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#20 Spencer Whelan. Texas : The Wild West Of Whiskey & The Shield That Protects It
593 Plays4 years ago
Spencer Whelan is the CEO of the Texas Whiskey Trail and the Executive Director of the Texas Whiskey Association. It's an exciting time for Texas Whiskey, we are witnessing the birth of a new whiskey region that punches well above its weight. Spencer talks about how having a "team of rivals" is advantageous to distillers, distilleries, consumers and the progress of whiskey as a whole. https://texaswhiskey.org/
https://texaswhiskeytrail.com/
https://chasethecraft.com/support
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Transcript
Sponsorship and Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
How's it going chases? I hope you're having a kick-ass week. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Adventures in Home Brewing, a sweet online store in America where you can get your home brewing, mead making, linemaking, and yes, even distilling needs.
00:00:17
Speaker
Right from the old computer machine homebrewing.org slash ctc that'll take you to their specials page and whatever you buy on the website after that you'll get for the same price that you normally get obviously they love it because you're buying some stuff from it but it also gives me a little kickback as well essentially for free you're buying me a coffee or a beer you get what you need and it helps me out as well so that's pretty cool thank you Adventures in Homebrewing
00:00:42
Speaker
This podcast is also brought to you by Gladfield Malt. Great malt mate right here in New Zealand, which I freaking love. They've been helping me out for a long time now, so I thoroughly appreciate that. If you haven't tried some yourself, get your hands on some, you won't be disappointed.
Meet Spencer Weiland and Texas Whiskey
00:00:55
Speaker
My guest today is Spencer Weiland from Texas in America. And I got to tell you, man, this guy is one of my favorite people in whiskey, a absolute top notch
00:01:07
Speaker
Just an all around awesome human being. Spencer and his wife Sarah were some of the first people I met in Texas and I'm honored to say that we got on like a house on fire. I love hanging out with them. I can't wait to physically be able to actually get back to Texas and hang out with Spencer and Sarah and all the other crew.
00:01:25
Speaker
in Texas. But the real reason we're talking to Spencer today is he is the CEO of the Texas Whiskey Trail and the executive director of the Texas Whiskey Association and both of those things have interesting connotations for distillers, distilleries, the industry as a whole and also the consumers, the people that just enjoy drinking whiskey especially if you like you know being able to go in
00:01:51
Speaker
hang out at a distillery, visit a distillery, meet the distiller, do tours, all those sorts of things. So any whisky discussion with Spencer is a whole lot of fun, but whether or not you are a distiller, a hobbyist, or a just a really enthusiastic consumer of whisky, you're going to find this podcast interesting for you specifically. So without further ado, Spencer Weiland from Texas.
Cultural Significance of Texas Whiskey
00:02:19
Speaker
Spencer, welcome, and thank you so much for taking the time to join us. For those of you that don't know, Spencer is the CEO of the Texas Whiskey Trail and the director, executive director of the Texas Whiskey Association. And the reason we wanted to get you on to talk is to kind of, I guess, illuminate and spread the good word of
00:02:46
Speaker
distilleries working together of making something special of the region that you're in, of creating a bit of a buzz of, you know, being able to bring people in as a destination and also being able to export your whisky as a coherent sort of idea or concept from a specific location. And I think you're in a really unique place to talk about this because Texas whisky is new, relatively. And that's exactly what you guys are doing, right?
00:03:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I mean, that's that's the entire concept behind the association and the trail is that Texas is unique. And we know that it's unique because you go around the world, you show them a shape of the
00:03:30
Speaker
geographic boundary or political boundaries of the state of Texas and everybody pretty much knows what that shape is, right? You can walk to New Zealand, you can walk to Australia, you can walk to China and you show them a picture of the state of Texas and they understand that's Texas, right? So as I like to say, Texas has really good brand awareness, whether or not there's a whiskey associated with it or not, you know?
00:03:52
Speaker
That's an interesting point, dude. I hadn't actually thought of that. But groundwork's been laid for you, right? You're 100% right. Yeah. And a lot of people, I've heard it referred to like when people from outside of the United States think of Americans, oftentimes they think Texas, right? Like the cowboy and the guns and, you know. I need to admit something here to you, dude. In fact, I may have already told you this, but when I was a little old,
00:04:22
Speaker
New Zealand kid at 17, 18. A shiny-faced boy. I had no interest whatsoever of going to America. I kind of wanted to get out of New Zealand and see the world a little bit. America was literally at the bottom of the list.
00:04:45
Speaker
Really? Yeah, and it was for exactly exactly that reason.
Texan Stereotypes and Whiskey Identity
00:04:49
Speaker
I thought America was Texas and I bought the the Hollywood bullshit line of what Texas is hook line and sinker. Yeah. And, you know, I thought you guys were yokels and overalls and guns, you know, like. And then I met my wife and I went to California and went, oh, wait, this is what I thought America was. Yeah.
00:05:10
Speaker
And I kind of started to like California a little bit. And then I decided I didn't like it. And then I came to see you guys and I felt completely and utterly at home. Like Texas is literally, you know, it's my spiritual home in America, pun intended with spirits. But, you know, I guess. So do you find that you have to fight that image that people have of Texas for your brand? Yeah. Or is it kind of like you roll with it and turn it into something good?
00:05:40
Speaker
So I think there's an element of, I think there's an element of fighting it, but also embracing it at the same time, because you're not fighting the brand. What you are is you have to understand where people are starting from in their, in their understanding of anything. And it's kind of like when, if you were to say, you know, to look at Scotland, for example, right?
00:06:00
Speaker
you know, if you think of a Scott in your head, you're like killed and accent and you know, you just you start thinking about all of these media generated images of what that that meme is in your head,
Certified Texas Whiskey Standard
00:06:17
Speaker
right and But as is anybody who's traveled the world knows once you get there, you know that it's there's there's some stereotypes which tend to be true like yeah, there's a lot of guns in Texas
00:06:30
Speaker
That's true. That is absolutely 100% true. There is absolutely a whole lot of amazing barbecue in Texas. That is absolutely 100% true. Right. There is a lot of wide open spaces. There's a lot of liberty. There's a lot of people on horseback, you know, but like not walking down the streets, like, you know, you may think, you know, all of those things are elements of it, but it's also, you know, there's a corner store and there's a grocery store and there's all the
00:07:00
Speaker
the typical kind of, you know, box store type things that you see everywhere, right? You know, in corporate chains and all the other kind of things. But one thing that is clear is that people's perception of Texas is one of
00:07:16
Speaker
Independence, it's one of authenticity, right? I mean, kind of that cowboy ethos, right? There's, there's a lot of that kind of, like I said, when I say Texas has good brand awareness, that's what I mean, is that people understand kind of the meme of Texas, even if they don't understand Texas directly, right?
00:07:36
Speaker
And, you know, you talk about California, I mean, California and Texas kind of have this rivalrous relationship, right? A lot of the celebrities are moving, like, I think, like, you know, Joe Rogan and people like that have left California to come into Texas, because there's, quote unquote, more freedom and things like that. But I think it's,
Building the Texas Whiskey Industry
00:07:57
Speaker
So there's like this rivalry, but it's important that people understand, especially globally, that Texas is a country. It really is, right? You know, we can fly our flag at the same level as the American flag because we were our own country first. You know, I say we, I was there for it.
00:08:18
Speaker
I'm not, I'm an American first, but I'm a Texan too. And as a Texan, you have that identity of this is a place.
00:08:28
Speaker
And again, to compare it to Scotland, for example, the entire island landmass of Scotland can fit in an area that is Dallas to College Station to Austin, Texas, basically that triangle. That's Scotland. And when people make a lot of, people made a pretty big deal about the five different whisky regions of Scotland. You've got Highlands, you've got Lowlands, Campbelltown,
00:08:56
Speaker
Isla, and which one am I forgetting, space side? I guess that's technically space side of Thailand's, but you get the idea. People make a lot of waves about there being regions of whiskey within one country's identity. And what I think is unique about Texas is one, it's young in the whiskey industry, but two, American whiskey is nothing new.
00:09:23
Speaker
relatively. It's new in the history of the world, but Kentucky bourbon has been a thing for a long time now. American whiskey has obviously been big for a while now, and there were originally a lot of people who were good at marketing, but
00:09:42
Speaker
trying to capitalize on the Texas brand without making Texas whiskey in Texas. Right. Yeah. Notice making disabled stuff and slapping a Texas flag on the bottle or something. Right. Exactly. And that is, I mean, I guess there's a couple of things legally at the federal level that make that problematic. But, you know, there's so many labels being approved by the federal government that
00:10:09
Speaker
They're not always going in and checking to make sure that everything in the bottle is matching what it says on the label. Yeah, I've heard from a lot of people that it's essentially a honor system until you get unlucky. Yeah, it's an honor system with an affidavit that you're basically saying that what you're saying is true. And if they catch you on the back end, then there may be penalties. But otherwise, no. It's just submit your label and be honest about it.
00:10:38
Speaker
And, but for Texas, that's a problem, right? Because there's lots of places where you can make whiskey in the United States. And in fact, there's a couple of whiskey brands that are Canadian whiskey that are coming into Texas and putting Texas labels all over the bottle. Right? So you're actually having products of another country come in and not identify themselves as an American product, but a Texas product. And
00:11:03
Speaker
When you get to that level of brand awareness that people know the name Texas and they think cowboy, whiskey, those kinds of things, that's an easy connection to make. But what's not an easy connection is that there actually are legitimate distilleries and innovative distillers that are doing amazing work inside of the state of Texas. And you know, that's what this symbol up here, the certified thing was the first thing we did.
00:11:33
Speaker
was we created a standard that said, okay, you can't call it a certified Texas whiskey unless it has all five steps of the whiskey making process done in Texas. So mashing, fermentation, distillation, maturation, and bottom. If you do those five steps inside of the territorial boundaries of Texas, then it's certifiable. And that's a pretty low bar if you think about it, right? It's just like, do the work of whiskey making inside the state where you're saying it's coming from.
00:12:02
Speaker
It's funny because it's a low bar and also a high bar depending on where you're coming at it from. If you just talk to some random person picking up a bottle in the bottle store, they'd probably say, that's everything. What else could you do?
00:12:19
Speaker
But then you talk to some other people and you're like, okay, well, where was the barley grown? Where was it molted? Where did the barrel come from? Where was it maturated? And we had quite a few discussions at the beginning about like, well, can it be distilled in a different state but matured in Texas because the climate has such an impact on the maturation. And it was like, well, not really. And here's why, and it's not to be like,
00:12:47
Speaker
like rude to the brands that were doing that. But what it
Texas Whiskey Trail vs. Association
00:12:51
Speaker
is intended to do is to create an industry. And you can't create an industry unless you have the people who are making it. That means distilling and mashing and fermenting and all of those steps that require like the human capital and talent to actually do those steps of the whiskey making process. If all of that is outsourced to another place, then you're not building an industry, you're just branding.
00:13:17
Speaker
and, you know, maybe maturation in the state, but you're, it's basically a branding exercise at that point. But as you know, having been here in Texas, and seeing, you know, all of those steps of the process, every one of those steps is affected by the region, in the case of May. Yeah. So we want to build an industry around people.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's not a new concept of whisky. That is a, it's a pretty accepted concept that terroir is going to affect a product at multiple levels, right? You know, in different parts of the process. I think before we go any further, Spencer, do you want to kind of articulate the difference between the trail and the association? Yeah, sure. Because I think when we start talking about
00:14:08
Speaker
you know, what people can potentially start thinking about doing in their little part of the world, we might get to some specifics that are gonna not make sense if people don't understand the difference between the two. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, so the association came first. And like I said, its goal is to make that the certified Texas whiskey mark. And that's an association standard.
00:14:35
Speaker
that all of our members are at least making one product that meets the Certified Texas Whiskey Standard and then is, and this is an important point, and then every other whiskey product that is released underneath that distilleries brand or DSP number has to be true to the state of distillation if it's been, especially if it's been brought in from out of state. So basically, you know,
00:15:01
Speaker
If you've imported it from another state, you need to be honest that that is a product of another state, not a Texas state. The two rules are make one here, the rules are make one here, and then also be honest about every other whiskey product that you release.
00:15:21
Speaker
that it's possibly not made in Texas, or if it is made out of Texas, be honest about where it was made, right, and label that clearly on the bottles. So at the end of the day, the association is there for certification of some sort of a standard for what a Texas whiskey is, and
00:15:41
Speaker
transparency within the industry, because as you know, the alcohol industry is rife with deception. This is called what it is, right? It's deception, because it's, you know, it has a bad history, especially in the United States with prohibition and other things, it was kind of a hush topic. So like it was inherently, at least in America, it was inherently a, a
00:16:06
Speaker
negative thing or something that had to be obscured or something that was put inside of a different bottle, or the label was changed intentionally to hide it. Like there's this long history of deception on what's on the outside of the bottle versus the inside. And so the association is there to promote transparency and to promote some sort of standard. Now the trail is a subsidiary of the association. So it's, you know, adjacent to or
00:16:35
Speaker
Tangential from but it is is connected because you have to be an association member to be on the Texas whiskey trail That means you have to be making a certified product and then you have to have a tour Where the public is welcomed to come in and see the steps of the whiskey making process, right? So the trail is a tourist's way to come in and learn about Texas whiskey and what makes it unique and different in a very real and hands-on way, right?
00:17:05
Speaker
and you got to be there right about this time last year, did the trailblazer blend with Balconics and Jared Hempstead. Amazing. Amazing.
00:17:19
Speaker
experience. I mean, you know, I need to look at it. And that is a perfect example of what we want the trail to be is, is we not completely dissimilar. I mean, first of all, trails are not unique to Texas, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:36
Speaker
what we are a little bit unique in is that each one of our sections of the trail, North Texas, Hill Country, Gulf Coast, South Texas, all of those geographically are probably the size of Kentucky itself, right? So like, because Texas is such a big state, it's so spread out. There's so many different variations in climate and style and grain availability and all these things that
00:18:03
Speaker
you really need to take a year and just understand Texas and how whiskey relates in Texas. So we sell memberships, and those memberships allow people to go visit all of these distilleries throughout the year and take a free tour at any place that they go to and then get discounts.
Trailblazer Memberships and Consumer Engagement
00:18:21
Speaker
So it's a little bit different because
00:18:23
Speaker
We want people to engage with the trail as a concept and then engage with the distilleries wherever they are and take your time because Texas is too big to just do in a weekend or take a five-day trip, right? It's going to take some time. I was there for three weeks?
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. How many distilleries do you hit in three weeks? Five? I think that I actually saw it, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you saw how long it was taking. It takes three or four hours to drive between regions, right? Yeah. Minimum. Daniel Whittington, did he do every distillery on his bike in the end? He did the first 15 when we launched the trail. Is that what it was? Yeah, the first 15. We're now at 21 distilleries on the Texas River. How long did that take him?
00:19:13
Speaker
I think it took him, well, I think his bike broke down like on day. It took him a little longer than I think he was planning, but I think it took him like five days or something like that. But it was like 10 minutes or every distillery and then hit the road again, you know? Yeah. I mean, I was showing up and hanging out with people for eight hours or, you know, stayed overnight or whatever, but at the same way, I kind of feel like,
00:19:40
Speaker
That's what you're inviting people to do, right? You don't want them to just show up, say hi, have a look at the bottles on the shelf, maybe get a cocktail or a whiskey and piss off. You want them to show up and actually meet the people that work there and take the tour and see what makes that distillery different from the next one you're going to. Because otherwise, what's the point, right? If you're going to see the same thing over and over again, then you're not going to understand the nuance and the difference.
00:20:06
Speaker
And they are very, this is one thing I can say with 100% surety that I think Texas has the most variability, distillery to distillery of any place I've seen. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, granted, they're all new. So part of that is the newness of the thing. There's not like a standard model that people fit into that this is what a distillery should look like. And this is what a distillery tour should be like.
00:20:32
Speaker
You go to kentucky you'll see a similar kind of style cuz they're all they're almost all we're doing merbens so that's a style that they so they have the same kind of brain and mash bills.
00:20:43
Speaker
And they have a history, kind of a heritage of what Kentucky bourbon is like. And it's a little bit similar, you know, distillery to distillery. Scotch whisky is the same way. Yeah. And Texas whisky is not like that. There's single malts, there's ryes, there's rye malts, there's bourbons. There's so many different styles in so many different regions. And to kind of fit into that Texas independent spirit, they're
00:21:12
Speaker
there's not a particular way to build a distillery. And these, you know, ladies and gentlemen that are putting this all together are doing what they want to do based on the region that they're in and based on the kind of things that they like to see. And I'd say every, every distillery is unique in that regard in Texas. Oh, a hundred percent, man. Like you put
00:21:36
Speaker
any two distilleries next to each other and you see a market difference between them. And you put three into the mix. Like the three that I probably spent the most time with would have been Belconus, Ironroot, and Leisure. And you put those three together and you can draw similarities between any two of them. But you've got Ty who's smoking his own grain and running that awesome handmade,
00:22:02
Speaker
like borderline. It's basically a giant homestealer still. Yeah, it's a really big homesteal. Yeah, that that's awesome. And he's got a shack out the back that he's called smoking grain and with Pete that he's bringing in from Ireland. And then you go to Belcote and Texas Heartwood smoked for
00:22:21
Speaker
Like doing the Texas barbecue smoke on malted grains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's every part of it too. It's like you said, it's the way that the bar looks, it's the way that the distillery looks, it's the personality of the people, it's the goal, the aim, the drive of the people, it's the processes that they're using, the equipment they're using.
00:22:45
Speaker
And then, funnily enough, when you get things that are different in all those ways, the product from each of the distilleries is quite different, too, you know. Well, and you work with Phil Austin as well. And they couldn't be any more different in the way that they brand themselves. They're very Austin urban.
00:23:05
Speaker
You know, I don't want to throw the term hipster on them because that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but it's definitely an Austin vibe, right? They're using a column still, a big, you know, 40 foot column still as opposed to pot still distillation. Whereas, you know, and they also have like Nancy Fraley, the master blender who works with them, but Iron Roots using a pot still, you know, like a Vendome
00:23:33
Speaker
large custom pot still that they have, and then you go and you have the column still. Everything is variable and very different from distillery to distillery. I think this is a nice way to segue into the main thing that I wanted to talk to you about, which is,
00:23:55
Speaker
There is a, it's almost like an inbuilt, innate human nature for when you find yourself in a position like that to see people as the others, right? Like for, let's say like for Thai to look at what
00:24:14
Speaker
anyone else is doing or, you know, I don't want to pick on Ty specifically, but any one of those places we just talked about to look at what everyone else is doing and saying, well, that's not what I'm about. So that's a little bit shit. And not only that, they're competing with me for, for bottle space on shelves, for, you know, for, for money, basically at the end of the day, however, whatever, whatever pathway you want to take it. And I think traditionally,
00:24:41
Speaker
Marketing has gone that way in a lot of different places in a lot of different industries and a lot of different ways that it represents itself What are the advantages of saying screw that I'm not buying any into any of that bollocks and I'm actually going to find these people and treat them as a an asset as an alliance as a someone that I can collaborate with that I can work with to
00:25:08
Speaker
make both of our lives better, basically. So what I like to compare it to is, you know, I keep using this term, a team of creating a team of rivals, right? Like you want, you want competition. Otherwise, it's not fun. And there's no interest and nobody's trying to create the next best list key and nobody's trying to create. Nobody's trying to innovate, right? If you don't have competition, there's not much innovation.
00:25:38
Speaker
So you want distilleries to be able to say, you know what, I'm going to do my thing and try to make mine the subjective best in the, in the world. Right.
00:25:49
Speaker
But at the same time, when you're talking about like a regionality or a general collective of brands, you want them to be housed underneath something that unifies them in their aim, right? So in the United States, you know, American football is under the NFL, you know, National Football League. And, you know,
00:26:12
Speaker
Dallas Cowboys are never gonna like the Philadelphia Eagles. They're never gonna be friends. They're always gonna be rivals, but they agree on the rules of the game, right? And you can apply that to any sports league throughout the world, right? Whether it's rugby, Australian rules football,
00:26:34
Speaker
FIFA football, whatever it is, the different leagues can compete with each other. But they all agree on the basic principles of the size of the field, the rules of the game, how the clock works. You know, those kind of things are basic standards that everybody agrees with so that they all understand at least they're flowing in the same direction when they're running against each other, right? They're racing down the same path, right?
Industry Maturity and Collaboration
00:26:59
Speaker
And that is something that,
00:27:02
Speaker
at the beginning of an industry is very hard to form, because there's a famine mentality at the beginning of an industry where it's like, if I work with them, then I'm going to not be the first and not get the first mover advantage. And right, right, like it doesn't, it doesn't mesh well with that concept of the early, early
00:27:22
Speaker
you know, companies. Apple didn't work well with Microsoft. Google didn't work great with Facebook. And in many ways, they still don't. But you get the idea that at a certain point, the industry comes to like a level of maturity, where they need to be able to say, Okay, we're all agreeing on some basic principles of what this industry looks like. And when, you know, the association and the trail came to be,
00:27:52
Speaker
it was like, okay, we need to educate people on what makes Texas whiskey unique, not from each other, but from Kentucky Berkeley and what makes it unique with like, you know, Japanese whiskey or Irish whiskey or Scotch whiskey, because we really do feel, and there's plenty of evidence to support this, but we really do feel like some of the best whiskeys in the world can come out of Texas. And, you know, Balcona is one best in glass in 2013 with a,
00:28:22
Speaker
single malt that was made under a bridge in Waco, Texas, and aged for a little over two years and beat 25-year-old whiskies or 20-year-old whiskies from Scotland, right? I am a republic, just won World's Best Bourbon this year. You know, first time outside of Kentucky, but that's happened. So like, it's, it's not that awards are what define
00:28:47
Speaker
The whiskey, and I always say, Texas whiskey isn't better than Scotch whiskey. It isn't better than Kentucky bourbon. It's different. And it's its own thing. And within that within this region, what we need to do is educate people on the variety, how whiskey is made in Texas, what makes it unique, what flavor profiles are available.
00:29:10
Speaker
and how do we get the world to understand that Texas whiskey as a category is something to be appreciated on its own.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yeah, so let's take those awards for example, right? If it was just that Balconas won Best in Glass and then Ironroot won Best Bourbon, that's great for them. Okay, whoopie do. But when it's Balconas from Texas wins Best in Glass and Ironroot from Texas wins Best Bourbon, now suddenly people are going, wait,
00:29:48
Speaker
What the hell is going on in Texas? Garrison Brothers Balmoray won Jim Murray, last year, Jim Murray's best microdistillery urban whiskey in Jim Murray's whiskey Bible. That's one person's thing. But again, it's a pattern of recognition. And there's been lots of gold medals from the San Francisco Spirits Competition and other things that we can talk about.
00:30:16
Speaker
But, you know, and again, awards aren't everything, but they are an indication of where the conversation is starting to flow. Right. Yeah. And, you know, I always say like, our bag wouldn't be our bag without loggable. Right. Yeah. Right.
00:30:35
Speaker
And Logibillon wouldn't be Logibillon without McCallum and something to compare it against, right? So like, at a certain point, you can't just say, Oh, there's this one unique spirit coming out of one place that's competing with everybody in the world. It's not just that. It's that there's a group of spirits that are competing with each other, and
00:30:58
Speaker
beating or being appreciated on a level at a global stage that shouldn't be happening with spirits this young. I mean, the industry is only 15 years old.
00:31:07
Speaker
completely punching above your weight, not in terms of size of landmass. I think you're punching a little under your weight actually on that one. But yeah, in terms of the age of the industry for sure. So I mean, I used to work at a company that produced very high end dog food. And there was, you know, with anything like this, whenever you're in marketing, it's like, what's your point of difference? Like that's kind of everything, right? Like that's where everything comes from.
00:31:37
Speaker
And people would ask that question and I'd have to admit, well, if you want to compare us to other New Zealand products, that's a pretty nuanced discussion. And that's kind of a crowded market. But if you want to go to America and then compare us to everyone else globally, you know, in a different market,
00:32:00
Speaker
Now we're completely pretty much a blue water product, right? Like we've got no competition really on what it is that we do. And New Zealand is starting to realize that more and more in the fact that if we market our product as a New Zealand product almost above anything else, that carries weight because it means something.
00:32:22
Speaker
elsewhere in terms of that difference. And I think that's kind of what you're getting at, right? Like, so if you can, if you can be a Texas certified whiskey and be on a shelf in New Zealand, then you've got a huge, like that, that's something that, that sets you aside from every other product on that shelf.
00:32:41
Speaker
almost, you know, at least there's another Texas whiskey there. And like you said, it doesn't mean that it's better. It doesn't mean, Oh, that's the best whiskey here. I'm going to buy that over, you know, whatever else you want to compare it to. But it makes it interesting for the customer, right? It creates something that is a, it's like a little, a little cookie trail to go down and look at. So I'd kind of like to hear what your thoughts are on, on what this,
Benefits and Opportunities for Distilleries
00:33:08
Speaker
bringing people together and creating a region, what the benefits are for the individual distillery, like other than what we've just sort of hinted at. And feel free to elaborate on that, too, I'm sure, a lot more eloquently than I. So there's, there's two, there's two big benefits that I see at the distillery level. And then there's, there's a whole lot of benefits at the consumer level, right? But at the distillery level,
00:33:32
Speaker
The first thing that I've seen, and this is not unique to our group, but, you know, there's other people who are doing things in Texas whiskey that are allowing for more collaboration between distilleries. But you talked about Daniel Whittington before. And let me see if I can bring it up here. This year was the first ever blend of certified Texas whiskeys, right? So the thing was like Balcones Iron Root in Andalusia.
00:34:02
Speaker
blended together and so that's an independent bottling that's giving credit to the distillers that participate in it and created a new whiskey based on the regional characteristics and as you know you know scotches and scotch without blended scotch right like the popularity of scotch whiskey is because of the blended category
00:34:26
Speaker
Right. So there's, there's a collaboration that's happening on an individual level at the distilleries where they can experience each other's spirits, understand from each other what their fermentation techniques were, what their distillation were, how they're making their cuts, what they're doing with their barrels. All of that just information sharing that happens not in a, in an anti-competitive way, but just like in, in a,
00:34:53
Speaker
you know, you absorb the industry information way. That's one benefit. But the other benefit is it can create new products that are unified under kind of an umbrella of like, this is a Texas whiskey, whether it's made at one distillery or multiple, right? Because at that point, you then you can create blending profiles that meet the market wherever it is. And
00:35:19
Speaker
So it kind of expands it beyond the simple craft of we're making just enough to sell out of our distillery and pour cocktails at our distillery to, okay, we're making enough to have a product on the shelf that's our unique product, but then also our product can contribute to somebody else's, maybe go into a blend.
00:35:38
Speaker
or maybe we can have like contract distilling within the state. That's important because if you want to make a certified Texas whiskey, it doesn't mean you have to distill it at your distillery. It means you can distill it at somebody else's distillery and use your own Mashville and use your own fermentation techniques if you wish, or your own maturation techniques. But it's happening within the state. So the industry is staying together.
00:36:07
Speaker
And that's the kind of thing that we want distilleries to be able to do is that there's a level of cooperation that's good. Again, to take it back to that NFL analogy, you know, think about it as trading players. They're literally like employees that have worked now at two or three different Texas distilleries. And that experience of knowledge builds upon itself generationally. And that's when you build an industry.
00:36:30
Speaker
So it's almost like you're allowing a greater economy of scale on each level of the business, right? Like from the employee through to maturation, like just literally the amount of spirit that can be created.
00:36:46
Speaker
but also through to like you say the blending and the consistency being able to create a certain product with more certainty because I mean we've talked about this heaps on this podcast but let's face it consistency is one of those absolute pain in the arse is for a small extremely extremely difficult
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah, so if you can if you can have actually the more I think about this and as I run my mouth I realize that the genius of it is you can you can pull very different spirits with very different characteristics from different distilleries because that from different distilleries and then you have enough volume from each of those to be able to then push a spirit in whatever direction you need within that you know emerging
00:37:29
Speaker
texas style like to take it a step further like this is an example here this is uh real spirits which comes from real ale brewing company which is a large texas craft brewery so which was actually the the one that i'm most disappointed in myself for not being able to get to yeah so next time next time soon as this coven mess is done you gotta make a second trip because it'll be yeah yeah
00:37:54
Speaker
But, you know, they have a couple different beer styles here, like a Belgian triple and a peated scotch ale. And that's those beer styles, minus the hops are being thrown into, you know, a still
00:38:10
Speaker
The distiller came, the current distiller came from high west. So he came from Utah down to Texas and he's distilling the previous distiller at Real Spirits. The first one was Ty Phelps, who's at Andalusia three miles down the road. And their current distiller who's working with Daven is a guy named Elazar, who's from Balcones. He distilled at Balcones for a few years. So like that little family of, and I call it a family, but you know, it's Texas, this kind of first generation of
00:38:40
Speaker
of Texas Distillers are kind of working together or working at multiple places, bringing in their experience. And I think that's why you see people doing Irish styles.
00:38:51
Speaker
You see people doing Scotch styles. You see people doing, um, you know, lime malts and, you know, triticale whiskies and things that are more indigenous. You know, Alcona says the blue corn, um, varieties that they use, iron root uses a whole slew of different corn varieties. Right. Pretty much. Right. So like there's experimentation and there's all of these things happening at the same time.
00:39:20
Speaker
And when people come and ask me like, well, what is the characteristic that makes Texas whiskey unique, right? To your point, right? It's not this symbol that means Texas whiskey. That's a shield that protects the integrity of the whiskey, right? That's not the definition of Texas. Because when you ask people what a scotch is, they're probably going to tell you,
00:39:45
Speaker
It's too smoky, or I don't like it, or it tastes like iodine, or something like that. And they're usually referring to ILO scotches, right? Yeah, and they don't realize that there's a whole variety. Some people don't even realize that scotch is whiskey, right? It's just like, well, that's scotch. And then people are like, well, let's make a Texas scotch. It was like, that's not possible.
00:40:11
Speaker
But you can make a Texas single mold that repeats with all these scotches. And those are the kind of things that you could do. So when people ask me what makes Texas unique, invariably every time I say it's talent, it's talent, talent, talent. Because we have extreme temperatures down here. Time is still an important part of it, but it's not as important as it is in Scotland, right? We don't need 24 years to make an amazing spirit.
00:40:39
Speaker
No, you've got the opposite problem. You're trying to figure out how to keep it in the cask longer. Exactly. Exactly. And that's where I'm, that's where I say it's talent. It takes the people who understand what a good whiskey should taste like in trying to refine that process. And you may be checking things daily to see when you should pull it.
00:40:58
Speaker
I had multiple distillers tell me that they will literally check daily. There's some stuff that they check and they're like, right, we need to get this out of the cask now.
00:41:11
Speaker
Because if we're going to bottle it in the next week, you know, but by tomorrow, it'll be completely different. You know, it might be a 25 degrees Celsius swing overnight and it'll just be a completely different product. It's bonkers, man. I mean, literally right now, as we speak, there is a cold front that is like stalled out over Austin and the normal part of Austin is 20 degrees, 20 degrees Fahrenheit colder than the south side of Austin right now as we speak.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah. So if your distiller is on the north side of that, because I like these cold, the cold, you know, cold fronts come in through the Rockies down the plains. And then they get usually make their way through the Austin region, but then the Gulf of Mexico moist air will push it back. So there's this kind of back and forth. And we're kind of right on that borderline. And I think that's why you see a lot of distilleries here, because it creates an interesting aging environment.
Impact of Climate on Whiskey
00:42:03
Speaker
And in the north, they get extremes, even colder than we do down here. But in the Gulf Coast, they get
00:42:10
Speaker
all that moist, warm, humid air that actually decreases the proof in the barrel because the moisture reenters the barrel. It's completely different, part of state to part of state, and that's why I think it takes talent.
00:42:26
Speaker
to understand what good whiskey is, how to make it, and how to make it where you are within the state of Texas. That makes it important. Yeah. Yeah. People ask me a lot, like, what is, what's so great about Texas whiskey? And I've struggled with it, man, like, because it's,
00:42:41
Speaker
In some ways, I want to say it's maturation is a huge part of it because of the extremes. But then I think Garrison Brothers and Andalusia, they're like, okay, well, you can't say that that's two totally different things. I think you're right.
00:43:01
Speaker
less than that? Yeah, it's bizarre. It's absolutely bizarre. But I think it's also the it's the it's the beauty of an emerging region, right? Like you've got so many that no one's pigeonholed because there are Texas distillery yet. Like if you if you open a Irish whiskey distilling company or a Isla distilling company, people are going to expect a very certain thing from you.
00:43:28
Speaker
Yep. And in a lot of ways, if you try and buck that trend, it's, it's not going to go well for you. Whereas you guys have got the, you got free reign, man. You can do whatever you want, right? Like you said, you're, you're making within, within reason, within style. I mean, I think you're exactly right. I think, you know.
00:43:47
Speaker
If I'm to project, you know, 1,500 years from now, I think there's probably going to be a style based on a region. There will be a Hill Country style that's more approachable. I'm guessing that that's the way things will trend. That said, there's nothing to indicate that right now, right? It literally is the wild west of whiskey because you can go to Still Austin and get a calm, still bourbon done with a French elvage proofing technique.
00:44:17
Speaker
Go 20 minutes down the road and get a blended whiskey at grouted barrel. Go another 30 minutes down the road and get smoked single malts next to a place that's doing malted whiskey from beer styles and then go up the road and go to Garrison Brothers and have a true almost Kentucky style bourbon done in a Texas fashion that is completely different from Kentucky, but is still
00:44:46
Speaker
a bourbon in a very traditional sense. And you're just, okay, well, where am I?
00:44:53
Speaker
I could be in Scotland. I could be in Ireland. I could be in Kentucky. These are all just like influences that are making Texas whiskey unique. And that's not too dissimilar from Texas itself. There's French influences. I mean, if you ever heard of the Six Flags theme park, right? Six Flags is actually originally from the Six Flags of Texas, right? The Six Flags of Texas. So there are the six countries that flew their flag over the state of Texas, right?
00:45:21
Speaker
So you have like everything from the French and Spanish to the American to Confederate. There are all these territories that claim to Texas. So there's Germanic heritage, there's Spanish, there's French, there's all these influences.
00:45:38
Speaker
in Texas because it was such a kind of sought-after piece of land that it's a lot like the culture of Texas. It's just like, well, bring what you got and do it here and make it unique here. And I think that's really, I think that's really attractive to somebody who wants to experience a tourism experience of what whiskey can be like within a region.
00:45:58
Speaker
That is a it's another excellent segue. Thank you Spencer I was just thinking that most of what we've been talking about has come from the association side like kind of the It's introspective in its industry facing what we're talking about in a fits of the sort of allegiance of this What did you call them team of rivals? Yeah, yeah whereas
00:46:24
Speaker
There's also the consumer facing side of stuff too, which is both a benefit for the consumer and anything that's a benefit for the consumer is ultimately going to be a benefit for the people that are bringing those consumers in. That's what business is. Do you want to talk a little bit about how collaboration and
00:46:49
Speaker
just this general idea of being able to work together while still trying to kick each other's ass. So from a consumer standpoint, like, and you were there for one of our premier early trail events, which was the best one. And we want two things to happen. We want the consumer to be educated and to get to taste some new and interesting things in the process. And then,
00:47:17
Speaker
and then get that out into the market so that more people can taste the thing that was created either with the trail members' help or because they were trying to work with trail members to create an expression that will meet the consumers where they are. And that's something that I don't think you get to see in a lot of distilleries. It's like, here's what we have, and we have a big variety, and you might find what you like, but you're not going to have input. It's a one-way conversation, right?
00:47:46
Speaker
And maybe you get a little bit of a peek behind the curtain, but that's it. I'm the artist and you just stay over there and like you say, like, you know, enjoy the amazing stuff that I'm putting out into the world or...
00:48:01
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, think of it as like making a movie, right? Like if you went to a backstage production tour of a movie studio or something like that, you would get to see how they make it, but you don't necessarily get to involve yourself into making the movie, right?
Consumer Interaction and Influence
00:48:22
Speaker
What we want to do with the Texas Whiskey Trail is get the consumers out there in a way that they can actually have an influence in what products are released in the future.
00:48:31
Speaker
Right. So this is a great example of that. This is the, this will be the fourth of our Trailblazer official selections. So let's see that little icon there. So that meant that the members of the Texas Whiskey Trail, you're the top level of membership. There you go. If you're a Trailblazer, we have these random
00:48:53
Speaker
moments where a trailblazer will get to come and be part of a team, whether it's five people or 20 people or whatever it is, lately because of COVID, it's fewer rather than more. But because of that desire to kind of involve them, we want to bring them in, work with the distillery and have a direct hand in shaping a new whiskey that consumers will want.
00:49:18
Speaker
Right. So this is, like I said, it's a blend of two different whiskey styles from the real heavy scotch ale and their doubles backbone Belgian triple style beer that have been distilled and matured.
00:49:32
Speaker
but then it's finished and partially finished in forecasts. And so we had our trail members go and broke them into teams and then they all blended their own proportions of those three types of casts. And then they put that together with the master distiller real spirits as the fourth team. And then we blind tasted everybody's thing and came out with a winner that actually became this product.
00:49:58
Speaker
And for the first time ever, we've got these like into stores. And so this is actually hitting shelves and directly influenced by the trail members. So the goal of the trail is, like I said, education on one hand to just fun. It's just fun to go visit distilleries and relax and have fun. So that's part of it. And we have like a point system where people can earn points for every visit that you make to the distillery.
00:50:27
Speaker
Use that to renew your membership next year, whatever. But also to actually create product in the process and let the consumers interact directly with the distiller, as you did with Jared.
00:50:41
Speaker
and say, okay, well, this is what I'm thinking. This is what my flavor profile leads towards. And they get to hear that in a very intimate, concentrated way instead of kind of working in an artist's bubble and just putting things out into the world and hope they work. So I think it's a pretty unique model. And it creates an environment where you want to go and tour distilleries and see how you can influence things.
00:51:11
Speaker
I mean, the genius of it to me is that in any product or industry or sport, for example, you're always going to have a spectrum of fans or purchases or whatever it happens to be, right? You're going to have the casual person little, you know, kind of turn up to a game when it's convenient for them and maybe they've got a, you know, like a team cap.
00:51:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, whatever, you know, then you've got the other people that literally, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Then you've got the other people that literally choose where they live because it's closest to their, you know, their home teens arena, arena, and they have season passes. They go to every freaking game. The idea of selling a pass is heresy. How dare you do that?
00:51:58
Speaker
They've got an entire cupboard full of, you get the idea, right? What I'm saying is that what you're doing is you're allowing the people that are the superfans of either whiskey, Texas whiskey, or a specific distillery, you're allowing them to have more access to what it is that they really, really love, which in turn almost levels them up to a extra super duper fan.
00:52:22
Speaker
And then they turn into a brand ambassador, basically. And they get like, dude, after I did that thing with Jared, it's all I could talk about for the next week. I mean, how unique is that in the world of whiskey and distilling to get to be with a master distiller that year that you did it? It doesn't happen, yeah. And so the very fact that I got to do that meant that I went to use Roy's
00:52:49
Speaker
Lexicon evangelized about it. I went out and told people who Jared was I went out and told people what the trail was I went out and told people about Balcona's product about Texas product and that was all facilitated Because of the fact that I was allowed to go and you know like exactly like you're saying not just be a fly on the wall, but actually have a hand and
00:53:15
Speaker
in something, which as a, I mean, like, let's go back to the sports fan. Like, imagine if, like, some of the fans were able to, like, choose the lineup for the night or something, you know? Like, it's kind of that level of interaction that just doesn't happen. So from the, from the consumer side, it's amazing. And then from the distiller side, it's like advertising that you just can't pay for. You can't buy that level of
00:53:40
Speaker
You know, I guess the people know when you're full of shit, right? And when I'm talking passionately about something, they know that I'm talking about it because I love it. And then you kind of have the same idea as the way people try to sell. Excuse me, like a lot of tech, right? They sell it with the idea of they sell it to the geeks.
00:54:08
Speaker
They make it amazing for the, for the geek, specifically because they know the geek's going to go to a barbecue that weekend. And they know that that is in their circle of friends and in their family.
00:54:18
Speaker
the wider sphere, that's the go-to person. Oh, Spencer's the geeky techy guy. I need a new computer. I'm going to go talk to Spencer. What should I buy? Buy this. It's because we reach you specifically. You're tapping into that whole idea, but doing it in a way that's not slimy on
00:54:39
Speaker
It's not marketing. It's just putting people together. You know, and Danny, Danny Whittington talks about this at the the Wizard Academy classes that he teaches. But like, there's, there's a real big difference between evangelizing something and being manipulative. Yes, that's exactly what I'm getting at. And an evangelical, not in the religious sense, but an evangelical is somebody who saw something firsthand and went out and felt like that felt the need to tell somebody about it. Yeah.
00:55:07
Speaker
Right. I love it so much. I want you to know about it, too, because maybe you love it. Right. I mean, that's that's, you know, again, not to go religious here, but like, that's what evangelical Christianity was, is the the people who were there around Jesus wanted to go out and evangelize on his behalf because they were there.
00:55:25
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what the word means. Let's make sure that people understand what we're saying. We're removing evangelize from any religious context and just talking about what the word actually means. It means to go out and speak the good word about the thing that you experienced firsthand.
00:55:44
Speaker
So when that is facilitated because you were actually there, then it is coming from a place of honesty. And it is coming from a place of transparency. If it's not starting from that point, then that's influencer marketing and manipulation and all the other things that go along with it, right?
Educating and Supporting Local Distilleries
00:56:06
Speaker
That frankly, this world is seeing the impacts of, right?
00:56:13
Speaker
You could have got in touch with me and said, I'll buy you a hotel and I'll pay you X amount of dollars, come along and make a video. That's slimy, dirty. There's, hey, dude, I like what you do. I reckon we'd get along. We've met once, why don't you come and hang out? And then, oh, by the way, I'm doing this cool thing, come along and
00:56:34
Speaker
enjoy it with me. You know, like, it's two very separate things. Yeah. And it creates, it's based in truth. And, you know, we have the tagline for the association that's called Taste the Truth, because that's what we really want people to do.
00:56:50
Speaker
We want people to be able to know that this product was made the way you're seeing it being made. You may have a hand in it if you're a trail member and you can actually taste the thing that you made. But here's the most important thing is both in your case with the Balcones event that you attended and for the trail members that were part of this in making this bottle. What was interesting is in both cases, they were blind tastings at the end of it forever.
00:57:20
Speaker
And in your case and with Real Spirits, the master distillers blend was the one that won. Yeah. Right. And I think that that's really significant because the trail members knew that it was fair, knew that it was blind. They knew that they had their own influence into a final product. But then when it came to which is the best product, it came from the expert's hands. Right. It came from the master distillers formulation that everybody was like,
00:57:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, that is better. And then there was a realization in their head. It's like, okay, not only is this difficult, but these people are really talented to make something this difficult taste this good. And they come out of it with a level of respect. That is, is not to say that they didn't have a direct hand in this.
00:58:08
Speaker
They had a hand in it, for sure. But what they realized in the process was that this is a difficult industry to make a really, really solid product at, to make a good living at, how much of a toll it can take on families and friends to be part of an industry like this. All of those things are experienced by the consumer. And that's real evangelism, because they're seeing what
00:58:36
Speaker
you know, people are sacrificing to put a good product into a glass that you get to enjoy on a Friday or Saturday evening in front of the fire, right? It is way, way more than just a liquid that's put into a bottle and marketed.
00:58:53
Speaker
I still run into it all the time, which is funny coming from the home distilling side of things. Just basically the idea of, dude, whiskey is whiskey. It either tastes good or it tastes bad. Get over it. Why are you making this all artsy-fartsy and complicated? No, dude. There really is a difference. That's an interesting one, man. Sorry to go back to a movie, like movie making.
00:59:21
Speaker
Right now, it's almost disposable. You pop on Netflix or something like that, you watch a movie. It's like, do you realize how many people went into the production of that and how many jobs are supported by that? And, you know, yes, it's art, but it's also art and science. You have computer scientists who are working on visualizations and
00:59:40
Speaker
You know, I mean, just think of, you know, to put it in your parlance, you know, think of Lord of the Rings and how much of an impact that had on the economy of New Zealand, right? And it's what, you know, several hours per movie that you're watching that may seem disposable, depending on if you did or didn't like it. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't like it. It took a lot of work to get there.
01:00:01
Speaker
And if you don't like the product, that's fine. But at least you can respect how it was made. And on the trail, we have lots of people who do not like whiskey. But they love the process of it. And they love the community of it. And they love the people that they get to meet when they're sitting around an outdoor fire pit outside of the distillery.
01:00:23
Speaker
having a cocktail and maybe it's not whiskey filled at all. It's just they're around it and they understand the type of people that work in that industry. And I think it adds a lot to it. Yeah, I think it also, it does help breed everything we've talked about so far today. It helps breed a consumer that, how do you put it? It's almost, I would rather reach for a bottle that I've never had before.
01:00:54
Speaker
than reach for a bottle that I know I love. And that extends almost to the point where I would rather reach for something that I know I probably won't like, but it's gonna teach me something about what's in that bottle that I don't know already than for something that I do like. And all of this idea helps, everything we've talked today feeds into that, right? It feeds into educating a consumer,
01:01:20
Speaker
on what goes into a bottle so they can enjoy it conceptually almost as much as they enjoy it on their taste buds, which is, I think, great for the industry as a whole because it means that consumers will try different things. I mean, it kind of, in some ways, it kills the idea of brand loyalty, blah, blah, blah, to some extent. But let's be honest, I think traditionally brand loyalty in that sort of sense was mostly like Johnny Walker
01:01:49
Speaker
You know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like there was a huge, I mean, if you're a new distiller, you don't have a huge brand loyalty, right? Like that's important too. Like, I mean, in order to keep the, you can't just cater only to the geekiest of the geeky. I mean, you were talking about like an iPhone release that just came out, like everybody's going to be like, Oh, what's the, you know, you know,
01:02:17
Speaker
60 frames per second, full HDR video. You know, you can get really geeky about it or you can be like, does it take good pictures of my kid? Does it fit well into my pocket? Does it work for me on a daily basis? And that's the goal of the association and the trail is to get people who want to be educated, give them the opportunity to go that far.
01:02:39
Speaker
But then for the secondary and tertiary people that are learning about the industry and maybe just want to have a daily drinker that they appreciate or can mix into old fashions, great, that we have that too. It doesn't break the bank. Right. But now you understand and appreciate the category.
01:02:58
Speaker
a little bit better and that's important too because it's putting food on people's tables and it's keeping these businesses afloat during hard times. It's an important thing. That's actually something too and we talked before and we don't want to
01:03:14
Speaker
dwell on what's going on too much. But do you want to talk just a little bit, because I know it's something you're passionate about, and it's something I'm passionate about too, about essentially voting with your wallet to help support people that are local, that, you know, that you believe in, and the importance of that. So yeah, I mean, look, COVID has thrown the entire world for a loop.
01:03:38
Speaker
right? I mean, we were talking a little bit about this before, but like, I don't think there is a back to normal anymore. I think there's only whatever, there's pre-COVID and post-COVID, right? But the one thing that is hard about the whiskey, and any spirits industry for that matter, is the fact that
01:03:59
Speaker
Well, one, it's especially difficult in whiskey because there's time involved, right? Like you have to be making stuff today for the future, right? So, but what's difficult about it is that if you didn't have brand recognition before this event, when everything closed down and travel stopped and everybody was forced to stay home and order everything in for delivery to their home, you know, or curbside pickup or whatever it is, however they get their product,
01:04:26
Speaker
If you didn't have brand recognition before that, you didn't really get, you're probably not benefiting during the pandemic. Everybody talks about how alcohol sales are up because alcohol is one of those recession proof kind of things where times are good people drink, if times are bad, people drink. And that's not necessarily a good thing, but in the craft space, if you didn't have brand recognition before this, then you're probably really struggling. And we're definitely seeing that in Texas. And you said voting with your wallet, I think that's important
01:04:56
Speaker
but only to the extent that you need to make sure that people get what they want and know that there's other options out there other than the big brands. I'm not saying go buy a small brand just because it's small, because if it doesn't taste good and you don't like it, don't get it. But if it is a comparable or better product than some of the national or international brands that are out there,
01:05:23
Speaker
it's really worth giving it a shot because that money is making a real impact on the ability of artisans and scientists and people who work in this industry to come together and actually create more things that you'll like in the future because you're really it's really I hate it usually when people say this but when you're voting with your with your wallet now you're investing in good whiskey in the future because it takes that much time for it to come back and yeah
01:05:52
Speaker
And that's what we want people to do on the trail is invest in the distilleries that are making amazing things now because you want this to be generational. You want to see this grow, I promise you.
01:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you really do. And just to be clear, guys, we're not talking specifically about Texas here. I'm talking about wherever you happen to be. If you, you know, especially like somewhere like New Zealand, but we're so far removed from everywhere, if there is a distillery, a small distillery or whatever, a small freaking cake shop, I don't really care what it is. But if there's something that you believe in and something that you enjoy,
01:06:27
Speaker
Those are the people that need your patronage right now because you know Going back to the Johnny Walker thing. Johnny Walker doesn't need your money right now to Not survive sure they might have to lay a few people off or whatever But I'm pretty freaking sure that whatever happens there's gonna be a Johnny Walker brand in five years time Yeah after this but you're a little local distillery that you know just sunk a whole lot of money into whatever it happens to be getting another container of barrels or something and then you
01:06:57
Speaker
Yeah, you get the idea, guys. So yeah, sorry, I know everyone's here. Don't be sorry. That's exactly what we want people to do. We're finally, we finally are allowed to open up distillery tasting rooms again in Texas. Most counties, some counties are still so closed. So we are heavily encouraging anybody, especially now, when we may not see a lot of the international travel like we did last year with you and others, but like,
01:07:24
Speaker
If you're in the United States, you want to take a road trip, it's worth coming and driving around Texas and visiting some distilleries because it's a safe way to do it. There's plenty of hand sanitizer. These guys have been making it like crazy. So they're doing things safely, intelligently. They have protocols in place and they're making a product that is just, in my opinion, is just fantastic. So it's worth the time. I can 100% vouch for
01:07:55
Speaker
Texas whiskey as a whole. If you are at war into whiskey in any way, shape or form, if you like any whiskey, you're going to find something in Texas that
01:08:04
Speaker
vibes with you. Whether it be conceptual, whether it be geeky, whether it be process driven, whether it be marketing and you know what the freaking bottle looks like, whether it's style driven, whatever it is that you're into in terms of whiskey, you're going to find something coming out of Texas that is very very attractive to you. All right dude, I think we're getting close to wrapping up but I and
01:08:31
Speaker
I want to pose a question to you that is really weighted and tricky because I know the amount of work that you and everyone else has put into getting this thing off the ground and getting it moving in Texas.
01:08:47
Speaker
If there are people out there that are seeing a lack of this kind of unification or the team of rivals, either from the industry side, industry facing, or from the Texas Whiskey Association side, or from the Texas Whiskey Trail side, customer facing, practically speaking, how can people go about even starting to think about getting something like this off the ground?
01:09:16
Speaker
It just has to be such a huge daunting, but yeah, man, it's a scary proposition, right? Like how the hell do you get started? That's a really, you're right. It is a heavy question.
Building a Whiskey Community
01:09:29
Speaker
Look, I got it started by having lots of conversations with people in a fair way, right? And I think, and it's not easy. It took almost six years before people were ready to,
01:09:45
Speaker
one, entertain that conversation in a real way, and two, take steps to form something that could turn that conversation into reality. So, you know, the- And let's be fair too. You're talking about new distilleries here. Yeah. Like the oldest, the oldest distillery in Texas would have been what, four or five years old at that stage? About, at that time it was about six years old. Yeah. Yeah. It's an infant industry. Yeah. And people are worried about
01:10:16
Speaker
where the next, where the money comes from for the next order of. Yeah. These are distilleries that were mostly selling hats and t-shirts to make money, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Working against you. Yeah. In retrospect, I might've started a little bit too early. But very, but very truly, like, I think there's, there's value to being
01:10:45
Speaker
there's value to sticking to your guns of truth, right? There's value in trying to get people to understand that it's not all about, it's not a, what do you call it, a zero sum game.
01:11:01
Speaker
Right? To get people to understand that there is a tide that can lift everybody, and that cooperation is good, and consolidation, like, consolidation behind principles, if not necessarily finances, is what you want. You want people to understand that there are some principles that you can get behind.
01:11:21
Speaker
And that's true in democracy. That's true if you have an HOA, like a homeowners association. It doesn't matter. You got to make sure people understand that there's some basic principles that we can agree on. And if you can get it down to that level, then people start coming together and then you start building from there. But you can't start with the trail idea because it's a fun idea and say, let's build a trail. You've got to start with what is the base thing that everybody agrees with.
01:11:49
Speaker
and then build up from that point. And treat people with respect.
01:11:58
Speaker
Tell people what you mean and understand and listen to them and understand that they have their own needs. They have their own financial requirements and you're going to have to meet them where they are and then push them into the next phase of what this could be. But it's a gradual process. It just takes time and it takes a lot of effort.
01:12:20
Speaker
It's a lot like whiskey. Good things take time, man. Yeah. So you find a kernel of, of truths, a base level of principles that is kind of the, the hill that, that everyone's willing to die on in terms of what you want to stand for and then build it from there. That makes a lot of sense. It really does because let's face it. You do need a lot of trust and um,
01:12:48
Speaker
common ground to be able to even start having these sorts of conversations, right? So if you form that first and show that you are, your intentions are pure. Yeah. Good marketing stem, good marketing and good execution stems out of a base, out of a baseline understanding that nobody wants to go less than, right? Like, I mean, that's put it in more terms, but necessarily, but you have your lines and you don't want anything to get behind those lines.
01:13:17
Speaker
And you may have things that go out in front and try to gain ground, but you've got to secure your lines first, right? And I think that's, you know, that's what this standard here is, the Certified Texas Whiskey Standards. That's the baseline of, you know, we don't want to retreat from the concept that Texas whiskey should be made in Texas. Right? I don't know, man. That's a pretty out there concept. Yeah.
01:13:46
Speaker
But you can build from there and new things will come out of it and a new industry could form out of it. But the great thing is that the consumers, the people, everybody who wants to be involved with it, they have a place if they want to be a part of it. You just got to agree on the basics and then you can move from there. And that's just a human thing that has nothing to do with whiskey. Just meet them where they are, understand the baseline thing, and then you can have a conversation.
01:14:13
Speaker
That's beautiful, man. There's not a lot of that happening in the world right now. That's a skill and a art and a science that, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Enough of that. It's hard and I do think a lot of people can learn from whiskey is that there's basic things. I mean, you're talking about grains, right? There's basic things that you can make something amazing out of.
01:14:41
Speaker
So if you can apply that to life and you can say, Hey, here's some base level things that I'm going to agree on with you and we're not going to go below that in the level of discourse, then we can build something up from there. That's amazing. That's a good thing for everybody right now. Yeah, that really is. That is a perfect place to leave this. Thank you so much, Spencer. I thoroughly appreciate you, man. And I appreciate your time too. So yeah.
01:15:06
Speaker
Cheers, man. We gotta get you down here and we gotta get you some good some good whiskey and I can't wait to see you again. Yeah.
01:15:18
Speaker
It is corny to say family, but it really does feel like a family in Texas on every level. Like there's the, you know, the, the family hospitality sort of stuff that's just amazing there, but, but the industry as a whole and the consumers as a whole too, it just, I don't know, it vibes with me, man. I can't wait. I, I, I feel for you guys not being able to have that access to
01:15:41
Speaker
for want of a better word, tourists, I guess. And you had so much steam and so much momentum built up that it really is quite tragic. But I'm sure it'll be. We're going to keep plowing through. And we're doing some really fun things with the trail. So we're going to keep it going. And as soon as, like I said, today I feel like everybody can safely do things. But as soon as you all feel safe,
01:16:06
Speaker
Come and see us. I guarantee you every distillery will have a smiling face, even if it's under a mask to see you. 100%. All right. Thanks, Pinsa. I appreciate it, man. All right. Thank you.