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Winter Roots podcast: Programming with Sara Powell
34 Plays1 month ago
The Winter Roots podcast features thoughtful, practical conversations with nonprofit leaders about the nuts and bolts of nonprofit work.
Each conversation is shaped by real questions submitted by nonprofit professionals who participate in the Winter Roots learning community. The result is grounded, experience-based dialogue that reflects what people are actually wrestling with in their day-to-day work.
Winter Roots is a seasonal learning space rooted in reflection, shared wisdom, and humane approaches to nonprofit work. These podcast conversations are designed to stand on their own — whether you’re part of the Winter Roots community or discovering it for the first time!
Find out more about Winter Roots: https://www.harlownonprofitconsulting.com/the-way-we-work-winter2026
Connect with Abbey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harlownonprofitconsulting/
Connect with Sara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sara-powell-9b54961b4/
Find out more about the Hannah Grimes Center: https://hannahgrimes.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Winter Roots Podcast
00:00:01
Abbey Harlow
Welcome to the Winter Roots podcast. I'm Abby Harlow, and I'm really glad that you're here and listening. If Winter Roots is new to you, it's a free, seasonal, virtual learning space that brings together over 300 people from across the country and Canada working in and alongside nonprofits.
00:00:21
Abbey Harlow
It's rooted in the belief that how we gather matters just as much as what we're learning. and that the sector needs more spaces that center care and connection alongside strategy and skill
Purpose and Community Engagement
00:00:32
Abbey Harlow
building.
00:00:32
Abbey Harlow
These conversations are one way we extend that gathering.
00:00:34
Sara Powell
Thank you.
00:00:36
Abbey Harlow
So even if this podcast episode is your only point of entry, you're part of it. Hello. This podcast is the nuts and bolts piece of Winter Roots. It's where we bring in people with deep expertise and invite our participants to ask very real, very specific questions.
00:00:54
Abbey Harlow
Sometimes we we just need the chance to pick someone else's brain and ask a burning question. So the questions you'll hear today were not written by me. They were entirely sourced from the Winter Roots community. People who registered early shared what they most wanted to ask. um Specific, practical, complex, thorny, simple questions across the gamut to share with our podcast guests, and they were fascinating for me to read and pass along.
00:01:20
Abbey Harlow
um Across the season, I am speaking with experts on topics like databases, grant writing, branding, um today programming, and more. Each conversation is shaped by what the community is actively working through right now. um And just before we begin, i want to take a moment to thank our partners in this work.
Acknowledgments and Supporters
00:01:46
Abbey Harlow
Thank you to the Alchemist Foundation, who support the stability and strength of local nonprofits, Front Porch Forum, which is Vermont's locally owned online space built to help neighbors connect and build community, and to Little Green Light, which is an affordable donor management and fundraising software solution specifically built for the needs of small to midsize profits. And you can try it for free at littlegreenlight.com.
Introduction to Sarah Powell
00:02:11
Abbey Harlow
I'm joined today by Sarah Powell from the Hannah Grimes Center for Entrepreneurship. And I'm just gonna read her bio real quick before we say hello to her and jump into questions. um Sarah works at the intersection of rural entrepreneurship, land-based livelihoods, and inclusive economic development. At the Hannah Grimes Center, Sarah leads programs that help rural entrepreneurs like farmers, food producers, nonprofit leaders, and main street businesses. um She helps them start and grow ventures that reflect the value and potential of their communities. She believes deeply in the power of place and brings a personal understanding of rural life rooted in her own upbringing in the Catskills. Her background includes designing and scaling programs that support rural resilience and equity, building trust-based cross-sector partnerships across New England and beyond, managing multi-year grants with a focus on impact and accountability, facilitating peer learning and ecosystem building through convenings like Radically Rural.
00:03:13
Abbey Harlow
Whether Sarah is working one-on-one or shaping big picture strategy, she brings curiosity, humility, and a deep respect for local wisdom. Hi, Sarah. Thanks for being with us.
00:03:24
Sara Powell
Hi, Abby, I'm so grateful to be here. What a fun way to to round out my Friday morning at home here.
00:03:32
Abbey Harlow
ah Good. I'm so glad. um Should we get started?
00:03:35
Sara Powell
Yeah.
00:03:35
Abbey Harlow
We have a ah long list of questions for you from our from our people.
00:03:40
Sara Powell
Totally, I'm excited to have this conversation.
00:03:43
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. And these are sort of, you know, we paul we might even be like bopping back and forth between things.
00:03:48
Sara Powell
Mm-hmm.
00:03:48
Abbey Harlow
They're just sort of like um in the order they're in and we'll we'll take
Audience Engagement Strategies
00:03:53
Abbey Harlow
it as it comes. So here's a question about getting the word out.
00:03:55
Sara Powell
Mm-hmm.
00:03:57
Abbey Harlow
how How to get people... to the programs that you create, what materials and platforms are needed, what's best.
00:04:06
Sara Powell
Oh, I love this question. And it's something that we are always sort of talking about internally at Hannah Grimes. And I can say from from personal experience, so much of our approach is that relational um relationship piece where,
00:04:28
Sara Powell
we reach out one-on-one. We really kind of know our audience and, you know, we do the newsletter approach for sure. We send a weekly newsletter. We we have our social media channels. And when it comes to our sort of signature programs, it is reaching out one-on-one and saying, Hey, I really thought about you for this program. Um,
00:04:52
Sara Powell
Of course, depending on what kind of organization um you have and like kind of what your constituency looks like, that might might be unreasonable kind of approach. But we're we're a really small organization with a pretty targeted audience. And I also think um listening deeply to your um clients and your audience about what it is that they are wanting. i you know, in my early days, and I think we've all been there, you like, we have these like, really, like, awesome ideas, right? Like, oh I'm gonna like, create this really cool program. i think there's a need. And we've got, oh, we got some project funding to roll it out and pilot it and like crickets, right? And
00:05:40
Abbey Harlow
Hmm.
00:05:41
Sara Powell
I think it's, you know, um you know, best practice to really listen deeply and it might be, um you know, a staged sort of on ramp for to getting to that, you know, bigger program or things like that. But I think if you can really understand who you're trying to speak to for particular programs, you that can be really helpful because, you know, one thing that we, we talk to our, you know, entrepreneurs about is in the early stages of their growth and development is if you're trying to talk to everyone, you might be talking to nobody.
00:06:17
Sara Powell
Right. And I think we, we sort of intuitively understand that, like um it's not like a one one size fits all kind of thing.
00:06:18
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:06:26
Sara Powell
It's like, you know, who, where are those folks and how can you kind of help communicate the um value, right? What's it going to move forward in their life? Is it practical?
00:06:41
Sara Powell
Things like that.
00:06:44
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, those are such good points. Listening, I think it ah it always starts with listening, pretty much everything.
00:06:52
Sara Powell
yeah
00:06:52
Abbey Harlow
um how How do you balance the need to innovate programs with budget shortages? um so This person's saying we have lots of ideas for new programming that have the potential to increase revenue, but no cash to get the ball rolling.
00:07:07
Sara Powell
Yeah, that's definitely um comes up a lot. You know, we work with quite a few nonprofits in our region and also we're just so interconnected. There's a lot of overlap in who we serve and where we show up in the community.
00:07:15
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:07:19
Sara Powell
You know, our kids go to school together and we like chat in the parking lot, like
Innovating Within Budget Limits
00:07:23
Sara Powell
kind of stuff. And um I think that approach that we've taken at Hannah Grimes just in general is this, this, what can you, um, Maybe it's a deepening of existing programs.
00:07:23
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:07:34
Sara Powell
So you're not completely reinventing the wheel. So that could potentially give you some opportunity to, um you know, take what you've already got, you know, and recycle it a little bit or regenerate it a little bit and really dive into like what's what's working.
00:07:49
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:07:54
Sara Powell
um And that can kind of get you through some lean times, I think, and really doubling down on that relationship piece, who are your core constituents and clients, how can you engage them, re-engage them, you know, offer something like, oh, they've done this program.
00:08:11
Sara Powell
Maybe we're doing like a 2.0 version, which is a very similar structure. so we don't need a ton of new staff time to reinvent, you know, curriculum and things like that.
00:08:24
Sara Powell
But it's still offering some new value. and I think that that's actually been kind of fun for us. It's like, how do we sort of take some existing,
00:08:31
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:08:34
Sara Powell
um core programming that has really proven itself in our sort of land and tweak it for a different audience or a different sort of sector because we are working with um mostly with entrepreneurs and folks in our community doing project-based work. And then as far as the potential to increase revenue, that's really can be tricky. i think depending on what your funding um looks like, it you know for us at Hannah Grimes, our programs are are a pretty small part of our revenue. We sort of fill in around that with other things just based on the demographics that we serve.
00:09:15
Sara Powell
Um, but yeah, I think if you can kind of be a little bit scrappy in a sense, or, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Like not even recycling, but like, um,
00:09:27
Abbey Harlow
Repurposing maybe?
00:09:28
Sara Powell
repurposing, yeah, because I think kind of what can happen in or small organizations is, and I might be, I might like read between the lines a little on this one is like, you know, new staff come in and they have great energy, which is awesome, right?
00:09:29
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. yeah
00:09:42
Sara Powell
Like it brings this influx of new ideas and different things, but depending on how much funding you have to do project-based, you know, new programs, um you know, it can feel like some of the older things get left in the dust.
00:09:57
Sara Powell
And there might be a reason for that. Like, it might just be like, that didn't work at all. So we're definitely not picking that back up off the, the cutting room floor or like finding that dusty folder wherever it may be.
00:10:08
Sara Powell
But, but to be honest, like sometimes those dusty folders can bring some really good um insight and can be a really good jumping off place. I love um being able to take existing kind of thinking and programming and like putting a new spin on it or really seeing how we can tweak it or shift it depending on what we're trying to do.
00:10:17
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:10:34
Sara Powell
So I don't know if I fully answered that question, but I think that's something that I think can, I've seen work well and not just with us, but like other organizations that we work with in the community.
00:10:36
Abbey Harlow
yeah
00:10:45
Sara Powell
Yeah.
00:10:47
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, that's my two takeaways from that are you don't have to reinvent the wheel. And there are, there's always like some nuggets to be found in, in older or done things, even if they're not exactly what you want to do or what your community needs right now.
00:11:05
Sara Powell
Yeah, and I think it's like finding that baseline. like And also another another thing that I should mention is like can you can you collaborate? And I know that takes a whole sort of set of resources, both like um it's time and and energy resources, but is there a way to collaborate and...
00:11:13
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:11:23
Sara Powell
sort of share um physical space. Like if you're like, well, we don't have a budget to rent something, like, is there a way you can partner? Because I think a lot of folks are experiencing lean times.
00:11:34
Sara Powell
And so I think that it could be a really nice opportunity to revisit some of those strategic partnerships as well and see if there's a way to to move something forward in a smaller bite with a partnership.
00:11:35
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:11:48
Abbey Harlow
yeah now um Moving to a sort of a demographics question, what formats are do you find are most appealing to the 22 to 35 year old demographic? How about maybe 36 to 50, this person is asking.
Virtual vs. In-Person Learning Formats
00:12:08
Sara Powell
Oh, this is such an interesting question. And I think like formats, meaning like virtual versus in person kind of like, or thinking through.
00:12:15
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, i maybe. I mean, I think that the
00:12:17
Sara Powell
Yeah.
00:12:18
Abbey Harlow
i think whatever lens you want to look at it through that that could certainly be one yeah
00:12:20
Sara Powell
yeah Well, we work with like a really mixed audience at Hannah Grimes. And, um you know, we get the folks in that are, you know, have are like digital natives and can whip around on a computer and, you know, put together a spreadsheet and and are really like hitting the ground, completely running with that in the same class as somebody who I'm teaching them how to use a Chromebook, right?
00:12:50
Sara Powell
Like they are like, I haven't used a computer and you know, so many years.
00:12:50
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:55
Sara Powell
We do a lot of in-person cohort programming at Hannah Grimes intentionally, um really trying to serve that need to be together and learn alongside each other in that sort of adult learning space.
00:13:10
Sara Powell
I think it's really, special to have mixed um ages and mixed demographics. Cause what we've seen is, Oh, that person that's a digital native will like lean over and be like, I can help you.
00:13:23
Sara Powell
Like, you know, and they're really good at explaining like how to do something. And it's a really sweet sort of like intergenerational moment. um
00:13:31
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:13:32
Sara Powell
And, you know, and then we do have virtual opportunities. um One thing that we, we're going to maybe start dipping our toe into is some, like not a lot of these because we still really believe in the in-person or just sort of like engaged virtual spaces, but for certain topics like a, you know, self-paced kind of opportunity for certain things. And I think there are some folks that are really looking for that and we might not be seeing them so much at at our organization because we don't particularly offer that as an option, like folks that want to like look around and kind of find out things on their own. um So I don't know if I exactly answered that question format wise. I think that would be interesting for us like internally to kind of pay a little bit more attention to and see if we see ah a real breakdown between like ways that we engage in programming. So it's a really interesting question.
00:14:28
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. and You know, I think my, my takeaway or something from that is like,
00:14:35
Abbey Harlow
While it's good to think about different needs for your your audience or your your clients or the people in your community, it's also there's a lot of power to thinking beyond age groups and getting people together, um you know, all the time, not, you know, all walks of all walks of life, all ages.
00:14:55
Abbey Harlow
um
00:14:55
Sara Powell
Yeah, there's so much value in that and they really love it. People really get excited about it because in adult learning and and that's the space that I sort of operate primarily is like, we're all learning alongside of each other. And I think you're, you're offering this exact experience with winter roots, right? It's like, we all have sort of our lived experience, our professional selves, our, our personal selves. And we come to the work with history. And I think it's really fun to see how people can engage with um their own story, like through the work that we do.
00:15:28
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, for sure. um So let's talk a little bit about program staff. And I'm guessing this problem this question probably came from someone who's maybe not just a program program staff member.
00:15:38
Sara Powell
Mm-hmm.
00:15:41
Abbey Harlow
um Do you have any tips on working with program staff to get them to collect and share real-time evaluation data?
Collecting and Utilizing Evaluation Data
00:15:49
Sara Powell
Oh, that is interesting. So kind of like in the room, like either questionnaires or conversations, I think what keep it simple. Like we, we have some, some structures around getting um evaluation data and, um,
00:16:13
Sara Powell
like written feedback.
00:16:15
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:16:15
Sara Powell
I think, you know, one thing that we have played around with that I've played around with is ah like QR codes in the room, like give everybody an opportunity to like take a screenshot or, you know, use the QR code, scan the QR code, take them to a very simple questionnaire and kind of just keep that live in the room.
00:16:34
Sara Powell
um Asking really, um Again, very short, like one to three questions right at the end. It can be a part of the debrief conversation. Again, we would sort of like do some training on, you know, the scope of that and like what questions to to keep consistent and then and make sure there's somebody in the room, maybe another team member that's like taking some notes, which is great. And then Honestly, like, good old fashioned.
00:17:02
Sara Powell
I'm like, old school programs. I love a sticky note situation on a wall.
00:17:05
Abbey Harlow
Oh yeah, me too.
00:17:09
Sara Powell
And again, like rolling it into the debrief. And like and this is like, about listening really carefully to like, listen really carefully to the conversations that are happening during the debrief, especially if people are floating around, answering questions, and then just kind of keep track of that, because that could be sort of part of some anonymized storytelling that you can do about about that. And I think, too, one thing that we're always asking ourselves when we're revisiting our data collection and, and, and how, and it's really about the why, like training your staff and training your team about,
00:17:48
Sara Powell
why we're collecting what we're collecting and being really targeted so that it makes it's a clear line to oh maybe this is you know we're definitely hoping to improve uh programming and get some you know stories that we can share with our community and our funders maybe there's something directly tied that we we really need a specific metric for a grant report or something like that so that it just makes it real it's not just this
00:17:58
Abbey Harlow
Right, right.
00:18:12
Sara Powell
um Robotic thing that we're like supposed to do. um You know, it makes it alive.
00:18:16
Abbey Harlow
right right
00:18:19
Sara Powell
And then, and I think if you really um right size your data collection, it can be, it can still be fresh. And it's not, again, go back to those dusty folders.
00:18:31
Abbey Harlow
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:18:31
Sara Powell
I think we've all been in that position where we come into a role and we're like, what is the system around here? And you get those, you get the evaluations and no one looks at them, right?
00:18:37
Abbey Harlow
ra
00:18:40
Sara Powell
It's like, well, whose job is it to look at those things? And so I think keep it simple, be really strategic about the why and engaging ways that folks can kind of use it as a debrief conversation can be really, so really supportive.
00:18:53
Abbey Harlow
hu Yeah, that's great. And that transitions nicely into this next question. Somebody says, I would love to hear some examples of how small organizations can do effective program evaluation in order to create metrics on specific programs that can be used in grant reporting.
00:19:11
Abbey Harlow
Hmm.
00:19:12
Sara Powell
Mm hmm. That's ah such a good question. i love this question. Well, it's kind of fun because I you know, when you step into roles, you sort of look and see, okay what were the systems that have been built and um a lot of data collection and not a clear path for where it ends up or like how we're how we can even possibly utilize it.
00:19:31
Sara Powell
Right. And so i think, again, right sizing it, right sizing it for the size of your organization, for the needs that you have um being
00:19:32
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:42
Sara Powell
really realistic when you're writing your grants about what you're able to offer as a metric, right?
00:19:46
Abbey Harlow
hurt
00:19:50
Sara Powell
And then that kind of goes both ways.
00:19:51
Abbey Harlow
well
00:19:52
Sara Powell
It's like a little bit chicken or the egg on that. But I think just being really real with yourselves about like your capacity for data collection and analysis and then how it and where it ends up.
00:20:04
Sara Powell
So I think like, you know, a good starting place is to pick like three tough four core metrics like per program, right? And this is the basics, like who showed up, you know, how did, what shifted for them?
00:20:21
Sara Powell
you know, did you learn about any of their next steps?
00:20:23
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:20:24
Sara Powell
You know, like what, just sort of that human piece. And then the mix of the quan quantitative sort of like, um you know, scale based questions, if you feel like you want to see it depends on like what kind of programming, right. And then I think being consistent, so sort of being like realistic, and then being really consistent with that, so that you can sort of track over time, um what you're Obviously that's like what we're doing.
00:20:51
Sara Powell
And then we we ask for quotes. Like, I think we specifically say like, Hey, can you offer, you know, a quote about your experience?
00:20:55
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:21:01
Sara Powell
Um, and for every program, like, and we just kind of keep them, you know, we have them and we use them like for all kinds of reasons, but it's like total gold. It's amazing. It helps in your grant reporting. It helps in your grant writing. You can go back and say, listen, like, this is a real need that we're solving. We would love to do more of this. Here's some real true voices
Storytelling in Program Evaluation
00:21:22
Sara Powell
of the folks. And, and that makes it really human. And that also makes it really fun when you're, you're not just doing like,
00:21:29
Sara Powell
the demographic numbers or you know that kind of stuff.
00:21:30
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:21:32
Sara Powell
It's really, um and then you know then you can really say based on participant feedback, we observed, we received this information, and you can package it in a nice sort of story with the numbers to back it up.
00:21:46
Sara Powell
So keep it simple and have a little bit of a mix of, you know, qualitative and quantitative, get those stories. And, um you know, don't don't go crazy, be really realistic with yourself about like what you actually need and use it.
00:22:02
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. Yeah. That's so, that's so important. And I think along those lines, some two things that, that came out for me of what you said, but come up a lot in my work with people is one, have have some sort of process for gathering quotes, for gathering stories that works for you and works for the community you're serving and just like, keep at it. Cause that's such important feedback to get.
00:22:27
Abbey Harlow
um And yeah,
00:22:28
Sara Powell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:30
Abbey Harlow
And then also, what was the other thing I was going to say? Oh, just ah sort of ah along the theme of what we're we're talking about is just repurposing. You know, what what are some of those things that you're collecting for grants and how can you maybe use that in other ways too? So it's not just like going into this, into a grant report. You know, you're you're putting in other places maybe.
00:22:51
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:22:52
Sara Powell
Absolutely. and And I'll just add, I'll just sort of add a little bit, like the story piece is something that we found to be really effective in not only grant grant processes, but really communicating to the community and to our audience. Like people can see themselves in in stories or in ah and a community member or neighbor that's sharing their exact experience of a program and sort of just amplifies, you know,
00:23:24
Sara Powell
that we really are working with one person at a time or building that relationship or solving the best that we can, some real needs that they have, and we're all learning alongside of each other.
00:23:28
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:23:35
Sara Powell
And it sort of adds some robustness and it gets people an opportunity to really so understand what it is that we do at a deeper level.
00:23:45
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, absolutely. um Next question comes from somebody who wants to know best practices for internal communications across the organization. How do you celebrate wins and grieve losses together as a full staff? And I'm guessing this is from a programmatic perspective.
Celebrating Wins and Addressing Losses
00:24:05
Sara Powell
This is such a deep question. i was thinking about this and, you know, I have my experience within the organization that I work now and we're always sort of tweaking and revisiting um this.
00:24:08
Abbey Harlow
Mm hmm.
00:24:19
Sara Powell
I think it's having clarity kind of about what um
00:24:26
Sara Powell
needs to be communicated, I guess. One, I'll give you a funny little story. So for how we celebrate wins at Hannah Grimes, like things are happening. all the time. Grant money's coming in people are graduating programs, people are going out and doing stuff in the community.
00:24:41
Sara Powell
Like we're all sort of like, it's a, it's rolling like pretty quickly. Right. At a pace that like, we can't all keep track of everything all the time.
00:24:45
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:49
Sara Powell
And so our founding director initiated this thing called the kazoo moment where like, if you hear someone like blowing their kazoo in their office, you're, You know, something really cool just happened.
00:25:01
Sara Powell
And you're just like, you take a moment to pause and be like, yeah, that's so awesome. um You know, just to, for ourselves to have some internal process to like take pauses and like sell really like actually have.
00:25:15
Sara Powell
like a system and a ritual, to be honest, like around those, that celebration, whether it's all together or not. And it's, it's kind of a funny little thing. And now we have, we have teams, we use teams for internal communication, we used to use Slack, that's a great way to having some channels set up in there, depending on your needs. I know, like,
00:25:39
Sara Powell
some people are more comfortable with using the the messaging tools, you know, than others, but we found it to be really fun. And so we have a kazoo channel in there now.
00:25:51
Sara Powell
So we still have the kazoo kazoo we use, but like, it's a way to just really be like,
00:25:51
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:25:57
Sara Powell
celebrating wins, reporting out things that like maybe we had in a staff meeting, like someone was really like, I'm not sure how this is going to go.
00:25:59
Abbey Harlow
yeah
00:26:04
Sara Powell
I feel a little anxious about this. I need a little pep talk or maybe someone can, can you help read over this thing? Whatever it may be, right? Like you've looked for some team support and it's a way to report out, oh my gosh, it went great.
00:26:15
Sara Powell
Like here's what happened. And it's really sweet. It's always fun. Like if you're out on big break, like you're on vacation or something, you come back and it's fun to see like catch up on communications and the kazoo channel is like the place I always go first because it's really fun to see like oh my gosh all this stuff just like
00:26:27
Abbey Harlow
Well, of course. Yeah.
00:26:34
Sara Powell
happen in our, in our, um, in our organization and with my teammates. Um, and then the same with grieving losses, I think just having really good systems to, build team rapport, to be honest, like having those opportunities to pause and rituals around that, um, and opportunities to, to like do retreat time together so that you're really building that sense of, um, respect and,
00:27:03
Sara Powell
um like space to process, you know, oh, that that grant report didn't didn't happen or whatever it may be and to have some systems around that too.
00:27:12
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:14
Sara Powell
um You know, I think we we do a good job of supporting each other and sometimes it's like, hey, can we take a walk? you know let's let's and like be And having that be part of the culture of the organization that these moments of pause actually are really valuable and they will um provide support for your team, but also you know help you be more um connected and productive in other ways.
00:27:42
Sara Powell
um I think when you try to like, brush too many things under the rug, as we all know, it doesn't go well. So I think, again, just creating ritual creating um culture around that and it can look a lot of different ways like you could have a lot of fun with it.
00:27:56
Sara Powell
Like the kazoo is just one example of what we do.
00:28:00
Abbey Harlow
I love that. Yeah.
00:28:01
Sara Powell
Yeah, yeah. cool
00:28:02
Abbey Harlow
um And I love, yeah, the idea of just having ritual and it sort of more normalizes the idea of ah of a loss or something not going as planned. um Yeah, instead of maybe feeling shame around it, it's just saying, hey, let's let's all, let's talk about it, you know.
00:28:21
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:28:22
Sara Powell
Absolutely. And it takes, it like depressurizes it, right? Like, you know, it could be it for any number of reasons, like, oh, I made a mistake. I missed a deadline or, I just didn't go.
00:28:33
Sara Powell
i didn't go the way I wanted. Or maybe it's a whole organization thing, but being really like having good channels of clear, honest, open communication and a culture that supports that.
00:28:44
Sara Powell
Exactly.
00:28:44
Abbey Harlow
sir Absolutely. um Our next question is, how about professional
Incorporating Professional Development
00:28:52
Abbey Harlow
development? What are some tips for getting nonprofit professionals to take professional development more seriously and work it into their calendar?
00:29:03
Sara Powell
I love this question, too. i think because it also speaks to culture. i think one um way that you can do this is really have it make it part of your employee handbook, figure out what the thresholds are for people being you know out of the office or you know what kinds of professional development. And it doesn't always need to be that you have, as an organization, have to pay for it. It's it's like allowing someone to have time.
00:29:35
Abbey Harlow
Hmm.
00:29:35
Sara Powell
to take advantage of something. I think that it's really awesome. Like if you can, one thing that we've incorporated, it's in our handbook, but also in our kind of check-in process, our alignment process that we have a couple of times a year is, Is there anything that you're that you'd love to take advantage of?
00:29:55
Sara Powell
Basically a question specifically about PD um and, you know, do you need funding for it? Is it something, you know, just kind of like having it on the brains and having it mixed into a couple different places in the culture of the work, it's it's kind of so ingrained now that we send each other stuff.
00:30:13
Sara Powell
We're like, oh, hey, I saw this. I really think this would be awesome for you and your role and and like really supporting each other and taking advantage of those opportunities.
00:30:15
Abbey Harlow
laughter
00:30:22
Sara Powell
um I think it's just like, how do you take it seriously? you have to You have to make it real. It has to be part of your process, your procedures written down um in the structure. and And then it's embedded in that way. and It becomes a cultural norm that people can really be excited about. I also think I've heard from other organizations.
00:30:46
Sara Powell
And I can i can speak, i've so I've experienced this in organizations, not the one that I'm currently in, but who gets to take advantage of PD, you know, kind of that hierarchy in the culture of, um you know, director level positions, admin level positions, and how that mix.
00:30:54
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. hello
00:31:04
Sara Powell
And it's really like, no, this is an opportunity for anybody on the team. And being really clear that it is a value to the organization that folks have the opportunity to grow in their roles, both professionally and personally, and that it really does build a strong culture and strong organization to do that.
00:31:28
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, for sure. um ah This is our last official question, and it's going back to ah pure programmatic basics, I think, in a
Deciding Program Fees
00:31:38
Abbey Harlow
great way. So fee based versus free, how to determine when it's appropriate?
00:31:44
Sara Powell
it's a Know Your Audience. um It's a... Know what really clear on what your funding allows, what kind of thresholds do you have.
00:31:56
Sara Powell
um I know that looks different for every organization. um We do a mix. um And we also have scholarship dollars that come through in different ways to support folks that might need. I know i know organizations that have success with a sliding scale and are really clear about you know, needs base, depending on like how um much monetary value you're assigning to a program, like if it's a really big program with a big ticket sort of value.
00:32:24
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:32:31
Sara Powell
um I think you can stage things to like, we do it by time And like how much time the program will take like to deliver. So is it a 90 minute zoom versus a three or four hour in person and then we sort of have a rate that we aim to pay our instructors and then we cover that through, um you know, fee, or we offset it with other dollars.
00:32:59
Sara Powell
That's kind of how we think about it so that we can, we really value the time of the folks that are offering the experience. And we do certainly have volunteer things as well.
00:33:10
Sara Powell
So I think it kind of really depends on the mix of resources, programming, and and knowing your your audience too, like who you're serving.
00:33:19
Abbey Harlow
count.
00:33:20
Sara Powell
You know, we serve, you know, different you know, folks that are, and you know, have socioeconomic um challenges and, you know, to take advantage of a program, they really need it to be your very low cost.
00:33:35
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. Well, Sarah, thank you so much. Those are the end of my sort of official questions. um But thank you. i i feel like I've learned so much in our half hour together, and I'm sure others will feel the same way when they
Conclusion and Further Engagement
00:33:51
Abbey Harlow
listen to this. um Before we close, where can people find more about you, connect with you, or learn more about Hannah Grimes?
00:34:00
Sara Powell
Yeah, so you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Sarah Powell. You can definitely check out the Hannah Grimes Center for Entrepreneurship. um Our website has you know all the all the different programs that we that we run. We also have some guides that we work with organizations.
00:34:21
Sara Powell
If folks are interested in like kind of replicating and you Talk about not reinventing the wheel. If you want to sort of learn from some of our work and take take what we have and and tweak it and make it your own for your own um audience, sort of in that entrepreneur space.
00:34:28
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:37
Sara Powell
we We definitely have opportunities to connect over that. And then you can Sarah at Hannah Grimes dot com and reach out. I'd love to have a virtual coffee and.
00:34:49
Sara Powell
and get to know folks that way too. And i just really appreciate the opportunity to kind of share and nerd out a little bit on programming and with all the different considerations.
00:34:56
Abbey Harlow
know
00:35:01
Sara Powell
It's really, really fun. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
00:35:05
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, this was delightful. Thank you. um And you can connect with me, Abby Harlow on LinkedIn or visit HarlowNotProfitConsulting.com. That's also where you can learn more about Winter Roots, join the mailing list, to um hear about future offerings, Winter Roots 2027. I'm putting it out there and forcing myself but to, not forcing myself, but just like like I'm putting it out there and saying, hey, it's happening again. um And I'll put that info and Sarah's info into the show note as well. um
00:35:37
Abbey Harlow
And my hope as you, the listener, lead this conversation is that you maybe have one or two things that's that you you're thinking I'm going to bring this back and think about it right away and then maybe you have other things you want to bring back another time but just take away one or two things um and and sort of noodle on them for a while and and think about how they might be helpful to your work um and thank you thank you Sarah again um and we'll we'll talk soon
00:36:04
Sara Powell
Thank