Transcript
Danny Price: All right. hey everyone, welcome back to episode seven of the Table Talk Recap Podcast. This episode, we're going be going over the sermon from Mountain View. We're in the middle of a series going over just the EFCA statement of faith.
Danny Price: So this is going to be our fourth sermon that we're going over in this middle the series. So the last sermon that Shane preached was on Jesus Christ and then a little bit about the work of Christ as in some of our salvation. And then this next one is the Holy Spirit, which is the one that he just went over. so Shane did a great job teaching the message.
Danny Price: And I think, you know, admittedly, I think by Shane that this is this is a tough one to go over just because there's a lot of thought about the Holy Spirit. It's a controversial topic for some people, um which I thought he did a great job going over. I'm not just saying that just to be nice.
Danny Price: This is definitely a great sermon. I'm going to go ahead and read. the statement of faith um just on the Holy Spirit so that we're all on the same page with what the EFCA is kind of putting out. So it says this under the Holy Spirit, we believe that the Holy Spirit and all that he does glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ.
Danny Price: He convicts the world of its guilt. He regenerates sinners and in him, they are baptized into union. with Christ and adopted as heirs in the family of God. He also indwells, illuminates, guides, equips, and empowers believers for Christ-like living and service.
Danny Price: Awesome. Shane, is there anything that you wanted to add from the message that any key concepts or anything that you were like, this was this was either difficult or you feel like you really like landed that well?
Shane: Um, I, I appreciate it. And I actually got a lot of compliments on it because it wasn't, um, it wasn't an easy sermon for me. Um, you know, you and I were talking a little bit of it and I, I have to confess, I, I'm such a pragmatic person that the, the intricacies of how the Holy Spirit works is not something I study a lot. And I'm also
Shane: not even sure
Shane: I have a difficult time knowing the tuning of my soul, I guess, you know, of like how much is the spirit at work and how much is my conscience.
Danny Price: Interesting.
Shane: And so, so even our discussion is going to be, it's just, I, I, uh, it's going to be a little open-ended probably for some people, probably it might be frustrating to people.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. And again, the whole point of this conversation, that why we're doing this, we're edifying believers, obviously, like that's, you know, first and foremost, but some of this stuff is going to be kind of that casual setting of like, hey, you're at the dinner table with us or you're, you know, we're sitting in the coffee shop, we're talking through things.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And some of these things might not get to completion. It's not a full, and you know, full encompassing and like study. And like, this is exactly where we, are even some of the things I might say, or Shane might say, or like, we're still working through this stuff, which is the beauty of, you know, the Christian faith and getting to know God better.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: So we'll jump in.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: is there anything, sorry, didn't want to cut you off. is there anything else?
Shane: Well, just going to say just another note too.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And I think that's why as a, as a pastor, for me, I challenge, I've been challenging myself the last few years to do a lot more actually going through a book and, or going through something like this, the, ah the ESC's doctrinal statement where it's all laid out that way.
Shane: I don't get to choose the stuff that I'm already strong in. I have to stretch myself and thereby hopefully stretching the congregation as well.
Danny Price: That's a great...
Shane: So.
Danny Price: That's a great, so kind of a sidetrack, but that really pushes you to get into stuff and fully kind of figure out where you're at. And also, if you were just teaching your your hobby horse, like you're like, oh, this is I'm so good at teaching this.
Shane: Yeah, because...
Danny Price: I love to teach on you know whatever it is.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: You kind of stay within your wheelhouse and you never, you mean, you're only exploring a certain part of scripture. so that's that's mature of you. That's tough. um um Yeah, that's difficult.
Shane: Yeah, and i've you know I've got enough years under my belt. i could I could just stick within the stuff I know pretty well and ride the wave out, you know?
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: ha, ha.
Danny Price: Yeah, it's right around the corner. I'm just kidding. Anyways, so really quick. so So we got to get to these questions. um
Shane: you know
Danny Price: The first question and parts parts of these were from David Finley. He sent in some questions too. So is the Holy Spirit, is that just our conscience essentially? And are all convictions that we feel, are they from the Holy Spirit?
Shane: Man, that's a tough one. I would say the Holy Spirit...
Shane: It oversees our conscience. i don't know if that' the you know that makes sense, but I think everyone has a conscience.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I think regardless of you're a Christian or not, you have some sense of right or wrong. Some of that is what you've been The culture you're in what tells you right and wrong, what's right and wrong.
Shane: Some of it is the way you were raised. Some of it is, i i do believe, in innate you know sense that God gives us of of what's right and wrong. But then the Holy Spirit...
Shane: kind of if If you're a Christian, your conscience, I would say, is definitely overseen by the Holy Spirit, but then the Holy Spirit will guide past that.
Danny Price: Right. Hmm.
Shane: An example that comes to my mind is a missionary friend who was telling me a story where they... um they brought they brought Christ to this area that was a polygamist area.
Shane: And they didn't know what to do with it because if these people all of a sudden started seeing that they should only be married to one wife, now what? They're going to divorce these other women and and leave them out in the cold. and um So they kind of were were stuck at it. But after a few years of following Christ, some of the heads of the tribe,
Shane: started seeing like, Hey, they they started be being convicted that this practice was wrong, but their culture, they, would they, so they didn't learn that by culture. They didn't learn that by even someone teaching it to them. They learned it by studying the word of God and the Holy spirit.
Shane: I believe that's when the whole end, the Holy spirit using that and convicting them. So, um,
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I don't know if that makes sense, but, but I would say, you know, and the your conscience won't always lead you to do the godly thing, I guess, you know,
Danny Price: It does.
Danny Price: Yeah. What about when you're guilty? What about when you feel guilty? Is that always the Holy Spirit? Or like when your conscience feels guilty about something that... Is that God?
Shane: I think the Holy Spirit uses guilt. I don't think guilt is always the Holy Spirit. Um, because we feel guilty sometimes about things that are not even,
Shane: wrong. Um, you know, uh, I'll give you you know, my kids at times will still feel guilty and this is maybe they've done something wrong, but they'll still carry a guilt.
Shane: Even though I say you're forgiven. um even though I say, you know, honestly, I'm not even mad at you. You didn't, I could see why you thought that was wrong, but, but it really wasn't. and that's okay.
Shane: Um, or or whatever So sometimes we feel guilty and it's not even necessarily in line with the Holy Spirit, but I definitely think the Holy Spirit uses guilt.
Shane: So I don't know if that makes sense.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: I would say that conscience and guilt are tools that the Holy Spirit uses, but they're not always synonymous.
Danny Price: Got it. Yeah. i would know i i would line up that way too. I think that's my personal conviction. And I also think... it kind of you know ties in with your conscience too. I think you can deaden your conscience a little bit.
Danny Price: Like you can ignore, you can ignore things so much that you're like, and I think the Holy Spirit, a little bit of that too, like God's prompting you for something.
Shane: Absolutely.
Danny Price: And I think you can continue to resist and resist and go, you know what? I'm not going to listen to that. You know, the Holy Spirit has convicted me on whatever that is, you know, like your example, like this is Aborigine or whoever, the the you know polygamist, um not Aborigine, Papua New Guinea, wherever that was.
Shane: I love that you just made that he's an aborigine. I didn't give him anything.
Danny Price: and No, i just thought for some reason, think of Aberdeen. I'm thinking of Papua New Guinea.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It does. It all, it all ties to together anyways, but you know, they could have felt that from this Holy spirit and by reading the Bible and been like, you know what?
Shane: I love
Danny Price: I'm not going to change my life. And I think after a while you can start to sear your conscience a little bit and harden your heart to the point where you're like, I'm not even listening. Even if there was, you know, so it you know, the Holy spirit tapping on your door a little bit and you're just like, you know, I'm not listening to that at all.
Danny Price: So interesting.
Shane: Oh, yeah. No, I definitely think we we can sear that. and You know, I mean, if we, um there's times where we're, um like, if you keep giving into a sin, like, there's a difference between living in sin and sinning, right?
Shane: And if you keep giving into a sin to a point where you just begin to live in it, Yeah, I think youre you're you're cutting off, you're searing off the Holy Spirit's convicting in your life. and
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: um And then all of a sudden you're you're hardened to it. so Which I think we're in danger to a lot of that in our culture right now.
Danny Price: no it's
Danny Price: Right, right. All right. So that was a, that was a part, most of those were David's questions. So thanks David for sending those in. um Next question that I had written down, and this is a, we touched on a little bit last week, but I wanted to kind of revisit it um just since we're talking about the Holy Spirit.
Danny Price: um Have you ever seen someone speak in tongues? That was kind of the first part of that question. But then in the message, you do kind of go over, a lot of people think of the purpose of the Holy Spirit is like the gift of tongues or like,
Danny Price: like that that feeling of the Holy Spirit and that like outpouring of someone having a very external gift. Do you think that specific gift is useful or might be useful today? Or is that something that should, that should have ceased, that should have been done kind of like we talked about last week with cessationism?
Shane: um i I don't believe that...
Danny Price: Sorry, yeah, that was a lot.
Shane: Yeah, no, that's okay. I don't believe that... Those gifts have ceased. um like so i We did touch a little bit about last year week that i there are some that it would hold sensationalist theology that would say that at the end of the early church, at the end of the ah ah apostolic era, um gifts of tongues and healings and and all that of that have ceased.
Shane: I don't fall into that category. All I'm saying is I can understand how they do if they've never experienced that. I also have never really experienced it. so ah But but i i know believers who i give I have a high regard and high respect for who have experienced So, um, so therefore I don't, I don't discredit it.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Um, I have been around people speaking in tongues, um, on several occasions. I have never seen it. It practiced the way I see it laid out in scripture.
Shane: um I wish that if it's going to be if it's going to be practiced, if someone's to speak in tongues in a public setting, there should be an interpreter.
Danny Price: Which is what? Briefly, briefly.
Shane: It's a different person God should be gifting to interpret, and that person should be able to interpret and and edify the body with it. The different times I've heard people speaking in tongues, I've been in services where multiple people just started speaking in tongues um and nobody clarified anything. And I was a young believer at that time and it like,
Shane: freaked me out.
Danny Price: Freak you out a little bit.
Shane: Um, and then, um, I've been around where people, I've been a few services where people will just speak in tongues randomly.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
Shane: And then there again, no one, no one interprets it. Um, so I per per personally, unless I, I've never been shown otherwise where no, that's not the only biblical way it's supposed to be handled in assembly.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: Um, so I would have to see that. Otherwise that's my way that I, my theology would say that, no, you need to have an interpreter if it's done publicly.
Shane: Now as a private prayer language, I think that's a whole different thing. And I know people that say that have that gift and they practice that.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah, I think I would agree. um i'm deaf I'm definitely not. I don't believe fully in cessationism, but like the flip side of that, I was doing some research on this a little bit, is the continuationist side, which is that the gifts are all fully practiced and they're normative.
Danny Price: I hesitate to say normative in the sense that I think that there's a lot of gifts that God gave the body believers, specifically at that time, kind of, you know, to kickstart the gospel, to kickstart the church,
Danny Price: And I, yeah, and I've seen a lot of the verses that people use to say that the gifts have ceased. I have a hard time. It's, it's, I go back and forth on it. I have a hard time saying they fully have just because I don't see it clearly like laid out.
Danny Price: But then again, you know, I grew up my background, like growing up for the first few years of my life, I went to a vineyard church, ah which for those of you who are listening, you might not know that it's a pretty charismatic, pretty almost Pentecostal type church.
Danny Price: And kind of part of that, like Jesus movement. Yeah. So I saw a lot of tongues. I saw a lot of, lot of, a lot of things. um And it was really interesting. And I think it definitely, i was like, that's part of like what it means to be a Christian is if you get baptized by the Holy Spirit, it means you get, you get the gift of tongues. Like it kind of goes hand in hand. No one actually told me that I'm not attributing that to them. I'm just saying that's what I kind of felt.
Danny Price: And since then, i you know, my dad, my dad had spoken tongues before and certain people that I knew, but I've never seen it done in it. Like you said, in a church setting, and my dad wouldn't do it in that setting, but I've never seen it done in a setting where I'm like, wow, there was an interpreter. It made sense. I understand what's going on again. Like you were saying, it's very, it's almost like a lot of chaos and confusion. And I feel like the Holy spirit is not,
Danny Price: trying to bring confusion, if that makes sense. So that's kind of that's kind of where i land on it.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: um And again, I'm um'm not firmly in that yet. I still am doing more research and trying to get dig into the word more on it. But that's kind of where I line up right now.
Shane: Yeah. And that's where I land, land to, and yeah, and there's more, you could get into healings and all that kind of stuff too.
Danny Price: oh
Danny Price: Oh, yeah.
Shane: And, but don't know if we want to have, if we have time for that.
Danny Price: No, we don't. I mean, we don't have to get, i guess, into healings, I guess. and Just, I guess, you know, as long as if you believe in full cessationism, you don't believe any of that. If you believe in some form of continuationism, you believe that that still is going on. So moving on a little bit.
Danny Price: um You mentioned, and you talked about that the Holy Spirit, and I think it's in the statement of faith. I'm going pull it up really quick. Just the the regeneration. Yeah. he It says in the second line, the third line, he regenerates sinners and in him, they are baptized with union in Christ and adopted as heirs in the family of God.
Shane: Thank
Danny Price: So this this is another, this is a, we're hitting all the big stuff on this podcast. The question I had was, Does that come before our faith or after? Is regeneration something that Jesus starts in us and then we respond as like, like faith is a gift from like to us from God and we respond that way?
Danny Price: Or do we put our faith in God and then through that, the Holy Spirit then regenerates us? Does that, does that make sense? The distinction? This is kind of like more that Calvinistic, Arminianistic.
Shane: Yeah, it makes sense.
Danny Price: Yeah, it's a lot.
Shane: Yeah, it makes sense. You want my answer?
Danny Price: I do. Yeah.
Shane: Yes.
Danny Price: Wait.
Shane: Well, depending on where you land. It's kind of a yes to both. So I used to be what I would, I would have called a pretty full Arminianist.
Danny Price: Oh, geez.
Shane: Um, and an Arminianist would definitely say that faith precedes regeneration. Um, that the, the Holy Spirit renews you once you've opened your heart.
Shane: Um, I, uh, have moved. I wouldn't call myself a Calvinist a reform, um, yet, but I'm definitely kind of more open to it.
Shane: And that theology would say, no, it's the very spirit of God that opens your eyes, that enables you to believe he makes you new.
Danny Price: OK.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Shane: And then you are able to believe as a result of that. So, um, yeah, you know, I, I guess where I land is, i don't,
Shane: No. um You know, it's, it's, you know, my own experience, man, you know, I guess you could say that.
Shane: somehow I was dead, even though i was very much opening myself up or God was opening me up for 18 months to two year and a half years before I was made anew by the Holy Spirit.
Shane: Um, or I misunderstood all that. And I was actually born again already. And I just didn't know. I, I don't know, but my own experience, I was definitely opened up to the gospel without actually receiving it.
Shane: Um, and so that's,
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: that I don't know, you know, but i you know, I still had doubts and all that kind of thing. But I, you know, I, so that's, it's just a really, really tough one for me because I i just believe that at some level we have that ability to respond to God um and the ability to reject God, that does God does not force himself on the believer.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: um And I know many, many people who would strongly disagree with me.
Danny Price: Right.
Danny Price: Right. Yeah, this is this is a hotly debated topic. um No, yeah, that's and that's what I put it in there, just because, and again, I'm the same as you. I have pretty strong thoughts on a lot of things.
Danny Price: And this is one of those things where I have a lot of feelings and I don't want my feelings on something to take over like what scripture says and just like I'm just I don't want to ignore this almost ignore something because I don't like the way it sounds because I think it sounds nicer to say oh well yeah then you put your faith in God and not that it was something that was done before you even had a chance to respond to it um but no that's that was that was that was a good you know kind of some summation of everything um I would encourage you know people listening
Shane: Yeah.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: I did this myself. You can use... I mean, ChatGPT is so insanely valuable for some of this. I would caution you to make sure you're cross-checking things and not just taking ChatGPT, especially on theology, things at face value.
Danny Price: um But I did do a lot of research on this and looking... through the Bible. And it's interesting how both the Arminian kind of theology and the Calvinist more like reformed theology on this. Everybody's trying to use scripture. It's just a lot of people are focusing on different scriptures because they're, I mean, I threw lists and lists. There's so many verses that go, you know, unless you're born again, you can't see the kingdom. That's like John three, three. to pull some of these up right now.
Danny Price: Um, Everyone who believes that Jesus Christ is is Lord has been born again of God. And then even like in Ephesians, we were dead, but then God made us alive. And though those are kind of like paraphrases.
Danny Price: But then you jump right to like the Arminian view. And it talks about like in John 1 again, it says to all who did receive him, he gave them the right to become children of God. So like, okay, it seems like there's maybe like a receiving...
Danny Price: you know, kind of like that faith that's the preceding regeneration.
Shane: uh-huh yeah
Danny Price: So it's interesting. Or yeah, then in Galatians, another one, did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or, and then it's like opposed to that, or by, by the hearing of faith or hearing with faith. So,
Danny Price: It's not a cut and dry issue. and again And again, for all those listening, i really hope you guys, you know if you're if you're this is the first time you're hearing about this, this might be blowing your mind. But I'm guessing that for a lot of people, you've heard arguments surrounding this.
Danny Price: ah There's a lot here. And I'd encourage you to do a lot of your own research and to dig in. you know As long as you're digging into scripture and not just getting lost in your belly button, just into your own feelings. But you're you know you're going into scripture. There's a lot here.
Danny Price: um Is there anything else you want to say about that before we move on? Are you kind of good to leave leave it land let land there?
Shane: yeah just Yeah, just that, you know, for the person, at least like myself, who still leans towards there is some level of us responding to God by our own free will, eight I think one of the reactions that people have to that is that, well, you're taking away from the sovereignty of God.
Shane: And, you know, I, I, in no way is that my intention, you know, but, but yeah, I mean, there's, I, but then I also do go to verses where it says that, you know, he he is patient because he doesn't want anyone to not respond to him, you know, and he, he wants all people to come to know him and, you know, all all the, so.
Danny Price: hmm hmm
Shane: So at some level, I think it just comes down to, we don't know. I really do believe, you know, I think it was Chuck Smith who said, you know, you got to look at the whole thing as like two ends of a rope hanging over a beam. And if you hold on just completely one of those ropes, it it falls apart. You know, you got to hold both.
Shane: um And, and I think at some level, I lean towards, we, we got to hold both. We got, it has to be an area that we just say there's the mystery of God. And, um, you know, but like said, I know a lot of friends who've done a lot more research than I would have that would, would say, no, that's completely wrong. You, you, you know, you hold one, but
Danny Price: Right. Right. Yeah. And again, this, the whole point of this was going over the Holy spirit. So I didn't want to get, you know, I don't want to get too, I feel bad.
Shane: yeah, yeah. It's not a salvation.
Danny Price: i feel bad. This wasn't all to be about salvation and and things, but you know, it does says the Holy spirit does regenerate in this, even in the statement of faith. So I did want to touch on that. Cause that is like you said, in the sermon, regenerat regenerate is a big word.
Danny Price: And if you've never heard that word before, you're like, what is that? What does that even mean?
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Um, Cool. I'm going to leave it there. And if anyone wants to reach out to me personally, I have a bunch of resources on both sides that I would push you towards, whether it's podcasts or YouTube videos or just verses.
Danny Price: ah I'd love to you know wrestle with that with you. um So the next question, how does a person experience the power of the Holy Spirit? And what is the evidence in your life that you have the Holy Spirit working in you?
Shane: Well, I go to, you know, back to Galatians, to the fruit of the spirit, Galatians 5, you know, ah love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, gentleness, and self-control.
Shane: You know, do you see those things growing in your life?
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Shane: And if not, there's a really good chance if you're being really honest, you are not walking in step with the spirit. You're not daily opening yourself up and and receiving ah the mercies of God in your life and allowing,
Shane: and asking him to, to keep moving you in towards sanctification. And, you know, um you know, the Bible is pretty clear. They'll know us by our fruit. You know, you can tell a tree by its fruit.
Shane: And so how do you experience the working of the Holy Spirit in your life? I really think you should be able to look as as fruit growing in your life.
Danny Price: Hmm. Hmm.
Shane: um you know, that now, as far as experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit, you know, I kind of alluded to this in the sermon you know, If you don't walk in the, if you're not surrendering daily, you know, that is the power. The power of the spirit is the daily movement, but he, I believe does work in very powerful. Like we know extraordinarily powerful things that have happened in people's lives as a result of the spirit, but it only comes from a daily surrender.
Danny Price: Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. That, that last part I think is good. Cause the first part I think is a little easier for me to understand because you know, like you'll see evidence because there'll there'll be evidence of the Holy spirit through the the fruit of the Holy spirit.
Shane: Thank you.
Danny Price: The power thing has always thrown me a little bit for a loop because i think a lot of people take that to mean like, like kind of like, like the power that Jesus had, like I can heal people. I can do this. you know, going to be like Moses. I'm going to part the waves, like big,
Danny Price: huge, like almost like miracle type of you know things that the Holy Spirit's providing. And because of that, it's kind of thrown me because so i I either think if something happens in my life that's How do I say this? If something happens in my life, that's good.
Danny Price: And like, it's, that's decent. It's easy for me to second guess and be like, was that the Holy spirit working in my life? Because I'm a Christian and believer. Is that like a, this, this good thing thing that happens, you know, that's, is that God working things together for me? Or is that just coincidentally stuff?
Danny Price: What's the power? Like what, what in my life is showing the power of the power of the Holy spirit. Does that make sense? Kind of the wrestle there.
Shane: Yeah. Well, but I would say that, yeah, I mean, I think if we're looking for Jesus type stuff to happen in our life,
Shane: we're probably, we're probably missing the picture a little bit. Um, I, I would say what I look at it when I think of the power of the holy spirit working in people's lives today, it's people doing things that on their own, they would not have the power to do.
Shane: Um, for instance, ah someone drunk driving hits your wife and kid and kills them and you having the power to offer that person forgiveness and literally saying, Hey, I'm, I'm, I forgive you, you know?
Danny Price: And.
Shane: um And, you know, one, I want good things for you, you know? And I've seen believers do that, you know, and I, you know, and I pray that I would have that power of the Holy Spirit in that in those kinds of situations.
Shane: um You know, the, I believe, honestly, I i believe coming and planting this church, i I truly believe was a power of the Holy Spirit thing and i'm in my life. um You know, there was,
Shane: a lot about what happened here in the first three years that everything about me said I needed to go home. I wanted, I wanted to go back to California. Um, you know, very scary moments for the family and, um, worrying about the kids, you know, uh, not finding uh,
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: a home and worrying about what was going to happen to them, you know, as far as, you know, feeling accepted here and all that stuff that I really go to. It was the times when I really sought God that I would just get this deep conviction that you know, there is nothing else for you. This is where you have to stay.
Shane: And so I, I think the, of those things, I think people need to look for those things, things that they knew, know on their own strength, they, they never did.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: or would have done.
Danny Price: Hmm. but's I like that. that's That's a little bit more of clarification. And I don't, I'm not saying I was expecting myself to like do these miracles. I was more just saying, it's easy for me to see that as the power of the Holy Spirit.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Like when, you know, the disciples and the apostles are doing things.
Shane: Yeah. It talks about the power flowing through Jesus or yeah
Danny Price: you know And you see the Holy Spirit you know and the disciples and the early apostles. So it's very easy to see those things, the very external things. The internal stuff, it's harder. Again, I i guess it's more of just like an external, like it's very easy to see evidence kind of stuff.
Danny Price: And it's hard for me. Again, like you were saying at the beginning, this is a difficult thing talk about. Yeah. talk about
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: um
Shane: kind Let me give you an Old Testament example of just like a normal person.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: um I think of David, right? David was in the sin of Bathsheba. He goes so far as to kill her husband and he gets confronted by Nathan.
Danny Price: yep
Shane: From what I know, from what I read it, I don't think Nathan confronted him in public. I think Nathan confronted him in private. I think outside of the power of the Holy Spirit, David walks out of that room and has him secretly killed that night.
Shane: You know, by david if you look at the way David was behaving... Why not? Why not kill the that prophet? I mean, who yeah, you've already gone so far.
Danny Price: You already killed one person to cover it.
Shane: you're ah You're at the worst point of your life.
Danny Price: Interesting. Interesting. Hmm.
Shane: Now you could argue, well, David wouldn't have touched God's anointed, you know, all that. And there's there's truth to that. And because we see that earlier, but we don't see David in that period of his life. He's in a different. And then, but at that point, he repents, repenting to the point that he even,
Shane: when God, when the punishment is that baby is taken, he, he he he he's just okay. Okay. God, I, you know, I deal with that. And that's, and, and his, his life suffered as a result from that point forward.
Shane: And, you know, but he never, he never turned from God after that. And, you know, and anyway, that, so I just look at that as like an example of someone in my mind that is by the Holy Spirit that they were able to stick with that.
Danny Price: That's a great example. That is good.
Danny Price: All right. I'm pulling up these questions to kind of move forward. I want to make sure I try to hit as much as we can, just because, again, there's a lot here in this episode, I think. um Again, kind of going back to, ah guess, to set this question up,
Danny Price: It seems pretty clear in scripture that scripture teaches when you're saved, the Holy Spirit like indwells you as like a believer. And that's, you know again, with the new covenant, and we no longer have sacrifices, the whole temple curtain being split, like we're now the temple, temple and that you know the Holy Spirit indwells us as believers.
Danny Price: So I'm just kind of setting this up.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: That being said, how do we know if we've been born again? ah and And again, regardless of whether or not I'm not necessarily talking as much about Arminianism or Calvinism or any of that stuff, but just because I mean, that's the whole, ah again, that's a whole rabbit trail a little bit.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: But how do you know that you have the Holy Spirit inside of you and you're being indwelt and you're saved? um Because I can i can see, and I've seen myself do this in the past, but I can see a lot of people that I know personally having struggles with this of not being 100% And it's hard when you know the Holy Spirit, it's hard to like put your finger on exactly what that is in your life and to know for sure that you're safe. Does that make sense?
Danny Price: That was a big, big, big lead up.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I just wanted to kind of...
Shane: Well, I think one of the reasons it's hard is because the Bible is very clear.
Danny Price: like
Shane: It's just on belief. So there isn't some like, okay, I did it. I climbed that wall. I'm good. I know I'm good now because I can see I'm on the side of this wall. um
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: And I would say that's one of the great things about faith is whether we are on the Armenian side, the Calvinist side, whatever side, we'd all agree And on this, that it really, that it comes down to, do you, did you, you truly believe in what Jesus did for you?
Shane: And, um, I think the battle for so many of us as Christians is, yeah. I mean, sometimes we just go, that's too simple. Like, like yeah. there
Danny Price: It's too good to be true.
Shane: Like, yeah, it's too good to be true. And because not in every other thing in life, it is, you know, if if it's too good to be true, it's because it is too good to be true. So it's a very, very hard thing to accept. And I, you know, I believe that's a lot where that when you talk about the narrow road, where it comes down is just truly relying and accepting that. And so once you've done that,
Shane: I believe the Holy Spirit's within you. I don't, you know, and, and, you know, just because you might be have a doubt here or there, or you're struggling with something or you're mad at God or whatever that I don't think that discounts it. So.
Danny Price: That's good. ah that was good. um Yeah.
Danny Price: I think it's, yeah, again, I think it's tough for me to try to explain to someone because I've talked to friends about this exact thing and they, it's so hard to not want something ultra tangible that you've done to make yourself saved.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And it's, it's, it's very difficult to explain to someone who's having doubts and struggles and really wrestling through it. and being like, no, it really is this simple. You put your faith in God, you believe, and you will be saved.
Danny Price: and It's, it's tough. I get, hmm, me think how to, how to phrase this. This is like a follow-up. I just, a follow a little bit of a follow-up question. Do you think, and again again, I don't know if, are you going to get, and i know you talked about, we talked about last week.
Danny Price: Are you going to get into lordship salvation at all, right? Is that coming or is that
Shane: Yeah, they're um I'd have to go back and look. But yeah, I did have that in my notes of the series at some point. to look But real quick, I mean,
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: yeah Well, do you want to to get into that?
Danny Price: I don't want to get into it. It's going to take too much time right now. Maybe we'll get into that next episode. I guess the question would be like, is there's repentance have a role in that too, is if you're not repentant, if you're just saying, I believe, I believe. And then you're not the quote unquote, cheap grace type of feeling of I'm just going to keep sinning.
Danny Price: But I said, I believe I said, I have faith. So is it, am I really saved? That would be the only like rebuttal, I guess I would have that.
Shane: Well, and I guess what I would say, yeah, so I guess what I would say is that, yeah, I mean, by Peter says when they ask in Pentecost, what should we do?
Danny Price: I was trying to figure out how say that. Yeah.
Shane: He says, he actually says, repent and be baptized. That's a whole other thing we can get into. um But repent, you know, so... if you truly believe in what Jesus did, that means you're, you're no longer, there is a repentance in that and that you're no longer trying to live by your own strength. You're living by history.
Shane: Um, you're seeking to do that. So there's a repentance in that. Um, and, um, but, but I guess my question thing is I want to, i always challenge is,
Shane: Just because you still have a certain sin in your life that you haven't, over you know, doesn't mean you're not saved.
Danny Price: Yes.
Shane: Or even honestly, if you have a sin you're choosing to live in for a while. I think, you know, the Holy Spirit works in different times and in different ways. And, you know, that that's a tough one, you know. um
Danny Price: That is a tough one.
Shane: But yeah, that gets into the whole Lordship thing.
Danny Price: Yeah. And again, ah ah feel like we should, we're getting already getting a little over time with the episode, so I don't want to, keep continuing on. um A little bit of summation i did want to throw out because I feel so bad with these podcasts. we don't We don't have enough time to cover for everything.
Danny Price: i did want just to encourage everyone listening. We've been talking a lot about, we kind of worked through the first two thirds of this, you know, doctrine on the Holy Spirit. We did not get the, we talked about the regeneration and all that stuff. We didn't really get to talk about the, deal you know, and I'm just reading from this, the illumination, has the Holy Spirit guiding, him equipped um equipping us, and then giving us like Christ-like living in service.
Danny Price: I didn't really get a chance to talk about all that. I would really encourage you to go into the the scripture and really just dig into the Holy spirit and what he, what he does in our lives.
Danny Price: Cause out of all the Trinity we focus on, at least I do, we focus on the Holy spirit the least, and we don't really get a chance to really see what he does in our, in our community in the church.
Shane: and
Danny Price: And us as believers, I think we just kind of, we don't even think of him as a person. We think of him as like this wispy ghosty kind of like, Ooh, the Holy Spirit, but not really like the Holy Spirit is a person of the Trinity of the Godhead.
Danny Price: So again, i i apologize to those of you listening who were like, I want you to get more into that kind of stuff. Um, we only have so much time. I feel bad that we're not able to, kind of dive into some of the other stuff, but I'd encourage you to on your own.
Danny Price: Again, we're moving through this kind of pretty quick, um but we're at 35 minutes now. So we're going to end the episode. And again, we didn't get a chance to get to dive into every single specific of all these questions. There was a lot of meat and stuff in here. Again, reach out to Shane, reach out to myself. We both would love to talk to you about some of this stuff. If you're having questions or curious what I meant by a certain word.
Danny Price: um And yeah, we'll end the episode there. Shane, is there anything else you want to add?
Shane: No, that just, you said, it's just a lot of meat in this, this whole series. So it's going to be hard to keep them short.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, ah we apologize. But we love doing this and we're hoping this is encouraging for you guys. We'll end the episode and we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye-bye.
Shane: Bye.
