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E47: Flying Demos (Part 2)
212 Plays18 days ago
Counting Crows' 13-Song (!) Demo Tape is legendary for its length and consistent quality; resulting in a multi-label bidding war. They were special from Reel #1 .
In this episode, we go over the history and legacy of this tape, and give our thoughts on the album, track-by-track.
Eric, Geoff and Chris are joined by "Double-G" (the Counting Crows archeologist) for the first time.
You can listen to the Demos Here:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Flying Demos Deep Dive
00:00:00
Speaker
All right, welcome to Sullivan Street, part two of the Flying Demos Deep Dive. We got our ah panel of experts, archaeologists, historians, etc. We're about to, you know, the first episode, we basically went over the history of the demo tape, some interesting fun facts and talked about the first four
Transition to Remaining Demo Tracks
00:00:18
Speaker
tracks. Well, that leaves us ah a lot of other tracks, what, nine other tracks. So we're we're in the middle of Shallow Days. Then we're going to talk about Love and Addiction. Spoiler alert, love that song. ah Mr. Jones around here, 40 years, Marjorie dreams of horses, bulldog lightning, and we're only love. And, and then end with our final conclusions about, you know, the 13 track demo tape of the counting crows from 1991, the flying demos.
Shallow Days Discussion
00:00:48
Speaker
So double G what's your opinion about shallow days?
00:00:52
Speaker
I love it. think it's a great song. um Both versions of it are really, are really cool. The acoustic one, but I think it's, ah yeah, think, I think it's really catchy. It's really good, but I understand why it didn't make August.
00:01:08
Speaker
going back and re-listen to the acoustic one. I haven't done that. and Does anybody know why, by the way? like Why did they just release those three songs on the August reissue? That made no sense to me, and I never heard an explanation.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, it feels like you could have just got... mean It was interesting. that Some of the stuff they pulled out right was stuff that people hadn't hadn't circulated, so that was cool. But yeah, you would think it would make sense to release the whole thing.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, very very, very, very, very odd. Okay, so let's go to the next song, Love and Addiction, which is also on the August reissue. Yeah.
00:01:47
Speaker
I, again, i love this song and I understand why Adam, it's not perfect. It's, I think it's like 80% there or something like that. Maybe 75.
00:01:58
Speaker
ah So Chris, any guess on what song this reminds me of? Well, this is, this is certainly, this Mercury. Oh, see, Oh, for love and addiction. Yeah. guess it is. I guess it's more of the lyrics and the way he says it, especially stuff about the dress and putting up your makeup or something. I'm thinking up all night.
00:02:17
Speaker
Oh, okay. There you
00:02:27
Speaker
was it you that jeff that used that term that i think there's a count comes up a couple times in the demos about a conversational more of a conversational singing and i got everything you want and saying that saying that tongue and cheek just like mr jones ah You know, that I'm going to write, write. like So Adam, I think when he's speaking to his girl saying, hey, I have everything you want, knowing one that Adam is probably like, yeah, I have a good catch and I do have everything you want. But of course, he also knows, yes, I'm flawed. I'm not everything you want.
00:02:58
Speaker
The only other two things I want to say about this song
Love and Addiction: Fan Favorite
00:03:02
Speaker
is, oh, and by the way, said played once live. I don't know if that's true or if that was one of the fake ones that you said. I'd be curious. I mean, that might like 1992. mean,
00:03:11
Speaker
I don't um know if anybody feels this way, but this is one of the lyrics that gives me, I think it's the lyric on the demo that gives me chills. I have no idea why, but it's this, and someday I'll be president.
00:03:22
Speaker
i That gives me the chills for some reason, because it has this kind of youthful optimism, but also knowing that's not true. and it just kind of set me back of, I don't know, right. Of, you know, that when you're in college age, which he was about when he made the song, that anything is possible. And he's also, i guess, selling himself to his girlfriend, but I just love it. um So Jeff, this should interest you. this is, I guess it's Charlie or it's it's it's maybe the other keyboardist, but, um and this comes up with the,
00:03:57
Speaker
Oh, what's the song on Saturday night with the, um, is it, is it Michelangelo? But anyway, the the part where he says, I sing like a hummingbird and I hear a little, the hummingbird sound effects. Right. And is that, what I always forget now, is that Washington square or, um, Michelangelo when he says about the, um,
00:04:15
Speaker
about the birds and you hear that. All right, I'll, I'll think of it. Oh, I think you're thinking of, uh, yeah. Washington square, the birds of Valley, Valley, exactly. And then Charlie comes in with a little bit of bird. And it's funny. Cause I think Adam said he had to like, tell him to do that, but it seems like he did that back in love, ah love and addiction. So, uh, Chris, I'll get your thoughts about, um, what,
00:04:35
Speaker
I think might be the strongest song, but that's just my opinion. love and agree. I agree that I'm with you that of the non, think the things that aren't on the record, this might be the strongest. Part of it is to your point, this feels like it's got so many of the sort of like lyrical concept, like the love and addiction thing, which he used to great effect in Mercury later on. Yes. um And it's conceptually in Mercury, but also literally he's, he you would there's an alt of this is not a song about love. This is a song about addiction. Oh, right. Right. And, and even just your point, the idea about like, you know, someday I'll be president, this sort of delusional thing of like, of who you are. i mean, that's kind of, you can't count. I mean, just, yeah there's a certain, there's so many different things that like are fundamentally in this song. Yeah, they're fundamentally Adam and why we like him as a lyricist. The speaking singing, which, by the way, people are always like, when did he start doing that? And it's like 1991, dude. Like, that's part of as part of what he does. um and And yeah, it's a really it's a really fascinating song. And I just... Yeah, I don't know. i I really like that. And again, part of it may just be that the idea of like...
00:05:43
Speaker
um some of the songs i think some of the reasons why some of these songs don't work is the lyrics feel a little either like under baked or a little like like einstein right of sort of like oh it's an idea but it's not really it's like i don't really mean it you know and and adam wanted to i presume mean it when he sang it on that first record this is one where you're like ah he I think he meant all this stuff, I think. Or at least could have. yeah you know in it in and even if it's hu you Yeah. And I think that might be one of the reasons that he doesn't want to re-record some of this because i i think in this song in particular, it's through the mind of someone who's 22 or something and he's not 22 anymore. Someday I'll be president is not easy to say when you're 62 or whatever. So um even though some of our last presidents have been... You're elected at higher ages. We all keep dreaming.
00:06:39
Speaker
um yeah The other thing I would note, I do think that's that play is correct because that is from a set list of a show that I know exists. Okay. And it's from Slim's in San Francisco in 92.
00:06:51
Speaker
It's been a long time since I went looking for that bootleg, but i I probably have it somewhere. And I think that i think that's a real play. So there's but there's one we know of. Jeff, your thoughts on Love and Addiction? Well, it was Ernest Hemingway who said that all good writing begins with one true thing.
00:07:07
Speaker
And this song feels true. Sorry, that was actually Adam Duritz from the liner notes of of the reissue. Oh, he wrote that about the song? Yeah, that's what Adam said.
00:07:18
Speaker
Oh, I didn't check that liner notes. I wanted to sound very deep for a moment like I was quoting Ernest Hemingway. But that's actually I'm actually quoting Adam Duritz quoting Ernest Hemingway. Yeah, to me, this is one of the, you know, this is, I was talking about Matt's kind of times over playing on the demos with the fretless bass. And to me, this is probably the best example of that where it's really driven by this fretless bass.
00:07:42
Speaker
um And to me, that I probably don't prefer it because of that. But the I have to mention, since it hasn't been mentioned, um is Eliza Elizabeth? Is that short for Elizabeth? What's going on here? Is this another Betsy song? What's what's the story with Eliza? i want to know. and We have Mary Jane, but we don't know if he was actually referring to a real person there. Anna begins. We know he was. But this song is to Eliza.
00:08:09
Speaker
And I just wonder if that is Elizabeth or if it's a different Eliza. Who's Eliza? The mystery continues. Yeah, and I was mad that Kyle Meredith didn't bring up this song. Not that I needed him to bring up all of the demos, but I think we said he focused on, what was it, Shallow Days and 40 Years and Marjorie. Yeah, i were something. Or maybe it was 40 Years and Marjorie. So yeah, I was like, oh, you're going to mention this one. He didn't. Double G, your thoughts on Love and Addiction? Well, I think... ah
00:08:40
Speaker
First of all, i don't know if if you guys noticed listening to the bootlegs versus the officially released version. Besides the difference in audio quality, there's a slight extra verse in the one that they released officially.
00:08:53
Speaker
yeah Not the rush of submarines. That's not in the in the bootleg version. This is why you're here, Double G. This is why we we needed you on this show. I remember the first time when I bought it and I put it in, i was like, oh, man, I get get to hear these songs sound good. you know And it caught me way off guard. I was like, that's not in the bootleg version. And it's not much. It's just a couple of lines. But if you the the song length is a little different.
00:09:17
Speaker
I think it's a really catchy song. I think the bass is incredible in this song. I'm going to assume it's Matt. I'm pretty sure it's Matt. I think it must be, yeah. Yeah, it sounds like Matt playing bass here, and it blows me away. you know ah Contrary to Jeff over here, I love the fretless, I don't want to start a rivalry, but I think it's i think it's incredible on this song. it's It's just a fun song to listen to you know it doesn't I never really gave the lyrics too much thought. i think theyre I kind of think they're a little silly, to be honest with you. but
00:09:48
Speaker
i But I do love the song. I think it's killer. Yeah. Thank you Thank you, Double G. ah Great. Well, we'll move on to... Yeah, though i heard...
00:10:00
Speaker
Somebody, all right sure sorry, I saw someone on YouTube commenting that there were multiple differences in sound and maybe some other things, lyrics. i You're right. Now that I think about that, I first know of this song because of the August reissue.
00:10:14
Speaker
And I do now remember something about a submarine now that I think about it. But yeah, I haven't listened to these enough to compare. But I did hear people commenting on the differences. And that just interested me, too. Like it's not, you how to. Yeah. Not only what songs did they choose, but did they remaster stuff or obviously use a different tape take in some instances.
Mr. Jones and Round Here: Demo Versions Analyzed
00:10:33
Speaker
Okay. So the next two, I guess, I don't know if you want to talk on them back to back. Maybe we should. Why not? Because the next two are the last two that were in August. And that is weird, right? We had the...
00:10:46
Speaker
Three in a row, right? Reign King, Omaha, and Anna Begins, and now two in a row, Mr. Jones and Round Here. um So do I have thoughts? I don't know. i didn't listen to these much in the last week. i I said Mr. Jones, I guess is right, sounded more acoustic-y and...
00:11:03
Speaker
There wasn't as many drums, which is interesting, at least because Bowman talked about he didn't play drums, but there's big focus on drums of Mr. Jones. I said there was more Charlie shown on this one. I don't remember. if I'd have to re-listen again. i talked about the background singing girls, which surprised me for the demo. I like the August version better. And then we'll go to... brown Do you want to do one by one, Chris, or should I ah do both? but We can do them both. i mean, don't have a lot. I mean, the Mr. Jones version. Mr. Jones is interesting because I think that one is...
00:11:31
Speaker
of the songs on August that are from the go in August. It's probably the closest to the final version. Yeah. A little cleaner, but like it's, that's kind of the song.
00:11:44
Speaker
Um, Round here, again, it's a similar thing, but but it's a lot of, again, the sort of the substitutions, right? The synth instead of Dave's drumming at the beginning, the piano, that the sort of like synth instead of the more organic like piano and organ sounds of of what Charlie plays on the record.
00:12:01
Speaker
And it just, again, some of the speed stuff, but just like I have a note that round here just totally feels too fast at the end. Yeah, feels quicker. asked You know? Feels I put more free flowing. I'm not sure why I put that. But yeah, but I did put quicker.
00:12:14
Speaker
And um I actually i don't know. I had a note here that I love the bass on this version, but that might be I don't know how to do with fretless. I'm not a bass expert. That's why I was asking Matt Malley all these bass questions. kind of interested Jeff, let's go to you on your take on two of the Crows most popular songs ever and their demo versions.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah. So Mr. Jones, I mean, though i think the the one of the real signatures of that song is the opening guitar lick. I mean, which that's all you got to hear. You know, it's that song.
00:12:45
Speaker
One of the most famous guitar licks, you know, or openers of the 90s, for sure. It's iconic. um As I learned when I was on this podcast, It was not played by anybody in the band. It was played by T-Bone Burnett. And you don't hear it on this demo, so sure enough. um and And I think because of the the way that the guitar is played on here, it's a little bit of almost like a reverse of how it came out. You can tell that T-Bone went in and said, you got to play it this way. um And then actually played on it as well. And I think that you can really hear that contribution. And to me,
00:13:22
Speaker
and It gives it a very different feel. The other thing is that we know Adam writes songs on piano. We know the story about this song when he, you know, it's very much just a detailed description of his night on the town with Marty Jones. And he went home and wrote it. And it's such a guitar based song built around a guitar, even even on the demo built around ah a sort of a guitar line. And so it's interesting to me that.
00:13:44
Speaker
For a song that was written on piano, and it's so rooted in guitar. And so that's just interesting. It makes me wonder, like, I want to be a fly on the wall when Adam sat down at his apartment that night and wrote this. Or did he? That might be the question. Did he actually write this on a piano? Or is this something maybe he wrote with Bryson?
00:14:05
Speaker
No, because he he talks about how he went home and wrote it. Now, you know, i mean, he writes on piano and he went home after that night on the town and wrote the song, you know, by himself. So we should look up and see if there's a a co-write or a credit on there. I'm pulling that up because I'm curious now as you're saying this.
00:14:23
Speaker
um Also, this does have, that's interesting and just kind of fun, this little piano vamp at the end on the demo that's kind of fun and they're laughing and like joking around. There's a weird, you know, kind of a fun little thing that was obviously cut off. But I like that kind of moment on the demo. Just you feel like you're hearing a demo when you hear that. The kind of stuff that they had on Desert Life, right? A little more of that playfulness between songs. Yeah, a little bit of a thing in there. What did you find out, Chris? Mr. Jones is Duritz Bryson.
00:14:53
Speaker
And I wonder, to your point about the guitar heaviness, I wonder if Adam had maybe on the piano a real skeleton a very skeletal thing. And then as he was talking about it with Dave, maybe he has the lyrics, he's got the idea in his head. Dave like... And Dave just sort of strumming it. Like, go, oh, okay, that's the... you know, that could happen, right? I mean, there's the idea when say he went home and wrote it, like he might've gone home and like, I think I've got an idea and who knows to what extent the chords were sort of like fully written out at that point, as opposed kind of in his head.
00:15:21
Speaker
And at that point, you know, that's the kind of thing where you're like, we say he went home and wrote it. Maybe the next day he's like, Dave, I got an idea. Come over, you know? like Yeah, right, right. And I mean, obviously if if Bryson's got a co-write on the music, then he must've made a key contribution there, you know, because, um,
00:15:37
Speaker
like I said, it it is such a guitar song. It'd be interesting to hear like what his original conception was like, you know, like when he did, when he did sit down and write it. Um, yeah, around here, I don't, I don't have much to add to that other than, you know, again, you hear the kind of prominence of Matt Malley in that song and his, um, use of a lot of fretless bass and things like that. Um,
00:15:59
Speaker
and And just I agree that the the version that they released was more powerful because they kind of slowed it down. They gave it more drama. They gave it more space and things like that. And and um I certainly prefer the, you know, where they took that song over its many evolutions from a Himalayas kind of rock tune to what we heard in the in the final version.
00:16:22
Speaker
know Great. thank you Thank you, Jeff. I know. It's funny when you say all that, because I know that i haven' and I've already... I had Round Here, if you remember, pretty low on my August list, even though most people think it's their top to five songs. But so I kind of like some of these quicker versions of this. Sometimes I think the...
00:16:40
Speaker
The real version is a little too dramatic for me, which I know sounds, sounds, uh, insane, like a heretic or whatever. I know I'm awful. So, uh, let's go to double G your thoughts on the demo, uh, takes on the hits, Mr. Jones and round here. Have, have any you guys ever heard the, the,
00:17:01
Speaker
ah demo of this song where it's just Adam on a keyboard. Oh, there is. you right is It's like a synthy thing, right? It's like a whole demo version. Can I say cuss words on here? Go ahead. yes I think it's like him on like a crummy Casio, you know? Excuse my language, but it's on a... It's like just him on like a little synth playing it with the chords and everything.
Exploration of Unreleased Tracks
00:17:23
Speaker
So I do think he wrote this on piano, and then I think Bryson probably jumped in and added some, you know, basically...
00:17:30
Speaker
the guitar. But I don't know if anybody ever heard that. I have it somewhere. I have heard that. Yeah. With the like yeah machine or whatever. Forget about that, you know, that's so, it's so weird as to be like, you almost like put it out of your brain. Cause you're like, I can't process that. that's ah the song But you're right. Maybe it's just like, yeah, like it's, it's, and again, maybe it is the idea that the guitar work once Bryson cut it, where's that work sort of forms the song into what it is, as opposed to some weird,
00:17:57
Speaker
again, like a skeleton of of like what that song ended up being. Yeah, it winds up, it's just it's really kind of him almost trying to sound like, play the the synth like a guitar almost, and it doesn't really work, but you know it's just him with an idea. you know i don't think it's him trying to... and then for Round Here, I think it's kind of like ah they're almost sort of bridging between The Himalayans and August Everything After version of this, like I think it was Chris said, towards the end, it's like way too fast. And like they're, it's like powerful in like the faster rock kind of way. It doesn't really work with the song, but you could see that the potential is there for it to be what it's become.
00:18:38
Speaker
I think that's right. Yeah, great. Well, thank you, Double G. Now we get to the final five songs on the... And there's other versions of the demos that have additional tracks and stuff, but we're focusing on the the big 13. I guess the official... This is what was actually sent.
00:18:54
Speaker
We think. We think. And we're not sure of the order, but this is at least what weve we've been told. So the last five songs, all of them are not on August, and none of them were released except for what were Only Love, the last one that was released on the August reissue, right?
00:19:10
Speaker
um I'm pretty sure. Is that true? I think there's a Marjorie version on... The August. They released the live one. It was the live version of the live version of Marjorie. yeah Oh, okay. Something like that.
00:19:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that Oh, right. No, it's on the bonus disc. Right. Not on the... So that's the live version. Yeah. So, um and then did I... maybe We're Only Love is not on... Okay, so I guess it's not. I guess I just had had heard that a lot not um on YouTube or whatever. So let's go to 40 Years Next.
00:19:41
Speaker
um According to said list, played six times, which is kind of a unique one. yeah This one grew on me. The first time I heard it, I kind of thought it was the weaker one of the weaker ones. And then don't know. I like it. So what this reminded me of, I i know this is going to seem like a stretch, but especially with the lyrics, I actually think that this...
00:20:06
Speaker
This is where you hear what Emmy is not really part of the band yet. Because this song, I think, has the ingredients that if Emmy was there, it's a rocker. And there's a guitar solo and like Boxcar Z. And some of the lyrics even reminded me of 1492 and some other things because you got...
00:20:26
Speaker
40 years to buy guns. I don't anything to talk about guns involved in Counting Crow songs and kind of violence. and I don't know. But but this is ah one that, yeah, I think this is when they were more of an acoustical kind of band. right and Even Vickery's not in the band yet. So I think that this that the bare bones of this song is what would have been in a hard rocker song once the other guitarists are added. And that's all I have to say about that.
00:20:55
Speaker
chris Yeah. 40 years is one they played. i thought I thought it was more than six times, but I think it's one of those things where like um those were just very heavily bootleg shows. And so it feels like maybe you heard them. And I think this was the kind of thing that was maybe often used as filler on a bootleg, right? You're like, oh, here's another bonus song because there's, you know, maybe you haven't heard before.
00:21:16
Speaker
um It's... ah Also interesting, I'm not a huge fan of the song. Born in the Jungle, Born in a Good Home. You know, in 1492 where he talks about the history and it's like I was abandoned but I had a good boat.
00:21:30
Speaker
And this one, like um anyway, I'm filled with white noise. and you get Anyway, I never did much anything. It's a little bit of self-hating on here, a little bit, which you didn't get on the other demo songs, I think. But anyway. Yeah. There's also that the lyric, Gimme the Thunder, Gimme the Rain. Right. A a is, of again...
00:21:47
Speaker
you know that that's going to be a recurring theme over the next 30 years. um And also, though, the ah that was the name of like one some... heavily circulating bootleg was give me the thunder give me the rain which i think was probably something i think i think mostly collected stuff like this of like songs that weren't um released and he has the line i want to get me a good wife and he did not know at the time that that would take him what 35 years 35 years that correctly exactly so um but dreams do come true and um then he talks about a garden i'm
00:22:22
Speaker
Hoping he has one there in New York in his apartment? He does.
Marjorie's Legendary Status
00:22:25
Speaker
He calls that area with the AstroTurf in his apartment the garden. So he did get a garden. Oh, okay. Where Sunday mornings was demoed, right?
00:22:32
Speaker
yeah ah Jeff, your thoughts about 40 years? Well, we can't forget memory, right? Which he mentions in this yeah one of his favorite topics. We got the elephant memory in this one. That's true.
00:22:43
Speaker
um Not much to add. I think that this is like a really great rockin' song. I was texting these guys a couple of weeks ago and saying, you have to listen to the Flamin' Groovies, yesterday's numbers from 1971. It is literally the exact same chords, I think, in the same key. And I really do wonder if that's one of the reasons they were like, eh. I will tell you that... um ah From the things that I've read, Adam gets asked about this song. He hates this song. He really, really doesn't like this song. Oh, is that true? Okay. um
00:23:17
Speaker
Which I disagree. i really I actually love the music. even i think They just borrowed the like the very opener of the Flame and Groovy song and like turned it into their own song, and I think it's great. um I love it musically. um you know Lyrically, maybe it's not... um you know, it's like adam Adam clearly doesn't like it, but, um, with some new lyrics, I think this is a great piece of music. I really, this is one that I would have loved to hear them develop for like, um, Saturday nights and Sunday mornings, for example, like, all right, Adam, throw out the lyrics. If you don't like them, um, let's just start again, but let's take this great piece of music and turn it into a show piece. Cause I
00:23:58
Speaker
I just think it's really, um really it really, really rocks. I love it. Yeah. I love the music a lot. And, and the lyrics don't bother me, but if Adam doesn't like him, he can get rid of him and write something. ah Double G your thoughts on 40 years.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's funny, like in the Kyle Meredith interview and a couple others, where we talked about songs like shallow day, saying it's like, it's a two minute catchy, whatever song, you know, but it's stretched out to five minutes. no way to change it.
00:24:26
Speaker
And I always think to myself, you have that with this song with 40 years is exactly what you're describing. It's a really catchy, like fun song. It's about two minutes and 20 seconds or whatever it is.
00:24:38
Speaker
I think it's really good. I love the ending of it. um The lyrics are again is kind of silly, but. All right. Cool. ah Let's move on to what I guess I would call next to the next to Einstein.
00:24:54
Speaker
i guess the two. Those are the two. ah So Marjorie is the is the song Marjorie dreams of horses. So I think Einstein and Marjorie are the most, I guess, late. legendary songs on this that I had heard about a lot, even without really listening to demos, right? Because the other ones, the other five were on the August. And, um but i kept hearing about this Marjorie and then, right. Then another horse dreamers blues was the sequel and all this stuff. And this is also unique because according to set list was played. So I think one of the reasons that you hear about it a lot is because all of these fans that saw them a lot saw it live and it said it was played 41 times. So, cause I actually think,
00:25:32
Speaker
ah Hot take, Eric's hot take. I think it's the weakest of all of these songs on the demo, in my opinion. It's my least favorite song. um But it's a fan favorite. People want him to redo it. Obviously, you got asked about it by Kyle Meredith. um I guess I just think it needs to be reworked, and I understand. What what what did Adam say? He didn't like the chorus, right? There's that kind of a lack of a chorus, and it's sort of... ah interesting like i i can get what Adam says about the song. Yes, I do. Which is that...
00:26:00
Speaker
Because i as as as someone who writes sketch a lot, I sometimes have this problem, right? Where you have something that sort of works. You're like, this works. Something about this works. But you're like, it doesn't work. Like, it's missing. It's not in the right. But then you try to reconstruct it.
00:26:14
Speaker
And in trying to fix it, you lose. You're like, oh, I've somehow stripped. Yeah. what was good about this in fixing it. And I can imagine them trying to sort of fix this song in certain ways, whatever they feel are the exact holes in a certain sense and kind of going, well, now it's gone. Something's gone. i can, I can feel that.
00:26:35
Speaker
I do think as a rock, was like, again, like this is, I think the, the playing here is pretty good. i think that's why losing time. People like it, especially the live version. Obviously that's a,
00:26:46
Speaker
a spot for victory to sort of showcase himself a little bit on that door. Um, you know, so I think that's maybe one of the reasons why people want to go back to it. And again, there's the admission that they went back to it for,
00:26:59
Speaker
recovering the satellites. I think we'd all be very interested to hear the recovering the satellites version. um That'd be interesting. And then he said that when I call Meredith, that this is the one song that he admitted going back to, if he said a quote unquote, a few years ago or something by himself and trying to, and then that's when I use the, um i think I said it actually on the podcast and with Jeff. And I said,
00:27:21
Speaker
I believe that, and he's probably, he might be correct, but I can almost guarantee that if he did that and locked himself up with Emmy and Jim and Charlie, I bet you they could come up with something.
00:27:31
Speaker
I really do. maybe so I would also, here's of the interesting places, is we talked about like the way adam's Adam's voice sounds very different to me on the demo version. Yeah. Like higher, like it does not sound... ah It sounds very different. the Other thing I would note is that relative to some of the the versions that the songs ended up on August, this one sounds like it has more of the August sound already.
00:27:52
Speaker
Like there some of that space is there. that The song does breathe in a way that, You can almost hear them taking, okay, maybe some of the something about the way we're doing this, maybe if we kind of translate it to the other ones, you can kind of feel that.
00:28:05
Speaker
This one gets closer to me to the August sound, interestingly, even though it's one that ends up getting left off August and, you know, forgotten.
00:28:16
Speaker
Jeff, your thoughts on... By the way, li and but all you can talk about this, and Chris, I didn't make the connection. is there a lot of lyrical... Can someone explain the lyrical connections or the story connections between this and another horse? I guess it's just that's just about Marjorie, but I don't know if there's any... Yeah, I mean, the obvious thing is marjorie is dreaming you know Marjorie's dreaming of horses in the middle of the day, right? Right. And so and the little song is called Marjorie Dreams of Horses. The other song is called Marjorie Dreams of So there's something kind of connection there, but I'm with you that it's not... um
00:28:48
Speaker
Entirely clear. Entirely clear what the exact connection is in terms of Marjorie and her story. it' maybe it's been hang Maybe she goes to meet Einstein on the beach later, as Jeff would say. And I don't know. And he can use his horses to start a war and drink Diet Coke, whatever. Okay. So, um Jeff, let's go to you about Marjorie.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, well, it's interesting. They played three songs a lot on the ah August tour that they revisited for Recovering the Satellites. um Two of them, Children in Bloom and Goodnight Elizabeth, made it onto that album. And this one, for some reason, did not.
00:29:29
Speaker
um but was kind of rethought and reimagined. This is another one where I'm like, what is this song about? The lyrics are cool, but I'm like, what is this song about? i have I still have absolutely no idea what what he is singing about on this song. I think in some ways the chorus um is sounds more like a Counting Crows song about Marjorie. It's about this woman and you know, she's giving him a hard time. And then this other thing, I am just not, I'm not sure what this song is about. um
00:30:01
Speaker
I think it's a cool song and i like it. I think though the other thing worth mentioning is that some thought it was this like a sequel or prequel to Anna Begins because Anna is mentioned in the song as well. It's not just Marjorie in here. We've got Anna in there as well. um And so there's some sort of connection, but Yeah, ultimately, I've said this before, I think Horse Dreamers is another Horse Dreamers Blues is one of their absolutely greatest songs, a total masterpiece. I love it. So um if if it took getting rid of this song to get rid of that,
00:30:38
Speaker
or to get to that song, then I'm perfectly happy with that decision. I think it's ah a good song. And it's cool that they did have released it as a live cut and um it shows up in the the documentary and things like that because it is a neat song. But yeah, it's um I guess there was one one concert where they played both of the Whore Streamer songs. I would love to hear them redo this one in concert just just for nostalgia's sake.
00:31:04
Speaker
I didn't catch, even though I've heard this song maybe eight to 10 times, I don't even think I caught the Anna. I looked back at Anna. Yeah. yeah i looked up banana she I looked up at Anna. She turned back to look at me. That's has to kill the ones that matter, render blind the ones who see.
00:31:19
Speaker
Whatever you want to take them there. Kyle merit mentioned the song. The other thing I would note, by the way, Jeff, you mentioned, you said ah the chorus to the song. ah If you look at the lyrics, there's no recognized chorus.
00:31:32
Speaker
What is the chorus in the song? Oh, Marjorie, she's got taken inside of me or whatever, you know? mean, don't know if there's no chorus, but though whatever that part that he sings there sounds like something he would sing in another
Bulldog's Bluesy Influence
00:31:46
Speaker
song. the rest of it, I'm like, i don't know, we're in a river or somewhere, there's water and we've got some horses, I guess. kind of Kyle, Meredith had kind of an indirect comment. Yeah.
00:31:57
Speaker
Because he's ah he's at Public Radio based in, I think, Louisville, but i know it's in Kentucky. yeah and And I think he was stayed in Kentucky. And he almost like joked him, like, you know Omaha gets their song, California gets this, Virginia through the rain. Like, this was the Kentucky song and you didn't officially release it. Like, you know, there's mentions, you know, come on, mention Lexington. Cut me a break. um Double G to you, Marjorie.
00:32:22
Speaker
ah Yeah, Marjorie is one of my favorite songs. I love it. So it's kind of sad to hear that you don't like it. But I feel like if the Recovering the Satellites version was the one released, it would probably be a fan favorite. You know, I think that recording that they did for Recovering the Satellites, that supposedly has Mellotron, is more electric.
00:32:45
Speaker
That's been missing for 30 something years, although i hear rumors that they may have found it. I think I know who has it if if they haven't. So tell all their management to reach out to and me I can help them out.
00:32:57
Speaker
ah But it's I do know if you watch the documentary, they do a quick, in the beginning, they pan through like some like tapes, label tapes. And on there, there are two versions of Marjorie that were recorded during the, ah you know, for the demos. I don't know if one's acoustic, but they both, it's something about the intro being different on each one. I don't know.
00:33:19
Speaker
I would really love to hear the recovering the satellites version, like Chris said. And i mean, you know, I have it my way, i will someday, but we'll see about that. Yeah, that's great. And you made a good point because he – Kyle was trying to ask them him about those, but Adam spoke very vague generalities, big picture, not specific about particular songs like you said. Plus we have those horn, the missing horn songs, right? That – Blues and such.
00:33:47
Speaker
Yeah, so – He said that his main contention, I guess, with this song is that there's not a chorus, but I don't know if he's ever heard of a song called John Appleseed's Lament. which also doesn't have a chorus, and is on an album.
00:34:00
Speaker
As soon as you said that, I was thinking there is a couple. There are, I think. ah Yeah, you're right. I know that there, and there might be more, right? I kind of think that there might be two or three songs that don't really have choruses for. Yeah, so i come i call I call Malarkey on Adam on that one.
00:34:14
Speaker
That's true. Thank you. And I love Johnny Appleseed's Lament, but there is no, there is no chorus on that one. There's no chorus about Johnny digging up the trees or whatever. Okay.
00:34:27
Speaker
Great. Thank you. Three more songs to go. Next one, Bulldog. um And all of the last three songs, according to the set list, have never been played live. So we only have these versions.
00:34:39
Speaker
and I don't have much here. don't, Did like this. It wasn't my favorite, ah but i I did like it. i I don't know if it's bluesy or is there's something in there, the sound that a little different um to me. And I think I'm the only one that had this album. I remember I used to be a big Toe of the Wet Sprocket fan and their kind of last semi successful album was Coil, where they kind of try to go a little more electric, but still have the toad sound. And to me, this sounds like one of the deep cuts from there. Not a particular song, but the entire feel of an album. So it feels kind of 90s-ish to me. i like it, but not much to say. Chris, Bulldog.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have much on this one either. I noticed the, uh, again, the sort of, this one has a distinction between love and need, um, which sounds like, uh, the less eloquent way of talking about love and addiction. Um, but yeah, this one just kind of passes by me a little bit. I, uh, you know, um,
00:35:39
Speaker
A reference to angels, a reference to California. I'm just quickly looking. There's a woman's name, Louise. That's true. Louise. Right. Louise, Mary Jane, Parker. Eliza. We got We got true.
00:35:57
Speaker
That's funny. Jeff, to you, anything else about Bulldog? Yeah, not much. i agree. i think out of all of the, and didn't this one get released also on the reissue in 2007? No, it's not. No. Okay. All right. My bad. Um,
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah, to me, out of all of the flying demos and unreleased songs, this to me is the kind of least compelling of them all. and It's very 80s sounding. You got that heavy chorus process guitar. You've got a lot of this fretless bass and stuff like that. Yeah.
00:36:31
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, to me, the only other thing I would say is is that um one of the all-time worst Beatles songs is called Hey Bulldog. Even the Beatles are capable of writing a dead, and they've got one. It's called Hey Bulldog. So, you know, the connection here is there are two bands with kind of dead songs with a bulldog in the title, and I'll leave it at that.
00:36:53
Speaker
Double G, let's get your take on the song Bulldog. ah So I got to tell my joke again about this. I said, well, we had a little issue, so it got re-recorded, but said to all the listeners out there, if you're an animal lover, I don't want you to be misled into thinking that this song is about an actual dog. It's not. ah It's actually, i don't know what it's about. um Adam said before with these demos that he didn't like that um that he was like basically teaching himself how to write songs you know for for like a band, right? So
00:37:26
Speaker
I wonder if this is just him trying to mess around with like a funk blues groove kind of sound or or or what. It sure sounds like that. it's It's kind of a throwaway song, but whatever. I'll i'll take it. I like it.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yeah. That's where I said like, it didn't remind me of any particular song. As I said, more of the Crows or even more of Toad or even sort of humor a little bit. But there is senses on here where he wants to go into some other, i don't say other genres of music, right? but But other, and this is kind of, as you said, maybe the first foray into that, which does come up later in in in his songs,
Lightning's Thematic Depth
00:38:06
Speaker
of course. with blue when he says When he says, hey, Matthew, do you think he's talking to Matt Malley? It's possible. I've always wondered that, but i have maybe it's just and maybe he's just throwing names out there for this
00:38:17
Speaker
for these recordings, you know, it's just like filler words. That's a good question. How's the name of the bulldog? It could have been. Maybe there wasn't. Maybe I've been wrong. There's an actual dog. but If we get Matt back on the podcast. By the way, he mentions a so on the line about angels, all these angels scared to walk the wire line, according that. Insomnia's been here, too. He's got a line about insomnia.
00:38:37
Speaker
Oh my goodness. So yeah, so this is where he's experimenting with things that'll come up quite a bit later. Okay. So it's funny you use the word Jeff, the horrible word dud, ah because yeah i was reading a review yesterday about this from some user online saying that this is one of their favorite albums, even though it's a demo album.
00:38:57
Speaker
This particular user thought Lightning was the only dud in an album of 12 other genius tracks. I really like Lightning. yeah They're wrong.
00:39:08
Speaker
They're wrong. and it can can i do the hard thing And and like you said, kind of, this is the one song, Chris, I think to your point before that, this is, is, is a little sparse, right? Where a lot of the ones are a little more dense. The lyrics here. um Is this the last one that reminded me of something else? Yes. The lyrics ah here reminded me of tall grass a bit. Now why but about this, um because a little negative, I'll look at it while you're talking, but yeah. Yeah, but no, I love this song. and it's To your point, though, about like trying things on, this sounds this very much sounds like a Blue Nile song. um This sounds like sparse, but in that sort of more electronic-y, eighty s British way.
00:39:50
Speaker
um To the point, also, that Adam's Delivery... ah he almost sounds like he's trying to go for a British accent at times. And other times i I almost feel like I'm hearing him go, no, no, no. Don't, don't go full British. Don't go full British. You're not British. um But there's a certain, there's a very British quality to this. It's a cool song. Like I can understand why it's left on the cutting room floor. Cause it's like,
00:40:12
Speaker
a cool tune that doesn't really fit the ultimate style they got to. But as like a pastiche and an interesting song, I think it's pretty cool. You know? Oh, that's an interesting thing. Cause of course, tall grass was written on a British farm. That's interesting. But yeah, there's themes here of black and white, which of course come up all the time, including colorblinds. This is the first reference to fading. which I think right i these is something like we could be slowly fade out of sight, which is that's something that's so Adam, ah you know, his his obsession with fading. Was there something else? Anyway, yeah. Then there's much about the rage. And he does, again, mention here about crazy and rage and violence. It's kind of hidden and a little ah later in the lyrics. But yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker
Yeah, again, some of that reminds me of Tallgrass a little bit when when he, um I guess it's not as quote-unquote mean, but when he talks about the um him killing the rabbit, basically, and that i need right because it's like it's it's shaking, and it's but it's dead, and there's no life in it anymore. And I think there's some kind of commentary on... I don't know if it's just as meat eaters or just that, you know, animals in general are cruel to each other or, or just life is cruel. But um Jeff, let's go to you ah thoughts about lightning.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah, this to me, this is probably my favorite of all. Okay, great. I love it too. Yeah. Yeah. Of all of the unreleased songs, songs that didn't make it or whatever, this is probably my favorite. I really like it. And it's a song that,
00:41:46
Speaker
The more I listen to it, the more I like it. It's grown and grown and grown on me um over time. Adam has been kind of dismissive of this song. He said it was like a total Peter Gabriel ripoff. He said it stole from a Ricky Lee Jones song.
00:42:03
Speaker
um But I really, i think the thing that I like about it the most is that his vocal po performance to me, I was saying this earlier about how he became such a ah great singer between the demos and and then August and everything after. i think on this song, he delivers a vocal performance that's pretty close to that August level performance. I think his singing on here is better than any of these other songs. Yeah.
00:42:30
Speaker
yeah including the ones that made it to august i think it's a really good performance from him and um so i i give it a an enthusiastic thumbs up cool double g your thoughts on lightning yeah this uh i mean it has this ambient quality about it that it doesn't sound like anything else from these demos at least anything that we've heard um it's kind of like it's it's kind of like the tall grass or like High Life or New Frontier where it's like ah it's different than the rest of the songs around it, you know, or or even like Mercury, you know, where it's like it stands out and it doesn't share a sound with everything else. But it's like it's still them. So I don't know. It's a really it's a nice song to listen to. It's peaceful, but it's also kind of like haunting, you know, so it's an enjoyable listen, in my opinion. And it's also the last one on this that is was written by Adam, you know, because then there's the cover song. but
00:43:25
Speaker
I think this be a great way to close it, but you know. Right. Okay. Great. So that leaves us to, which I had no idea. So double G we'll start with you. So we're only love. Is that a cover song? We're only love.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah. That's a song by that band, Mr. Dog that Matt and Dave were both. now Oh, look at you. We brought the archeologist in here. It's a cover.
00:43:50
Speaker
it's a com Hey, I don't know what they're paying me, but they should bring me in to find things because I'm pretty good at it. So tell us a little bit about how you found that and then also give your thoughts about this song.
00:44:06
Speaker
I don't remember where i learned that it was that it was a cover song. because like if if you There's like one video of Mr. Dog on the internet that I could find. There's really not much about the band or any of their songs or anything. like Matt Malley would probably have...
00:44:22
Speaker
a lot more answers about, about that. Cause I'm pretty sure he was in the band or at least as a session player with him or whatever. um i mean, this song is a, it's a really cool song in my opinion. But I don't, it's, it sounds like something that they could have written. Right. So I kind of understand the the surprise. Like it almost, it sounds like a Counting Crows song and, you know, I mean, for all intents and purposes here it is, but yeah, it's, it's that's just a good, solid song. You know, they they did a great job with the recording and the production of And I guess Bryson had a better feel for it because he, I don't if he wrote the song himself or what, but. Hmm.
00:45:00
Speaker
Cool. Jeff, any thoughts? We'll go in reverse order this time. Any thoughts of we're only love? Yeah, well, that was that was certainly news to me that it was not a Counting Crows song. It was a Mr. Dog song. And I agree. I think it's ah a good a good song. I guess, you know, sort of like some of these other ones, you can you can kind of try to put yourself into the mindset of of the band and think, yeah, is this something that we want to put together?
00:45:24
Speaker
on to August or go forth with. And, you know, in some ways it's, it's maybe not, a you know, it doesn't hit the you know highs that maybe their best material did, but you can see why it was on the demo tape and why they, um you know, had considered it at least. Cause it is, it is a ah cool song. I definitely like it, but I don't have a lot to add other than that.
00:45:47
Speaker
Chris. Yeah. I like the outro a lot. Like that kind gets stuck in my head, the calling your name part. um It is interesting. One of the things that it is makes sense in some ways that maybe that this wasn't an Adam song because it feels, does feel a little less, even some of the songs that, you know, we're, we all go, ah, well, you know, that was a pastiche or something. It didn't quite work, but you can feel like the, the way the themes run through.
00:46:11
Speaker
to Like, okay, I can hear these words that sort of connect the dots. This one kind of is just kind of feels very like more little more disconnected. but that means That makes sense of just, you know, it was the rest of the band song. Adam was willing to sing it. They liked, he liked it enough. um But it doesn't maybe connect in the same way to the rest of it. It feels a little bit more of an outlier to me.
00:46:32
Speaker
Weirdly than lightning or the other stuff. And that I don't know something about that. It kind of makes sense to me
Reflections and Future Hopes
00:46:37
Speaker
now. yeah Actually, I do now ah remember what how I learned it was a cover song. Adam, he was looking through Adam's old post that he used to make on like AOL or or whatever.
00:46:48
Speaker
And it was, he was musing about a couple old things. And and at the end of it, he wrote, i did not write, we're only love. And from there I went and looked it up and it was sure enough is, is a cover. Cool. Yeah.
00:47:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I like this song. i think, um, yeah, I think it's a fun way to end it i I, really like his vocal performance here. i guess he's, he does the, you know, I don't know He does other things with his voice besides saying the, the, the, the words, um,
00:47:21
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. Adam's great with his Sha Na Na's and everything else. I put him in like the Michael Jackson company that, you know how Michael does the other voice things that aren't the singing parts, right? His own Michael Jackson sound effects, I guess. And Adam does the same thing with his Sha Na Na's and backup vocals and everything. I don't know.
00:47:39
Speaker
um Yeah, I love Or Only Love. It's a cool song. i want to I want to hear them redo it. Maybe they can put it on Underwater Sunshine 2 since it's a yeah it's a remake. um Great. So um I think that about wraps it up for Flying Demos. But I did want to Double G, anything you either want to add about... um crow's historical fun facts or without revealing too much do you or do you want to plug anything or ask people to uh send you anything if they have inside and inside scoop on something so listen if anybody knows anything about any any sort of uh off the beaten path counting crow stuff send it send it my way ah
00:48:22
Speaker
i you know I don't want to give out my contact info. Send it to us. come to you Send it to them and they'll let me know because i I'm always bothering you guys with facts and everything. I mean, I know i know that there are other demos recorded around this time that adam didn't Adam didn't like the sound of and apparently aren't very good. Actually, it's even mentioned, I think, in the documentary. or They touch on it.
00:48:46
Speaker
There were more songs recorded. i don't know if it's just different takes of these or if they're, you know, they had other songs in this era. They had The Greening of America. they had Open All Night. They had a Mona Lisa.
00:48:57
Speaker
And, you know i know, they probably had a few other songs that they didn't really play publicly or weren't at shows. But like there were there were definitely a bunch of songs written around around this time frame.
00:49:09
Speaker
And I don't know if they recorded any more of them. You've heard different things about there being like a 15 song demo. This one's 13. So I don't know if there was live tracks put on there or if there were other studio recordings done that they said, you know what, we don't want these to leak or whatever. I'm not sure.
00:49:26
Speaker
But yeah, anybody who knows anything, let these guys know. You can write us at the Sullivan Street PC. Sullivan Street and Street is written out, one word, and in PC at ProtonMail.com. I'll screen your message and you know and you and a Double G can can talk and the dive into the... um By the way, what was it that that Adam talked about? The first song he ever wrote was for his sister, right? like and i my sister sister yeah i want to hear he I want to hear that song.
00:49:55
Speaker
me too Hey, can i I ask everybody, since mine mine is lightning, but I'm curious if there was one song that didn't make it onto Counting Crows album out of the flying demos, which would be the one that you would choose?
00:50:12
Speaker
I think already said, I like Love love and Addiction, and i but Lightning probably would been my second choice. um Chris, did you? Same as you there, Eric. Okay. Love and Addiction with with ah with the Lightning, a second choice. What about you, Double G? 100% Marjorie. Oh, yeah, you said that, yeah. The the the sad thing is that it it it exists somewhere. It's just not, you know, there's a rough mix of it out there somewhere that somebody has, and I'm going to find it.
00:50:36
Speaker
get it to their hands. You know, if they don't, they might already, you got to come back on the show and tell us all about it. Listen, i but I really appreciate being on the show. I had a lot of fun. This is really cool. And I'm, I'm, know, I love to contribute anytime I can. I just love County Crows a lot. So any way I can contribute to the ah fandom of it, you know, I'll jump at the opportunity. Thank you so much.
00:51:00
Speaker
No, thank you. um Yeah, you know, Kyle asked him directly something like, why don't you relea like why don't you do another reissue? Or if you reissue like you know reissue satellites now, but put an extra disk just like you did with August...
00:51:16
Speaker
or And then you can have these tracks that are there. And Adam said something. didn't say no, but he's like, oh, you know, we just didn't plan things correctly. bad management. Or, you know, he kind of, he didn't really answer the question. And then he went into that both Desert Life and Hard Candy were likely to be released as... um LPs, right? the The vinyl, which I think they did release Desert Life, right? This last year? So I'm not a big fan. They're working on it. I think it's everything. yeah okay i I will say Satellites is the one that does have the ones that I, ah in particular, yeah suffocate it's Suffocate.
00:51:55
Speaker
I want Suffocate because Good Luck has circulated my saying to out tune good luck has circulated and know there's a live version of that too think one um whereas like right yeah like suffocate the there's not a great recording of that and so i think that one is the one we we need deeply for the record i am not the one who circulated good luck just just for the record it was not me i can promise you that But you like it nonetheless. It's a great song. um it's a guy you might have her I'm a fan of that song.
00:52:28
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. no i've seen that Well, thanks guys. That was a, that was a, that was a great complete recap and, and, and an important. album important part of counter career history that i've been wanting to get to for a couple of years and we finally did it so thanks so much uh any if you have uh ideas of something by the way a couple a handful of our i won't say more than a handful if we've had 45 shows maybe seven of the topics or so have been ah requests from listeners or ideas from listeners. So please, again, give us an email if there's a topic or song that you want us to cover. SullivanStreetPC at ProtownMail.com. And thanks for joining us for from our year sorry for Jeff Double G and Chris Miggs. Thanks for listening to us here on Sullivan Street.
00:53:14
Speaker
Goodbye.