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72. Iconic Solos - Part 1
40 Plays6 months ago
The Solo. A single performer showing off his/her musical talent and skill. Adding an interesting, alternative part to a song’s structure and, potentially, giving the audience a passage of music unlike what the rest of the song entailed.
Whether it’s a short-but-sweet 8 bars or an extended showcase that takes the listener on a long journey, a lot can be said in a short space of time with a talented human operating their instrument at the highest level.
In these new topical discussion episodes, we take a look at some of Rock ‘N’ Roll’s most iconic virtuosic moments and discuss what makes them so good, how significant they were and what legacy they left.
In this episode:
- Sultans Of Swing (Mark Knopfler) - Alchemy: Dire Straits Live - Dire Straits (1984)
- Heartbreaker (Jimmy Page) - Led Zeppelin II - Led Zeppelin (1969)
- The End (Ringo Starr) - Abbey Road - The Beatles (1969)
Episode Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7elrTXqh3w0CqQ8qXDtZVh?si=3c9d085d1d4d48e3
LONG LIVE ROCK ‘N’ ROLL
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Transcript
Introduction to Iconic Solos
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Long Live Rock and Roll Podcast. The solo, a single performer showing off his or her musical talent and skill, adding an interesting alternative part to a song's structure and potentially giving the audience a passage of music unlike what the rest of the song entailed.
00:00:30
Speaker
Whether it's a short but sweet eight bars or an extended showcase that takes the listener on a long journey, a lot can be said in a short space of time with a talented human operating their instrument at the highest level. Joining me to discuss solos is my co-host,
Personal Favorites and Perspectives
00:00:45
Speaker
Mr. Felipe Amorim. How are you doing, man? Great. Hope everyone's okay. How are you doing? Good. Yeah, I'm all right. Thank you. Not bad. Not bad. I'm excited for today because it's the essentially the start of a new
00:00:58
Speaker
topical discussion point that we're doing, isn't it? We're going to talk through some iconic solos. And now the little asterisk that comes with this is that they may be iconic to us. So we really like them. Exactly. That's what we're going to do with these. It's almost a bit like our covers versus originals episode. We're going to take to what I think generally would be considered iconic guitar solos, or actually not even necessarily guitar.
00:01:22
Speaker
We're gonna take two iconic solos that everyone knows, everyone knows what they sound like, everyone knows how they go. And then we'll probably chuck in one or two more, maybe some off the radar ones or some of our personal favorites. But yeah, looking forward to it. So should we get stuck in? Yeah, what do you wanna do first? Which one? Well, I actually wanna make a disclaimer from the beginning. So we're talking about like, especially guitar solos, right? You have a drummer and a bassist discussing guitar solos here.
00:01:50
Speaker
Oh, look at this rhythm section. They think they're so good.
What Defines a Solo?
00:01:55
Speaker
What I want to say is,
00:02:01
Speaker
I personally have no intention of debating which is the most technical, the most elaborate or even the most relevant guitar solo in history or the top 10 guitar solos. I think what we're doing here, we're picking some stuff that we like listening to and like our favorite solos. So, because that's the one thing I'm not quite keen to do is when you see people like,
00:02:28
Speaker
you know, top 10 albums of all time. No one is going to agree with that. I'd rather that journalists who do that, my favorite top 10, like my top 10 albums of all time. It tells me more about you. Yeah, exactly. With the solos, it's a great point because there'll be, everyone will have a different favorite solo, but that's why we've gone with the title Iconic, because there are Iconic solos straight off the top. You think Freebird, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child of Mine,
00:02:54
Speaker
Just these ones, and these are the ones that we're going to discuss because they are important to rock and rock music. But as well, why can't we throw in some of our favorites as well? Because that tells the audience, that tells you guys about us as musicians and as fans. But Domoy, you'll get your fix of standard rock guitar solos. Yeah, we also want people to tell us which solos they want us to talk about.
Guitar Solos Leading the Charge
00:03:16
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, excellent. So, disclaimer done. What one do you want to kick off with?
00:03:21
Speaker
Well, there's an interesting thing about the whole concept of solo, right? Yeah. Solo, the word, means on your own, isn't it? That solo means alone. It's just you. Yeah. Which is not entirely true in music.
00:03:36
Speaker
A soloist is someone who is taking the lead on that specific part of the song and playing the main melodic line of that specific part of the song. Normally the singer is doing that for most of the song and then when the singer stops singing and there's an instrumental bit, you might have a guitar solo, piano solo, keyboards or even drums.
00:03:59
Speaker
drum solo is designed to give the band time to go and grab a drink really. So when you have the solo with a band, there's a completely different thing than a musician playing on their own, which at least in one of the examples we're going to give today actually happens.
The Significance of 'Heartbreaker'
00:04:19
Speaker
I agree with most of what you said. The only thing I'd say I disagree with is that
00:04:27
Speaker
You said that if a guitar solo comes, it takes over the melodic passage that a single would normally have. But do you not feel that a solo is rather much, it is actually a lot more showing off and showing what talent you have.
00:04:42
Speaker
There's a lot of that, yeah. Compared to just taking over the singer's job for eight months. Exactly, yeah, but it makes sense. There's a lot of showing off and displaying your skills to the audience or whatever. Also, it can be the part of the song you do something that is impressive and also is the part of a song that you can do something that's completely different
00:05:03
Speaker
unexpected because no one knows how someone is going to do a solo. Guys like David Gilmer from Pink Floyd and Slash from Guns N' Roses, they actually write solos that belong to the song. They're part of the composition. And Slash was really clear about this in many interviews that he didn't never wanted a solo to be like a show off bit of song. He wanted it to be part of the composition.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, it makes sense because the way he solos is like it's just it is obviously the guitar gets all the attention when he's doing it but it's it's a melody he doesn't improvise much and some of his solos is a proper composition, but yeah.
00:05:44
Speaker
I think there's like cases where the solo is designed for the guitarist to pretty much play everything they can do in a few bars. But I think there's a cool concept of soloing with a band and literally solo on your own. Any instrument can play on their own, you can stop the whole band
00:06:06
Speaker
And then you have a bass solo, drum solo, guitar solo without any backing instruments. Or you can solo on top of the groove and the chords. And those are different concepts. I think it's different to play on the run and play with the band. And I'm saying this because we actually don't discuss two solos that have these two contexts. Let's start with the one that goes more for the solo branch, right? So the first song we're going to do today
00:06:33
Speaker
is Led Zeppelin's Heartbreaker from Led Zeppelin 2. And I'm actually in a fortunate position today of having the vinyls for every one of the songs we're doing. So I'm thinking about showing off.
00:06:46
Speaker
There you go. So yeah, from Led Zeppelin 2. Do you know what? I don't think it's often we have albums. I know the last few we've done have actually had the albums. Yeah, and I've got the album. I've got all of the albums. I just never get to show them. So now that we're doing a bunch of episodes where I have them, we've got to do it. I'm really jealous of your vinyl collection, man. You've got so many good records. So we start off with Heartbreaker from Led Zeppelin 2 by the band Led Zeppelin 1969 and the guitarist is Jimmy Page. Kick us off.
00:07:15
Speaker
Well, Jimmy Page, he was in an interesting position with the band. I think he's the one who could claim he had the right to have a whole minute and a song on his own. Jimmy Page was the band leader, the producer, the guy who put the money into the project from the beginning. He was responsible for Led Zeppelin's journey to success. Really, everyone in the band had a big share of that responsibility, of course, and merit for that.
00:07:45
Speaker
but he was the leader of the band and pretty much all the way to the end and he had like a long experience as a session musician, studio musician, recording for different artists, some big names. And
00:08:02
Speaker
And he knew exactly what a song needed. So if he was working for someone as a session musician, he wouldn't play that solo. So Jimmy Page knew how to serve a song, you know, play what a song needed. But in that song, well, after the success of the first album, which I believe went number one, American, the UK, maybe. Okay. Yeah. I think it went America. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure. So you were internationally famous at that point. You know how good you are.
00:08:32
Speaker
you know, just play a solo, play the solo you want to play. I think that solo, it seems saying, this is me as a guitar player, regardless of how good the band is or how good the band makes me sound. This is me on my own. And that's what I'm saying. That's a solo in the true sense of the word. There's no one playing with him when he takes a solo. And it's a beautiful thing in terms of arrangement because a solo connects to completely different sections of the song.
Jimmy Page's Solo Analysis
00:09:00
Speaker
you know, so it goes into a complete different groove and it goes back to the verse at the end, but the way he builds that structure of the song is like, okay, we've played, we're told a story to this point, the band stops, I'm gonna do my thing, and I'm gonna start a really heavy, fast riff that is gonna lead into an explosive ending for a song. And I think the solo, regardless of what it plays,
00:09:26
Speaker
uh the the way the song was structured is really really clever and allowed him the the right amount of time in the right part of the song to do what he did and i believe he did an amazing job on that so i think it's quite impressive it's 1969 you gotta consider that before all the shredding stuff that we've heard from the 80s up to this day uh before um
00:09:50
Speaker
Richard Blackmore was in the spotlight with Deep Purple, and a lot of impressive guitar playing hasn't happened up to this point. Yes, good point. Yeah, everything you said is great. I think the one part I agree with you at, well, I agree with everything you've said, but the part I agree with the most is that this solo serves as the centerpiece of the song, doesn't it? It feels like the song builds up to that moment.
00:10:19
Speaker
has its moment with the solo and then afterwards we just kind of get the outro which is fine you know the outro doesn't need to be as epic as the solo but i feel like it really does serve as the centerpiece the song builds to this moment would you agree yeah yeah yeah yeah it's interesting yeah it's almost like he made that solo the the most important part of the song and and if you if you don't know the song you're listening to it for the first time you can't see that coming
00:10:45
Speaker
We've got, as usual, listeners and viewers, the playlist for this episode is in the show notes below. So if you're on YouTube, read the description. If you're on Apple or Spotify or any other podcast platform, just go to the show notes, click the link and you'll go to the place that will have all these songs in plus a few extras that we stick in. If we mention it, it will be in the playlist. So go and have a listen to the songs so you know exactly what we're talking about.
00:11:08
Speaker
But yeah, it's a very, and as you mentioned, the one thing I want to pick up on what you said is that it's 1969. This is a very much a pioneering solo. You've got intricate skills in the fast runs, the bends he does, hammer offs and pull ons. So for non-guitarists, a hammer on is where you, I think I've done this before, I'll just get the guitar. The guitar's out of tune, so don't bank on this. The hammer on is where you, I know, is where you play a note and then you hammer it on after.
00:11:39
Speaker
You play the note and then you hammer it on. Yeah, basically the second note is not being played by the right hand. You're not strumming the second note. And the same goes with this other technique called the pull off. So you play the note and then you pull it off like that. So for viewers, you can see it, listeners, you'll have to listen. But yeah, that's the premise of those. And these things, you know, to the level he was doing them weren't very
00:12:05
Speaker
I'd probably say the word popular at the time. They weren't popular because these were part of solos. They were not the highlight of solos. It's like he emphasized those techniques. He made them more clear. It's in your face. Also, no one else is playing at the moment.
00:12:21
Speaker
I think you've also got the massive blues influence in the solo, haven't you? I mean even just at the end of his, it's hard because there's two sections of the solo, isn't there? There's the solo solo and then there's the band solo where they join in after, but the part between the solo solo and the band solo, he does that little
00:12:41
Speaker
classic blues lick, he ends the solo, it's like that he shows his blues roots right at the end of it. So there's an interesting thing because all the, all those, there's two techniques you've mentioned.
00:12:53
Speaker
it means you can play you can get a sound out of the guitar without using the the hand that holds the plectrum so it could be the in his case right hand is the right hand of the guitar player so he's only playing on the fretboard for for a good bit of that solo so it's only the left hand doing the job and he would make that clear live he would hold the guitar above his head and play with left hand
00:13:16
Speaker
So you can see that his right hand is just holding the guitar and he's playing with one hand. Obviously that's visually quite impressive. It has been done a million times by loads of guitar players, but we've got to consider that in 1969. That's quite impressive. And so basically when we're talking about the most technical elements of it and then a bluesy ending, he's combining
00:13:41
Speaker
like complex skills with the simplicity of the blues and I love that. I'm going to take what you said just to a sort of a different level where the techniques he's playing require good technique, rigidity, solid technical precision.
00:14:03
Speaker
The blue stuff is way more improvised, off the cuff, a bit different. You don't have to commit to it, do you know what I mean? Yeah, and also you're bending the strings, how much do you do of that? How much bending do you do?
00:14:19
Speaker
And for how long is that note going to last for? The interpretation of those phrases, it's really much more about feeling than technique. Don't get me wrong, it's not technically easy to do any of that. But the thing is, I think there's a lot of your personality as a musician when you're playing anything bluesy, because then you have to make it your own.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I think there's a lot of the bluesy stuff and, as I said, more technical things. Also, some of the live versions of that solo, there's classical music and there's country as well. A little bit, if you listen to How the West Was Won, which is the 1972 album, actually not released at the time, was released later on. He plays some country licks.
00:15:08
Speaker
really cool and in our opinion it's this i think you and me agree we we think it's the best Zeppelin album the live ones isn't it oh yeah so underrated no one goes on i mean song remains the same is amazing but how the west was won is them at their absolute peak that's another episode um
00:15:26
Speaker
You mentioned about how important it was for the time, 1969, because we've got this just sort of contextually to summarise it. You've got the blues boom happening and the British invasion with the American blues artists coming over to Britain and touring and sort of bringing over some of the blues, John Mayall and his blue breakers. This is all going on the end of the 50s into the 60s. And as the 60s progress, we see a lot more of a blues rock influence and rock gets heavier and harder.
00:15:52
Speaker
And then in 69, you've got Zeppelin with their first couple of albums, which in a sense pioneered what we call hard rock. So this is a key moment, as you said, because the second Led Zeppelin album in 1969, hard rock is blooming and ready to go. And we're getting the example of it here. So a direct quote, I think I got the idea of tapping, watching Jimmy Page do his Heartbreaker solo back in 71, Eddie Van Halen.
00:16:18
Speaker
So Van Halen directly has said, the Heartbreaker solo from Jimmy Page, this is what got me doing tapping.
Mark Knopfler's Live Performance
00:16:24
Speaker
And for listeners, it will be in the playlist. I'm just gonna add it right now is Eruption. So that was Eddie Van Halen talking about his guitar track Eruption, which we all know. I mean, that's definitely gonna be on this episode one day, isn't it? On the iconic solos. But that is him saying that, yeah, my influence for Eruption, Jimmy Page on Heartbreaker. So that's a massive point on that as well. That's literally a direct,
00:16:48
Speaker
inspiration. But I was actually on Reddit doing some research. That's a place where you can actually, you know, you can get stuck there for hours. Well, I love it because I find Reddit, Instagram and Facebook, I tend to not generally like the people on there. They're very, what's the word?
00:17:12
Speaker
I've forgotten the word judgmental. People aren't willing to have a discussion. Some of the social media stuff seems to be designed for people to clash instead of debating. And I find that with Facebook and Instagram, but with Reddit, you're often able to have a much nicer debate. But anyway, someone posted on the Led Zeppelin subreddit about the Heartbreaker solo saying, how hard is it to play?
00:17:39
Speaker
And I remember reading one of the comments and someone said, it's not hard to play technically, but you won't sound like Jimmy because Jimmy is his own sound. And one of the comments that actually was praising the solo, if you can believe it, had the words sloppy and emotional. But they're right. And this is the next part I want to talk about, about this solo.
00:18:02
Speaker
that there's even, the initial bends he does when he does it. That's unagreeable. That's dissonant. That's not very nice to the ear. From two minutes 15 to two minutes 30, he's playing some fast stuff, but he's not hitting all the notes. There are mistakes. No, some of the notes. There are some bum notes. He's missing some of the notes. But then he does, obviously the rest of the song is lovely. And even that part is great because it's authentic.
00:18:31
Speaker
that is Jimmy Page putting himself into his solo. Robert Plant said a few times that they would always go for the take with
00:18:44
Speaker
with the right feeling, the right feel for the album, not the take that was best executed. And that's a really, really big difference. And I'm pretty sure he did loads of takes for that. So why is he picking? I'm pretty sure he did. The album has got so many overdubs and is being recorded in different studios across America because they were touring. We've got to consider that. That was our second. For anyone who's a fan of Led Zepp 2, this was the second episode we ever did, or the third one. So yeah, go back and check it out right at the beginning.
00:19:13
Speaker
But yeah, no, good point. Anything else you want to talk about regarding this, Soto? I think when people discuss the... When they say, yeah, it's sloppy and some of the notes are not quite there. I've heard guys who can play better kind of stuff. Yeah, 1969, this man and his last poll.
00:19:35
Speaker
playing the guitar on its own for about one minute, I would say. Yeah. I was gonna say it's almost like the song is more of the song is a solo. It's groundbreaking. It's like it hasn't been done in that way before. So yeah, that's what I have. The only other part I want to add about this solo is that how great he is on his own, how brilliant pages when he does his thing, but then it maintains the same level of quality when the band come in.
00:20:05
Speaker
don't you think, where they come in with their rhythm, he hangs on some chord bends to give the space to the rhythm section to come back in and prepare and then when they're in he just goes off on it again and it's brilliant. It really prepares for the riff that comes after and the groove and it carries on soloing on top of that.
00:20:33
Speaker
And the fact that it's being recorded from different days in different cities, it makes it even more impressive that it has such a solid sequence of ideas. I really, really like it.
00:20:48
Speaker
We actually played this song, didn't we, when we played with Jack Hutchinson. It was really fun to play because, I mean, it's a jam sort of song. They just let the guitarist go off. Yeah. You let the guitarist go off and do that thing. And Jack was always a good soloist, so it was a great team of the ideas he came up with. But although we've got to do that with a less post, it's one of those songs and the sound of it is so... Yeah, you can't do it with a flying V. But yeah, the only... Yeah, one other thing is that the heart and part, how the West was won,
00:21:18
Speaker
that version of it. Did you notice he plays a bit of Bach? Yeah. I thought the funny thing is that you kind of read sloppy and emotional and as amazing as the solo is, it is sloppy in places. And then when he tries to play Bach, you're like, right, now the word sloppy comes out because if there's one thing about classical music and Bach, it's not sloppy. So when you've got a blues musician trying to play Bach's music, you're like, okay, now I know why you stuck to the blues and rock.
00:21:46
Speaker
which is nothing but it's super cool though although it does show that his influences were not only the predictable influences for rock musicians he was into classical music and in country and then there's a lot of stuff there and I think he managed to quote most of his influences in one solo which is really cool
00:22:13
Speaker
And then they all do it, don't they? They're doing Dazed and Confused. They've got 20 minutes to do that, haven't they? The live versions. So everyone can get their influence in. But anyway, we need to do another Zeppelin album soon. I haven't listened to Zeppelin in a while, you know. I have this thing where I kind of go through a cycle of bands. Like I love Frank Zappa, but I could easily go six months without listening to him. Cause it's quite in your face music. And it's the same with Zeppelin. I've been quite into metal the last few months and Zeppelin haven't really had a look in. So yeah, we'll have to do another one soon. Onto the next solo. So actually I chose the Heartbreaker one.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. And this is the solo you chose. This is Sultans of Swing from the album Alchemy Dire Straits Live by Dire Straits from 1984. You've got the album. Yep. I said this is the one, I've got all the albums for this episode, which is one showing off. I honestly thought you had the studio version of it. No, the live one as well. It's a double vine, isn't it?
00:23:05
Speaker
It is yeah it's gorgeous and it's a great album as well. We did a Dire Straits episode before. Yeah we did Brothers in Arms. I'd say immediately just because I haven't listened to their expansive work they're sort of nowhere near my favorite band but the Brothers in Arms album I thought was really good but the live album wow that's another level that is a band it's almost like Peter Frampton one where the whole band is on and then you're giving really good music to the audience
00:23:31
Speaker
Anyway, this isn't an album review, this is a solo review. We have to give us a chance, listeners and viewers, this is our first time doing solos, so we'll have to, we'll try and rein it in how much we love the songs. But yeah, I'll kick off with this one then, yeah? Salton's a swing. Wow.
00:23:48
Speaker
Put it that way. Wow. Really, really amazing solo. The first thing is there's three, isn't there? There's like three solos. Yeah. One at the same time. I think I said to you, listen, listen from like four and a half minutes. There's one right at the beginning of the song. There's one about three minutes in, which is way shorter. And then there's one about four minutes, 45, I think it starts. But then then that goes to the end of the song.
00:24:10
Speaker
And they're all brilliant. They're all amazing. And what I loved about the first one, as in the solo right at the start of the song, same thing as Jimmy Page. There's fuck ups. There's bum notes, but it doesn't stop the... He was recording live with the band. That's another level. Yeah, it's live, but it doesn't stop the momentum of the song and the solo. And that goes more so with the third solo, which is the one we're going to talk about.
00:24:38
Speaker
Now, what I loved about this is how in the first sort of 30 seconds of it, you go through such a dramatic change of styles, techniques. Yeah, I'd say styles and techniques just in the first 30 seconds. But the solo never feels like it's okay, he's trying to do something like this now. All right, now he's trying to do this. Each section goes beautifully one into the other.
00:25:07
Speaker
just I did some timestamps because I found it amazing so he got solo two kicks off at 4 45 at four minutes 50 the incredible speed he does with without a plectrum by the way is that that's all finger picked isn't it amazing and I think Mark Knopfel and Jeff Beck were the my favorite uh uh
00:25:27
Speaker
guitarist in that sense, the ones who don't play with a black drum and get their own unique sound. Through the finger picking, yeah. Five minutes and two seconds you've got the bends, I can't remember how exactly the bends, then five seconds after, I love it man, he does this sort of staccato thing, where he goes
00:25:49
Speaker
But it just, it kind of, it comes out of nowhere and it takes you by surprise. And when you first, yeah, well, and then after that five minutes, 20, he's got, he does blues for a bit for about 10 seconds and then five minutes, 28, five minutes, 28, he goes full country. Just, but, but all of these elements, I've just pinpointed one occasion where I've noticed they were there, but all of them, speed, bends, staccato, blues, and country, they all come back and forth.
00:26:15
Speaker
It'll be blues, country, speed, speed, staccato, staccato, country, blues, bends, you know, it just, you'll mess it up and just go everywhere and mess it up as in mix it up and take the song everywhere. But it flows from passage to passage and from little five seconds here, five seconds there, the transition between them is amazing, just amazing.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think it has a natural kind of flow from the beginning to the end. It's interesting to think about how the solo evolved from the original one. And it's an interesting thing because they said there's loads of solos in the song.
00:26:52
Speaker
I see this song basically as a conversation between vocals and guitar because throughout the whole song he would sing a line and then play a short phrase before the next line comes in. So is that a solo or is that just a lick of phrase? I'd call it a lick.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah. But basically, it feels to me that Mark Knopfler is preparing you for his solo from the beginning. It's like the guitar wants to speak louder than everything else. It's caged. It's waiting to get out. It's like, yeah, it's there. I want to do something more about it. Wait a minute. Let me sing. And it keeps going. And at the studio version at the end, the most iconic part of this solo is a really fast phrase. It plays right at the end when the song is about to start fading out.
00:27:36
Speaker
And what I love about this live version is that he
00:27:43
Speaker
He's preparing for that part. Everyone who's listened to the album went to the gig. They were probably thinking, here we go. He's going to play that phrase. He's going to play that phrase. He doesn't go for it. And it takes a song somewhere else. And I think, whoa, wait a minute. He's going to do it at some point. And he keeps going to complete different unpredictable directions. And at the very end, when that phrase comes in, it's like a relief. It's like, oh my god, I've been waiting for this.
00:28:10
Speaker
Even though I've been waiting for this, I enjoyed everything that happened whilst I was waiting for it. And it's so good, it's so good. And yeah, he's just builds up and up and I think- That's the great part. Yeah. And it's right at the end of the studio version of it. He plays that phrase, which it's almost like a loop. He changes the notes, but he sings rhythm. And then he goes on and on into like, he goes on and on and the song is fading out and that's it.
00:28:38
Speaker
I was going to say that you mentioned repeating sections and I think that's something he does so well in this solo because everything you hear you've heard before in terms of the context of the song
00:28:54
Speaker
The part that really wowed me was the, at six minutes they start slowing down, or not slowing down, but the dynamics come way back that way down. The guitar cuts out as he stops playing for a bit. And for about 30 seconds, he just leaves it. He just leaves the crowd to chant and clap and the rhythm section to sort of build, you know, establish a sort of base. Then at six minutes, 56, you've got those soft, sweet melodies coming back in. He's just messing around a bit before, but then he establishes them.
00:29:23
Speaker
Then from about seven minutes 30 onwards, he just plays the same passage again and again, but he speeds it up a little bit every time. And then you have the band kind of following that thing. Yeah, building up getting higher and higher and bigger and bigger and louder and louder. And then about, I think I've got eight minutes 20 here, molds them, hits them both together and he's there. And then it goes off again on another solo, just like at the start.
00:29:52
Speaker
I think you and me know this because we emphasized when we were playing, often we played in trios. We played a few trios together, didn't we? And we knew how important it was, us doing our jobs, that if the guitarist is soloing, we've got to compliment it. We can't just be there playing the chords because it's just so easy and you're not really doing anything. If we see the guitarist start putting more energy in or playing faster, we'll play a bit harder and faster.
00:30:21
Speaker
if he's playing a certain section that sort of brings it down a bit, will back off a bit. And in this song as well, the rhythm section, tight, organised, established, knew their jobs before doing it. Perhaps off to Terry Williams, who was the drummer who joined the band not long before the recording of this album.
00:30:42
Speaker
Really? You think this rhythm section playing together, you think they've been playing together for you? I don't know if the album was done in the beginning of a tour or in the middle of a tour or whatever, but they've probably played quite a few nights together, but that's the first album with this drummer. But this is what I'm saying, it feels like years. Complete different drummer.
00:31:00
Speaker
from the one that did the first album that's very jazzy. He's a rock drummer, he hits really hard and then he took the song into a different direction. So what I find really nice about the way the band interacts with the guitar on this one is like you have Mark Knopfler as the leader
00:31:18
Speaker
playing a melody because it's really melodic so sometimes you would play really fast and play all the country licks and shred a little bit let's put it like that then when he's playing the most melodic bits the band would just follow what i think is completely different if compared to heartbreak or you have a whole section of just guitar in this case the band is essential to the final result of this solo because they go up and down
00:31:45
Speaker
and they get busier or quieter according to whatever the guitarist is doing. So it's, and if you watch the video, the lights are also amazing. Like the whole show is prepared for that moment to be really special. And I think they did a phenomenal job really.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think there's a few parts here, which just shows... I mean, Mark Knopfler was a hugely well-renowned guitarist for his... But everything he's known for is shown off in this solo. His expressive phrasing. When he's playing this song and he's got all those melodies, it's like the guitar's singing, isn't it? It's like he is just singing to you. The melodies are so beautiful.
00:32:29
Speaker
You've got the fingerstyle technique, as you said before, where just this intricate, it's almost country style, isn't it? It is country style. Well, a lot. Fingerpicking, yeah. The fingerstyle being utilised amongst many other techniques as well. But on top of all that, you've got the technicality of his fingerstyle, you've got the beautiful, you know, soulfulness of the melodies, but then the improvisers as well.
00:32:59
Speaker
It's like I feel like there's a section where he's like, I've done this melody before, I'm going to start, I'm going to do four bars of this and then four bars of something else. And you can just hear it when he starts going like just those sections where you can, you know, he's not really following a path, he's just improvising it. And I think those three aspects are key to this solo, the expressive phrasing, the fingerstyle technique and his improvisational
00:33:22
Speaker
flair. That makes this solo. And the song ends up being twice as long as the album version. Are you complaining?
Ringo Starr's Unique Drum Solo
00:33:30
Speaker
It doesn't get boring. That's why I picked this one. I'll tell you a story about that because I was in doubt about this one and Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd.
00:33:41
Speaker
which we're going to cover at some point. I guess we know what's coming next, then. Yeah, I was kind of in doubt. I'm going to choose one of those solos. And when I was thinking about it, I was getting off the train on the underground in Hammersmith, where this album was recorded. So I was like, maybe, maybe the gods are giving me a sign. What venue was it in Hammersmith?
00:34:08
Speaker
Um, it's, uh, the Apollo is the Apollo, isn't it? I think so. Yeah. But yeah, man, that's so appropriate. Like, you know what? I got to do it. Cause it's got a, the venue's got a different name now. Uh, it's, uh,
00:34:23
Speaker
So yeah, it's live at the Hammersmith Odeon. That's what it was in 84. Maybe that's the Hammersmith Apollo now. I'm not sure. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. So anyway, so that venue, so getting off the train, I looked at Hammersmith sign and said, all right, that's it. Now, if you were getting off at Battersea, then maybe that's the Pink Floyd one. Anyway, yeah, we'll get to come to move on. Don't you guys worry.
00:34:51
Speaker
Excellent, right so now this brings us to the final song we're going to do and this is the one that we're going to try and make a little less obvious, a little less what everyone would deem iconic and a bit more of why we think it should be.
00:35:03
Speaker
Having said all that, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and question Felipe about his decision on this one. It's very interesting. Was I biased or not? A little bit, we'll see. So the third and final track for this episode is The End from Abbey Road by The Beatles and again 1969. Drummer, obviously, Ringo Starr. So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate straight away and ask you as a drummer, and yeah, ask you, A, why is this a solo and not like a drum fill?
00:35:34
Speaker
And yeah, and I think that's the main question to play Devil's Advocate for. Why do you consider this a solo? Why is it not just a passage, a few bars and drums? It is a solo because, well, to start with, again, remember, solo is playing on your own. The whole band stops for this.
00:35:51
Speaker
And so basically you have the three songs there, Golden's Lumber's, Carry That Weight and The End, which is the last, I'll say it's one long piece divided in three parts, but the last three songs that the Beatles recorded as a band. The last song of Abbey Road is Her Majesty, which is just a bit of a joke. The Pomegranate wrote 17 second song.
00:36:15
Speaker
on acoustic guitar only. So that's the last thing the Beatles recorded together as a band and it features John, George and Paul playing guitar solos like exchanging guitar solos. So basically I think it was them trying to reference the beginnings of the band when the three of them were playing guitar in the band.
00:36:38
Speaker
and and they would take solos and you know play long solos live and stuff they do that but at the beginning just before those solos they they give Ringo his time to shine you know so like you've got to play those eight bars on your own
00:36:53
Speaker
and it's a solo because one he's playing only on his own and second a drum fill normally would last for a bar if so most drum fills are short one beat two beats which is like half of a bar so you use drum fills to connect parts of a song yeah that's what this one specifically there's a connect part of the of the the same song but
00:37:18
Speaker
It's too long for me because it's just a drum fill. And then you have the rhythmic ostinato, which is this one part in the repeat itself. In that case, it's the bass drum, the kick drum is playing. It's like keeping time throughout the whole solo. And he plays the other drums on top of it with loads of space and dynamics. That's why it's great about it. Space like he would play just that kick drum for a bar. And at the end of that bar,
00:37:43
Speaker
There's something coming on the floor, Tom, or one of the toms. So it's playing phrases using space. It lets you breathe. And most of those phrases start in kind of unpredictable parts of the bar. It's not a solo that you would naturally just go and play just like Ringo.
00:37:59
Speaker
And I've sent you a link. I'm pretty sure you're going to put it on the episode description, which is Chris Whitten, who played drums for Paul McCartney and Greg Bissonette, who currently plays with Ringo Starr's All-Star Band. They both play this solo in unison. And if you watch it, you're going to see something that is really curious about it. Most of the phrases start with the left hand. So anyone who played drums or attempted to play drums, you know, if you're right handed,
00:38:27
Speaker
you play the hi-hats, those two cymbals that together understand. So those, you play the hi-hat with the right-hand, if you're right-handed, you might play with the left-hand if you're left-handed. But Ringo, he said this in many interviews, he was a left-handed drummer playing
00:38:46
Speaker
as a right-handed drummer, so he would play the right-handed drummer nobly, naturally plays high hat with the right hand and snare with the left. Some left-handed drummers play like that, some of them play the other way around, but he was playing that as a right-handed drummer most of the time, but his drum fills when he goes for the toms and you know move around the kit.
00:39:07
Speaker
He said he would start most of them from the left hand, which is very unusual because a normal drum fill goes from the left to the right side of the drum kit, which means you lead with your right hand.
00:39:19
Speaker
and he can lead the fills with his left hand and very often start the fill from the floor tom, which is the biggest drum on the right side of the kit. So for anyone who plays drums, he's playing like the other way around. He's starting from the end, if that makes any sense. And so when you look at that, anyone who plays drums and looks at that, you see that you have these guys, if I'm not wrong, the two drums I mentioned, they're right handed.
00:39:47
Speaker
And they play those phrases starting from the left hand, which is unusual, but there's no other way to do it if you want to sound like Ringo in that solo. So that solo, those eight bars,
00:39:58
Speaker
Again, just like we said about Heartbreaker, that's Ringo, and no one can sound exactly like that. It has to do with the fact he's a left-handed player in a right-handed kit. It has to do with his musical influences. His swing is not very straight. The song is quite straight in terms of rhythm, but he swings a lot over that solo. And there's, as I said, a lot of dynamics, and he brings the band back in. He builds up for the band.
00:40:28
Speaker
Drum solos, I'm a drummer and I have to say drum solos tend to be quite boring. We're talking about showing off. Most of the time you hear drum solo, it has no musical context for it. It's just like let the drummer, you know, give the drummer some famous phrase that people say for drummers when they're soloing. And most of the time it's just about let the drummer show off for a bit. But this one does it really well. There's a bit of that, but it's a lot of
00:40:54
Speaker
Here's an interesting upper cushion. Yeah, it's much less about showing off much more about the groove, the speed, the tempo of the song. But you're right, man, you know, I was just playing devil's advocate earlier, you know, it is a I'd say it is a solo. It's short, it's sweet, it's impactful, and a moment to shine for Ringo in a band with three other people who will shone in their own different ways. And less and less Ringo decided to go and
00:41:23
Speaker
unless Ringo decided to go prog he was never going to stand out in the Beatles was he because his job was just to do the simplest things whilst Paul sang and had lovely melodic bass lines George wrote some unusual songs with some quirky guitar solos John had his own songs and some guitar solos so Ringo never really came to the forefront of the band but it's right but you're right what you're saying it's lovely that at the
Engaging the Audience
00:41:45
Speaker
end
00:41:46
Speaker
The final song of the Beatles career, the last song they wrote together, Ringo gets his moment to shine and it does feel so right.
00:41:54
Speaker
going into that Love You groove when the rest of the band comes. There's also a guitar solo that comes there, isn't it? The three of them are playing guitar solos. It's a battle of guitars. That's what it is. It's a song where everyone is showing off. But it's the first time they gave that space for Ringo to do this.
00:42:18
Speaker
And I think it's kind of a tribute to him, like, you know, this guy staying here in the background is keeping the beat for us for almost a whole decade. Now, let him shine for a bit. Ringo has always shone when he keeps it simple. And the best example, I think, I always say, I've probably said about 10 times in this podcast,
00:42:41
Speaker
It's not about the notes you play, it's about the space you leave as well as less is more. Those two quotes I think is fantastic and fantastically sum up Ringo because what's that drum fill? It's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds where the drum fill is just
00:42:56
Speaker
Boom, three hits. Boom, boom. You listen to rock even in the sixties and drum fills did more than that, but it just works so well. Ringo knew what he had to do with the space he was given without overcomplicating it. And I think this is another great example of Ringo doing his job fantastically. He gets a lot of shit Ringo, doesn't he? Or he did. But I think the more people listen to the views and the more people understand them, the more that you realize he was such a pivotal member
00:43:25
Speaker
Yeah. So many people say he wasn't that good. Yes, he was that good. And I would have that with the perfect. He recorded the perfect grooves for 27 number one songs. You don't have a number one song without the perfect drum beat. You simply don't. So anyone out there who's recorded grooves for 27 number one songs can say that Ringo is not that good. Then you can give us your opinion on Ringo.
00:43:56
Speaker
Excellent. Cool. Right. I think that brings us to the end of, uh, of the first iconic solos episodes. And then just like the covers versus originals, I want to do this more, man. I want to, we'll see if we can do this every couple of months. It'd be really fun. Just get some of our favorite solos in, but you guys as well, we want to know, you know, I've said the obvious ones, Freebird, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child of Mine. Which one of those are your favorites? Yeah, play Freebird. Hotel California. We want to know of those favorites, what are you guys, what's your favorite?
00:44:25
Speaker
And of the ones that aren't that famous, what are some underrated solos that you think we'd like that we can get into and properly dissect and have a discussion on this podcast? So please let us know in the comments or get in touch with us to let us know. So anything else from you, sir?
00:44:40
Speaker
I just want to thank everyone for being with us again. And I really enjoyed this episode. And I think, yeah, let's talk more. You know, let's us non-guitarist discuss the best guitar solos and best solos in general out there. Because it's fun. It's a fun subject. And again, not a competition, isn't it? As a bass player and a drummer, I feel like we're probably more qualified than a guitarist to talk about guitarist stuff. Are guitarists qualified for anything, anyway? I'll just say.
00:45:10
Speaker
Yeah, good old band banter. Anyway, guys, thank you very much for joining us. As I said before, listen to the songs in the show notes below. Give us a like and subscribe if you're on YouTube or if you're listening on Apple or Spotify or any other podcast platforms. Please go ahead and give us a review and a short couple of sentences about what you love about the shows. It really helps us fly up the charts and get seen by the right people. So thank you again for joining us. Yeah, thanks for being with us. Keep on rocking, everyone.
00:45:39
Speaker
And as usual, take care and long live rock and roll.