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Conversing vs. Communicating
13 Plays1 month ago
🎧 Welcome to Thoughts For Rent — the podcast where real estate gets real (and local)!
Hosted by Jenni McKenna, a Las Vegas born and raised seasoned broker, and Owner of McKenna Property Management, this show is your inside look at what’s really happening in the Vegas property management and real estate world. With over 20 years of experience herself - Jenni brings not just knowledge, but heart to the conversation.
Whether we’re talking market trends, property tips, community happenings, or just the everyday quirks of Vegas living, this podcast is all about keeping you in the know.
💬 Real talk. Local stories. Professional insight – provided from a company who has their boots on the ground and hearts in the community.
In this episode, we’re covering the difference between conversing and communicating. This week's episode was inspired by the book 'We Need to Talk: How to Have Conversations that Matter' by Celeste Headlee.
McKenna Property Management, proudly managing Las Vegas homes since 2005 (and loving every minute of it).
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Website: McKennaPropertyManagement.com
Phone: 702-434-HOME (4663)
Owner/Broker: Jenni McKenna B.29819
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Thoughts for Rent'
00:00:20
Irelynn Zurflueh
Here we are, ladies and gentlemen, for Thoughts for Rent, our podcast, Realtors Keeping It Real, where we get together and we talk about things in life, things in real estate, things in Las Vegas, things in the world.
00:00:33
Irelynn Zurflueh
And I'm Max Zerfloo, along with Jenny McKenna, the queen of real estate. No, I'm not queen real estate. That's what I call you. You are the queen of real estate. I don't even sell real estate anymore. I went to a panel yesterday and listened to four very strong real estate women.
00:00:50
Irelynn Zurflueh
Good. And you're better than all of Women should take over the world. Anyway, that's why I call you the queen.
Life's Challenges: Ragnar Race Analogy
00:00:57
Irelynn Zurflueh
But it's Thoughts for Rent, ladies and gentlemen, because Jenny runs a company called McKenna Property Management and manages so many properties.
00:01:06
Irelynn Zurflueh
Hard to imagine. Over 1,300, actually. And that's got to keep you moving, moving and shaking. It does. We were just saying before we got on the podcast that life is crazy.
00:01:18
Irelynn Zurflueh
It's just sometimes it could just beat you down. knife I feel like, feel like the, it's true. I feel like life right now is, you know, winning.
00:01:29
Irelynn Zurflueh
No, but don't say that. It's the little marks that you make, you know, in Ragnar, when you run and you kill somebody and As you pass them, you get to put the kills on your van.
00:01:39
Irelynn Zurflueh
Yes. I feel like there's life and there's Jenny right now. And I feel like today life has the set the mark. First of all, don't talk to me about the kills in Ragnar. They called me the kill maker because I got passed more than.
00:01:53
Irelynn Zurflueh
bunch people that just ate Taco Bell. um What are we talking about today, Max? Besides the fact that life is can can kind of one you. First of all, life's not winning. know I know that? Because you're six feet above and not six feet under.
00:02:05
Irelynn Zurflueh
So you don't fail until you quit, my friend. I'm not quitting. But we're talking about something today of interest to everybody in the world.
Conversing vs. Communicating
00:02:15
Irelynn Zurflueh
And it's all about conversing versus communicating.
00:02:22
Irelynn Zurflueh
And I talk to my team about this all the time. So I think a lot of people probably will like to hear about this because we have what I think in the business world, kind of a division.
00:02:36
Irelynn Zurflueh
Just to make it simple, it's old school style, new school style. The new school style, I like to say they like to do a lot of communicating. They communicate really well.
00:02:47
Irelynn Zurflueh
They communicate via email. They communicate via text. They are communicators. But I think what they lack is the skill of conversation. And I think conversation is what builds relationships.
00:03:02
Irelynn Zurflueh
Wonderful. I don't disagree with you. And i don't think it's age necessarily. I agree with you that people now would prefer to text and email and call and talk to somebody.
00:03:14
Irelynn Zurflueh
therefore limiting their ability to converse. But I know some old people that communicate and don't converse. And by this we mean, and we got to give some credit to Celeste Headley. We heard a podcast about a book she wrote, the book called We Need to Talk.
00:03:31
Irelynn Zurflueh
And that kind of brought us to this topic today, so we should probably give her a shout out. And that book she wrote was in 2015, and it is still absolutely The content is, it's dated. Jenny, she could have wrote the book in 1920. It doesn't matter. It's true. Because people in the world don't listen enough.
00:03:54
Irelynn Zurflueh
And in order to converse with somebody, you have to listen.
The Art of Listening
00:03:57
Irelynn Zurflueh
And I've known you, been married to you for 32 years, and you and I have people in our lives that we recognize as pretty poor listeners.
00:04:06
Irelynn Zurflueh
Yes. And you and I, at times, I'm sure, have been poor listeners. We all come across this with our children and with our spouses. We want to communicate what we want to say more than we want to be involved in a conversation.
00:04:19
Irelynn Zurflueh
Well, what Celeste said, which I think hit home to me is when anybody is having a conversation with me, for some reason, and this is DNA, so it made me feel better that it's not just me.
00:04:30
Irelynn Zurflueh
You immediately you start thinking about what you're going to say next. Yes. you're You're like waiting for the the breath of that individual to just like put a period at the end of the sentence so that you can just, you know, say what you want to say.
00:04:45
Irelynn Zurflueh
And that's actually bad. You should not be doing that. If you're really in the moment of listening, you should listen to everything that person has to say, digest it, and then converse with something else.
Storytelling and Conciseness
00:05:01
Irelynn Zurflueh
And I know i'm I'm a culprit of it. I'm always thinking about it. I want to solve the problem. And I want to, you know, throw my opinion out there because, you know, I think I can, you know, add something to this conversation. But the truth of the matter is, is we're not built that way. We need to learn this skill.
00:05:18
Irelynn Zurflueh
And what I've been trying to relate to my team members, and there's 13 team members on Facebook, McKenna Property Management, is that this skill set is probably the most important thing in business, especially right now, because you need to know, yes, communication is important, text, ah email, give them what needs to be done as far as the data, but you must pick up the phone and you've got to create that conversation.
00:05:44
Irelynn Zurflueh
And then when you've got them on the phone, you better be a good conversationalist because if you're not, then it was a waste of time.
00:05:54
Irelynn Zurflueh
Are you done? Oh, look at that. Are you done? You practiced. But I'm going to say something about you. Okay. I know exactly what you're going to say. I don't think you know. I know. You are Tim McKenna's daughter. I'm Irish.
00:06:05
Irelynn Zurflueh
Oh, I know. this is what I'm going to see. Part of this podcast, Brian Buffini was the host of the podcast and he's Irish. He actually has an Irish accent. I didn't know this. He does.
00:06:16
Irelynn Zurflueh
He's full Irish. Anyway, he referenced something called a Shauna Chai. Yes. don't know if you remember that. Why don't you remember that? Sonichai is an old old man at the pub in the village in Ireland telling stories.
00:06:29
Irelynn Zurflueh
Yes. And they'll take a 90-second story and make it 10 minutes long. And your father does that. Tim McKenna. And you... you want to reference yourself?
00:06:41
Irelynn Zurflueh
Jenny McKenna? Actually, you do it too it's so true. And as he was saying this,
Power of Questions in Conversations
00:06:46
Irelynn Zurflueh
and of course, dad and I, Tim McKenna and I are both Irish and proud Irish people. i I noticed that I have this story that could be just a simple 60 second, 90 second story. And for some oddball reason, I have to keep elaborating on it and adding things to it.
00:07:03
Irelynn Zurflueh
And just like, um, i Buffini said he's like you could take a 90 second turn it into five minute and you've completely lost your audience completely lost and I have felt that I have seen it and for some reason I'm still not good at shutting up well I would never agree with you on that but it is true um but that's the point now are is anybody gonna say it is are you going say it or am i going to say it you say God gave us two ears and only one mouth
00:07:35
Irelynn Zurflueh
So it's kind of funny that we are better at talking than listening. I think my, let's get this going here. um But, you know, I also want to reference what she said and what I've known a long time. And you've heard about this with all of your, your studying through Keller Williams and that, you know how do you control a conversation?
00:07:54
Irelynn Zurflueh
Ask questions. The person who asks the questions controls the conversation. And it's so true. And it's true in business. It's true with me with a listing appointment when I'm trying to secure a seller to sell a property.
00:08:08
Irelynn Zurflueh
If I just go in and start talking about myself, I will lose that listing in a heartbeat. You have to ask questions. Ask questions about the person you're talking to.
00:08:18
Irelynn Zurflueh
Let them tell you about themselves. Because that's what we're best at talking about is ourselves. Well, that was something that Celeste
Impact of Personal Topics in Talks
00:08:25
Irelynn Zurflueh
had said that when... We are talking about ourselves and we're talking about things that we know, you know, personal things, maybe my dog, my children, my home.
00:08:35
Irelynn Zurflueh
It's like an endorphin upper. She referenced it to the same feeling is from heroin. And sex. i don't know if you heard that part was I wasn't going to say that. Well, it's okay.
00:08:46
Irelynn Zurflueh
People have sex. I mean, so that's a powerful connection. Yeah. and And I can tell that when you are asking questions, if somebody's asking me questions and I'm getting involved in being able to answer something that's important to me, I'm more engaged but so you're So you you feel that that endorphin, that kick, that high when you're telling people about yourself, right? So if you were in a conversation with somebody else, giving them the opportunity to have that high is speaks volumes, right?
00:09:14
Irelynn Zurflueh
So that's why we want to come in. and and And she also referenced a time when somebody asked her, how do you start a conversation? Right. So, and we'll just do it kind of personally. Like you said, how would I start a conversation? I'd say, so you're from Las Vegas, right?
00:09:27
Irelynn Zurflueh
I am. yeah So tell me a little bit about about Las Vegas. How long you've lived there? I've lived there my whole life. real What is it you like about Las Vegas? It is such a unique city. Do you know that something is always being built? There's always something new, new restaurants, new activities, new, new hotel casinos.
00:09:42
Irelynn Zurflueh
I just, I love it. It's a great city. Would you consider moving somewhere else? Oh, Not full time. So you really love it here in Las Vegas. I do. The summers the summers are a little rough.
00:09:53
Irelynn Zurflueh
So that would be the only thing that maybe for the summer I would go somewhere where it would cool off a little bit. But no, as far as a city, it is
Building Client Relationships in Property Management
00:10:00
Irelynn Zurflueh
awesome. So I just started the conversation by asking some questions about something that you want to talk about.
00:10:06
Irelynn Zurflueh
So easy. And I know that in property management, what we do is a lot of times the calls will come in and the only thing they really want to know are what are yours? What's your, what's it going cost me?
00:10:18
Irelynn Zurflueh
And what can my property rent for? And those are great questions, but everything needs to be in a relationship situation because like I used to say, and I still say, real estate transactions are like the core team.
00:10:33
Irelynn Zurflueh
You're only in it for a short period of time. So you always see the best face on everybody in your real estate transaction. You start it, you end it, they move into the house, boom, all you're done. Property management is the marriage.
00:10:47
Irelynn Zurflueh
We're going to be in a relationship with that particular property owner for years. So we like to start the conversation where they ask us about how much it's going to cost or, you know, what my property can rent for.
00:11:00
Irelynn Zurflueh
I always like to say, yeah, we'll get to that. But can you tell me a little bit about the situation? Why are you renting that property? Mm-hmm. Do you live in that property or is that something that... no I like to keep my hand there. Stop it. Or do you need to um you you need to have ah somebody move out?
00:11:19
Irelynn Zurflueh
Is there some work that needs to be done? So these are all questions, probably a good five or six questions before we even get to the meat of what the fees are or what the rent would be.
00:11:31
Irelynn Zurflueh
Beautiful. And through those questions, you're going to know urgency. You're going to know a emotion. You're going to be able to know exactly how you can help that individual. And isn't that what our business is actually supposed to be for?
Silent Listening and Emotional Cues
00:11:45
Irelynn Zurflueh
Absolutely. You got to dig deep. You got to go deeper in your questions and make sure you find out their motivation and what their, you know, what is it? Something makes them.
00:11:57
Irelynn Zurflueh
I forgot. I had a great one and I just, I just lost it. That's horrible. But it ended with, Emotions make them act. and Logic makes them think. Emotions make them act. and And that is absolutely true in anything. Emotions going to make you act, but you know, everybody sometimes starts with the logic thinking, but you're actually going to act when it becomes emotional.
00:12:18
Irelynn Zurflueh
The other thing that I really um feel like I think I'm going to work on and I'm going to share it with the team is the fact that know when to stop talking Like just, it's not even about the stories. I know that I tell stories that could be 90 seconds and it turns into three, four, five minutes. I'm going to work on that. But the other thing I really want to work on is when I am saying something in a conversation, just stop.
00:12:46
Irelynn Zurflueh
Don't keep dragging it on. Say the sentence, one or two sentences, and then just wait and let that other person give that feedback. Because you know what the most important thing is? This is what the bottom line is.
00:12:59
Irelynn Zurflueh
All of us, every human being wants to be heard.
00:13:05
Irelynn Zurflueh
Amen. And this is a skill set that by allowing somebody to be heard, you will actually be able to better not only your business, maybe your personal relationship with your spouse, your partner, your children.
00:13:20
Irelynn Zurflueh
i mean, all this is something that just bleeds right into every aspect of your prop of of your life. Absolutely. People want to be heard. course, you can't both sit there and not talk. Someone's got to get the ball rolling. So that could be awkward if you just kind of wait, but it it comes true in the negotiation as well.
00:13:38
Irelynn Zurflueh
When you've said what you want to say, stop talking. People get themselves into trouble in negotiations when they, they just can't stop talking. I'll sell you this bottle of water $3.
00:13:51
Irelynn Zurflueh
Jenny. jeny Now it's really good water. um I want you to know how good this water is. And $3, I think is a great price. I mean, you know, I may be able to go a little lower, but I think three is my number. So I'd be willing to sell this to you for $3. What do you think about the $3 offer? I mean, you know, again, i could go lower if I had to.
00:14:09
Irelynn Zurflueh
how low How low will you go? Well, no, I mean, I don't want to go very low, but I just think three would be great. See, that's just it's just horrible. Yeah, because I would have bought it at $3 if you had just put a period on end. Yeah, you never know, right? here And you don't know.
00:14:22
Irelynn Zurflueh
But here's how I would do it. Hey, I got this great bottle of water. It tastes great. I'm going to offer it to you for $3. What do you think? I'm thirsty, and I want that water. I'm going to pay you $3, and I'm going to have it. Beautiful. Done.
00:14:35
Irelynn Zurflueh
But you talk yourself out of stuff. People always just keep talking, partly because they want to hear their own voice. And they think if I talk more, I'll sound intelligent. And it led backfires a lot because you don't sound more intelligent.
00:14:47
Irelynn Zurflueh
You sound desperate.
Handling Interruptions in Conversations
00:14:49
Irelynn Zurflueh
You sound like you want to hear your own voice. And it's the same in team meetings, in corporate meetings. You have to be able to say what you want to say and then stop talking.
00:15:01
Irelynn Zurflueh
And understand it's okay if I don't talk. I think most people go into a meeting and say, if I walk out of this meeting and I haven't said anything, they're going to think I'm stupid or I don't care or I'm not involved.
00:15:13
Irelynn Zurflueh
It's not always the case. Listening can be such a skill and could it can take you to so many higher heights than just running your mouth. So when somebody is running their mouth, do you have a particular trick that you can do that will maybe get them to stop talking?
00:15:33
Irelynn Zurflueh
And do it in a manner that's professional. Or let's say it's a husband and wife situation and you don't want the husband or the wife pissed off for the day because you interrupted them when they needed to do their talking.
00:15:46
Irelynn Zurflueh
Yes. No, no, I do not have an answer. When it comes to meetings is I'll let people continue to talk. You can't cut them off because that's just rude. And and if they're choosing to not listen and they want to talk, it's only having a negative effect on me. So they do whatever they want to do.
00:16:01
Irelynn Zurflueh
but And when it comes to your spouse, you and I set up an agreement a couple of years ago because you established, you informed me that I cut you off all the time. He does. Well, let's not go nuts.
00:16:13
Irelynn Zurflueh
He does. Because the rest the story will tell a little bit of the tale. Just listen. Okay. You told me, you interrupt me so much. You're always interrupting me. You never let me finish a point. So I said, well, I don't want to do that.
00:16:25
Irelynn Zurflueh
I'm not, it's not my intention. let's develop a word that will be a trigger. So if I'm talking and you interrupt me, I can just say watermelon sugar.
00:16:36
Irelynn Zurflueh
That's not a very good code word. It's two words. It takes too many syllables, but whatever. That's what we came up with. We came up with that because that was the popular song during the time. Harry style. know But then, so we put that in play and we found out that I was saying watermelon sugar a lot more, like a lot.
00:16:53
Irelynn Zurflueh
So we found out that you were interrupting me too. Maybe you didn't know you were. And so we, we, we quickly took the word out and said, oh, screw it. This is
Leadership and Listening
00:17:02
Irelynn Zurflueh
not going to work. We're saying it too many times, but maybe you have to have something with your spouse that says, you know, or just, you know, yeah I was talking and you interrupted me. May I continue?
00:17:14
Irelynn Zurflueh
Well, in the book, I mean, that's perfect, but in a real world scenario, that probably isn't going to happen. But in the book, we need to talk. There's a section that does state that if I'm a spouse, ah let's just use me as an example. I come home and I just need to vent.
00:17:29
Irelynn Zurflueh
I just need to have this venting session about whatever happened at work or children or whatever. I can preface it and say, Max, I I had a crappy day. I need to tell you all about it.
00:17:42
Irelynn Zurflueh
You don't need to give me any advice. Just listen. Then the other thing can be said. Hey, Max, I've had a crappy day or my children have really upset me. I want to get, I want to get. i stopped hearing you.
00:17:54
Irelynn Zurflueh
Oh, no. Hello, hello. Can you hear me now? No, I don't think we hear each other. This is very awkward.
00:18:03
Irelynn Zurflueh
What about now? Nope, I got nothing. Well, maybe we lost sound. You hear me? Yeah, I Okay, well, maybe it's just my headset. I don't know what happened. That was a little awkward moment. I hear what you're saying, though.
00:18:14
Irelynn Zurflueh
um You know, I should be able to say to you, just listen to me for five minutes, and I should be able to take and hear from you, just listen to me for for a while. while One of my triggers that I do do, and I don't know if it annoys people or not, is that if I'm talking and people, first of all, your family that I married into that has now become our family, we're an interrupting family. It's kind of what we do.
00:18:36
Irelynn Zurflueh
One trigger I've taken is I've said, I've started saying like, if I'm talking and then I'm about to finish a sentence or continue with a sentence and you cut in, I'll go, Hey, I can finish my sentence when you're done, if you'd prefer.
00:18:48
Irelynn Zurflueh
I know he says that a lot. don't know. Does that aggravate you when I say that? No, it doesn't me. Does it make you say, oh, yep, I interrupted him. I should just wait. It's kind of a good, it's actually a good statement to make me think, oh, I should have let him finish that sentence.
00:19:01
Irelynn Zurflueh
One more item I'd like to touch on is the importance of listening before you talk in terms of a leader. If you're in a group of people and you're the leader and you have to address a problem, find an answer or a solution to a problem, right?
00:19:18
Irelynn Zurflueh
If you come out into the room and say, here's the problem we're going to have. I want i want everybody to give their input. Here's what I think. Right? And you're the leader and you give your opinion right away. Then everybody else, when it gets to become their turn, they're going to be hesitant to disagree with what you said.
00:19:33
Irelynn Zurflueh
Hesitant to even come up with their, even mention their idea because you've already said what you want. So I have to give credit to Nelson Mandela. His father taught him that when you're in a group of people and you're the leader, sit down, state the problem and say, I want to hear from each of you and make sure the leader is the last to speak.
00:19:52
Irelynn Zurflueh
That makes total sense. So the leader has to listen to everybody and don't set the tone for the answer or the solution because if you talk first, you'll kind of ruin that. so That makes sense to me.
00:20:03
Irelynn Zurflueh
that's a good That's very good advice. Oh, thanks. did I did good. Wow. Well, you've heard that before. I mean, it's just so obvious. Harder to do than to say.
00:20:15
Irelynn Zurflueh
because as a leader, you do have an idea of where you want that conversation to go and how that problem should get resolved. And sometimes it can go a bit squirrely, but I agree with you. Get the input before your input, because nothing will really be said if you put the the Well, you run a staff meeting every Thursday, and yesterday I asked you,
Conclusion and Listener Feedback
00:20:36
Irelynn Zurflueh
how did it go? And you said, well, I probably talked i probably did way too much talking.
00:20:40
Irelynn Zurflueh
I did. So, you know, I would would challenge you to, at your next staff meeting, walk in and say, hey, who's got the agenda? Let's go top to bottom. I'm just going to observe today. That'd be a great idea. So let's see how that goes. All right. We'll back.
00:20:56
Irelynn Zurflueh
You got any more ideas on listening and listening? Nope. I would say just, I recommend the book. We need to talk. And it is something that I think every human ah being walking this earth should probably gain that skill. Ask questions and listen.
00:21:13
Irelynn Zurflueh
That's thoughts for rent. That's us today. That's our podcast. Hope you enjoyed it. Love to hear your thoughts on that. We always want to hear back from you guys. ah Tune in next time on thoughts for rent realtors, keeping it real. I'm Max or flu.
00:21:28
Irelynn Zurflueh
And I'm Jenny McKenna. And we're out. Have a good day.