hey, I'm almost done with your book. And he was like, David,
00:05:42
Speaker
It's meant to be red cover to cover on an airplane. It's like, well, you know, I can't read, so bear with me. Well, uh, do we just want to like kind of reflect on this whole, I mean, it's the show started off as.
00:06:09
Speaker
just like text messages of me trying to convince you guys to be on. Then it was like three months of prep. We have like three or four episodes we never released. And they're just like drafts that public will never hear in their lifetime. We have an Instagram channel. We have a website which we need to develop. It's just sitting there unpublished. We have a website. We've gone through Fiverr artists left and right. We have YouTube content.
00:06:38
Speaker
We need to stop doing Fiverr. I got sent over by the last one to make that YouTube stuff. And I'm not happy about it. Like it was okay. But then I was like, Hey guys, just how much did the cost of David's like, what? I could do that. I was just like, well, fuck, there's $200 down the drain. Okay. Let me try.
00:07:04
Speaker
Oh man. And we did the math the other day, which, and we won't give you exact numbers, but the amount of money we've put into this podcast is kind of, it's a little, a little scary and a little daunting. It's all negatives because we haven't gotten a single penny from any of this. Like it's, it's, we're just dumping money away without any return, which is, I mean, there's a reason why we don't have a Patreon or a GoFundMe. It's like, you know, we wanted to do this and now we're here.
00:07:34
Speaker
Now we're here. I'm super grateful for both of you for being on and doing this fucking show and dealing with my lunacy. And, you know, the start off is I know David had heard me talk about podcasts since I got to the University of Wyoming. Oh, yeah.
00:07:57
Speaker
and no one believed in it. Even all of our friends at archaeology thought we were morons for doing this and all of them are clamoring to be on and be featured. What did the asterisk on podcast back four years ago? But yes, you did have this idea four years ago. It was different. There was going to be an inebriated archaeology
Challenges and Inspirations
00:08:22
Speaker
and we just got drunk as hell and
00:08:24
Speaker
What do you guys think about, um, just getting Jason Chewie on the podcast and just like, he eats spicy wings talking about cuisines. We just throw it on YouTube. I was like, no, why? Who would watch that?
00:08:42
Speaker
I was really deep in the hot ones. And I was like, you know what, just getting Jason to you on asking questions about cuisine and the archeological record and having them sweat over some hot rings. The other crazier one was having Melissa Murphy on to talk about like bio arc with like a giant table of operation that was like hooked up to a car battery. That one was like far more outlandish.
00:09:10
Speaker
Sorry. Um, there was like one hour a day, like not supposed to eat and it's like this hour, but hey, um, two things at once. Uh, yeah. But now that we have like a cult following and like some groupies and shit, um,
00:09:27
Speaker
Now we can do that stuff and like we have people that would be into it. And that's just how we can hype up and be like, yo, donate 20 bucks and like watch Melissa Murphy fucking shock herself playing operation. She wouldn't be down with that. Melissa Murphy is a classy, wonderful woman. We need to get, you know who'd be down for that? Connor. Yeah, I can't think of anyone who would be down for that. Connor, Connor would be down.
00:09:57
Speaker
It was just like, instead of, you know, like, you know, having tweezers, it's just like metal grill tongs. Oh, yeah. Laura can't even do it. Oh, she absolutely would. I haven't. Yeah. Oh, God. Anyway, no one knows who those people are. So we need to just stop doing it.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, so no whole year of doing this. What other iteration iterations? I mean, that was kind of yeah. Was that your does your main big ones? YouTube, I think Dr. Eric Robinson are interviewing soon, like the next episode. His idea was to is was for me to go down to Colorado with the professor, get stoned to shit in high altitude and talk about like high altitude archeology while being high.
00:10:54
Speaker
And we would have just, I would have just died because a like, you know, I don't do that, which is, you know, teach their own, but there's just been, it was just been fucking miserable. So, I mean, there was like little stuff like that here and there, but it was just mostly kind of fun bar talk. And, you know, I think, uh, I think a big thing to talk about is as, as we started this podcast, like our friends didn't take us seriously. No.
00:11:21
Speaker
Everyone, I wouldn't say doubted, but I remember a lot of people were telling about it. They were like, yeah, I don't want to be on. You guys do you. That's why a lot of our early episodes weren't anyone from Wyoming because we basically conned a bunch of people we didn't know into thinking that we were more legitimate than we really were.
00:11:43
Speaker
It's all about that letter. David's documentation and our letters and like how we conduct this, it's like, it's on point. And I know people who we do know and we send out like the official letter of notice and then the scripts, they're like, wait, you guys are serious about this. We're like, yeah, we don't just come on here and just shoot the shit. Like we, we have a plan.
Balancing Academia and Professional Work
00:12:07
Speaker
A lot of cousins. Oh, he got, yeah.
00:12:10
Speaker
I was going to say, Dr. Shane Miller, who we just had on the last show was like perplexed. Like it was like, is this, is this the podcast that I listened to? We just this like fancy ass letter. I was like, what, what is this? With watermarks and like fine print disclaimers on it.
00:12:34
Speaker
I think that's just like a testament that we're able like as everyone's mentioned before like when Chris was on for our new year's episode like how we have such rapport with each other that it feels so like informal yet stimulating and you know to for people who have known us in graduate school and like know our us in our personal lives they're just like can't even fathom that we have this level of administration behind us and like
00:13:02
Speaker
you know, professionalism. We take CV. Yeah. Like we all, yeah. Like yeah, on the, you know, we have, you know, everyone that we get, we get their CV and their ad, their resumes so we can build questions off of it. And, you know, so I mean, what, uh, I mean, what, what have you been your guys's takeaways since we started this over, over a year ago? Um,
00:13:32
Speaker
I don't know, Connor, here you go. So my biggest takeaway is, as everyone knows, is I spend most of my time kind of in this CRM world where I work as a professional and I'm kind of disconnected from the academic realm in those senses. I mean, you can consider them two different realms, but they overlap and
00:13:56
Speaker
and whatnot, but I was spending most of my time kind of in this professional realm, doing work, finishing projects sort of thing. And I miss this academic kind of fun kind of banter, you know, this, this
00:14:12
Speaker
this experience that I had in graduate school. We had talking beer, drinking anthropology. We had a club that we would discuss articles about. Have a beer and chat with some of your cohort, PhD students, whatever.
00:14:33
Speaker
Those are some of the fondest memories I have of college. This podcast gets me back into this academic realm, but also lets me enjoy those fun parts of it. I am so grateful to have you two be here, Carlton and David.
00:14:52
Speaker
allow for that hilarity, funniness and just downright ridiculousness that you guys create as part of this podcast and kind of exude. It's beautiful. Can I mention that after you left, you only had one of those like drinking, archeology, talking beer.
00:15:13
Speaker
And it was when that Holland paper came out about the sorority mastodon site. And we all went to your old house where David and Craver were living and discussing it. And David was on the chalkboard, was like, okay, when do humans migrate out of Africa? And like, try to go through it. And Spencer Pelton's like, yeah, man, like, you know, Steve Holland does good work. So, you know, I can see this like,
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's fine. And then he just started arguing with the rest of us, and we're all just shocked, staring at him, like, how can you think this is legit? And I don't think you did, but he just wanted to stir the pot. David's on there in the fucking chalkboard, drawing out Africa. He's like, OK, so wait. Heidelberg gets us, where were they? And everyone's just talking around. Eric Robinson's just yelling with Spencer. It was a fun night.
00:15:54
Speaker
See that was always a thing. Like I was always about when I went into grad school, I was always about like the collective whole of anthropology. You know, like the, what do we all think? What is like, what's the consensus? And like, what, what does the public think about this? And like, how do we, how do we spin it kind of thing? I'm not spinning. I don't want to say like, we're throwing a narrative, but like, I was just always curious to know like, how, how do, yeah, like how, how do we relay this information to the public and like,
00:16:22
Speaker
I'd have everyone come over and I was like, all right, let's do it. And I had like the whiteboard, like, I was like that. I remember, I mean, just like a vivid memory of you is when you were defending your thesis, I had forgotten you were defending that day and I texted you as like, Hey man, have you left Larry yet? I'm defending right now.
00:16:43
Speaker
Todd was like, are you ready to go? And I was like, uh, Carlton's not here yet. And he's like, I think we can start without him. And I was like, yeah, probably. Cause like the room was like full and I was like, yeah, like I'm not going to wait for girls. No offense. I got, I got there. I remember your jury, the bill, your presentation to open the door and someone said something. And I was like, yeah, I just told the Tyndarello I was with that I had a bail and just like went in and just like sat down to my seat and watched David's experiment.
00:17:11
Speaker
That was like one of my favorite days of my life was presenting that it was like super fun, mostly because it's like, it's just three years of like your life just finally done. You know, but, um, to answer your question before, I forgot what it was. Wait, Connor, where is it?
00:17:27
Speaker
I was just going to say, yeah, that release of getting it done, but he asked, um, you know, like, what, what do you, what, what do you think about, what do you, you know, what, how can you reflect on, you know, what's happened in the last year in this podcast? Oh, right. Um, it's interesting for me, we're going to a break. Oh.
Audience Interaction and Impact
00:18:01
Speaker
Good one, Connor. We'll be right back with segment two of A Life in Ruins, episode 22, our one-year podcast bursary to hear about what David thinks about this past year. So stay tuned, listen to these sweet silky Scottish
00:18:17
Speaker
to boil with, uh, these abs from time. Welcome back to segment two of episode 22 of a life and ruins podcast. Uh, we're here. It's just the boys for our podcast diversity episode. Yeah. So, uh, David, your big takeaway from this past year of being a prominent member of the life ruins podcast. Um,
00:18:42
Speaker
I don't really know because I had like a while to think about it on the break. Um, it's hard to say because I like ethno kind of like blew up at the same time. So like they kind of go in tandem for me, but like, I guess the takeaway from the podcast is just like,
00:19:07
Speaker
Well, you know what? I would say we got several people interested in archaeology and we got a lot of people from Ethno over to the podcast and a lot of people from the podcast over to Ethno.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I did notice like when I would post stories on ethno about like archaeology, like when I did like the questions, there would be a lot of stuff like about how do I do this as a career and things like that. And I'd see like overlap with the podcast and they'd be over on there too. Or like I heard you guys talking about on the podcast something about this. Can you explain that more if that makes sense? And like it was just the people are coming.
00:19:52
Speaker
between both avenues to talk. And either way, the goal of both of our creative outlets is working. We're getting people access to scientists that are helping the public. And definitely through our memes and the posts on our podcast, I'll see people commenting educated questions,
00:20:19
Speaker
comments about anthropology, archaeology, which is like something I like to see. So like people out there that I don't know are like commenting something like astute about Boaz. And I'm like, Oh, cool. You know, like, that's, that's, I like that a lot. So it's, yeah, so it's not, it's not that they're like, uh, intertwined, but they're, um, they're supporting each other in both ways. Cause your ethno account is kind of focusing
00:20:43
Speaker
Specifically on the dog, human dog relationship, but you can still answer some of those questions over there, but you also, so it like, yeah, for sure. Like someone from the pod, no, go ahead. Sorry, you go. Someone from the podcast said, I heard you mentioned, or I heard Carlton mentioned that you're a collections manager and they DM'd me on the ethno and said, can you tell me how you got there? Like, how do I do that?
00:21:14
Speaker
And I gave them the whole like, Jesus Christ, it's really hard. Um, but like that came, they heard that on the podcast, got introduced to ethno through that followed me. And then the reason they DM'd me about that was because I posted something about collections management on ethno that day. So like people are coming back and forth between the two and feel comfortable asking questions, you know?
00:21:38
Speaker
Can I just like go ahead and like recently I mentioned since the last time I recorded, like our podcast inspired bird, like there's a comic illustrator that listens to our podcast while she's doing her drawings. Yeah, that's cool, man. Can you tell us about that? Because I was kind of like out of it this week. Yeah. So I don't know why my mic levels are fucking sucking right now. I probably just need a new mic. Yeah. I'm like whispering into the mic for some reason.
00:22:08
Speaker
No, but you always come out solid. So as some people have seen on the Instagram, I've gotten into science communication and talking about archaeological content through comics, because it's a nice visual representation of what we do. And also because of how comics are structured, I have to be really specific about what I say, which helps me condense these complex narratives and simplify them.
00:22:33
Speaker
And I guess like a couple of weeks ago now, I posted a thing on my personal Instagram account at Pawnee Archaeologist about all these Scott McCloud books. And Scott McCloud is like a famous comic writer. And this illustrator, her name is Mariah, her Instagram is at Mariah B Story.
00:22:59
Speaker
messaged me with help. And I was like, oh, sweet. And she's like, yeah, by the way, this is my comic. It's Six Petal Pyramid. And honestly, I listen to you guys's podcast. You guys inspired me, and also Dig It with Raven, who we've had on the show, and Dr. Anderson, who we've had on the show. And she sent me this behind the scenes video of her doing a comic, and talking about me, David, and Connor, and how she listens to archaeological content, and how it inspired her to do this comic book, and this comic series.
00:23:29
Speaker
Um, and I was just like fucking blown away. We featured her on the Instagram and we, uh, we've commissioned her to do like a movie poster style thing. It's like me, David Connor, dig it with Raven. Um, Nadia archeology, Tosh, archeo, um, archeology gains and, uh, forgetting somebody.
00:23:51
Speaker
and Emilia. Emilia, so it's like a bunch of archeologists who are, I would say prominent in the social media sphere. Like we hired this girl to do like a movie poster of all of us in comic form. And like, honestly, that shit made my week to hear that like we inspired somebody, which is just like crazy. Cause like, I just treat this as like me and my two best bros.
Hosts' Personal Archaeology Journeys
00:24:20
Speaker
dorking about archaeology with some guests and The impact like I don't think I fully appreciated the impact we were having Yeah, but I think when we've we've kind of discussed this Is that we kind of want you know, I think we want to to be able to hit You know target these audiences that are kind of up and coming and you know
00:24:48
Speaker
the next age of archaeologists. That's definitely where we want some of our content to go. Just because we want those people to, you know, be inspired and, you know, do awesome, make these awesome comics or, you know, go to the Mississippi State. Shout out to Caleb Welch. We love you. We want those people. Caleb Welch. We want those people to digest this information like super
00:25:16
Speaker
So I, you know, I think it's always kind of been a goal with us and maybe it's just worked out like that. I don't know. I could be, I'm rambling a little bit, but you know, I think I'm, I'm, I'm glad to see that actually came to fruition. That's a good segue. Like actually, I don't even, I don't, I don't even know the answer to the question I have to ask, but like, Connor, what, why did you even become an archeologist? Oh shit.
00:25:48
Speaker
I was born in Washington, the state, and then moved to Bailey, Colorado when I was super young. I was always the dinosaur kid growing up, so I still have some of the books.
00:26:04
Speaker
I watched all those walking with dinosaurs and walking with the prehistoric beasts and shit. Um, and then those kind of evolution ones too. Um, so I was just like this huge fucking paleontologist nerd. Like I even made like a little like trifold brochure about how I was going to be an archeologist in like fourth grade. And yes, I didn't have any friends.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah, so I was always the dinosaur kid. I've always been interested in the past. And then I had some pretty epic experiences visiting Mesa Verde.
00:26:48
Speaker
visiting chicken pizza down in the Maya. Dr. Anderson would give me shit for my pronunciation, but Chichen Itza, something like that. Is that right?
00:27:06
Speaker
You got to, you got to put your tongue between your teeth and put the air come out the size or the fuck that instead. That was with the Nahua language. This is mine. Right. I'm being insensitive. Shit. Fuck me. Yeah. So they're both, they're both, uh, you know, as tech and languages, right? No, no. Mine is not a U2S tech. It's mine. Right. It's something. But, but we, we digress. We digress. Um, yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I visited those those sites and kind of got super interested in the past and it was like, OK, you know, this could be my cup of tea. You know, these people are building these crazy ass pyramids and just making this ornate artwork like where. And I really wanted to figure out where we come from as as humans. So I got sucked in to go into Colorado State University. Go Rams, fuck the buffs.
00:28:05
Speaker
Um, and did there, did my undergraduate in anthropology there. Um, and then, you know, did my field school and, you know, ultimately was sold. It was just, it just became my life. I piss off. Um, sorry, I thought I was muted. How long did it take you to get a job after you got your master's at Wyoming? Uh, I wasn't technically finished.
00:28:38
Speaker
I was all ABT, all but thesis. So I was in my final year classes when I got my job. So I got lucky. Just a go-getter over here.
00:28:50
Speaker
You worked your ass off, man. I lived with Connor. I don't know if you guys know this, but like he'd get home and you just work on his computer. And I remember you, like, I remember you at least like looking for jobs really hard. Um, and you like, I was stressing out about the interview and then you just like went and got it. And you're like, I got the job. I'm moving. And I was like, well, good for you. Yeah, I got even finished yet. Well, it's not the, you know, I'm, isn't it the same with you though, mister, mister, mister at now?
00:29:20
Speaker
I feel like that was also, you know, kind of segway to shit. Okay. Um, but yeah, yeah, I just got lucky. Um, so Carlton, you know, I think I should know this answer to this question, but you know, what's, what's your story? What's your, what's your background? Can we ask David first? I'm like, actually genuinely curious. So they also don't know that answer either. Okay.
00:29:50
Speaker
David, go. You guys, you guys know. I don't know, dude. I just like, yeah, I don't know. Like, I mean, I'm, I'm the youngest out of the UW crew. Like Connor was gone before I started. David was the cohort before me and I was just a random assed Virginia frat bro with native American heritage. It just kind of showed up. I guess, man, like,
00:30:18
Speaker
I grew up on Long Island, everyone knows that. And then I watched a lot of Bill Nye, I watched a lot of History Channel, Discovery Channel, CERO, and I was always really into that. I would read those picture books that were like Encyclopedia of the Ancient World, like Encyclopedia of the Ancient Greece. I forget what company makes those, but I was addicted to them.
00:30:42
Speaker
I'd read them all the time, and I could just spout off facts. And then we would go into the city and go to the Museum of Natural History all the time, check out the dinosaurs. I'd go for my birthday. We'd go on weekends all the time, field trips and stuff. I was just always really into it. I loved archaeology. And then I went to college for history.
00:31:04
Speaker
And then I was like, it's a lot of reading and I like can't read. So, um, and then a lot of writing papers, which like, I enjoy, I enjoy writing. And then, but then I took anthropology class and I was like, whoa, okay, this is human evolution. So science check.
00:31:21
Speaker
This is Primates. I love Primates. Check. Like this is Steve Irwin, Django and all stuff. And then season desist, order check. And then, um, it was a call back to the beginning of the episode. Cool. And then, uh, what else was there? Archaeology, you know, check and cultural. And then we got the first episode, first episode, first class, we got to watch Dave Chappelle and we're talking about how like his blind white supremacist skit was, you know, cultural anthropology at his finest. And I was like, you know what? He like is.
00:31:50
Speaker
and like I was sold. And then I went to, I transferred, that was UT to Chattanooga, transferred to UT Knoxville and did a working at Topper with David G. Anderson. And then went to Wyoming, where I met Shane at UT, went to Wyoming and yeah, then now I'm here. So I just, I always had an interest in that public aspect of it. And Shane and I kind of touched on this last week, but like,
00:32:21
Speaker
Topper always was very big on having volunteers and they had a huge volunteer component. And like half the people there were like really good volunteers. Like they could dig. They taught me how to dig. Like they were really good at it. Um, just like kind of laprel or hell gap. Um, so like part of my experience learning how to dig and how to do field archeology was also learning.
00:32:45
Speaker
how to interact with the public and how to teach archaeology on tours and things like that. So that, this kind of shaped how, where I am now. So yeah, that's where I'm at. And then Carlton, I,
00:32:58
Speaker
All I know is you were in a fret. Well, I mean, I think this might go into the next session, but like, I actually have like two, two like kind of prominent questions for you guys. Like, I guess, David, what has been the most like profound moment that you've had being an archaeologist, either like research wise or in the field? Wait, was that to me? Yeah. You first and then Connor.
00:33:28
Speaker
profound moment, um, or memorable experience, I guess, uh, memorable experience. I would say probably finding or not me finding it, but just like the, the field, like the field crew finding the fucking, the Clovis point at the prowl.
00:33:52
Speaker
Um, yeah, that I think I've talked about that. I mean, just in terms of like going out there to find what you're looking for, like in everyone being like, yo, and like celebrating it, but field experience, like in terms of like, just having a great time all around my first season at topper. That's where I met Ryan and Kelsey.
00:34:16
Speaker
Um, just got introduced to archeology and that's the, so here's the other thing, I was like super shy, did not talk to anybody, had really bad social anxiety. Like it's just weird because then I do, I was like public stuff. I couldn't talk to anybody like other than my friends in college. Um, and then I like on a whim was like, you know, I'll do this field school thing. It was like an impromptu, like a, a week long spring break field school at topper. And I was like, I'll do it. Um, cause I wanted to try it.
00:34:45
Speaker
and I went out and had like the best week of my life like doing this like stuff with and all these people that were like into the same stuff as me and they were all had like the same kind of like life views as me same political views and I was like whoa like this is so cool and like you're outside like digging holes and like that's when I was like okay this is what I want to do and like I'm still like best friends with them now I'd say that's like profound ish what about you Connor?
00:35:11
Speaker
Um, you know, I definitely, I would agree with you same, um, with the field school, you know, that was one of those moments that you, you'll have those friends for probably the rest of your life. Um, just because the experiences, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You go through the ups and downs of being outside. Um,
00:35:30
Speaker
But one of the eye-opening things that I, and this is gonna be quick, is I just found, or I was with a group of people who found these 10,000 year old or around there, that's what they think they are, projectile points in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming, like in the mountains, in the back country. So it's just like this,
00:35:52
Speaker
This insane not realizing that Native Americans were living all across everywhere almost every environment in the US that just like Blew my mind even at like 10,000 years ago. I just couldn't I couldn't handle it That's dope
00:36:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's dope. And I guess like on, on that note, um, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap up this segment. Uh, we'll be back with a segment three of more of a life in rooms podcast episode 22, our podcast
Carlton's Academic and Cultural Influence
00:36:24
Speaker
first three. So, uh, stay tuned and enjoy these awesome, awesome ads from our sponsors.
00:36:31
Speaker
Welcome back to episode 22 of a life in ruins podcast. We are in segment three of the anniversary show. Um, we ended that last segment asking, um, Carlton asked us a question about like, what was your most profound and kind of.
00:36:54
Speaker
important moment or exciting moment you had in archaeology. And we want to reverse that question back to him. So Carlton, what's a scoop? Yeah. Do you guys also want to know like how I got into archaeology and all that jazz?
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah. Give us the origin story. Okay. The origin story. Okay. Um, I mean, I guess like it all, it all started when I was probably in high school. Um, I was with my dad and younger brother and my dad's like 2004 Bay's, uh, Bay's Jeep, uh, not Jeep Liberty, not the Wrangler. What's that other one? It all began in 1993 when I was. What was it called?
00:37:37
Speaker
Anyway, we ran Cherokee, and we were driving back from the Wind River Reservation to a Crow agency where my dad lived at the time, and it was like a summer, and we used to hang out with him. And we're on I-90 going north, and I asked my dad, hey dad, where did the Pawnee come from?
00:38:01
Speaker
Um, he was just like, Oh, I, you know, we're asked to, we're related to the Aztecs. And the way he explained it was like, you know, the pond, the Skeetie Pawnee, which is what I am, are the only us continental tribe that practice human ritual sacrifice. And, uh, there was that correlation of human rich, I know human ritual sacrifice between the Pawnee and the Aztecs was like Aztecs. I was just like, cool, fun fact. Everyone knew the Aztecs, blah, blah, blah.
00:38:26
Speaker
Well, I originally after high school joined the Marine Corps and that didn't work out. So I went to community college and I was I was basically going to get a history degree and basically be a high school football coach who also taught history. But I took this like historical archaeology class with Dr. David Clark, who also was a professor at Catholic University and taught at the community college because he had more fun. And when he found out that I was Pawnee, he pulled me aside after class.
00:38:54
Speaker
And it was like, Hey, um, you know, with your background, you should be an archeologist. We need more indigenous people in the field. And like, he really pushed me. Like, so like, it was really, I had a professor that was interested in me and wanted me to do well. And he kind of guided me. Like he took me under his wing and helped me out. Cause I was a shitty student. I had a 2.3 in high school. I can only get in community college.
00:39:20
Speaker
I wasn't doing so hot in community college either, but he sparked that passion of archaeology for me. That same semester, I was just like May, and I was just looking online. My community college didn't actually have a degree in anthropology or archaeology. They had a certificate in historic preservation.
00:39:37
Speaker
I just so happened to find Radford University and they actually had late enrollment and I applied and got into the Anthro program there. So the only college I dropped out of was like community college. I transferred out.
00:39:53
Speaker
So the only degree I didn't get was my associates. Oh well. And, uh, I went to Radford. Fuck no. Um, they can know. Um, so I went to Radford and started my anthropology career and like, you know, Dr. Anderson, when, you know, when I first out, I'm like, no one really gave me any thought.
00:40:13
Speaker
until I talked to him. And I had this conversation with Dr. Anderson, you know, David S. Anderson, he was on episode like 12 or 13. And I took this class as archaeology of chiefdoms. And this moment, I remember clearly, because there's only seven of us in class. And Dr. Anderson was talking to us about the different Mississippian chiefdoms, because there wasn't just one, there was a couple. And once one stuck out to me, and it was the Cadellan chiefdom, which was the only chiefdom culture
00:40:40
Speaker
west of the Mississippi. And, um, Kadoan is the language group that, uh, Pawnee, the Pawnee language falls into. So I cornered him after class and, uh, asked him, you know, like, Hey, you know, I always heard the Pawnee is related to the Aztecs. You're a myatologist and I saw this Kadoan chief them. What's the relationship? And, uh, dr. Anderson like really carefully told me that they're highly unlikely there wasn't one. And what that meant,
00:41:11
Speaker
It like shattered a worldview I had at the time. Cause up until that point, I'd always thought the Pawnees were related to the Aztecs and all of a sudden they weren't. And I remember I went home and at this point I had no predilections for going to graduate school. I just wanted to get out, be a shovel bomb or go into marketing.
00:41:33
Speaker
And, um, went online to my university's library database and started looking at like Pawnee archeology, Pawnee history. And, uh, like I couldn't find anything. So, um, that's kind of when I made the decision to go to grad school and research it for myself. Find like the Pawnee archeology of, of, you know, like what it, like my, the big question I want to answer is like who I am.
00:42:02
Speaker
Where did my people come from? Cause everything I found was all like colonial 18th, 19th century. And, and like, I realized like my people didn't have a past in that sense. Then that really upset me that we didn't have anything like that. And, um, yeah. So then, uh,
00:42:29
Speaker
I started looking at grad schools and honestly I wanted to move back to Wyoming. That's why I applied to the University of Wyoming. I had no idea who Bob was when I asked for him to be my advisor. I remember you saying that, yeah. I just wanted to move back to Wyoming to be near my family and be, you know, so that's why like, um, that's why I went to Wyoming and that's why I went to grad school was like, I had this question and that question was like, where did the Pawnee come from? And that's why my thesis is on like Pawnee origins.
00:42:55
Speaker
Um, and you know, honestly, like I did nothing for my thesis. I mean, like Roger Echo Hawk collected the oral traditions for Robert or, um, not Robert. Um, Eric hooked me up with the Bayesian and the radiocarbon stuff and Bob kind of gave me a help, but all I did was just plug shit into a computer. I didn't come up with anything new. I just kind of used a bunch of different methods that are already available and smashed them together to make a question. And then, uh,
00:43:25
Speaker
It was like at Wyoming, did I kind of really like being a grad student and like the questions. And that's why I went to Boulder and to get my PhD is, you know, at Wyoming, I realized there weren't many indigenous archeologists that no one was really talking about the indigenous or using indigenous perspectives. So I wanted to continue that at Boulder and.
00:43:46
Speaker
got myself, you know, I got accepted to Wyoming to stay for a PhD, but you know, no one really, no one does central plane stuff there as much as I would have wanted to stay and loved everyone who I was with. But, you know, Dr. Bamforth, who's my advisor now, works in Nebraska and, you know, it was just a better fit.
00:44:06
Speaker
So I'm like the only the whole reason I'm an archaeologist is I just had like a passion for history at first that I just had a question about who I was and by extension who my people were and archaeology is like kind of the best tool to figure out those questions.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to ask you because I talk to a lot of people and I'm not super proud of kind of my thesis. And I know, you know, it varies, you know, from person to person, how much they enjoyed their thesis or how much they actually thought they got out of it. But to me, every time we've had this conversation about your thesis, I always feel like you're proud of it and you're proud of answering the question.
00:44:52
Speaker
Um, and is that kind of how you feel? You really come off like you should be, and you should be proud of it. You answered a really fundamental, interesting question, which you started in grad school, you know, to answer. So, I mean, are you proud of, of kind of that work, even though you just kind of trashed it a little bit, but. I mean, I'm proud of it, but you know, I always give credit to where credit's due, like Dr. Rick Robinson, Michael Page, Bob Kelly.
00:45:20
Speaker
Um, Roger Echo Hawk and like the state archeologists of Nebraska, Rob Bozell and the state archeologists of Kansas. I think like my biggest issue, I mean, not issue, but like something, the reason why I've been Bojangling on getting my thesis published is it means so much to me that if I put it open, put it, if I get it published, if people criticize it, I'm going to take it personally.
00:45:48
Speaker
you know, cause if it's a bunch of like old white guys in archeology who have really no stake in the archeological record here, like to have someone try to tell me I'm wrong. Like as both of you know, I'm a rather like emotional person. So I'm proud of the thesis. It means a lot to me, probably more, you know, it means more to me than I think other, I mean, everyone's proud of their thesis. Everyone's proud of the research, but like the meaning behind my research, like that gives me an identity.
00:46:17
Speaker
And to have someone question it will, will piss me off. So like, that's why I've been, I've been working on getting it published with Dr. Robinson and like refining it with Dr. Bamforth. So that way, like to make the best case possible to tie up any loose ends. So I'm proud of it. Um, you should be meant a lot upon a nation.
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah. And honestly, it's mostly, you know, it's just, to me, it was just common sense. It was like, well, how do we interpret the archaeological record? And it's like, well, why don't we just ask the indigenous people? And it just so, you know, and, you know, for the indigenous side, it's like they don't have the same knowledge archaeologist. Basically, it's like, you know, it's like making a rope. You need a multiple threads to make a stronger rope. And I see archaeology needs oral traditions and oral traditions in archaeology. Like they're two peas in a pod.
00:47:10
Speaker
So, you know, I'm just hesitant for the academic side of getting questioned for it and for the indigenous side for being seen as like maybe, you know, what, you know, what they call a red apple, red on the outside, white on the inside.
00:47:28
Speaker
So, you know, kind of building off that earlier, was it right between the first and second segments? We spoke, we reached out to one of our favorite listeners who's very active on Instagram and talking to us and we really enjoy his engagement. So we want to shout out to Caleb Welch.
00:47:48
Speaker
And we asked him, yeah, ask us to send us some questions about, you know, for us to answer about us personally, because we don't do that very often. And kind of building off that, Carlton. So he asked, like, specifically kind of.
00:48:09
Speaker
Where do you see, um, let me, one second, let me get to the actual question. Jesus H. I should have been prepared. And then like to answer your first question about like my most memorable experience. Um, honestly, it was probably working in, um, rock shelter during the graduate session with Bob Kelly and we found a bone needle and Bob Kelly was like,
00:48:30
Speaker
You know, I've only found one of these in my entire career, and we've found two in the same day at this site. Keep digging. And that was just really more memorable. That's my shipment. Yeah. Yeah, awesome. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut that piece off from you. No, dude, you're good. I talked a lot. No, so Caleb asked, Carlton, where would you like to see indigenous archaeology go in the future, especially in regards to new forms of media?
00:49:01
Speaker
Uh, what I'd like, I would like to see more indigenous people in the field or people of indigenous descent. Um,
00:49:10
Speaker
off the top of my head, I can only think of two Plains indigenous archeologists. That's me and Emily Van Alts. We have a bunch of tippos, which are kind of trained. I mean, but like, it would really be cool to have, honestly, I would lose my shit if I had another Pawnee archeologist who was Southbanned and a Rickera archeologist and a Wichita archeologist. I mean, you could have this like Caddoan archeology.
00:49:33
Speaker
cult where I can nerd out with some of my cultural cousins and we can like kind of make some moves. So honestly I just want to see more indigenous people in the field and realize like archaeology isn't a devil science that if it's done from an indigenous perspective it's a useful tool rather than a weapon of the enemy.
Podcast Synergy and Future Content
00:49:52
Speaker
Oh, awesome, man. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Caleb, for that very insightful question. He did pass along one to David as well. So any plans to expand the cave inside your house? So for those that don't know, David has a fucking amazing, like paleolithic cave set in his office that he films things from. Why are you playing the Emperor's March?
00:50:24
Speaker
Cause I just got a piano app on my phone cause I have ADHD. Um, we used to Caleb Welch. I was like, no Star Wars. Um, anyway, continue. I have a, what was the question? Are you going to expand the cave in your house? Right. Um, yeah. Yeah. Um, I think for, you know, the sake of my landlords, uh, and my,
00:50:50
Speaker
wallet when I leave said landlord's house. I'm not, um, I'm not going to expand it, but I'm definitely going to add more like paintings to it for sure. Um, I'm going to do the Bob Ross video here soon. Um, yeah, I think, and I'm trying to add the ethnosynology logo to it, but I'm torn because I don't want to add paw prints to it because then it's bad.
00:51:24
Speaker
You guys are going to make fun of me for being a post-percessualist. It's a bad omen for the prey species that are already painted on the walls. If I put painted paintings on the walls, that would scare them away.
00:51:38
Speaker
Next. It's actually an interesting theory proposed by a Pat Shipman. And she said that if you look at Lascaux and Chauvet, like the big caves or like the huge big cave panel paintings there, there's no canids. And they think that maybe they didn't put humans or canids on those paintings because it would like, you know, possibly it was taboo. I don't know. She talked to Bernie Taylor. Anyway, next question.
00:52:08
Speaker
Oh, speaking, can I like promote some of our bonus episodes coming out? Yeah, let's try not to throw the guy under the bus, but yeah. Well, I mean, just like, all right, so just for our listeners to know, me, David, and Connor have each are...
00:52:24
Speaker
each recording or have recorded a bonus episode for the Archeology Podcast Network membership. I do an episode with Lana, who's a cognitive science PhD student, and Emily from episode three, who does rock art. We kind of talk about what Bernie's content on his episode, and we talk about the episode more critically through a scientific lens.
00:52:48
Speaker
David will be doing an episode on dogs and Connors bringing tentatively bringing Brian Schroeder back on and they're going to be talking about some fun archaeology. So Just keep that in mind. We'll do a whole promo for it So just some extra content that we're doing for our faithful listeners And I guess Connor one last question from the from the Welch himself For you It's
00:53:22
Speaker
Do you have any advice for anyone taking, for someone taking archeology classes online over the summer?
Advice and Reflections on Archaeology
00:53:28
Speaker
And you know, like, I mean, do you have advice for undergrads in anthropology and how to, how to be successful and academically? Uh, no, because I wasn't. Um, but no, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah. So just talk to your professors, take your time to meet professors, go meet with them at office hours. Um,
00:53:49
Speaker
all that sorts of thing. Put in the effort to get a good relationship with professors and things will line up. Hopefully we're not doing all online courses. Yes, it's not available on this device. Eat shit, Alexa. Shut the fuck up, Alexa. Okay, sorry. Jeff Bezos pissed off. Now my Alexa's going.
00:54:13
Speaker
Um, yeah, no, just, uh, if hopefully we're not doing online online classes, cause archeology classes in person are better hands on. Um, and they're awesome. And, you know, I, I want to thank Caleb Welch for all those awesome questions. And we have this tradition. It's like the dab and hot ones. We got asked the question, Carlton, would you choose to live a life in ruins? Well, I choose to live in life runs. Um,
00:54:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think I'm happy where I am. If I hadn't chosen to live life in ruins, I wouldn't have met you and David and the wonderful people at Radford, Wyoming, or Boulder. I think anthropology and archaeology is an extremely useful and pertinent field of study. And it can answer a lot of questions and be used to predict future events through our understanding of past human behavior.
00:55:14
Speaker
So, no, I'd absolutely live life in ruins. I'm not in it for the money. I'm in it to get on every two weeks with my two best bros and talk archeology and do research, make comics. This, I mean, you know, when you study human culture holistically, I think you become a better human being. I second that.
00:55:40
Speaker
Yeah, man. So I agree. This is this is the fucking life. We get to enjoy summers out in the field. You just get to learn so much. And through learning about past humans, you get to learn more about yourself. I wouldn't trade that for anything in the world. Beautifully said. Beautifully said.
00:56:04
Speaker
So with that, this has been a life and rolling episode. Thank you, David. No, I'd be an aerospace engineer. I would have been a NASA astronaut. I mean, David, yeah. Would you, would you choose life and runs again? Uh, I think about this a lot. Um, I think I might, uh, I have so many interests.
00:56:32
Speaker
I probably would have ended up doing some other science, like zoology or something like that. And then I'd be in the same, like, what do I do with my length? So I'd probably be in the same boat. So I'd probably end up doing this. Uh, maybe, maybe film school. What about you, Connor? Would you choose to live a life in ruins again? Uh, I have no other marketable skills. So yeah.
00:56:56
Speaker
Well, I mean, like just for our audience, it's been, we've been on for an, for a year. We were scheduled right now till September and we're already starting to fill slots. Like, uh, Jesus, have you been with us for this long? Just hang tight for, we'll be on, I think we're going to be on for awhile.
Gratitude and Future Aspirations
00:57:13
Speaker
Um, thank you everybody for listening to us this past year and following us on Instagram. Um, send us emails, let us know what you think, what questions you have, like, uh,
00:57:25
Speaker
We're in it for the long haul for better for worse. Um, it's about to get weird. Let's, uh, yeah, it's about to get weird. If you, if you want to be on, let us know. We fucking love having people asking us to be on. Bob Kelly asked us to be on. So just hit us up. If you have friends, let us know when and we'll, we'll post them. We'll have them on. We want to, we want to hear more from our audience. We want to hear more. Um,
00:57:52
Speaker
We want to have a more diverse range of people in the field of archaeology, anthropology. We've done what we've done. We've got primatologists on, paleontologists. Oh, Jesus, episode five. We had a dinosaur lady on. Whoo. It's been a ride. Well, Connor, David, thank you so much for indulging me and getting on a podcast with me. You guys have become two of my closest and dearest friends through this whole journey. I'm excited to... Thanks, man.
00:58:21
Speaker
I'm excited to see where this goes. Hopefully you guys will be here for planes. We got essays next year now. This year's been canceled So with that this has been episode uh fuck 22 Of a life in ruins podcast an entire year With that me David and Connor out
00:58:53
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast.
Closing Remarks
00:58:56
Speaker
You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archeologists in from the cold and feed them beer. So on this anniversary episode, I'm going to give all you people out there break from hearing my shitty jokes. We're going to pass it along to Mr. David Ian Howe. All right. You guys want to hear something funny?
00:59:24
Speaker
I fucking hope it's funny. One time I met a graduate student with really good mental health. Is that the joke? Yeah. I don't believe you.
00:59:44
Speaker
That's why it's a joke, because it's not real. Yep. Yep. I have another joke. That's actually a joke. Okay. I used to have two kidneys. And guess what? What? Now I have two adult, adult knees. Get the fuck out of here.
01:00:16
Speaker
Thank you everybody for your shitty jokes. We'll be back with another year more of shitty jokes. Thank you for listening and enjoy the rest of your day.
01:00:40
Speaker
This show is produced by the Archaeology Podcast Network, Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle, in Reno, Nevada at the Reno Collective. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.