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E171: Andrea Knabel
6.7k Plays3 years ago
Andrea Knabel was a fixer. She cared about people and wanted desperately to help them. That help took the form of being mothering to her younger sisters, of defending those she called a friend, of reminding people of their own strength when facing tough times, of bringing laughter to brighten the darkest of days. Now it is Andrea who needs the help, as she went missing on August 13th, 2019 in Louisville, Kentucky, after walking to her mother’s house during the early morning hours. Now it’s our turn to show we care by listening to and sharing her story.
The following are links to social media groups sharing about Andrea’s case and others. Please consider joining:
Andrea Knabel Missing in Louisville Case Discussion
Louisville Kentucky Crime News and Missing People
Lexington Kentucky Crime News and Missing People
Southern Indiana Crime News and Missing People
If you would like to help in additional ways, here are the links to the family’s GoFundMe as well as the link to buy a Finding Andrea shirt:
If you are looking for ways to support the podcast or to enter our giveaway, here are the links:
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Podcast Promo: Moms and Mysteries Podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Recommendations
00:00:00
Speaker
I want to take a quick moment to start off our show this week by giving the biggest shout out to some of our favorite hosts in the true crime podcasting world, Melissa and Mandy, from the Moms and Mysteries podcast. They are personable, empathetic, endearing, and just wonderful.
00:00:20
Speaker
Please help us to show them lots and lots of love by checking out their podcasts. If you haven't already heard of them, you will thank us later and leaving them a five star review. Tell them that Allison and I sent you their way. Now let's hear a little bit about their show.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hey guys, if you're looking for your next binge-worthy podcast and you like your true crime light on the gore, then you should check out our show, Moms and Mysteries, a true crime podcast hosted by myself, Mandy, and my dear friend, Melissa. Some of our recent episodes include the separate but equally intriguing murders of brothers Robert and Andrew Kissel, the Valentine's Day murder of professional bodybuilder, Ray McNeil, and a story that's close to our hearts about Jared Bridegan, a man who was ambushed and shot to death in front of his two-year-old daughter.
00:01:04
Speaker
Each Tuesday, we give our take on a new true crime story, balancing our delivery of facts and levity while still giving the stories the respect they deserve and making you feel like you're a part of our conversation. Moms & Mysteries was formerly known as Moms & Murder, but we still cover both the lesser known and the more familiar stories, and there are over 250 episodes to binge. So you can get started right now. Search Moms & Mysteries on your favorite podcast app and subscribe now so you never miss a new episode.
00:01:37
Speaker
Some people in life are simple, meaning that they live life and feel life simply. I aim to be like them. They trust simply because they believe in the good in the world and believe in the power of redemption. They love simply because they can.
00:02:02
Speaker
and they feel people deserve and need love. They see beauty in the world around them, simply because they are willing to push through darkness and actually look around. They laugh wholeheartedly, lungs full of breathy joy, simply because it's what feels right in the moment.
00:02:22
Speaker
They cry bursts of pain and hurt simply because they know all too well that sadness is too much to bear alone. They forgive over and over simply because they know how easily we as humans make mistakes. This week's case is about someone who lived and laughed and cried and trusted and forgave.
00:02:48
Speaker
Even when her own world was chaotic, she was the kind who would drop everything to help someone else, simply because she cared. And now her absence, after August 13, 2019, has left a void, a silence that those who know and love her must fill loudly with advocacy.
00:03:12
Speaker
simply because that's sometimes all that keeps them from crying and keeps our memory alive.
Introducing the Coffee and Cases Podcast
00:03:20
Speaker
This is the case of Andrea Knabel.
00:03:59
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:04:08
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families with each case. We encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:04:35
Speaker
Maggie, our case this week is a local one to us.
The Disappearance of Andrea Knabel
00:04:41
Speaker
Yes, as Andrea Knabel is from Louisville, Kentucky. And for our coverage of this case, I had the privilege of speaking with Andrea's younger sister, Erin,
00:04:53
Speaker
who was able to fill me in on the kind of person Andrea is, as well as all kinds of details about every aspect of the case. So I would just like to begin our episode by thanking her publicly for being such an advocate for her sister and for the strong conviction that she has to continue to fight, despite how draining I know that fight must be every minute of every day.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, and it's brave to continue doing that and speaking out for your loved one. Absolutely.
00:05:26
Speaker
Though they divorced when Andrea was 13, the girls' parents, Mike and Cheryl, raised their three daughters, Andrea, who obviously is at the center of our case this week, who was born in 1982, Erin, the middle daughter, who is the one that I spoke with this week, and Sarah, in an area of Louisville that's nestled between the Kentucky Expo Center
00:05:52
Speaker
and the Louisville Zoo. I love the Louisville Zoo. I know. Now while those two places are ones of bustling activity, the area where the small family had its roots is rather a quiet, staid, and historic neighborhood called Audubon Park.
00:06:11
Speaker
In fact, the area is actually the city of Autobahn Park within the city of Louisville. Interesting. And because of that, it actually has its own city hall with three full-time employees, a mayor, and even its own police force. Okay. Well, you go.
00:06:32
Speaker
To give you a sense of Audubon Park, here is what their mayor, Madeline Boseman, posted on the area's website message to new residents. Quote, Welcome to Audubon Park, an urban jewel in the midst of Louisville, known for its majestic trees, dogwoods, and many city parks.
00:06:52
Speaker
It was also designated a bird sanctuary in 1978 through the joint efforts of the Audubon Park Garden Club and the City of Audubon Park. The community hosts a variety of architectural styles and housing, including craftsmen, Tudor revival, Dutch colonial, neo-federal and neo-colonial, among others.
00:07:14
Speaker
In 1996, Audubon Park was granted inclusion in the National Register of Historic Places due to its cohesive group of structures and open spaces that reflected the historical development of suburban expansion in Louisville and Jefferson County areas during the early 20th century, and also in recognition for its high level of historic integrity.
00:07:37
Speaker
Audubon Park has strong support from grassroots community groups such as the Garden Club and Forest Board, who work tirelessly to promote and maintain the natural beauty of the park. Our neighborhood offers a broad range of year-round activities for residents, starting with the Festival of Dogwood in April, Independence Day Parade, yoga in the park on Saturdays, monthly park movie nights, and ending with Oktoberfest."
00:08:07
Speaker
Well, I want to move here. I know. Yeah, it just sounds like this super, I don't know, communal area. Everybody's getting together for yoga in the park on Saturday. Watching movies. I love that, or attending these little festivals.
00:08:27
Speaker
And it's those festivals that are connected to so many of the sisters' childhood memories. For example, Erin's voice, it actually lifted and the joy of the memory was so clear when she spoke of a house in the neighborhood where she remembers standing in the yard with her sister Andrea during the Dogwood Festival just in all of the choir
00:08:53
Speaker
that was singing on the porch of this house. They were all dressed in their historic outfits and they were just singing angelically. And she remembers just standing there with Andrea, you know, just watching in awe.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I think that description gives both of the town and those memories gives you an idea of just the beauty of the area. But it was also a very safe place. I mean, it's the kind of place not only with no violent crime, but the kind of place where most of the phone calls to the Audubon Park police are over things like somebody parked on the wrong side of the street or somebody's parked a couple of inches into my yard.
00:09:37
Speaker
Gotcha.
Andrea's Background and Life Challenges
00:09:38
Speaker
I mean those are the phone calls. Trivial tap things. Right. It was the ideal place to raise a family and the three girls made so many memories in that neighborhood and in their childhood home. So as I mentioned before, Andrea was the oldest of the three children. She was three years to the day.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yes older than middle daughter aaron in fact and this is so incredibly sweet. Instead of feeling jealous that her younger sister had the same birthday and that she had to share the spotlight. Erin recall that andrea would say that aaron had been the best birthday present. That is so sweet.
00:10:19
Speaker
And then 18 months after Erin came the youngest daughter, Sarah. OK, so relatively close in age then, all three of them. Yes. And growing up, the girls were very close with Andrea, obviously, because she's three years older than the middle, right? And then four and a half years older than the youngest. She kind of took on the role of second mother. Oh, yeah. Obviously, the oldest child is prone to do that.
00:10:44
Speaker
So Erin related to me that she and her younger sister Sarah, who both have red hair, while Andrea's hair is brown, that because of that similar hair color that she and Sarah had,
00:10:57
Speaker
and the close age, lots of people thought that Erin and Sarah were twins growing up. And because of their red hair, they were often teased by some of the other kids, which I love red hair. Me too. I kind of hope that we have, well, if we have a daughter, I really want her to have red hair. I don't know if that's possible. Anthony's beard's a little bit red, but I just think red-headed girls are so cute. I do too. But Erin and Sarah, they were teased because of their red hair.
00:11:24
Speaker
But Aaron said that every single time Andrea would come to the rescue and fake up for the two of them. That's just who Andrea was. I mean, she was the defender of everyone she loved.
00:11:40
Speaker
And she would do anything to protect them, despite the fact that she was also young. And so that's how she kind of got the nickname of Mother Andrea, even though she was only a couple years older. So if they were climbing, let's say, on the outside of the porch railing, it would be Andrea who would warn Aaron and Sarah that
00:12:00
Speaker
You're going to fall on that concrete and you're going to hurt yourself if you're not careful. See, I can just picture a young child, a young Andrea saying that. But I don't want you to misconstrue that trait to think that Andrea was a Debbie Downer, who was always just giving the warnings. In fact, she also had a way of making things so fun for her sisters and for her whole family.
00:12:25
Speaker
So, when their mom Cheryl would give the girls ice cream, it was Andrea who would make it into an ice cream eating contest. Oh, brain freezes. Yeah, and just make it even more fun. As if eating ice cream isn't fun enough. Right? Let's make it into a contest. And it was Andrea who would also keep the family laughing because she had this book
00:12:49
Speaker
of fun family pranks she would play. So I get the feeling that Andrea always had a way of keeping her family. Oh yeah. Cause you never know when her next little trick is coming. Right. Exactly. Even academically, Andrea was something special. She was so intellectually gifted that her parents, Mike and Cheryl,
00:13:10
Speaker
Knew that they had to put her in a school where she would be more challenged because she had been getting all A's She was consistently testing and the top like two to four percentiles on tests So they actually enrolled her in a local magnet school
00:13:26
Speaker
Good for them. Mm-hmm. And she continued to rise to the occasion because Maggie Andrea was always a go-getter. She was headstrong and determined and sure of her own ability to persevere with this, you know, ability to bring happiness and positivity to everyone around her. And these are qualities that Erin says she gets from their father.
00:13:51
Speaker
Oh, that's sweet. I know. So even after high school, Andrea continued to succeed when she attended the University of Louisville or UofL for our local listeners to major in marketing. Oh. And if that wasn't enough, Andrea also held down jobs all while she was in college, including at a CVS
00:14:16
Speaker
where she also excelled because eventually she was promoted to district manager. Wow. While she was a full-time student, she was also a district manager. Wow. Yeah. So this is why I'm saying so driven, so smart. She was just a people person. I mean, just so well-rounded.
00:14:39
Speaker
And after graduating UofL, she continued to work at CVS, but she started to realize that this job, it just wasn't really fulfilling to her. And her dad, Mike, commented in his interview with the Unfound podcast that really corporate life, just it wasn't going to be a fulfilling one for someone as independent and as Andrea and just a people person like her.
00:15:06
Speaker
So, being the people person that Andrea was, well, it wasn't always a positive thing though. I mean, for the most part.
00:15:17
Speaker
Andrea not only got along with everyone but with someone whom everybody enjoyed being around because like I said before she can make them laugh by being silly or just make them feel good about themselves by her positive affirmations because she believed in people and she believed in their ability to change for the better but she believed in that to a fault.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah, because sometimes that can be bad because not every person is going to change, even though we want them to. We can't fix everyone. Exactly. And Andrea was a fixer. I mean, she wanted to help people, which is wonderful for those who actually want to change, you know, to have somebody behind them cheering them on when they've made positive changes. Right.
00:16:02
Speaker
you know, coaching them through the lapses. But for people who never really desired to change in the first place, though, having someone give them, you know, these chants after chants after chants to prove themselves like Andrea did, it often led to people letting her down and taking advantage of her. Oh, for sure. Because they see, oh, I can get away with this. I can write with this. Oh, she she gave me another chance. Yeah. So Andrea loved
00:16:32
Speaker
fiercely. And as a result, I mean, obviously she often had her heart broken by those whom she trusted with it.
00:16:40
Speaker
By 2009, now with two children, two sons, and being a single mom, Andrea took a job as a Medicare analyst with Humana, hoping to both support her family and finally really feel like she's helping others through that position. And for quite some time, things were good in the way that
00:17:05
Speaker
And I know this is odd to say, but things were good in the way that the memories during this time were ones that seemed little at the time, but that looking back are so significant.
00:17:17
Speaker
Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, like the little moments that you don't realize are going to be things you remember years down the road. Exactly. Yeah, so this time was filled with memories of time spent with her sons, time spent with her sister, Erin, and Erin's children playing in the yard, or time spent singing along the favorite songs with some of their favorite people.
00:17:41
Speaker
And Erin recently posted a quote on one of her Facebook pages about her sister that I really feel like illustrates this time quite well. And it's a quote by John Zabat-Zinn. And I'd never read this quote before, but it really stood out to me and it reads, quote, the little things, the little moments, they aren't little, end quote. Yeah, because I think that
00:18:09
Speaker
oftentimes we're gonna we think that the things that shape like our kids lives the most is you know the trip to Disney World that they went on and while they'll remember that I really think that it's those little moments reading to them before they go to bed or pushing them in the swing or making that pause with them those are the moments that
00:18:33
Speaker
really send out to them and really shape who they are. And I think for us as adults too, that's true. And so now, obviously in that time period, those little or seemingly little at the time memories, those are the important and cherished moments now. The ones that really reveal the joy during that time in Andrea's life.
00:19:00
Speaker
Even during that time though, Maggie, Andrea still trusted her heart at times with the wrong men or trusted friends, you know, thinking that they were going to change, but who later took advantage of her good nature. And eventually by 2017 and 2018, some of those more negative influences in Andrea's life
00:19:27
Speaker
sadly became a more dominant feature. Her life during like the 2017-18 time period from my perspective was almost like a study in contrasts.
00:19:42
Speaker
On the one hand, the summer of 2018 was filled with memories made with her children and Erin's children again, playing together in the yard, jumping on the trampoline, with neighbor kids wanting to come over too because hers was the fun house. It was a time from this perspective of easiness, of sitting around with family just talking about life. It was a time when Erin told me she decided to plant zenias.
00:20:12
Speaker
And Andrea would immediately smile when seeing them. And she would text Erin pictures of the butterflies that would land on them until Erin just how happy that site made her. So that's one hand of what her life was like during this time. But it was at the same time, a period of increasing uncertainty and pressure. So, you know, I told you Andrea was a fixer.
00:20:42
Speaker
She trusted that everyone either had good in them or was willing to change to find that good. And so people from all walks of life came knocking on Andrea's door and she was not one to turn any of them away. And Andrea's family saw the effect that it was having on Andrea herself by inviting all of these different people to have a space in her life.
00:21:11
Speaker
Oh, I'm sure that can be very draining. Just as teachers, it can be draining hearing the personal issues of your students living with it all the time and being that involved. I'm sure very heavy. Right. And you know, you're surrounding yourself with all of these different people. And so her family tried to talk to her, you know, just saying, I'm just asking that you learn to set healthy boundaries.
00:21:38
Speaker
So you don't continue to get taken advantage of by some of those individuals. But Andrea either thought that she didn't need protecting or she was so blinded by this desire to help that she would often overlook in both friendships and in romantic relationships, red flags. And were these people that she would have considered like close friends or was romantically involved in or were these people that were just like,
00:22:08
Speaker
acquaintances. A lot of them starting during this time period are more acquaintances and not close friends. Okay. So the problem with this newfound crowd as Erin so astutely stated when we spoke is she said
00:22:29
Speaker
With the people you're around, it's never just one way. You influence them, but they also influence you. Oh, yeah. That's why it's so important to surround yourself with a correct group of people. I mean, we tell our children this all the time.
00:22:47
Speaker
It is a lesson that, you know, unfortunately, most of us don't want to believe until life proves otherwise, you know, when we have that realization moment. And I honestly do feel like there's a little of Andrea and all of us that wants to believe that
00:23:05
Speaker
this partner or this loved one or this friend will change, right? That they'll be the ones who will make a realization of how they're acting and they'll see how much I'm trying to help them. But a lot of times eventually we're the ones who finally make the realization instead that I have to end this relationship or end this friendship because I have to protect myself.
00:23:35
Speaker
But Andrea hadn't made that realization yet. And that's when what I see as the downward spiral began. In 2018, the man Andrea was engaged to was sent to prison on drug trafficking charges.
00:23:57
Speaker
By late 2018, Andrea had lost her job at Humana. Now, one thing that I commend Erin and her dad Mike for whenever they discuss Andrea's case is their willingness to concede that there may have been more going on in Andrea's life during this time than they knew. And
00:24:26
Speaker
one of those areas is with that job loss. So Andrea told everybody that she had been laid off and that could very well be true. Humana did have significant layoffs during this time.
00:24:41
Speaker
But the family also admit that, well, they also had heard other rumors that Andrea could have lost the job because she was working from home and she wasn't disciplined at it. Yeah. Or they had also heard that she had just shown up late for work one too many times and she was let go as a result.
00:25:04
Speaker
And so her family admits, you know, we don't know which of those scenarios is true, but regardless, Andrea was now unemployed. Right. Regardless of which of those scenarios caused. Right. She now doesn't have a job. And then also problematically, she had relied so much on credit cards previously that she had to file for bankruptcy. Okay. So she has a lot going on personally then. Yes. So,
00:25:34
Speaker
Fiance sent to prison, unemployed, having to file for bankruptcy. And as if even one of those life experiences wouldn't be anxiety-laden enough, things in Andrea's life continue to go from bad to worse.
The Events Leading to Andrea's Disappearance
00:25:57
Speaker
in late January 2019 Andrea had to leave her car on the side of the road it was a Saturday evening and when she returned the following day on Sunday to retrieve her car it had actually been
00:26:14
Speaker
demolished. Okay. Yes, presumably by a snowplow, though, there were no reports of an accident like that, that had been made. So none of the city snowplows had mentioned, you know, that they had made contact or had an accident with a vehicle. But Maggie scroll down to see a picture of the damage that was done that Andrea saw when she went to retrieve her car.
00:26:42
Speaker
I mean, the back end of her car, the trunk of her car is smashed in. And you can tell when you look at the side of it that it was done by a plow because it has like that kinda scooped effect with like a very sharp cut off. Yeah. So imagine you think you're just going to pick your car back up, right? And that everything will be fine. And now you see it in this condition.
00:27:11
Speaker
After everything else has already happened to you. Right. Yeah. After the car accident, Andrea, of course, had to rely on other people frequently for rides. By the spring of 2019, Andrea was evicted from her apartment.
00:27:32
Speaker
So again, you know, it's just kind of traumatic life event after traumatic life event after traumatic life event, you know, thinking things will be okay, traumatic life event. I mean, it just, it seemed almost to snowball. But through it all, still, she continued to help others and still
00:27:55
Speaker
Some continued to take advantage of her. And just to illustrate how horribly some of the people in her life treated her, these acquaintances, she returned one day to her apartment. This was right after she found out that she was gonna be evicted. She returned one day to her apartment to find that all of the television sets in her apartment had been stolen.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah. And these are from quote unquote friends. Wow. So these were obviously extremely hard times for Andrea. And even when things looked like they might look up, they didn't. So Andrea had actually gotten a new car right after the snowplow incident, but it turned out to be a lemon.
00:28:52
Speaker
So it was almost as though Andrea couldn't catch a break and it was clearly wearing on her. And Andrea's family, they didn't know what all was going on in Andrea's life at the time.
00:29:05
Speaker
but they knew that whatever it was, they couldn't fix anything or get to the root of the issues without Andrea living with them. Oh, and I'm sure they offered it because this family seems really close. Oh, yeah. And they did. And you realize if you're only seeing somebody every once in a while, then it's easy to hide troubles and issues. So even with the visits that they did get,
00:29:34
Speaker
They knew that something was wrong though. And it was probably even more so wrong than what they could see because they were only seeing her every so often. Right. Some of the family members feared that Andrea had turned to using street drugs because of the company that she could write. Others worried that maybe she had begun to abuse her prescription to Adderall.
00:29:59
Speaker
because obviously prescription abuse is a huge problem in our country. And still others worried that maybe she had had a mental break. And honestly, who could blame her if she had because she's dealing with a lot. But no matter the cause, because they love her, they often brought up their concerns to Andrea. Because if you love somebody,
00:30:26
Speaker
You tell them your concerns and how you feel. Her dad was actually worried about potential substance abuse. And he offered to pay for Andrea to go to rehab. But. Well, I mean, again, I feel you do when you truly love someone. Mm hmm. But Andrea refused, arguing that she didn't need that help. And she actually acted hurt that he would even believe that she had been in need of rehab.
00:30:56
Speaker
And I asked Erin if Andrea were the type of person who if she did need to go to rehab would have accepted that for her kid's sake. But Erin said, you know, it's hard to say. She said, you know, I want to say that she would. But Erin also admitted that Andrea was so stubborn and so sure of her ability to overcome any negative circumstances that
00:31:26
Speaker
she may have honestly believed that if she were addicted that she was powerful enough to make the choice to make herself better without that help. Right. And so that hurt from her dad's offer could have been genuine or it could have just been, you know, more anger or upset that he found out what was going on or suspected what may be going on. Right. And, and we, we don't know. And I have to add this here because
00:31:56
Speaker
I think it's so telling, even during all these negative events happening in her life, Andrea was still the kind of person who would drop everything that she was doing to help others because during the same time, Erin was in the process of a divorce. And if she needed to talk, Andrea would forget everything else that she had to do and would go to just sit and talk with her sister, Erin.
00:32:26
Speaker
After her eviction, at least, Andrea moved into her mother's home.
00:32:34
Speaker
where her family felt, you know, this is the best place for her to be, because we're all close by to help. So even though the girls' parents were divorced, Andrea's father lived in Louisville, still in the city. Her sister, Erin, had moved to a home after her divorce. It was just about seven to eight blocks away. Oh, so a short walk, even. Oh, yeah. It was like a 12-minute walk if they wanted to visit one another.
00:33:01
Speaker
And as I said, Andrea moved into her mother's home. So this was a home that they grew up in. But her mother at the time was actually staying with a friend because a pipe had burst in mom Cheryl's upstairs bathroom.
00:33:16
Speaker
So she obviously needed to have some renovations done. It was, I guess, long needed. And so Cheryl had invited youngest daughter Sarah and Sarah's fiance Ethan to move into her home to remodel the bathrooms. So Sarah and Ethan were actually living in Lexington.
00:33:36
Speaker
at the time but they agreed to temporarily move to Louisville to move into their mom's house to help with the renovation so so she's technically in mom's house but she's actually living with her younger sister and the sister's fiance correct.
00:33:52
Speaker
Okay. But Cheryl, the mom, she would bring dinner by most evenings and then would just go back to her friend's house to stay. So during the time that Andrea was in her mom's house, while she continued to deny any drug use, Andrea did accept help and agreed to begin seeing a therapist. And it's that fact, I don't know, it kind of makes me
00:34:22
Speaker
I personally want to say that had Andrea been suffering from addiction as well, that she would have accepted the help in that regard because she's so willing to accept this offer of therapy. Or maybe she thought the therapist could help with the addiction as well. That's true. If whatever root cause, if there is addiction,
00:34:47
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that Andrea and her family didn't have discussions and arguments often about what the best course of action would be for Andrea. After all, while they didn't know what the problem was, one thing was certain that they love Andrea enough to want to get her help in whatever capacity she needed, even if it made her upset with them, because that's what love is.
00:35:16
Speaker
And the way she was living after all those personal tragedies was not the Andrea they knew. I mean, she would stay up late. She would sleep in all too often. Like I said, she was around a crowd of people with whom her family either wasn't fond or wasn't even introduced to. And Erin actually said that she always knew that if somebody came to her to this day,
00:35:43
Speaker
and says that they were close with Andrea and they say, Oh, yeah, Erin, I know you're Andrea's sister. But if she doesn't know them, if Andrea never introduced her to them, then she said, obviously Andrea kept them from her for a reason.
00:35:58
Speaker
Oh, you know, and that makes sense because Andrea was the protector. So if it's someone that could have potentially been dangerous or whatever, I can see her not introducing her family to them. Right. But the problem was that even though Andrea kept her family away from these acquaintances, those acquaintances were still around. I mean, obviously previously in her apartment, but now they're still around in the family home.
00:36:27
Speaker
And sometimes with no one else but Andrea at home. And, you know, I can't blame her family for being nervous about that because I remember the quote unquote friend of Andrea. Yeah, they stole her TV. Exactly. So, you know, what's going to happen to items that don't even belong to their quote unquote friend? Yeah.
00:36:48
Speaker
And with those renovations going on in Cheryl's home, I can only imagine that there were expensive tools lying around and things like that. So Cheryl had actually made the decision to not give Andrea a key.
00:37:03
Speaker
Erin hadn't been aware of that choice of not giving Andrea a key initially. She actually found out one day when she and Andrea had been at a park with their kids and Erin brought Andrea back to their mom's house. And when they got there, Sarah wasn't home. Oh, she couldn't get in. So Andrea let Erin know, you know, I'm going to have to wait until Sarah gets back. I'm not able to get in because I don't have a key. Now I do want to pause here.
00:37:30
Speaker
And I feel like I'm gonna pause a lot in this episode to say that there has been some undue criticism of Cheryl and Sarah and Ethan. Well, Sarah and Ethan because they were living there during the renovation for not giving Andrea a key. Even going so far,
00:37:53
Speaker
as to make ridiculous, appalling, and infuriating claims that her family doesn't love her because of the fact that they didn't give her a key. That's a little extreme. That is ludicrous to me. I mean, they are keeping her in their home, trying to get her help. And people want to say that they don't care about her because she didn't have a key?
00:38:21
Speaker
Come on. And like you said, we don't know all the people that are in her life at this moment. Right. And those people could potentially be dangerous and you wouldn't want them just left.
00:38:37
Speaker
unsupervised in that home because we don't even really know all that's going on in Andrea's personal life right now, let alone the people she's bringing in. Right. But they clearly love Andrea. I mean, that has nothing to do with this key situation. Yes. In the days leading up to Andrea's disappearance, many people
00:38:58
Speaker
had come actually to visit her mother's home, but that was to see the car. Remember I said she had gotten a new car. It turned out to be a lemon. So she actually posted for sale. And so all these random people are actually coming to her mother's home, but to see the car and no one seemed interested in purchasing it.
00:39:21
Speaker
So, again, things aren't looking so great in Andrea's life. She had actually also developed sores on her face. She believed that it was an infection and she had actually gotten some medicated lotion to put on it, but the lotion wasn't helping. She was picking at it in her anxiety. Now, again,
00:39:45
Speaker
Could this have been drug related? Yeah, there's lots of speculation. Some do wonder if the sores were the result of drug use. And again, her family does not deny that it may have been, but it also might have been the result of a flare up of eczema, which was something that runs in the family. Oh yeah, Anthony has eczema and gets places on his face and they turn into like little
00:40:12
Speaker
scabby wounds if he picks at it right and and she was picking at it so i mean just like my comment about accepting therapy
00:40:22
Speaker
part of me. And I know I don't want to seem naive and to just say, you know, oh, she, you know, of course she wasn't, you know, involved with drugs. And her family says she may have been. But I also don't know how eager somebody with facial sores do to drug abuse would be and wanting to see a doctor to get help for those sores to heal. And so I feel like
00:40:47
Speaker
you know, if it were due to drug abuse, then that person would be worried that, you know, whatever doctor treating the sores would recognize the source of the issue and then, oh, I'm going to be in trouble. And as far as I know, no doctor who Andrea saw mentioned that the sores had come from drug use. And I feel like that would definitely be a test that would be done. Or they would just be able to tell about looking at it.
00:41:15
Speaker
So there's definitely things that make me question, you know, whether that jump to drug use is a bit too, you know, too big of a leap. And, you know, I find it sad that I need to say this in any case like this that we cover, where there's even the potential of drug use, but I need to get this off of my chest first.
00:41:42
Speaker
Even if there were drug abuse in this case, and again, I'm not convinced that there is, that doesn't mean that the victim's story is any less deserving to be told or that the family is any less desperate for answers. Right. Like next week, my story will be about potential prostitutes and that doesn't make their story any less deserving. Right. And second,
00:42:09
Speaker
This stage of Andrea's life was only a small snippet in the grand scope of her life. She was, is, and always will be all of those positive traits that I've mentioned throughout this episode and more. And I beg you to never forget that.
00:42:34
Speaker
Right. So as we're going on in these theories, we just need to keep in mind and the story that who Andrea was at her core. Right. Exactly. And not being defined by what happens, you know, or even potentially happened in a span of a few months of this topic. Here is what her sister, Erin had to say. Someone has said before that she was too good for this world and that
00:43:02
Speaker
I mean, that rings true to me. I know that a lot of people talk about Andrea's problems and issues that she was having in those couple of years leading up to going missing. But to me, that was just a very small part of her life. And she's always been an angel to me, you know, just the best sister ever. So none of those problems that people talk about really mattered to me. On the evening of August 12th, 2019,
00:43:28
Speaker
Mom Cheryl had brought Chinese food to her home for the family to eat. And while sitting around the table, the common topic of conversation, Andrea's life came up. So Cheryl urged Andrea to get help. Sarah backed up her mom and kind of feeling ganged up on. Andrea actually went upstairs to her room to gather herself.
00:43:56
Speaker
And when she returned downstairs, Andrea said that she wanted to get the face sores looked at again, because like I said, that medicated lotion, it wasn't working. And she actually asked to be taken to the hospital to get it looked at.
00:44:10
Speaker
So her sister, Sarah's fiance, Ethan, drove Andrea to the hospital, stopping to get her McDonald's along the way. So that was a nice gesture. But rather than having to wait at the hospital for hours before Andrea could be seen, Andrea actually had a ride sharing gift card. And so she had said, exactly. So she said, you know, if you drop me off, I'll use that gift card to return home after I've been seen.
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Speaker
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00:46:32
Speaker
to receive 20% off your purchase. When Andrea returned home, however, she went to the front door and knocked, because remember, she doesn't have a key. No answer. She tried again. Still no answer. And so because she doesn't have a key, you know, if Sarah and Ethan don't let her in, she doesn't have a way to get in.
00:47:02
Speaker
How late was it when she got home? This was around, I'm going to say 11 to 11 15. Okay. And I say that because after she realized that she couldn't get in, Andrea made the walk to Aaron's new home. But remember, is this close? Oh yeah. It's about a 12 minute walk. There was actually a cut through walk across the small little footbridge that really only locals to these neighborhoods knew about.
00:47:32
Speaker
that would take Andrea from Audubon Park to the neighborhood where Erin was living. So, and she got to Erin's house around 1130. So that's why I said she probably got home from the hospital around like 11 to 1115. Okay. And she actually found Erin sitting on her front porch talking to her best friend Michelle. Her kids, Erin's kids were already asleep inside.
00:47:56
Speaker
And at this point, I will clarify during this time, Andrea's sons were on their visitation days with their dads. Okay. So when Andrea approached, it was almost as though all the hurt that she'd been carrying over the past few hours of feeling getting up on and all of that just kind of burst out.
00:48:20
Speaker
And so she told Erin about everything that had happened that evening. And Erin has always been the kind who thinks before she speaks. And because of that, she's always able to kind of stay calm and read situations to figure out what people need. Which is probably why Andrea needed a good vent session. Exactly. And so that's exactly what Erin gave her. She was like, all night she's had people telling her
00:48:48
Speaker
you know what she should be doing. Right now, she just wants to talk. So Erin let her talk. And after Andrea had said everything that she needed, Erin actually suggested to Andrea that she go, you know, go inside, lie down for a bit, cool down, because it was a warm night, right? We're talking about August, and just relax. And after that, she said, I will drive you back over to mom's house.
00:49:16
Speaker
So Andrea did, she went in, she relaxed for about an hour and a half. So now it's about, you know, one ish in the morning. And she actually made plans with Aaron to, for them to take their kids to the park again in the next couple of days. And Aaron drove Andrea back over to their mom's house and dropped her off. But about 15 minutes later, Andrea was back at Aaron's apartment.
00:49:44
Speaker
asking to stay the night saying that again, she had knocked on the door and no one had answered. Is that normal this late at night? I do not know. I know that from the research that I did that Andrea did have a habit of kind of staying up late or staying out late. So I don't know. And we'll, we'll talk about that cause
00:50:11
Speaker
Sarah and Ethan have said that they didn't hear her either time, which could absolutely be true. Right. So they were home though, but they were home. That's what they said. Yeah. Was that they didn't hear her, but there's obviously speculation to the contrary that they did. And again, I mean, and, and Aaron didn't say anything about this. I didn't ask her about it, but you know,
00:50:36
Speaker
If Andrea did make it a habit of staying out too late and then waking everybody up to get let in, I would understand the frustration. You know what I mean? And we'll get to
00:50:50
Speaker
It wasn't as though they were thinking they were just leaving her out and, you know, obviously. And it could be they like sleep with a fan on and didn't hear her. I have to sometimes sleep with little earbuds in because Anthony snores so loud. So maybe it was something like that. But this night, Andrea isn't let in again. So she goes back to Erin's apartment asking to stay the night.
00:51:15
Speaker
saying, you know, like I said, she couldn't get back in. But Erin was a little bit nervous to let her sister stay for several reasons. First, it was extremely late at this point, and Erin had to work early the next morning.
00:51:32
Speaker
and she had just moved into this neighborhood. She was, remember, she had just gone through a divorce, so she's attempting to rebuild her life, and she was worried, you know, like the mom, like everybody, that given the history of the people who Andrea would try to help, who would then take advantage, that, you know, that next morning when Erin's at work, that Andrea might invite one of those people over the next day,
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, Erin doesn't want to lose what she's just worked so hard to gain back. I mean, I can't blame her. I can't either. Yeah. But the biggest fear came from a place much harder to follow through with. And that's the place of tough love. Oh, yeah, for sure. Because Erin and her family had
00:52:19
Speaker
conversations about how best to help Andrea, you know, no matter what it was that was going on with her recently. And that was to help her safely get to the point where she would want to get help for whatever was causing these negative changes. And we say this all the time, like you have to want to help yourself.
00:52:41
Speaker
If you're right, exactly. You have to be one that wants to change. Exactly. And many people around the family had criticized them for being like enablers.
00:52:53
Speaker
You know, and Erin admitted to me, she said, you know, it's hard to see your loved one hurting and in need and to not be the one to provide them help. You know, especially so when you're saying no to somebody like Andrea, who, like I illustrated before, would ignore her own problems to come and help you work through yours.
00:53:15
Speaker
But Erin had been told over and over that telling Andrea no was necessary. And remember, she's also trying to teach Andrea to establish healthy boundaries and why those are so important. And now it's as though Erin's trying to convince herself of those same healthy boundaries.
00:53:36
Speaker
So Erin actually spoke with her dad to get advice and he told her as well that, you know, it was doing the right thing to not let Andrea stay. Right? Because it's, it would be enabling a behavior, but definitely go ahead and call her mom, let her know so she can reach out to Sarah and Ethan, you know, to tell them to let Andrea in. So Erin,
00:54:01
Speaker
probably was telling herself, and I'm sure we all would in this situation, kind of like a mantra, this is for Andrea's own good. She may be angry and upset now, but one day she may look back and thank me. Yeah, she'll see this in the long run that it was good. And so she told Andrea, who was standing at her back door crying, no.
00:54:26
Speaker
And I know that had to be so hard for her. Oh yes. I mean saying that word, that single word broke Erin's heart. It broke her so much that
00:54:38
Speaker
After she told her that and Andrea walked away, Erin actually went to the window to watch her sister walk just to make sure that she was OK. And she said, had she turned around and continued to ask her if she had seen her just sobbing uncontrollably, she probably would have opened the door and been like, OK, just come in. But she felt better when she looked out because she saw Andrea kind of scrolling through her phone.
00:55:06
Speaker
You know, so it was almost like she's thinking, OK, who can I call or text or contact in terms of my friends to maybe come pick her up or make other arrangements for the night?
00:55:18
Speaker
And Erin figured, and this is why I said a second ago with Sarah and Ethan, even if they had been frustrated and decided not to let her in, probably were thinking about the same scenario because Erin figured that the worst that would happen that night would be that Andrea would sleep in her car in the driveway because on several previous occasions,
00:55:42
Speaker
Andrea had gotten mad at their mom and by choice and out of stubbornness Had gone out to sleep in her car Like I'm gonna sleep in my car. I'm not even gonna sleep under your same roof. She is very strong head like a strong-headed person Yes, so, you know, they're all thinking even Erin is thinking, you know if Andrea can't get a hold of anyone and still can't get in then sleeping in the car and
00:56:11
Speaker
was always a viable option. But as the family soon learned, that didn't happen. The next morning, so now we're on August 13th, 2019, Cheryl texted Erin and Sarah to see if they had heard from Andrea that morning, and they both texted that they hadn't.
00:56:34
Speaker
And you know, Erin wasn't thinking, even though Erin figured that Andrea was going back to her mom's house with Sarah and Ethan, she didn't necessarily think it was unusual because their mom texted at 10 a.m. And remember, Andrea often slept late, like until noon or later. So she's thinking, oh, maybe she just slept in or whatever. But when Cheryl texted them both again that afternoon around 3.30 or 4 to see if either one of the daughters had heard from Andrea and they still hadn't,
00:57:03
Speaker
That's when they began to worry. So Erin immediately stepped into action. She started calling family. She started calling Andrea's friends, basically calling anyone and everyone, you know, she could to find out if anyone had heard from Andrea and
00:57:21
Speaker
She heard from all of those people who she got in touch with that they hadn't seen Andrea. But there was one phone call that Erin was waiting for a response from before she would let herself get too worried.
00:57:35
Speaker
because she hadn't yet heard back from one of Andrea's closest friends. She's thinking, OK, well, maybe she's over there and she's just upset or whatever. So Erin is waiting for that return phone call. She also continued to try to call her sister. She was leaving messages, apologizing for turning her away just hours before.
00:58:00
Speaker
And while the family was concerned, obviously, they also believed that Andrea was, you know, just angry with them or hurt by them and needed time to calm down. Right. I mean, Aaron told me that in a lot of their family disagreements that this was kind of a common pattern, this cooling down period.
00:58:23
Speaker
that when people in the family would get upset with one another, they would speak their peace. But then they would kind of step away to calm back, calm down. And then when they did come back, it was with love, like nothing had ever happened. Gotcha. And so they're thinking, okay, well, maybe, maybe she's just angry. You know, and thinking about the night before,
00:58:46
Speaker
Erin said that by nature, Andrea was very emotional and expressive. And that was the case when she was happy and when she was sad. And that because she cares so deeply, she's often very sensitive to others and their feelings about her. And feeling confronted could sometimes feel catastrophic at times for Andrea.
The Investigation and Theories
00:59:12
Speaker
when she came by Erin's that evening and then later, you know, that wee morning hours of the 13th, even though she was upset, Erin said that emotional state was normal for Andrea. So it wasn't as though Andrea was clearly having a breakdown by any means.
00:59:32
Speaker
Right. And when Aaron had suggested going back to her mom's house that first time, Andrea had gone willingly. Yes. And so it wasn't as though there was something that happened that night where Aaron immediately was like, Oh no, this was a diff, you know, she was acting differently than normal or, or anything like that. So none of them could have imagined that they would never see nor hear from Andrea again.
01:00:00
Speaker
It was when Erin finally heard back from Andrea's close friend with whom that, you know, they were all convinced that she was likely staying because she and this friend had once been roommates and found that that friend actually hadn't seen Andrea for nearly a week, that the family's concern grew from worry to fear.
01:00:24
Speaker
the day they finally heard back from that friend on August 17th, 2019, four days after the wee morning hours when Andrea was last seen, Erin called to file a missing persons report. So it took a friend that long. So it was a while. Yeah. So several days to, but again, they're thinking, well, maybe we just really made her upset this time, you know? And, you know, Andrea is an adult.
01:00:54
Speaker
But the police moved slowly, or at least it felt that way to Andrea's family. Erin actually described it best. She said that it feels that way, I guess, because as the family member of the loved one who needs finding or needs help, you feel like the whole world is on fire. But the police work in contrast is so methodical and measured. It's not rushed. It's not,
01:01:23
Speaker
you know, impassioned. Always felt that way too. Like when my grandma was diagnosed with cancer and it took a while to get back, you know, the extra tests that they did, it's like, why is this taking so long? This is breast cancer. Like we need to start treatment, you know? But like to us, our whole world was on fire, like she said. But to them, they have a method to what they're doing.
01:01:50
Speaker
And I mean, like I said, as far as law enforcement was concerned, Andrea's an adult. Right, so she could have just laughed on her own. Exactly. And there wasn't evidence of a crime having taken place. So despite anything that her family might say that Andrea just wasn't the type to just leave, especially to leave her kids, the police doesn't really have any evidence to prove otherwise.
01:02:16
Speaker
As I'm sure I would do as well, the family decided to do what they could to continue to look for Andrea. And so they actually began calling people to ask questions, putting together timelines. They even began working with a private investigator named Tracy Leonard, who's actually now become a close trusted friend of the family. So they began with her social media, but there hadn't been any posts or any activity since she was last seen.
01:02:45
Speaker
And Andrea was known to communicate with people primarily through Facebook Messenger, but after gaining access to her social media, law enforcement actually told family that they didn't find any information to aid in the search, which Erin is saying. I don't know why they couldn't because that was her main source of communication. But the main issue, of course, is that they also didn't have Andrea's phone. Have they ever found it? No.
01:03:16
Speaker
and her phone was going straight to voicemail. But once they were able to get information from the phone company, they did gain some information because remember when Andrea was walking away from Erin's home in those morning hours. Yeah, she was scrolling through her phone, right? That's right, which meant her phone would be pinging. So those pings revealed that Andrea had made it back to her mom's house that second time.
01:03:45
Speaker
So even after Erin tells her no, Andrea leaves to go back and ends up back at her mom's house. And she figures that that was Andrea and not just somebody with Andrea's phone, which sadly is, you know, a scenario that we do have to consider because the pangs it showed
01:04:08
Speaker
taking that shortcut between the neighborhoods across the walking bridge. And remember that was something that locals knew of. That was the way that Andrea would have gone. And it shows Andrea getting back to her mom's house around 2 a.m. And the activity showed that she was at her mom's house, or at least that's where the pinging was coming from.
01:04:32
Speaker
until either her phone was turned off or the battery died. Interesting. So she did make it back home, we assume. Yes. And there was a brief blip of activity around 6.30 AM, but it wasn't long enough to register a paying and a location. Instead, it was almost as though the phone was turned on and because of a dead battery or some of the reason it immediately turned back off.
01:05:02
Speaker
So if someone had, say, picked up Andrea or she had walked somewhere after arriving to her mom's house, it didn't appear as though they had any way of telling. But luckily, private investigator Tracy Leonard knew a trick, Google Dashboard.
01:05:26
Speaker
Which I've never heard of. I had neither. So apparently if you have been logged on to something like say Gmail on your phone and you have also been logged onto that same application on a computer.
01:05:42
Speaker
that computer can be used to determine the location of your phone. Interesting. So Leonard had actually recorded his actions in accessing this information so that it was documented. And so he would be able to remember the process later and kind of find the same information that he did on this
01:06:05
Speaker
attempt, but the activity ended up showing new and critical information for the investigation. And this is information that just recently was revealed. The family actually found that Andrea did not merely go to her mom's house and stay there for several hours as they had previously believed.
01:06:28
Speaker
Instead, the dashboard activity showed that she had walked because the dashboard even shows the speed of movement so they could determine that she had walked and wasn't, say, picked up in a car. Right, because don't the pings give more of a general location? So the movement actually showed Andrea, or again, at least her phone,
01:06:54
Speaker
spending several hours at a nearby house before the phone died. A home about two to three blocks from her mom's house. So the family could now kind of allow themselves to hope for some answers. Ironically, the house where it appears that Andrea had gone,
01:07:20
Speaker
was the very one that held all those childhood memories. Oh, of the singing choir? Yes. At that festival? Yep. The home was actually being rented out, but Aaron was able to find the owner's name from a neighbor.
01:07:35
Speaker
And she tried to contact the homeowner, but he was out of town. So instead, she spoke with his relatives who assured her that he would be in contact with Aaron as soon as possible. And the reason she was so desperate to get a hold of him is because the family was trying to gain permission for the cadaver dogs to be able to search the property, right? Because now we're years out. This is, again, a recent development. So we're years out from Andrea having gone missing.
01:08:04
Speaker
And the cadaver dogs, this is a process that only takes a few minutes to rule out a location. And it would, you know, obviously provide crucial details to the family in their search for Andrea, at least rolling out a place. Was the home being rented out at the time Andrea went missing or at the time this discovery was made? That is a fantastic question. I know that it was being rented out at the time that the discovery was made.
01:08:34
Speaker
I would be interested to know if like her friends or something like that lived there. Here's what's even more odd about the situation. And it is that when they finally heard back from the homeowner, and this was on the day that the search was scheduled to take place with the cadaver dogs, the owner refused to let them search the property without a warrant from the FBI, which was something that obviously the family did. That's weird.
01:09:03
Speaker
So to this day, that home where the cell activity places, at least Andrea's phone, if not Andrea herself, has yet to be searched. I feel like we need a petition or something. So now all we are left with are theories and questions. So Maggie, let's get into those. Let me preemptively eliminate the theories that I personally believe are ludicrous.
01:09:34
Speaker
There are people out there who I feel just want to point fingers and immediately place blame on Andrea's family. I mean, I can see that they would be mad that she wasn't let into the house, but I don't see how you could be mad beyond that. I know. Well, let's, so let's start there. There are people out there who blame Sarah and Ethan likely because, you know, they didn't let her in that night.
01:10:02
Speaker
They also have chosen not to be kind of active, visible faces in the fight to find Andrea. But, you know, all family members react differently. I mean, I've covered cases where family members say, you know, I really don't feel comfortable talking about the case or it's too hard to talk about it. And I mean, there could be guilt there. Again, I didn't talk to Sarah. I don't know, but there could be guilt that they didn't let her in.
01:10:32
Speaker
or didn't hear her or whatever it was. And they have told their family that they did not hear Andrea either time that she came by. And while we don't know if that's true or not, if I'm going to err, I would prefer to err on the side of believing someone who hasn't proven that there's a reason to distrust them.
01:10:59
Speaker
Yes. And I think their actions point to them being good people. I mean, they moved from Lexington to Louisville to help their mom remodel a bathroom. They're trying to get their sister's life straightened out. Like, I think there's a lot of love there. And there are a lot of people also out there who don't know the full story, who say, well, you know, Sarah and Ethan moved away from Louisville shortly after Andrea disappeared.
01:11:27
Speaker
And they think that, you know, that must mean that they're guilty, but they don't live there. Exactly. They are not from Louisville. They were only there for the remodeling. So it wasn't as though, you know, it was specifically linked to Andrea's disappearance. It was linked to the finish of the remodel. There are also people who blame Andrea's mom for not giving Andrea a key or who blame Aaron.
01:11:56
Speaker
because she turned Andrea away.
01:11:58
Speaker
And I think that's so sad. Oh, it makes me so mad. And they blame Erin because she doesn't get overly emotional when new leads come in. OK, first, first, both Cheryl and Erin have had the cadaver dog search in and around their homes, not just because, you know, obviously they're dedicated to finding Andrea. And those are some of the last places where Andrea was. But also, sadly, just to show people that they have nothing to hide.
01:12:27
Speaker
which like you said, is so sad that they would have to go through that effort to show that they had nothing to do with the disappearance of their loved ones. And second, Erin doesn't let herself get too excited because can you imagine how that would affect you emotionally every time there's a false lead? Or like with the cadaver dog fiasco with the neighborhood home, when you're thinking, okay, we finally found, hey, we think that she's here, we're gonna have a search, we'll finally get some answers and then to be turned away at the last minute.
01:12:57
Speaker
I mean, this experience in a family is enough to destroy you regardless. Right. And you've got to adapt and you've got to protect your own heart. And if you've got young kids too, like with Aaron, then you have to be even more protective because of that ancillary effect, you know, that a roller coaster of emotion would have on them. And as if those reasons not to attack Aaron aren't enough, just let me tell you this.
01:13:24
Speaker
Erin couldn't even walk at, makes me want to cry. Erin couldn't even walk out of her back door for a year after Andrea disappeared because every time she did, all she saw was her sister's face and all she heard was the crying. And she obviously fights
01:13:49
Speaker
to find answers in Andrea's case. She's doing interviews. She has the social media stuff. And she runs all of that. Why would she do that if she was somehow involved in the disappearance of Andrea? So trust me on this one. Never doubt Erin. Never.
01:14:10
Speaker
And another crazy theory is from those who argue that Andrea somehow staged her own disappearance because she had done some volunteer work for Missing in America. Okay. So she did volunteer for the group. That is true. But that fact is
01:14:30
Speaker
In so many podcasts and documentaries about Andrea completely over emphasized as though Andrea were, you know, some private investigator with a specific set of skills like Liam Neeson and the movie taken, you know, and that just like you have to be a very
01:14:48
Speaker
special type of person to be able to stage your own disappearance and get away with it. Exactly. Yeah. And the final theory that I want to debunk from the beginning is based on some of the information that's in the investigation discovery coverage of Andrea's case, because some of their focus, in my opinion, and again, this is strictly my opinion, based upon the research, a lot of their focus is misguided or implies certain theories.
01:15:19
Speaker
to be likely that in my mind just aren't. So like the documentary seems to imply that Andrea could have been some drug lord who took over her fiance's drug trafficking ring when he went to prison. And they even showed in this documentary a clip of a printer that Andrea had owned, just a printer.
01:15:43
Speaker
and there being some fake money and basically implying that Andrea was printing money.
01:15:50
Speaker
and all of these other things. So she was printing counterfeit money on her home computer? Yeah, I mean, these are the implications that are made in this documentary. But even with the money that they show, if you look close, the money is clearly fake. Like even on the investigation discovery footage, you can see like what kind of looks like a dollar bill, but it has these Chinese symbols on it. Did they ever think to stop maybe she was printing play money for her children?
01:16:17
Speaker
Oh, exactly. Yeah, because I mean, this is known as Chinese theater money or play money. So to me, I mean, one piece of money that is, you know, clearly too big of a leap to then try to say that, you know, she's involved in counterfeiting or something like that. And I also feel like if she were involved in drug trafficking, that when she disappeared and her room in her mom's house was searched,
01:16:44
Speaker
There would have been some indication of that. And I think if she was addicted to drugs, there would have been an indication of that noodles or whatever. I would agree with that too. Or her car, you know, and looking in it. But instead all they found was her prescription to Adderall. Hmm.
01:17:02
Speaker
So now that those are over with, I'm gonna step off my soapbox and we can finally talk about some more legitimate theories and I have three of them. One, theory number one is that Andrea left of her own accord. There are those who believe this theory and I think it's true because they think, well, Andrea felt ganged up on by her family and with so many of the bad things that were happening in her life recently that maybe she just wanted to get away.
01:17:33
Speaker
But her family does not believe this theory. I mean, in order for that to be true, she would, one, have to leave her kids, which I don't think that she would do. Right. Two, she would have to leave Aaron, which I obviously do not think would happen. I'm just not sure I buy this theory at all. Yeah. And they kind of give the same reasons. I mean, they say, you know, she would never have left her kids.
01:17:56
Speaker
And again, she's the kind of person who believes in her own ability to adapt and overcome. So it's not as though she would see all of these bad things in her life as completely insurmountable and just want to leave. Like leaving would be the opposite of what Andrea would do.
01:18:14
Speaker
And while she did have friends in the surrounding area around Louisville and in southern Indiana, she had also made plans, remember, to go to the park with her sister in the next couple of days. Right. And so again, why make those plans if you had planned on leaving? Theory number two, and I know this one seems a little bit off the wall, but it's sex trafficking.
01:18:37
Speaker
OK, so there are some people who believe that Andrea was during this walk that night potentially abducted and then sold into sex trafficking. OK, well, I was thinking potentially she could have been abducted. I'm interested to hear why we think sex trafficking. So those who believe this theory, they point out the fact that there's literally no trail of Andrea. That's right. There's nothing. And sex trafficking is unfortunately high in Kentucky and Tennessee.
01:19:06
Speaker
So they're thinking, okay, well, could that have happened to Andrea? But the reason that this becomes a theory is that rumors actually circulated that there was a home in the area where a gang was taking women until they could be sent elsewhere as part of a sex trafficking ring. Could it have been the home where her phone was? Well, again, I don't think that it is, but I don't know. So
01:19:34
Speaker
While it is a possibility, this theory, again, her family feels this theory is unlikely, mostly because Andrea is a fighter. So their thoughts are, you know, if she were taken, that she would have fought and wouldn't have stopped fighting until either she escaped or they had killed her. Right? Like those would be the only two options.
01:19:57
Speaker
But the other element that makes me question this theory isn't the safety of the neighborhood, because let's face it, lots of the cases we've covered have had horrendous crimes happen in supposedly safe towns. But it's actually the quietness of the neighborhood that makes me doubt it.
01:20:14
Speaker
Since Andrea's disappearance, her family have held memorial walks for her from 11 to 3 when they walk back and forth between the two neighborhoods. So the last two locations where we know Andrea had been. And in all of those walks, the one thing that has stood out is the quiet.
01:20:33
Speaker
So had Andrea screamed. Oh, so she would have been heard. Exactly. If she had screamed or fought, then those screams would have carried. And to illustrate, in one of those walks, Erin told me that they only saw two cars the entire time between 11 and 3. And one of the two cars was a police officer. This is PM, like 11 PM and AM. To 3 AM. They saw two cars. And one of the two cars was a police officer.
01:21:03
Speaker
And I still bring this theory up because obviously Andrea could have been incapacitated in some way. Right. Right. Or she could have been picked up after her phone battery died, you know, and willingly have accepted a ride and been driven somewhere.
01:21:20
Speaker
You know, or maybe she had been convinced to go to a more remote location. I mean, there was between the two neighborhoods. Like I said, there's a walkway. There's a golf course with a wooded area on the edge and within the wooded area was
01:21:35
Speaker
this abandoned construction project. It was the beginning of a second condo that was going to be built, but ended up being abandoned. And so her family had thought, well, could she have been taken there, for example? But at least with that theory, the building was ruled out because it was searched and nothing was found. And then theory three is that Erin trusted someone who she shouldn't have and they hurt her. And obviously this theory is twofold.
01:22:05
Speaker
because the person who she trusted could have been a quote-unquote friend, but it could also have been a stranger. Right, because a lot of her friends you said were acquaintances. And recall that, yeah, Andrea's quote-unquote friends were involved in activities around which she may have been exposed to dangers that the average person isn't, right?
01:22:29
Speaker
you know, these friends had taken advantage of Andrea before. So her family actually feels that these new acquaintances, I keep using air quotes around friends, probably have not been questioned thoroughly enough in regards to Andrea's disappearance for what they would like to see.
01:22:49
Speaker
And, you know, this series also linked to the fact that Andrea's ex actually stated, the one who went to prison actually stated that he would be in danger even by talking about Andrea. Oh, and this happened shortly before he died under suspicious circumstances. Oh, so he could have potentially died because he spoke about Andrea on this investigation. Yeah.
01:23:17
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's one potential theory.
01:23:21
Speaker
However, it might have been a stranger because Andrea was so extremely social. It's also possible that she trusted a stranger who she shouldn't have. So her family argues she could have been out walking that evening when she realizes she can't get into her mom's house. Maybe she decides to walk to a friend's or to walk somewhere else. And while she's out walking, she passes near that home where the pings came from or
01:23:50
Speaker
or another home and saw people out in the yard or sitting on the porch or something like that and had stopped to talk or to even hang out with them and then something happened. So Maggie, I know I've given you a lot to think about, but what are your thoughts? I think that obviously the
01:24:16
Speaker
Ludacris theories are just, as you said, Ludacris. I don't think her family was involved. I think my gut is telling me that it's theory three in some shape or form, that she trusted somebody that she shouldn't have or, and not necessarily even that the person she trusted hurt her, but that somebody that person knew hurt her. Like maybe she found out too much or, you know,
01:24:46
Speaker
was helping the wrong person at the wrong time top thing. That's interesting. But I do think somebody hurt her. Sadly, when a family member goes missing, that absence is wearing on the families on so many levels.
Family Advocacy and Public Involvement
01:25:04
Speaker
Cracks in the family dynamic that were already there are widened.
01:25:09
Speaker
But then sometimes you find people like Erin and her father, Michael, who have converted their fear and sadness into advocacy.
01:25:18
Speaker
And even when I mentioned that I understand that sometimes that fight is so all-consuming and that sometimes breaks are necessary for your mental health even when fighting for loved ones, Erin agreed. But she also very astutely stated that sometimes you have to let it consume you or else people move on to the next thing. And that's not something she's willing to let happen to her sister's case.
01:25:43
Speaker
And even Erin's children are able to see the power of that advocacy and the strength and fierce determination. Erin's children actually choose to wear their Finding Andrea shirts to school because they want to do their part. But Erin helps her children and Andrea's sons remember the joy and laughter that Andrea brought as well.
01:26:08
Speaker
Since Andrea would make Facebook lives, Erin and the kids will sometimes sit around and relive memories by listening to her voice, remembering her laughter, and let her smiles bring them smiles as well, just like the power she always had over others to spread joy. They recall the beauty of this world, despite the pain, simply because of Andrea.
01:26:37
Speaker
While I will share links to all of the Andrea Knabel Facebook groups and urge you to join those to do your part. I will also share the link to where you can purchase Finding Andrea shirts. Maggie and I have already ordered ours. I wanted to let you know that there is a $10,000 reward for information in the case that leads to Andrea being located. But I want to end with both a call to action to our listeners and a message to Andrea.
01:27:05
Speaker
in case she's out there listening, both of which will come from Erin. If you would like to help me find my sister, the number one way would be to join Andrea's Angels. That's a volunteer group that dad and I started a few years ago. It's a group chat and messenger. Just send me a message, Erin Knabel, and I'll add you to it.
01:27:26
Speaker
We share missing posts. We use any information that we might have to help find Andrea. For example, we have law enforcement volunteering. We have graphic designers that make missing posters. Really any skill that you have that you feel could help, you're willing to help us brainstorm with ways to find her or ways to raise awareness. Or you could just be a normal person like me that wants to make a difference and
01:27:54
Speaker
and just share what you think. We write podcasts and TV shows to help raise awareness. And anything that you come up with that you think would help raise awareness is welcomed. So there's that. And then we also have a GoFundMe. If you'd like to buy a t-shirt and raise awareness in that way, you can go to bonfire.com and type in Andrea Knaple. I think they're about $25. The proceeds of that goes through the search for Andrea.
01:28:26
Speaker
And then you can find me on any social media. Just type in Aaron Knabel and follow and share missing posts. I have TikTok videos. I have Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. And then as far as the Facebook groups, there's Avery Knabel missing in Louisville, Kentucky case discussion. I also have other groups that I've started to help raise awareness for all missing people. One is
01:28:54
Speaker
Louisville, Kentucky crime news and missing people. I have Southern Indiana crime news and missing people. And then Lexington, Kentucky crime news and missing people. I just did that because it would be easy to make them all the same. So that would be for helping everyone. But yes, anything that you want to do.
01:29:18
Speaker
even if it's just sharing missing posts here and there, it makes a really big difference. That's one thing I think that people don't, it doesn't register. They think this is such a big problem and there's nothing that can be done, but just simply hitting the share button one time, that could be what solves this. And it does solve crimes every day. So please just sharing those missing posts is the simplest thing that you can do, but it really can be the thing that solves
01:29:46
Speaker
this tragedy for us. And if by some chance Andrea were out there and she's listening, what would you say to her? First I'd say I love you and there's nothing you can do to change that. I still live at the same house. I still have the same number. If you
01:30:11
Speaker
you come back or call me, I'll do whatever it takes to make you feel comfortable coming home and we'll help rebuild and get you back on track and things can be great again. Please just come back. If someone's holding you against your will, please be strong and hang in there and I'm doing everything I can and I'll find you.
01:30:33
Speaker
Please don't let her family continue to fight alone. For you, it's as simple as joining a group, sharing a post, telling others about her case. Be one of Andrea's angels because we can all use as many advocates and protectors as we can find.
01:30:52
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:31:22
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
01:31:45
Speaker
It's love notes for Maggie and Allison. Boop, boop. Before the love notes, we have just one more week where we need to take a minute to remind everyone of our giveaway that's open to all of our listeners. So new listeners and those that have been with us from the very beginning. And there are so many of you that have been
01:32:09
Speaker
With us from the very beginning. And you have just four days from the airing of this episode to enter into this giveaway.
01:32:24
Speaker
Yes, and the prize is your choice of an item from our Etsy shop. So remember that there are several ways to earn entries. As proof of your entries, you just need to snap some screenshots and email them to us at coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com.
01:32:42
Speaker
If you have already done any of these ways to earn entries, they still count as long as you can send us a picture for proof on or before March 6th. And listen, that is coming up. Like Maggie said, you have four days from the airing of this episode. So Maggie, do you want to remind them how they can earn those entries?
01:33:04
Speaker
Of course I do. You can number one recommend us on social media and tag at least two friends who you think would enjoy the show and you do that by using the at symbol so above the number two enter in their name and coughing cases podcast so we're made aware
01:33:23
Speaker
You can, number two, write us a five star written review. So not just the five stars, but we also want the written review. We want both. Yes, we do. Number three, you can join our Patreon for this giveaway. You'll get one entry for the $2 level.
01:33:43
Speaker
Two entries for the five, which is now $7 levels. Three entries for the $12 level. Four entries for the $15 level. And five entries if you join at the $20 level. And that link will be in our show notes. And you can finally earn an entry by purchasing something from the Etsy shop. And that link will also be
01:34:08
Speaker
in the show notes. Again, we're giving you the links. We're making it easy. When you email us your proof of entries, please also let us know what item from our Etsy shop you would like to win and if it is clothing, what size. And that's it. We will give you until March 6th to enter. And that is just a couple of days away. And we will announce the winner on our March 9th episode.
01:34:36
Speaker
So now without further ado, we have some sweet love notes going out to Dawn Kent Bethany, who's experienced with ball lightning. We're excited to share with you guys. Oh my gosh, I know.
01:34:51
Speaker
I'm fascinated by bowl lightning anyway. Oh yeah. All of it. And also we want to give a shout out to Marina. Thank you for reaching out to us this past week. And I want to add one that is not on here that I forgot to tell Alison about, but one of Anthony's former coworkers whose name is Craig has listened to us since the very beginning and listens like every week.
01:35:21
Speaker
And Anthony saw him at a conference recently and he was talking to Anthony about the show and all this stuff. And like everybody that would come up and talk to them when they were speaking with each other, he would be like, Anthony's wife co-hosts a true crime podcast called Coffee and Cases. That's amazing. And so I have never officially met Craig, I don't think, but I want to because I want to be his friend. Yes, absolutely.
01:35:48
Speaker
So thank you, Craig. We also want to shout out our new five-star written reviews this week, one of which is from NeonGirl22, who titled her review TheVom.com. And she wrote, quote, I love listening to Maggie and Alison cover cases. Most recently, they covered the Tiffany Valiente case. This happened the next town over from me, and it really shook and continues to shake the community.
Community Engagement and Listener Interaction
01:36:17
Speaker
Thank you for bringing light to these cold cases every week." And you are so welcome. And thank you for those kind words. I think you're the bomb.com. Yeah, you are the bomb.com. That makes me happy. Yes. We also got a five star review from Sholar88 who wrote, quote, I clean all day long. I wish I could say the same, but I cannot. But
01:36:45
Speaker
They said I clean all day long. I have to find something to listen to six seven eight hours a day I love hearing cases these girls cover. I'm glad I simple across their podcast keep pushing out the content gals Love that me too. I know and with that sleuth hounds go enter the giveaway Now yes, and remember that all of our love is going out to each and every one of you until next week sleuth hounds