Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: We are on episode 78.
Speaker: You are with Josh Roop, along with my co-captain as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And Scott.
Speaker: I heard you got a new pinball machine.
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I just got a Mandalorian premium that I got delivered yesterday.
Speaker: It's sitting in my frozen garage out there with my Iron Maiden and Beatles, which is too cold to go outside and play.
Speaker: And I'm super excited because I saw the pictures of the Rush LE.
Speaker: They're signing those cards.
Speaker: And so my Rush LE should be on the way.
Speaker: So I am super excited about that.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: So if you need to order one, check out Zach and Nicole Mini at Flipping Out Pinball.
Speaker: They are always good to hook you up.
Speaker: And if you have that game that you're looking for, whether or not it's in the future or something that they could possibly obtain through a trade, reach out to them, let them know, and they'll be able to hook you up.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: So speaking of Rush, I know, Scott, you like Rush, and you dared me to find someone that likes Rush better than you.
Speaker: And so I scoured the internet.
Speaker: I may have called in a couple favors, but I think I found someone a bigger fan than you.
Speaker: You ready for this?
Speaker: I am ready.
Speaker: Bring it on.
Speaker: So Mr. Canadian Rock and Roll Hall of Famer, Ed Robertson, is joining us today.
Speaker: How are you doing, Ed?
Speaker: Good to be here, guys.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: So, Ed, before we get into any of this, this is our first episode since we heard about Lyman's passing.
Speaker: And we've talked about on the show before, we've talked about the devastating effects of mental health.
Speaker: And a lot of people don't, they don't want to talk about it because people feel either embarrassed about it or they feel social stigma.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Uh, we, first off, we want everybody to know that you're welcome at our table and we, we are inclusive to all.
Speaker: And, um, you know, your brain is just like any other part of your body.
Speaker: So if you need help with, with your liver, your heart, you're going to go get help.
Speaker: And, um, talking about things that are affecting your mental health are just as important, if not more so, because usually people suffer in silence, um,
Speaker: And so we do want to respect Lyman, respect his memory.
Speaker: We're going to talk about more his influence on pinball, but we want to reach out to Ed and say any Lyman memories or any Lyman thoughts that he had.
Speaker: Well, I'm still struggling with Lyman's passing.
Speaker: Lyman and I spoke pretty regularly and we actually spoke at length
Speaker: about his mental health.
Speaker: And I tried to be a resource to Lyman.
Speaker: So I, I spent an awful long time, uh, after Lyman committed suicide, worried that I hadn't done enough to let him know how appreciated he was and how loved he was.
Speaker: And I'm sure a lot of his friends are, are having those fears right now.
Speaker: it uh it's been really hard to reconcile and it's you know i've battled depression myself for many many years um i've i've i've never been at that intense end of the struggle but i've i've spoken to a therapist regularly for
Speaker: almost two decades, definitely the last decade on a weekly basis almost, um, as my schedule permits.
Speaker: Uh, and I've explained to a lot of friends, like I never really feel like I'm in a deep hole, but it's really wide.
Speaker: Um, you know, it, it feels like a, a, a crater that's only, it's only up to my knees, but it kind of goes to the horizon sometimes, you know, and, um,
Speaker: It's just like a background depression.
Speaker: And I, I really wish we were at a place where there wasn't a stigma attached to talking about mental illness, but there clearly is.
Speaker: And people are ashamed when they're struggling.
Speaker: And, you know, Lyman, you know,
Speaker: was so loved and so respected and so revered in this community, but he was so hard on himself.
Speaker: Um, and it didn't matter what game I brought up to Lyman.
Speaker: The first thing he always talked about was what disappointed him about it, you know, and what he wished he could have done better.
Speaker: And, and I'm saying,
Speaker: Lyman, this is a perfect game.
Speaker: Like, you know, talking to him about Walking Dead and saying, like, I think it's perfect.
Speaker: Like, I love it so much.
Speaker: I think Horde might be the greatest moment in all of pinball.
Speaker: I just love it.
Speaker: And I explained to Lyman in so many ways that the intensity of
Speaker: that he's given so many pinball fans the variety of emotions from humor to stress to euphoria.
Speaker: He has been the architect of so much joy for so many people.
Speaker: And I think that's why so many of us are struggling right now.
Speaker: Whether you knew Lyman personally or not, you're thinking, my gosh, how could this guy...
Speaker: who gave so much to so many people and did so many things that, that pinball fans revere and rejoice over.
Speaker: Um, how could he not, um, feel the intensity of that, that love?
Speaker: Um, so it, it's been a real struggle and I would just reiterate what you were getting at.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: If anyone out there is struggling, reach out.
Speaker: You have people who care about you and just don't give up on yourself.
Speaker: It's really scary when you see someone like Lyman succumb because we all hold him in such high esteem.
Speaker: So if you're struggling, reach out, reach out to a friend.
Speaker: If you don't have a friend to reach out to, reach out to a doctor, reach out to a coworker, reach out to somebody because the world is a better place with you in it.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: I think we're all, all of us, like you said, even if we know him personally or it, I feel like one of the reasons, well, the main reason I got into this hobby was because of Lyman's code.
Speaker: I mean,
Speaker: you find medieval madness and it's just something that draws you in.
Speaker: And you look at someone, like you said, so revered.
Speaker: I I've never heard a bad thing about Lyman.
Speaker: He was such a gentleman.
Speaker: He, he was always open to listen to you and whatnot.
Speaker: And it just, it stinks.
Speaker: Cause you do question, um, you know, hindsight's 2020.
Speaker: Could I have done something more?
Speaker: Is there something I could have done?
Speaker: And it's just, you know, give someone the opportunity to, to help if, if you are feeling at that state.
Speaker: Yeah, it, it makes me think about Gattaca.
Speaker: If you haven't seen Gattaca, it's a great film, but he's, he's talking, I don't want to give away the premise of it, but he's talking to his girlfriend at the time.
Speaker: And he says, this is the quote, they've got you looking so hard for any flaw that after a while, that's all you see.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And people who are in deep depression, that's all they see about themselves.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, uh, my heart goes out to Penny, who is just one of the loveliest people on the planet and, uh, Lyman's family.
Speaker: And, um, yeah, I think anybody who knew him will be struggling with this for a long time.
Speaker: And the pinball world has lost an absolute Titan, an absolute legend who walked among us.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Everything he touched turned to gold.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: So we will do a Lyman retrospective in the future, too.
Speaker: This is more of a snapshot, but we are going to awkwardly transition to what Ed has been working on.
Speaker: And it's near and dear to my heart is the Rush pinball machine.
Speaker: Well, it's not an awkward transition at all because Lyman was the biggest Rush fan.
Speaker: He loved the band.
Speaker: And even after he left Stern, he just kept texting me, you got to make it awesome, man.
Speaker: You got to make it awesome.
Speaker: You got to do justice to this band.
Speaker: They're the greatest band.
Speaker: And yeah, he was on me, riding me the whole time.
Speaker: So it was cool.
Speaker: That's no pressure at all, right?
Speaker: Yeah, no pressure at all.
Speaker: I said, you know, I know one way I could have been sure it was going to be amazing.
Speaker: So this game is fantastic.
Speaker: I got my hands on a pro last week.
Speaker: I got to play it.
Speaker: I enjoyed...
Speaker: the depth of it.
Speaker: I enjoyed the call outs.
Speaker: It's a really fun game.
Speaker: I've got to know though, I was listening to your Stern Insider interview and Getty and Alex reached out to Jody and said, Hey, we want to do this as long as Ed's on board.
Speaker: So are you just known as the pinball guy in the music industry or is it like, like, is that your calling card?
Speaker: Like how, how does like, is that just your thing?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm kind of known as the pinball nerd.
Speaker: And I,
Speaker: Yeah, it was initially Getty reached out to me and said, hey, you know, we're being approached about doing a pinball machine.
Speaker: Can you help us?
Speaker: make the decisions.
Speaker: And I said, yeah, I'd be happy to, you know, any questions you have.
Speaker: I said, if you guys want to come over and I'll, I'll show you what I've got and show you what to look out for, that sort of thing.
Speaker: And Geddy said, okay, well, let me get back to you.
Speaker: And then the next call I got was from Jody Dankberg who said, so Rush wants to do this pin, but they're insisting that you kind of be the quarterback and creative direct the thing.
Speaker: It's like,
Speaker: their main stipulation on doing the licensing.
Speaker: Um, and so I was flattered of course, cause I'm such a huge fan of those guys.
Speaker: Uh, and it was a, it was just a really cool opportunity for me to dive in.
Speaker: I'm such a pinball fan.
Speaker: It was really cool to be involved from, um,
Speaker: the initial, like, just from the discussion level all the way through layout, through concept, through artwork, every single aspect of it.
Speaker: It was a really cool insider's look.
Speaker: I mean, I understood the process fairly well because I've been pretty close with a lot of the guys at Stern for a long time.
Speaker: But it was really cool to be involved at every step.
Speaker: So when someone says, I want you to make it awesome, that's a steep hill to climb.
Speaker: And that's like saying, hey, no pressure, but your next album, we want you to sell 5 million.
Speaker: Been there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've had that said to me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: So that's the question.
Speaker: Like what is it that, you know, you have been very involved in pinball, but when someone says, I want it to be awesome,
Speaker: What do you do to make it awesome?
Speaker: How does that work?
Speaker: Well, part of my goal with this machine was to transcend the band because you knew that Rush fans were going to be interested in a Rush pinball machine.
Speaker: But I wanted to do what Stern did so well with Metallica and ACDC and Iron Maiden.
Speaker: The machines were...
Speaker: were bigger than the bands.
Speaker: Like I wouldn't put a Metallica record on ever, but it's one of my favorite pinball machines, you know, and same with Iron Maiden.
Speaker: Like, you know, it's not a band I would ever listen to, but it's one of my top favorites.
Speaker: three games of all time.
Speaker: Like, and so that's, that was really important to me at the outset.
Speaker: I want to make a great pinball machine that even if you're not a rush nerd like me, you're going to want to play this game.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So it's got to be fast.
Speaker: It's got to be exciting.
Speaker: It's got to be interesting to look at.
Speaker: It's, you know, we just, we wanted to transcend the hardcore rush fan and, you know,
Speaker: you know, I'm such a huge fan of Borg's layouts because they always offer some fast shots, some fast returns to flippers, but also super brutal, dangerous shots that are necessary to do well in the game, you know?
Speaker: So require some precision shooting as much as you'll often have a repeatable ramp shot or,
Speaker: an easy combo you can make.
Speaker: I want the game to beat you up and frustrate you.
Speaker: So those were the kind of early conversations that John and I had.
Speaker: And John, for the first time in many, many, many years, had the luxury of time to design this game and really tweak it and work on it.
Speaker: And he was in heaven because normally...
Speaker: their schedules are blindingly fast and he's got to come up with something quickly.
Speaker: He's got to get it up and flipping.
Speaker: And because of the COVID shutdowns and lockdowns, Borg had time to really play with this layout.
Speaker: And, and the other thing is Borg's a huge rush fan too.
Speaker: So it was, it was a great,
Speaker: There was great synergy right from the beginning because John and I were already really good friends.
Speaker: When the band brought me on, John said, well, this is going to be amazing because you can talk pinball to the Rush guys.
Speaker: You can talk music to the Stern guys and we can get everything we want here.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So I felt like John and I were real co-conspirators on the project and pushing it forward, pushing for what we wanted.
Speaker: It was important to have as much music as possible.
Speaker: I didn't think we were going to be able to sneak all the music we did into the game.
Speaker: But you're looking at two hours of music because we got the full first side of 2112 Cygnus X1 book one and book two.
Speaker: Like it's insane how much music is in this game.
Speaker: Unprecedented.
Speaker: I think.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, it's really impressive.
Speaker: And I know that you had spoke about you guys, you said you want to do some bangers.
Speaker: You was it picked 20 songs if I'm correct.
Speaker: And then 15 out of those were the same for you, Getty and Alex.
Speaker: Number 16 was different.
Speaker: If you'll tell us about 16 and then why you went with 20 songs.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We initially picked 20 songs each.
Speaker: And of that list, we shared 15 songs.
Speaker: Then next down the list, there were two songs that had two of three votes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And those were YYZ and La Villa Strangiato.
Speaker: And you guys did an arm wrestle for that.
Speaker: Well, we went back and forth via email and it's funny cause I've seen so much chatter online.
Speaker: YYZ should have been in there.
Speaker: Like, why is that song not in the game?
Speaker: Well, it's not in there because Getty argued against it.
Speaker: Oh, Getty Lee.
Speaker: Getty Lee said, no, Love Illustrangiato is a way better song.
Speaker: And, uh, you know, people have a fondness for YYZ because the drum solo on exit stage left happened in YYZ, but La Villa Strangiato, the melodies in that song and the different sections, I think Ged was right.
Speaker: Like ultimately I caved to, to Geddy's argument that La Villa Strangiato is the better song.
Speaker: And I, I, because I'm from Toronto,
Speaker: And because Exit Stage Left was like the beginning of my love affair with the band, I wanted YYZ, but I had to admit he was right.
Speaker: Well, La Vie Estrangerado is also on Exit Stage Left.
Speaker: And Geddy's right, just so you know.
Speaker: It's a better song.
Speaker: Yeah, he is.
Speaker: And I still love YYZ.
Speaker: Oh, it's a great song, yeah.
Speaker: I will play it ad infinitum.
Speaker: Always.
Speaker: And I always play it when I plug an electric guitar and that interval is so weird.
Speaker: C, F sharp, C, F sharp, C, C, C, F sharp, C, C. That's like, that's a weird interval.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's dang catchy though.
Speaker: It's one that makes you set up and listen.
Speaker: Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker: But they're actually, um, rush is a little bit of an outlier because they actually have, they will pepper in instrumental songs.
Speaker: And, um, there's a lot of bands that just won't touch instrumental songs unless you're, you know, like the cliffs of Dover or the iconic ones that everybody knows.
Speaker: Um, but,
Speaker: So here's the question.
Speaker: Like, and I have, I have said my, the rush song that speaks to me the most is the analog kid, which is actually a, it's number two on subdivision on a singles, signals, signals.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But is there a song that you connect with a rush song that speaks to you?
Speaker: And did it get in the game?
Speaker: My favorite song has always been either limelight or free will.
Speaker: I tend to say free will when asked.
Speaker: I just think that those guitar riffs are so interesting.
Speaker: Uh, but free will wasn't one of the 27 or 28 songs that I played in my high school band.
Speaker: Like we played 28 rush songs and then about 10 songs by other bands.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, uh, I used to love Xanadu as well.
Speaker: I did that one in my high school band.
Speaker: We did Cinderella Man.
Speaker: There's a lot of Rush stuff that I love.
Speaker: But for me, with the pin, the one song I wanted to make sure was in there was Free Will.
Speaker: I haven't played it yet, but on the streams that I've watched, it sounds like they skip the intro on Le Vie Estrangiato.
Speaker: Is that correct?
Speaker: They just jump right into it, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's a couple of cases where there's a bit of a slow burn of an intro and we just wanted to get into the hook of the song.
Speaker: I think you'd have to, that's the right call because it is an amazing guitar intro, but jumping right into it is, is certainly the right move.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We had to make some judicious editing choices.
Speaker: Plus like Tim Sexton was worried that,
Speaker: that we were not going to have enough room for that much audio and video to sync with it.
Speaker: It's an enormous amount of data.
Speaker: Um, and like I said, it's, it's unprecedented.
Speaker: It's pretty awesome.
Speaker: I, I, I was really enjoying it.
Speaker: I mean, the pro, if you don't feel shortchanged with the pro, it felt really good.
Speaker: You also played at a bar, though, that intentionally turns all the music down.
Speaker: You can't even hear the pins.
Speaker: It was a happy hour yet, so it was pretty quiet.
Speaker: So was there a moment when you're recording with Getty and Alex and it just was like an aha moment or, you know, there was just a moment that stood out to you during this whole process?
Speaker: Well, recording with Getty and Al was hilarious because those guys are really funny.
Speaker: But also super professional.
Speaker: And they really wanted to understand...
Speaker: the various things they were saying.
Speaker: Cause some things, if you're not a pinball nerd, they, they like, we take stuff for granted that, uh, that we need to hear to understand what's going on in a game.
Speaker: And when they hear shoot rush, they're like, what do you mean?
Speaker: Shoot rush.
Speaker: Is there a violent aspect to this game?
Speaker: We didn't understand.
Speaker: So sometimes it was just about explaining pinball terminology to them.
Speaker: What is the scoop?
Speaker: What's an orbit?
Speaker: What is, you know, and they're, you know, they're, they are keen learners, like they're tech, they're tech minded guys, they're gear heads.
Speaker: So they were fascinated by that aspect of it.
Speaker: but overall the recording session was just a joy.
Speaker: They, they burned through so much dialogue and people haven't even heard a quarter of the call outs yet.
Speaker: There's so much more audio to go in the game.
Speaker: So I think there's going to be a lot more elements to come.
Speaker: For me, the moment that was really cool was getting to voice the Federation pilot role.
Speaker: which of course on 2112, that's Neil's voice.
Speaker: Um, and, uh, Getty and Al suggested that I do it cause I have a deep voice like Neil did.
Speaker: And I was, I was kind of taken aback at first.
Speaker: I was like, Oh no, I can't, I shouldn't like someone's going to get mad.
Speaker: And, uh, but when we decided to do it and then we were able to get in touch with Terry Brown, who,
Speaker: produced all those early Rush albums and get the actual settings he used on Neil's voice.
Speaker: And so when you hear that Federation pilot in the game, it sounds pretty close to Neil on 2112.
Speaker: So that was really exciting for me.
Speaker: And being able to hear that in the game is going to be super cool.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: So is that the end?
Speaker: Is that making it to the all the way all 20 minutes and 40 seconds all the way to the end of 2112?
Speaker: You you pop in there.
Speaker: Well, you're going to be hearing instructions from the Federation pilot all the way through.
Speaker: So that'll be sort of like the game voice, actually.
Speaker: So Gideon and Alex are kind of peppering in jackpots and advice and just humor.
Speaker: But I'll be the kind of mechanical voice of the game.
Speaker: Locks are lit.
Speaker: That kind of stuff.
Speaker: I'm already starting to see a really great game out of this and we're at early, early code.
Speaker: Like you said, there's still plenty to go into it and whatnot.
Speaker: What makes a great game to you and what did you bring to the table to make sure that this game was going to be great?
Speaker: Well, I requested Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson early on in this project because I wanted a real modern sensibility to the code on the game.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Tim has got a great sense of adventure when it comes to how he approaches a rule set.
Speaker: He, both he and Raymond, I think knew very little about Rush.
Speaker: So Tim said right away, I'm going to need you to explain the band and the music to me.
Speaker: But I said to Tim, look, this is your chance to do Rush.
Speaker: everything you've been wanting to do.
Speaker: Like I'm down for it.
Speaker: Let's do fun stuff with this rule set and I'll figure out a way to sandwich it in with lyrics, with theming, with the band, but tell me what you've been wanting to do from a rule standpoint and let's try to do it.
Speaker: So I wanted it to be the reverse, not for those guys to feel like hampered in by a theme.
Speaker: rather for me to figure out how to marry their crazy ideas for a modern, highly nuanced rule set.
Speaker: But man, those guys dove in and Tim was immediately sending me things that I hadn't even thought of.
Speaker: Tie-ins with lyrics.
Speaker: They poured over the lyrics and watched all
Speaker: videos and watch documentaries about the band.
Speaker: And before I knew it, those guys, they were like total aficionados on the band.
Speaker: After a couple of months, they'd just been living and breathing it.
Speaker: And, uh, all the ideas just started coming together.
Speaker: And I, I feel like Tim and Raymond, uh, really have, uh,
Speaker: they've all read like the game launched with so much to do and it just shows you a roadmap of where they're going.
Speaker: Um, it's very exciting.
Speaker: It's, it's everything I was hoping for.
Speaker: It's, it's might be Borg's best layout and I'm a huge John Borg fan.
Speaker: So I think it might be Borg's best layout.
Speaker: Um, calling that one early and, uh,
Speaker: And I think what Tim and Raymond are bringing to the project in terms of a real modern nuance to the code is exactly what I wanted.
Speaker: I wanted the game to be intriguing for people who aren't just hardcore rush nerds.
Speaker: And I feel like that's what I'm seeing from all the feedback from people who are playing it.
Speaker: Do you have a favorite mode or shot in the game right now?
Speaker: Well, you're looking at
Speaker: a guy who has never touched this game.
Speaker: You still haven't touched it.
Speaker: I'm, I'm flying to Chicago Friday and meeting John at the factory and, uh, fingers crossed.
Speaker: Ellie's will be hitting the line.
Speaker: And, uh,
Speaker: I am really super stoked.
Speaker: But yeah, I have not touched the game.
Speaker: I have been involved in every decision, every aspect, but I have yet to flip it.
Speaker: I've watched John flipping it for hours, and I've watched Tim flipping it for days.
Speaker: Okay, so what mode are you most anticipating or looking forward to then?
Speaker: Or what shot?
Speaker: Well, I love the double scoop.
Speaker: Um, the 90 degree scoop kick out, I think is super cool.
Speaker: Uh, I love that it was an early request for me to have an under the flipper shot.
Speaker: Um, so that looks great.
Speaker: Um, love the little, uh, post up, uh, ball lock on the far left.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: And the ramps just look so fast and fun to shoot.
Speaker: So I can't speak firsthand because I've, you know, I've watched all the streams so far.
Speaker: And like I said, I've, you know, I've got hours of video of the whitewood and talking through all the plans for the game.
Speaker: But I'm really excited for this Friday.
Speaker: It's going to be my first time flipping the game.
Speaker: The one thing I like about Borg too is you look at his layout and you think, oh, I can shoot that shot.
Speaker: That is not a big deal.
Speaker: And then for some odd reason, somehow he's put that ramp somewhere different on the flipper than you would expect.
Speaker: And that's one thing I was like, first couple games was just trying to figure out
Speaker: Where on the flipper am I shooting the shot between, you know, going through the pops?
Speaker: Because that's a very dangerous shot.
Speaker: And then same with the right ramp.
Speaker: It just I'm like, that doesn't feel like it should be that far down the flipper.
Speaker: But it's still it's that's the thing I do like about Borg is it's it's out of the normal of what you usually feel a shot should be.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, you know.
Speaker: I saw a lot of chatter about similarities on this game to other of John's layouts.
Speaker: And it kind of frustrates me because, you know, there's the play field is a finite amount of real estate.
Speaker: And what John has been doing very successfully for a long time is refining ideas that he likes, you know, and,
Speaker: reimagining shots that feel good to him and finding a new way to approach things and really coming up with a new take on an interesting mech or a new mech that'll affect some aspect of a layout that he likes.
Speaker: But I think the criticism is kind of lame ultimately because, you know, if you get a great flowing design and you get
Speaker: a challenging layout, then if it has aspects of other games we've seen in the past, is it not nearly impossible to avoid that?
Speaker: Even, you know, I'm so in love with Elwynn's designs right now.
Speaker: But Keith will tell you where he's ripped off every one of those ideas from.
Speaker: You know, it's the bottom, the upper right corner is Congo and the lower left he got from the original Jurassic Park and whatever it is, you know, it's about combining ideas that work.
Speaker: If you try to reinvent the wheel too much, you just end up with a brick fest.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And ultimately it's about subtly tweaking shots that work and maybe altering the returns and the kickouts and things.
Speaker: So it's a new game experience.
Speaker: But ultimately, if you want the machine to feel good and shoot well, it's going to have aspects of games you've seen before.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And it's and we're all we're all victim to it.
Speaker: I mean, I I sold X-Men.
Speaker: And so this has a lot of similarities to X-Men.
Speaker: So that was the one thing I was concerned about because I I owned an X-Men and I moved on.
Speaker: However, I will I'll be the first to admit that layouts and code create a different beast.
Speaker: And having that code and that layout, even though I was looking at it, and there are things that are different enough about this that are going to feel significantly different than the X-Men I had.
Speaker: And so that was my only reservations that I felt like I had already played X-Men and enjoyed it.
Speaker: But there are a lot of aspects to this that I'm really looking forward to.
Speaker: And it feels like he's taken all the good things and made them better.
Speaker: And if you saw Tim and Raymond and well, and everyone who was on that reveal stream, I, they were all hitting things and it looked so good.
Speaker: And I know they're, they're so much better than me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They are so much better than me, but it still gives me hope that an experienced good player will be able to make a good flowing game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was just watching Bowen's latest, uh,
Speaker: tutorial on Jurassic Park that he put up on Papa.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah, I think I already knew everything you're saying, but I've never put it together that well in a single game.
Speaker: Yeah, that right ramp is still like a luck shot for me on Jurassic Park.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's just so hard to dial in.
Speaker: And the right orbit, the O shot in Chaos.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: That's a pretty tight shot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I get pretty good at C-H-A and then... What's going to be easier to shoot, the O or try to go for the smart missile in between the... I have really good luck with the smart missile.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And there's enough of a grace period that if I don't always get it, I'll often get it on the second shot on the rebound shot.
Speaker: Well, no, get it back to the flipper quick and still make the shot, which there's just enough time that you can get a second crack at it.
Speaker: I would say I get the smart missile.
Speaker: At least 60% of the time, if not more.
Speaker: Okay, that's much better than me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's an amazing game.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So have the Rush guys seen the machine and what after you worked on it, they did all that and you showed them?
Speaker: Did they have any sort of impression?
Speaker: They're not pinball guys.
Speaker: They said that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They haven't seen one in person yet, but I sent them all the...
Speaker: all the streaming links and all the kind of chatter around the release and, uh, a bunch of the, the media that went out around the release and just basically congratulated them on a very solid, uh, uh, release.
Speaker: But the plan is in the near future for me to actually school them on their games when they, when they get them, there's a plan in the works to have dinner.
Speaker: and a little pinball tutorial.
Speaker: Well, that was going to be my next question is, is it's going to be when it's pinball night at the Robertson house, do you think you've gotten addicted enough to the server ball yet that they're going to start joining you on pinball night?
Speaker: I would love it.
Speaker: I would love it if they did.
Speaker: They're, they're just a stone's throw from where I live here.
Speaker: So you need to ensure that Getty brings one of his monocles.
Speaker: Because, you know, he has like one of the most impressive monocle collection, which if you thought that collecting pinballs was niche, collecting monocles has to be like five levels above, which is the only way Getty does anything, really.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he collects a lot of different things.
Speaker: He's got a pretty impressive watch collection.
Speaker: He's yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Getty doesn't mess around.
Speaker: So are you going to like, I, I'm assuming they're going to make a special game for you or, or some sort of, uh, some sort of customized, or is it like an Ellie or is it a band member?
Speaker: Like what do you do for founding members like this?
Speaker: Like, how do you get them a game that has their likeness on it?
Speaker: Um, yeah.
Speaker: You know, I don't know if Stern's got anything extra special planned.
Speaker: As far as I know, the guys are just getting numbered LEs.
Speaker: But maybe I'll do something lewd to their games before I deliver them to them and then not tell them until well after the fact.
Speaker: Then I'll send them the photo of what exactly was on their flipper buttons just before they started handling them.
Speaker: I was thinking you were going to pull the glass and lift up the play field and sign Ed was here or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I should just blow the game up and enter my initials.
Speaker: And then that'll be the GC on their game forever.
Speaker: So I assume you had some fun putting this all together.
Speaker: If Stern called back up and said, hey, we want you to help do another, would you say yes?
Speaker: It would have to be a band that I...
Speaker: love um or um you know a license that i really love because it's it's an enormous amount of work uh and i was super happy to do it for the rush guys and uh to be the the bridge between pinball and rock and roll for those guys it was it was a really unique position and really cool and
Speaker: You know, as I said, I'm such a pinball fan.
Speaker: I would love to be involved in any project, become really good friends with so many of the people at the company.
Speaker: So I'd love to do another one, but it'd have to be a license that I was excited about because it's very time consuming.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm going to pitch a license to you.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What about Bare Naked Ladies?
Speaker: Uh, never heard of them.
Speaker: Um, yeah, I mean, I, I don't think we're in that stratosphere of, you know, the 50 million bands.
Speaker: Let's pretend you do it.
Speaker: We do a bare naked ladies pin and you're like, okay, what would you do for a bare naked ladies pin?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, don't, don't think I haven't, uh,
Speaker: Possibly sketch something out and created a kind of rules hierarchy that I think would be fun.
Speaker: I've certainly thought about it.
Speaker: But it would have to be a boutique project at Stern because we just don't have the record sales to support a foundation release there.
Speaker: I I'd buy one.
Speaker: I would, I think you're downplaying yourself.
Speaker: Well, you know, that the other approach would be to do almost a, uh, an original theme, but with the license of the band, you know, because I, I think I could make a very cool pinball experience that was maybe more similar to like, uh, uh, Scooby and the mystery machine, you know, kind of, uh,
Speaker: banned chasing down mythological creatures, kind of, that may have been an idea I've thrown around.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: The tour is just a front for this centuries long battle against the folklore monsters of the world.
Speaker: It's like a Scott, Scott Pilgrim versus the world or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That kind of thing would be great.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And I agree.
Speaker: I'm sold.
Speaker: You've sold me.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, so you are, you guys are getting back on the road.
Speaker: You're starting to, you were pretty much in lockdown for, for the first part of COVID you, you've done some online concerts and,
Speaker: And now you're starting to ease your toe back in there.
Speaker: You have famously talked about taking pins on the road.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So when you take a pin, do you take one, do you take two?
Speaker: Do you take one that you can play that's all set up and then one that's a project pin?
Speaker: Or do you just focus on one?
Speaker: I actually had a custom road case built that that holds one modern stern pin and the pin is in the road case already at the right angle.
Speaker: So my crew guys just have to take the top off and lock the wheels in and it's ready to play.
Speaker: fold up the head um so i will bring a modern stern with me out in the summer but i generally also end up filling the bus bays and parts of the truck with project pins that i pick up along the way um so i usually leave for the tour with
Speaker: a new stern in a road case and i get home from the tour with six or seven pins in the truck so yeah that is awesome hey you might as well take advantage of it right like if you're out there you might as well why not why not yeah and i mean it's about reaching out to
Speaker: you know, people I know in different areas.
Speaker: If I'm, if I'm going down through Texas, I'll, I'll reach out to Darren at pinballs and Ed Vanderveen at TPF and say, Hey, I've been looking for, you know, a joker poker.
Speaker: Can you, can you keep your eye out for me?
Speaker: And, you know, I'll give him a couple months notice before I get to their part of the world.
Speaker: And, uh, I just put the feelers out far and wide and,
Speaker: I've got enough friends in the hobby that word gets passed around and, uh, you know, I'll hook someone up with tickets and backstage passes if they can get a, a game out to a gig.
Speaker: I, I was imagining you like scouring Craigslist and then meeting someone behind a seven 11 and like, uh, been there, but I try to keep it a little more professional than that.
Speaker: So is there anyone that you've introduced to the game of pinball and you've been kind of shocked they've just taken off with it and now they're bugging you all the time about pinball?
Speaker: Well, it's more the opposite.
Speaker: I'm surprised when I introduce someone to pinball and they don't fall in love with it.
Speaker: Like I just, I can't understand it.
Speaker: So there's a lot of people in my life that have been exposed to it from me and are now starting to collect.
Speaker: You know, my neighbor just
Speaker: I've got two neighbors on the street now that I got a fun house for my neighbor Volker and my neighbors, Paul and Leah are now looking at their sixth and seventh game.
Speaker: Paul just ordered a rush Ellie and he's already got five up at his cottage and, uh,
Speaker: Yeah, so it is spreading for sure.
Speaker: But I'm never surprised by it because it's the greatest game.
Speaker: And I'm shocked when people don't fall in love immediately with it.
Speaker: I think, you know, I've said this many times.
Speaker: It's that light bulb moment when you explain to someone that it's not just...
Speaker: When you explain that pinball is chess, not checkers.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it's not just about keeping the ball in play.
Speaker: It's about making specific shots at specific times.
Speaker: People go like, oh my God, really?
Speaker: It's like, well, yeah, that's, that's why when you flail around on the game, you're going to get 320,000 points and, uh,
Speaker: I'll have for the same rough length of play, I'm going to have, you know, 45 million points in that span of time because I'm looking at what the game wants me to shoot.
Speaker: And when people make that realization, it takes the game to a whole other level for them.
Speaker: You guys know that.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I've never heard that analogy, but that's perfect, actually.
Speaker: So we are rounding out our time, but we want to know, where are you going to be this summer?
Speaker: If people want to come out and watch you guys play, where are you going to be?
Speaker: Well, we're going to be all over America this summer, starting down in St.
Speaker: Augustin, Florida.
Speaker: In early June.
Speaker: Friday, June 3rd.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: And we'll be all over the country.
Speaker: I think we've only got one date in Canada and the rest are in the U.S. Got about 35 shows with Gin Blossoms and Toad the Wet Sprocket opening up.
Speaker: We got a U.K.
Speaker: tour scheduled to start in March.
Speaker: So I'm really hoping...
Speaker: That happens.
Speaker: The restrictions seem to be lifting there.
Speaker: We've got a sold-out Royal Albert Hall that we're very excited to get back to.
Speaker: We haven't played there in about 14 years, something like that.
Speaker: So, yeah, I'm really excited that things are starting to open up and I'm able to get back on the road.
Speaker: So that reminds me, Jeff Teolis was given Martin Robbins crap because you guys had never been to Australia.
Speaker: Is that true?
Speaker: I thought you guys have been to Australia.
Speaker: We have been to Australia.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We only went there once and it was in probably 2000, 99 or 2000.
Speaker: It's just really far.
Speaker: It's really expensive to take a whole bunch of gear there.
Speaker: And realistically, we'd be playing large clubs, you know, so it's a lot easier for us to stay in North America and do our kind of annual or biannual trip over to the UK.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: where we do really well there and have lots of fans.
Speaker: Um, but, um, America is a big country.
Speaker: There's lots of places to play, uh, very handy to us here in Toronto.
Speaker: So, Hey, where's the Utah tour, uh, stop.
Speaker: You guys go to Colorado, just jump right over.
Speaker: It's so close.
Speaker: How about you guys come to us?
Speaker: We might have to.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll have to do that.
Speaker: You know, I knew Bare Naked Ladies had made it when I was listening to Weird Al's Running With Scissors and he covered your song one week and turned it into Jerry Springer.
Speaker: I feel like if you make it, Weird Al covers you, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Honestly, like that...
Speaker: I've often said like that was cooler than any kind of award we won or nominations or whatever.
Speaker: You know, the fact that Weird Al actually did one of our songs is pretty cool.
Speaker: And I, you know, I love it when they mention us on Family Guy or on...
Speaker: what we do in the shadows or I just saw it on Tosh.0, uh, on the flight down to Mexico.
Speaker: We just did a show in Mexico with Hootie and the Blowfish.
Speaker: And, uh, I was watching Tosh.0 and, uh, a horrible sketch in the 12th season of Daniel Tosh in the fourth episode.
Speaker: There's a one week reference in it.
Speaker: And, uh, it just made me laugh.
Speaker: I,
Speaker: It's awesome that you've had such a cultural impact too.
Speaker: I was a music man first, then found pinball.
Speaker: And so it's really cool to have you on the show as well because I played in a band for a little bit.
Speaker: I was nowhere near what you guys were, but we did have some fun.
Speaker: It was fun just touring and getting on the road and playing shows.
Speaker: It's the greatest thing.
Speaker: I'm so lucky to get to do what I love to do.
Speaker: I would pay to get to play at the venues that I get to
Speaker: get paid to play at.
Speaker: So, I mean, anyone who's been in any kind of weekend warrior band or you know, it's the greatest thing.
Speaker: So the fact that I've been able to make a career out of it and just beyond grateful and overjoyed, I'm, I'm literally the luckiest person in the world.
Speaker: I could tell that we're, I was listening to a detour de force and I love good life.
Speaker: I feel like that song just is an amazing snippet of life.
Speaker: I love that song.
Speaker: And I love having written that song 30 years into my career.
Speaker: And I write a song and I go, wow, I really liked this song.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: So I feel like,
Speaker: I'm learning all the time.
Speaker: I'm improving.
Speaker: I'm, I'm, uh, I've still got something to say that's interesting.
Speaker: I still managed to find a, a turn of phrase or a couplet that's funny or interesting to me.
Speaker: It's like it just refills the gas tank, you know, keeps me going for another tour and another writing session.
Speaker: I got to ask you, I'm trying to figure out what play field that is.
Speaker: Oh, this is all Keith L. One's designs.
Speaker: I'm going to steal that.
Speaker: I'm going to steal it from Josh.
Speaker: When we went to Pinball Expo, he, uh, Zombie Yeti gave it to me.
Speaker: Uh, but that's cool.
Speaker: It's his four designs.
Speaker: And then they all signed it there at the bottom, the chairs in the way from the signatures, but.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: My wife was nice enough to get that framed and give it to me for Christmas.
Speaker: That's very cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know Scott was kind of jealous.
Speaker: I had people almost like, so you want to trade for that?
Speaker: I've got a banner.
Speaker: This is much better.
Speaker: I'm not trading.
Speaker: Do you have a game?
Speaker: I'll consider a game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, that's super cool.
Speaker: Well, the first song on the album is Flip.
Speaker: Was that inspired at all by Pinball?
Speaker: It wasn't.
Speaker: You could have said, yeah, yeah, yeah, it totally is.
Speaker: This is great.
Speaker: I enjoyed talking to you guys.
Speaker: No, we really appreciate having you on.
Speaker: We know that you're a very busy man.
Speaker: And so we appreciate you taking time out of your, your busy schedule to, to join us on our little podcast here and spread the good word of pinball.
Speaker: Yeah, no problem at all.
Speaker: Thanks for doing it, guys.
Speaker: I love listening to podcasts, so making good content is important.
Speaker: Us pinball people are starving for good content, so appreciate all the effort you guys put into it.
Speaker: You're going to have to start up your own pinball podcast when you're flying to Mexico and stuff like that.
Speaker: You'll just have to interview the person next to you and talk about pinball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The last thing I need is another gig.
Speaker: Another project.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Do you want to do the outro, Josh?
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I assume you don't want to be bothered, Ed, right?
Speaker: If someone wants to get a hold of you, do you want them to get a hold of you?
Speaker: Buy a ticket.
Speaker: That's how you want them to get a hold of you, right?
Speaker: Come to the show.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If anybody wants to get a hold of me, my email address is support at Google dot com.
Speaker: Or 411 if you have the number, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm going to laugh when we get an email next week saying I Google or I send an email to support at Google and they haven't a clue what I'm talking about.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's support at littlecaesars.com.
Speaker: Oh, their stuffed dress is so good.
Speaker: If you want to get hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: We're also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all at Loser Kid Pinball.
Speaker: Also on Twitch if you want to stream, which I haven't done since October, so I should probably not mention that anyway.
Speaker: But no, it's been a great show.
Speaker: We're excited.
Speaker: Texas Pinball Festival's coming up.
Speaker: I got a couple new hat designs ordered.
Speaker: You going to be joining down there, Ed, hanging out with Ed Van Der Veen and whatnot?
Speaker: I sure hope so.
Speaker: Are you going to be in England?
Speaker: Oh, it is, isn't it?
Speaker: Yeah, it overlaps this year with my UK tour.
Speaker: But Ed and Kim put on one of the greatest shows.
Speaker: It's my favorite.
Speaker: So many games.
Speaker: great spot um yeah i wish i could go but you're right i'll be in the uk you'll just just block out that weekend you can fly back come hang out with us and then you can fly back to uk and do some i wish all right we'll see you at the greek theater los angeles friday june 10th i'll be there awesome well see you in two weeks scott hey thanks josh
Speaker: Shut up and sit down.
