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Injury Time. Episode 3 Why are clubs so secret about injuries?
34 Plays6 months ago
This week we talked about some of the recent Arsenal injuries and why clubs are not very transparent about what the injury is and how long they will be out. We also talk about the relationship between the club doctor and the International team docctors. Do please send questions to theinjurytimepod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Injury Time Podcast Episode 3
00:00:01
Jonathan Bird
Right. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Injury Time. This is our third episode. And with me again is Ian and Shabazz. Welcome, gents.
00:00:11
Shabaaz Mughal
Bye.
00:00:12
Ian
Evening.
00:00:13
Shabaaz Mughal
hey
00:00:13
Jonathan Bird
So um we thought we'd talk today. as with The season's kicked off. Football season's kicked off.
Why are football clubs secretive about injuries?
00:00:19
Jonathan Bird
um And we thought we'd talk about, initially, certainly, about about injuries, injuries,
00:00:27
Jonathan Bird
and why it appears that clubs are a little bit reluctant to give any kind of details. We try and avoid making it too Arsenal heavy, Ian and I, both Arsenal season six holders and Ian used to work at the Arsenal.
00:00:42
Jonathan Bird
um But we know that Saka was injured, Odegaard was injured on Saturday, the game both of us were at. um But also just generally, it it tends to be slightly opaque.
00:00:54
Jonathan Bird
what happens when a player is injured. um So
How are player injuries managed during a game?
00:01:02
Jonathan Bird
what do you think? um I mean, Shabazz, first of all, when you when a player's injured, they have to come off. It's an actual injury. They have to come off. um How does it work in terms of the pressure on you to get answers, to get results, to get the player back on the pitch?
00:01:21
Shabaaz Mughal
I think that's the the first question is always how long, how long are they going to be out for, not just from the player, the manager, even other players. um But generally, if you think the process, so someone will get injured during the game, um depending on your sort of setup and what you've agreed, the physio may go on.
00:01:40
Shabaaz Mughal
If they think they need some more help, they'll call for the doctor or you may both call together. You've made the decision they can't continue. That's a decision often the player makes alongside you.
00:01:54
Shabaaz Mughal
It depends on the type of injury as well. So they've gone off and then one of the other members of your team, normally your second physio, they'll assess
Communicating injury details within the club
00:02:03
Shabaaz Mughal
them. Sometimes you've got a tunnel doctor, but they've got quite a specific role as well. so They may not have time to assess them.
00:02:12
Shabaaz Mughal
So you may but wait, and if it's in the first half, you may wait wait till half time or till full time to properly do an assessment and have some sort of idea of what the injury is and how long it's going to be.
00:02:25
Shabaaz Mughal
And then from there, there's a whole process really. It's acute management of the injury. It's about getting the investigations at the right time. ah And then a lot of communication.
00:02:37
Shabaaz Mughal
um
00:02:37
Jonathan Bird
But then how does it work with, say, so like a big player, that sack that went off um and it looked to be the hamstring on the other leg from the one he had surgery on?
00:02:50
Jonathan Bird
That's going to be the first question the manager has asked. So does the manager go to you do you? Do you know you have to tell them what you think? How does that work?
00:03:01
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, I think, I mean, Ian, it would be good to hear what you think about it. But essentially, yeah you do your assessment, you give the them your initial thoughts.
The role of second opinions in injury management
00:03:10
Shabaaz Mughal
And then it's just ah the next couple of days, sort of, it's a long process of arranging the investigations, getting the results, discussing them, and then communicating with the various people involved in in the case, um which can involve the player, the coaching staff, your board, the national team, the communications team,
00:03:37
Shabaaz Mughal
um your specialists and then that decision is then made about time frames and controlling the amount of information which is then given out depending on the circumstances.
00:03:49
Shabaaz Mughal
What do you think Ian with all of that?
00:03:51
Ian
Yeah, I mean, I think that So I have a very sort of slightly dogmatic view about this. ah You know, if someone comes off and they say, I've got hamstring pain, I'll examine them.
00:04:02
Ian
But, you know, in a way, what am I going to do? I'm going to do if the first aid, which is either ice them, compression, you know, strap them, you know, maybe give them crutches if they've got pain on walking.
00:04:15
Shabaaz Mughal
Thank you.
00:04:15
Ian
and And then you arrange the investigation as soon as you can.
Balancing player privacy with club strategies
00:04:20
Ian
and you know you get the investigation and then then you start the process of you know you always nearly always get a second opinion on the investigation and make sure therefore that you've you know that nothing's been missed and you've got the right diagnosis once've once you've once you've agreed within your team what the diagnosis is um you can start then the process of getting that information up to senior management agents, coaches, and people like that. And and we were chatting earlier that, you know this time of year, you know, I've just looked at my phone and it says Saka out for four weeks, which is not the end of the world for a hamstring.
00:05:02
Ian
But, you know, what if he was going to be out for much longer or any other player who injured their hamstring at the weekend? if they're out for a long time we've still got best part of a week left of the transfer window some teams yeah i don't know about us i'm not i don't want to know about arsenal in a way but some teams will say we need we need them to go buy somebody so
00:05:24
Jonathan Bird
but Well, we saw that, didn't we, with with you know Kai Havertz who's out with it without with a knee injury and Arsenal pulled the trigger on Eze.
00:05:28
Ian
exactly on yeah
00:05:32
Jonathan Bird
But, I mean, was that necessarily linked?
00:05:36
Ian
but Well, um exactly and that's the truth.
00:05:36
Jonathan Bird
We don't know.
00:05:38
Ian
We don't really know. i mean, was Eze going to go anyway? All the Spurs supporters say on on on ah on social media say he was going to go anyway. I don't know. And again, don't really, don't want to know. i mean, I think, but I think that, you know, the given story from the general press is that they went after Eze because Havertz was out for a long time.
00:06:02
Ian
And, you know, so these,
00:06:03
Jonathan Bird
but you think a bit But we still don't really know, what again, to to do what why is there is this secrecy? In quotes, secrecy, you know, these are patients and they have the right to
Strategic advantage of withholding injury details
00:06:16
Jonathan Bird
confidentiality of their own health care, but also their assets in an organisation worth a billion.
00:06:16
Ian
Yeah.
00:06:25
Jonathan Bird
And if Kai Havertz is out for the season, then that has major implications for a club as big as Arsenal. and we And as you said, we're still in lieu still in the ah in the in the transfer window. So, but why why you you as you said, we we we don't we have no end we you no longer work at Arsenal, so we don't we't have any internal messaging from them. But why don't you think they're not being more open about...
00:06:52
Jonathan Bird
Kai Havertz, must be, is it presumably they need to have have another specialist? you know you you You mentioned to me offline before about there are so many different competing factors as to why they we still don't really know what's happening with Kai Havertz.
00:07:06
Ian
Yeah, and and in ah in a way, i mean, I come back to you and say, well, why should we know? Actually, you know what? He's a person. He's allowed his own privacy if that's what he wants. And we don't know if he wants it or not.
00:07:20
Ian
But if he does, then good luck to him. is He's allowed that. And, you know, we'll see him when he's fit. and And if you're a fan, all you can say is well, it'll be great when he's fit and it'll be great when he's back.
00:07:33
Ian
And actually, you should be satisfied and satisfied with that, I think.
00:07:38
Jonathan Bird
Yeah, Shabazz?
00:07:39
Shabaaz Mughal
I think in football there's this need for knowing information about knowing every little detail about everything that's going on in a football club.
00:07:50
Shabaaz Mughal
um
00:07:50
Jonathan Bird
Ah, 2-0. We're recording as Liverpool and Newcastle playing. Is it 2-0? Oh, I'm out life.
00:07:57
Ian
Mm. Etiquette.
00:07:59
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, so I think, as Ian said, I agree.
00:08:01
Jonathan Bird
Anyway, sorry, Shabazz, come.
00:08:03
Shabaaz Mughal
is iss It's up to the player, it's up to the club how much information they want to reveal. um And there's various reasons they may have. you know We don't know the ins and outs of any club and why
Navigating injury disclosures during transfers
00:08:16
Shabaaz Mughal
they want to say what they say. You can only speculate.
00:08:19
Shabaaz Mughal
But in a transfer window, if you think about it, um if i'm ah if I'm a potential buying club and a selling club, when negotiating and they know that I definitely need this player because one of my other players has picked up a long term injury that may suddenly drive the price up, weaken the negotiating position. So there may be other factors that are non sort of medical that are influencing how much information is being released.
00:08:51
Shabaaz Mughal
But ultimately, yeah iss not you know it's it's
00:08:51
Ian
Yeah.
00:08:55
Shabaaz Mughal
as fans, we want to know all of this information, but we have no right to do it, basically.
00:09:02
Jonathan Bird
Yeah, good point.
00:09:02
Ian
it's I mean, ah I agree, Shabazz. When I was at one particular club, I had a situation where we were signing a player and the medical officer for that club rung me up and said, what a great lad, he's a great lad, he's in the gym all the time, he's fit as can be, you won't have any trouble with him.
00:09:23
Ian
I thought, great stuff.
00:09:23
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:25
Ian
Told the manager, you know look, we can go ahead, this is the last out of the transfer window. um I'm doing the medical, I turn up to do the medical and find out he's got a medial collateral ligament injury in his knee and he ain't he ain' and he'll be okay,
Club vs. national team medical staff relationships
00:09:38
Shabaaz Mughal
yeah old take yeah yeah
00:09:38
Ian
but the but the manager needed him sooner rather than later and he was and I had to ring the manager up and say, look, he'll be fine, but he won't be fine for a few weeks.
00:09:50
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, it's suspicious someone volunteering you that much information, isn't it?
00:09:51
Ian
So,
00:09:54
Ian
yeah
00:09:55
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah.
00:09:55
Ian
yeah I was completely sucked in, of course, as you can imagine.
00:09:58
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah.
00:10:00
Jonathan Bird
Yeah, and, um, sorry, go on, Shiraz.
00:10:00
Ian
But... Yeah, sorry. No, no, you crack on...
00:10:05
Jonathan Bird
We were just saying, um, when we were offline, that it was so, and you were at, uh, you were England. um back when Shabazz when you were at Spurs so what's that like with the relationship when you've got you know we always um it's almost you know so Saka's out for Liverpool away next weekend which is not brilliant you know he's an amazing talent Maduweke perhaps on the right but this is not football tactics podcast but anyway um
00:10:39
Jonathan Bird
But then everyone says, oh, but you know but then it's the international break. So brilliant, Saka won't go to England. Because you're your players, in quotes, go off to England, go off to whatever country they play for, um and they get injured.
00:10:54
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah.
00:10:54
Jonathan Bird
Which is what happened with Odegaard last season. ah He had his ankle injury playing. ah playing in in the in qualifiers. So, is I know it wasn't even that, it was even a friendly, wasn't it?
00:11:06
Ian
Yeah.
00:11:06
Jonathan Bird
um So, what's that like, that relationship between the England medical team and and the medical and the political team at the clubs?
00:11:13
Ian
We had a good relationship, Baz, I think. ah When I was at the FA, we used to travel around the clubs that had players in the squads, um you know, just to make...
00:11:21
Shabaaz Mughal
yeah
00:11:24
Ian
It was a sort of PR exercise, but also we'd say hello to the players, we'd say hello hello to the medical staff... So we had good relationship and you know certainly if um if a player got injured, the first person that I would call would be the club doctor.
00:11:32
Shabaaz Mughal
Thank you.
00:11:40
Ian
And the reason is is because it would be in the news and then the owner or the chief exec will be ringing the doc up at the club and saying, what's going on with our player?
00:11:51
Ian
So it was important to make sure that they knew what was going on and they were always the first person I rang. And ah think you owe them that because, you know, they're on a hiding to nothing if they don't know what's going on.
00:12:05
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, and I think with Ian doing that, I mean, we knew each other anyway before that, but it always strengthens the relationship and builds the trust, which is really important and it works both ways. So obviously if we've got a player who's English and he gets injured, England want to know how long are they going to be out for, what the implications.
00:12:25
Shabaaz Mughal
And I think there was a time at Spurs where we almost like half the team were being coming from Spurs. So there was a There's definitely a very strong relationship there.
00:12:37
Shabaaz Mughal
And just going back a bit, John, bit about so when a player gets injured, one of the big things is the communication. So you've got to... ah You've obviously the player wants to know you've got to communicate with the player that may or may not involve the agent as well with the player's permission.
00:12:53
Shabaaz Mughal
Then there's the club and the board that you've got to discuss with. Then you've got to speak with your national team colleagues as well. And then the so this whole process can take almost a day, almost two days, the whole communication thing.
00:13:06
Ian
Oh, easy. easy
00:13:07
Shabaaz Mughal
So that also can add to this. Why are we not getting you know all this information immediately? Because it takes time and there's a lot of stakeholders involved in in getting that information, in needing that information and making a decision before it may be then released to the wider public.
00:13:25
Ian
Yeah, I mean, the whole ducks in a row thing is never more necessary than when you're dealing with this. So with the national team, you know, you'd make sure about the medical team at the club knew about what's going on, and then you'd speak to the comms people at England, and you'd make sure that the comms people at the club and the comms people in England
00:13:39
Shabaaz Mughal
Thank
00:13:53
Ian
were aligned in what they were going to say so that the club weren't upset about what England said and England weren't upset that the club said something on their website. So it was yeah and making sure that all these things were in the in the right way. And of course, you know, then, OK, so a player gets injured on international duty, they go home.
00:14:15
Ian
you know, they go back to the club. And so, you know, you'd scan them, you make sure that you've got the report, you make sure you've got a proper diagnosis and you hand them back to the club in in ah in a way that rehabilitation and care can start straight away.
Building relationships with international teams' medical staff
00:14:32
Ian
When you're abroad, you know, if you're halfway around the world, um we had a player in South Africa on the first training session. had a really bad injury when we got there for the World Cup.
00:14:44
Ian
By the time I got him into the scanner, the club doc was ringing me saying, what's going on? Because it was on the telly. So all this stuff and and making sure that you get all the right information and you make sure that everyone knows.
00:14:58
Ian
Because the trouble is, when people are left out, they don't like it and they agitate.
00:15:01
Shabaaz Mughal
Mm-hmm.
00:15:02
Ian
So you've got to make sure that everyone knows everything all the time. um And Shabazz is right, it can take one to two days. um Agents, and and then the agent will say, well, you know, I want this out player to see so-and-so.
00:15:17
Ian
He's a surgeon in Spain. He's a surgeon in in Belgium. It's all this stuff, or in the USA, this stuff goes on all the time.
00:15:25
Shabaaz Mughal
The other thing actually to remember is that, um just going back to what John said about the players got injured so he may miss international duty, but the international teams have a right to call up the player even if they're injured to assess and decide if they think he may be available somewhere down the line during the international break. so That relationship is such an important relationship between the doctors to to to ensure what's best for the player really, because you don't want to play unnecessarily travelling just to be told, yeah, we agree, it's unlikely to be shared.
00:16:01
Ian
Yeah, I'll fight up the country.
00:16:02
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, exactly. So those things are key, but sometimes, you know, they do need to go.
00:16:07
Jonathan Bird
So happens if, you know, I mean, you're talking about the England FA, but of course you both worked in Premier League, which is, you know, one of the most international leagues in the world. what's it like trying to deal with, you know, for football associations that you have absolutely no relationship with? what's you just don't You just don't know them at all. You don't know the doctors there and wherever it is, be it Ghana or Uruguay or whatever.
00:16:30
Jonathan Bird
is that have you ever have you Have you had to deal with that as club doctors?
00:16:34
Ian
yeah loads Yeah, all the time. ah You're right, because you know when Shabazz was at Spurs, he'd had players in you know three or four different teams. Even when I was at Bournemouth, we had two or three players at the at the um ah African Nations Cup year before last.
00:16:53
Ian
And you know you have you have to speak to people. You have to email them and ask them what's going on. Someone gets injured, and you so you know they got injured because it says so on the internet.
00:17:03
Shabaaz Mughal
a
00:17:04
Ian
but But then you don't get an answer from the medical staff.
00:17:07
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, time time zones are different.
00:17:07
Ian
um And
00:17:10
Shabaaz Mughal
It's tough.
00:17:11
Ian
it's... sort yeah
00:17:13
Shabaaz Mughal
You've got to build those relationships, though.
00:17:13
Ian
it is
00:17:15
Shabaaz Mughal
you know It might be the player. ah you are i often used to speak to the players and say, who's your medical staff? Can we get their details? Give your doctor ah my number as soon as you get there. And you try and build those relationships so that essentially it makes life easier for all of us.
FIFA regulations on player injuries
00:17:33
Shabaaz Mughal
um You don't want to you know, not know who the doctor is for Brazil and then suddenly you need to know who it is and you're trying to frantically ring around. So it's it's's basically pre-planning and be prepared and and think ahead for eventualities, which we always do as medics.
00:17:46
Ian
Yeah. the um The Federation's get in touch with you and say, this player's been selected for the for international duty.
00:17:56
Ian
Please let us know their last four weeks um exercise stats and where they're at with the GPS and what their current medical issues is and what treatment they're having.
00:18:07
Ian
Do they have ankle strapping, knee strapping? So this that system is much better than it used to be, much better than it used to be. But Shabazz is also right, is that if if a player doesn't turn up, you know, says they're injured for ah for international duty, then, yes, you've got a right to you've got a ah a right to call them up and examine them.
00:18:32
Ian
But if if they don't if they don't turn up and then the next week... they're selected for the team, you have the right so for FIFA to stop them playing for that game.
Club vs. national team priorities in injury management
00:18:45
Ian
So they're not allowed to play. and No one ever enforces that rule.
00:18:49
Jonathan Bird
So really?
00:18:49
Ian
that
00:18:49
Jonathan Bird
What's So hang on.
00:18:51
Ian
So...
00:18:52
Jonathan Bird
what's whats sort So what's ah a player for a club, you you say to the FA he's not fit and then he plays the next...
00:18:53
Ian
and Yeah, hold on, hold on.
00:18:58
Ian
yeah so i it's Yeah, and he plays the next game, then you're allowed to say we're stopping him playing that game.
00:19:05
Jonathan Bird
Well, how do they, how would they do that? Well, because it's a fee-for... Right.
00:19:08
Ian
That's FIFA, yeah. That's the rules of the game. but no But it only happens if the National Federation protests
00:19:20
Jonathan Bird
right
00:19:21
Shabaaz Mughal
Which makes, you know, it's...
00:19:21
Ian
So if you know if you don't say anything, I mean, it happened to me loads of times, and I'd say, so look, I'd say to the manager, yeah get them down, we'll have a look at them.
00:19:22
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah.
00:19:30
Ian
and the And the manager would often say, oh, you know, politics-wise, we don't want to do that because otherwise the other manager the manager at the club gets upset that this player got in a car and went all the way to St George's Park and all the way back for nothing. um So the there's politics in that bit.
00:19:47
Ian
But if they then play the next game... Because they will turn up, someone might turn up, I don't think it's ever happened, might turn say, oh, my hamstring hurts a bit, oh, it's really sore, I don't think I can train tomorrow.
00:19:59
Ian
And the manager with the national team will say, look, okay, when you go back, we'll call someone else up. That's what happened. But then if the player then turned up for the next game and played, then you have the right as a National Federation to stop them playing.
00:20:13
Ian
I never saw it happen. um And I always used to say, oh look we you can stop them playing. Everyone laughed at me because no one would ever do that because it it ruins the relationship between the clubs and the National Federation.
00:20:27
Shabaaz Mughal
And it'd be so hard because, you know, realistically, they're going to recover. know, if it's a small injury, you think they should recover by then anyway.
00:20:37
Shabaaz Mughal
So to enforce them to not play, very awkward decision, isn't it? Very awkward.
00:20:43
Jonathan Bird
Yeah, because I remember there was there was always a rumour that Alec Ferguson was, you know, there would be some knock just before international duty.
00:20:44
Ian
Yeah. oh
00:20:52
Jonathan Bird
And half so particularly if it was ah bunch of friendlies, like half his main players wouldn't wouldn't come. I mean, a lot of the big managers have been often accused of that. you think that's just, you know, there anything into that?
00:21:07
Jonathan Bird
you think so?
00:21:08
Ian
yeah Yeah, i think so. what The thing is, if you've got, you know, you can see it, you've got to understand from the from the club's point of view, is they're in a massive ah season.
00:21:20
Ian
They're, you know, they're doing really well. They're in all the competitions. there's It's game, game, game, game game to twice a week, you know, into sort of February, March. And then the March friendlies come up.
00:21:33
Ian
There's two friendlies at the end of March. and you're thinking you know my star players are going to go and play for england and or or yeah we're in the champions league but latter stages we're in the fa cup you know we're near the top of the league it's very you know i understand completely understand it
00:21:41
Jonathan Bird
and and we And we're still in two cups and we' you know we're up in the league, so yeah.
00:21:42
Shabaaz Mughal
Thank you.
Ethical challenges for club doctors
00:21:56
Ian
um
00:21:57
Jonathan Bird
but But then are you are you then colluding with, you know, as you as a medic, you can't, you know, that, I mean, that's, that's very, that's unethical to lie about a patient's medical status.
00:21:57
Ian
yeah
00:22:10
Ian
Yeah, well, I don't think it's... I mean, yeah, well, it's... And that's... So this is the life of a club doctor, Jonathan, and it's something that people don't talk about and people don't know about.
00:22:24
Ian
This is the life of of any of staff involved in, you know, your you're often at the mercy of things that you... You don't always appreciate if you're not there.
00:22:36
Ian
It's very, very tough. I mean, and if a player says to me, I've got a really tight hamstring and it's really painful. um What can you do? You can scan it.
00:22:48
Ian
And, you know, that's what you usually do. And that's what I always did. But if you see something on the scan, then you're stuck, aren't you? You're completely stuck because that's an injury. But actually, you know, normally you wouldn't, you probably wouldn't have scanned it because the player probably wouldn't have said much.
00:23:06
Ian
Right.
00:23:08
Jonathan Bird
but But what why he's saying is that why sand big big because he doesn't want to go away on international duty. i always thought players were it was the clubs pulling the players back, or do you reckon some players don't actively don't want to go on international duty?
00:23:20
Ian
It's a bit of both. you know It's often the case that that players players will turn up and you know all they do is sit on the bench. They train in and sit on the bench and they think, you know i've had two weeks I've got two weeks away from my family.
00:23:36
Ian
I'm not going to see my family for two weeks.
00:23:36
Shabaaz Mughal
Thanks.
00:23:38
Ian
I'm not going to play. it And they're only friendlies even then. you know There's a small ah number of players that will feel like that. um And you know I can't blame them.
00:23:49
Jonathan Bird
I mean, do remember Roy King thought that the Ireland's activities were just a shambolic?
00:23:55
Ian
Yeah.
00:23:55
Jonathan Bird
can't remember what it was the World Cup, wasn't it? can't remember which one it was.
00:23:58
Ian
It was South Korea.
00:23:59
Jonathan Bird
the and Was it?
00:24:00
Ian
It was Korea.
00:24:01
Jonathan Bird
Was that o two
00:24:02
Ian
Yeah.
00:24:04
Jonathan Bird
um And he did did tv went home early? He so certainly, he'd made a hu he was yeah he was just he thought it was appalling but um to come as a Premier League player to an international ah set-up. And the set-up was, he said it was it was a joke.
00:24:18
Ian
I mean, part of the Gareth Southgate thing was was quoted. I mean, I wasn't there when Gareth Southgate was there. But part of the of the, certainly the narrative from the FA and and on ah in the media was that Gareth Southgate made it so that players really were desperate to go.
Player demands during international duties
00:24:38
Ian
And it and it maybe wasn't always like that.
00:24:40
Shabaaz Mughal
I think there's there's a lot in that though Ian, because I remember some national teams, the players were so keen to go, were so happy to go, and even if they were injured, they'd go and have treatment there, and we'd sort do an agreement, okay, you can go, you can have your treatment, because when there' ah when players are injured, sometimes a change of scenery for the treatment is great for them as well.
00:24:47
Ian
Yeah? Yeah.
00:25:02
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah.
00:25:03
Ian
And they like to see they like see their teammates. If if they're from a, you know, you plant someone at AFC Bournemouth and they're from an African country, their first language isn't English.
00:25:05
Shabaaz Mughal
yeah
00:25:15
Ian
An international break comes along and suddenly they're, you know, they can go and spend the time with their teammates and their country folk and, you know,
00:25:21
Jonathan Bird
Thank
00:25:24
Ian
and enjoy their, you know, revisiting their culture. i can I can completely get it. And that often happens, Shabazz.
00:25:31
Shabaaz Mughal
and
00:25:31
Ian
I agree. You're saying, I don't think you should really go, yeah, I'm going.
00:25:35
Shabaaz Mughal
yeah
00:25:35
Ian
Yeah, no, don't think, look, we don't really want you to go, well, I'm going. And that, what can you do? You can't do much about it.
00:25:40
Shabaaz Mughal
in We've got to remember that obviously the players club sign often are internationals and you know they're signing them because they are internationals and they do well at international level.
00:25:51
Ian
Yeah.
00:25:53
Shabaaz Mughal
So you want them to succeed, they want them to go and and succeed ah international level.
00:25:55
Jonathan Bird
Thank you.
00:25:59
Shabaaz Mughal
and For the player as well, it' I think, does it add to their contract? who I mean, I don't know the ins and outs, but expect that the more caps you have, the more of an international standing you have, the more you can...
00:26:13
Ian
Yeah, i mean, the next next time you have next time you're transferred, you know, you're signing on for, you might be more.
00:26:14
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah?
00:26:17
Shabaaz Mughal
yeah
00:26:20
Ian
And, you know, you're right about, i mean, Arsene Wenger used to say, ah you know, that there were managers in the Premier League that moaned that the African Nations Cup was on in the middle of the season.
00:26:32
Ian
And he always used to say, well, if you don't like it, don't sign them.
00:26:36
Jonathan Bird
Yeah, exactly. and yeah you can't if you if you If you support a club like Arsenal or Man United or Spurs or any Premier League side which has potential to win the Champions League, then you're obviously going to end up with a load of players who are good enough to play for their countries.
00:26:53
Ian
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:54
Jonathan Bird
So you can't have it both ways.
00:26:55
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:56
Ian
Yeah, exactly. and So, you know, it it's very it's always that sort of thing. And and you know yeah you know you know, way out, before the camps happen, you know exactly what's going to happen.
00:27:09
Ian
You know certain players are going to go, no matter what the situation is.
00:27:11
Jonathan Bird
Thank you.
00:27:13
Ian
And, you know, often, you know, I've certainly spoken to players and said, so what do you want to do? You've got an injury. you know You may be in a tournament, you may not make the the group games, and you know players don't always well well will make a decision based on their general welfare.
00:27:31
Ian
The other thing that you know we don't talk much about is what an emotional um load going to an international campus, you know, if you're a player, if you look at Max who played for us.
00:27:46
Jonathan Bird
Max Downing.
00:27:47
Ian
Yeah, ah but that Max that one played at the weekend. Now, let's say, for instance, Thomas Tuchel was watching the game and thought he was a fantastic player and got him into the England squad just to familiarise him with the senior England squad. OK, so that happens.
00:28:02
Ian
What an emotional load that is for him. All his heroes are playing in that team.
00:28:07
Jonathan Bird
Do you remember that happened with Theo Walcott?
00:28:09
Ian
Yeah.
00:28:10
Jonathan Bird
He was 17 and went away with Sven, didn't he
00:28:16
Ian
Yes.
00:28:17
Jonathan Bird
um And it was completely mad.
00:28:17
Ian
The building woke up.
00:28:20
Jonathan Bird
um And it was completely mad. It didn't play a single minute.
00:28:24
Ian
Didn't play a minute. And that's the thing. so So whereas he could have spent the summer, you know, conditioning himself and getting himself strong enough and able enough to cope with a long Premier League season, he was just doing normal training with the England team.
00:28:40
Ian
And then on match days and match days minus one and match days plus one, less training because they're traveling and doing all that stuff. So, you know, it's it's very, very difficult to it's so generalize and, you know, you have to take each case as it comes.
00:28:56
Ian
But, you know, the top pros, they're going play for their national team if they can.
00:29:03
Shabaaz Mughal
And who's to say, you know, we talk about injuries, so, and clubs are always, or fans are sort of, or we don't want them going away, they might get injured, but they might get injured training in the, if they stay behind, so this might get injured thing, I think, is is ah is there in any
Inherent training risks for players
00:29:20
Shabaaz Mughal
situation. It's not like they're going to have two weeks off. They're still going to train.
00:29:23
Ian
Yeah.
00:29:23
Shabaaz Mughal
They're still going to be part of the the players who don't go away on international duty do not have a holiday.
00:29:24
Ian
Yeah.
00:29:29
Shabaaz Mughal
They're still in training every day.
00:29:29
Ian
yeah Yes.
00:29:31
Shabaaz Mughal
Yeah.
00:29:33
Ian
okay Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, you know, i mean, last year, Kai Havertz injured himself on ah the training camp in Dubai, didn't he?
00:29:43
Ian
don't remember. what you know so you think it's great, we go to the you know warm weather and do a bit of warm weather training and get ready for the second half the season and you get a drastic injury like that. So, I mean, the that that's that whole thing about being on the edge, isn't it?
00:30:02
Ian
You know, top players are always on the edge physically.
00:30:05
Shabaaz Mughal
Thank
00:30:05
Ian
The trouble is you don't know where the edge is. And sometimes they fall off the edge, they get an injury for no apparent reason. And it's probably because they, that was, you know, their cusp, if you like.
00:30:20
Jonathan Bird
Yeah, yeah. um OK, well, look, I think, um my God, we've been talking for half an hour. So normally it's only 20 minutes. So I think we've we've covered
Conclusion and listener feedback invitation
00:30:31
Jonathan Bird
a lot there.
00:30:31
Jonathan Bird
And it looks like, yeah, Bruno Gamares has scored, isn't he? So yeah, come on the tune.
00:30:36
Ian
Yes, two, one.
00:30:39
Jonathan Bird
um Look, so that was a very interesting chat. um We've hardly covered half of what we were planning on covering. We didn't talk really at all about return to sport.
00:30:52
Jonathan Bird
but were going to talk about Madison's ACL and return to sport. So there's plenty of stuff for us to talk about next time. um And whilst I'm desperately trying to remember our email, do if you would like to us to cover any particular sub-subjects, theinjurytimepod at gmail.com.
00:31:12
Jonathan Bird
um And on that note, until next time, um we will try to make, I know we haven't been out we haven't had one for a couple of weeks, so we'll try make these a bit more regular. um And so until next time, it's goodbye from me goodbye from Ian, and goodbye from Shabazz.
00:31:28
Ian
Bye all.
00:31:29
Shabaaz Mughal
Bye, folks.