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Branding and Photography with Justin Jankus
52 Plays11 days ago
The Winter Roots podcast features thoughtful, practical conversations with nonprofit leaders about the nuts and bolts of nonprofit work.
Each conversation is shaped by real questions submitted by nonprofit professionals who participate in the Winter Roots learning community. The result is grounded, experience-based dialogue that reflects what people are actually wrestling with in their day-to-day work.
Winter Roots is a seasonal learning space rooted in reflection, shared wisdom, and humane approaches to nonprofit work. These podcast conversations are designed to stand on their own — whether you’re part of the Winter Roots community or discovering it for the first time!
Find out more about Winter Roots: https://www.harlownonprofitconsulting.com/the-way-we-work-winter2026
Connect with Abbey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harlownonprofitconsulting/
Connect with Justin: www.justinjankus.net
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Transcript
Introduction to Winter Roots Podcast
00:00:01
Abbey Harlow
Welcome to the Winter Roots podcast. I'm Abby Harlow and I am really glad you're here. If Winter Roots is new to you, it's a free seasonal virtual learning space that brings together over 300 people from across the country and Canada working in and alongside nonprofits. It's rooted in the belief that how we gather matters just as much as what we're learning and that the sector needs more spaces that center care and connection alongside strategy and skill building.
Platform for Nonprofit Q&A
00:00:34
Abbey Harlow
These conversations are one way we extend that gathering. So even if this podcast episode is your only point of entry, you're part of Winter Roots. Hello. This podcast is a nuts and bolts piece of Winter Roots. It's where we bring in people with deep expertise and invite participants to ask very specific questions that they're grappling with. because sometimes we all just need the chance to pick someone else's brain and ask them a burning question.
00:01:02
Abbey Harlow
The questions you'll hear today were not written by me at all. They were entirely sourced from the Winter Roots community. People who registered early shared what they most wanted to ask on these topics, specific, practical, complex questions that were really fascinating for me to read and share with our podcast guests.
00:01:22
Abbey Harlow
Across the season, I'm speaking with experts on topics like databases, nonprofit programming, recruiting and supporting leadership, grant writing, plan giving, and today branding and photography and design.
00:01:36
Abbey Harlow
Every conversation is shaped by what the community is working through right now.
Acknowledgment of Partners
00:01:42
Abbey Harlow
Before we begin, i just want to take a moment to thank our partners in this work. um Thank you to the Alchemist Foundation who support the stability and strength of local nonprofits, Front Porch Forum, Vermont's locally owned online space built to help neighbors connect and build community, and to Little Greenlight, which is an affordable donor management and fundraising software solution.
00:02:07
Abbey Harlow
specifically built for the needs of small to midsize nine nonprofits. And you can try it for free at littlegreenlight.com.
Meet Justin Jankis
00:02:16
Abbey Harlow
I am joined today by Justin Jankis of Justin Jankis Creative Services, who also happens to be my husband.
00:02:22
Abbey Harlow
So this is extra special for me. um I'm going to read his bio.
00:02:25
Justin Jankus
Thank you.
00:02:27
Abbey Harlow
ah Justin is a based photographer, graphic designer, and website designer living in central Vermont with his wife, Abby, their dog, and their two precocious and delightfully joyful children, Lucy and Michael, as well as their two cats, Malibu and Zora, um who were recent acquisitions, which is I assume why they're not on here.
00:02:54
Abbey Harlow
He and Abby moved to Vermont in 2015 in search of a different kind of life than the one they were living in Boston. A life that prioritized time with each other, community, and the natural beauty of this state.
00:03:06
Abbey Harlow
The creative path Justin is on today is a continuation of those values, an opportunity to help others share their stories while continuing to refine his own. Justin brings flexibility and curiosity to all his projects.
00:03:21
Abbey Harlow
He especially loves working closely with clients to capture the singular essence of their business and show them how to stand out. In his spare time, Justin enjoys growing vegetables, jaunting, biking, building things, riding his motorcycle, and learning far too much about cars.
00:03:40
Justin Jankus
Oh, I'm glad that's there.
00:03:41
Abbey Harlow
Yes, I'm glad that that I'm interviewing you so I can use sound effects. Welcome, Justin.
00:03:52
Abbey Harlow
Welcome.
00:03:53
Justin Jankus
Thank you so much. I was pausing for a moment because our dog decided that... Oh, no. We lost connection to the server?
00:04:03
Abbey Harlow
Oh, I can hear you.
00:04:04
Justin Jankus
Okay. Our dog... ah decided to notice that there was somebody maybe outside. Maybe outside.
00:04:11
Abbey Harlow
who Well, that's that's life with Babs.
00:04:13
Justin Jankus
Okay.
00:04:15
Abbey Harlow
um
00:04:15
Justin Jankus
It's life at that.
00:04:17
Abbey Harlow
How's it going?
Preparing for Vermont's Winter
00:04:19
Justin Jankus
Oh, going well. um We're getting ready right now for what keeps on being told as like one of the gnarliest storms that we're going to see. um Getting ready for cold, cold weather. 20 or 40, I think.
00:04:36
Justin Jankus
Which is wild.
00:04:37
Abbey Harlow
Wind chills of up to negative 40.
00:04:38
Justin Jankus
Yeah.
00:04:39
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:04:39
Justin Jankus
Yes. Which is wild in our part of Vermont because we're central Vermont. Nothing fancy um in terms of like nott we're not up in the mountains or anything. We're just in the in a little valley.
00:04:50
Justin Jankus
So it's going to be cold. and We're getting ready for that.
00:04:53
Abbey Harlow
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:04:59
Abbey Harlow
How are you preparing for it?
00:05:03
Justin Jankus
Well, nitty gritty, I'm going to ah shovel our walkway after this call and then hope we don't lose power.
00:05:12
Abbey Harlow
Okay, me too.
00:05:13
Justin Jankus
That's all I can do.
00:05:16
Abbey Harlow
Shall we dive into some of these questions that people asked?
00:05:18
Justin Jankus
Yeah, is Babsy asking questions? I'm just curious. Because I can hear her.
00:05:23
Abbey Harlow
ah No, no, I don't hear her anymore.
00:05:24
Justin Jankus
okay Okay, good. Okay, good. okay
00:05:27
Abbey Harlow
All right.
Branding for Nonprofits
00:05:29
Abbey Harlow
OK, so our first question. Building a brand is important for fundraising, but how do I get others to see that and to implement it?
00:05:41
Justin Jankus
So it boils down for me and the work that I've done with um nonprofits and small businesses. When you define your brand, it allows you to stay consistent, um whether that be ah consistent communications or whether that be making that you're only using a certain set of colors or your fonts or you're actually using your logo and some more branded things um all the time. It just shows consistency. and then lot of times we can see in for the professional world consistently, is consistency means professional. eagleson
00:06:20
Justin Jankus
um So it's that first off, it just shows that you are a bona fide organization, that you have some of your stuff together um and that you care about your image and care about how you communicate with the outside world.
00:06:38
Justin Jankus
um And that's tough sometimes because it's a really conceptual idea. um But it's the same as like but being dressed appropriately for a conversation or going out to dinner.
00:06:52
Justin Jankus
Or it's how you present your house, how you decide to live your life, what things you get involved in, whether it be politics or whether they're all about intention and intention.
00:07:09
Justin Jankus
branding by saying this is who we are, this is what we look like, this is the fonts we use, this is the the colors we use, it really shows intentionality and then it brings consistency as you use it consistently.
00:07:23
Justin Jankus
um It also really helps, especially because especially with nonprofits and and sometimes not small businesses, the your Staff overturn can be sometimes high.
00:07:35
Justin Jankus
um It's either you have somebody that's been working there for eons and eons, or you have this intern that's going to make way for the next intern, make way for the next intern or volunteer. um And having a consistent brand and also kind of having a ah good set of guidelines for it keeps that um keeps that consistency going through multiple people.
00:07:59
Justin Jankus
Because we all approach things in a different way, and that's good. But if we want to make sure that the organization has one voice, um we need to keep consistent with that. And that's a voice that is both oral or written and also visual.
00:08:16
Justin Jankus
So if you really want to make sure that you're seen as the organization you are and you're putting yourself out there all the time, it really helps to have a defined brand. um and a defined image, a defined oh way that you're approaching the outside world.
00:08:33
Justin Jankus
um And it's also a lot of times, especially through social media, it's the first time a lot of people are interacting with you. um And having that having that ah easy and accessible to your staff or to your volunteers makes it so that those conversations don't have to uh if you pick up from somebody else if you're always talking in the same voice or you're always presenting yourself in the same voice or image
00:09:03
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, that makes a lot
Balancing Exposure and Saturation
00:09:05
Abbey Harlow
of sense. Thank you. um Along those lines, you know, when you're thinking through your brand and putting yourself out there as an organization, somebody asks, where's the line between exposure and saturation?
00:09:21
Justin Jankus
And then this kind of comes down to ah but approach that I go with every client I work with is that each organization is completely unique.
00:09:32
Justin Jankus
You might have some ah similar like, oh, we're working in an arts administration or we're working on making sure that community shelves are well stocked, especially with everything that's going on.
00:09:46
Justin Jankus
um But each one has its own issues, has its own problems, has its own opportunities, has its own strengths. um So it's really down to the business itself and the organization itself.
00:09:59
Justin Jankus
um So. I always, when I'm working with people, like I always try to get at the the gist of who they are. And then you can kind of, it's an easier transition then to say, oh, well, maybe you only need to post this many times a week, or or maybe you really only need to email once a month, or maybe you only need to email quarterly.
00:10:20
Justin Jankus
um It is based on the business. um But the biggest thing I've found is making sure that every single time you put it out, even if you are putting out things every single day, making sure that it's worth it.
00:10:34
Justin Jankus
You don't want to have it just be busy work just so that you keep up the algorithm. You want that to be impactful because while you might get more views from it, the actual engagement, the shares and the comments um and the actual like, oh, I'm going to email this organization because I want to work with them or help them out.
00:10:55
Justin Jankus
Those things um are only going to really happen spontaneously, not from somebody who would normally donate to you or help you out, um but somebody new.
00:11:06
Justin Jankus
They're only going to happen if you bring about a compelling case. So if you're putting out something every single day, And it's like the minutia of, oh, we opened the door today. we we ah We were able to deliver um one meal or something like that. like yeah That's maybe not, you don't need to update everybody as as frequently as that. But if you can make it a compelling story, then people will want it more and more and more.
00:11:36
Justin Jankus
um So it's really about making sure that the message and how you're delivering it, whether visually or um through written, if it's more of like a um ah blue sky or a Twitter ah situation, making sure that it's compelling and it makes it is asking people to interact with it.
00:11:56
Justin Jankus
um Then it doesn't become saturated. um
00:12:00
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:12:00
Justin Jankus
It becomes saturated when people can just disregard it and say, oh, no, I don't need to look at that anymore. but's so That's what I've found in my experience.
00:12:10
Abbey Harlow
Yeah. and And along those lines, when you're thinking about how you're putting um your organization's message and needs out there, um
The Role of Print Media
00:12:22
Abbey Harlow
we have a question from someone that says, print is not dead.
00:12:27
Abbey Harlow
Do you agree?
00:12:30
Justin Jankus
I very much agree that print is not dead. um I think there's something very special about getting a ah physical piece from somebody else, um especially in this day and age of where we're, where it's like we're going in two different directions. We're consistently um having conversations, having arguments in a completely virtual space where we don't actually see, um,
00:12:58
Justin Jankus
facial expressions or we don't see nuance um and we just see text. we're We're moving in that direction. Then we also have some more and more people are moving towards um like D&D clubs or potluck clubs um or just going over to somebody's house and having a dinner.
00:13:17
Justin Jankus
um I know there was somebody I remember reading about recently where um she just had a dinner every single week where anybody could come and they could talk about anything and it brought people together that were from disparate backgrounds um so we have that i think you might have might have also seen it somewhere else it's very possible but the it it is that wonderful it's so those the the the the former situations bring our divisions back up they also like
00:13:32
Abbey Harlow
I believe I told you about that. yeah
00:13:51
Justin Jankus
It's tough because like ah I've also like had lots of interactions online that have helped me like figure out, oh, maybe I do have of ADHD. um But the same idea same end of things, I still then go and talk to somebody. um And I think the those the the other things, the kind of gatherings, are indicative of people who want to have a connection to something and a physical connection. so i think stickers, ah whether ah like my bottle is completely covered ah bottom to to a cap with stickers from different organizations or different brands that I like or just different things that just visually jumped out at me um to having a really beautiful annual report that you can send out to your um your audience. There's something wonderful about that. And there's also
00:14:38
Justin Jankus
This is something that Abby told me about, that she had read about.
00:14:40
Abbey Harlow
Thank you.
00:14:41
Justin Jankus
But ah Gen Zers, and in particular, really like getting mail. um So like the idea of it coming in the mail, it being something surprise, you open up your mailbox and you get this thing. And it's an impactful and you want to read it.
00:14:57
Justin Jankus
An impactful piece of of ah media. um It can be really... really wonderful and really connection make a a very solid connection with that individual.
00:15:08
Justin Jankus
um So it's not out of the question. If you're getting somebody to read and interact with you, do it. And print is a great way still to do it.
00:15:20
Justin Jankus
Not maybe every single thing. You don't need to send out something every month. But like in a report, a nice a written letter for an appeal, those go really, really far in terms of making a solid connection with somebody else, in my opinion.
00:15:39
Abbey Harlow
Great. Thank you.
Budget-Friendly Branding Strategies
00:15:41
Abbey Harlow
um Moving on to sort of staffing things. Somebody asks if the development director position has been downsized because the budget is as slim as slim can be, what guides exist to keep branding consistent for social media, fundraising appeals, and newsletter content?
00:16:02
Justin Jankus
the The first thing I would say for any organization that doesn't have the funding for these things is to really take some time and have a conversation um internally.
00:16:15
Justin Jankus
um A lot of the work that I do with organizations is that I'm sending out, to start at least, um um so I'll send out a questionnaire that has different questions that can allude um to overall feelings about somebody's organization.
00:16:30
Justin Jankus
um Those The going from the like questions to actually like implementing it, that's definitely where um it's really helpful to have a professional in there.
00:16:42
Justin Jankus
um But having those conversations and talking about it is really important. um But the big things you want to usually want to start with, and that's what any any brand starts with, is if you have a logo, that's great.
00:16:56
Justin Jankus
You might not have a logo, but if you do, use it when you can and use it a lot. and ah try to set up that we're only using this font, we're only using these colors, um those really simple things. Even if there's somebody might use squares, somebody might use circles inside of designs, or somebody might put a tint on something, as long as there's a slight cohesion, that visual um the visual style will we'll will come about um and will be seen as, again, the consistency aspect to it.
00:17:35
Justin Jankus
um But the biggest thing is like you want to utilize what you have. So whether it be board members or whether it be um interns or whether it be volunteers, um setting them up for success by giving them simple rules to follow.
00:17:52
Justin Jankus
um And they don't have to be that complicated. You don't have to worry about, oh, if this is 20 pixels from the edge versus this is 13 pixels from the edge, like in terms of like when you're putting something into an image.
00:18:06
Justin Jankus
um You really make it simple so that it can be easily attainable and you can have success with it. And for so this is this is a personal thing with me.
00:18:17
Justin Jankus
I would say, don't use AI. And I know there are there are great uses of AI, um but for design aspects, it's so obvious when something is AI. um And I think especially with when we're working so hard to make our organization make these organizations ah personal and making it like there's an actual real human connection, that putting that in between them, my I personally feel um can really kind of pull you back from that.
00:18:52
Justin Jankus
but but that that That's my opinion. But you can easily set up things in Canva. um You can make templates ah that people can use. And then they don't have to think about it. They can just pop them an image in or they pop some text in.
00:19:07
Justin Jankus
um But it takes a little bit of groundwork to start off and conversations.
00:19:14
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
Collaborative Efforts in Nonprofits
00:19:15
Abbey Harlow
And then, you know, ah ah sort of along those lines, what do you what does an organization do when their capacity and budget doesn't allow for professional consultants to work with them on branding, design or photography?
00:19:32
Justin Jankus
Yeah, it's the, Canvas is a great resource because you can set up the, like I said before, you can set up templates um so that there is consistency.
00:19:43
Justin Jankus
um And then also there's no kind of guesswork with it. um Again, it's the having those conversations and trying to establish what your brand is and what you want to come at ah out with.
00:19:55
Justin Jankus
um and how you want to be seen. ah Having those conversations before just jumping right in and doing it, that's also really helpful. um Another thing that we talked about, and this is is something that ah I believe Winter Roots is really all about, is reaching out to your um fellow non-profiters.
00:20:14
Justin Jankus
um There is... So ah one of the organizations I work with is a cooperative of food cooperatives in the Northeast. Neighboring Food Co-ops Association.
00:20:26
Justin Jankus
um And the most impactful thing I find from working with them is that even though they might there might be two uh co-ops that are different differently uh organizations different boards and they're almost in the same county or region like in a one little corner of vermont they still work together to help each other out and i think as non-profits we need to help each other out we're not in competition with other non-profits we're we're all helping to um fill in those gaps in the uh
00:21:04
Justin Jankus
in the kind of ah institutional flaws that we we have in our our society, and in the United States in particular. um So if we help each other up, we all do better. um To think in silos and think that, oh, I need to not talk to this person because they're ah doing the exact same thing we are.
00:21:24
Justin Jankus
it it doesn't It doesn't jive. You really want to reach out, ask questions, look for help. um And then also on the other thing is that Sometimes we look for grants specifically for um help out or a structures or help out with capital campaigns, but there are multiple grants in multiple different states. I was um talking with an organization out in Colorado recently. um They do adaptive ski sports.
00:21:53
Justin Jankus
And there is a grant out there for branding and promotional materials for the Colorado tourism industry. And if you kind of think outside of the box, that can be applied to all the work that they do um in terms of getting more and more people um out on the slopes. So finding those grants that can just, you can be devoted just to um say branding or say some ah promotional materials.
00:22:21
Justin Jankus
um There are those out there and they they might not be huge, but they might allow you to work or get ah your foot in the door with a professional. um especially if they're able to set up templates for you or set up a ah system for you.
00:22:37
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, that's a great point, um especially about the the collaboration between organizations.
00:22:38
Justin Jankus
Yeah.
00:22:45
Abbey Harlow
I think sharing resources with each other and actually went the winter roots that we did earlier this week was was so much about this, about how um professional growth
Professional Growth Through Collaboration
00:22:57
Abbey Harlow
doesn't have to be formal.
00:22:57
Abbey Harlow
It can be through conversation, through picking up the phone and and chatting with um another, you know, your comrade at another organization um or passing along a resource.
00:23:10
Justin Jankus
yeah we bre or I think but yeah the brethren or sister in as I think we were talking about when you were trying to figure out how to address everybody in the winter roots conversations are are are are we are wild wild animals ah in terms of human beings but we
00:23:12
Abbey Harlow
Your brethren. Yeah. Yeah. yes
00:23:21
Abbey Harlow
yeah um yeah
00:23:33
Justin Jankus
do have this wonderful thing where we can talk with each other and come to understandings we can learn from each other so quickly and it's something that we need to utilize more um just talk i mean i think it helps so much and also that vulnerability of saying i need some help and if you normalize that then it doesn't seem so wild and crazy. And maybe somebody will offer up help unwillingly, or you maybe you actually are going to be able to help out somebody else later on. it's
00:24:06
Justin Jankus
As the saying goes, the gift that keeps on giving.
00:24:10
Abbey Harlow
Absolutely.
00:24:11
Justin Jankus
But yeah, I fully i really embrace them. I work with all my clients. I like having conversations with them. I like working on designs with them. like in like like Actually, as we're like I'm on the on the program on Illustrator, and they're talking with me on Zoom and watching me work, like there's something wonderful.
00:24:29
Justin Jankus
doesn't always work. But there's something wonderful of having a collaborative relationship with the people you work with and the people you're asking for help with.
00:24:38
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, absolutely. um
00:24:43
Abbey Harlow
Moving on to sort of a nuts and bolts social media question.
Social Media Effectiveness
00:24:48
Abbey Harlow
um What what platforms have proven successful marketing spaces for nonprofit organizations?
00:24:59
Justin Jankus
I think centering on just one is is difficult because it really depends, especially when you're talking about all, like I talked about before, each of these organizations is in their own way unique.
00:25:11
Justin Jankus
um It really depends on who your audience is. um I think it's it's good to evaluate what social media you're using right now um and then say, well, maybe you only work on Instagram um or maybe you're only on ah LinkedIn and trying out like a TikTok video or trying out um it's something a little bit more adventurous, um I think they all meet different criteria.
00:25:41
Justin Jankus
um For visual stimulus, I think you get like TikTok and Instagram are going to kind of deliver those um ones where it can just be like the dopamine hits and just keep on seeing the same images over and over again. I think it can work well for that. But then you also have telling stories. You can do that on like a blue sky or an X um or on something like LinkedIn, where you might be able to connect with um other professionals that might be might want to become board members, might want to
00:26:12
Justin Jankus
ah be ah be donors or maybe be organizational collaborators. it's It really depends on ah who you're trying to get in contact with. i think they all have their own their own uses. And also, they're always changing. So it's it's helpful to keep your um your fingers in a lot of different pies, as the saying goes.
00:26:36
Justin Jankus
um Fingers in pies or pots? What is it, pies or pots?
00:26:40
Abbey Harlow
and i think it And think it's pies because I think of Tom's thumb. Doesn't he have his finger in a pie? a plum pie.
00:26:49
Justin Jankus
Maybe, And pots would be really dangerous to put all your fingers in pots. if there' if there's Assuming that there's some something hot cooking in there. But that's where my brain goes.
00:26:56
Abbey Harlow
yes Or a snake.
00:26:58
Justin Jankus
he Yes, yes. Or a snake?
00:27:00
Abbey Harlow
Yes.
00:27:01
Justin Jankus
Why would a snake be in a pot?
00:27:04
Abbey Harlow
I don't know. Maybe I was going to get mixed up with baskets, but who knows? um
00:27:09
Justin Jankus
But but like thinking about that also, it it really behooves people to um take the time and look at the data, look at your engagement, look where your message is having the greatest impact, and then asking other people or asking a professional to say, how can we move this energy over to another platform? Because we think we might have some other people that we're not getting in touch with.
00:27:36
Justin Jankus
um And I think also like one of the sponsors of Winter Roots, Front Porch Forum, is another great kind of social media in a more long form and a more personal, hyper-local level.
00:27:48
Justin Jankus
um And finding those different organizations that are trying to get the word out um through it ah through different means is also really, really important.
00:28:00
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:01
Justin Jankus
Yeah.
00:28:03
Abbey Harlow
um So we have a question from somebody about photography, which I know is your, um your origin, your background of origin.
Nonprofit Photography Insights
00:28:14
Abbey Harlow
um They're saying, I am really struggling to take photos and and it's an important part of my work to have high quality photos for communications.
00:28:14
Justin Jankus
So,
00:28:22
Abbey Harlow
Can you give me tips for getting over the hump of asking people to pose and getting using usable marketing photos?
00:28:33
Justin Jankus
My background, um I went to school for photography um and I went to school for art photography specifically, just to kind of give a little bit of ah a grounding for that. um I hate post photos.
00:28:46
Justin Jankus
um And partially because I just never liked taking post photos. um But I also think, especially for marketing purposes, there's something...
00:28:58
Justin Jankus
wonderful about using candid photography for so photography that people are maybe not not be aware that you're taking the photo um or that you're just seeing them in their natural habitat posing I really only want to reserve personally I want to reserve when I'm on a um when I'm on an assignment um and I'm photographing I want poses only for like if they're going to be used for headshots, or maybe it's a whole group picture.
00:29:25
Justin Jankus
um I don't find them as compelling as maybe like finding looking over at somebody and seeing them mid-conversation and having a great time, or even just being contemplative. And if you can capture that moment, I think that's really impactful. um
00:29:43
Justin Jankus
It's tough when you don't have that, when you're not coming from it from a professional but ah perspective, and you're just, this is my day to day, need to have some images, I'm doing this all on my own.
00:29:55
Justin Jankus
And I think one thing people might think is that a photographer takes one image, and that's all they need to do. They find they find that perfect moment. um ends Nothing else matters. They don't need to do anything more. It's done. Bing, bang, boom, done. It's perfect. um i I thought that way for a long time. And i one of my favorite Canada photographers, this man named Gary Winogrand, who was prevalent in the 60s and 70s in New York City,
00:30:27
Justin Jankus
um One of the best candid photographers um somehow is able to capture these little moments in time as he's walking around on the street. um And they're beautiful. I have really, Gary with two Rs and only one N in Winogrand.
00:30:42
Justin Jankus
um Really beautiful, wonderful, weird stuff. um But I always thought, oh, he must be amazing at deciding, okay, that's the only image I'm going to take. Because mean remember, this is in the day of film where You only had 24 exposures before you had to change out your film again.
00:31:03
Justin Jankus
And I saw a documentary about him, about what he does in his day-to-day. And I think he was talking to the interviewer and the interviewer asked, like, oh, how many images do you take normally?
00:31:14
Justin Jankus
um And so he's in his apartment or in his studio and he bends down, opens up like a full-on like filing drawer and takes out a maybe half-gallon bag of exposed 35-millimeter rolls of film. He's like, I did this just this week.
00:31:33
Justin Jankus
So the idea that we're going to get that image just because we take one image and it's perfect is just dumb. Even the professionals, they take thousands of images. I think about when i when I'm at ah a shoot, if I'm taking um over a couple of hours, I might get up to 3,000 or 4,000 images. And then i when I deliver them, I deliver maybe 150 or maybe really at the start only 30 or 40.
00:31:59
Justin Jankus
um Editing is probably the most powerful tool you can use, when especially if you're you're the only one there. It's it's making sure that you you take a lot of images, get comfortable taking a lot of images, and then get comfortable being ruthless, absolutely ruthless about saying, that one's terrible. It's going in the trash. Or that one's wonderful. i want to hold on to that.
00:32:23
Justin Jankus
And then go through another process. like it's it's It's a whittling. um like any Editing is one of the most impactful and most important things that we can do um when we're taking photos is to make sure that we get a lot and then we can make actual choices versus having just to live with whatever result we got.
00:32:43
Abbey Harlow
Mm-hmm.
00:32:43
Justin Jankus
um other Other kind of like really quick tips um but on that same same length, not all your photos will be great. Be OK with that. You're going to get a couple that are wonderful.
00:32:55
Justin Jankus
They're going to be a ton that are terrible. Just accept that as a truth. Give yourself some grace and keep going. um But the other things you can do, like ah just if you're shooting on your phone, turning on the grid um so you see the lines, it lets you center people better. If you are doing more posed images, um allows you to see where negative space is. And that's a great place that I like to put text into um and really focus.
00:33:22
Justin Jankus
if you're getting like, if you're hung up and you feel like, Oh, I'm taking pictures of these people's faces and they're terrible. Like many of the images I've taken of my family, um, of them eating.
00:33:30
Abbey Harlow
Oh.
00:33:31
Justin Jankus
I love them. I love these pictures of people like really going whole hog into a sandwich, but they don't want to see this. I love them, but it sometimes faces are tough because there, there is a lot in there, but you can do some subtle things by maybe focusing on somebody's hands or focusing on a posture.
00:33:49
Justin Jankus
Um, Looking at those little things, like um I had a ah teacher that when he the he used a, ah this ah Stephen Shore, he uses camera. So that's a classic camera with the with the hood you put over your head and everything. um You have to really plan when you're doing that because you get two exposures maybe, maybe even only one.
00:34:16
Justin Jankus
um But what he would always do is he would take his time. He'd look at the image. He'd look at all the corners in the image and really try to see everything that was interacting in the image.
00:34:28
Justin Jankus
um And that's tough to do in the moment. But it does help to say, okay I have this camera in front of my face. Just for everybody that's listening at home, I put my hands up in the air to show that I'm holding ah holding something in my face.
00:34:40
Justin Jankus
um This camera's in your face. Move yourself around the camera. Move it back. Move it to the left, right. Move it up and down. See if there's a slightly different perspective that you're you're missing because you we naturally want to just bring it right up to our face and we're going to take everything from a head level.
00:34:58
Justin Jankus
Bend down, get move around, try to go from the side, lean, get uncomfortable. i it's they can make You can make some really fun images or they can be terrible, but it's good to kind of give yourself some some photo yoga, I guess, um as you're making your images.
00:35:14
Justin Jankus
um And then also, the last thing I'll say about it is... boom two Two last things. I got to make sure I really think before I speak on those.
00:35:23
Abbey Harlow
Well, then I have a follow-up question.
00:35:25
Justin Jankus
Okay, good. Cool, cool, cool, cool. So this is just because this ramble is going to go on even longer. It's great. um the
00:35:33
Justin Jankus
You need to, if somebody, not most people, almost almost everybody is not comfortable with the camera in their face. you have to work to make them feel comfortable.
00:35:43
Abbey Harlow
Thank you.
00:35:45
Justin Jankus
That means being happy, not feeling like ah not being like somebody on a like ah a photographer on a cruise where you're just shoving a camera in your face and then asking for $35 for a print of it.
00:35:56
Justin Jankus
um Make them comfortable. I know some photographers have done in the past where they'll... This is when they're really sitting with somebody and doing a project. They'll actually take a whole roll of film or in this case, a card of film um of images And there's actually no card in the camera at all. They just get the people used to the snapping sound or they get used to you being a presence in the room.
00:36:19
Justin Jankus
And then they start taking images as you're comfortable. um It'll make you more comfortable too. And you'll have more fun. And that's really the the last little point before we have our another diversion from Abby is have fun with it. Photography is a wonderful thing and so much fun.
00:36:36
Justin Jankus
um If you're having fun with it, if you're engaging with people, while you're taking those images, you're going to get better results.
00:36:45
Abbey Harlow
Yeah, thank you. That's just so, so helpful, um I'm sure to many. And a follow-up question I have to this is like, it's very specific. And you've been addressing a lot of this, but, you know, a lot of times when I think of maybe smaller organizations that...
00:37:03
Abbey Harlow
i don't know, don't, yeah, don't have a budget for photographer, don't really have, um maybe don't, haven't flexed their artistic eye sort of as much. um You know, I think of event photos where some of, an organization um like this might just say, here, here is a picture of a of a room of people to show you proof that the event happened, you know?
00:37:30
Abbey Harlow
um do you know what kind of photo I'm talking about? Just like a sort of proof of event photo um versus
00:37:34
Justin Jankus
Yes.
00:37:38
Justin Jankus
There's more of, there's more image, in the image itself, there's more of the floor than there actually is of people.
00:37:43
Abbey Harlow
Yes, or it's just like the whole group of people um just to show you, hey, there were people here.
00:37:47
Justin Jankus
Yes.
00:37:50
Abbey Harlow
what you know what What would be your first tip to sort of like help an organization get past that point?
Capturing Event Essence
00:38:00
Justin Jankus
i I really think, and this is something that I think I learned as I, i went through school doing it is taking more images and having a camera or having your phone ready to take images.
00:38:12
Justin Jankus
um the through Like many things, we the only thing only way we really get better at something is through practice. um And the only way we get more comfortable with something is by exposing ourselves to it more and more and more.
00:38:28
Justin Jankus
um So if you are that person on your team that is there to document things, Be that person. Fully go into that role.
00:38:38
Justin Jankus
um Don't try to hand it off to somebody who also has to speak or also has to make sure that the caterer at an event is delivering the food on time um or maybe they're checking somebody in. Having somebody dedicated to that so that's all they have to do, um I find, really helps in those situations.
00:38:57
Justin Jankus
um
00:39:00
Justin Jankus
Yeah, it's it's it's hard to get away from those those kind of group photo things. And those are really important documents as well. um It's just it's you always want to pair that with something that feels that a proof or it's the idea of um showing something versus telling somebody about something. That's something in in in art a lot is Do I want to show you my experience in this situation? Or do I want to tell you that I had this experience? You always want to show somebody because showing your like, think about show, like think about in school, like show and tell the showing part was always more fun because you're inviting people to look at you, interact with you, ask you questions.
00:39:45
Justin Jankus
Um, And we want to do that with our images. And that that also applies to stuff in print and and digital graphic design. We want people to we won't be able to interact with you and interact with the with the piece that you're putting in front of them.
00:40:03
Justin Jankus
So having a document and also having the feeling of the experience is makes both stronger. they can they go They work together to make it stronger.
00:40:13
Abbey Harlow
Yeah.
00:40:15
Justin Jankus
So it's it just behooves – I keep on saying behooves. It behooves your organization to really think about um why you're taking a photo of something um and what you really want, what the end piece is.
00:40:32
Justin Jankus
Intentionality.
Photo Permissions at Public Events
00:40:35
Abbey Harlow
Then our last official question is about permissions. um We've done a photo booth, this person says, at a street fair table. Can we use these photos on social media or in print without getting permission from the subjects? Does it have to be in writing?
00:40:53
Justin Jankus
Permission is a tricky thing. um we're working as the we I'm talking right now to a group of people that are working in nonprofits. And so the commercial aspect of something doesn't really apply. And that's really where you get into a lot of sticky legal situations, um is if you're taking a photograph somebody, even in a public space, and you use that for a commercial purposes. So it's like using an advertisement.
00:41:21
Justin Jankus
um
00:41:23
Justin Jankus
If you're in a public place, generally, people know that they might be photographed. um And if you're in a public space, photographing is OK. I think it helps and it it it makes it a you get a better result if you're upfront about asking permission to photograph.
00:41:44
Justin Jankus
um And that can be something like on a placard um at your table if you're at like ah like a street um like ah a street walk event or something like that, um you could have a thing saying, we're going to be taking images for our social media and for our marketing.
00:42:00
Justin Jankus
Just lets let you know um that that may they your images, your face might be in these. um It really helps to get ahead of that and do that from from the beginning.
00:42:12
Justin Jankus
um And then also making sure that if somebody doesn't want their image um to be shown, giving them an avenue to do that, whether it be, oh, if you have an a problem with one of these images, please just send us an email right here, and we'll take it down as quick as we can or not use it in any more further materials.
00:42:32
Justin Jankus
um Or make it so that if it's at like a a public event like a street fair, like making it so that they know who the point person is to say, oh, I don't want that image there. And making that clear on the same documentation says, we're going to take photos of you guys.
00:42:47
Justin Jankus
um
00:42:50
Justin Jankus
the that's that's kind of like the more passive way about it um the other thing i find is um making sure that one it's clear that you're part of an organization so whether that be shirts or coats or hats that are branded with your stuff um as you're taking photos or even just a name tag um making sure it's obvious that you are not just some rando taking photos, you're doing it for this organization.
00:43:20
Justin Jankus
um And then asking permission is totally OK. And it's better to ask for permission than be denied it, in my opinion, than to take the photo and then have this nasty kind of interaction because you then have to take it down and everything else.
00:43:36
Justin Jankus
um But generally, generally speaking, going back to the beginning, if you're at a public event, there is a um understanding that anybody at that public event is knowing that they're in public and so taking their image isn't an issue. um Yeah, and that's especially in these times with with ice and everything else, it it gets a little more sticky, but that's hopefully you're not using those for your promotional things.
00:44:04
Justin Jankus
Hopefully not. Yeah, that's what I would say.
00:44:05
Abbey Harlow
Okay.
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:44:10
Abbey Harlow
Well, Justin, thank you for the generosity and thoughtfulness and care and kindness you brought to this conversation. um Before we close, where can people find you or learn more about your work?
00:44:26
Justin Jankus
um Anybody can find me over at justinjankus.net. J-U-S-T-I-N-J-A-N-K-U-S dot net.
00:44:37
Justin Jankus
You can also find me, I mostly post on Instagram. um ah My but username is J-Jank, J-J-A-N-K. um But mostly if you're somewhere in Vermont, you might see me.
00:44:52
Justin Jankus
um I'm pretty outgoing for being a somewhat of an introvert at times. um But yeah, and and also you always reach out to me by either filling up the contact form contact formum on my website or just emailing me directly at justin.jankis at gmail.com.
00:44:58
Abbey Harlow
Bye.
00:45:10
Justin Jankus
um Yeah, but this is, i I'm absolutely blown away by all the, this is this is both ah ah happy husband the talking and also just being amazed by who Abby is. But I've been absolutely amazed about the reception that everybody is having.
00:45:28
Justin Jankus
having towards this whole ah learning activity, vi winter roots. um And I'm so happy and so proud to be a part of it. um And I'm so happy to to be able to talk to everybody. And I love having conversations with with everybody about anything. So reach out.
00:45:47
Abbey Harlow
That's true.
00:45:49
Justin Jankus
It's really true. It's really true. I was thinking about like ah ah back to a time when I think it was Abby and I one of our our first sets of dates. We took my motorcycle ah down to Newport from Boston to go to the Newport Folk Festival. And I think I was swimming.
00:46:05
Justin Jankus
Um, I was swimming in the lake.
00:46:07
Abbey Harlow
forgot about this.
00:46:08
Justin Jankus
yeah I guess forgot about this. I was swimming in the lake um ah that was at our campsite. And I started up a conversation with somebody about what biodegradable soaps were or something like that.
00:46:20
Abbey Harlow
Oh.
00:46:21
Justin Jankus
Abby could hear me having the conversation from our tent site the entire time because I was talking so loudly and so effusively to this random stranger that was right next to me at like 10 o'clock in the morning.
00:46:32
Justin Jankus
But do you remember exactly what the conversation was about, Abby?
00:46:32
Abbey Harlow
but I remember that, but then I also remember another time where we were swimming there and you waved at someone because you thought they were waving to you, somebody you didn't know was swimming, also swimming.
00:46:46
Justin Jankus
Yeah,
00:46:48
Abbey Harlow
They were like waving to someone they actually knew, but you thought they were just like, hey, kindred spirit, let's chat.
00:46:53
Justin Jankus
yeah.
00:46:54
Abbey Harlow
It's very sweet. Okay.
00:46:55
Justin Jankus
I do that way too much and it makes me feel very awkward most of the time because he usually doesn't end up to being somebody I know, but I'll still wait back.
00:46:57
Abbey Harlow
i hold it's very sweet
00:47:04
Abbey Harlow
Well, you can connect with me, Abby Harlow, on LinkedIn or visit harlownprofitconsulting.com. That's where you can also learn more about Winter Roots, join the mailing list, um be the first to know about future gatherings. I've got some exciting things coming up in 2026. And that also includes Winter Roots 2027. It'll be the place to find out about that.
00:47:30
Abbey Harlow
So I'll put Justin's info and all of this in the show notes as well. um So you can take what you need from there. And yeah, thanks so much, Justin. And thanks everybody for listening.
00:47:42
Justin Jankus
Thank you so much, everybody. was Again, a pleasure.
00:47:46
Abbey Harlow
Have a great day.
00:47:47
Justin Jankus
Oh, you