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Main Character Energy with Gina Pham
19 Plays4 months ago
This week on "Have You Eaten?", Ji sits down with debut author Gina Pham to discuss her recent book, A Friend For When. Gina shares the inspiration behind her story and dives deep into her conscious decision to feature main characters of Asian descent. They discuss the importance of representation in literature and how seeing Asian characters in diverse roles–beyond stereotypes–can impact readers of all backgrounds.
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Transcript
Introduction to Season 2 and Podcast Goals
00:00:00
Speaker
nourishing the mind body and soul for the Asian diaspora have you eaten hello hello happy family welcome back to another episode of have you eaten and i am so excited that this is the start of our second season. I can't believe that we had a whole season in 2024. And as you remember, this is a podcast where we have invited guests ah come on and our, our mission and our aim is to highlight the intricate connections between wellness, mental health, and the multifaceted layers of our diverse Asian diaspora community.
Introducing Gina Pham and Her Book
00:00:41
Speaker
and by amplifying voices and experiences of our community we seek to empower reclaim agency and narratives and today i am so excited to have jina fam with us and jina is an author. um This is her book, A Friend for When. And here's a little story. I was camping with my son and I had a book with me. I'm not going to say which book it is, but it was an Asian diaspora book about history. And it depressed me so much. There's a lot of pain and suffering and war and calling colonization.
00:01:26
Speaker
I'm in our history and i had to put it down i just couldn't do it i had put it down. And ah a few days later i went to a bookstore and but nisha california i don't know if you know that place but um and.
00:01:41
Speaker
I saw this book on um on the front counter and on the cover page it says, or on the cover it says, a little humor, a little heart, a little angst and I was like, yes, I need that.
00:01:57
Speaker
That park spoke to you. That park spoke to me and I was like, this is it. I'm going to pick this book up. And then I saw that it was written by an Asian-American woman in the local area. And I was like, yep, done. And I have to say, and there's going to be no spoilers on this podcast. You need to pick up the book and read it yourself to find out what happens to the characters. But I loved it. i It's a very fun read. So thank you so much, Gina.
00:02:26
Speaker
Oh, thank you. I'm so glad you picked up the book. Yeah. And then and then it just happened that a few days after I picked up the book, that same bookstore had an event. And I got to hear you talk about your journey and becoming an author.
00:02:44
Speaker
And it wasn't the first thing that you did. um You weren't an author to begin with you. And I'm going to allow you to tell the story because I thought it was so fascinating and um it was so brave and bold of you to take on this this journey.
Gina's Journey to Authorship
00:03:02
Speaker
So can you tell us your journey into becoming an author? Because you didn't start off as an author.
00:03:07
Speaker
No, no. And the idea of even becoming an author was so far fetched. It was not something that I was going to pursue, at least in my lifetime that I thought I would. But no, I mean, I grew up in a very traditional immigrant Asian household. We grew very poor. So all of our focus was on academics. And so I did that. I did it well. um So I I quickly went and finished my undergraduate degree at Berkeley. And then I got a job right out of the gates. And then I was like, okay, what else can I do? Of course, I'll go get my MBA because I have no other hobbies. um So I did that. And I did that for a long time working corporate America.
00:03:57
Speaker
And I'm sorry, I'm sorry, this is a repeat for Yuji. But I haven't really told this story that many times where it just comes out naturally. um But when I was working, I just got that phone call one day that changed everything. It was just you know the big C word. um You you have have cancer. And of course, at that time, I mainly thought of my kids because I ah just had um at two kids at the time.
00:04:23
Speaker
and um It was one of those moments where you think once you go through something like that, that you would come out a different person. And I i honestly, I didn't feel any different after going through six rounds of chemo. um I went back to work. That was like what I'm supposed to do. um There was no other real option besides, well, you went through that. Great. You survived it. And now you go back to doing what you've always done.
00:04:53
Speaker
But how did you go through six rounds of chemo and get through that period of time? A lot of humor. My husband, I gotta say, if it wasn't him um taking care of us, us being myself and the kids during that time, I wouldn't have been able to do it. um Yeah, but it was a lot of humor. My husband is one of the funniest people I know, and he just can't take any situation, good, bad,
00:05:23
Speaker
It could be the most dire situation and he will just make me laugh. And that's what I needed. Yeah. Yeah. So shout out to my hubby. Um, I could have gone through that without him. So, um, yeah, so it was six rounds of chemo. Um, and then I jumped right back into it back at the desk, like as if, as if I didn't just have a life changing situation. Um, yeah. And then I think it was around the pandemic when.
00:05:52
Speaker
I found out I was pregnant. And the thing is, all the doctors told me, if you go through chemo, your chances of getting pregnant is like next to is its not going to happen for you. And ah to my surprise, I had a pandemic baby. and that was um That was fun.
00:06:10
Speaker
um But that was probably the catalyst in being like, hey, you know what? We have have a chance to do something different. I wasn't supposed to have this child, but now we have three kids.
00:06:22
Speaker
all under the age of, I think, six at the time. Oh, wow. Yeah. So um my husband and I just decided, you know, this is your time to not reassess. I wouldn't say like we were going to change anything that we did in terms of our values and our family structure and all of that. um But it was time for me to make myself whole, if that made sense. Even though I had three kids and i was we were doing what we can,
00:06:51
Speaker
um I always felt like something was missing. And writing has always been something in the background that I did for fun, but it was never encouraged as a career choice. um So it was time to make that change and I felt it. I needed it. I i needed to channel that creativity into an avenue and and this book came about. So what were you doing before um in your corporate job? Was there writing involved or was it completely different?
00:07:20
Speaker
Not at all. I think I had the most uncreative, perfect job ever. No, well, actually, that's not true. I started out in marketing, so there was some creativity in that. um But then I made my way into a manager role at a manufacturing ah And then I became a project manager. So it was just lots of numbers and spreadsheets. Yeah. Yeah. um So I have to ask the characters in the book, um were they based on any real people?
00:07:56
Speaker
That's a great question. um No, not entirely. There are pieces of people that I do know, but just bits and pieces that are mashed together to make a character. Yeah. So no, I can't say any ah individual character is one person that I know in real life.
Gina's Writing Process and Realism
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I loved about the book too, is um that the characters themselves were Asian American. Well, two of the main characters were. And I love that. and I love the main character being an Asian American woman. And with this like attitude almost in the beginning, um I could, I mean, she just is so relatable. And I just wondered, I wondered, is this Gina?
00:08:39
Speaker
No, not no. I think there's parts of me that I see myself in the main character, Sue, definitely. But no, um I think she's a lot more outspoken and snarky and just kind of real than I probably am. Yeah, I really liked her. I felt like if she was a real life person, like we would be friends. Oh, awesome. I'm glad. Yeah. It was fun writing her, that's for sure.
00:09:05
Speaker
yeah um and so Yeah. Tell us about that process. like how did you How did you even start like with the first page or the idea? like How did that come about? I um don't have a process. I start with an idea and then I will just sit at my laptop and write away.
00:09:27
Speaker
um And then it will just develop. But I did have a formal like a storyline that I wanted to go after, but each chapter was unwritten and I had to just put the pieces together. So I don't really have a formal process, but it was just nice. I i just sat down and I think I banged out the first um three chapters rather rather quickly. It just came.
00:09:51
Speaker
and that that the And without giving anything away, like no spoilers because people have to read it on their own to find out. But the ending, did you know the ending was going to be the ending? Like when when you first sat down and wrote out the outline or did that come like towards the end? I was curious. about Oh, it's so hard to say without giving it away because there's a few things that happened in the ending, right? I knew that the storyline with the CEO, I knew how that story was going to end. But I know why you're curious because it could have gone so many different ways with these characters. So many different ways. Yes.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I wasn't expecting the ending at all. And so it was really cool to to read it. And, um, cause life is like that. Like life doesn't have like, life isn't linear where everything's expected, right? Like, yeah, you can kind of expect certain things in life, but I mean, you were thrown a curve ball, right? Like,
00:10:58
Speaker
and And then here you were like totally making a different change in your life. And so I feel like I think that's part of the reason why I like the book so much because it was it was kind of like life happening. Yeah, and that's what it was. It's this book is, um you know, it has familiar romantic tropes of romance novels, right? But I think there's a realism aspect to the storyline with characters, especially in the workplace. um And it's life. It's everyday emotions you feel. I mean, you walk with the main character or you read from her perspective how she negotiates or navigates these relationships. And you hear her internal thoughts, which is what I really love about the book when I was writing it. um And then you just follow her alone when she realizes or maybe she doesn't um
00:11:47
Speaker
ah she that is she's falling in love. um So it's just life happening to you as it's happening without, yeah. This was fun to write.
Balancing Motherhood and Writing
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah. And so what are what's your dated like what's your life like now? Are you a full-time writer? Are you back at your corporate job? like what it like is What does life look like for you? Oh, gosh. I shudder at that thought.
00:12:15
Speaker
um I know, I don't have any intentions of rejoining the corporate life. um That might bite me in the butt later. um If that sound bite gets leaked, but I know... Okay, it's life. Life changes. There you go. um No, my day to day right now is I'm a full-time mom. I have three kids.
00:12:37
Speaker
and then when it's their bedtime. It's my turn to write. And that's when I'm writing the second book right now. so Or I'm rewriting the second book right now. So that's pretty much my life now and it's fantastic. So you're a full-time mom and a full-time author. Oh, yes. Essentially, I try to make those hours work. yeah Yeah. And then how did your family, I was just curious like coming from an immigrant family, like, you know, I've told the story before where I i studied economics in college. Well, that's what I started off as and I wanted to get my JD MBA and blah, blah, blah.
00:13:18
Speaker
And um I switched my major to theater. And when I did that, my dad was like, trying to make it a positive thing. but ah He wanted me to be a lawyer. And he said, well, I guess theater, you could use that in the courtroom.
00:13:35
Speaker
in so many ways. I'll spin it that way. Yeah, he totally spun it to his like narrative of what he wanted me to be. And so I was just curious, coming it sounds like our backgrounds have a lot of similarities. and that We grew up poor too, or I grew up poor too. And and I'm just curious like how your family took the change and your life choices.
00:13:58
Speaker
Um, you know, because I made this change, I think later in life where it's not under their, under their roof, um, in the same situation as when we were kids. So it wasn't that much of a, what are you doing with your life? Like you can't, you know, I've i've already established myself. Um, I was already providing, um,
00:14:21
Speaker
resources financially. So it was just it was more of like, okay, Gina <unk> is doing what a responsible Gina would do anyway. So they trusted me enough at this point in my life where it wasn't it wasn't such a big deal. Now, had I graduated high school and said, I'm going to pursue a job as an author, that would have been a totally different conversation, but time changes people. So they're more receptive of it now.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I still know adult children who are fully out of their house, providing for themselves, and yet their parents' um opinions are so important to them, and they're still like kind of controlled by them. So it's it's nice to hear that your family was supportive, um and and the changes, and you're pursuing your passion.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah. oh and so But don't get me wrong, their opinions are still very important and they vocalize it. Trust me, they do. But I've just learned to you know not put so much weight on it anymore. i mean it was pretty um It could be a lot as a kid hearing those strong opinions and what you should do with your life and what you're doing wrong all the time. but As you grow older, I think i just I just stopped putting so much emphasis on it. It's not part of my adult grown-up story as much as it was back then. Yeah, yeah. um And about your children. um So what if they came to you and said, Mom, I want to be a writer. I want to be a painter. I want to be an artist. like What do you think Mama Gina would would say?
00:16:05
Speaker
I would say everything opposite my parents would have said at the time, go for it. Like do what makes you happy. Life is so short. I mean, my kids are, they have all the resources available to them now. They're they're doing so many clubs, so many sports. um They have the avenues to figure out what they want to do in life. And I never had that as a kid. So of course I want to give them every opportunity to explore whatever it is that they want to do.
00:16:32
Speaker
I mean, I'll instill some sense into them, of course, like you still need to, you know, be able to provide yourself and provide for yourself, excuse me, and be independent as an adult. But yeah, I would encourage it. And how old are your kids now? um My oldest is nine. My middle child is seven. And my youngest is three. Oh, can you see like as a mom, kind of where they're, where they're kind of leaning?
00:16:59
Speaker
yet oh yeah yeah um My middle child for sure, she is gonna be she is theatrical. She's going to be some kind
Asian Representation in Media
00:17:08
Speaker
of actress or I don't know, she's just a clown. I see her doing something where she's entertaining people.
00:17:16
Speaker
Oh, I wanted to be a clown when I was four. And then my dad took me to the circus when I was five and that totally, totally so ah cured that want. I'm deathly afraid of clowns to this day. Yeah, I understand. The circus or it, that will do it for you. Oh my god, that movie. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:17:38
Speaker
um And then what would you say to somebody you know um somebody who came to you that had a similar background as you? Let's say ah young you know a young person. like but would you What advice would you give somebody who wants to make that change?
00:17:56
Speaker
Oh, go about it in a smart way. um Give yourself options. i i don't I could not give anyone advice to be like drop everything in and pursue it with all you got just because um of the way I was brought up. So I would say go about it smartly. Give yourself backup options and dumb but still do it. You can always do it on the side and see where it takes you. It doesn't have to be this or nothing. Right. Yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
Um, gosh, I, I'm so curious what the second book is about. Can you give us a little sneak peek of the story or? Uh, yeah, I can. Um, Oh, okay. And my wheels are turning. Yeah. Without giving anything away. Um, it is still going to be written as a first person narrative. Um, but it would be a completely different character of Mel.
00:18:52
Speaker
um Yes. um And the lead is still an Asian American male in his perspective. Oh, very cool. I love that you're making Asian Americans the lead in your books. I have to. I feel like it's a duty and it's What's the word? The word is escaping me. It's a privilege to write about Asian Americans and have them be featured as a main character. yeah Especially like for me growing up, it was just um representation was very little. um So now having avenues where you can make whoever you want as the main character and for me to choose it to be an Asian American person, I think it's it's an honor to write.
00:19:35
Speaker
Oh God, I so resonate with that. I mean, growing up, all I saw was like teen magazines where it was a blonde, blonde blue eyed, you know, Barbie dolls were all blonde and blue eyed and, you know, not feeling Yeah, represented. and And that's another reason why I picked up your book and um started reading it. and And the fact that you made this main character so... I think she's really strong. strong I mean, she has a strong personality, but she's a strong person.
00:20:12
Speaker
um And I really appreciated that about about her. um Yeah, and I can't wait to read the second one and kind of see where you take from an Asian male perspective because also, you know, what came to mind was I have my thoughts on Asian men, right? Like, I grew up with a very strong Asian male figure. um Strong meaning he was very domineering. And um I didn't have a lot of, um like, loving and nurturing around Asian men. So that's why I'm just so curious how this narrative and the story is going to go. Yeah. um um I can relate to that as well.
00:20:59
Speaker
um And I think my goal for writing this next book from an Asian male perspective Asian American male perspective is that it is fiction. And even though we don't have those kind of. um pillars in our life of like role models from a male role model. um It's nice to write from that perspective and give that representation where it might not be in in our lives personally, but it could be in others and maybe something to aspire to for other young American males.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, and like the truth is they exist. They're out there. you know it's just that Just because maybe you and I didn't grow up but with that doesn't mean that they don't exist out in the world, in the wild. and So it's great to see that represented in works of art, in books, in movies. and i mean I remember, I don't know, this might be a little TMI, but we'll go there. um Growing up, I you know didn't date Asian boys. um They reminded me, even if they were nothing like my relatives, they reminded me of my relatives. And then there's this part of me that was like, what if they are part of my relatives? like what What if like we did a DNA test and we were related somehow? like i don't know Those thoughts like went through my head and it was just so weird and random.
00:22:27
Speaker
um And then as we're seeing more male like Asian males represented on movies and TV and I'm looking at them, and I'm like, oh my God, they're hot. They're hot and they're gentle and they're sweet and they're smart. And I was like, Why didn't I see that? And it occurred to me, it's because we didn't see that. I know, right? Yeah, what we saw in our day-to-day lives and our families, but we didn't see that on TV represented. And now we see that everywhere. And I'm like, man, I'm like, Hubby, you better behave because there's some hot Asian men out there. That's so funny. Yeah. and And I want to contribute to that kind of representation of Asian males.
Cultural Differences in Relationships
00:23:14
Speaker
So yeah, I'm excited to see how this character turns out. Yeah. And remind me, you're in a biracial relationship, right? I am, yeah. If I remember correctly, okay, so am I. And what does your husband think about all of this? Like your switch, and it sounds like he's just so supportive and so loving, but how does he feel about, yeah, how does he feel about everything?
00:23:43
Speaker
um He's very supportive. I'm sorry, talking about my husband got me stuttering here. a and mean My husband has been my my my boyfriend since high school. So he's been with me through a lot.
00:24:01
Speaker
um He's witnessed my my family problems as a kid and then everything we went through growing up. So he's just, you know, he's he's my ride or die. He's just there on along for the ride and he's just supporting me as we go. It's great. Go ahead. Oh, no, I was going to say, have you guys ever had moments where like, you know, with my husband, he's also, he's um half great, half He's white. Let's call it for what it is. um and you know There are moments where you like during the pandemic and during you know um all the Asian hate movements, and like that was a period of time where we had a lot of conversations around me being an Asian woman and what that really meant and how I felt. and
00:24:52
Speaker
you know There were a lot of times when it was really hard for me to explain to him, but he was just so great in trying to understand, but he can never fully understand because he's not an Asian woman.
00:25:09
Speaker
i just I'm just curious like if you've ever had that moment in your your relationship where it's like,
00:25:18
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not really sure where I'm trying to go with this question, but um there's just this understanding that you know that comes from coming from a similar background that you don't have to explain to somebody, right? Yeah. So I don't know if you can relate to that.
00:25:39
Speaker
um I can. And i probably this next story is is what it's one of those moments where sometimes my husband is is white, essentially. I mean, he's partially Filipino as well. His grandma's Filipino. um But he looks straight up white. But there are moments when we would um would have discussions or he would do something and I'll be like,
00:26:05
Speaker
Dude, you are just the widest person in this room right now. um And it's one of those moments where I feel like he he's around Asians, I mean, particularly me and my family a lot, but there are instances where you can be empathetic, um but you never know from, because you can't be in our shoes. And as much as you try to describe what you're feeling or going through or like certain cultural differences, you just, it doesn't click right away.
00:26:35
Speaker
So yeah, but he's open to having those discussions and when he realizes like, um he can't He can only relate so far and it's just a learning period for him, for us, for both of us. And keeping that mind open. And I think that's what makes my husband so beautiful is he doesn't close off. like he's He's not like, I don't understand. And so that's just how it is. But he really truly tries to understand and he knows that he's not going to fully understand.
00:27:10
Speaker
because he doesn't have the same lived experiences, but he can come from that place of empathy and curiosity. And um and so, yeah, i and I think the more that people like you write from the perspective of, you know, Asian diaspora people,
00:27:33
Speaker
And the more like people like my husband and your husband and you know other people pick up that work and just open their eyes, I think that's so important.
Podcast Mission and Final Advice
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. yeah And it's interesting, us having very similar backgrounds and us marrying um ah to a white family um and noticing those having those conversations and those moments where you're like, yeah, it's unspoken, but I think you know what I'm saying.
00:28:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah. And then I think we both are very lucky too. and We have that similarity to the, where our husbands are very supportive. So we lucked out. Our entire team is so amazing. Um, and the work that we're doing with hello. Happy is very similar to, you know, I think the goals of your books where we want to showcase the Asian diaspora.
00:28:28
Speaker
And I don't want it to be in an echo chamber. Like I want non-Asians to come to Hello Happy and read about the food origins of, you know, whatever it is that we're writing about and listen to these conversations. So maybe, maybe there'll be other you know couples out there who have similar experiences as us that can listen to this, you know? Yeah. And that's the goal.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah, as that's beautiful. You said it very well. Yeah. So I'm wondering if you have any advice for adults now. I mean, we talked about the younger people, but, um, any words of wisdom or inspiration that you can lend to us. I mean, you've gone through so, I mean, you've gone through so much and you made it out on the other side in such a beautiful way. And,
00:29:23
Speaker
I'm curious like if you have any words of inspiration or advice. Okay. This is not going to be that deep, but I think it's good advice. Okay. And is it is not that serious. Whatever it is, it is not that serious. um I mean, you can take that with a grain of salt. Some things are like cancer and stuff, but even going through that, if you you approach it with a certain perspective um and and mindset,
00:29:53
Speaker
you You'll get through the other side. I love that. Gina, it was so lovely speaking with you and meeting you. And I love, too, that you're so close by. Yeah. You're local. um I appreciate all this time. And I know that anyone listening right now is going to love, love, love your books. So pick it up.
00:30:20
Speaker
The first one is A Friend for When by Gina Pham. The second one is coming out later this year. And I will be the one of the first ones to pick that up. Oh, you're so sweet, G. This has been so much fun. It's an honor to be on your podcast. Thank you so much for having me.
00:30:35
Speaker
Oh, thank you. Thank you everyone for joining. Have you eaten? And remember to go back to the past episodes from the last season and expect to hear a lot more this year um from some amazing human beings and some changes to our podcast as well, which I'm going to keep a little secret. um so that you guys can come back and check it out. um And if no one else has told you today, you are amazing and you belong. And till next time, this is Gee with Have You Eaten with Hello Hat.
00:31:17
Speaker
Hello, happy fam. Thank you so much for joining us today. Make sure to subscribe, like, and hit the notification bell. And until next time, I hope your bellies and your hearts stay full.