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#6 Community With Roy From Aqvavitae
588 Plays4 years ago
Marketing Spirits & Better Individual Health Through Community
Roy From Aqvavitae is the perfect person to talk about community as it pertains to the world of spirits, specifically Whisky.
In this episode, we talk about how whisky changes peoples lives and brings them together. Then how this community of people can improve an individual's life.
We also look at how the commercial world should think about becoming a part of this community so they can highlight the awesome things they make.
Make sure to visit Roy's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Aqvavitae
Transcript
Introduction and Gratitude
00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast is brought to you by you. And what I mean by that is all of the people that are part of this community that make it possible for me to do this. People that take time out of their day to listen to podcasts, people that take time out of their day to watch YouTube videos, people that leave comments, that recommend it to other people, that have a discussion with the guy in the comments section and give him suggestions or take suggestions from here.
00:00:25
Speaker
It is an absolutely awesome thing that we have going here guys and I cannot thank you enough for it. I am especially thankful for the Patreons who support Chase the Craft directly through the Patreon platform. Thank you very much guys. If you're interested in signing up you can visit me on Patreon. Have a look at the tiers that I offer and see if any of them are right
Guest Introduction: Roy from Akvavite
00:00:46
Speaker
for you.
00:00:46
Speaker
With all the craziness going on in the world at the moment, I really wanted to talk about community from a few different angles, talk about it from a commercial point of view, a marketing point of view, but also a health and well-being point of view of the individual. I thought for a long time about the perfect guest to include in this podcast to bring to you guys to talk about this with, and at the end of the day there was just really no, no competition whatsoever. It had to be Roy from Akvavite,
00:01:12
Speaker
By the end of this podcast, I 100% believe you're going to understand what I mean and you're gonna know why I wanted to talk to Rory about this. But I'll let you make your own mind up. Let's get stuck right in.
00:01:29
Speaker
So Roy, it is an absolute pleasure to be able to talk to you again my friend. It's been too long. It is a pleasure, it is a pleasure. I have to make a small confession to start and that is on the run up to the Texas gathering the bastards ball over there.
00:01:48
Speaker
They released a list of all the channels that were coming out. And I was vaguely aware of a channel called Still It. I didn't know about the content. I didn't know about Jesse. I didn't know about anything. And I only looked at Still It for the first time when they run up to that event. And I realized just how big a channel, what a reach you have, what community that you're building as well. And then obviously when I got to meet you over there and hang out with you,
00:02:16
Speaker
and it was an absolute pleasure and I'm glad to have had that opportunity. Oh me too, yeah it was so nice to be able to get together with people of like mind and be able to meet people like you and for me it was the opposite man, I think I even told you when we were recording that little bit, I found your channel before I started my channel and I've got this super clear memory of the way I found you is that I couldn't figure out how to say
00:02:44
Speaker
the name of some Scottish distillery. And I found one of your how to pronounce videos. And yeah, that's kind of how I how I found your channel. And that was right around it was either just before it started still it.
00:03:00
Speaker
And when I started, I mean, go
Content Creation Strategies
00:03:02
Speaker
live. I've definitely been recording and stuff, but I can't remember. Yeah. Those videos have been really good. They've reached a lot of people for me. If people have heard of me, it's probably through the pronunciation videos. That's kind of been a gateway video for me, which was always part of the strategy, right? That if you're going to do something on YouTube,
00:03:20
Speaker
you're starting from nothing. What can you do that's going to actually be of value to somebody that you can cast a net out there to try and attract some people to come and watch what you've got to share? And the first couple of ones that I did were just little experimental videos. But then I was writing a blog post about pronunciation and I couldn't, there's no way you can write down the pronunciation.
00:03:43
Speaker
So the only thing you can do is let people hear it. So that's what brought about that video. And I'm really glad I did it. I'm now getting pressure to do number three because there's so many other names coming out now and so many expressions that I could easily do a third version. So I might get right to that at some point, right? Yeah, you should then. Yeah. So that embarrassed me even more to the fact that you came up to me and you knew so much about the channel and the recites of a few things. I was like, wow, OK.
00:04:11
Speaker
Honestly, before that, I was very shy about the whole thing. I felt like an outsider to the whole, because I had no connection specifically with the whiskey group of people. I was only hanging out with the home distillers online. So for all of you guys, I was quite nervous to actually talk to you, because you guys were the YouTubers. It's weird. I mean, you're sitting over here going, yeah, I've got a channel too.
00:04:41
Speaker
I mean, you're 50 odd thousand subscribers. You've got a significant sized channel. Absolutely. So that is bizarre to me that you were, that you felt that way at all. But I mean, everyone, everybody felt that way. You know, the thing is, is that we are the YouTubers. It's kind of, we're still doing things from our kitchens and bedrooms and spare rooms and things. It's really, it's a very domestic hobby, right? Yeah, very much so.
00:05:12
Speaker
So just in case no one, the people that are listening, in case that they know who I am, but they don't know who you are, do you want to let them know what it is you do on YouTube?
Akvavite's Focus on Whisky Culture
00:05:21
Speaker
And then we can get into talking about community, which is what we're here to do. So I'm Roy. My other name on YouTube is Aqua VT and the channel is Aqua VT.
00:05:30
Speaker
Aquavite is based on the concept of sharing whisky, sharing the liquid itself, of course, but sharing knowledge and experiences and stories and concepts, ideas about whisky, how whisky has come to be and how it is so much more than just an alcoholic drink.
00:05:50
Speaker
And that's kind of, so it's almost kind of the very existence of whisky that drives me how it's such a powerful, powerful thing. And when I say powerful, I'm not talking about high ABV. I'm talking about ethanol content. I'm talking about as a connector of people, as something that really, really
00:06:09
Speaker
like nothing else. You could talk about wine, you can talk about other spirits, you can talk about lots, but whisky has a depth to it that I find compelling and that's what drove me to get in front of camera. I was very camera shy before I started doing this. So that's what the channel's about. I do live streams now. I do
00:06:28
Speaker
They used to be every two a month, but because of current situations and times bringing a lot more content, I think people are seeing a value in it just now. They're using it and they're very well attended. But also do occasionally I do pre-recorded content such as blind challenges, recycled reviews and basically things that interest me about whisky I like to share through the medium of YouTube.
00:06:53
Speaker
That whole subject, that whole genre, that whole group of concepts is super under threat of turning into wankery and pretension. And just if you're listening guys, that is the exact antithesis of what Roy is about.
00:07:11
Speaker
So if you're worried about any of that side of things in the world of whiskey, you don't have to worry about that with Roy. Which is special, man, because I think in something like this and from a branding point of view and from a community point of view, authenticity is just everything.
00:07:31
Speaker
I think when it comes to putting yourself out there on YouTube or a brand or a product at the end of the day too, but especially when we, like when we are the ones that are kind of the product, it means everything. And of everyone that I've managed to meet through this, you kind of come to the top of that conversation time and time again, because you just do such a damn good job of it, man. That's really nice of you to say, Jesse, honestly. Put you on the spot.
00:08:00
Speaker
Well, honestly, because the thing is that it's very easy. The language that I use sometimes, the concepts that we talk about, especially when we're getting the tasting notes and using buzzwords and phrases about whisky, it can sound very pretentious.
00:08:16
Speaker
And I remember how I felt when I was kind of just standing outside of that bubble and you do feel a wee bit removed, a wee bit shy about stepping inside. So I sometimes have to check myself because I want it to be as inclusive as possible and I want it to be about trying to shine the light and lead everybody in.
00:08:36
Speaker
Not only just to work out how fantastic whisky is, but how to have a much healthier relationship with alcohol, honestly. So the idea of stripping prevention away is super important. And if I have somehow managed to succeed there, fantastic. But I think it's a difficult thing to do because of the very nature of what we talk about, right?
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And you're right from the outside it can seem before you get stuck into whisky, just the idea of someone sitting down and talking for five minutes about the whisky and everything they get from it and they haven't even tasted it yet.
00:09:11
Speaker
That can be, you know, I've been in a situation with someone that I respect where I've done that. And they've literally just looked at me and said, dude, shut up. It's tasty. Drink it. And I do see it from the other side of that. But I think it kind of depends on where it's coming from, right? If you're using that language and those descriptors to help someone else decide what they do like, what they don't like so they can pick a bottle off the shelf,
00:09:38
Speaker
If you're helping someone describe something to someone on the other side of the world where you can't literally just pass the glass to them, there's no pretension in that. You're not doing it to build yourself up and put someone below you. You're not doing it for wankery or anything. You're simply doing it because that's the language that two people use to talk about something they love.
00:10:01
Speaker
One of my favourite things to do actually is to have somebody and because it's not meant out of confrontation it's just because of their perspective as you quite rightly say when they do turn around and say you settle down and just drink it you know and I say okay you're absolutely right let's settle down and drink it and then you choose your moment and then you say
00:10:18
Speaker
indulge me a little bit. Just give me a little bit of your time. I've settled down and I'm drinking it, but can I just, and then you talk to them a little bit about the whisky. Talk to them about the glass that's in front of them and the whisky that's inside it. And you start to have a conversation
00:10:34
Speaker
in a way that you're trying really hard not to be pretentious about it, but you're trying to make them see the drink as something else. Because when you're just drinking, when they're just doing this, whiskey, neat whiskey is not the drink you want to be doing that well. It's really not, no.
00:10:49
Speaker
And if they want to do that, if they just want to drink and the social situation is the focus, that's fine. Maybe have something a bit lighter, a bit weaker, or put a mixer in your whisky, whatever it may be, or drink light whisky. But if you're in a social situation where you're sipping neat whisky, whisky is very much part of the crowd.
00:11:09
Speaker
the participation in that situation, it becomes part of the conversation and it's often got a lot to say. I know that's a silly thing to say, isn't it? It's one of these pretentious things. But I find whisky, even when I'm in company, if I'm sipping it, it's difficult to ignore.
00:11:25
Speaker
The whisky as you drink it, it shouts at you, it's asking for attention, it's asking to be in the conversation a little bit. So it's trying to get that across to somebody. And all you need to say to them is, do you taste anything at the... Oh yeah, just taste whisky. It just tastes like whisky to me.
00:11:40
Speaker
OK, do you taste any banana? Do you taste any caramel? Or do you taste any of it? And in time, they go, oh, yeah. And then you see them just having that little moment where maybe this isn't pretentious. Maybe there's a ton of stuff to discover in here. And that's how I've managed to convert, I'd say, the majority of my friends, actually. Because we all came, including myself, came from that perspective where whiskey was just whiskey. And everything tasted like whiskey.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think for me too, the conversation that happened with my wife that led her to enjoy it more than just a drink was, because that's how it used to be between us, you know, I'd start talking about it and she'd be like, whatever, I just let me watch my movie and enjoy this yummy thing in my glass, enough. Yeah. And it was like, you pour something else through and she'd go, I don't like that. Hmm, interesting. So why?
00:12:35
Speaker
If it just tastes like whiskey, why is this one yummy, but this one is, eh, I don't like it. And tell me, help me understand. So when I go to the store and buy another bottle, I can try and pick something that I think you might like. And that leads to start, oh yeah, okay. So there actually is something that's different about whiskey A and whiskey B. So how do we start talking about the, what is the language that we start using to describe those differences and what my preferences are?
00:13:04
Speaker
That's worked for me on a few people as well. I mean that's one of the biggest things is to get especially through contrast or if you can get people
00:13:14
Speaker
picking up hooks. So it's obvious to get a hook out of a peated whisky. People taste pork
Virtual Community Building
00:13:20
Speaker
and medicinal notes and seaweed and all these things. Peat is a very obvious hook. Strong sherry influenced whisky is an obvious hook. And then a sweet caramelly vanilla bourbon cask. If you can get those three
00:13:34
Speaker
cornerstones, if you like, and get people tasting this extreme difference between those three styles. And at this point, we're still only in the Scotch realm, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can get them going, wow, these are clearly different drinks, and then say, OK, that's just the start.
00:13:51
Speaker
And literally, it's difficult to find whiskies that are so similar, you know, you need to have quite a collection before you start to find whiskies that are so similar, they're difficult to tell apart, right? When you're sitting in contrast, of course. And if you can get people intrigued that way, I think it goes a long way. And then from that, with any luck, we get to, I realize how choppy my video is, I don't know why that is.
00:14:15
Speaker
That's fine. Don't worry about that. From that, we start to build that community that you're talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think there's probably a good segue to start talking about that. And the reason I reached out to Roy is because the community that you've built
00:14:34
Speaker
is astounding to me. And I know that you've got a background in not in that directly and not in anything necessarily YouTube related, but you've got other skills that lend itself well to this. But
00:14:48
Speaker
And maybe let's start talking about the hobby itself and how a community of a hobby brings people together that wouldn't normally be together. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the channel is kind of tongue in cheek founded on certain concepts. And one of the concepts that it's founded on, and it's on the coins here. I've got one of your coins here, Jesse.
00:15:12
Speaker
And I've got one of these. Fantastic. You're a superstar. Along the rolling edge, you'll see it says it's not whiskey until it's shared. And of course, we know that that's not true. Of course, it's whiskey. But the point of that statement is that the experience, the enjoyment is amplified when you have the opportunity to share it. We're quite happy to find a quiet moment in pocket time where we're sitting on our own and we're maybe analyzing and enjoying a whiskey on our own.
00:15:41
Speaker
The majority of people are drawn to that shared experience. And it makes sense that it doesn't need to be just two people enjoying a drama. It can be three, four more, and it can be club level events, festivals, pubs, wherever it is. All I've done is take that very same concept
00:15:58
Speaker
and moved into a virtual environment in order to reach people wherever you may be. You may be in the centre of London and there are clubs and events and shops and all sorts available to you, but you may be out in the back end of nowhere where it's tough to get that shared experience. So it's given people that regular environment where they can come to rely on it if they want, if they choose to.
00:16:27
Speaker
and get together and they start to recognize the people, they start to make friends and they start to connect. And then they realize that the whiskey brought them there, but then the whiskey took a back seat and let them just be people, sociable beings. That's, I think, a very good point. And I think that echoes to any hobby I've ever been part of that forms that really strong sense of community. It's always that the hobby is a catalyst.
00:16:55
Speaker
to get people together that without that catalyst maybe don't have any particular right or that's not the right word but any particular need or obvious link together and it's
00:17:09
Speaker
It seems more obvious to me in the whisky community in many ways, and in the distilling community too, than most other hobbies. If you look at other hobbies, there's quite often a type, right? You know, there's quite often a stereotypical sort of person. And I think in whisky, that's somewhat true. But the people that I met at that bastard's ball, the people that I met traveling around from distillery to distillery, if you put them all together and took whisky completely out of the equation,
00:17:38
Speaker
People would be baffled as to why they're all together, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's something that we all talk about. You'll hear me talking about it regularly, where we talk about the only thing that's probably brought all those people together is whisky. The whisky and that community, that gathering, doesn't care what you do for a living. It doesn't care how you eat, how you pray, how you vote.
00:18:03
Speaker
Nothing. You leave gatherings and make strong lifelong friends and you walk away thinking, I don't even know if that guy is married. I don't even know if that woman did. You're right. You're totally right. You know, things like that.
00:18:22
Speaker
It's bizarre that it can function that way, but it does. It's just we completely focus on this really immersive shared experience that is the whisky. And we enjoy the fact that we don't need to worry about all the things that divide. And we can focus a little bit on these very strong, compelling themes that unite. And that is addictive. And that's what builds community, I think. I think you're right.
00:18:47
Speaker
One of the very refreshing things for me about six months ago to a year ago and up until recently was the fact that more and more increasingly I was seeing people not do that, right? If you didn't vote the same way that I vote, we can't be friends. And it was super refreshing to step into a position where it was the opposite. It was let's get together over something that's common
00:19:17
Speaker
and decide that actually we are both decent human beings that can form a friendship. Oh, by the way, we disagree. We completely butt heads on a different topic, but we've already built this bond, so now we can talk through that and actually see the other person's side of the argument.
00:19:35
Speaker
Before you've captured politics, before, you've not judged the person based on his or hers global outlook as a political standing. You've judged them as a person first. As a human. And then if they turn out to be completely polar opposite with you on a subject, the bond is already there holding you together.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah. So maybe even as that evolves and progresses, you've given yourself a platform for healthy debate rather than conflict and confrontation. That's exactly my point, Ryan. And there's a statement that my friend the whisky rev used to always say, and I think it's a Homer Simpson thing, but he said, whisky, is there anything it can't do?
00:20:23
Speaker
And he's a perfect example because I was raised a Roman Catholic. I don't follow that religion anymore or any religion, honestly. My wife does. My wife is Protestant. And the whisky rev, my friend, the rev actually means Reverend. He's a minister, but he's a Church of Scotland Protestant minister. Theoretically, him and I should be oil and water.
00:20:48
Speaker
Whatever the twain shall meet. And yet we became very, very close friends, fully at the hands of whiskey. Some people have asked Graham directly, maybe through the church or whatever, the fact that Roy doesn't come to church or do anything like that.
Whisky and Human Connection
00:21:06
Speaker
And Graham has just looked him straight in the eye and said, you don't need to convert everyone.
00:21:11
Speaker
So what he's saying there is to follow his own faith, I guess, and judge everybody based on the fact that they're people first. And it's whiskey that allows people just to adjust their focus a little bit in our community, certainly, and care a bit less about these really divisive things. And we're at a time now in human history that I feel that we're almost so polarised
00:21:40
Speaker
It used to be much more granular, but there's just a strong left and a strong right now. And that golden middle, we're all seeking, right? And I think that whisky can help us.
00:21:51
Speaker
in a very small way perhaps, but I want to make it as big a way as possible. It can help us kind of see things from each other's perspectives. And I'm saying that at 11 o'clock, 20 past 11 in the morning here, I've not had a dram. I've had a few. I've had a couple for both of us. I have this now and I've got some
00:22:15
Speaker
Oh, maybe some hard bed coming up next. But I thoroughly, I completely and utterly agree with you, Roy. And I think it is that if you build a relationship first, when you realize you, when you realize that you disagree wholeheartedly with someone on something, you know, oh, don't let me twist your arm, dude.
00:22:35
Speaker
These are exceptional times that we live in, Jesse, so... For those of you listening to the podcast later, I was showing Roy that I had a glass in hand. I've been sipping since we started. But yeah, when you realize that you disagree wholeheartedly with someone that you know you care about and someone that you know is a good human being, you have to look back into yourself
00:23:01
Speaker
and sort of retrospectively back through your relationship. And you know that there's a foundation at some point where you agree. And that logically has to lead to a conclusion that somewhere along the line, someone has a belief or something that is perhaps intangible, something that perhaps is irrational.
00:23:24
Speaker
But if you grant them that one little kernel of something, everything beyond that makes sense and you can understand how they got to, the answer they got to. And as soon as you realize that, the problem that you're talking about here is no longer the boogeyman that stops you being friends, right? And something like whiskey or home distilling, it removes that.
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's that belief in the good human that we do exist. And I know we think we're doing our best to try and self-destruct regularly. But yeah, we always thrive. So the core must be there. People must be inherently good, I think. And it's finding the good in people everywhere.
00:24:06
Speaker
And whisky, in the whisky community, any gathering and environment that I've been to, like you mentioned at the Bastards Ball, we've had gatherings in the UK and Europe regularly where everybody, and you realise you're aware that this is probably quite a disparate bunch of people that wouldn't normally have a platform or a venue to connect. But here they are all together and they're all having literally a ball. They're all having a really good time.
00:24:36
Speaker
And as I've said before, I'll say it again, the whisky is the thing that's brought us together, but it's taken a backseat at that point. People in that moment when they are happy, yes, they're enjoying whisky, but what they're actually enjoying is the people element, the community is what they're enjoying. I guess where I was going with that earlier is that that's how I felt about
00:24:56
Speaker
community with a hobby or with a passion like this before the situation that's unfolded now, right? Yeah. Now it's a totally different feeling to me where I feel like current events have almost forced people to realize that the things you're battling about on a day-to-day basis don't matter and that there's bigger concerns. Yeah. And now it's almost the opposite. Now it's that everyone's in lockdown and everyone's well, depending on where you are,
00:25:22
Speaker
People like me, and I know you were saying beforehand as well, I'm just horrible at reaching out to people and having any contact with humans if I'm not forced to. But this community in the wider sense and the channel and the YouTube thing is forcing me to talk to people. And here I am. Look, there's no way I'd be talking to you.
00:25:44
Speaker
and having this conversation, which is going to make me feel more fulfilled when I go to bed tonight, if it wasn't for the community and for this platform. I think there's something to be said for that as well. I think there's a lot of people that would be in danger of estranging themselves from the whole world if it wasn't for this thing. Yes. We're all getting a taste of social isolation now.
00:26:06
Speaker
I think is what I touched on
Digital Community Positivity
00:26:09
Speaker
earlier. I don't know if we were live at that point, but one of the reasons that this whole persona, this Aquaviti persona was created is that my wife spotted some health issues in me working from home for 25 years.
00:26:26
Speaker
I used to be busy and active and out and traveling a lot and things, but as that my role developed, there was more and more home time. And then as the young family comes along and everybody goes off to have young families, all your friends, your peer group go and do that at the same time, some divorce or some relocation through work, whatever your friendship bases you touched on as we started to speak shrinks quite quickly. Social isolation becomes something
00:26:53
Speaker
that's not a decision you made, it's not a choice, it's just something that you suddenly find yourself in and you're doing it less and less as you get a little bit older perhaps too. So my wife spotted that in me and actively encouraged me to do something.
00:27:08
Speaker
that has helped me hugely, it's helped me to reconnect with people again, but the people I'm connecting with say exactly what you are just saying often and that is that they found themselves in a similar situation. They reached out perhaps through technology, social media channels, YouTube, whatever it may be and they discovered a community and the community was way more welcoming
00:27:32
Speaker
and way more inclusive than they ever expected it to be. In the digital world, it's easy to hide behind a veil and smash away your opinions at a keyboard. It's really quite difficult. And in the whisky community, that sense of this shared experience, again, kind of breaks that down. And whisky, I always say, almost demands that in a whisky environment that you become a better version of yourself almost.
00:28:01
Speaker
in order to participate in all that positivity all that kind of connectedness all that happens this sounds very cheesy we're not selling anything here jesse we're talking about something we've experienced am i right or wrong it's no you're right you're 100 right it's funny because
00:28:19
Speaker
You mentioned earlier that you're not, you don't follow any particular religion. And yet the branding and the messaging for your channel is packed full of it. And I must admit, dude, I must admit, when I, when I first found you, I kind of thought, Oh, no, what is this? Until I realized that it was tongue in, not, not
00:28:41
Speaker
It's not tongue-in-cheek because it's... It's used out of context, for sure. Well, it's like you've taken those words back and turned them into what they actually mean. You've given them context again, rather than them being used as a trope, if that makes sense. Absolutely, makes sense. Ralphie was on the show a year ago, just over a year ago, and he, live on air, you can see him kind of scolding me for using the evangelism word.
00:29:08
Speaker
because of its religious connotation and he said that to me over time anytime that we met or whatever it was kind of always something that he said that he felt was and I think he's trying to give me a bit of advice there because he thinks that I'm maybe isolating myself from people who would maybe judge me before they see me like maybe you did a little bit there but it's about I'm using the evangelism not in the religious sense but in its true kind of much more wider meaning I don't know if
00:29:37
Speaker
No, I totally know what you mean. I don't quite know how to articulate it. Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of trying to say I am evangelising because the only other word I can think of is enthusing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah so I find it interesting that to go back to your point about us sounding like we're trying to pitch something here because it's kind of the same thing right the language and the description and the I guess kind of emotion that it brings up can be quite overwhelming for someone that doesn't partake in the same enjoyment of the same hobby as you which I think to be honest probably comes back to that
00:30:21
Speaker
things looking pretentious and snobby and douchey from the outside, right? If we were talking about any topic like this in front of people that didn't like the topic we were talking about, we'd come off that way. I think that's almost unavoidable.
00:30:39
Speaker
Awareness is the first step in anything. And I think just the fact that we're admitting that and talking about it puts us in a better place because we're still going to get caught out. We're still going to speak in a way that's going to be overheard by somebody and somebody's just going to narrow their eyes and say, listen to this, idiot.
00:30:56
Speaker
Um, but you know, that's just people. It's a people thing there and we need to temper it for the, try and keep it appropriate for the right people that are audience and things. But you know what, there's an argument for sometimes just going with it, letting the passions run and things. And if you find yourself in company that allow you to indulge in all the tasting notes, all the phrases that's then that's a nice place to be because you can communicate with people on a level that's freeing.
00:31:28
Speaker
But I guess that there are environments and there are friends and company that we'll find ourselves in that we probably need to be a little bit aware that we're excluding them, probably. That's the way to put it. Or they just don't give a shit. You're going to run into that, right?
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah, in order to get somebody enjoying whisky and seeing what it can offer, you need that sliver of curiosity. And if somebody's doors are completely sealed shut,
00:31:57
Speaker
Just leave them. There's no point in trying. But if there's a sliver of light coming through that open door, a sliver of curiosity, just invite them in. Because you can actively change people's lives.
Thoughtful Whisky Consumption
00:32:14
Speaker
Through whiskey, it's bizarre that this higher alcohol spirit is a healthier way to enjoy alcohol, right?
00:32:22
Speaker
And the more you go down your whisky journey, the higher the ABV becomes, it becomes dangerous. But I can spend two hours with a single glass of cast strength whisky. I don't want to admit how many beers I can put away in two hours. Well, I mean, case in point, right, I poured a small, this was a small pour, and I think I poured it before you went live.
00:32:44
Speaker
If that was a pint of beer, I would have been looking for another one probably 15 minutes ago. But it's bizarre people's perception, isn't it? There's a lady at work that every time I talk to her, she's like, oh, I guess you're feeling slow today because of the hangover. I'm like, what? Dude, I drink less now than I've ever drunk since I was legal.
00:33:08
Speaker
And it's not about drinking. It's that every now and again, getting a buzz is a happy side effect to it. But more often than not, I would rather not get drunk because I just want to enjoy the whiskey, you know, and I've got other things I need to do. That's clear. Yeah, I drink less now than I've ever done. I'm very proud to say that my children have never seen me drunk.
00:33:30
Speaker
I mean don't get me they've seen me with a glow and happy and things yeah I think you know what we're talking about they've never been intimidated by daddy drinking or anything and you know obviously that's a lot to do with choices that you make as a parent and a human and everything but of course once games helped me do that because I do slow down my intake
00:33:51
Speaker
And when you're drinking whisky, you're going to be thirsty. So you're reaching for a thirst quenching thing like water or something on the side, which is healthy to do as well. Whereas if you're drinking beer, you're using the beer to quench your thirst.
00:34:05
Speaker
And you don't realise that that's what you're doing. You're in this cycle where you have more beer to quench your thirst that's causing you to be more thirsty. And I don't want to knock beer at all because there's ways to enjoy any alcohol in a very responsible way. I think once you get past drinking and start to taste,
00:34:25
Speaker
that's the big difference. Whether it's craft beer or gin, wines, once you're tasting as opposed to drinking, I think that's quite a shift to make.
00:34:36
Speaker
yeah it's it's just it's i there's such a stigma with it oh but it's so strong i had a friend come around and i poured him eight things to try but everyone was like an eighth of a standard drink you know it was literally just enough to try and then his wife was like oh you really shouldn't drive now it was like he has he he didn't even finish it he hasn't had a standard drink yet
00:35:00
Speaker
If he just had one beer, would you even be saying anything? And it's not that I was like, oh, drink and drive, it's fine. It's just that I keep noticing these things pop up where people people see the ABV on the bottle and automatically equate that to getting drunk. It's bizarre to me. I don't understand it.
00:35:19
Speaker
I have the same issue where people come into my house and they see the whisky because the whisky is literally, it's filling two cabinets in the dining room. My studio here, the first room that they pass in the house is dripping with whisky everywhere and you can see their face and if they've never seen it before, you can see panic. They're going, this guy's an alcoholic.
00:35:39
Speaker
Get the kids out of here quick. Yeah. And then you'd say, you know, you start to talk about it and you start talking about it in a light hearted way. And you talk about before you get into the concepts that we are discussing here, you just mentioned, listen, if I had a real alcohol problem, a drinking problem, this whisky wouldn't exist. It wouldn't be here. And it would not be the drag of choice. I imagine. You'd not be buying $100 bottles. Yeah, I'm drinking such little amounts. Yeah.
00:36:08
Speaker
So yeah there's that huge thing and it's just getting people past the idea of drinking and getting them thinking about concepts like tasting and appreciation and analysing whisky and as dull as that may sound if you're outside the bubble as soon as you step inside it is one of the most fascinating things to exist. Oh it totally is yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
I've often talked about a very real story that happened. We had a teacher, one of the kids school teachers here one evening and her husband was here as well and he gifted me a bottle. He brought a bottle along with him. So he was clearly somebody who enjoyed whisky but he enjoyed it as a drink and he would put a mixer in it and just drink it as a drink. So he enjoyed the taste of whisky.
00:36:53
Speaker
But I was talking to him about all these concepts. Ardbegugadel, nice one. That's for Christina. 54% exactly what we're talking about, right? And you can easily enjoy it neat. Anyway, he's sitting at the table and we're enjoying neat whisky together. I'm talking to him about these ideas that we are discussing right now. And he kind of just shakes his head and he goes, Roy, stop. He said, tell me, I taste whisky.
00:37:17
Speaker
I've been drinking whisky for years because I like the taste of whisky. What do you taste in whisky? What is it that you taste?
00:37:25
Speaker
And I was kind of stumped. And there was that kind of microsecond of a kind of pause, a pregnant pause at the table, a silence. And I said, everything. It's true. And he said, oh, come on, come on, come on, everything. And I said, OK, indulge me. Just say anything, any kind of flavor or aroma that you've ever experienced in your life. And if I haven't experienced it in a glass of whiskey, I'll say so. But probably I've read it somewhere.
00:37:54
Speaker
And it got crazy. We started to talk about grass and dirt and tree bark and metals and chemicals and all of these things. It got crazy. But we know that it all exists inside a glass of whisky. Everything you've ever tasted and everything you've yet to taste is there in some glass of some whisky somewhere. And by the end of the evening, when he was leaving, when he said goodbye, he admitted that he got it, he understood it. Now, I'm not saying that he could taste.
00:38:24
Speaker
but there was enough of an experience through the whiskies that we shared that night that he understood that it was way beyond that sense, that flavour of whisky in a mixer that he's been drinking for years. So I find myself being pretentious and saying ridiculously fanciful things like everything is in whisky. But we can justify it and use it as a distiller
00:38:47
Speaker
you're chasing that everything, you're trying to find ways to put that in the spirit and then mature it in a way that it can deliver everything. You understand it on a very general level, right? I don't understand it but what I don't understand is when I find people that love geeking out on how to make whiskey
00:39:09
Speaker
when those are the people that tell me just shut up and drink it and enjoy it. Yeah. You hand them a glass of whiskey and I like it. That's the end of the discussion. Yeah. It blows my mind. It's like, okay, dude. So you'd like this one and you don't like that one, but you don't want to talk about what the difference between these two are so that you can go home and figure out where that flavor is coming from and how to manipulate it. And if you'd like this flavor, how to give you more of that. And if you don't like that, how to dial it down. I,
00:39:38
Speaker
I can't even talk. That's why you and your channel you call it chasing the craft. Yeah, that's the whole point. And to be honest, the reason that that is front and center on the channel is that I want to from the get go is if someone finds my channel, if you're here to figure out how to get drunk at home for free, you found the wrong guy.
00:40:04
Speaker
Leave now. Perfect. Yeah, I mean that's the whole point. So I think we've in some ways beaten that topic not nearly to death. I think we could go on for much longer but I did want to touch on the idea of community
00:40:24
Speaker
for the commercial world. And this is a really interesting topic to me. And just to let you know, the reason that I want to talk about this is that a lot of the people that are going to listen to this podcast are taking the craft of phone distilling super seriously. And there's people that are sitting on the fence of jumping into the professional side of things. Professional ideas. Understand, yeah. Or they've leapt, and now they're looking for more information, right? Yeah. And the reason that part of me is,
00:40:53
Speaker
reluctant to talk about this is you see this being used as a weapon in the commercial world. And community. Yeah, community and and it's been weaponized for a lot of people. And what I mean when I say that is that it is it is pretentious, it is fake, it is not authentic, but they're pretending that it is. And you know inevitably that that's going to come falling down around their ears.
00:41:23
Speaker
But in the meantime, that can do some harm, and it can rob people of time, money, resource, whatever it happens to be. Like I said at the very beginning, you're about the exact opposite of that spectrum as you could possibly be. I'd be really interested to hear your take on how building a community or how sparking, igniting,
00:41:51
Speaker
Causing being the catalyst for a community can be used in a positive way for marketing, for branding, for commercial side of things. Well, I have to say my day job is that, okay?
Authentic Community Engagement
00:42:03
Speaker
My day job is taking these concepts and trying to apply it in order to make it fruitful and productive in a commercial sense.
00:42:12
Speaker
Listen, business and industry, especially traditional businesses and traditional industries, will always be following culture and trends at a huge distance. They just don't move quickly enough. They're not open-minded enough. Concepts dawn on them often when it's far too late, and I find that in my day job. I have a very forward-thinking CEO.
00:42:35
Speaker
to the point that some of his thoughts and ideas sound very maverick and challenging, but it's just because he's so open-minded and he's trying to think ahead of the curve all the time. So when businesses and communities, because at one point I was tasked with trying to build a community for my day job, for my day job I had to build a community, but it's not community, it's the spectre of community.
00:42:57
Speaker
What you're trying to do is to attract a following, a fan base, people who are engaging, clicking like following, viewing something or whatever. But they're all doing it on a very bidirectional way. So it's the company following interaction. And to the company, they see that as community. We know that that's not. Community is when the community is a completely
00:43:23
Speaker
a separate thing that are interacting amongst themselves and sharing information, sharing knowledge, sharing shared experiences. Now, the community needs access to the commercial product, whatever it may be. In our case, it's whiskey. They need access to it, but they don't want the access forced on them. They don't want the language forced on them. They don't want stories and whimsy and nonsense.
00:43:51
Speaker
When a community builds around an industry or a product, it's not just a crowd of people, a community of value builds based on knowledge. So when the industry comes at them and said, we made this product because of this and it's nonsense, it'll be treated as nonsense and they will always be kept at a distance and they'll be forced to follow.
00:44:12
Speaker
When any producer decides that they're going to be open about all the processes, when they're going to say, you know what, this is a price point whiskey. We need to make as much of this as possible. We need to fight with everybody else in the supermarket shelves. We're going to try and make it as good as we possibly can for that price point.
00:44:31
Speaker
All of these whiskies over here, we're going to put out 46% plus, we're going to until filter them, we're not going to color them, and we're going to give you an age statement. Or if we can't give you an age statement, we'll tell you why. We haven't given you an age statement because it's been made of a vatting of products that span four decades, something like this. They're going to give us as much information as they can within the regulations. That builds community because there's a trust there.
00:44:58
Speaker
So when brands talk about the community, they're often talking about the specter of community. When brands see communities building like around our channels,
00:45:12
Speaker
when they see our community building like in the Whiskey Tribe in the States, the community building around Drawfee's channel. When they see that, they think, okay, how can we do that? And sorry, you can't and you don't need to. It already exists. Concentrate on bringing the best possible product
00:45:34
Speaker
And you've got a community of evangelists out there that will take care of it all for you. And if they're kind of making things at a price point and pointing in a different direction from that community, why do they want to build community? You don't want community. You just want people to pick up your product going through airport travel retail. Don't talk about community. It's different. So yeah, so often when people came to me in my day job and talked about building a following and community and things, they didn't actually know what they were asking for.
00:46:02
Speaker
and what it would put on their shoulders to produce. So it's interesting. It's interesting times. And I'm constantly talking to marketing and communications people regularly. And I think we're passing that stage now. Most of them are starting to understand those very basic things. As we all kind of grapple with new technologies and new ways of building community, right?
00:46:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting to me too because I feel like that's being forced on the commercial world because the individual, the community, the consumer is so much more savvy now than they were six months ago, a year ago, 10 years ago. They see right through that stuff and
00:46:51
Speaker
whether it be sort of disingenuous labeling claims on a bottle or on a packet, whether it be a half-baked attempt to create their own media or their own community, people smell bullshit a mile away. And I think that's starting to reflect on, I mean, look at Facebook advertising, right? When that first came out, that was a goldmine. You put a buck in, you get three back. It was almost like guaranteed.
00:47:21
Speaker
But now it's the complete and utter opposite. You put a buck in and you get 20 cents back and the idea is that you try and turn that 20 cents into $2 over the next five years of the lifetime of that consumer. And I think the idea of community has gone that way as well. And I've had this conversation with people. I've had
00:47:44
Speaker
The hey, we've got this awesome brand. We'd love to start a YouTube channel to advertise our products Okay, cool. Are you in the business of making a product or in the business of making a YouTube channel? Because if you want to go that route That's cool. But it's going to take you two years three years five years of putting a video out every single day that has nothing to do with the advantages of your product and
00:48:10
Speaker
You make six videos and maybe you buy yourself the right to put one video out that's actually advertising your crap. It's when people see the YouTube content or any social media channel as a delivery system, as a megaphone. When they don't realize that that isn't a megaphone, that in itself, whatever channel it may be, Instagram, YouTube, that in itself is a thing and it can exist in its own right.
00:48:37
Speaker
And it can apply and offer value in its own right. And it's only when people realize that, exactly the investment that you're talking about there, that they realize that, OK, this is a different thing. We are not in the business of making social media channels and YouTube content or whatever it may be. We are in the business of making a product. We need to work out a way in order to mutually, beneficially
00:49:02
Speaker
work with these things that already exist. Because imagine if it tried to build its own YouTube community in YouTube. It's not going to function, right? The community is going to be so granular and so fragmented that the community is actually dissolved by that. What you need is the community to build in a positive way and then find ways that you have a value to offer that community. And then you don't need to ask to come in. You'll actively be invited in.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, totally. I think that's the key to any of this, right? If you're trying to use anything to do with community or building a... I don't like the word influencer and I don't like the word following because it's been polluted in the same way that evangelism... Yeah, but we also... The context is everything. And if influencer is the right word or if we use it, we don't judge each other, Jesse, because we know the context that we're talking about. We understand exactly what you mean.
00:50:02
Speaker
Yeah. I think if you're, if you're in the business of doing any of that, the key is value, like you said, right? You have to be able to distance yourself from, you know, I make this bottle of spirits and I know it's so awesome. So if I put it out there, everyone else will know it's awesome too. You have to completely detach yourself from everything you know, or that you want people to know about you.
00:50:28
Speaker
and put yourself in the shoes of the person that's going to be receiving whatever it is that you're putting out there. And does that offer value without this? If you took this away from the picture, does that thing... Yes. Is it something that they want to consume anyway? And what's an amazing hammer blow demonstration, I think, of what you're talking about is the fact that
00:50:54
Speaker
People are making a product there. And what they're hoping to do is sell a product for more than it costs them to make it. And that's how they can exist as a business. And that's fantastic. And that gives them the layers of things to invest in marketing and advertising and all of these things. But now that we're in a modern world where technology has come in and created all of these things that didn't used to exist, such as YouTube content as the prime example, they're thinking the YouTube model used to be one where you set up, you went to, ah,
00:51:23
Speaker
you know, a manufacturer or a producer, whatever it may be, they gave you free stuff and you reviewed it and you talked about it. And you could sustain yourself and you could get lots of free stuff. But then concepts like community funding came along through models like Patreon. And suddenly you're in a situation where you go, wait a minute, I can be, I don't need to ask for free stuff.
00:51:44
Speaker
And I don't need anything. In fact, if producers give me free whiskey, it's a burden. I've got more whiskey than I can. I don't know what to do with it. So that's a big shift right there. When you tell people, thank you for the offer, please don't send that to me. I don't know what to do with it. However, one of those samples I'm interested in, tell me about that, and I'd like to go and buy it by myself. That's a land.
00:52:14
Speaker
a landslide change right there. And then the next thing that you can do with that is you suddenly put yourself in a position that you're completely independent. And as long as you're not being deliberately controversial, but you're actively sharing honest, as flat, honest opinions as you possibly can, you build that value to that community.
Creator Independence and Trust
00:52:39
Speaker
and then you become more valuable to that producer as well, because they then seek you to be positive about their product, but they know that it can only happen if they have a good quality product.
00:52:50
Speaker
So they just concentrate on what they're good at. You concentrate on what you're good at. The community are happy consuming what they enjoy. Well, and they can actually listen to you because they know you're independent, like you said, right? And it doesn't have to be hard-line one way or the other. I mean, if someone, I'll be honest about it, if someone gets in touch with me and says, hey, we've built a widget. We think you'd really love the widget. Widgets are awesome. You need a widget. I'll say, sure, send it to me. I'll try it.
00:53:20
Speaker
I'll tell you what I think of it before I put it in the video. But the widget, you're sending that to me, and that has nothing to do with whether or not it's going to get into a video or whether or not I'm going to advertise it. If I try it and I like it and I put it in the video, I'll tell people what I actually think about it. Not, oh, I'm getting a free widget and that's worth $100, so now I have to put it in the video and tell people I love it.
00:53:47
Speaker
That just destroys everything we stand for. Yeah. I mean, oftentimes these wedges.
00:53:53
Speaker
I mean, they're not things that we get on loan because they're worth so much money or anything, and we need to box up and send back. These things tend to be things that are affordable. And oftentimes, it gets to the point that, well, if this is a value to the community, I don't really want to be spending my money on all of these affordables. I'd rather just pick a few here. And it really depends on the context of what you're reviewing and what you're talking about.
00:54:20
Speaker
I have the luxury and I have to be honest Jesse I think you do too that neither of us are single product reviewers we don't sit down and review isolated products or we do in a very soft way let's say but what we do is we're able to talk about much more general concepts and it kind of puts us in a slightly more comfortable position I think. Whereas if you're trying to do one or two videos a week every week
00:54:45
Speaker
How can you sustain that? Your community needs to be huge in order to be able to afford that kind of outlay. So yeah, it does get to the point that you do need to do exactly what you're talking about. You need to take the product, make a decision whether you like it. If you don't like it, talk to the producer and say, I'm going to say these things about this. Do you really want me putting out a video about this? I don't think I want to talk about this. And find other ways like that to
00:55:11
Speaker
to not have to rely on free stuff, I guess. I mean, the reason that we have people backstage right now is that both of us have utilized the Patreon model.
00:55:27
Speaker
Yes, and it blows my mind every single day that I get a reminder that Patreon exists that anyone would want to essentially send me money to keep doing what I do. But the very fact that people do that, I've realized that one, it helps me justify my time, right?
00:55:48
Speaker
If I didn't have a budget for the channel and it was a financial burden on the family, I wouldn't be able to keep doing it. Like just real talk. That's the way it is, right? But it's more than just having a budget for the channel and being able to justify my time, you know, to be able to support the family through it. It's now I wake up.
00:56:09
Speaker
And I've had a long day and I really don't want to spend two hours in front of a computer screen editing before I run out to the shed and run the still for eight hours. Oh, but there's these people that believe in me enough to send me money every month. I'm going to get my ass out of bed, you know? So I realized that it's important for me from that point of view as well. And I can't thank those people enough for it. And I think that in and of itself removes that whole
00:56:37
Speaker
it removes the transaction of the value for the channel, right? You're no longer just, you're no longer plugging a widget to get money from the widget people. Yeah, what's amazing about it is you're going to keep creating the content anyway. These people are paying you to support you, to encourage you, knowing all the while that if they don't pay, that content will still come. Yeah. It makes me emotional. I find it hard to hold it together when I talk about it.
00:57:04
Speaker
because it does it when you you said it blows your mind and you mean that it literally makes it difficult to comprehend oh yeah yeah i mean that very very specifically i i i'm not just paying lip service there or anything it's it's i'm always trying to find different ways to say thank you without making it sound thank you thank you thank you and it's just because
00:57:30
Speaker
constantly you're like no but I really am so thankful but I have to go back to when I was a fan when I wasn't a creator when I was watching channels that I really enjoyed I was a patron of them
00:57:40
Speaker
before and then I felt good about that and I got something out of that. But now that I'm on the other side of it, I have to keep that perspective and understand that it's something that's very two-way. It's not just you taking money from the community, it's that you then have to bring the best that you possibly can for the community.
00:58:00
Speaker
And it's always optional. It's never obligatory. And they can take it anytime that they want, and they can support when it's appropriate for them to support it. Especially when the world turns itself on its head and things are tough for everyone. So please, guys, I've had a few people email me or message me and say, I'm sorry, but I
00:58:25
Speaker
You owe me nothing. I owe you. So please. Absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. We have to wait and see how things are going to play out over the next few weeks and months ahead. How long this is going to be. I am expecting to take a hit there.
00:58:45
Speaker
But March has been fantastic for me again. And I think it's because people appreciate that, you know, you're saying, wait a minute, I'm not frontline. I can't do anything. I can't do all. The only thing I can do is schedule more V pubs, more lives, more community time, more. It's the only thing I can do to affect.
00:59:03
Speaker
Do people really want that right now? I don't know. And then the self-doubt kicks in, imposter syndrome, all of these things. So you just ask your page, how do you feel about more content? And they say, yes, of course, right? And then usually bring more content as well received, as well attended.
00:59:19
Speaker
And then you realize, damn it, it's not much, but I can do something. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Thank you Patrons. Thank you Patrons. Thanks guys. There's tears in your eyes. I'll never tire of saying it. Yeah. All right. I know that Roy needs to get out of here pretty soon team. So I just want to, I want to cover this off by having a real quick talk about what people can do if you are in a craft distillery.
00:59:46
Speaker
what you can actively do to market your product. I'm using air quotes here that you probably can't see if you listen to the podcast. And then we're gonna... Sorry, Roy? To our community, yeah. Yeah. And then we're gonna get out of here and we're gonna do a real quick Q&A session with the Patreons to try and say thank you to them. And then we're gonna let Roy get back to lunch after he's had a whiskey or two.
01:00:13
Speaker
the fifth
01:00:28
Speaker
empty. I've only poured this much and I'm still sipping it now but it does taste of it is wonderful. I do feel a little bit of guilt as I look around in broad daylight and at this time of the morning having that taste right. I feel like I should be on a whiskey distillery tour or something but no it's yes I'll have this one and then I'm on to lunch. I'm not driving anywhere today anyway come on we're locked down so. Yeah. June 8 would be nice but continue Jesse sorry.
01:00:57
Speaker
No, no, don't be sorry. So I think I am starting to get more people that have been in the community for some time that have now transitioned to being professionals and also professionals that are in the community that are starting to find
01:01:13
Speaker
the content that I'm creating and people asking questions or asking what they can do or how they can work with us. And for me, the answer to that is super simple, right? If you're in the industry, presuming you're making a good product, then you've got knowledge that I want. You've got
01:01:31
Speaker
knowledge, understanding, experience that I want to know about. And generally that relates to what the viewers want to know as well. If I want to geek out on something, the people that watch the channel want to geek out on it too. So the easiest way to quote unquote market your product is for me anyway, from my point of view,
01:01:50
Speaker
is to get in touch with me and organize something like this. And instead of talking about community, we can talk about whatever it is that you geek out about. If you love yeast and that's where you get your house flavor from, cool, let's talk about yeast. And I think I really need to, this is a great time to flag this. And this is something that I'm passionate about. Home distillers are not there to rob you of your business. They're gonna
01:02:17
Speaker
Are you still there, Roy? You've frozen up. Oh, you are? OK, cool. I'm hooked on what you're saying, absolutely. Sorry, guys. We're having technical difficulties here. Damn you, coronavirus. You can hear me, though, right? I can. I can hear you wonderfully. Silky smooth. Where was I? I was mid-rant. Yes, home distillers are not there to rob you of your business. In fact,
01:02:39
Speaker
If you're making a good product and you're making a craft, quote unquote craft product, they're more likely to buy from you because they want a commercial stick in the sand to compare their product to. They want a commercial lens to look at their hobby still through. They want a commercial example to bring them into a new genre or a new sort of type of spirit.
01:03:05
Speaker
I'd never had a crazy, funky, pot-stilled Jamaican rum before. So when I wanted to make one, the first thing I did is went out and spent way too much money on a bottle of rum before I made a rum, which just makes sense, right? And this has been shown over and over again in the craft beer world that craft brewers, home brewers,
01:03:27
Speaker
buy more craft beer than other people. This is what they do, man. Like the whole idea of, oh, well, we're not going to get our tax dollars or we're not going to be able to sell beer to these people is just, it's ludicrous. So my point being is that you've got a huge opportunity there as a craft distiller to tap into that community by sharing what it is that you do and being authentic, which is what Roy was saying earlier.
01:03:52
Speaker
So that's, I guess, my piece from where I sit. How about you, Ray? Like when it's more of a review and discussion of the product. When you talk about home distilling and moving from home distilling into being a commercial business and trying to bring something that you can then market and monetize in order to make a business out of it, I get frustrated with the whisky industry because they've been making a product for hundreds of years that is already firing passions in people.
01:04:20
Speaker
Their battle is already won. It's like they're holding this thing and they choose to destroy it when it goes wrong, right? It's like they've already got something that's impassioning people. It's not going to be difficult to take it. It's just going to be down to being obtuse or difficult or not open-minded enough or having a really... But in your scenario, what needs to happen is that the modern way of doing things is not setting yourself up as an isolated,
01:04:51
Speaker
business and kind of just trying to have these kind of bidirectional point-to-point sales with people. It's a much bigger thing. You have to have a much bigger value. And the way that you expand and make your value more is by collaboration. Now collaboration, I was to describe that to you, would sound a lot like competition in the traditional sense. But it isn't. Because when you collaborate,
01:05:20
Speaker
everybody working together raises the value offering for the community. And you cross-pollinate followers too, right? You bring people from both tribes or camps to the same thing. And if you try to hide in your bubble, say, no, no, people, I only want people to buy my thing, my thing, my thing, my thing, carry on, the community will isolate you.
01:05:44
Speaker
Because the value offering of these guys over here that are doubling their offer by collaborating and being much more open, because they are authentic, they've got nothing to hide, they can be honest. And through that model of collaboration, setting up, like a whisky festival is a perfect example. If you go to a whisky festival, you've got competitors lined up next to each other, table to table.
01:06:11
Speaker
And they quickly realize that they are the same people. They are friends. They're doing it the same way. Their audience is the same. And in that whisky festival, they endear themselves much more because they're not trying to differentiate themselves. They're standing up and saying, we're part of a bigger picture here. Here's our product. It's optional. Do you want to hear about it?
01:06:31
Speaker
If not, here's our friends over here from another place or whatever. That's a very, very powerful thing, and it's something that traditional businesses are still struggling with. We call it, in marketing, we call it congruence and congruent marketing. The idea that a McDonald's can sell much more McDonald's product if they position themselves next to a Burger King.
01:06:51
Speaker
you know, and the KFC, if they're all together, lots of people are going to head there because all the choices and the variation, the choice is there. Whereas if McDonald's decides, no, I don't like KFC Burger King, I'm going to go away over there. Well, they're probably going to find that more people are going to go to the KFC Burger King joint. So they have to be in this collaborative environment where they can offer more to their potential audience. That very aspect of collaboration
01:07:19
Speaker
sparks community. There's an inevitability. That's interesting. That's kind of a, look at Ironroot in Texas. One of the most openly collaborative with other distillers, with other marketing channels, social media channels, it doesn't matter. They're open. They want to talk about the product any way you want. They'll take any question you like, any prickly question.
01:07:44
Speaker
Now, they're not the only ones doing it, but they were one of the first and one of the most open that I came across. And it's starting to happen in other places, even in the traditional world of Scotch whisky now. We're starting to see people open up a little bit. So if craft distilling can tap into that idea of collaboration and not trying to build a community channel by channel, by channel, by channel, but coming together
01:08:10
Speaker
that's the way to do it and they probably need somebody a creator like you to funnel that Jesse, I have to say. We will see. I don't know how you feel. If you agree with that, there's a concept but yeah. No, I 100% agree with that and I think that comes back to the fact that community is contagious, right? If you see a brand that you love
01:08:34
Speaker
openly embracing another brand that you've never heard of? I mean, what are you going to do? You're going to be interested in it. You're going to try it. You're going to say, oh, this doesn't taste. Let's make up a product. It doesn't taste like Ironroot normally tastes. It's got something different in it. And that difference has to, I assume, come from this other distillery that they're collaborating with. Maybe I should go and look at them. And it's more than just the product. It is the process as well.
01:09:04
Speaker
And I think, I think that any craftsman that is so heavily into their craft that they can be good enough, they can literally be world class, like once again, like Ironroot, you often run the risk that these are the people that they can't see past just the product to the fact that there is a brand sitting around it as well. And all these sort of intangible things that come
01:09:29
Speaker
into it. So I think you've touched on that, which is really interesting. But we're over time already, Roy. So thank you very much. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed this. And I'm getting the feeling we might have to make an excuse to do something like this again sometime, mate. We're only limited by imagination, Jesse, the subjects that we could cover.
01:09:51
Speaker
even a lower and the opposite end of the world from each other, doing slightly different things. But we're connected by this fantastic thing. Yeah. You know, I would be more than happy to do it again. And I hope that I can find an excuse to have you on my channel sometime as well.
01:10:07
Speaker
Oh, please, I would absolutely love that. That would be great. I was just going to raise a glass to thank everybody that's come in from our community here tonight, today. Let's. This morning. I mean, there are people, Christina is in, Jimmy Legg is in, Orange Bull is in, Jeremy Simms is here. There are people on your timescale at Jeremy at Time Zone, but Christina and Nicholas Burton, I mean, it's either very, very late at night or very, very early in the morning. It's early in the morning where they are.
01:10:35
Speaker
And the people have come to eavesdrop on this little recording. Let's raise a little glass to those fantastic guys.
01:10:43
Speaker
Thank you guys, here's to community. Indeed. So I think that's a great, a great note to finish the official podcast on Roy. I thank you, man. I appreciate it. And I can't wait to be able to have a drink with you and again in person, cause it's, this is good, but it's not quite the same. Absolutely. I agree. Let's just have this thing blow over and be behind us and get together at some environment in the future. My friend, that would be fantastic.
01:11:13
Speaker
So I know that was a little different than what we normally do here, but I feel like the times call for it. It's something that I wanted to highlight. It's something I wanted to talk about from a personal point of view, from an enjoyment point of view, from a fulfillment point of view, but also a little bit about how these things tie into actually selling the products that we love and the product that we love to make.
01:11:35
Speaker
So if you're in the commercial world of distilling, it doesn't matter what beverage you make, I would love to talk to you. Feel free to get in touch with me, write me an email, and let me know what it is that floats your boat, what it is that you geek out about, what it is that you love to chase about the craft, and I'd love to have a talk to you. To everyone else, this has been a blast. I'll catch you next time. See you later, guys.