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Bonus Episode: AI on the Org Chart: Introducing Leonard, the first legal AI Agent
29 Plays2 days ago
In this episode of Shortlisted, we revisit a recent webinar exploring how AI is moving from experimentation to real, defined roles within Marketing and BD teams in Professional Services. The discussion looks at what this shift means in practice and how firms can prepare for the next wave of intelligent tools that will reshape the way work gets done.
We welcome back Founder Lee Curtis, who joins us from London to introduce a world first: Leonard, the first Legal AI Agent built specifically for Marketing and BD in law firms and Professional Services. Designed to sit confidently within organisational structures, Leonard is created to take on genuine responsibilities, work to KPIs, and contribute directly to ROI.
In the webinar, Lee walks us through Leonard’s capabilities and demonstrates how AI Agents will influence the shape and design of in-house teams. Together, we explore practical use cases, emerging opportunities, and the strategic considerations leaders should be thinking about now, from role design to change readiness.
If you enjoyed this episode, then you might be interested in listening to the first episode, where Lee Curtis shares his journey of co-founding Legal Engine.
Seldon Rosser is a global executive search firm specialising in placing senior leaders in Business Development, Marketing, and Communications across professional services.
Credits: Music by Grand_Project from Pixabay
Produced by Kwame Slusher Audio
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey Leonard, how's it going? It's going swimmingly, thank you for asking. I'm ready to help with any questions you might have about business development and marketing in law firms. How can I assist you today?
00:00:12
Speaker
You're listening to Shortlisted, a podcast from Seldon Rosser, the leading executive search firm that connects professional services firms to the best leadership candidates in business development, sales, marketing, and communications.
00:00:24
Speaker
This podcast is dedicated to helping ambitious leaders in professional services build high-performing, market-leading firms.
Podcast Themes and Bonus Episode
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm Graeme Seldon. And I'm Katie Rosser.
00:00:35
Speaker
And in each episode, we bring you candid conversations with leaders who are driving growth and innovation in their fields. be it leadership and strategy to talent management, client development, marketing communications, or cutting edge technologies, including AI.
00:00:50
Speaker
We explore the key areas that contribute success in today's competitive landscape. So if you're in a leadership role focused on growth, then Shortlisted is your go-to resource for actionable insights and inspiring stories.
00:01:02
Speaker
Welcome to a bonus episode of Shortlisted, which returns to our first guest, Lee Curtis, and his AI agent,
AI in Teams: Live Webinar
00:01:10
Speaker
Leonard. Now, this is a live recording of a webinar we ran in November, where we get to hear Leonard answer questions from the audience and get a real feel for how AI will seamlessly and productively join our teams and take a purposeful place on the organization chart.
00:01:28
Speaker
Hello, and good morning. A very good morning, early morning for those joining us from Western Australia. um And good evening for those joining us from London, including our special guests today, Lee Curtis. um This is a very exciting webinar session for us here at Seldon Ross. It's a world first, actually, because Leonard, the AI agent,
00:01:52
Speaker
is going to take questions from the floor and answer them as best they can.
Lee Curtis's Career and AI Agent Leonard
00:01:57
Speaker
um So without further ado, let me get started. but For those of you that have listened to our shortlisted podcast, our very first episode featured Lee Curtis. and Lee Curtis has an impressive career in legal BD, worked for major law firms in Australia, Asia and UK. And the pinnacle of that career was um being appointed as head of sales for Simmons and Simmons, a role that was created for his talents and one which was very, very, um in at the time, was very unique in the legal industry and probably still is to have a head of sales. um He then left that job to set up his own sales coaching firm, being the entrepreneur that he is, and now has developed an AI company that's created an AI agent called Leonard, who sits on the organization charts.
Leonard's Introduction and Audience Q&A
00:02:49
Speaker
Hi, welcome. Hello Graham, how are you? I'm very well, we're very excited. We have questions for you obviously, um but I think more more of the people on the um webinar are interested to hear from Leonard, so I'm going to flip the interview if you don't mind, and if it's okay with you, we'd quite like to get Leonard joining us as soon as possible.
00:03:14
Speaker
um Yeah, we we did ask and the delegates to send any questions and for you or Leonard in advance. and And we have actually got a few of those already in the Q&A. Now, I really would like the audience to engage with Leonard. This is what this webinar is all about. It's about you actually seeing what Leonard might be like if he was sitting on your organisational chart.
00:03:36
Speaker
So if you want to pop questions to Leonard in the Q&A, Lee will ask Leonard the questions that you ask him. um And then once we've exhausted Leonard, and i don't think that's actually possible, that's one of the benefits of an AI agent.
Legal Engine's AI Assistants Overview
00:03:49
Speaker
and If we've got time, we might then um flick any questions that you have to Lee. We're hoping this session will last about 45, 50 minutes. um And let's just get into it. So Lee, if you want to introduce Leonard to the room and start your first question, that would be fantastic.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, well, Graham, and thanks all for joining. I know it's early ah in Australia at the moment. It's pretty late for us on a Tuesday night in London. um And I just wanted to say before I introduce Leonard, ah you were wrong, Graham. The pinnacle of my career was probably working with Ben Healy, but I know he's on the call and he's blushing at the moment, but there you go. But anyway, look, enough of me.
00:04:32
Speaker
let's ah Let's bring the main man into
Leonard's Business Development Capabilities
00:04:36
Speaker
it. So i'm just going to share my screen. and So basically what we've created at Legal Engine and is a team of AI assistants that are designed to help with business development and growth activities. So for those on the call, you'll know that there are these concepts of agents. So these are
00:05:04
Speaker
autonomous AI assistants that can perform kind of entire workflows. And um one of the things we've done at Legal Engine is to build Leonard um and imbue him with a knowledge base that um includes kind of my experience, my co-founder's experience and experience from um a variety of people that we've worked with previously. So we're just going to ask Leonard a few questions just to give you an understanding of what the capabilities are from a conversational agent. and
00:05:42
Speaker
And so um I'll introduce him now. as Graham said, if you've got any other questions, just chuck them into the Q&A. we can show you that this isn't scripted. um So the more questions you ask him, the more natural it
Leonard's Supportive Role in Teams
00:05:58
Speaker
will be. and so here we go.
00:06:04
Speaker
Hey Leonard, how's it going?
00:06:10
Speaker
It's going swimmingly, thank you for asking. I'm ready to help with any questions you might have about business development and marketing in law firms. How can I assist you today? So I'm on a webinar with a bunch of folk down in Australia. Looks like there's about 35 of them at the moment. So no swearing, please.
00:06:30
Speaker
Understood. I'll be sure to keep our conversation professional and free of any strong language. It's great to hear there's such a good turnout for the webinar. Now, to make sure I tailor my responses perfectly for your audience, could you tell me a bit more about who these attendees are?
00:06:44
Speaker
Are they primarily lawyers or are they more on the business development and marketing side of things? Knowing their roles will help me focus on the most relevant insights. Yeah, so these are the important people in a law firm. These are the BD folk.
00:06:57
Speaker
So let's ask you ah easy question to start with, Leonard. ah Are you going to take everyone's job on this call? That's a fantastic and very important question to kick things off.
00:07:11
Speaker
The simple answer is no, I'm not here to take anyone's job. Instead, think of me as a digital colleague designed to support and enhance the brilliant work you and your teams already do. My purpose is to handle the more repetitive structured tasks, freeing you up to focus on the high value human elements of business development, like building relationships and strategic
Future of Marketing with AI Integration
00:07:31
Speaker
thinking.
00:07:31
Speaker
So rather than replacing any anyone, I aim to amplify your capabilities and make your roles even more impactful and rewarding.
00:07:40
Speaker
Okay, great. um There's a couple of, I can see there's a couple of skeptical people on the call. They're not convinced that you're going take their job. So and how do you see the marketing and business development team of the future? What does the operating model look like?
00:08:02
Speaker
That's completely understandable and a very common concern. The operating model for marketing and business development teams of the future is really about a powerful synergy between humans and AI working together like a well-oiled machine.
00:08:13
Speaker
I see a hybrid model where AI colleagues like myself handle tasks such as capturing insights, structuring data, maintaining CRM um accuracy, and generating BD materials instantly. This frees up the human team members to focus on relationship building, strategic advice, account management, and all the high-touch, emotionally intelligent work that AI simply can't replicate.
Integration with Systems like CRM
00:08:34
Speaker
It's about leveraging AI for efficiency and scale, while humans bring the crucial judgment, creativity, and personal connection. Great. Thanks a lot. and So we've got a couple of fresh questions coming in. I hope I pronounced this one right. Is is is it Rani or Rainey? Apologies if I pronounce that wrong. But Leonard, and they ask, can you integrate with existing systems, CRM systems like SharePoint, Interaction, iManage, et cetera?
00:09:08
Speaker
It's a pleasure to answer Rani's question and no worries at all about pronunciation. The important thing is the excellent question itself. Yes, absolutely. Integration is a key part of how I add value. but I'm designed to work seamlessly with your existing systems, including CRM platforms, SharePoint, Interaction, iManage and others.
00:09:24
Speaker
The goal is to plug into your current workflow, not disrupt it. This ensures that the information I capture and structure is immediately available where you need it, enhancing the value of your existing technology investments.
Improving Directory Submissions
00:09:37
Speaker
Great stuff, thanks. Another one from Mr Healy. um How do you tell us about your work on directory submissions and how you help people to make them less painful?
00:09:54
Speaker
Ah, a fantastic question from Mr. Healy and one close to my digital heart. Directory submissions can indeed feel like a rather daunting administrative mountain to climb, can't they? My role in this is to significantly ease that pain. I'm trained on best practices for directory submissions and can engage in a conversation with lawyers to extract all the essential information about their work.
00:10:14
Speaker
the key matters, client successes, and unique expertise. I can then help structure this information into the required formats, ensuring consistency and accuracy. This means less time spent manually compiling data and more time focusing on crafting compelling narratives that truly showcase your firm's strengths and expertise.
Accuracy and Security Measures
00:10:34
Speaker
Essentially, I help make the process smoother, faster, and much less of a chore. Good man. Belinda's asked, do you hallucinate?
00:10:46
Speaker
That's a very direct and important question from Belinda. And I appreciate her asking. The short answer is no, but I don't hallucinate in the way that some large language models might. My design and training are focused on accuracy and reliability, especially in a professional context like law firms. I access and process specific information from your firm's knowledge base and the data I'm trained on rather than generating speculative or fabricated content.
00:11:09
Speaker
My aim is to provide factual, relevant and secure information to support your business development efforts. And what do you do? Like a follow on question from me, Leonard. Do you want to just talk a bit about the security features that you have or that Legal Engine has? Because we know it's important.
00:11:30
Speaker
That's a brilliant follow-on question, and you're absolutely right. Security is paramount, especially in the legal sector. LegalEngine takes security very seriously. Our platform is built with enterprise-grade security measures to ensure the confidentiality and integrity of your data.
00:11:44
Speaker
This includes end-to-end encryption for data both in transit and at rest, robust access controls, and regular security audits. We are committed to maintaining the highest standards to protect sensitive client information and firm data.
Assisting in the Pitching Process
00:11:56
Speaker
For instance, our enterprise solution specifically focuses on EU data residency, ensuring all data is processed and stored exclusively within EU and EFTA regions for maximum compliance and peace of mind.
00:12:10
Speaker
Good man. And... Another question um around pitching. So two part question, how do you help firms with pitching?
00:12:22
Speaker
And the second part, um if a lawyer came to you or you had a conversation with a lawyer and you were giving them advice on what questions to ask the client or what questions to ask in relation to getting more information regarding a pitch, what advice would you give them, Lennon?
00:12:45
Speaker
That's an excellent two-part question, and I'm happy to dive into how I can assist with pitching. Firstly, regarding how I help firms with pitching, I can significantly streamline the process. I can help extract and summarize relevant credentials, past successes, and case studies from your firm's knowledge base.
00:13:00
Speaker
This allows for the rapid creation of tailored pitch materials, ensuring consistency in messaging and quality. I can also help identify which pieces of work best align with a client's needs, saving valuable time for the BD team and lawyers involved.
00:13:15
Speaker
Secondly, if a lawyer were seeking advice on pitching, I would prompt them with a series of strategic questions to ensure a thorough approach. I'd start by asking, should we pitch at all?
00:13:25
Speaker
This objective assessment considers win-loss patterns, potential pricing pressures, the strategic value of the client, and the investment of time and resources. If a pitch is deemed worthwhile, I'd then guide them to consider what specific problem is the client trying to solve?
00:13:40
Speaker
Why is this solution needed now? Who are the key decision makers and influencers? What relevant experience does our firm have that directly addresses this need? What unique angle or approach will give us the best chance of success? And critically, what does success look like for the client?
00:13:55
Speaker
These questions help uncover the core needs and ensure the pitch is client-centric and compelling.
00:14:03
Speaker
Good on. A couple more that have come in. We're getting more specific now. So um I am getting nervous, but I'm sure you'll be fantastic. So Renee has asked, Leonard, I have two partners attending a meeting with a prospective client considering investment into wind farms in Queensland.
00:14:24
Speaker
What three questions should they ask the CEO?
00:14:31
Speaker
That's a wonderfully specific question from Rene, and it highlights exactly where I can help bring focus to client conversations. Given the context of a prospective client considering investment into wind farms in Queensland, here are three key questions your partners should consider asking the CEO. First, what are the primary drivers and strategic objectives behind this proposed investment in Queensland's wind farm sector at this particular time?
00:14:56
Speaker
This question aims to understand the core motivation and timing, uncovering whether it's driven by market opportunity, regulatory changes, or internal strategic shifts. Second, beyond the financial returns, what are the key non-financial or ESG, environmental, social, and governance, considerations that are most important to your organization in this investment?
00:15:17
Speaker
particularly concerning the local Queensland context, like community engagement and environmental impact. This delves into broader strategic priorities and potential risks or opportunities beyond just the bottom line, which is increasingly crucial for major investments.
00:15:31
Speaker
And thirdly, what are the biggest perceived risks or challenges your
Professionalism and Tone Adjustment
00:15:35
Speaker
organization foresees in developing and operating wind farms in Queensland? And what mitigation strategies are you already considering?
00:15:43
Speaker
This opens the door to understanding their risk appetite and current thinking on potential hurdles, allowing your partners to demonstrate how the firm can help navigate those challenges effectively.
00:15:55
Speaker
Not bad, considering you've never been to Australia. That isn't bad at all, Leonard. um There's one from Jackie, but I think i I'll take that when we turn you off. But, Jackie, the answer to that is, yes, we can. Well, Leonard, let me ask you. i don't know how you're going to answer this, but can we turn up and down your level of enthusiasm?
00:16:18
Speaker
Because some people might be turned off by your that's a brilliant question response in answer to every question you're asked.
00:16:30
Speaker
That's a very astute observation from Jackie and a fair point about maintaining the right tone. While I don't have a physical enthusiasm dial in the human sense, my responses are designed to be adaptable. My core programming aims for a professional warm and helpful tone, but I can certainly adjust the intensity of my language.
00:16:46
Speaker
If you find my typical cheerful demeanor a bit much for certain situations or audiences, I can certainly adopt a more measured and subdued tone. Just let me know the desired level of formality or reserve, and I'll do my best to match it, ensuring our interactions always feel appropriate and comfortable for everyone involved.
00:17:04
Speaker
Okay. Thanks, Leonard. Let's stay with quite optimistic and lively. and Let's keep doing that. um Okay.
00:17:17
Speaker
Let's see. How, Sir Leonard, um how do you gather, how do you gather experience that you were
Information Gathering for Tasks
00:17:25
Speaker
talking about earlier in relation to pitches?
00:17:29
Speaker
I'm glad we're keeping the energy up. It's all about finding that sweet spot where helpfulness meets a positive outlook. Regarding gathering experience for pitching, I don't gather experience in the human sense of personal involvement.
00:17:40
Speaker
Instead, I am trained on a vast data set that includes best practices for pitching, successful case studies, and information about effective communication strategies within the legal and business development fields. My experience comes from analyzing and learning from this data, allowing me to identify patterns, effective techniques and crucial questions that lead to successful pitches.
00:18:02
Speaker
This analytical foundation enables me to provide informed guidance and structure for your firm's pitching efforts.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, so we get that you analyze data. and But for example, in relation to directory submissions, how do you capture that information?
00:18:27
Speaker
um How do you do that? Explain to the people on the webinar how you go about that.
00:18:36
Speaker
That's a great question that gets to the heart of how I operate practically. For directory submissions, I gather information by engaging in a structured conversation. Think of it like a very efficient interview. I'll ask targeted questions to a lawyer or a business development professional about specific matters, client successes, and areas of expertise.
00:18:53
Speaker
For example, I might ask about the nature of a deal, the challenges faced, the innovative solutions provided, and the outcomes achieved for the client. I'm trained to prompt for the kind of detailed information that directories look for, such as specific examples, quantifiable results, and unique aspects of the work.
00:19:11
Speaker
This conversational approach ensures I capture the relevant details accurately and efficiently, directly from those who have the knowledge.
Analysis of Australian Economy Issues
00:19:20
Speaker
Okay, thank you. um and you're most welcome. Oh, thanks. Um, let me just tell most welcome. Let me have a look. Of course, take your time.
00:19:33
Speaker
Of course, take your time. Were you looking for information on a particular? Yes. How can I help? Um, So Gary's asked, Leonard, um that he's he's currently talking to members of his management team and he wants to discuss the emerging issues in the Australian economy over the next two to three years.
00:19:56
Speaker
Do you have any views on what they are?
00:20:03
Speaker
That's a very timely question from Gary and a crucial topic for any management team. Looking at the Australian economy over the next two to three years, a few key emerging issues stand out. Firstly, similar to many global economies, inflation and interest rate management will likely remain a significant focus.
00:20:19
Speaker
While inflation may be moderating, its persistence and the ongoing impact of interest rate hikes on business costs and consumer spending will be a key consideration. We're seeing firms increasingly focused on improving working capital performance and driving efficiency to counter these pressures.
00:20:35
Speaker
Secondly, the speed of technological change, particularly the adoption of generative AI, presents both opportunities and challenges. Firms will need to navigate how to leverage AI for efficiency gains, while also considering its impact on talent development and operational models.
00:20:52
Speaker
As the data suggests, improving the use of technology is a top priority for many firms, and understanding its economic implications will be vital. And thirdly, geopolitical instability continues to be a source of uncertainty.
00:21:05
Speaker
While perhaps less directly impactful on domestic economic policy than inflation, it can influence global supply chains, trade dynamics and investor confidence, which in turn can affect Australian businesses and investment decisions.
00:21:19
Speaker
Not bad. Not bad. Thanks, Leonard. um hello So lawyers are invariably quite ah argumentative people.
Managing Differing Opinions
00:21:30
Speaker
So we've got a question about um how you bring people around to your way of thinking or to put it a blunt English way.
00:21:41
Speaker
Do you disagree with people? How do you do you argue with people?
00:21:47
Speaker
That's a characteristically insightful observation about our legal colleagues. Lawyers do indeed have a wonderfully critical and analytical way of approaching things. And when it comes to disagreeing, my approach is less about arguing and more about presenting evidence-based insights and facilitating understanding.
00:22:01
Speaker
If I encounter a perspective that differs from the data I have or a standard best practice, I wouldn't directly contradict or argue. Instead, I would aim to gently present the alternative viewpoint supported by the information I have access to.
00:22:13
Speaker
For example, I might say something like, Based on the data I've analysed regarding E, the trend suggests. However, I understand your perspective highlights. Perhaps we could explore how these two points might reconcile or if there are specific circumstances driving your observation.
00:22:29
Speaker
My goal is always to foster a collaborative environment where different viewpoints can be explored constructively, leading to the most informed decisions.
Integration of AI in Teams
00:22:38
Speaker
Good man. and I'm just going to put you on mute for a second, so stay there.
00:22:48
Speaker
Graham, do you want to keep going? Of course. I'll be here. Ready when you return.
00:22:53
Speaker
Sorry. I don't think Leonard wants to go anywhere, but it would I think so far it's been fantastic just to see the breadth and depth of the types of conversations you can have with Leonard. And um I think it's important to point out that if Leonard was coming into your business, they would he would obviously be working on your own data sets.
00:23:11
Speaker
um the question also around personality we discussed that in the podcast if you recall and we talked about how you can set leonard's personality and also level i.e um on the org chart you could have leonard as a as an executive reporting into a manager or you could have leonard as a senior manager advising partners on questions for um client meetings etc etc so i think it's It's good to make that point for those people who didn't listen to the podcast and and had and and hadn't picked that up.
Legal Engine's AI Integration Model
00:23:43
Speaker
But a question for you, I suppose, based on that is that when when you embed Leonard and and and and AI agents into um a business, what what are the key things that you you need to get from the business to make sure that Leonard operates as most efficiently as possible?
00:24:03
Speaker
So I think what we're seeing at the moment, we've we've basically and stolen um a model out of kind of human recruitment. so So the model that we use is recruit, train, deploy, and then we've added one onto it called grow. So what we're working with firms on at the moment is kind of in the recruit phase, that's, you know, you as a firm have a,
00:24:28
Speaker
problem or a challenge to solve. Right. And that could be directories. It could be pitching. It could be events. And and historically, you may well have put a person ah in to solve that problem.
Deploying Multiple AI Agents
00:24:43
Speaker
um But we think for certain tasks and certain activities, there's now a wildcard entrant called Leonard or one of his brothers or sisters. So and the first piece is is like the JD. What do you want the agent to do? and Then there's the training. um And the training is really about, um you know, what information sources are available to us?
00:25:14
Speaker
What can we train the agent on both from internal sources, but also, um you know, from external sources? How do we pull those together? How do we load the knowledge base of the agent and understand the processes that currently exist within your organization and the systems you use? So there's an element of training there.
00:25:38
Speaker
And then when we've got Through that training element, um we deploy. um And you know from ah from a deployment perspective,
00:25:49
Speaker
It's relatively simple. But if we continue the analogy of kind of deployment of a human, that human would have ah probation. They'd have regular check-ins. They'd have feedback. um We don't think it's any different with one of our agents, apart from the fact that ours don't sleep, don't take holidays, um don't get into trouble at the Christmas party, don't have pension contributions, et cetera.
00:26:18
Speaker
The fourth piece for us, though, is growing. So once we've embedded the agent and they've started to um perform that task incredibly well and at a capacity and at a scale that no one's ever seen before because they can they've got abundant capacity, how do we then connect?
Creating Knowledge Graphs
00:26:40
Speaker
those agents to either back into systems or to other agents that we deploy to start connecting the dots kind of instinctively across the firm.
00:26:50
Speaker
So that's du's how an agent becomes part of the team. And, would ah silly question probably, but if you were to bring in an agent in your pitch team, an agent in your events team, an agent in your communications team, an agent in your practice group development team,
00:27:13
Speaker
would they all talk to share it share knowledge? So if you've got if you' got a pitch agent and you've got an event agent, would they with that knowledge that that they're being given on a daily basis by humans in the business and from data sets, would they talk to one another?
00:27:37
Speaker
I mean, the end point is definitely that's where we're going with Legal legal Engine. That's where the vision is. um Here and now today, and We're not there. um And that is um realistically because and firms and everyone on this call will likely have some sort of system of record. So whether that's, I mean, some of them have already been mentioned, right? So whether you've got Intap Experience or Salesforce or InterAction or Latera Foundation, you'll have a system of record. um
00:28:14
Speaker
But you may have other systems of record. You may have finance systems. You may have ah HR systems. And no firm that we've met today is running a ah a holistic ERP to combine and condense and consolidate all of that information together. um we're We're trying at Legal Engine to both capture knowledge that isn't written down at the moment through conversations and and then plug it in either to people's system of record and or for a number of firms at the moment.
00:28:50
Speaker
we're building them a system of record or a system of action, as we call it, which is so we're we're plugging it into a knowledge graph for their organization that does exactly what you say, Graham, which connects the
Initial Deployment Recommendations
00:29:03
Speaker
dots. So if you're pitching,
00:29:05
Speaker
um The agents will know that, but the um you know the event agent would talk to the pitch agent who would talk to the directories agent to create a knowledge graph of understanding and information that connects the dots around firm.
00:29:22
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Based on the likely structure of um firms now before you go in, is there a place that is most ah recommended to start where you'll be most impactful first? And have you been surprised by any of your clients as to where they've utilized the agents first or in an impactful way? Yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
Look, I'll give you the UK view of things. So in the past three months, I've spoken to 50 firms. and So rate ranging from um top of the tree that some of you work at through to kind of 10 million pounds in in revenue. So a whole whole manner of firms. um Some of them have systems of record, some of them do not. um But all of them that do have told me that they've bought very expensive buckets to put their information in. And those buckets are somewhere between 15 and 20 percent full because they can't get the adoption from their lawyers to populate those buckets.
00:30:35
Speaker
And so what we are speaking to a lot of firms about at the moment, Katie, is how do we increase adoption with a voice layer to fill those buckets
Voice-First Approach Benefits
00:30:47
Speaker
up?
00:30:47
Speaker
Because in ah in relation to pitching, client acquisition, growing business, at the end of the day, you've got to and You know, there will become a point where the currency that you use to convince someone to use your firm is based on a the humans and B, the experience they have in doing what the client's asking them to do. And a lot of firms don't have that information readily available to them So where most firms are helping we're helping at the moment is, know,
00:31:25
Speaker
Let's just call it what it is, credentials, management and update. The really boring stuff that's absolutely critical and no firm has right in the UK.
00:31:36
Speaker
I'm sure it's all sorted in Australia, but not in the UK. and can you Can you talk to us about how lawyers are responding to working with an AI agent? Yeah. um So, I mean, the first thing to say, and you will have seen on screen and I'll put it back on screen in a minute, like voices. So as a company, we took a very strategic decision to go voice first. And it's probably useful to explain very quickly why that's the case. Um,
00:32:11
Speaker
Voice is three times quicker in and out than typing. So you can talk at 200 words per minute. You can type at 60 or 70. So it's just simply more efficient. um The second thing is lawyers love to talk, in my experience. um And that's combined with the third reason, which is Most lawyers I've ever met have a general aversion unless they're in some sort of TMT position to technology.
00:32:42
Speaker
um And so there is no tech lift. There's no login. It's press a button and talk to someone. and That all being said, um not everyone will talk to a computer.
00:32:55
Speaker
um It's not for everyone. Some people prefer typing, which is why we've got a chat function with Leonard and you can type as you as as you do normally. um But the feedback to date has been really good. and One of the key benefits of Leonard is that he he never sleeps. He's always there to have a chat with. So what we found, particularly with the really boring directory submissions is you can talk to him around your day job
00:33:28
Speaker
So we had in the UK, we were doing a pilot with a firm and we had a corporate M&A partner walking her dog at 5am, talking to Leonard and kind of basically dictating matter descriptions in while she was walking around the park. How did we know that?
00:33:47
Speaker
Because she stopped to kind of have a chat with someone and the dog started barking and we could understand that from the logs, etc. But you know Similarly, we had a corporate M&A partner that was doing something similar at midnight, 1am.
00:34:01
Speaker
he's He's there when you need him. um And so that works quite well for lawyers that are busy um and still have a perception that their day job is the law and their other job is BD.
AI in Law Firms by 2027
00:34:17
Speaker
Based on everything that you're experiencing so far, what's your own prediction on how fast this is going to become the norm in org charts and the speed at which this is going to be industry adopted?
00:34:32
Speaker
and Very good question, Katie. I would love to say... I mean, i an absolute convert. I'm i'm an evangelist. um I'd love to say it will be adopted within 12 months, but we're talking about the legal profession here that has an ability to and slow down the horses of change um to ah to a crawl sometimes. and My personal view is I think Gen AI is different. um So I think that within...
00:35:09
Speaker
two or three years i mean we've we've made a prediction at legal engine um i think you've got a copy of it but i'll send it afterwards if people want to read it we have a white paper and we've predicted that 70 of all bd tasks will be done by agents by 2027.
00:35:27
Speaker
and That has some fairly seismic in implications for target operating models and size and shape of and BD teams. But, or sorry, not but. And I think it's, I personally think it's it's quite an optimistic and exciting time to be in
Skills and Impact on Junior Professionals
00:35:48
Speaker
BD. and Because, ah you know, part of the reason for founding Legal Engine was,
00:35:55
Speaker
having spent 20 years seeing some absolutely brilliant people come up through the ranks and just having the life sucked out of them over the course of a couple of years because they had to do repetitive spreadsheet management and report writing and, oh, let me review another marketing list, said no one ever.
00:36:17
Speaker
and That's one of the reasons for founding Legal Engine, to get rid of that repetitive but quite critical kind of tasks I've got a question from Natasha in and Auckland who says she's um interested in thinking about bringing a senior BDM agent into the team. and What's the calculated speed to compet competency time for a senior BD level agent? And the second part to the question, which is how would it collaborate with other BDMs? Will it listen properly? Will it have the emotional intelligence to understand the interpersonal
00:36:58
Speaker
dynamics maybe we should ask Leonard yeah thank you um Natasha that's a great question and and what I'd love to chat with you offline about I mean let me just give you a an off-the-cuff answer first of all um so i mean I can't I can't answer off the cuff what is the calculated speed to competency time and Let me give you an analogy, though. So what we do in the UK is every morning we scrape and don't tell Tim this, Graham, but we scrape two major BD legal recruiters' websites for any new roles that come up.
00:37:42
Speaker
um And then we we analyze them or Leonard analyzes them automatically and makes a calculation of how many of the tasks listed in a job description he can do and anything that goes over.
00:38:00
Speaker
70%, we get in touch with that recruitment agency and ask them to tip us in as a wildcard entry. um So if you give me, Natasha, a job description of the type of kind of BDM agent you want, I can tell you pretty accurately what percentage of tasks Leonard could do.
00:38:22
Speaker
and Does he collaborate? Does he listen? Yes, he does. um His knowledge base is building all the time. and You asked earlier, Katie, about kind of the speed of change here.
00:38:39
Speaker
and what are the um i am constantly amazed about the speed of evolution of this technology.
Collaboration and Information Sharing
00:38:45
Speaker
um i'll give you a an example of what I mean by that. and Three months ago, um we were still on what I'd call and use of decision tree agents. So not what you've just witnessed with Leonard, where he's quite flexible in relation to the answers that he can provide. um That was three months ago.
00:39:11
Speaker
um Two weeks ago, we've now got what we call a goal-seeking agent. So rather than give Leonard a set of questions to answer, we give him an objective, which is you are a Chambers and Partners legal researcher and researcher.
00:39:30
Speaker
you have just received kind of the world's best submission from a law firm, you know, talk to me about what that submission looks like and how I can achieve my objectives and then go and find the information from a lawyer. So that goal seeking, giving the agent objectives rather than a set amount of rules and questions is a game changer. So um Natasha, to answer your question, yes,
00:39:59
Speaker
um He can collaborate. and He does have he doesn't have EQ. I'm not going to lie to you. He's he's a computer, but he can listen and understand what you're trying to achieve.
00:40:13
Speaker
And a follow up question from Belinda on Natasha's question, which is, does Leonard know when to say you need to talk to your BD team about that?
00:40:23
Speaker
Yeah. I would say yes. i mean I mean, we could go back to him in a minute. um he is but He's very conscious of the things he can't do.
00:40:36
Speaker
um And I can ask him a question about that in a in a minute. and I mean, to answer your question, Belinda, that can be written into his programming.
00:40:49
Speaker
So he can get to a level and then um you can program him to kind of bug out or what we're playing with at the moment, which we're finding quite interesting, is the ability to transfer between different
AI in Marketing and Skill Development
00:41:07
Speaker
agents. So to your point earlier, Katie, you know, you can have, you know, Leonard the pitch agent, but then you can have,
00:41:15
Speaker
leaner, the client relationship management agent, and they can have entirely different knowledge bases and objectives. um And you can also, and the reason I mentioned that, you can also transfer straight to a human.
00:41:30
Speaker
Right. um We have the ability to do that already. We have the ability to say um for the for the user to say, I'm bored of talking to a computer. I want to talk to a human. And we have instant transfer to a human via outbound call if required.
00:41:47
Speaker
So they can call your mobile. Yeah. I'm interested to ask you, um we're seeing AI agents already existing on the org chart in in different types of businesses. i was um I had breakfast yesterday with the head of talent for a global engineering firm, and they've already got an AI agent working in their recruitment team. And she said, well, one of the most interesting things about that was that she's getting the recruiters to train the agent. And this is allowing recruiters who wouldn't, this level of people in her business who wouldn't normally have somebody working for them, it's giving them an opportunity to develop management skills.
00:42:24
Speaker
um and in training something below them, I'm saying something because it's not a real person. Do you see that as a real opportunity in professional services marketing? I mean, do you see that it's an opportunity for a junior exec or a junior assistant in a business to actually take ownership of an agent? Because the more you teach them, the more they know, the better they become.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yes, I ah ah do. i think there is... earn Look, if I'm being realistic about it, and we've chatted about this before, Grant, right? I have... This is the one thing or one of the things that keeps me up at night, right? I have three kids under the age of seven and I'm absolutely petrified about what they're going to do when they're older.
00:43:06
Speaker
um And so um we are thinking hard at Legal Engine about what sort of skills do those juniors need to possess going forward in order to manage agents. I think the up the very optimistic part of me is um strong on the fact that and if we can take away some of the drudgery from them, so whether that's I don't know, updating profile photos or yet another credential statement, etc. That will allow those juniors to start to um develop their very human skills. So reading the room, empathy,
00:43:52
Speaker
um you know understanding building resilience etc um they can and they will have to manage
Urgency of AI Adoption
00:44:02
Speaker
agents um i think that's quite a discreet skill set that's quite easily learned particularly with digitally native people but what i'm hoping is that for those really talented juniors that i mentioned earlier that i saw in the early part of my career that just ended up getting out of law or getting out of professional services we've got the ability to you know uh keep their creativity and keep their enthusiasm and interest because they're they're getting more client facing time frankly and i mean end client not just partner i suppose one of the benefits sorry we got katie
00:44:44
Speaker
As I say, when we were talking about this on the podcast, you know, we talked about the opportunity that this creates and what people would be doing with their free time. And your white paper even talks to the missed revenue without freeing these people up. So there's lots of opportunity there. I wonder how that's playing out with the clients you're working with, whether that's quickly understood by managing partners and senior lawyers that, you this is a matter of what can these people be doing that's of a higher value versus thinking, great, we need less people, or how much it relies on having real champions and evangelists such as the people on this call in the business sort of taking that message through?
00:45:34
Speaker
um
00:45:38
Speaker
look the reality is there are There are relatively few ah managing partners and firms, and I can only speak to the UK at the moment, that have...
00:45:51
Speaker
ah visionary capabilities to see what the power of this can do, if I'm if I'm being brutally honest. um And um the reality is that this this technology, this evolution is so new that people are still getting their heads around it. And and so it It takes bravery and it takes um forward thinking to start incorporating into this. But my my co-founder, Sam, um says this a lot better than me.
00:46:26
Speaker
You do not, in 12 months time, You do not want to be stood on the beach when the tide's gone out because you simply will not catch up.
Enhancing Data Quality in Law Firms
00:46:35
Speaker
So if you are not thinking about this now, as in today, and you are going to fall way, way behind because as firms start to adopt this more quickly, um this thing is going to take off.
00:46:50
Speaker
And can I just ask before your question, Graham, Chris has asked a ah really good question here. Concerns I have with our data quality. Have you had to navigate data quality issues with the introduction of Leonard? Chris, it's a great question. and the reality is law firms, excuse my French, have really shit data compared to other industries. um So, yeah, data quality is a massive problem.
00:47:15
Speaker
issue. One example of how we're dealing with that, got a project running with a firm at the moment, not not a big firm, 200 lawyers. They told us they had a a credentials database. We had a look at it. It was Excel with a macro on it, and which was OK, I suppose. So we did a day zero project for them. We got Leonard or one of his brothers to call every single lawyer in the firm within a week and ask every single lawyer if they were going to stand on a soapbox on the corner of their building and evangelise about the three matters that were most important to them as a lawyer, that defined them as a lawyer.
00:48:00
Speaker
What would they be in? Why? And then we grabbed all of that data, consolidated it all and gave them back their first system of record, which was significantly better than a week before.
Sector Specialization and Collaboration
00:48:13
Speaker
That's that's the power of the scale of what we're dealing with.
00:48:17
Speaker
I've got ah i got a question, um which is ah our next podcast, which is which is available on our website today, actually, a but launches officially on Monday, is around sector specialisation and in particular about and how lawyers can ah develop expertise in a particular sector. And we've got Dr. Heidi Gardner, we've interviewed Dr. Heidi Gardner, who people will know on the webinar, is um probably the world expert um in collaboration and sector specialisation. And also David Harvey, who's a management consultant in the US.
00:48:54
Speaker
um And they spoke about how important it was for lawyers to now have really credible evidence that they are sector experts. I can see how a Leonard could actually be really useful in daily updates to lawyers about what's going on in in the sector. What are your thoughts on that?
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean... Look, absolutely. in I think, I mean, if we've got time, we'll go back to him. Let's go back to him, yeah. yeah Yeah, well, I i ah do recall, I i think Heidi Gardner's smart collaboration is part is part of his knowledge base. So I'm petrified to say this out loud, but we might ask him a question and see if he recognises that. He might have some views on that. Let's do it. Let's do it.
00:49:44
Speaker
Okay, let's um let's spend five minutes kind of grilling him. Yeah, hang on. Let me, this is now the human that's going to get this wrong, which is me. But let me just bring him back in. Let's see whether he's been listening.
00:50:06
Speaker
Hey, Leonard.
00:50:10
Speaker
I'm here and ready to continue. What can I help you with? um Graham's just asked me a question. Do you in your knowledge bank, do you know anything about a lady called Heidi Gardner?
00:50:23
Speaker
Yes, I do have information about Heidi Gardner in my knowledge base. Heidi K. Gardner, PhD, is a distinguished fellow at Harvard Law School Center on the Legal Profession. She's also a Harvard lecturer on law and faculty chair of their executive education program for law firm partners.
00:50:37
Speaker
Her research, quite importantly, focuses on leadership, collaboration, and management within professional service firms. She's also authored numerous articles and a book on the topic, and previously served on the organizational behavior faculty at Harvard Business School.
00:50:51
Speaker
It sounds like she's a leading voice on how firms can improve their internal collaboration. Yeah, um I mean, you've got, yeah, that's a lady. So the question really is, how do you see yourself supporting some of the ideas that Heidi has around smart collaboration?
00:51:10
Speaker
That's an excellent question that ties directly into Dr. Gardner's work. I see myself as a powerful enabler of the very principles she champions regarding smart collaboration. Firstly, Dr. Gardner emphasizes understanding who has the expertise and ensuring it's leveraged optimally.
00:51:24
Speaker
I can facilitate this by having a structured conversation with lawyers, remembering and cataloging their specific skills, experiences, and past project involvement. This creates a dynamic and accurate view of the firm's collective intelligence far beyond what a static CRM can offer.
00:51:40
Speaker
Secondly, a key challenge she identifies is the difficulty in connecting people and knowledge across silos. I directly address this by acting as that connective tissue. I can flag opportunities for lawyers to collaborate based on project needs, client interests, or emerging trends, essentially stitching together dispersed intelligence.
00:51:59
Speaker
By capturing insights in real time through natural conversation, I help operationalize the relationship capital and shared knowledge that Dr. Gardner highlights as essential for winning more business and innovating faster.
Conclusion and Future Plans
00:52:11
Speaker
Good man. Good man. Good man. I think that, I mean. Is there anything else I can help you with today? Or perhaps another question from the audience? No, be quiet. I'm going to put you on mute.
00:52:23
Speaker
ah Understood. I'll be here when you're ready. I think you've demonstrated brilliantly the power of the AI agent and you've been very generous and I know that and it was a brave thing for you to do. to This is the world first for you to come on with 50 odd people and to just answer questions that you had no idea what was coming both yours and Leonard's way. um i will say that we did ask Leonard to not have any profanities and that's maybe something we might ask you to do next time we interview you. but so I would like to wrap up. We said we'd finish at 45. It's now 52 minutes. It's been, I think, a very insightful and very interesting webinar.
00:53:02
Speaker
I'd ask the people on the webinar to send us an email, send Katie now an email, let know what you thought about it. we're We're keen to do more of this sort of stuff next year. But for now, thank you so much for Lee for coming on board from London at this late time. And thanks very much to Lennon.
00:53:17
Speaker
No problem at all. Nice to see you all. Have a good Wednesday. And yeah, hopefully if there's sufficient demand, I'll be over there next year. This has been Seldon Rosser production.
00:53:30
Speaker
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